Steve’s shocker
Here’s the photographic evidence to prove New Zealand referee Steve Walsh incorrectly determined the outcome of the Super 14 final.
Walsh told this website’s Ryan Vrede he may have got it wrong. No Steve you DID get it wrong.
This is not a picture to encourage play on. Walsh should have blown for either a knock, or penalised the Bulls player on the ground for scooping the ball back after losing it or any one of three Bulls players for not being on their feet at the ruck.
Whatever the choice play should have been stopped and possession should have been handed to the Sharks. It would have also been the end of the game.
Once again a failure to use technology has determined a championship and where the bloody hell was the touch judge’s vision?
This was a shocker!
Richard Young, who sent the clip, writes (sic)
Dear Country People
I only watched the last three minutes of the main game on Saturday afternoon for reasons that might have been deduceable on Sunday.
But I have captured a series of nine still images of the video between the 45th and 47th seconds of the 80th minute thereof.
Here is just one of them in the 45th second of the 80th minute.
Would anyone care to offer an opinion on what is the meaning of this?
Apologies to recipients of this email who have no interest whatsoever in the outcome of the Vodacom Super Whatever 2007.
Some Answer Options
Is it legal?
Is it illegal?
Is it blindness?
Is it shortsightedness?
Is it outofsightedness?
Is it conspiracy?
Is it sad?
Is it not sad?
Is it a combination of any of the above?
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:04 am
No 1 for this one
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Was Albert’s try a try?
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Too many games are decided through referring mistakes. Referees cannot be expected to be perfect. More needs to be done to assist them in making right decisions. The time has come to introduce one appeal against referree’s decisions per game for each team, as in American football. The coaches could make the appeals during the match and video replays could be used to reach the right decision. Commentators and viewers watching games usually see the errors. Why not make use of the technology? This HAS to happen, and happen SOON! It would reduce contentiousness in a big way and increase enjoyment of games. Keo, please take this forward and keep it in the news until it happens. It’s the right thing to do.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:25 pm
the milk is already lying all over the floor, no use crying over it now! Just win the trophy next year Sharks
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:26 pm
Sure. Should I now go and sift through the recording of the game to capture a still image of the penalty try that should have been awarded to the Bulls when Butch James illegally stole the ball from the ruck? The Bulls were right on the goal line of the Sharks, and the Sharks were desperately scrambling in defence and suddenly the ball pops up on the Sharks side…
Nah. There were bad calls on both sides. The Bulls wasted more scoring opportunities than the Sharks, and in the highlights of the game on Supersport, seem to be doing most of the attacking in the game.
On the performance of the day, they probably deserved a draw. But seeing as it was a home game for the Sharks, that tells you that the Bulls are clearly the better team, by a good margin.
In the end, the best team in SA won the trophy. Get over it…
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:27 pm
How the hell should steve see that? He is standing on the other side of the ruck! If you want to make same noise and get some hits, blam the TJ on that side, whoever that was!
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:28 pm
About Albert’s try!! I am a stormer and had no problem with his try!!!!
He went to ground and in one movement placed the ball like he is allowed to!!! Other wise we can go back and claim the currie cup back where Grant Esterhuizen was held by Pieter Rossouw and still scored by placing the ball over the try line!!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Tacitus,
The Sharks finished top of the log. That makes them the best team in SA.
But all that aside, is anybody surprised that the Bulls had to resort to cheating to win? After Bryan Habana’s WWF audition on Percy, this is just another misdemeanor to add to their staggering list.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Linston Manuels the TJ who missed this one ?
You owe us one bugger!
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:31 pm
The way ppl are going on over this, you’d think that they think they still have a chance of getting the trophy if they prove that Walsh was wrong.
From that pic, Walsh wouldn’t have been able to see, but i agree, the TJ shoulda done something.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:33 pm
How often have the Bulls lost in the past on bad refereeing and then everyone shouts: “Typical Bulls – they blame the ref!” Linston Manuels, Jonathan Kaplan, Freek Burger – the list is endless.
For once the shoe is on the other foot
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:33 pm
in the 1998 Currie Cup Final, Chester Williams scored a winning try for WP against the Bulls which was adjudged forward, when in fact it was incredibly marginal.
The try was not allowed and the Bulls won the Currie Cup
Maybe ***** is on their side?
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:34 pm
1966, England v. West Germany, Football World Cup Final. Did the ball cross the line to make the score 3-2 to England? Who knows. Did they use TV images, computers and C3PO to try and prove/disprove the goal? YES. Does it matter at all? NO. It is fkin pointless. The cup is in Pretoria and not in Durban and I for one don’t give a **** whether the Sharks feel cheated or not.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Twig i bet you woulda loved it if they suspended habana for a few tests for that shot on percy, hey?
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:35 pm
who is the Bulls player playing that ball?
He should be the real hero with Liefling and Habana
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Hoops.
Albert placed it once before the line and then placed it again. (2nd movement). You are allowed to place the ball, but only once.
Anyway, none of this matters.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Get over it the bulls won because the Sharks choked by not kicking the ball out
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Hoops.
Albert placed it once before the line and then placed it again. (2nd movement). You are allowed to place the ball, but only once.
Anyway, none of this matters.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:36 pm
saffa, not at all, he’s a vital asset to our team. but rules is rules, m’boy.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:37 pm
Did the linesman bring it to his attention? If not then it is stupid to blame the referee as he quite clearly can not see the ball on the other side of the play ……
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:38 pm
bad luck sharks…
in the words of chopper – “harden the Fu#k up”
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Die beker is blou!!!
Nothing will change that….but I do feel that the final summed up the whole S14……teams one games in the dying minutes a couple of times…like bulls vs Chiefs…Sharks vs Saders, Blues vs Brumbies!!!
In the end I felt the shark deserved it more….but they had more than enough time to defend their line after the mistake and well done to Habana for actually scoring the try!!!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Tjorts # 2
please explain how albert’s try would have changed the result. ask someone for a calculator.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:40 pm
Two issues here
The picture excludes the TJ who was 3m away and in full view of the incident. Steve Walsh was on the other side of the ruck and unsighted… it was the TJs call
More importantly, certain Bulls supporters claimed this to be a great “fetchers” turnover. As I said this must be the distinctly nouveau type of Bulls fetcher!
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:40 pm
I’m speechless and the whole country saw this as well. The Bulls did not deserve to win period !A similiar mistake Springboks vs All Blacks a couple of years ago. In a Tri-Nations game when Richard Bands tried to score a try an All Black player knocked the ball out of his hands as he tried to stand up from a ruck 3 metres from the try line.The ref gave a scrum and blew for time I was speechles. The boks would have won that game. Remember the two forward passes in two Currie Cup finals, WP vs Freestate & WP vs Transvaal. Ja what can we as spectators do…just watch ? Cheers, Ed
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:41 pm
What goes around, comes around, fortunately for the Bulls, their luck was at the right place at the right time.
None of this whineging is going to change the result, no matter how unpleasant it is for all of us non bulls supporters.
At least a SA side is now the reigning S14 champion team, let’s move forward and support the boks now.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:41 pm
You can see my comments in another thread. First off, I’m a Sharks supporter. All this would be unnecessary if Steyn had kicked the ball out when he had a chance after full time. Instead he kicked it long giving the Bulls a chance. Refs **** up all the time, but the refs mistake was no worse than Steyn’s. I’m not vilifying Steyn either, all players make mistakes, but the blame shouldn’t be shifted onto the ref.
Unfortunately, this mistake was visible and preventable had the touch judge done his job, and also unfortunately it was in a match deciding movement. If it had been earlier in the game, no-one would be mentioning it. Perhaps someone can go back and see how many offenses were committed in the lead up to the Sharks scores. Was Albert’s try really a try?
What’s done is done, and pretty much all my Sharks mates feel the same way. We congratulate the gracious Bulls fans, and to those who call us all bad losers, go bury your heads in the sand some more because you’re not being objective.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:41 pm
Based on the perfomances of the last four years the Bulls deserve to be the first SA winners – so I believe justice was done in the end. The Bulls have worked up to this point over the last six years – and has been most consistent overall. And I’m a Lions fan.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:41 pm
The touch judge should really have spotted it. When I was watching the game I actually spotted it directly, I thought the Bulls were gonna be blown for a penalty…20 seconds later, Bulls win! Bulls did well to win but anyone who says the bulls deserved to win the match didn’t watch te game… Anyway it’s in the past, what’s important now is the Boks
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:42 pm
Twig
You can blame whoever you want, the Bulls ARE super 14 champions. As Tacitus said amazing how knowbody’s camplaining about the Butch incident.(Because it wasn’t the winning try.
Stop whining and face the facts. Bulls are champs.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Overall if there is a team who deserved to be champions based on the past 2 or 3 years it is the Bulls.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:44 pm
so that guy lying on the ground is a cheat according to the evidence. is it just coincedence that he happens to play for the bulls too?
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:45 pm
Well said Number 15.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Ha! ha! ha!
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Kevin,
What I am getting at is that the bad decisions went both ways. The Sharks lead 14-13 before Albert scored a try which a TMO probably would have deemed as a second movement. Anything could have happened (and a lot did happen) in those last minutes.
The Bulls won – finish en klaar!
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:47 pm
and they call themselves sportsman. no sport in the way that ball was played on the ground.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:48 pm
Badbok, don’t state the obvious. No-one’s disputing that the Bulls have been awarded the trophy.
But don’t pretend that they’re not notorious cheats who don’t deserve the title.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Hello…ello….llo….lo…o
Something sounds a bit hollow around here, the victory maybe?
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Bod #24
You are so spot on … yesterday it was all legit and now the excuses on this thread are priceless … “we was also robbed”
Number15 #27
Get real, Steyn’s teammates did enough to nulify his mistake. As the picture clearly shows. So if Steyn’s **** up was so bad why didn’t the other 14 just sit down and let them score. No, they continued to play and turn the ball over. So they played the full game not 79 minutes like every second fool is shouting but lost out to poor refereeing. Not going to change the outcome, but you can’t hide the facts.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:49 pm
At the end of the year, the records will show the following: Super 14 Final Result – Bulls 20, Sharks 19. The controversy will be long forgotten. So we should’ve won the test against Ireland where John Smit asked to speak to his team and the Irish scored a quick tap try? Let it go guys. The linesman should’ve picked it up, he didn’t.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Oh please give me a break MARTIN. If everybody who plays rugby, played by the rules then there would not be Penalties. I suppose your heavenly Sharks have never played the ball on the ground.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Stocky build, short brown hair… could it be Derick Kuun?
Or is that Derick in the foreground?
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:50 pm
and because of slack officials fans are denied what should have been a great game and win either way.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:51 pm
hollow? no I thought the movie’s name was “gone in 60 seconds”. Too bad sharkies. Next year back to mid table mediocrity methinks.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:52 pm
There is no trophy for a moral victory so would the Sharks please shut the f#ck up now. It’s over. I’m hurting just as bad as you but this is pointless.
What we should all be doing is channelling our efforts to put pressure on the ruling bodies to make sure this stops happening. It ruins a good contest, that we all pay good money to watch.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Please allow the Bulls and their fans to enjoy this thoroughly. It is a sport and things like this will happen at times. If the ref and his support staff did this on purpose to benefit the Bulls it will be wrong – but this is not such a case at all. Let go of it. The Sharks made huge progress this season and have much to be happy about – so they should not be so narrow to base all joy on the outcome of the final.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Badbok, a penalty is exactly what should have been awarded.
That’s the point.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Julle sharks is patetiese verloorders! Bulle is champs – aanvaar dit!
When the calls go for you, you guys dont mind hey? Remember that hand in the ruck from a sharks player that made Troy Flavell fumble the ball into there own goal line?? JP Pietersen then just fell on it and the try was given – although illegally. The sharks won that game – but if that try wasnt scored they wouldve lost!
Then the final wouldve been at Loftus and things wouldve been different!
So stop wining! Even Albert’s try is shakey…
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:54 pm
It was a despicable act of fetchery and certainly no example to aspiring openside flankers across SA…
But I agree, the Sharks can moan till they’re blue in the face. This will only make them appear to be Bulls supporters.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Tjorts
So if Albert’s try didn’t happen then it would have been a 5 yard scrum am i right / or a penalty… not sure. 5 yard scrum and we have the Bulls pinned on their goal line with a pack being dominated.
