World Cup curse of crashing Kiwis
Get used to it New Zealand. Come October there will be another heartache semi-final exit as yet another of New Zealand’s national teams implodes.
The Black Caps were smashed in their last three matches at the Cricket World Cup and the manner of defeat against Sri Lanka reminded me so much of the All Blacks last two rugby semi-final exits.
The Black Caps couldn’t cope with the pressure of the occasion. Their fielding was ordinary, their bowling indifferent and their batting exposed as brittle. The New Zealand batting, so powerful in the early part of the tournament, folded with the weight of expectation. It surely is a sign of things to come with the All Blacks.
Cape Town, in 2005, and Rustenburg, in 2006, were evidence enough to know that the All Blacks are more than capable of that one horror match a year. And to lose the World Cup all they need to do is be true to form and produce that shocking 80 minutes against the Springboks.
Already their management are talking up the brutality of the Springboks. Already there is doubt within the All Blacks camp. Influential members of the All Blacks keep on reminding the public that victory at this year’s World Cup is not a done deal and that South Africa, in particular, pose a real threat.
It is as if they are preparing their public for the worst and the Springboks in Jake White’s squad know the only team the All Blacks fear physically are the boys in green. There is a disregard in New Zealand for the challenge of England, Wales and even Ireland. The New Zealanders simply believe they can’t lose to those players. There is a respect for Australia and France, only because the two have done New Zealand in the World Cup at the last two semi-final appearances.
But there is genuine fear that the Springboks will be physically too potent in a one-off situation. And it is a fear the Boks can already smell.
It is interesting how many of the current Bok squad have privately noted how much respect the Boks are being given in New Zealand. As some have said, it is as if New Zealand are already talking themselves into defeat.
White has the squad to beat the All Blacks, but his job will be all that easier if the All Blacks have already beaten themselves before kick-off.
I loved watching the Black Caps getting smashed. A World Cup semi-final implosion. Get used to it New Zealanders. This one is minor to what’s coming in October in Paris.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
Love it Keo…. STIR THAT POT!
Here’s hoping you’re right!
April 25th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
Dragons
April 25th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Tempting fate, are you?
April 25th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Go Keo, Go Keo, Go Keo!!!!
April 25th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
The Proteas suffered a serious blow hours before squaring up against Australia for the World Cup semi-final on Wednesday as fast bowler Andre Nel injured a finger.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
ouch!!
April 25th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
Bwahahahah!!!
Lekker man lekker!!!!
Go Bokke!!!
April 25th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
Keo’s best article yet!!!!
What we [the BOKS] have to do is smash England, Samoa and Australia in South Africa and beat the All Blacks here. Then send a competitive yet second string team on the away leg of the 3N’s.
Keep the players who they respect and are a little afraid of for the WC in France.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
My heart agrees with you Keo but that last bit make me rather nervous. Unfortunately we also lost to them in this world cup! That aside , I hope this article is a premonition for things to come.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
Nou doen daai klomp moffies wat jou ban as jy se poepol op silver fern die volgend:
Some kiwi will take this article and post it there saying: SA journo bashes kiwis….Maaaaa!!!, hulle spot met my!!!
April 25th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
Oh Tackles! Tackles! Where are you…
April 25th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
What’s happening in October ?
April 25th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
Keo .. the difference is that the black caps have never been close to the best at cricket in the world, it is no surprise that Sri Lanka won, they are a better team, and a good bet to win in the final.
The AB on the other hand are power, I would not write them off to soon, they are to good not to win the wc again soon .. what happens if they have that once a year bad game against the boks in the 3N and not at the wc.
That said, I think they will be very nervous to face the boks at the wc .. I’m glad that the respect for the boks is back in NZ.
SA has the players to win the wc, the question is, will they be abel to do it dispite joke white, barney smit and the useless assistant coaches holding them down.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
I have got a copy of that fabulous game in RWC99 when the french smashed the all blacks. The French should have had another try before half time, wilson had grounded the ball before his own line and was awarded a 22 drop out instead of the french getting a try, of which a french player grounded the ball after wilson had grounded it. But there is another brilliant french try against the all blacks on youtube.com. The french ran the ball from their own backline, i think Sella was involved there. So yes they need to be re-running that RWC99 semi final on french tv for the entire duration of the world cup, morning, noon and night. After that semi final defeat there was councelling hot lines in new zealand to help the supporters, how pathetic
April 25th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
Hehehehe – good one Keo!
I loved the look on Flemming’s face! Hope we can get Richie to do a Flemming come WC…
I have to admit though, I like Richie a LOT more than Flemming!
Oh, and I read on another site that Flemming has ‘hung up the ol’ boots’…
April 25th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
5 semi-final exits for the Black Caps … number four coming for the All Blacks
April 25th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
I have always said:
“Four more year”
April 25th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
“Years” even
April 25th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Amen, this is your best article ever Keo!
April 25th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
#13 on your ending, can you just give me a solution on how you will ensure that we win the world cup. you seem to have a problem with Jake, John and the assistances. Who would you rather put in there. Be realistic when you answer this!
April 25th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
LOL Keo, lets not jump the gun now..Graham Henry is a very smart man.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
In your dreams Keo.
we heard last week all about how the baby boks were too big and brutal for the under 19 all Blacks.
Ha ha, what a joke, the got given a hiding by a TEAM playing real rugby, big and brutal just couldn’t keep up!
I can’t believe that you, Keo, haven’t moved on from that dumb old ‘bigger is always better’ mantra.
It was really tired 10 years ago, and it doesn’t get any more effective by repeating it ad infinitum.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
Keo, one would assume that you are patriotic but I think you are really busy amusing yourself.
South africa in my opinion and in particular opinion makers like you need to start thinking realistically and with some humility. Evidence before us shows us that as South Africa we cannot really shout that we are physically stronger than NZealanders. Correctly we can say we can compete with them but records show that over the past 5 years NZealanders have won ore than we have.
I think the fact that NZealanders see us and talk openly that SA can be a threat shows that these people are thinkers and are already protecting their teams by directing pressure to SA.
NZealanders yesterday lost to a better team and we must give credit to Sri Lanka bcause they played better and used their resources better.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
Geez you guys are a sad bunch. It seems you feel better about your own worth when the standard setters experience misfortune. If you are actually happy that sa can scrape a win against the all blacks in one off clashes, then you are a bunch of losers. Well done to nz for dominating rugby at the moment. Just like we did prior to isolation. If we are too **** now-due to political interference in sport- to challenge the all blacks for out and out supremacy then it is petty to take some absurd sense of gratification from seeing them fail due to obscure psychological issues. You’re a bunch of wannabe’s. If we cant rule the rugby world, i’d rather have it be our worthy rivals the all blacks, than the upstart aussies or english…
April 25th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
Who want’s to bet that Tackler is going to say that he was supporting to Ozmob all along and that the Black Craps did not choke. Any takers?
April 25th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Stirring… Where are our NZ friends? KEO how can you compare NZ Cricket to Rugby???????????
April 25th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
16mm very sharp, don’t know how you picked up on that, was trying to be suttel about it
lets see .. what we I do .. firstly joke white sould have been fired at the end of last years 3N, but he was not, so know it will be more difficult to win the wc.
Now what .. pray pray and then pray some more ..
Hope like hell Rassie can make a possitive contribution and get joke white to see past his obsession with size, caps, one gameplan and rush defence.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
The AB’s may not even make it to the WRC semis. Their pool includes the likes of Scotland, Italy, Romania and Portugal. They will have to face either France, Ireland or Argentina in the quarter finals. IMO the rusty Blacks will have had a month of easy matches, ready to face a team that has had some serious game time.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
There Cricket might be up to **** , but there rugby is the best in the world.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
#8 Totally agree with you.
I bet you the AB’s shrink has been working on their mental health-the Captain Morgan has worn off and they are experiencing some DT’s (shakes and sweat)about their inability to skae the Choker tag
The AB’s on a neutral ground against SA are pretty normal and even another 20 week conditioning camp will ot clear their heads
April 25th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
Tacitus, your post #24 holds no merit.
If we beat the AB’s in a one off match, becuase of their perceived psychological issues and we go on to win the WC… surely we are then the best team in the world?
Arent we then dominant? The fact remains, arrogant NZ aside, the winner of the cup will have to beat a few other nations… it is no fault of ours that the world cup is made up entirely of one off games. Dont blame the format.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
If you beat the “Standard setters” arent you then setting new standards?
April 25th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
#24 STOP TALKING RUBBISH! Transformation is not the only reason we’ve had problems with our rugby. We have lost to the AB’s with all white teams before ,so just stop your siliness.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
16 inch…
thats it, rip post 24 apart. Rubbish like that deserves it.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
only thing i love more is the ausies getting smashed!
April 25th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
#26 On Rassies i would agree but you must admit that we did not utilise rush defense that much last year. He is therefore making alterations to the game. on the issue of size, I hope you watched the under 19’s! On the Praying part, you should have started praying last year!
April 25th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
Ja Tac,
Habana and Steenkamp really are f*cking up your beloved Bulls
April 25th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
meant #27
April 25th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Green
Then turn on the tellie at 3:30 today…
April 25th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
#34 Uh, 16inch actually confirms in his post that transformation is one of the reasons…
April 25th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
nowadays you can tell when an article like this is coming. i don’t see any facts. where is the quote from AB management about SA and where is the quote from the bok players re the AB’s.
all the same it’s inventive of keo to come up with this piece.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
Bert, Tac maintains in his post (unless he explained it elsewhere) that politics are the only issue.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
#36 .. I’ve been praying ever since 2005.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
The Black Caps losing in the semi finals is no surprise. They were never #1 favourites.
The Black Caps have only lost to 2 teams in this CWC. Australia and Sri Lanka. And in each loss they were hammered.
It wasn’t only in the semis they were hammered, but they were crushed in the super 8 stage too.
I don’t understand why the All Blacks now would need shrinks? How many current All Blacks were in the 1999 RWC losing side?
I thought they’d have good memories of France, considering their recent visits over there.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
Post #24
And lets not forget that its due to politics that our coaches (white, black, red, yellow and green) are less skilled than their Australasian counterparts
April 25th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
TigerShark: oh, well, politics is def. a reason, but not the only reason.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
What’s with the head Monarch?
Wants to paint it black !!!!!!
April 25th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Tiger and 16inch: wcup is a farce. Beating the all blacks once and then losing to them 5 times after that means they are dominating, not us. And re habana and gurthro. That is not the issue. The best players in sa should always be picked, as in their case. The difference is that pre isolation parliament, the cabinet, the army you name it came to a standstill when the boks played. Back then, the entire country was geared towards making the boks win. With such honour and pride at stake, how could we lose. Today, we scrape the odd win DESPITE the inept and largely indifferent efforts of the powers that be, not BECAUSE of them…
April 25th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
48#
For once I agree with u on one point. Look at England. World Champs but NOBODY respects their rugby.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:25 pm
“four more years”
all time classic
kudos to Gregan,I’m sure if the ABs beat the Aussies in the final, there be players lining up in Gregans face.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
#49 .. agreed.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
Tacticus the Bulls winning the S14 or SA winning wc? Which one would you rather have. Probably a rhetorical question…
April 25th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
Correct me if I am wrong but how over the past 5 World Cricket Cups including this one, SA have been in only 3 of those semi- finals and have never reached a final – yet let’s hope that is about to change
So why are we bagging the Kiwis about crashing in semi’s?
April 25th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
Keo, difference is the only two defeats were on SA soil. When SA can beat NZ away from home, we’ll chat again.
You only need to look at the end of year tours to know NZ can perform in the northern hemisphere better than any other southern hemisphere team. Then again, probably better than any northern hemisphere team too.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
49# Katvis
Ek stem, ook saam met Tact se siening.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Wendz
The head Monarch is bored and wants some entertainment from his obliging subjects!
April 25th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
LOVE IT, LOVE IT, LOVE IT !!!
Although my preference for teams taking a beating are (in this order):
Poms
Aussies
All Blacks
April 25th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
Bagel. That would not even be a toss up. Bulls over boks, 365 days a year…too many losers i dont like in the other teams. John smit, bob skinstad, bolla conradie and butch james to name just a few…Not to mention some of their supporters…
April 25th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
#56,
keo knows by now which buttons to press to get X amount of replies. and it’s ironic that the fewer facts in his “fishing” articles, the more posts it generates.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
More like most of Province supporters
April 25th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
we’ve only ever played them once on neutral ground in northern hemisphere
22-18 to BOKS … history is with us!
April 25th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Yep, Paulse scoring a beautiful solo try
April 25th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
once again, a once-off win!
Will you be writing the SA obituary after the world cup Keo?
April 25th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
Didnt keo also predict that the pommies were going to knock the proteas outa the cricket world cup with kevin pietersen being the star well he scored 3 and the only thing knocked was english pride. Im pretty concerned now with keo’s prediction that prob it for the boks wc chances
April 25th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Keo. You sober?
April 25th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
why don’t we rather accept that NZ are and have been the dominant force in world rugby since SA’s ejection from int. sport and now also since SA’s readmission. let’s look at the bigger picture. how do we get onto that level in the medium to long term. once off victories with victor matfield concussing byron kelleher in the 3rd minure count for nothing. same applies with rodney so’oialo making a silly intercept try pass, and blocking a defender just before his team scored.
i’m calling for perspective.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
Too true, Keo, too true. They’ve been the best team at the last three WC, and won none of them!
April 25th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
I agree the Kiwi’s are beatable away from home – just no ones managed to do it for a few years except you lot.
But … re mental scares, I was surprised to compare their likely forward pack to the 03 RWC semi forwards and find that McCaw, Collins, Jack, Kevin, Rueben Thorne, Somerville and Williams all were on the losing side that night. Not to mention McDonald, Mills, Mauger and Rocko in the backs – so thats a fair bit of RWC semi choking experience – 11 out of 15 – they are carrying in their best 15!
April 25th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Its all good and well, and i love this article, but what happens if we lose to Aus today?
Then our choker tag is back and the kiwis and aussies will use that as refernce to the boks.
lets not get ahead of ourselves, if we open our mouths too soon we could find our feet in it.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Good funny stirring article by the way.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:53 pm
Keo,
NZ has respect for Aus my ***!!!
… you only got one thing right in that article and that is that the Boks smell
So much anger … it must really hurt to lose
April 25th, 2007 at 1:53 pm
48 – the poms were the best in the world from the last half of 2001 until 2003. They beat everybody
April 25th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
The Boks smell?
April 25th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
#68,
we didn’t beat the AB’s the past three years. we weren’t a better team on each occasion.
2004: a team in transition. a lot of the AB’s who featured or were on tour that day at Ellis Park were playing their last test. spencer, meeuws (?), rush, mehrtens and a few others.
2005: some of the AB’s hadn’t played for a fair while and thus were rusty. add travel to that. plus victor matfield took out byron kelleher in the opening minutes.
2006: rodney so’oialo gifts SA with an intercept, causes a try to be disallowed when he blocks an sA defender just b4 the AB’s score and also gives away a key converted penalty.