Come to think of it, i’d rather have Albert’s try disallowed than what was to follow.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:55 pm
badbok – i’m neutral when it comes to these two teams although i have to admit i shouted for the bulls(only cos my inlaws were screaming for the sharks and it pissed them off) and i also admit to arguing with them about this incident saying that it was fine(of course i knew it was’nt but it pissed them off even more…and they left early)
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:55 pm
For a team with such high morals the right thing to do now would be to arrange for the cup to be handed over to the Sharks.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:55 pm
Even Habana himself thinks that he deserved a red card way back in the first half. How might that not have changed the game?
As the old saying goes: “When ifs and buts are candy and nuts it will be Christmas all year long.”
IF the ref did this, IF a player did that…
Get over it.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:56 pm
True, the Bulls did knock the ball and Steve Walsh made a mistake. Actually, he made more than one…
Consider Albert van den Berg’s try. If you look at the reply Walsh did a full lap around the maul and only saw the ball on the ground, over the line. He never saw how it was grounded and never asked for a TV ref to confirm the try.
In my opinion that was not a try, but the ball was grounded in a 2nd move. If Walsh called on the TV ref, the try would not have been awarded and the Bulls would’ve probably been awarded a penalty. In this scenario Hougaard would’ve taken the Bulls to the half-way line and a drop kick or penalty would’ve been enough to win the game.
Granted, Habana probably also deserved 10 minutes in the bin… many ifs and buts. The only certainty is that the Bulls won the match.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:56 pm
Correct Katman
Dereck “fetcher” Kuun
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:56 pm
Twig
Its rugby idiot! You get away with what you can, whether its hands in the ruck or whatever… Then the sharks are cheats as well! Why did they accept the JP Pietersen try in Auckland when they knew it wasnt a try????
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:57 pm
The right thing to do would be to listen to **** Muir mr. BobZimmerman… and take the defeat on the chin. Too bad. Cup lost.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:57 pm
i think the trophy the bulls received was a replica
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:57 pm
Supa
amazing how everything can be debated and all referess criticised (Kaplan., linston manuels) for years until the boot is on the other foot.
Now we must all hold hands, turn a blind eye and sing liefling together… that poster at the game was brilliant “real men don’t sing liefling to each other!”
Enjoy your win.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:57 pm
What’s done is done and nothing will change it, no matter how in-depth the analysis is.
I was at the game on Saturday and lost count of the number of agitated Bulls fans that were streaming out the exits muttering to themselves and blaming their **** theam for losing when the time ran out.
Suddenly when the volume increased, they came running back in again and when the final try was scored and converted, to a man they all claimed that they KNEW the Bulls were going to win.
Emotion is a fickle thing in the heat of a situation like that, but Tacitus, your summing up of the result smacks of idiocy. I’m willing to bet that you were one of the many faceless Bulls who had given it all up to a 19-13 loss, and yet when the Bulls triumphed as they did (and sincere congratulations for them for doing it) you come out with gushings that they were by far the better side and that they deserved to win it because they were away from home which automatically makes them that much better?
It’s laughable mate, as is most of your rose-tinted analisis of the Bulls as the world’s greatest ever team.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:57 pm
20-19. ‘Looks at the scoreboard’…and the history books, while you’re at it…
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:59 pm
bewer
I also thought Alberts try should not have been one…
It all comes down to the Sharks choking for their seventh final in a row…
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:59 pm
CAnt you people forget it now…The Bulls won the Super 14. the sooner you can accpet it, the sooner you can live with it.
For the past 6 years the bulls have dominated SA rugby and continue to.
2002- Currie Cup Champions
2003- Currie Cup Champions
2004- Currie Cup Champions
2005- Runners Up
2006- Joint Winners Champions
2007- Super 14 Champions
The Sharks have now played in 3 Super Rugby finals and have choked in all Three.
Bottom line: SHARKS ARE CHOKERS!!!!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:59 pm
Not since the 24th of June 1995 has South Africa been host to such an important rugby match. It was against all expectations that South Africa beat the All Blacks then and the same was thought of a home final in the 2007 Super 14. Not only did the South African teams achieve two home semi-finals, they managed to win both. In a major surprise two South African teams would play on home soil, for the highest prize in Southern Hemisphere domestic rugby. It should have been lauded and savoured by all who had dreamed of it for a decade of fruitless Super rugby. Instead we paled its significane with the Luke Watson Affair, which overshadowed this milestone in the week leading into the final. It was a classic example of South African rugbys ongoing struggle to grow up.
Saturday came and the best that South Africa had on offer delivered a pulstaing final. There was tension all the way and a thrilling finish, in one of the most memorable games of 2007. It was at times ugly, hard and uncomprimising which epitomises the strengths of our rugby. There were moments of brilliance, deft touches and sublime skill. Neither side gave an inch and the atmosphere was electric. Sadly the officials made an error or two, this is part and parcel of sport. That they were costly can be argued by either sets of fans, there were errors either way. What should be a week of celebration, it was a maginificent occasion, has been marred by allegations of poor reffing and worse yet blatant cheating. Sport, much like life, isn’t always fair and the Sharks we must remeber had their chance to seal the win. A bum call indeed, but you can’t blame the Bulls for taking their last-gasp chance to win the game.
The history book will record a 20 – 19 win for the Bulls and few records have foot notes to place them in context. The Sharks players will know in their hearts they gave the Bulls and out of jail free card and the Bulls will remeber that despite being dead and buried, they gutsed out an historic win. Let it be as the Beatles sang, the trophy has been enraved and the record books written.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Supa, you’re missing my point. Don’t get me wrong, I dislike the Sharks just as much as I despise the Bulls (well, maybe not that bad), but this is a poor decision that drastically altered the outcome of the game.
I couldn’t give two hoots whether it’s a Sharks victory or a Bulls victory, but for the Bulls supporters to be so pig-headed as to not even concede that their guys cheated their way to the title just makes your prejudiced views even more ludicrous.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Its passed now . Forget it . I could also say – if Andrew Mehrtens got the drop goal not Joel Stransky etc . Celebrate the achievement of SA rugby and worry about the future.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:01 pm
#63 bottom line. the bulls are cheaters!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:01 pm
Come on, that photo doesn’t prove that the Sharks should have won the S14.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:02 pm
true Kevin
Im sure all of us can think of different times when a referee cheated us in someway…but he is still human and he makes mistakes – sometimes it goes for you – other times against you. Real winners keep on playing no matter what.
Walsh cant be blamed for the HUGE gap in the sharks team at the end.
Thanx – it was a great final! Just glad im not a shark…
cheers – im out
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:02 pm
blueblood – it proves that the player is cheating.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:02 pm
As a Bulls supporter I must agree there must have been a penalty, but it happend, and the game is over the bulls won, the sharks lost, it was a brilliant season for both the teams, dont let it be over shadowed by the refs and the decisions they made, there were some bad calls that didnt go to the bulls, and some bad calls that went to the bulls.
At the end of the day we are all passionate SA rugby supporters, and we must support the springboks now as a nation, lets forget the provincial rivalry and the who cheated and who done this and that till the Curry Cup, its a test series ahead and then the trinations, lets support them, even if your or my fav player didnt make the team, because they are our representatives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:03 pm
#4 Could not have said it better.
Keo come on dude, don’t incite the muppits, it hurts enough that the sharks lost now this.
As another blogger said ‘It’s rugby …. !’
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:03 pm
As a Shark all I can say is: Let it be. Nothing is going to change the outcome of the game.
To the Sharks: we lost. Accept it.
To those Bulls who now question Albert’s try through their insecurity: the law states that you are allowed one movement to place the ball. Even if his try was disallowed and Hab’s try too, the result would still have been as all the other what iffers above is trying to insinuate.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:03 pm
what’s the saying you guys use “feit soos ‘n koei, that was a mistake” but “feit soos ‘n bul, let’s turn a blind eye and claim we are the best ever and well deserving” … we have been trying for years.
laughable.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:04 pm
martin
bottom line…stormers are losers!
Twig
Whatever mate…you believe its cheating, nothing will change that. I beleieve ALL teams play with there hands in the ruck etc. Its part of the game.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:05 pm
Mr robertparker
I agree that everyone should actually just get a move on but and this is a big but when a team collectively and openly let us know what upstanding and moral individuals they are then any act that is against the rules of the game, or of life for that matteer, would surely smack of hypocrisy.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:05 pm
Cant really blame walsh as the pic shows he couldnt really see but as the article says one has to question that nz touchie he had a perfect view of that one.
The sharks only really have themselves to blame though it took 5 minutes of terrible rugby by them that took the game from a position were they should have won comfortably to a stage one bad decision from the ref cost them the game.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:05 pm
The opening line of the artical states that the photo proves Walsh incorrectly determined the outcome of the final i.e. the winner of the S14.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:06 pm
ag pleez man, im a lions and didnt care who won on saturday, the Sharks fans are being sore loosers,
plus if you had used all the possession you had in the first half you would have won the game comfortably by 10 points.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:07 pm
#67, are you smoking tea bags????
Bulls are a good team, and have worked hard since finishing in the bottom 3 for the majority of the Super 12. The last 3 years have seen them make a remarkable turn around in performances which has seen them win and dominate the Currie Cup. They have now shown what they are made of, and rightly deserve the Super 14 Cup.
Sharks are chokers, and never won the cup, so live with it
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:07 pm
“you believe its cheating”
It’s a transgression of the law clearly stated in the rule-books, it’s not “my belief”!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Some ppl are ridiculous, calling the bulls cheaters and all that, like sharks are saints. Get over yourselves!
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Martin is just upset his team gets hammered every time they play the bulls
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:09 pm
BLOU,BEKER,BORSTE,BALLAS,BEFOKTE BLOU BULLE!!
BLY BY BLOU BULLE,BANANA,BAFANA
GROEN VAN JALOESIE,SORRY BLOU VAN JALOESIE!!!
BULLE BESTE BAL BYTERS.
BULLE BOOOOOOOO
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:10 pm
BobZim, I could not give a rats arse about whatever “Mal Jaco” put on his shirt.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:10 pm
Ah who cares? If the sharks had been in that situation, they would have done the same thing! I’m a Sharks fan and the bulls in my opinion deserved the win. They scored when it mattered.
C’mon boys, lets not turn into whingers who blame defeat on officiating or higher powers. We’ll leave that to certain bulls fans on this site who have made an art of it.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:10 pm
lets assume the ball is just lying there as it is
it is no ruck as no players are on their feet and the ball is not between them
it is a pile up
there is nothing in the laws that prevents a player from playing the ball while lying on the ground in this instance
if it was a tackle the ball is still within one metre off the tackle and nobody on the ground after a tackle can play the ball
if the ball was emerging from the ruck and this player had fallen on it then it is illegal
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:11 pm
This does tend to make the victory a little hollow you have to admit.
This is no 50/50 or maybe decision. Pretty decisive stuff. Does not change the result but the trophy seems a little tainted like the light in the trophy cabinet is broken and so everyone walks past not even noticing it.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Cant really blame walsh as the pic shows he couldnt really see but as the article says one has to question that nz touchie he had a perfect view of that one.
A few things didnt go the sharks way as sometimes happens but the sharks only really have themselves to blame a great try by Albert VDB dont know what some bloggers are talking about double movement there wasnt one he is allowed to place the ball but from steyns missed conversion onward they were terrible this took the game from a position were they should have won comfortably to a stage where one bad decision from the ref cost them the game.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:13 pm
#88 dont talk K@k! Of course they going to notice it, its the bloody Super 14!
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:13 pm
There was a knock on several phases before the Sharks scored much earlier in the game that if pulled up would have meant that they wouldn’t have scored. No one is banging on about that. As a neutral (that wanted a Sharks victory) you have to say that things balanced out overall. Besides that if you look atthe picture, how was the ref supposed to see the knock on – he was unsighted! Get over it.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:14 pm
the bulls did not cheat their way to victory
the sharks lost it for not controlling the ball and bad captaincy
and their hero steyn went from hero to zero in this game and needs to be given a chance to develop.
no disputing his talent but pushing the guy as has been done will only ruin him
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:14 pm
gavin,
you are just used to losing, that’s why! What’s the point of a blog if you can’t debate. Anybody want to move on and not debate, then piss off to another thread.
Supa, i agree calling guys cheats when every guy plays with his in the ruck if he can is over the top. Only people at fault here are the officials.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Build a bridge and get over it.
Just feel sorry for some of the older guys like AJ in particular. Like the muppits say its Rugby. Look at the Heiniken cup final a few years ago when Neil Back tapped the ball out of Peter Stringers hands to cause a tighthead as apposed to the other team having a 5M attacking scrum while only needing 1 score to win the game.