Make up your own mind.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
72. ya they beat everybody…. including their wives
April 25th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
#48 What hogwash!!! Just listen to yourself! You are seriously one of those that believe the past was great. (maybe for you but not for the rest of us man!) Thank god we are not going back to the past!
What honour are you talking about ? That you percieved yourself as a superior race over others? If that’s honour then I would rather back side that looses all the time!
The same attention that was given to rugby could still be archieved if it could be more representative. If this continues, kiss those times goodbye forever!
Bye the way ,has it not occured to you that the Boks were already left behind because post isolation period , we were never really that strong. Yes we won the world cup but cracks were already starting to show in our systems. That was even before transformation came into play. We are talking about a team that is not even fielding 20% of players of colour and you continue to complain about transformation. Please! Who are you fooling?
As I have said it previously , the fact that our players handling skills were atrocious (it’s not black players I’m talking about), could not off load in a tackle, etc. Can you blame transformation for this? Bye the way these are reasons why we loose matches. If these deficiencies only occur to black players then i may agree. But you all know that is not true! As I have said before , stop this siliness!
April 25th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
Sa’s sporting decline is also greatly influenced by the 1 million emigrants over the last 10 years from the rugby/cricket playing demographic group. Just like was the case -only to a far greater extent- in zimbabwe. They lost, what, 80% of that demographic group and their sport is 80% weaker. We lost 20% of the corresponding demographic group, and the boks are 20% weaker. How many pierre spies’s, graeme pollock’s or carel du plessis’s have we lost because of that?
April 25th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Tac,
Not many because then they would have made it big in their newly adopted country.
And oh yes, mentioning Pierre Spies in the same breath as the other two is rather funny.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
I sense a brawl.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Actually its boredom
April 25th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Tacticus wat is wrong with the Boks supporters? The Bulls fans have an awesome record and are loved by overseas nations… Also why do you hate all the English players??? What is your problem with them. Bobby, Butch and John and you hate them all. You obviously know the game very well probably more than most, but you are blind, bias and if English South Africans are a race, racist… I will never take you seriously.
Sad
April 25th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Now just imagine if SARU actually tries to grow the game and get a miniscule 5 million of the 42 million non-whites to play the game.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
I don’t mind a bit of fun but there is no need for these ‘respect for Australia’ comments
April 25th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
bagel, i will have you marmite and cheese before my first cup of coffee. all english in SA are only here because we let them.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
83, could agree to that everyday. **** them
April 25th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
…ig
April 25th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
…ig (gy) gonna pop
April 25th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Bah, 16 Inch dong, that debate is long and i just dont have the gum to stay here that long.
But yes, transformation is something that needs to happen. Just not the way the government wants it to.
They should take the onus on themselves to scout and breed a talent pool. But no, its allot easier to claim the fortunes of the few who make it and pat themselves on hte back. Oh, please.
Government, put our money where your mouth is.
Get out there and develop the game, find the talent, nurture it, arrange more training camps and leagues amongst youths, do something but dont sit on your high horse and blame the white man for the lack of ethniticity in our national team.
I believe there are allot of black players coming through the ranks, now more than ever, be patient, within 5 years i can see a 50% white and 50% black team. sorry indians, then all we need is for indians to complain that they are not represented, and you will start to understand the frustrations of today.
Patience people, we all want the best team out there, regardless of ***** size.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
SA rock
April 25th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
Yes, it would be fun to watch NZ implode again (not to mention how it would shut the Tackler up for the next four years!), BUT lets not get ahead of ourselves. The Kiwis are squared up for a great Worldcup, and talking us up is not going to do it alone. A lot of fine coaching, team selection, vision, strategy as well as plain luck are required ahead and dreaming about knocking NZ out is very different than actually doing it!
April 25th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
#77 Man Please! How many could be gained if the boys playing these sports at under 19 level could be managed properly? we could easily double that and I cam assure you, we will! Wait and see!
Anyway its normally that as the sorciety normalises we’ll find people who will be threatened to change. You can either deal with the change or leave, as simple as that! The way you complain you can honestly believe that all whites have been excluded from these teams. These teams are 80 -85 % white! Thats about only 15% improvement with govt. intervention! I guess looking at this stat , if it were by you there would be not players of colour. Let me say this further, Stop the silliness!
April 25th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
4 more years chch
April 25th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Lost you there Shooter. Who is we btw?
April 25th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
92 Clyde Wombat,
in 4 more years we will be watching Sri Lanka beat Aus in rugby
4 more years Clyde
April 25th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
Tac, post 77
If our sport is in trouble because of the alleged 1 mill expats is’nt that all the more reason to open the sport up to a larger demographic?
By the way, the single largest number of permanent immigrants out of SA in one calendar year is 27 000.
Also, before you get all worked up on immigration you need to realise one thing. Countries that are willing to accept immigrants are, in this day and age, looking at the top 2% of all applicants. They are not exactly going to take **** are they?
So how do we justify 1 million departures? Dont fool yourself Whites from the old Apartheid era arent the brightest population group on the planet despite NP propaganda.
One last thing, in one of your other posts… in the old days the whole nation did NOT come to a stop when the boks played… only the white part of the Nation.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
Keo i hope that this is the case being patriotic and all.However the fact that the All Blacks do so well is that they are great thinkers,adapt to situations and conditions and respect the opposition like our beloved Boks.White should not mouth off or boast about fielding the “heaviest packs” ever etc,etc. Just remain humble and get on with game plans.Also they need to use the “rush” defence and “drifting defence” at different times in the game.The All Blacks get rattled at times when you confront them and close them down.This should be exploited wisely.Just ask Rodney Soialo !However the All Blacks do have the skill factor which we on the other hand suffer with at times.Ever noticed how many good try scoring opportunities go astray due to forward passes,dropped balls,fumbles etc or running the wrong lines in the Super 14 by our teams.We need players with big match temperament and skill.The physical side we will ALWAYS possess,we just need the right players with skill,can do the basics correctly and play with their heart`s and think while out there
April 25th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
SA by 27 runs or 2 wickets…. MVP: Gibbs.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
Post #88,
It is SARU not Government’s mandate to manage the inner workings of rugby. Government is just there to oversee SARU’s deliverables – performance, social development (transformation amongst others), etc.
It is SARU’s (not government) responsiblity to grow and evelop the game in order to achieve it’s social development objectives.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
Everyone assumes that transformation “must” take place. Bull!! Why exactly people? If the USA track and field team must “transform” to reflect the demographics of America, just over 70% must be white, while we all know that African-Americans are by far the better athletes.
This is a recipe for mediocrity.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
oh and greetings manne !
April 25th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
#88 You would be suprised that I agree with some of the things you say. I agree that the Govt need to put more money in sport because it has the unifying factor and it’s the best way to market a country (look at the Aussies, and Kenyans in long distance running). Who blamed the white man for everything? (even they are responsible for most!) I was responding to a statement that was made. Get your factrs right!
April 25th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Keo.
There is a chance for everything to happen in the WC.
The chance of the AB to exit the WC in the semis when playing the boks would be IMO 80%.Thus your article is based on that 20% or less.
The chance for for Namibia to win the WC would be 0.0001 %.If bafana bafana played they would also have a chance but much less that Namibia.
You see, there is a chance for everybody.
Keep the hopes up for the 20%.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
91. The silliness is that you believe there are enough black players to make up all the teams.
Would you rather win the WC with 10 White, 4 black and 1 colored or lose it dreadfully with 10 black, 4 white and one colored?
If you choose the latter, your drivel is pure racism based on what you believe the white man (who’s era may i add died off already)owes you some form of retribution for the sins committed in the 60’s, before most of us were born,
If you want to argue such a hard topic, at least do it with an understanding of both parties views,
anyways, like i said earlier, we all want transformation, but we dont want it to cost our national team a WC, maybe after the WC we can start to include lesser players of colour with the hope that they will grow from experience for the next.
But to declare that now suddenly, in WC year players who dont have hte skills and experience needed, need to be put into the team. Come on… as you said earlier, stop the silliness.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Sharkbait (#57),
Yes, I agree! Beating the Poms still tops them all. Maybe it provides a feeling of payback for the Boer War, maybe it is just the English arrogance – I do not know.
Every once in a while, I pull the 99WC semifinal video out (Jannie de Beer’s 5 drops) – just to listen to the pain of the Pom commentators during the match. At the start of the match, it seemed that they (the Poms) thought it would just have been a routine disposal of SA for England on the road to the final!
April 25th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
98. i see
April 25th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
Tac, we can easily afford to lose a few hundred thousand to permanent immigration, unlike nations like Aus and NZ, because we have huge capital as far as human resources goes.
You forget if 1 mill, as you allege, leave the country there are still 40 odd million waiting to step into their shoes. Basically, if your figures are true then we have only seen 1% of the population immigrate.
Which in the long term is a negligible amount. Sure in the short term it might hold back development for a while, but it is not a major crises.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
Jake White, jy is darem maar oral op die web!
April 25th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
YES Tjorts beating the POMS really goes down well !
April 25th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
103
sins committed from 1652-1994.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
#75 lol respect..
April 25th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Crusaders are transforming games into trophies …. what is SAs transformation plan?
April 25th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Now this is exactly what I have been waiting for the last couple of years. Positive embracing Springbok rugby, to slaughter the Kiwis and triumph as world cup champions. Go Bokke. I will donate a couple of body parts to go to the world cup tour and watch the Boks.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
TigerShark, guys, let’s leave politics aside and focus on sport? Ag pleez!
April 25th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
95 Tiger Shark,
At a max of 27,000 per year over 10 years ….. that means the other 3/4 million must have fallen down the stairs
April 25th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Like I said earlier, SARU are sitting on an ENORMOUS resource pool which it chooses to overlook for primarily “ideological” reasons. Mine the black gold you fools – we’ll annihilate all before us.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
#99 No , Bull is what you are talking ! What we want is for opportunities to be availed to everyone . The American Track team is a poor example because it never became that way because white sprinters were barred from the sport(do’nt even make an example of soccer because not white person was ever barred from playing it!). This was the case in SA. To show that things are changing look at rugby at school level. There is a lot of young talent coming through! Also to show that we are turning the corner, i wich you could see the number of Black young boys registering with the Natal Academy. The reason we have such a situation is because of the Sephakas, Bobos, Jantjies, etc. who have made them realise that rugby can be a black mans sport. In that way transformation has worked!
April 25th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
YES GO PROTEAS,bliksem them !
April 25th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
I did not pick up the whole conversation regarding the impact of expats leaving the country, but the macro and micro economic influence due to these immigrations is immense.
There are various factors in South Africa contributing to the worsening economic situation.
1. Unemployment
2. Inflation
3. Lack of higher education
etc, so regarding the imigrants leaving and having no impact, please check your facts before making comments about ex pats having no influence on the economy.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Keo
The 20% raises to 30% if you can manage an intercept try.
Another 5% if you can get rid of Dan Carter in the early stages of the game.
Feed this information to Jake White so he can start planning.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
Who mentioned economics?
April 25th, 2007 at 2:36 pm
120 Milten Freeman
April 25th, 2007 at 2:36 pm
#103 That’s the problem with you, you think these things only happened in the 60’s. Go learn you history and stop insulting yourself! I will not even get into that one!
retributions- what’s that about? Do’nt be stupid!
What do you mean by lesser players?
April 25th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
106 TigerShark
April 25th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Bertus, why the concern about Transformation.
All human capital is equally capable. There is no way you can maintain that a team will be mediocre with transformation, in fact the opposite is true.. use your own analogy as proof.
In the US the NBA and NFL is dominated by black Americans because they are better. What’s more they don’t have as large a legacy of white only sport.
And that is in fact the answer to your question, why must we transform? Because we made it a law that sport was white only. You reap what you sow.
Surely the time has arrived to stop bitching about a process that white people actually implemented and start making sure that the PDP’s coming into the game are of NFL type quality.
World dominance of Rugby that Tac talks so fondly about will occur when we harness our black population. They are more than a match, athletically, than any islander and with the huge amount of black human capital at our finger tips in SA as well as in the rest of Africa it is only a matter of time before we dominate rugby for the foreseeable future.
The sooner we implement transformation the sooner we will dominate.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
16mm black,Sephaka should NEVER have been a BOK ! This is NOT a racist remark,FACT IS he would not cut it in New Zealand at the highest level.He would be an average to weak front rower at best.Now the “BEAST ” and “Mujati” they have the grit and determination and strength to do well in the future,they are learning and young BUT MILES AHEAD of any performance SEPHAKA has delivered !
April 25th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
When you lost two out of three tests by absolute miles and win the third — the dead rubber third one — by only one point, you don’t have any REAL bragging rights over the All Blacks.
When you haven’t beaten the Boks away from SA anywhere anytime this century yet. Your brag rings even hollower.
When the Bok coach lost more tests in just one single year (2006) than what Graham Henry has lost ever since he got the AB job…
We clearly have great talkers of the talk but terrible crawlers of the crawl, let alone walkers of the walk! After all, the Boks couldn’t even progress to the RWC semifinals last time out, having been dumped out 29-9 in their quarterfinal!
Naah… wishful thinking, Keo. Just wishful thinking.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Reading further into the above discussion, 122, get you facts right and stop being a bloody racist.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Keo
Look at the following senario.
The Boks to be beaten by the Poms and to be sent home by the AB`s in the quarters.
Now that is a real possibility and not a wet dream like yours.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Respect Keo. “a good journalist doesnt let the truth interfere with a good story”
April 25th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
WP,
Neither should Lance Sherrel. So now lets get back to the broader, high level issues.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
124 South African rugby will be better off once all the whites have left
April 25th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
The Perfect Evening as desribed by a typical South African Male….
1. You are getting head from your ex sitting in a lazy boy while your Current is serving you beers and boeries and all this while the boks are beating the All Blacks on your 46″ Plasma.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
#114 with those stats the white man must be an extinct creature in SA. What about the one’s coming back? Let’s stop beoing too resourceful with the truth abs stats!
April 25th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
#116 Read my lips: quota. Transformation “must’ take place. In order to reflect transformation, certain quotas must be introduced. When will the ANC be satisfied? Blacks comprise 80%(?),so must Springboks be 80% black? Politics: bah!
Next it will be jukskei that has to be “transformed”.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Chch,
Go stir your toilet pot with that sarcasm. Don’t get emotional, try to dicuss rationally.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Naas
Last time I heard the economy was growing, not declining. Where are you, on Mars?
The reason why the expat issue has become, well an issue, is because the economy has grown and now in the short term the skills the expats have taken with them are needed to make the economy grow even more. But in the long term it wont make much of a difference.
Take a quick look at the historical perspective… Ireland and England, Italy etc have given millions of people up to immigration. Hence the existence of the US and Aus and even SA. Yet where is the long term negative effect on these nations in losing this human capital?
April 25th, 2007 at 2:44 pm
132 Jake_White,
Lucky you videoed those old games
April 25th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
#124 AMEN! where does this person com from! You have my respect!
April 25th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
Bertus,
The ANC will (rightfully) be satisfied once it is clear and apparent that an honest and meaningful committment towards transformation is being made
April 25th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
Kiwis are going to crash at RWC’07. I feel it in my ****, they are going to spend this year wondering if they peaked too soon. One or two injuries will also add to the doubt.