Sharks boys put yourself in a position where you cant lose the game and this wont happen. Even if you had John Smit off the field. AJ is one of our great leaders and Bob was also there surely you dont givee the kick to a guy who just dead ducked 2 drop attempts. They guy is 20. I would have given that Ball straight to Ruan or Butch. Butch hardly misses from that range. Then you also had Ruan who has proven he can do it under pressure.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:18 pm
87- You are not allowed to play the ball at all if you are not on your feet no matter what the situation. You are not even allowed to make a tackle if you are not on your feet
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:19 pm
norman
how did the ball get there … an act of Jaco’s t-shirt? No, a knock-on and that is infringement number 1!
Then you may never playe the ball if you are not on your feet, especially if you are still part of what the referee perceives to be a ruck!
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:19 pm
Beast should have relieved him of his arm. Its ever since rucking is not allowed anymore that things like this happen. Shame on the touch judge!!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:19 pm
All og you missing a big point…..how did the ball get there?
I ask all of you to gan watch that few seconds again…..in the tackle a sharks player was of his feet playing the man and the ball….he then ripped the ball loose…where the bulls player just returnd the ball again….yes playing it when on the ground….but it when both ways….and the sharks then needed to pay first before the bulls……so the bulls needed to win this game
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:20 pm
I’m over it. I’m looking ahead. I see a lot of positives from this year, and can see the Sharks improving even more. I just hope others can get over it too.
Once a Shark, always a Shark!
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Boots
difference is Sharks were already in the lead not with the possibility of winning so the heineken Cup final isn’t much of an example.
Like i say, what’s the point of this site if we must just move on and not debate. Why did you post, why haven’t you just moved on and bought the best of Steve
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Blaah Blaah Blaah. So what the reg was on the wrong side of the ruck. I bet you guys if you go anylise this game @t all the breakdown points you will find that there is one or two situations that wasn’t seen by Mr ref. What about the ruck where the Bulls just needed quick ball and they would have gone scored. that was a professional fowl [ Sure try ] A sure 7 points was then only awaded with 3 >>>>
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:23 pm
In all fairness. The Bulls at that stage had nothing to lose. What was that guy going to do, sit there and stare at the pill lying on the Sharks side of the ruck? And anyway, Walsh was unsighted. This one falls squarely on the TJ.
I think somebody already said it. Spilled milk. Lets have a good Currie Cup campaign and come back next year.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Groen en Goud you are a good example of how a Shark fan should behave.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:26 pm
steyn #98
quite correct then – so the game should have been stopped and the bulls awarded a penalty (infringement either way as you claim). Not enough time for a lineout, not enough points in a kick. Tap and go the best option then.
You can come up with whatever excuse mate, officials made a huge mistake and it probably cost the sharks the title.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:26 pm
Well said 99!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:27 pm
If a picture was released showed a Sharks player doing it would their supporters be making noise ?? Likewise in that scenario would the Bulls fans just say its part of the game ? Food for thought from a bloody rugby genius !
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:29 pm
103
why you here … we should all just post something nice like well done bulls … it will be great site.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Kevin
then it cost the sharks……the cup is in PTA buddy….nothing will change….i was one of the first that said…the bulls had alot of luck…..but luck no luck……die beker is blou
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:29 pm
aah get the F over it. We complained all we wanted in 2005 when Habana was sent of for a kak decision in the CC final but it doesn’t change the fact that everybody now only remembers the CC winners of that year, which was the Cheetahs.
The score’s on the board!!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:30 pm
History will show that the Bulls won the 2007 S14 – so to all anti-bulls, dry your eyes.
If you rewind the entire tape you will notice there were several questionable decisions (as in most rugby games), some went for you and some against. Stop focusing on one desicion. Or better yet, have a look at all the games during the season and see how many doubtful calls went for the Sharks and helped you get a home semi and final.
Be true sportsman and acknoledge that the Sharks got beaten by a champion side!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:30 pm
wow that was fun. like i’ve said many times this week. it is spilled milk. play to the whistle, no whistle means play on. bulls used their chances and it paid off. all the iff’s and buts won’t change a thing
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:31 pm
niceone
depends if it was the last movement of the game and who was in the lead … just a thought from somebody using common sense
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:32 pm
true sportsmen don’t cheat!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Lets Stop Arguing about this ! Lets concentrate on more serious issues like who will Richie McCaw pass the WC trophy to first after he has raised it ?
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:32 pm
I’m nearly over Saturday’s result but I think the Springboks putting 50 points over England will go a long way to curing me. Especially if Habana scores a couple of them.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Horing … just one guy (sportsman) ha ha
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:34 pm
#114 more than likely the nearest policeman.
You aren’t allowed to touch the cup if you get knocked out in the quarters.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:35 pm
People you can rant on what the ref did or did not do but that will not change the result.
Get over it!
The Bulls won and you guys are making such a big deal of a warm up tournament.
Maybe this is your ‘WC’ tournament!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:36 pm
#114 – HAHA ! YA THATS A GOOD ONE ! I have no comeback for that – brilliant !
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:36 pm
Fine, can we have photographic evidence of that “From the Mountain” try from the Sharks, please…..could he do anymore movements on the ground!!???!
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Sorry I meant post #119 to refer to #117 !
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:39 pm
As a Bulls Supporter and this is said especially to Kevin W.
You should have won the game you didn’t get over it as we chatted before the game your team generally chokes like the AB’s and The Sa Cricket Team in WC’s.
I know how it feels as an Sa supporter, I have sympathy.
But whinging about refs does not change the fact you lost. Sorry for You.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Excellent Steyn #108
At least you can admit the Bulls got lucky with getting away with that. Totally agree cup stays in Pta and nothing going to change that. Just debating the picture and the thread, most can’t see that and come back with no better than sore losers, sour grapes and spilt milk … move on, support the boks and give peace a chance!
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:40 pm
In the above photo it would be understandable for steve to have not seen the indiscretion as he is on the other side of the ruck and has a sharks player in the line of sight.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:41 pm
The decisions a team gets in a game is part of the game, both teams got bad an good decisions. The mere fact that this person went trough the footage to find errors (with a very impartial eye I am sure) just proves that the shark supporters are bad losers, or are we going to have the whole game viewed on a frame by frame basis. It is absurd. At the end of the day the points on the board is what counts and no amount of bickering is going to change that .
Tickets R 300.00 , Beer R 800.00 Sharks blaming the ref for their loss priceless
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:42 pm
To pot the lid on the pot… If two teams of equal passion collide, winning means lasting one minute longer. (Taken from the foyer of the ‘Tahs club in Sydney) Which is exactly what the Bulls did, they did not stop playing, whilst the Sharks were waiting for the final whistle…. so be it!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:46 pm
Does everyone then agree that the officials were plain ****.
If the answer is yes then let us all hope we never see them officiating at such a high level game agian.
Imagine if the players wearing Blue were the All Blacks, The Sharks were the Boks and that was the world cup that had been won/lost.
Not funny.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Airwell
and i’ll ask you … what is the point of this website? It’s a place to debate and this thread is about a wrong decision. i’m debating, so best you do the same on the topic or go find a thread that reads sharks are chokers or just get over it, cup is in pretoria. I think some posts had to be removed and people warned if not banned over the Bulls supporters racial insults towards Linston Manuels. Boots on the other foot now mate, all of a sudden a complete about turn on slagging the ref.
The Fish
19-5=14
20-7=13
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:48 pm
boots 95
there is nothing in the laws that states you are not allowed to play the ball while lying on the ground
for example i am on the ground tying up my boot lace and the ball is kicked towards me and i am on the ground i can play it
falling on the ball on the ground is an allowable thing to do provided it is done in context with the provisions of the law
there are far too many laws and hopefully after the world cup simplicity will prevail in the proposed changes
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:52 pm
Thanks niceone, at least SOME humour remains…
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Not all bulls supporters slagged of the ref and all I am saying is debating this is a futile exercise. Any number of calls could have changed the game and the fact remains the Sharks being the best team on day did not close the deal period because they choked.
Please do not generalize about bulls supporters as I do not generalize about Sharks supporters as where I was watching at Outer Limits in Joburg they were real gentleman in defeat unlike you.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:55 pm
norman,
except he is not tying his shoelace, he is part of the ruck… and what, the ball got there through divine intervention? apparently something like that was involved in everything else. even making an arse out of yourself climbing the poles and pulling the sign of the devil (jaco is such a twat)
cheers, out of her, always fun.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:55 pm
DonnerLeeu, as jy weer na die game kyk, let op hoe Steve aan sy oor vat, asof hy luister nie die lynregter, en dan nie die fluitjie blaas nie. Ek dink hy het iets gehoor.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:55 pm
127 bob
you will not see a free flowing game with a poor ref
walsh was good
he should have sent habana to the cooler but that would not have helped the sharks as monty was already hit and him been taken off was possibly for concussion otherwise montys substitution was a mistake
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Kevin W
You shouldn’t complain. If the shoe were on the other foot you would never hear a bulls fan on this site complain! Thank Bulls fans for teaching us all to be humble in victory and gracious in defeat….
PS. There is not an ounce of sarcasim in what I’ve just written.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:03 pm
Bulls were cheated many a time over the last few years, I think it was time for justice, and still it wasn’t Walsh that made way for habana to score a try, that will be remembered in the same way as stransky’s drop goal, it was about ten sharks who missed him completely. In the end it’s what you make of your opportunities.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:03 pm
STOP WHINING.
You are beginning to sound like the Pommes.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:03 pm
kevin w
The purpose of debating is to change or alter decisions or procedure, the fact that there where bad calls in this game if you can call the that (how many of people saw this when watching the game )comes back to the question of should we be using more technology in these games and then how much technology, sure you can feel hard done by if your team gets a bad one but no amount of debate is going to change that .
Are you debating the outcome of the game or are you debating the issue of technology in sport. if it is the latter I will gladly debate this and we aill most probably have the same view but if you are debating the outcome of the final there can be no debate. As it is a fact that the Bulls are the first SA S14 winners and no argument can ever change that.
We can probibly sit here for days on end cmparing all the decisions ever made but isn’t that a bit pointless as it will not influence the results.
To All shark supporters: The Sharks are a very good team and will be for some time to come and it must be heartbreaking losing the HOME FINAL but like one of the guys said “no use in crying over spilt milk “
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:06 pm
135 You have d@@ses from all provinces supporters including the Bulls.
But to whinge is just plain stupid and boring. And probably very Aussie or Pommie. Come on we support the Boks so lets be better than them.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Now show us a picture of Alberts try. I forgot. It will have to be a video as he rolled it forward for about 15 seconds.
Also some forward passes by the Sharkes. Particularly the one in their round robin game against the Saders for their final try. Had they lost that game there season would have fallen apart.
Stop looking for excuses.
Just been on the Sharks site reading some post match comments. Piceless. They sound like halwitted 11 yr olds. I am slowly losing all respect for sharks rugby
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:08 pm
XK
Do you have a copy of the game on DVD.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:10 pm
“They sound like halwitted 11 yr olds.”
That’s a bit rich…..
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Move on fella’s nobody will care or remember who won the Super 14 this year.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Read this, I couldnt stop laughing
******
bloublitz (Witbank) AND
To all the idiots who have a go at South Africans who have returned to Europe:
You have not got a clue! Wake up, your decendants are not exactely “Inboorlinge” from AFRICA you idiots.
The ONLY “Inhabitants” of Southern Africa where the Khio and San people…
No wonder the people can’t just get on with living in the present age in South Africa.
And for your info:
Ek is n Afrikaner van die Trekboer groep families wat op Bloedrivier oorleef het. Noem my maar Piesangboer!
Ek het hier gekom op werkers vakansie en het in Militere Diens gegaan om vrede te bewaar oor die wereld heen in Britse diensplig. Toe het ek n ordentelike Engelse meisie ontmoet in diensplig en getrou, dit sou nogal onredelik & ongeskik wees my Vrou weg te neem van Haar familie… Veral aagesien haar ouers redelik oud en sieklik is met kanker en epilepsie.
Word wakker! Julle is not onbeskof & oordeltrekkend. Dit se niks vir my omtrent julle “uitverkore Volk” se godsdienstige nonsens nie! Gaan dien julle afgod Bakkies en gaan speel saam met Lucifer rugga!
Your personal attacks on Sharks supporters on OUR Blog is just another confirmation of your dispicable, unhonorable & calous behaviour that we have come to expect from arrogant fools. (Please note this does not include the REAL Rugby supporters in the Bulls camp; this is in response to the BULLIES in their midst.)
So gaan speel met julle ballietjies op die “Highway”!
En stop met julle gevloekery hier, daar is kinders wat ONS Blog besoek.
830. Posted by Sharks fan UK (SWINDON, Wiltshire) on Monday, May 21, 2007 – 14:11
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:12 pm
#128 —– 20-7 = 13 . Now wht you do is , you substract that penalty that Liefling got over for hands in the ruck right on the try line , where the Bulls would have scored a for sure try. That makes the score 14- 10 to the Sharks and you ad either 5 points for just the try or 7 for the try and the coneversion and the score is still 15 or 17 to the Bulls and 14 to the Sharks .
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:12 pm
You can go get all the pictures that you want.
At the end of it all it is just one thing that maters and that is the scoreboard that said
Bulls 20-19 Sharks. To go on about this is useless. To say the Sharks are the best SA side is
sour grapes. They are very good but in the end not good enough. So put a sock in it and lets focus on the Bokke.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:13 pm
Airwell, no. I am sure some one does.
Something to say feather?
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:14 pm
NZinchina
Do you think this year that NZ is going to choke in The Super 14, Tri Nations as well as the normally do in the WC.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:14 pm
He even calls Bakkies a god
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:16 pm
” The ONLY “Inhabitants†of Southern Africa where the Khio and San people…”
Do you think he meant Keo instead of khio. Or is it Khoi
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:17 pm
147 not much, but judging on some of the stuff you’ve been posting here recently, I hardly think you’re in much of a position to accuse people of sounding like halfwitted 11 year olds.
Your stuff has hardly been the makings of higher intelligence.
What’s the point in insulting someone for what they write on this blog? Everyone is entitled to an opinion without having to be abused for it. Especially when you don’t even talk about the game or the point in question.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:18 pm
Keo stop being pathetic and pedantic. The referee is human too. Are you perfect?
I thought Steve Walsh had a great game, and is definitely one of the better refs out there.
If you want to blame someone then blame Steyn. Missing a conversion from in front, missing touch as well as two shocking drop goals attempts.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:19 pm
… plus Steve missed the obstruction infringement of Habana as he set off on that final try scoring run …
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Airwell, how many Super titles has SA won?
How many Tri Nations has SA won?
How many World Cup has SA won?
Happy to concede we choked in 99/03 but lets have a discussion about Bokke rugby in the last 10 years it shouldn’t take too long?
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Such as feather our learned friend? I suppose you have been a bubbling spring of interesting, informative and sensible information and posts.
You must be a sharks supporter
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:23 pm
I think I must start watching women tennis.Rugby is becoming to difficult to understand.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:24 pm
you okes till fighting over spilt milk.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Habana should have got a yellow and bakkies aswell for his dangerous high tackle on bismarck, both are rules not decisions Welsh had to make, 20 minutes with 14 men would have changed the game, it shouldn’t have even come to the knock-on shocker
or Steyn’s missed touch.
Hopefully the Currie Cup Final can be decided by a refing f**k up between the Bulls and Sharks. Love to hear their opinion then.
Don’t hate the player hate the game…
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:26 pm
i knew this was going to happen the minute i saw the bulls player cheating. the sharks would be whinging till next years s14. i don’t know what is worse their whinging or the bulls bragging.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:26 pm
155 your memory is short clearly.
At least I try to comment sensibly on the topic at hand without dragging people’s characters down as a last resort in failed wit because of which team they support. Let it go dude!
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:27 pm
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:28 pm
only so much can be said on the topic dude. I will be sure to make an effert to go and read your sensible comments again.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:31 pm
do you smell that ?????????????????
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:31 pm
So wheres the pic of Alberts try?????????????????
One sided views are useless
Steve has always been a pathetic ref although he seems like a nice chap.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:32 pm
must be sour shark !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:32 pm
Airwell one other question, when did the Bokke last win in NZ? mate its not called choking they just wern’t good enough,like us at the 99/03 World cups end of story.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:32 pm
( Dont read faether)
This guys name says it all. He should stay of the malpitte.
******
These dumbass bulletjies have got nothing better to say!!! shows how low their IQ is! Admit it idiots- the only way your team knows how to win is to play dirty (and to perhaps make a kind payment to the ref). Sharks are the true champs- they know how to play within the law. haha well what do you expect- this is South Africa where criminals get away with everything, and the Bullshitters prove me correct
704. Posted by Mal 01 (Richards Bay) on Sunday, May 20, 2007 -
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:32 pm
What have the Sharks and Man United in common??
They are both wingers..
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:33 pm
China
Lets discuss it if we had agreed to take part in Super 14 or Tri Nations you wouldn’t have made enough money to enter the professional era as the real money in these competitions are here in SA as we have the supporter base. We agreed to go across time lines to play you in both Comps. You have never won a WC with us playing.
Anymore you want to discuss Choker supporter?
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Maybe he was paid
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:35 pm
But we still respect the rivalry
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Andre they offered him a couple of hours with the Bulls Babes
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:37 pm
Sharks Fan UK again.
Hy kan die britte vergewe maar nie die Bulle nie.
******
Scarface (Johannesburg)
Moenie vergeet nie ou perd: Die eerste klomp trekboere het op die ou ende in Natal gevestig, jy weet die sterker meer volwasse Voortrekkers.
Mag ek ook op die stadium vir jou noem dat my familie deur die geveg van Bloedrivier oorleef het, dat ek spyt is oor die fyt dat na die Zulu impies verslaan is dat saar n kommando uitgestuur is om seker te maak dat hulle sou weg bly, maar dat ek nie n rasis is nie, en my broeders in die Zulu nasie vergewe het wat my voorouers wou vermoor het.
Ja dit is darem maar swak dat julle soort nog op die Boereoorlog lewe. Ek se weer hier dat ek die Britte ook vergewe het vir knonsentrasie kampe.
Onthou dat die Afrikaners ook nie sonder foute is nie, dit blyk hier vir my dat die wat in Pretoria gebly het baie meer probleme behou het uit die verlede…
696. Posted by Sharks fan UK (SWINDON, Wiltshire) on Sunday, May 20
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:38 pm
167# i reckon u should stay off the malpitte
“sharks are true champs”
Maybe a psychiatrist can help?
Reality denialist
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Xkreni, you are taking things out of context. The Sharks site is a more moderate site and quite obviously the sentiment will be pro-sharks.
If you have a beef with the guy, take it up with him but don’t generalise or patronise the Sharks supporters as a whole. Most of the sharkies on this site took the loss graciously.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Die ou het duidelik bietjie skade oorgehou van bloedrivier af. Wonder of ‘n zoeloe hom met ‘n assegaai teen die kop geklap het
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:39 pm
This is not so easy. I went back and re-looked at the incident. The photo shown is very carefully chosen. My version is as follows: Thiart (lying on the ground) got tackled and had the ball on his chest. A Sharks player, who in the photo is out of sight behind the rightmost Bulls player, but who could have been Bismarck du Plessis, came in and knocked the ball out of Thiart’s hand, making it roll the way it did. Thiart then reaches for it, but it’s inconclusive whether he got it or not. Kuhn then goes for the ball, which is then kept in the ruck for a while, comes out for Heinie Adams, and everyone knows the rest.
Keo, why don’t you publish the rest of the pics as well? A snapshot of a dynamic situation does not prove anything. Exactly which direction was the ball rolling? Did Thiart get hold of it? His arm is stretched out quite far, and the ball was still rolling when he reached for it.
Interestingly, all talk of a knock-on seems to have disappeared, because those who saw the pics could see that du Plessis in fact knocked the ball out of Thiart’s hands. Is that not maybe illegal? Just asking…
Come on, Keo, show us the rest of the pics.
H-J
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Change your name to Xkreni-WP&SHARKS
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:40 pm
“Richard Young, who sent the clip, writes (sic)
Dear Country People
I only watched the last three minutes of the main game on Saturday afternoon for reasons that might have been deduceable on Sunday.”
What’s that all about?
Is this THE Richard Young who this Sunday exposed Chippy Shaik’s Ph.D as a fraud and at whose name crooked politicians run for cover.
If it is he – you are a REAL South African hero.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:40 pm
I know sampioen. I have no beef. It is just very funny.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:41 pm
ATTENTION BLUE BULLS FANS
To all Blue Bulls fans complaining that Sharks supporters are nothing more than whingers, please see some of our comments (see my first comment in this thread). The people complaining speak the loudest so they get the most attention, my mates and myself are over it now and just want to see the Sharks learn from the mistakes at the end of the game.
BUT!! You should be slightly objective in this because pretty soon the shoe is going to be on the other foot whether it is against the Bulls or the Boks. I would hope that not one of you will ever complain about a referee decision again. If you have complained in the past then you know who you are. So, debate the referees decision, or don’t, but if you choose not to, just remember to stick to that same decision next time a call goes against you. This thread will remind us who those people are.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:41 pm
he should have been guided by the tj. he wasn’t!
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:43 pm
I should Bob. If I could I would
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:47 pm
By the way, the whole choker theme is old. If the Sharks won, would the Bulls suddenly be chokers because they couldn’t pull it through in the knock out stages for a third year?
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Someone told me this on Sunday already. So it’s the truth , i have seen it with my own two eyes. Sharks have won the game
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:49 pm
hjk
If I rip the ball from you and you loose it forward it counts as a knock!!!! You make the handling error!!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:51 pm
XK
What do you add after the Sharks- the Lions then the Cheetahs. Thank heaven the Lion Cup days are gone-imagine your nick then…
Xkreni-WP&SHARKS&CHEETAHS……&…VERE NOOORD….&STELLALAND.
No wonder Steve sings about “die hele bloody spul”
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:51 pm
hjk
Is there anyway I can get a copy of the game on DVD from you
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:53 pm
And people call us Kiwis ‘whingers’ who cant take defeat like men ! Ha ! I guess we now have competition. Goodness sakes , I say forget about it. Super 14’s come and go ! Theres always next year Sharkies boys !
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:55 pm
184 yes the Bulls would be chokers.
But they won and the Sharks and AB’s in WC are the the real Chokers.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:56 pm
188 Airwell – I’ll try to write a DVD (or two) and see what I can do. What’s your email address?
186 – And if the ball goes forward from you? The ball seemed pretty much to roll sideways, from what I can recall. Anyway, Bismarck did NOT rip the ball from Thiart, his left arm knocked it out of Thiart’s grasp. Difference.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:56 pm
This article is a bit idiotic. That is by no means the only refereeing mistake in the game, or the tournament. Albert van de Berg’s try should not have been allowed, and neither should Kevin Mealamu’s try.
But at the end of the day, the Sharks have only themselves to blame. For heaven’s sake, haven’t we beaten to death the mistakes the Sharks made in the last minutes that cost them the game. The players made far more mistakes than the referee.
Ultimately the Bulls deserve to win for showing greater composure.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Bob, like I always say. Eers ‘n Bul dan ‘n Bok
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:56 pm
the sharks not only are losers and chokers but whingers as well. pathetic to say the least. i’ve lost respect. at least the stormers are only losers hehe
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:57 pm
leon@airwell.co.za
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:58 pm
Niceone, I think they are scared it will be another 100 years before they win a trophy (apart from B division) It has been 11 already
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:59 pm
Last one I promise. I think I am going to copy all his comments and publish a book.
sleeric (PMB)
Absolutely! I am the most proud of the Sharks team and management I have ever been! They have outperformed themselveswith a team that is in it’s infancy.
As for plyaers being bought into Natal….
It does say something for the clubs that release them, now doesn’t it; eh?
I realy enjoyed Butch’s tackle, at first I thought it was a but iffy; but on replaying it I knew he was not fowl in his tackle,it was just a combination of Du Preez’s speed and Butch’s power & tenacity!
Butch did well to keep his temper in check,I always have concern about him in that way but he has HUGELY impoved his self control & discipline. It is a shame Balkkies Botha still has issues, he will need to sort that out before the England game.
Steyn is not to blame by himself, if Percy was not stunned & dazed he may well have slotted one of the penalties or conversions that was missed…
They should have benched himearlier. Everybody could see he was not himself. Poor Francois is only a young lad and should not have been given the choice; John should have taken his responsiblity as Captain (Democracy can be a bad thing) and made the decision to use a well experienced International like Butch to kick the conversion.
Yes experience was lacking for Francios, but let us be truthful, he played a great game and added to our strenghts morethan our weaknesses.
sharkfanatic (cork)
The fewer player are spent on the Springboks the better. The Springboks will be ruined by the negative play of the Bulls players like Bakkies Botha whose attitude really stinks.
candyman
Jy is Godslaterlik (Ek raak nou baie gewoond aan dit, die godsdienstiges van Pretoria het GEEN geloof in God nie -Nes hulle span), mag die Here jou spaar op die Dag van oordeel perd!