I disagree with Keo though. I think the Kiwis will be more prone to lose against another team than SA. All other teams lift their game for a clash with the AB’s. The kiwis only lift their game for the Boks. I’d put money on one of Ireland, Aus or even England beating the Kiwis at RWC
April 25th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
SAFFA i agree or Gaffie Du Toit for that matter,TOO many Bok jerseys were handed out in times of panic,by incompetent selectors or those striving to be politically correct !
April 25th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
#127 What was racist with that statement? Explain!
April 25th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
135 saffa_guy,
What part of that sounded emotional???
I am trying to read but in a meeting so hard to keep up.
I just think that you could increase the number of weekly flights to Perth and speed up the transformation process
April 25th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
#131 Do’nt be a cry baby now!
April 25th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
Snorrrrr
April 25th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
16 inch black will be chanting “One Settler One Bullet” shortly.
Fuc%##%ing politics, let’s talk sport dammit!
April 25th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
#142 If the Kiwis were forced to pick 2 white players, they’d be nowhere as good as they are now.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
#134 he! he! he !
April 25th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Bertus, are you a racist? Why you so defensive?
April 25th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Saffa_Guy
It is good discussion here but the thread was intended as a joke by Keo
no stress
April 25th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
I KNEW IT. CHCH wants us all to emigrate to NZ! So they can harness our rugby talents.
What? finished plundering the islands rugby talents?
So how good is your medical facilities
April 25th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
136 TigerShark: If you read what I said you would see that I agree with your statement, but if we talk about the economy growth, initially your statement would be correct, but integrate HIV/Aids, Gini coefficient (One of the highest in the world, and relate it back to growth and inflation and then tell me that all is good.
Back to Rugby, I would love to see SA win the CWC and RWC.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
A KIRBY is a good vacuum cleaner
April 25th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
Nothing sux like ElectroLux
April 25th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
151 Exactly Erfplaas. We breed they utilise the Rugby talents.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
or my ex girlfriend LOL
April 25th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
#146.. You’de be suprised mate, I’m sooo not that way! I think you’ve gotten used to chatting to people that agree with this drivel in this blog. I love white people. I also have white friends , you !know
April 25th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Actually we had this girl at school with the nickname ElectroLux. good times
April 25th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
139 Saffa Guy… spot on.
Preventing transformation has to be the most stupid thing I have ever heard.
The rest of the world is looking for new markets to sell products and “grow their brands” and we in a rugby sense want to exclude new markets, make our brands smaller, earn less money and prevent ourselves from finding any potential superstars that might exist in the greater population.
Are we in fact saying that white players need to be protected from transformation as we are afraid that they wont be able to compete in an open market?
April 25th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
147 Carla,
What is a ‘white’ exactly? Pakeha is not a race
April 25th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
Only SA and Aus can still make it a double this year.
I think for a while Aus were both cricket and WC holders, right?
France had a chance of doing the double after they won the SoccerWC, but then fluffed it against the Aussies in the final.
Has any other country ever held 2 of the Big Three?
April 25th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
CarlyJane,
My dear, I’m attacking, not defending.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
#152 . Show me a place in the world where all is good? Lets not put unreasonably high expactations.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
Erfplaas because she was good at domestic chores ?
April 25th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
151 Erfplaas,
Please join the Tackler exchange program
April 25th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
Some the glass as half full, some see it as half empty and others as half empty & leaking like a sieve
April 25th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
#160 C’Jane is still caught in her own racist past, she has these “freudian slips” all to frequently, that’s why she’s projecting her own racism on to me.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Oops, missed the word “see the glass”
April 25th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
158 The brand doesn’t matter as long as it’s a “wet ‘n dry”
April 25th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Cheers people! Saffa Guy and Tigershark, RespeK! with a capital letter K. I like your level headedness! as for everyone Cheers and hope SA wins!
April 25th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
#164 She was the best or so Ive heard
#165 Mkay But i need my daily dosis of crime. Nothing gets the the adrenaline flowing like a bit of crime early in the morning. Ive saved lots and lots for not having to drink coffee.
April 25th, 2007 at 3:01 pm
So South African rugby has the following issues..
- transformation
- money
- coaching
- emmigration
- AIDs
- deforestation
April 25th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
16,
Cheers! Enjoy
April 25th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
Never took Tac for a racist just thought he was pro Bulls but today I change my mind.
April 25th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
chch
A character defining statement there mate. You sound like an ex pat.
April 25th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
chch wished he had some brute saffa expat blood in him
April 25th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
And I thought this was a cricket thread….
April 25th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
Hello wpf!
April 25th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
176 Erfplaas,
i thought i listed AIDS
April 25th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
SA won the toss and elected to bat….. Dis nou of nooit!!
April 25th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
I have to go now. Always interesting to read the great South African debates. I can not really contribute (as you can tell)
Erfplaas, I am an expat … just not a saffa expat
Good luck to you all in the Cricket (happy Vitamins?) …. beat those Aussies
April 25th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Cheers chch
Catch you later.
April 25th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
LOL! In that case the world would be a better place if you had some
April 25th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
HOYAAAAAAAAA keo wit a pyp!!!!!spot on mate
April 25th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
161. Big Three? Doing the double? Don’t fool yourself. Every sporting event these days claim they are the biggest. Sure, the CWC and the RWC is the pinnacle of their respective sports, but let’s be honest, 95% in South or North America or Asia don’t know that the Cricket World cup is in progress. These two events have so many meaningless qualifying games, its only the semis and finals that makes any real sense. Big deal.
The Americans believe the Super bowl is the biggest event (100 million people watch it), but its boring and totally uninspiring due to the constant commercial breaks. In Europe some believe nothing is bigger than the Tour de France. There are only two big events: FIFA Soccer world cup and the Olympics Track and field.
Tennis may be the 3rd biggest event. I bet you more people in the world can tell you who the current Wimbledom mens champion is than tell you who the Cricket or the rugby world champions are.
April 25th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Lol, surely you Saffas dont believe this bullshit?
April 25th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
186. You have to agree anything is possible. There is a lot of sunshine in SA, but so little brightness. So anything that shines, like the Webb Ellis trophy, is a big hope and dreams are free.
April 25th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Well, Cricket is not rugby.
April 25th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
Soccer world cup is the best tournament of all because one of 16 teams could win it.
Not like the RWC where it is australia and the other competitors such as england, NZ and SA.
April 25th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
We are fucked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 25th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
That could be an understatement.
April 25th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
Does anyone hear that sound….
it’s the sound of South African cricketers choking at the sight of Australia in a cricket semi final…
If you make 100 at this rate you’ll be doing well!
Keo, if yesterdays performance by the Black Caps is a pre-cursor to what is to befall the All Blacks in October, what does today’s performance tell us about te Boks chances?
You wade in a tad bit early, no?
April 25th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Well done Keo. You succsessfully perpetuate the impression that South Africans are arrogant and generally shoot their mouths off – all by yourself. Keep going mate…South Africa would do well to get to 75 at this rate.
April 25th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
I’m not really revelling in the fact that Australia are ripping the Protea’s a new one. I would have liked to have seen a competitive game and the Australians beaten if i’m honest.
They have proven themselves to be the standout team in world cricket, just like the All Blacks have done in the game of rugby. Both have suffered the odd loss (with Oz cricket losing more than the ABs in the last 3 years), but both are consistently the best, and on their day the best teams in the world.
To espouse the rubbish in this article and to give it credence is not only petty, but insulting to the pre-eminent rugby team of the moment. Keo’s article sounds more like someone trying to find scraps of proof that the ABs are beatable somehow rather than the reasoned analysis of someone knowing where and why they can be beaten. Who exactly is showing the fear here?