Do you know I thought I had gone deaf coz I never heard the hooter, and I had rereun the game a few times…
Francois did his best just like the whole team, which is more than we can say of the Bulls and their supporters that ry to slag us off.
IGNORE ALL THEIR COMMENTS …
628. Posted by Sharks fan UK (SWINDON, Wiltshire) on Sunday, May 20, 2007 – 18:26
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:59 pm
My main problem with this article is that it uses one carefully chosen photo to “prove” a point that is under dispute. The fact that the situation is a dynamic situation with lots of people moving around means that one photograph proves nothing. More sinisterly, one photograph could be used to prove whatever the wielder thereof wants to prove. What’s the agenda behind this? Who stands to gain from it? Come on, Keo, show us the other pics…
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:59 pm
#192 – Well said .
Didnt Kipling say :
IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you…you’ll be a man my son ?
Pertinent in this regard !
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Martin FSteyn is the King choker
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Martin
But you get whinger Bulls too remember the CC finals.
You win some you loose some but whinging is for pommies and Aussies
Agree with XK eers a bull dan a bok.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:01 pm
#196 – Ah I see !
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Maybe Sharks fan UK (SWINDON, Wiltshire), will blame Bakkies and say Steyn choked on his horing
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:03 pm
Saffa – Comment #14 , Yes I would have loved for Habs to be suspended for that tackle , it was stupid and very dangerous , Monty could have had very serious injury and Habs needed to be taught a lesson in dicipline. Look I like the oke but what if Habs now tries that in a test match or worse in the WC final , would u like it if SA plays the ABS for 78 mins minus a winger in a final ? Habs was a *** and yes he got away with it but he remains a *** for that k@k cowardly tackle.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:03 pm
how does that wonder bra joke go?…it’s called the sharks bra…all the support and no cup…something like that hehe
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:04 pm
X – Steyn just turned 20 , he will learn from that. Remember Hougard in 2003 ? He matured a hell of a lot since then
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:06 pm
Sparticus, At least Hougaard won a Cup at 19
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:06 pm
#204 – Ya I just watched a clip of that tackle and it deserved action definitely. BUT when it is all said and done , the Loftus faithful will forget that part and immortalize ‘flying Bryan’ for his winning try ! All I can say is if he tries to pull asimilar stunt against the ABs, he is cruising for a bruising !
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:08 pm
Nicone
I also think it was not intentional but I am sure Bakkies and Pakslae will look after their mate against the best the AB’s can muster.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Each team could keep the trophy for six months and they could engrave on the side of it ‘2007-the Shulls’ or ‘2007-the Burks’.
Or someone to invent a time machine.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Serious bru ? Maybe but I reckon one clap from Lauaki or Collins and Bakkies would cry like a dog ! HAHA ! Wow that would be a rumble hey ?
On a happier note , those Bulls and Sharks girls are hot !!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:12 pm
After reading the all above ….
The Bulls won, and that is it!!
Even Keo predicted this at the start of the Super 14.
May the others rest in peace. It was not only the Sharks that were brilliant on the day, please just remind your self that they could not score at random. The Bulls were sound on defence throughout the whole game!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:14 pm
The Bulls won it fair and square. No need to share. Seems like all teams in black always have excuses of payoff, suzie etc
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:14 pm
#212 – Yes thats it Oblix. I agree. I am a Crusaders fan but realize that crying is not going to change anything. One must show respect to the champs and Bulls are champions 2007 end of story ! Next year will they do it again though ?
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:14 pm
i have never seen Steve Walsh have a good game as a referee, he is f*cken hopeless and yes
i agree 100% the Sharks have only themselves to blame.
He gave Alberts try as well, what an idiot
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:15 pm
#213 – Hope there is no hinting at the AB’s there mate ! We never have an excuse !
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:16 pm
no, suzie and the gold rolex is real
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Niceone
I agree Maybey the sharks should have let Steve spend a couple of hours with their girls and who knows
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:16 pm
This whingeing is piss willy tame compared to that spewed by the Bulls after the small misinterpretation made by Linston Manuals.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Ya Suzy is as real as water or any tangible substance. She better not go to France !
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:19 pm
#218 – For sure mate !
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Niceone you Kiwi’s have a knack of making us whinge.
Are mr Walsh and his officials getting any flak in NZ.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:20 pm
#219 – Oh yeah I remember that ! But again mate why scratch at scars ? Worry about the real and forthcoming threat of the future WC champs , the ABs !
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:22 pm
#222 – Not really mate . Havent seen or heard anything besides very general statements . I think because it had no direct bearing on us we dont really care. However any bad reffing is not good for rugby as a whole
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:23 pm
216 And you never mentioned the gold watch and Suzie
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:24 pm
Keo,
How can you focus on an individual incident and say that it cost the game?
Every game of rugby is full of decisons that go either way, if you are good enough you will dominate and win. If teams are evenly matched then many facters can contribute to deciding the game.
I am shocked that this sort of article would appaer on a site like this. I really expected more
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:24 pm
Tacitus
Jy is n ****** groot bek.
How many weeks did you guys whine about the Linston Manuels incident?
And NO the best team did not win on the day you wop
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:26 pm
219 Like I said earlier you have D@@ses on all sides Whinging is for Pommies and Aussies not South Africans and Niceone hopefully not Kiwis.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Judging by the politics going on in SA Rugby these days, I am surprised Origen Hoskins, (being a Sharky himself) havent conspired with the Stofile brothers to try and overruled the result. The Bulls are persieved to be the all white afrikaans broederbond union and it appears the Stofiles are on a mission to show the “whities” who is in charge of SA rugby and Origen Hoskins is too spineless to stand up for what is best for the game. If it was any another team that speared the Sharks it might have gone down a bit easier.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:27 pm
Chch
Could not agree more
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:28 pm
Rebcraig
Refer comment 228 especially the part about being a D@@s.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:30 pm
I don’t think we can lay too much blame on steve for this one. look at where he stands, he can’t see the ball. who should have seen was the tj. why didn’t he call it? maybe a bulls fan wipped out her cajunes for him when it occured?
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:31 pm
#228 and #225 – Aw , mate we have had some dubious moments . I like to think that we Kiwis are gracious in defeat . The Suzy story will be one of those debatable topics ! Hopefully we have passed the need to have any fake excuses.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:34 pm
After the Semis I have the utmost respect for the Kiwi sides not one blamed the travelling and said the better team won.
Maybey the Sharks supporters should learn from this.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:35 pm
227 – slight difference between the Walsh incident and the Manuels incident. Manuels was the TMO. He had all the time in the world to watch, rewind, watch again, get another angle, etc. and still he gets it wrong. In the first place, he sees a knock-on that wasn’t there, then his prescribed course of action was way off, for a knock on. Remember – he ordered a 22m dropout, which should have been a 5m scrum assuming it WAS a knock-on.
Walsh’s “mistake” (which I dispute was one) at least occurred in real time.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:38 pm
235 But the Waratas still won end of story Manuels is a bad ref. But to slit your wrists not going to help anything its history.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:39 pm
#234 – Yeah Airwell its cos its the honest truth. The truth is that we were soundly beaten by better teams. We only had our own weaknesses and failings to blame as well as the superior play of the other two SA teams. It would not be professional or sportsmanlike to cry and whinge like a baby .
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:41 pm
237 Niceone something like some of the Sharks supporters.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Martin,
If you call the Bulls cheaters, then you imply ALL rugby player are cheaters. Even the SHARKS!!
The Bulls player clearly disobeyed the rules, but that does not make him a cheater. Why are penalties given? Because players disobey the rules, not because they cheat…
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Have a go at this. After applauding AB sportsmanship I just saw a story wherby Sean Fitzpatrick said the poms won’t win the WC because they are a “bunch of fatties…” !
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:43 pm
chch
in die kol
Ek het nie van een van die sharks ouens gehoor to hulle die game teen die saders gewen het nie , nie een het oor die swak beslising gepraat of fotos in gestuur , somige van die shark ouens is net suur en swak verloorders mens sou sweer hulle het al iets gewen die laaste 11 jaar soos wat hulle aan gaan. hoe durf `n span wat al die laaste 3 jaar domineer in SA hulle wen. Die Bulle is die BESTE en die troefee kas bewys dit . waar kom hulle vandaan om te se die sharks is die beste span, wat het hulle al die laaste eeu beryk?
shut up en gaan maak wyn van al daai suur druiwe miskien kan julle dan beter argumente maak.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:44 pm
#238 – I dont like pointing fingers but yup.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:44 pm
Fitzie can be very observant sometimes
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:44 pm
Well done to the Bulls. To their fans – please ignore all the negative comments from the Sharks supporters and enjoy the win.
This is the way the game is, was and always will be – one day the ball bounces for you and other times not.
The record books will forever show that the Bulls were the 2007 S14 champs and that is all that matters.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:46 pm
#243 – Haha . He further added :
“Maybe in England they’ve enjoyed talking about being world champions for too long and have been going backwards in the process.”
“You won’t win anything with a bunch of fatties,”
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:47 pm
#244 – Yes Polar Lion that is an astute comment . This debate really is dead .
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Xkreni
What’s the point of going onto the Sharks site and posting some stupid comments … there are probably lots of very balanced comments there. Sad.
We could all just go into the archive of this site and find some ridiculous halfwit Bulls statements. Argue the thread, argue the topic but playing paste the post, it’s so cool is a bit childish.
Does Steve Komphela speak on behalf of all South Africans …
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:50 pm
245 we will see first in SA in the next 2 weeks.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:51 pm
233# the kiwi players and coaches are humble in defeat, their supporters are pathetic in defeat,
dont suppose you are a player niceone?
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Bluerugga
Explain the similarity between the Crusaders game and saturday. One the ref fucked up, the other one the players fucked up.
Stop trying to disguise the fact that the ref made a crucial mistake.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:52 pm
I will remember all these comments from Bulls supporters next time they call Kaplan a cheat…
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:52 pm
BLUERUGGA
Exactly what bad decission are you on about in the Sharks / Crusaders game.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:53 pm
YAWN!!!!! Geez okes, get over it already.
Has anyone noticed that the sun is shining?
Just thought I’d ask…
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:53 pm
Hullo Kevin Whinger
When are you going to slit your wrists because the Sharked choked and you blame the Ref
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:54 pm
#249 I can neither confirm or deny that I am a player at this time.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Airwell
you saying the ref’s call had nothing to do with the outcome … admit that to me and i’ll shut up! See if you can put your money where your airhole is
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:56 pm
kevin w
BobZimmerman
Nope sorry to tell you this Kevin but the sharks f uped the game all on their own ,inexperiance lost them the game .
Bob, my point exactly you did not see the crusader fans carry on like this , atleast they have a bit of class
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:56 pm
#256 – Thats unfair on Airwell , Kev. Its a very subjective question.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:56 pm
PA
Remember this all teams have some supporters who are D@@ses but the Sharks are taking one incident to the extreme. Even **** complimented the ref.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Look, give Steve a break. He doesn’t get to blow a super14 final often. The kiwis are always in it so he’s normally at home driking beer.
He probably did it to the Sharks on purpose because they made him travel…hehehehe!!!
C’mon guys. The earth is still turning.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:59 pm
kevin w
BobZimmerman
what has your great team done in the last decade??????????
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Kevin Whinger
I will admit that all decisions or non decisions the ref makes have a baring on the outcome of a match. Now can we talk about who should be in the team.
BTW Congrats on your team topping the log.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Air,
No doubt – but most of the time it is also a case of when the shoe fits.
I though Walsh had a good game.
For a final with that intensity he did a great job of trying to get the game to flow – hell we saw 4 tries in this match.
He missed a lot too – both ways, but that is part and parcel of rugby.
Again for me it is a case of when the shoe fits – remember all the Bulls comments in 2005 after the Currie Cup?
Same thing, different game.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:00 pm
BOK TEAM ANYONE?
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:00 pm
niceone
then he should think twice about saying i’m whinging and suggest i slit my wrists…
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:01 pm
#264 – think it only gets announced tomorrow
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:01 pm
from that picture one could deduce that the player in question went down with the ball and was in the process of placing it back when the picture was taken. i’d hardly call it evidence.
lol
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:02 pm
Agree PA
But thats history and whinging won’t change the result.
All the Bulls Fans who whinged you are the same as a Pommie or an Aussie.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:02 pm
You know what it is. Blind dissapointment. The Sharkie fans had visions of Smit lifting the trophy as they drank all that beer they bought and ate all that biltong. They saw it as destiny and the media hyped it up so much and they were convinced. When the Bulls arrived and crushed that dream they performed the normal human function , look for a scapegoat. Its all in ecology .
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:02 pm
kevin w, please go get a cuppa or something bru. You’re going to do yourself some damage.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Cmm
Who would you put in the team?
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:04 pm
#265 – fair enough call mate.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:05 pm
Airwell,
Have I missed one of your posts or are you asking me for a team?
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:05 pm
255# ok then i take it your a supporter cos the players arent that confused
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:05 pm
Shot Air, agree totally.
To all Sharks boys – I think you dominated and chucked it.
To all Bulls boys credit where credit is due – you stuck it out and kept yourself in with a chance – and it came.
Anyone saying the Bulls dont deserve it is a fool.
Anyone saying the Sharks were the worse team on the day is also a fool.
It was a great final – celebrate the rugby and lets move on.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:05 pm
guys guys come on now..games over, trophys gone and nothing we can do..we living in a new south africa..theft,crime,robbery and cheating happening every day..we just got to accept it..thieves get caught but get away scott free..Walsh fucked up bad and hes free..accompice bulls are also free with the bouty..just accept it..but remember what goes around comes around..live by the sword and die by the sword!!
Justice will prevail!
ps lets all who were at ground and who witnessed the cheating make a police report!!(bet they will be bought off too)
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:07 pm
Kevin W
The Bulls won…get over it.
For years you have been posting how stupid and slow the Bulls are.
Well,boy…they only had to be smarter and faster for 2 minutes to beat your soft-**** characterless chokers.And, the most talented player SA has seen in the past 5 years,apparently(Steyn),showed true Sharks credentials and choked not ONCE,but TWICE….in the same game….how wierd is THAT?
And they will continue to beat them again and again just like it has always been for the past 100years.
Bulls…22 or so CC’s
……..1 S14 C
Sharks…3 CC’s
………0 S14’s
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:07 pm
Yes Cmm who would you put in the bok team
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:08 pm
#274 – Hey mate as I said I cant say anything . I wont not say that I am a player nor a fan .
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:09 pm
I’ve never once said that the Sharks (steyn) never screwed up. But they did enough to still manage to keep the Bulls out.
Unfortunately the ref / tj missed a crucial infringement at a time of the game when there was no way for the Sharks to rectify it. Every other refereeing error left time for the other team to overcome the obstacle. Not the final one in extra time when the Sharks were leading.
So crucify me / call me a whinger for stating the facts or the game as i see it. That’s what makes this site what it is anyway. Imagine if everyone agreed. That’s my last take on it.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:10 pm
Bulls vs Sharks,
Easy game – even away!
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Airwell,
1. Guthro
2. Smit
3. BJ
4. Bakkies
5. Victor
6. Schalk
7. Juan
8. AJ(like Spies, but he’s young and AJ’s in better form)
9. Ruan (Fourie is injured)
10. Butch
11. Habana
12. De Villiers
13. Murray (we won’t have a better time to see what he can do)
14. JP (Akona is JP doesn’t recover)
15. Percy
doubt there’s many surprises there.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:12 pm
Thank God Kevin
My team for Saturday
BJ
Smit
Guthro
Bakkies
Victor
Schalk
AJ
Spies
Pienaar
Liefling
WO
Murray
Ashwin
Habana
Percy
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:12 pm
cmm I think Juan is injured
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:13 pm
forgot about ashwin.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:14 pm
Well done St Pete, the Bulls have a very proud record. Give yourself a pat on the back or bang your head into the door, whatever you guys do.
And don’t cheer when that youngster knocks over a mostrous drop goal for the boks.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:14 pm
The Boks could field :
15 – Andre Joubert
14 – James Small
13 – Japie Mulder
12 – Hennie Le Roux
11 – Pieter Hendriks
10 – Naas
9 – Werner Swanepol
And whoever the hell they like as forwards ( even Paarl Boys maybe) and still kick the **** out of this half – *** team of poms.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:14 pm
airwell, well in that case spies must play 8. With AJ and 7. I agree.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:17 pm
Kevin W
After reading 277 I think I understand why you have been posting those unkind things for so many years.You must have pissed on his battery somewhere, sometime in history.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:17 pm
cmm De villiers also injured.
So only real difference is Flyhalf.
Only reason I want to try Liefling is to see what he has at this level because both Butch and AP are injury prone. Good game to test him.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:20 pm
#277 “soft-**** characterless chokers”
Yeah man your such a big toss arent you!, they’d pummel your little pantoffel pansy arse into oblivion, hahaha…tell us another gem you soft-**** blogger, and thats a fact! PS dont bother responding you vitriolic little unknowledgable pooftah!
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:22 pm
cmm, bugger well then I suppose WO is the next best 12 option.
Probably not a bad game to try Hougaard. I think he’s a good flyhalf for northern hemisphere rugby, so I hope he goes to the WC.
Would love to know what Jake’s plans for Steyn are. If handled properly and given some good game time off the bench he could be a long term solution.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:23 pm
sorry, airwell – #292 was meant for you.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:27 pm
I think he is also but we must bring him in slowly like the AB’s did with Carter where he started at inside centre.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:28 pm
airwell, good point. So then maybe he should play at 12 this weekend ?
) Why wait?!?
we know what WO can do.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:29 pm
Why not give him a go.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:29 pm
KEO
YOU ARE ******* STUPID.
WHAT ABOUT THE MISTAKES THAT THE SHARKS MADE AND GOT AWAY WITH. FIRST OF ALL, ALBERT VD BERGH’S TRY WAS NO TRY. THERE WAS ALSO A KNOCK INVOLVED FROM THE SHARK PLAYERS WHILE THE REF WAS PLAYING ADVANTAGE FOR THEM. I CAN ALSO SEND YOU VIDEO CLIPS.
THE BULLS HAVE WON IT FAIR AND SQUARE, FACE IT YOU LITTLE **** FACE
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:32 pm
kevin w
you must be joking
“I’ve never once said that the Sharks (steyn) never screwed up. But they did enough to still manage to keep the Bulls out”
obviously they didn’t keep the bulls out otherwise we would not be having this “debate”
besides 1X intercept try and 1X carry over try vs 2 tries from play , yes the sharkies looked better on the day but even on a bad day the bulls still won the game. I know it is hard to accept but the sharks lost. just like they have been doing for the past decade.
so stop embarrassing you fellow shark supporters and shut up your just rambling on and on and on .
by the way you still haven’t answered my previous question
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:33 pm
Can someone positively prove that it wasn’t hands in the ruck and/or not rolling away that made the ball go out of the ruck. As I saw it, thiart went into the ruck, the tackler didn’t roll away which helped the 3rd person to use hands. There was definitely no knock-on! The player of the sharks who used his hands may have had a second atempt at stealing the ball after the second bulls player came into the ruck, which is illegal. Can someone look at the tape and correct me.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Skabenga…aka…Fuzzy Bear aka….short stack
Sharks lost because they where stupid, how funny is THAT?!?!?
Stupid, characterless and aparently leaderless for letting the youngest of the lot take the most crucial kick. WHAT exactly was Muir thinking(if he was thinking at all)????
Probably too busy shaking hands and slapping Plumtree on the back for a great 79 minutes.
Note to self…..the game is only over when the ref blows the final whistle.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:36 pm
241 BLUERUGGA,
I can only read English or Tagalog unfortunitly. Can you repost?
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:38 pm
300 agree with STB
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:41 pm
From planet-rugby’s brickbats and bouquets:
Big Match Temperament award: The Bulls needed 20 points from their last four matches, needed to beat the Reds by 72 points and needed to beat the defending champion Crusaders in the semi-final. 1,2,3 all achieved with minimum fuss, and then, six points down with a minute to go in the final…
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:41 pm
Note to self…..do not finish top of the log, my players can’t handle the pressure of playing a final at home.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:42 pm
Doosdief,hou op kak praat.skruk wakker uit jou babbelas.Albert se drie was ‘n drie,gaan kyk maar weer.en Habana moes ‘n ****** rooie gekry het.En cheers anyway vir die sharks nie ,so my opinie is neutraal.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:42 pm
BobZimmerman, Kevin W,
I think that the worst decision in the Sharks Crusaders game was one that has always been a pet hate of mine. When a player knock the ball on the air but it has not hit the ground they should be treated as being in posesion of the ball. You should be able to tackle them.
If you could not tackle them then you can simpley throw the ball forward and catch it again as an anti-tackle tactic.
Some refs call this a tackle without the ball. That is just silly
The decison did change the initial momentum but the Crusaders lost becasue the other team was better. Team decide games not referees
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:43 pm
#299 blou masjien
go look at it again in slow mow and ull see the knock folowed by playing the ball back on ground in to the ruck followed by playing the ball in ruck when off feet..all by bulls
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Note to self…..pretty rugby does not win finals, points on the board does.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:44 pm
Note to self…buy new lap-top to help me store and remember all these notes to myself.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Die sharks is in die hol genaai,en die bulls het gewen.Maar dis nou verby.Kan ons asseblief ****** aanbeweeg,want dit raak nou baie irreterend om op die site te kom en dan herkou ons nog aan die saga.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:46 pm
I was just referring to the sharks saders game played, and the fact that that game was not viewed frame by frame because the sharks won , proving that they are bad losers and that the sader fans have class.
The sharks have not won anything for the last decade so I don’t understand why they are upset did they really expect to win. still they say the sharks is the best team but the trophy cabinet says otherwise , they should go and make wine with all those sour grapes maybe they will be able to make better arguments
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:46 pm
St.Petersburgbok
note to yourself
**** off
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:47 pm
Note to self…..Polly needs chill-pills and a sharkgirl BJ after every loss.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:48 pm
309 St. Ptersburgbok,
I think that the Brumbies victory over the Saders showed that negative rugby can win any game. Not good for bonus points though
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:49 pm
wow so much bad language. classy .
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:51 pm
and agreeing fully with you r previous post to KEO
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:53 pm
297 Doosdiefdrieduisend,
I thought that when I posted in 226 I may be in trouble with Keo. Thanks for taking the heat off me
Looks like you posted under an alternate log in (AKA Tackler style)
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:58 pm
learn the rules before you speak, Albert’s try was a try. Its only double movement if you move your whole body but you are allowd to go down and then place just like in a ruck.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:01 pm
I’m a Sharks fan, and whilst I think they deserved to win because they were the better team on the day, and during the tournament on a whole, I don’t think you can take anything away from the Bulls.
They won. Yes the ref might have had a schoolboy by missing that knock on/penalty, but then was Albert’s try really a try?
The Sharks have had some luck of their own this season, like against the Blues away, so I reckon this time they were on the receiving end.
The main thing is a South African team won, and the final, whilst not technically good, was still an excellent showpiece showing a lot of the pros of our Rugby.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:03 pm
There was double movement in Albert’s try. He shook his head up & down twice to confirm it’s a try!
He’s only allow to shake his head once!
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:03 pm
Even if albert’s try wasn’t a try the sharks would have still been in the lead and bulls would have still have to score points after the hooter to win.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:19 pm
318 Axel,
Not sure if that is right becasue the ball was already on the ground before the try line. Anyone?
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:23 pm
297# DDD
Jy moet ophou daai kak rook, jy gaan vrek jong!
Sit neer daai zol en slaap.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:26 pm
The Keywords are “PLACE THE BALL”….. not “ROLL THE BALL”….
The Splitpin v/ d Berg try happened 20 m right in front of my eyes, in other words I was way better sighted than the Ref. V/d Berg went down about 25 cm short with the ball then proceeded to ROLL the ball over the tryline…… so he did’nt place the Ball….
Anyway, it’s a fact acompli, the try was awarded, as was Habana’s!
Well done Sharks, well done Bulls….. the Cup is in Pretoria for a year!
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:29 pm
Eienaardige Bul-ondersteuners hier vanaand.
Heng, Doosdief 3000…
Is dit n nuwe promosiedeur Steyn’s Ford in Proesstraat Pta?
Dit is nou vir jou n ding.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:29 pm
chch,
The laws are not clear on specific grounding of the ball.
It does say however that the tackled player is allowed to place the ball in any direction (on or over the goal line) after being tackled providing he does so immediately.
So according to the laws the ball is not dead once a tackled player is tackled with the ball touching the ground which means he is then not allowed to place it. He can place it after being tackled (grounded or not) but he must do so immediately.
Law 15 (g)
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Eish Pietman
Hier is ‘n paar eienaardige karakters op hierdie site deesdae.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Pietman,
Jy mag maar slaap broer… of het Pampoentjie jou uitgeskop?
Dis forrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrkennnnnnnnnn brrrrrrrrrrr koud hier!