The Boks can beat the ABs. Fact.
For the Boks to beat the ABs, they will have to beat several other leading nations in the RWC beforehand, something they have consistently failed to do in the last few years under Jake White. Fact.
The ABs may well be wary of the Boks above all others, but the likelihood of the two meeting is pretty low due to the previous point above.
When journalists like Keo write **** like what is in this article, karma always finds a way to restore balance.
Keo, lay off the hyperbole will you and call it the way it is, rather than the way you dreamed last night.
April 25th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
Stodders as per usual, Keo is a tad early!
April 25th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
SA lei aan terminale Malinga koors.
So, die patete het besluit om eerder ‘n week vroeer huis toe te kom as om die onvermydelike vir nog ‘n week uit te stel. Fnokken pateties.
April 25th, 2007 at 4:43 pm
Seems to me that both Keo and G Smith are suffering from a serious case of “foot in mouth” disease!
April 25th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
lol Keo, a humdinger of note…fine effort.
April 25th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
I fear it is time to leave the office and torture myself at the pub as I watch the Proteas struggle to 215 all out!
Cheers all. Have a gr8 evening / morning depending on where you are.
April 25th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
200 Dragons!
April 25th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Funny how the Proteas (favorites) got hammered by the Black Caps. You wish! The RWC will be like the U19 RWC…. a piece of p..s, particularly if they play the Jaapies who were outclassed in Ireland….. again.
You only hope is a Jaapie referee.
April 25th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
KEO “I loved watching the Black Caps getting smashed . A world cup semi final implosion . Get used to it New Zealanders . This is minor to whats coming in Paris ”
Never been one to ridicule but for once , i treat this article with a sneer. Why would you take joy and pride in someones misfortunes or at least be a little fascinated by other peoples trauma ?
April 25th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
What a dumb article. The Black Caps were never favorites to win the WC so comparing them to the All Blacks is disingenuous at best and dumb at worst. It seems like the only favorites to choke at the World Cup were the Proteas!
April 25th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
Sorry Keo,
I’ve always liked and mostly agreed with your articles but this one is ****.
April 25th, 2007 at 8:00 pm
#202… A little lesson in history here. Keo had his sarmies confiscated by the NZ Customs people and was slapped with a rather large fine for bringing in unproccessed meat.
he has had it in for New zealand ever since and has been forcasting the demise of teh All Blacks and The Crusaders ever since. Funny thing is that the AB’s are ranked No 1 in the world despite Keo.
April 25th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
LOL : guess there was some justice with SA’s thrashing today : Keo probably regretting some of these sentences.
April 25th, 2007 at 10:54 pm
funny article Keo.
its good to show you have a sense of humour sometimes.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
keo, you are really asking for hate mail hahahaha.
we all know nz cricket isnt as half as good as their rugby. we all know that some ridiculously small percentage of schools in nz even have a grass cricket pitch to play on. some schools dont even have oval fields to play on, normally a rugby field. nz cricket is not nearly as good as say a aussie, india, sri lanka, pakistan, windies, even sa. they dont have the infrastructure in the sport to make it good/better. for them to compete so well needs kudos. to talk of ab implosion so early is poor form.
yes, i agree the kiwis are **** scared of us. but to say they talking themselves into a loss, a WC loss is pure ****. if they have their B squad out there we will still struggle to dominate them in the late stages of the WC.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
“World Cup Curse Of Crashing Kiwis”
is a very funny headline in light of todays cricket result.
For the kiwi cricketer to make it to 5 semi finals is a noteworthy achievement.
We should never be in the top 4 in the first place competing agaianst countries like SA, India, Pakistan, England, etc. with 10-100 times our population to select from.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:17 pm
#147
Now this is the difference between NZ and SA.
You call them black in SA.
In NZ we call them Kiwis
You call them white in SA
In NZ we call them Kiwis
See what is happening.Grow up little one.
And by the way this article from Keo is just plain stupid
April 25th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Oh my God, is that you’re best effort Keo!
First, you’ve got to get to the semi’s or final before you meet us, and based on SA’s pathetic record, that is not a done thing.
You lot are a desperate bunch, more than I thought, and to think you need to rely on a fabled weakness, or to attempt to draw a similarity to cricket, WTF!
Grow up SA, a couple of wins in the S14 means jack **** at international level. The most crucial thing you lot need to think about is winning away from home – you’ve been found out too often.
Ever heard of playing mind games, thats what the AB management are doing to you guys, and Keo, you’ve also fallen for it, hook line and sinker buddy!
April 25th, 2007 at 11:30 pm
Gretep
Thanks for the explanation , i had put it down to the fact that traumatic situations ( suffered by others ) i believe , is the way humans vicariously , and almost completly unconsciously induldge in cruelty an aspect of humanity which is kept all but hidden in modern civilised society .
April 25th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
Boy, dont we feel stupid right now, with our cricketers folding in the same way?
April 26th, 2007 at 12:16 am
keo,
dont know what to make of u bru, however without a doubt this is the greatest article you have ever written – great in the sense that it’s so true and relevant. there is officially no greater lover than myself for sa sport and all sa. what a great article
April 26th, 2007 at 12:19 am
keo, bru, great webpage, seriously. fantastic. mba from harvard, no jokes, and your webpage among the best compared to anything.
April 26th, 2007 at 12:22 am
Jackman – you dont read much do you? If this is the best thing you’ve read from Keo, you have got some serious issues – you need a councillor or something man, or a tarrot card reader, maybe a voodoo doctor from the jungle or something, coz you’ve lost the plot sucker.
April 26th, 2007 at 12:52 am
Hurricane – post 210.
Dont talk bollocks mate. I live in NZ, and there is plenty race identification – and racial discrimination too. I have been quite shocked by it since I got here to be honest as I never expected it. The number of kiwi’s who have started off a ranting sentence to me with the words, “I dont meant to be racist but…”
I lived in the London before I came here and people there are a lot more tolerant than white kiwi’s (I’ll use the term even if you claim not to) so dont kid yourself or go jumping on your high horse.
April 26th, 2007 at 12:55 am
this article is surely a wind up – and you guys are taking the bait the way i thought only south africans can. its funny to see.
Kiakaka – dont go popping a blood vessel now….
April 26th, 2007 at 1:56 am
217
london attitudes differ from the rest of the uk . . . try getting out more
April 26th, 2007 at 1:58 am
219 and the article is in jest
April 26th, 2007 at 2:10 am
chch
This article is without substance, pay it no mind mate.
You too Kia.
Only a fool will ignore the threat that the AB’s pose in any World Cup year.
But, as you know….”fools rush in where angels fear to tread”.
So….
April 26th, 2007 at 2:13 am
SA cricket and AB’s have same tag: chokers
at best 50% chance for AB’s in WC due to mental frailness…is this a common thing with NZ blokes?
April 26th, 2007 at 2:26 am
And I thought that this was a RUGBY forum?, just goes to show how stupid we KIWI`s are.
April 26th, 2007 at 2:35 am
Pietman – what the hell are you on about, you’ve spun yourself into a circle man.
My response was targeted to keo – whom I assumed knew better, and a few of the horn wearing brigade trying to turn a cricket defeat into a hope that a rugby team will follow suit.
A wind up you may call it, more like another stab with the desperation stick with a sprinkling of idiot dust if you ask me.
April 26th, 2007 at 2:44 am
Kia
What now?
I am asking you to ignore keo’s article because it is without substance!
Read my 221# again mate. Is my English that bad?