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:31 pm
GBS,
The laws also states that a tackled player may role the ball in any direction after being tackled…
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Except forward…
As a matter of interest, a double movement is only a double movement once a player uses his arms or legs to propel his body forward in a tackled situation, or crawling.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:32 pm
GBS
Dis n ‘feit soos n koei’
(in Potchefstroomseregsfakuliteitsterme)!
Faita’compli, of soiets…
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:32 pm
role = roll – I need to go – later.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:34 pm
GBS
Lekker warm hier.
Ek en Pampoen sit op die verandah en kyk na die maan, en drink n nag sopie.
Dink ek gaan gou n koue stort vat…
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:36 pm
To freshen a now very boring debate – Who is your super 14 team of the tournament?
Mine is :
15 : Huxley
14 : R.Gear
13 : Toeava
12 : Giteau
11 : Shepherd
10 : Carter
9 : Du Preez
8 : Lauaki
7 : McCaw
6 : Botes
5: Flavell (capt)
4: Botha
3 : Hayman
2: Smit
1: Woodcock
What do you think of my selection ?
Post yours if you think you can do better !
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:36 pm
Pietman
Jy, sy en die rekenaar?
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:36 pm
I sat in line with the deadball line…. Splitpin rolled the ball forward… I SAW IT… none of the TV angles saw it that clearly as I did either….
… The ball made at least 1 full revolution forward…. unmistakable…..
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Hello Katvis
Maar het jy gesien GBS is die nuusmaker op IOL?
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:38 pm
Katvis
Nee, net ek en die rekenaar gaan stort!
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:39 pm
GBS
Dit was darem ook na ‘n hele paar doppe hehehehehe
Pietman
Ja ek het gesien. Debbie does GBS – of iets in dien voege
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:39 pm
Ek deel more om 12:00 handtekeninge uit…. siende dat ek nou famous is…… hehehehe
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:40 pm
#337
Wou net sê!!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:40 pm
niceone- how can u leave out the worlds best fullback??- gio aplon. if i had to bet my life on a player making a tackle then gio’s the man
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:41 pm
KIR
What r u smoking? What about Rose? hehehe
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Die Bulle het gewen, end van die storie.
Hulle was die beste span in die S14 in elk geval, by verre.
Dit is net jammer van FduP
Dit kan ons kos in die WB.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Ek sê mos hoeka al dat Heinie Adams SA se 3de beste scrummie is…. vêr beter as Rickie (stoffelkop) Januarie…..
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:47 pm
So gepraat van H Adams (terloops – ek stem nie saam nie) – wat het van Norman Jordaan geword? Die bulle het hom ook so opgehemel op ‘n stadium.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:48 pm
#341 – Good call but I was basing my selection for this position on sheer consistency only and thus Huxley is my pick.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:48 pm
donnerleeu- imagine white played rose and aplon as the bok centre combination, the oppostion would have to be bloody brave or farking crazy to try run through that brick wall
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:50 pm
GBS you should have paid for better tickets! Cheapskate.
The reason why there are sooooo many bulls supporters on this threas is because they know they won it by crook and they are clambering for justification.
Forget it okes you won, you don’t have to justify it, it was the refs (linesmans) fault not yours (excpet for your dirty player on the ground). The more you justify it the more you tell us that you know you don’t deserve the cup!
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:50 pm
Ok cheers julle. O – so ten laaste. Ek dink Stevie Wonder kan beter sien as Stevie Welsh hehehehe
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:52 pm
Welsh = Walsh.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:52 pm
Norman Jordaan is a blue legend!!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:54 pm
Nee kyk, as Stofile **** van Norman Jordaan, dan gaan hy n deurbraak maak in sy toespraak.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:55 pm
346
Dude he was joking…
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:59 pm
326 PissAnt,
Yes but in inpreting that rule you could say that the ball was already placed. The idea is that someone with ball in hand can reach out and place it …… otherwise the rule woule say ‘place or replace’
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:01 pm
i got a good sporting Question… which ladies tennis player would u most like to hammer 6-0??
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:02 pm
The Bill
just another sour sharks fan , so who in your eyes should have the cup , the sharks? who haven’t won anything in the last decade ??
Please do tell
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:03 pm
333 niceone,
The Habana fans are quiet
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:04 pm
My S14 team, because of consistency over the duration of 14 league rounds.
15 Julian Huxley
14 Bryan Habana
13 Isaia Toeava
12 Luke McAlister (when fit, otherwise Matt Giteau)
11 JP Pietersen
10 Nick Evans
9 Fourie Du Preez (Brendon Leonard not far behind)
8 Mose Tuili’i
7 Juan Smith
6 Luke Watson
5 Victor Matfield
4 Troy Flavell
3 Carl Hayman
2 John Smit
1 Deon Carstens
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:07 pm
#353 – I know ! Just continuing the sarcasm mate !
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:08 pm
Jacques Botes misses out to Luke Watson based on the fact that Luke played behind a losing pack the entire tournament… and had the captain’s armband.
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:09 pm
355- come on okes, which international star would u like to have a few shots with?
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:09 pm
#357 – They know the truth mate . They know thats as good as ‘Flying Bryan ‘ is, Rico is just BETTER.
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:11 pm
Looking at the photo it is amazing that anyone could see well enough to referee a South African rugby match with the excessive TV graphics
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:11 pm
#355 – Steffi Graff ?
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:12 pm
362
Is that why he’s been demoted to Junior All Blacks?
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:12 pm
Blue rugga new to the site now that your team have won?
Read my post again, I told you to enjoy it. But no, you want to wine & fight about it. You are a sad person.
As you probably know there were 2 HUGE calls by the ref, one was to allow Habana to stay on the field & the other (by the touch judge) was to not call a knock on or penalty (see picture above).
The sharks should have closed the game out sooner, but didn’t and so the Bulls for all their negatives deserved to win.
All I am saying is try be a little bit humble, you only won with massive luck on your side.
gedit?
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:12 pm
But definitely NOT Maria Sharapova
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:13 pm
#365 – Good call that just highights the fact that if Habana was a NZer he wouldnt make the juniors !
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:15 pm
365 ziyaad,
That is just a tactic to give him a wake up call
hmm, you selected Evans over Carter. Evans had some off games. I do not think he is fully back to form.
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:17 pm
Gear and Sivi are the best two AB wingers. Howlett and Roco are back up
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:19 pm
15 Huxley
14 Pieterson
13 Murray
12 Toeva
11 Habana
10 Brett
9 Du Preez
8 Tuili’i
7 McCaw
6 Van Heerden
5 matfield
4 Flavell
3 Hayman
2 Smit
1 Botha
16 G.Botha
17 Carstens
18 B.Botha
19 Smith
20 Leonard
21 Carter
22 Shepard
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:22 pm
#371 – I like that line up Axel. But Carter not starting , BIG call . Also Murray starting – enough eperience and good displays there ahead of other options ?
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:27 pm
The game is finished and bad calls went both ways. That’s the way the game went and the cup is in Pretoria – nothing is going to take it to Durban in 2007.
Well done to both teams on a good team and well done to the Bulls for keeping on playing. The same thing happened in the Vodacom Cup final…
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:30 pm
I think Brett had a better super 14 than carter and I put murray there because I think he did everything right. He was excellent on attack and solid in defence and you need a hard outside centre like him.
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:31 pm
371 Axel,
If that is based on S14 then didn’t Isaia Toeava spend his time at center?
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:37 pm
What we have to remember here is that all refereeing decisions are subjective.
If he wanted too, Walsh could have blown this match to a standstill. Such were the number of infringements committed by both teams which went unpunished.
At the end of the day, I truly believe Walsh entered into the spirit of the occasion by being a little too lenient towards both sides.
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:39 pm
chch
12 is centre
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:40 pm
Anyone else care to post their TEAM OF THE TOURNAMENT to rival our selections ??
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:41 pm
Why is everyone blaming the police man and not the guy cheating anyway? ….. it’s because it happens all the time
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:44 pm
377 Axel, I mean 13
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:48 pm
377 I would call number 12 2nd 5/8 or inside center and 13 center
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:52 pm
Ya he did play outside centre most of the time but I had to have Murray and him there and I thought he could slot in at 12 easier than Murray.
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:53 pm
382 true
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Super 14 Team of the season
Percy Montgomery,François Steyn,Waylon Murray
Brad Barritt,JP Pietersen,Butch James
Ruan Pienaar,Ryan Kankowski,AJ Venter
Jacques Botes,Johann Muller,Johan Ackermann
BJ Botha,John Smit,Deon Carstens
simple actually
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:47 pm
No Bill, It is not the Bulls supporters bitching. It is the sharks whingeing again (and a lot of the udder teams).
We understand though. It sticks sideways in your arse that the Bulls slipped the S14 trophy from under your grasp.
I loved it with all the cheering shark fans and then, (like Staal would say) thump. Deafening silence.
Biggest chokers of 2007, even more so than the Proteas and Pakistan
Percy Montgomery,François Steyn,Waylon Murray
Brad Barritt,JP Pietersen,Butch James
Ruan Pienaar,Ryan Kankowski,AJ Venter
Jacques Botes,Johann Muller,Johan Ackermann
BJ Botha,John Smit,Deon Carstens
simple actually
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:56 pm
John Eales famously said that he would never blame a ref for losing a match. An eighty minute game is made up of 100’s of incidents where players on either side deliberately infringe, take bad options or simply make mistakes. To highlight one incident is irresponsible no matter what the timing of the decision was.
Personally I thought that Van der Berghs try was a knock on and that he momentarily lost control. Oldest rule in the book and the first one that you are taught as a kid…Play to the whistle!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:56 pm
hmmmm….
On close inspection it looks like the hand of God to me. Perhaps Jaco’s VDW t-shirt worked.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:01 pm
It is clear that the Bulls would never have been able to win the game on merit. They were completely outplayed by the Sharks. The only way they won the game is through cheating. And please keep religion out of the debat because ****** will never be a party to cheating.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:02 pm
its gotta hurt being a sharks fan.
last year we kept them out of the semi’s and this year they threw the game away and are now bitching like its the Bulls’ fault.
conveniently forgetting it was only a forward pass that led to a try against the Blues that put them top of the log.
swings and merry-go-rounds mof&ckers.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:02 pm
Van den Berg’s try was a double movement. You can watch the footage. First he fell short, then he mad a lunge with his arms and upper body, which he is entitled to do, then he rolled the ball with one hand over his arm. That’s clearly a double movement.
Anyway, way to go Wikus for his surreptitious hand! Or was that Kuun?
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:06 pm
iamok,
we’ll all gather around and you can cry us a little river.
just be careful the sharks dont choke in it.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:06 pm
Lyk vir my Xskreeu-nie-Kak nie is weer uit om te stir. As hy die skelmheid van die Bulls kondoneer is hy net so oneerlik soos hulle. Noudat die Shark ondersteuners weet dat hulle die stryd op meriete gewen het en dat skelmheid aan die kant van die Bulle die uitslag bepaal het, kan hul hul koppe hoog hou en die Bul ondersteuners soos Xskree-nie-Kak nie, met minagting bejeen.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:06 pm
I never said the Bulls supporters were bitching I said they were defending their victory too much.
‘Me thinks he doth protest too much’…
A bitter sweet victory if you ask me.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:12 pm
iamok,
moenie nou soos n martelaar maak of jou haaitjies sonder sonde is nie. snaaks dat julle nie die selfde geraas gemaak het toe julle heel gelukkig die Blues getroef het met vuilspel nie. en by vuilspel bedoel ek n drie van n “forward pass’ af.
snaaks dat dit nie jou morele waardes so erg krenk nie? id dit dalk omdat jy net n suurgat slegte verloorder is wat nie kan vat dat sy span ELKE finaal verloor wat hulle in speel nie?
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:16 pm
Bill,
did you see anything bitter in the faces of the Bulls supporters on Saturday?
didnt think so, and funny thing is, i didnt see it either when I looked in the mirror
we have been on the receiving end of dodgy decisions too many times to not savour this one.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:22 pm
Nee bloukarp, ons het die uitslag aanvaar en hou nie die ref aanspreeklik nie. Hy kon immers nie die verneukspul aan die anderkant van die skrum gesien het nie. Ek dink die Shark ondersteuners het met waardigheid uit die stryd getree. Die feit dat daar eers vandag klink klare bewys gelewer is wat ons die afgelope paar dae op hierdie site gepos het, regverdig dit ‘n afsluit opmerking. Indien die Bulls so sou verloor het, dan sou almal soos regte egter Martie Martelgatte opgetree het.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:40 pm
Well all the Bulls players seem to know a lot about the fact that Albert Van Der Berghs try was illegal because of a “double movement”. What silly ignorant litte Smurfs!