April 26th, 2007 at 3:05 am
Great Keo – what a **** thing to put out the day before SA crashes out in even worse style. Now who is the joke on – hell the kiwis on this site must be pissing themselves after you have stirred the pot. They actually supported SA in preference to Aus in today’s whitewash in the Carribean but badly thought out articles like yours will make them think twice next time. Did it not even enter your mind that Aus could put us away just like SL did to the blackcaps!
April 26th, 2007 at 3:20 am
226# out wide
I agree.
Somewhat embarrassing, and a slap in the face of our Kiwi friends.
April 26th, 2007 at 3:23 am
217
i have a similar experience to munkiboi. i could have just grown up in a really sheltered environment in the southern and central suburbs in cape town, but i had never personally come across racism till i got to nz. the kind of anger towards immigrants from india, china, south korea, somalia and other central africans. i couldnt believe the abuse i heard. clearly not all kiwis are racists, but i fear the aussie race mentality kinda resided over here for far too long.
been all over england too, and didnt quite hear anything as bad as i have in nz.
April 26th, 2007 at 3:34 am
Tomsta
Kind of ironic, if you think back to ‘81 and what all those riots and boycots were about during the Springboks’ tour of NZ.
But it is a new generation and social environment in NZ now, I suppose, compared to way back then.
April 26th, 2007 at 3:46 am
Pietman – it was the “fools rush in bit” – I couldnt quite connect the dots there sorry.
Agree – a load of bollox that has really back fired to Keo.
Regarding the racists remarks Tomsta – I hear you very loud mate, and yes, to a degree you are right.
And I’ll tell you why.
For so long in NZ, our population grew organically, not by massive immigration – or to be more precise, not since the likes of the polynesians in the 70’s and the Asians in the 90’s.
Now, both sets stand out because of physical features, ie skin colour, eye shape, nose shape etc, and as with most white (european decendant types) they were looked down on – wrong I know, but they were, and every white culture is guilty of it, even France and their immigrants from northern Africa, same basic thing.
You mentioned England – good point, however, the west indians, pakistanis, Arabs and Indians have been emigrating there alot longer than the new bunch of Aisans here, and as such, the English community have grown up with it, tolerated it, and so to have the new generations of these cultures – they’re now effectively poms etc.
That kiwis eventually got used to having samoans in our community etc – coz they looked similar to maoris, was the general rule – most kiwis still do not understand the rift between Tongans and Samoans and Raro’s and Solomon Islanders etc, they group them all together in one.
Most Kiwis got annoyed because the new wave of asian immigrants decided not to blend in with Kiwis, and ostricised themselves to a point by this decision. Their choice to bring their way of life and speak their tongue as opposed to becoming like a Kiwi, learning English, blending in as did the first generation of chinese people here many moons ago, and the inidians did many moons ago, set themselves apart, and kiwis would say, why dont they try and blend in etc, and drive better, and dont be so ignorant with the language when they know they are in the wrong – selective levels of playing the “I speak no english” happens all the time, esp in business.
So who is at fault? Us for venting our frustration at their shortcomings, or them for electing to isolate themselves.
Its a tough one, as Kiwis do not really make a choice to be racist, we get pissed off when the sub culture of immigrants live a life of crime, ie triad gangs, street kid gangs, and so forth, but I have no problem working with the good ones, socialising with them or trying to do responsible business with them.
They need to embrace our values of ethics in business of which many of them are severly short on.
The Aussies are way ahead of us when it comes to racism – however, they too are selective, as they have embraced the wonders of italians and greeks into melbourne, but still scorn the vietnamese and middle eastern influences around Sydney.
April 26th, 2007 at 3:56 am
Kia
No problem.
The ‘fools rush in bit’, as you call it, was a reference to people shooting their mouths off too soon!!!!
April 26th, 2007 at 4:04 am
Kia
In Korea it is known as the ‘Uri Complex’.
Uri = us/we.
Koreans tend to live in their own ‘towns’ and areas when they go abroad.
They are very insecure and withdrawn outside of their own country.
(My wife sometimes arranges field trips to Canada and the USA to try and get Korean students immersed into the English culture.
Very difficult. The moment they land there, they look for their own kind to share a cabin with, and the whole idea is lost.)
April 26th, 2007 at 4:17 am
230
kiakaha mate, i also hear you. ive been here for nearly 10 years now. and in that time auckland has changed a heck of a lot.
i totally agree with issues of cultures immigrating here but not integrating. i have a huge problem with the south africans that immigrate here and dont integrate either. wherever the immigrant is from doesnt seem to make much difference nowadays. there isnt a need for the chinese to integrate. they have their own yellow pages for auckland. the chinese are so dam organised i wouldnt be surprised to see a few more faces in positions of power.
nz is a young country, and i think the last 5 or 6 years has been a big learning curve in terms of immigration policy for nz. nz and kiwis want to be open minded and accepting of the differences around the world through various cultures, but didnt foresee the impending issues of allowing mass immigration of an uncontrolled nature take a hold of a city like auckland.
so i guess the question still stands, and ive had long debates through my uni years about how to better integrate immigrants into kiwi culture. it took more than 5 years for me to get used to the ‘kiwi way’ and i lost my saffa accent within 16months. how do people who do honestly come here to make nz their home,integrate? i dont know how i did it, i dont know how my family did it.
i dont think it matters what culture we talking about here. whether islanders, asians, africans, whatever. it takes effort to mix it with the kiwis and do it their way. it means leaving your comfort zone altogether. and i guess just so many immigrants decide to stay within similar support groups in familiar settings, and then just never leave.
btw, is it still ok to discriminate against australians? i still dont like them much
April 26th, 2007 at 4:22 am
Pietman
same thing at uni mate. try and organise teams and project groups, and there is instant like grouping. its that fear of stepping out into unfamiliar territory.
ive since made good friends who are internationaly students in auckland. they say they feel subordinate, and insecure when around kiwis, us, europeans, western culture. things are too unfamiliar and make them uncomfortable.
it could stem into a trust thing, where they feel that communication barriers are so high that ‘they’ feel incapable of letting go. heck its probably worth a million more research essays.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:23 am
Pietman – I thought as much, it sends off the wrong signals when we see other immigrants from UK, SA, Canada etc really doing their best to reach out and connect with Kiwis.
I know many of them are attempting to learn English etc, but you have to question why they leave their own land first if they are that insecure about it, things not so good in Korea?
April 26th, 2007 at 4:32 am
You’re always allowed to pick on Aussies mate, they think they’re the next USA!
Hell, I spend more time at work here socialising with the saffers, poms and irish than I do with most of the kiwis – I know many wont believe this, but there are many many kiwis who hate rugby, its bloody true!
April 26th, 2007 at 4:39 am
yeah, ive found that since AB’s keep losing world cups, more and more kiwis are turning to sailing or soccer
naaa, but seriously now, it seems its not a majority of kiwis who are mad about rugby. but the folks who do, go absolute bonkers about it and make enough noise for the rest of the world to think nz is a rugby mad country. some past teammates enjoyed playing the game a lot, and some are even overseas on contract, but they dont watch it or talk about it like the rest of us beer drinking mad rugby people. strange
aussie bashing is great fun. i always look fwd to the trips to the gold coast, or when the aussie cricket or rugby team are at eden park.
oh the days of dossing in london,,,we were totally outnumbered by aussies but still gave them stick day in day out.
April 26th, 2007 at 5:58 am
232 Pietman
in Korea do you live in an expat community ?
April 26th, 2007 at 6:29 am
chch
No, I have a house in the country side. I don’t mix with ex-pats, except on ’special’ days such as Freedom Day.
They are a negative bunch mostly, expats.
I prefer the locals.
April 26th, 2007 at 6:34 am
235# Kia
Cultural and language barriers hard for them to cross.
Look at that pshyco in Virginia, for instance.
They dream about the ‘West’, but the Koreans are a young nation. They only started learning English about 20 years ago, and for them the USA is the ‘dream’…until they get there.
April 26th, 2007 at 6:55 am
Pietman – Hmmm, yeah I thought that was the case, I knew many had gone there, how come we get so many too – is NZ/AUS etc seen as the next best thing to USA? I understand USA probably has more opportunities etc, but if they dont mix in, they’re always going to be on the outside looking in arent they?
April 26th, 2007 at 6:58 am
Tomsta – I also think many kiwis are simply “rugbyed” out. I’m lucky to watch one game a weekend at best now, too many other things to do/watch/get involved with etc
With over 90 live games of rugby every year, the wives are fighting back!
(and thats not even the league/yachting on now/cricket WC/F1, and other random sporting events!!)
April 26th, 2007 at 7:02 am
Kia
I don’t know about you guys being the next thing to the US, but there is an exchange programme with the unis for instance, and also Hyandai, Kia, LG and those do have some pull in your part of the world…and it is nearer and cheaper.
But Koreans on the whole, are OK.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:03 am
74: Just looked back through some of the posts – and that post officially surpasses Keo’s dribble as the best piece of info put on here in the past few days, well done Viewer, well done.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:05 am
Kia
Dont forget, we have 100,000 sq km, that’s S-Korea, 30% of which is habitable, 48,2 million people living here..
They have to get out.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:05 am
Pietman – I only meant it from a country who allows immigration of Koreans etc, I know we are a million miles away from the infrastructure of the states, but it was more about Koreans wanting to move to an English speaking country etc
April 26th, 2007 at 7:07 am
48 million – thats insane in that amount of space, there’s still only 4 million of us in all our rolling green hills – we like it that way too.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:08 am
Hello Pietman – 239 – so true, also here in USA. Negativity alsmost always include mouthing off against SA…coutry of birth..I’d say 75% of saffers in USA you do not want to mix with..who knows why they are this way…like the country owes them something..
April 26th, 2007 at 7:11 am
Ok boys
I’ll cath ya’ll later…and then we can save the world!
April 26th, 2007 at 7:13 am
249# ‘catch’
Multi-tasking not my strong point.
Cheers.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:31 am
nice discussion here. sorry i been working so damn hard i missed it!
April 26th, 2007 at 7:40 am
239 Pietman,
Yep, many of the expats here are not worth knowing. Some are very raciest believe it or not. Some are just mean. Many are good though.
Philippines has 10% more land than New Zealand but 2200% more people! (88 million vs 4 million)
You can congradulate the Catholic Church on the fine population effort
April 26th, 2007 at 7:40 am
munki
Same here, popping in and out.
But it has been interesting indeed.
Kia has made some observations worth pondering.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:42 am
251 munkiboi,
Pietman will be back. Still early in Korea
April 26th, 2007 at 7:45 am
252 Ok, not just the church. Also an economy/social intrastructure/culture where income is all about the family. Children are a retirement income plan
April 26th, 2007 at 7:49 am
keo, shut up.
If NZ are expected to fold they wont.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:51 am
i’ve been driving all over Auckland the last few hours between home and office checking you guys out, ha ha.
Sensible discussions in here today, a touch of reality is good.
April 26th, 2007 at 8:07 am
What a bunch of Clueless rugby folk we have here.
The only way that the All Blacks can lose to the Boks is if SA lose to England in the pools. – Is that the Great SA plan to win the WC?
April 26th, 2007 at 8:14 am
#217
Where did i say in my post that there was no racism in NZ?
Tell me why are you here
April 26th, 2007 at 8:25 am
HAHAHAHAHA, this article was no doubt written BEFORE the second semi-final.
The performance by SA against Australia was a HORRIFIC CHOKE much worse then the Kiwis effort.
And SA has now choked VERY BADLY in the last THREE cricket world cups and the last TWO rugby world cups.
People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones!!
April 26th, 2007 at 9:04 am
Tomsta and Munkibooi
If you guys are SURPRISED that you have encountered racism in New Zealand then you don’t know that much about human nature.
Many people, all over the world are racist or hold some form of racist attitude. In fact I’m sure that you and me and everyone reading this post are racist in some way and discriminate in some way, consciously or unconciously. Did you think that NZ somehow missed out on this human characteristic? I try not to be racist and so do most people.
South African politicians tried to institutionalise racism and make it normal. This was a foolish and disastrous thing, and look how SA is suffering the consequences now.
As for NZ, yes it has its share of racist people like all countries. However the UN notes that NZ has a high level of integration and racial tolerance. It doesn’t really matter what colour you are in NZ and that’s one of the things I love about it.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:06 am
By the way Munkibooi, Welcome to Godzone. Don’t worry, you’ll soon settle in. It took me about one day.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:07 am
Only way to face Nz in the semi’s is to lose to England in group stage and then beat beat Aus on 1/4 final.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:45 am
The article is not mouthing off about facing the AB’s and beating them in the semis, it simply highlights that in a one off test of significance at the WC the boks have the potential to derail the AB’s, bearing the AB track record when they carry the favourites tag.
Meeting and Beating them in the final is a given.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:46 am
I retract my previous comment… re: Semis.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:28 am
good lord, it seems ok for the australasians to ham it up with us, but as soon as the boot is on the other foot, the tears start.
grow a sense of humour, do u honestly think we dont all know how munificent the kiwis are?
actually the responses probably say alot, sounds like worry to me, obviously alot of pressure to win this one.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:32 am
Nice work by the Proteas yesterday…lekker!
April 26th, 2007 at 11:19 am
Well I thought keo’s jibe was quite funny.
We have tried every tactic under the sun and have come up short when it has mattered most. Until we get over the hump and actually win a second RWC, we deserve what is dished up to us.
Chokers, it is a harse and abrasive name tag. But if the cap fits?
April 26th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Hmmm.. I was wondering, in all the earlier postings where certain individuals seem to enjoy defending the aptly named “quota system” saying that it is -unfair- to have a team that is predominantly white in a predominantly black country, why is it that no one thinks its unfair that while there is no cap on the number of black players in the 1st 15, there is still a cap on the number of whites? Isn’t this quite racist as well? It seems like the whites are being made to pay the price for the sins of their forebears.
If the “blacks” are talented like paulse habana pietersen etc then i would pick them in a heartbeat. But wouldn’t it be better for SA rugby if say they had a team like this
1.Os
2. John Smit
3. CJ van de Linde
4. Bakkies Botha
5. Matfield
6. Schalk Burger
7. Juan Smith
8. Venter/Skinstad
9. du Preez/ Pienaar
10. Pretorius/steyn
11. Habana
12. de Villiers
13. Fourie
14. Steyn
15. Percy
Hmm seems to me that this would be useful in a tight game where you have at least 4 ppl with huge boots to play for territory. Steyns 60 m drop kicks would be better than whatever the Ndungane brothers could pull off
April 26th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
sorry theres only 1 black in there though.. but IMO the only other spot you could put a black in on ability is the other wing…
April 26th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Delek, #261.
I shake your hand and welcome you with a hug (a manly hetrosexual hug). Slap you on the back and say thanks for coming.
We aint perfect. Thats’s a fact. But some of us try.
And thanks to you for trying.
Cane.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Get used to it South Africa, because come October,,,,Keo you are a ******* joke.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Another STUPID article by KEO
Looks like KEO has stumbled accross some of that funny tobacco again.
Digging your own grave again, KEO ?
April 27th, 2007 at 6:32 am
From time to time Keo over-medicates on that bone-throwing muti he takes and he suffers a massive mental cramp called “Wishful Thinking”.
Then people like me have to talk him down from his madness.
It’s a tough job but someone’s got to do it.