Listen carefully Smurfs: THERE IS NO SUCH THING IN THE LAWS OF THE GAME! He is entitled to place the ball over the line if tackled short. If held in the tackle and he is able to place the ball over the line, he can. Its that simple. I quote, form the laws of the game, and not brandy soaked delusions of grandeur:
“LAW 22.4 (e) Tackled near the goal line. If a player is tackled near to the opponents’ goal line so that this player can immediately reach out and ground the ball on or over the goal line, a try is scored.”
So, I stick to my opinion. The Bulls did not deserve to win. They did, and there is nothing we can do about it now. We can be satisfied in the knowledge that they didn’t deseve it and that the better team was robbed.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:50 pm
Well said Bob. I hope this will for once and for all penetrate their silly little minds so that the debate around van der Berg’s try can be closed.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Wel – oor een ding is ek bly. Saterdag was Liefling weereens ge-expose as die average flyhalf wat hy is!!
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:54 pm
Ook snakks dat daar nie weer ‘n bohaai oor Up & under Roets nie in die bokgroep is gemaak word nie.
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:02 pm
277# Are you projecting??
297# PMSL…. straight talk
Look at Old man Alberts face after the ref aards the try… he cant F*cken believe it
Bulle 2007 Rugby Champions
Sharks deserve to cry for the rest of the year
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:03 pm
Sharks are chokers just like the stupid Proteas
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:05 pm
Loftus Versfeld is nou in die Guiness Book of Records aangewys as die grootste *** klub in die wereld. Waar anders sing 60,000 mans met horings vir mekaar “liefling” terwyl spelers mekaar omhels oor hulle aan ‘n bal kon vat en druk.
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:07 pm
Linston Manuels the TJ who missed this one ?
You owe us one bugger!
Comment by Anvil : May 22, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
——————————————-
did this young man not screw up at loftus before?
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:38 pm
one has to admire Keo for not censoring 297
its called democracy
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:43 pm
I don’t think Linston was the TJ. It was an all Kiwi affair – ref, TJ’s and TMO.
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:01 pm
You can’t blame Steve Walsh for that – he was on the other side of the ruck, and wouldn’t be able to see it.
Get you head out of your arse, Keo, and make objective comments – rather than just pushing “barrows”.
The TJ on the other hand SHOULD HAVE done something – like they should do something about the off-side play that most teams are playing now.
At least the new rules are going to enforce a wider separation, and therefore a better game.
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Give me a break Keo, you cheap sensationalist. How do you think the ball got out from the inside of Thiart, flipping over his back? Hands in the ruck.Penalty to the Bulls, tap & go…
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:11 pm
And btw, if you look at the video footage, thiart did not scoop the ball, back. At that stage it went over his should (Mysteriously) and he was struggling to keep it back, after that Kuun (I think) dove over and got the ball back.
Keo, maybe you should invest in a video machine and stop publishing unadulterated **** like this. You are losing credibility more and more.
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:12 pm
should=shoulder
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:14 pm
You really make me sick, the quality and integrity on this site is shocking. You are purely aiming at publishing content to get the hits on your site, journalistic integrity is not a phrase you can remember anymore (I.e. Hoskins forced Jake to choose Derick etc.)
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:27 pm
evidence doesnt lie does it…
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:28 pm
Does the truth hurt Jak?
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:49 pm
Albert’s try was two movements… thus a PENALTY.
So this try should not have been aworded. Richard Young, please submit some video evidence about this try …
May 23rd, 2007 at 12:00 am
414 Do you live under a rock? I refer you to post 397. Learn the rules of the game.
May 23rd, 2007 at 1:44 am
397# the Operative word is “IMMEDIATELY”
10 seconds to ground a ball is not immediate
Learn to understand what you read sunnyboy.
May 23rd, 2007 at 2:04 am
i have never seen Steve have a good game
come back watson all is forgiven lol
May 23rd, 2007 at 2:08 am
bob, the reason you don’t like the term “double movement” is because, evidently, you are incapable of abstract thought.
A “double movement,” even if it is not in the laws, is a common expression that refers to player making two stop-start movements with the ball while it is in his grasp. If he only manages to place the ball over the line after the second movement, then he clearly didn’t do so immediately.
I’ll give you time to let the concept sink in.
May 23rd, 2007 at 3:23 am
Reading this blog thread has provided me with volumes of input for my studies on the psychology of the rugby fan.
The analysis boils down to only four words:
BULLS TRY
SHARKS CRY
That’s all folks! Super 14 is over! Bulls won! Sharks lost!
Came second or whatever…you lost! The hard, cold facts are that the Bulls are the supreme Super 14 side of 2007.
Dry your eyes dear Sharks fans. You are embarrassing yourselves now.
What happened to the colonial Natal stiff upper lip? Now replaced by the quivering lip of the new breed of Shark fan, blubbering “The ref missed it and lost us the game”.
You have so many positives to take out of your season. Don’t dwell on the negativity…it will drag you back to the netherworld from whence you came.
May 23rd, 2007 at 5:17 am
The analysis boils down to only four words:
Blue Bulls- IN BREEDING
May 23rd, 2007 at 6:01 am
Check the replay
Albert’s was a try, as Bob says.
Bulls clearly knokced on in the ruck, then illegally raked it back (Kuun and Theart).
Should have been a penalty to the Sharks.
But still, Steyn threw the game, he had an easy kick for touch, twice, and he didn’t kick it out on the hooter. And that is the where Sharks lost.
Butch’s silly knock-on behind the tryline was the turning point in the match.
He was too ‘lacksedazical’, out there on his own.
May 23rd, 2007 at 6:03 am
i watched the game again and steve had a SHOCKER
from beginning to end…
Such a nice chap, such a useless ref
May 23rd, 2007 at 6:34 am
The game would not have stopped as the Bulls had advantage for off-side from the previous move. So they would have scored in any case from the resultant penalty.
May 23rd, 2007 at 6:36 am
the touch =judge should be blamed, surely… welsh was on the other side of the maul.. oh well, i guess was just destiny
May 23rd, 2007 at 6:45 am
Maybe it was karma paying the Bulls back for the manuels ****-up.
If so, the Sharks would get their payback as well. It could take another 89 years, or there is a better chance of it happening in next years Vodacom Cup. The sharkies with their frail confidence in tatters will be broken for the next few years. If I was Jake I would leave them all out of the Bok squad this year. They will benefit more to spend the time with a psycologist or perhaps a recuperation trip to Tibet.
May 23rd, 2007 at 6:55 am
Seeing the sharks supporters torturing themselves and reliving the loss again and again, just makes it so much sweeter
May 23rd, 2007 at 7:24 am
Doesn’t look like anyone answered the questions so I’ll give it a go:
Is it legal?
No
Is it illegal?
Of course
Is it blindness?
Who said that????
Is it shortsightedness?
Who said that again????
Is it outofsightedness?
Allegedly
Is it conspiracy?
Unlikely – too much intelligence required for that!
Is it sad?
For the Sharks and the Bulls now that the image has been published
Is it not sad?
I am too upset to answer that one!
Is it a combination of any of the above?
Its a combination of ALL of the above.
May 23rd, 2007 at 7:28 am
it was a cruel one point defeat. and the officials missed a blatant foul.
but whats done is done and it is time to move on and for sharks fans to show though their team may not have won, they are the better supporters. which is not exactly a difficult task…
May 23rd, 2007 at 8:04 am
Bottom line is, you see what you want to see, to now like a bunch of babies because you didn’t get your ice cream will do nothing.
I agree that it went forward and was played on the ground. However look at the scoreboard – Will any of this bitching change the result? NO! Will it happen again? YES! That is the nature of sport and we (Bulls) were on the lucky side of the decision.
If the same thing happens to the Boks on saturday, heaven forbid (no jaco tshirt under my jersey calm down boys) that we need to score in extra time to win, but if that happens and the Boks get lucky there will be less of a panick about the blatancy of the referee and all that ****!
Viva amaBokke – Bokke
May 23rd, 2007 at 8:26 am
Look, **** Muir said himself to blame a loss on one or two incidents is stupid. I do believe the Sharks were the better team. They dominated the Bulls pack, actually made them look silly. The Bulls with their Bully boy tactics provailed. Thing is, the Sharks are still the better team. The Bulls took seven years of building with Heyneke to reach a Super 14 final. **** and his team, took 2!!! The final was very messy and anybody who thinks our skill level, especially the Bulls’, is seriously one eyed. Go look at the game again. Some very school boy errors that would cost us in the World Cup.
May 23rd, 2007 at 8:28 am
To all the Bulls fans, you guys would have been bitching even more if the roles were reversed, but its not. Congratulations on your team. I’m sure you guys are going to get even more arrogant now. We’ll see next year if you can maintain your play.
May 23rd, 2007 at 8:32 am
FREE DVD copy of the final, just a handeling fee of R75 plus R10 postage and packaging. georgepolly@absamail.co.za
May 23rd, 2007 at 11:19 am
Xkreni-WP – Atleast the Sharks made it to the finals and got a home final for a matter of fact. Yes the Shark lost and all the finger pointing will not change the end results but i guess that is life. The only other thing that i can say is that your an idiot.
May 23rd, 2007 at 5:38 pm
I just looked at the replay again, and it is pretty clear to me that it was a double movement.
Alber van den Berg has the ball in both arms when he gets tackled. Then first he pushes his left arm forward. Then, finally, he rolls the ball over his left arm, with his right hand. That is two movements, and he therefore did not place the ball immediately. It happened pretty quickly though, which is why Walsh awarded the try. So these things happen in sport, and the Sharks have only themselves to blame for losing.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:48 am
Bulls ‘achieved the impossible’
24/05/2007 10:45 – (SA)
JJ Harmse
Trust the Bulls to achieve the impossible. Again, they defied the odds, as they did in all of 2007 and for that they will be remembered. They created their own destiny and stuck to their unbelievable spirit to win the Super 14.
Again, unfortunately, there was controversy that overshadowed their victory and the unbelievable achievement of the trendsetters in South African rugby.
The way the ball was won back to enable Bryan Habana to score that final try, is now suddenly the focus in many a newspaper and Steve Walsh is quoted as saying that he got it wrong.
Yes, he did, just two minutes earlier when Albert van den Berg’s try was awarded. It was clear that there was no way that he could have awarded the try, yet no one is doubting that call or why Walsh did not go to the TMO.
There is no doubt that Habana deserved a yellow card early in the game and to be honest, if the final was played in Australia or New Zealand, a red card would have been the most likely outcome.
However, there were also other calls where Walsh and the officials got it wrong. Just as everybody was wondering, why Frans Steyn rushed his last kick, but forgets that Percy Montgomery missed two sitters as well.
And as Habana is the real hero, everybody seems to forget that it was a conversion that won the game, not the try. If Hougaard missed, he would have been ostracised, but he succeeded and now Habana is the hero!
The Bulls know how it feels to lose out in the last minute. They have been waiting to jump on the crossbar, Jaco van der Westhuyzen-style, for three long years.
In 2005, that last gasp try by the Cheetahs ripped the Currie Cup away from the Bulls. Last year, during the drawn Currie Cup final, the Bulls had to sit and wait for the Cheetahs to complete their victory lap around Vodacom Park before they could lay their hands on the Cup they came to reconquer.
During this year’s competition, the Bulls shaped their destiny week after week. Remember, they had a home game less than the Sharks and dropped one of those when a really bad call by a touch judge cost them the match against the Force at Loftus.
And a week later, when Habana scored the winning try against the Chiefs, again after the buzzer, it was the moment that finally launched them towards the title.
Their three victories in Australasia were a fantastic first for South Africa, as was that memorable day against the Reds.
Sixth on the log
That game showed fans that this team would not give up. Remember, they started that game sixth on the log and finished it second.
I suppose one can write a glowing report on the Sharks as well. But in the words of Tiger Woods, second place is first loser. And that is unfortunately the way the Sharks will be remembered by those without any affinity for the black and white cause.
It was their big chance and they could not do it. Next year there will be no AJ Venter, Johan Ackermann, Percy, Bob Skinstad, Warren Britz, Albert or even John Smit, all who deserve to go out winners. Their departure is a huge, huge loss to **** Muir. He will be back, no doubt, to fight another battle, but somehow I feel he will not be as confident in his arsenal as he was in 2007.
The Sharks fans are in despair, the Bulls’ ones ecstatic, but even it if was the other way around, you can be sure that both teams will again have massive support in 2008. Even more than the Springboks.
But then, they are not continually undermined by politicians and edgy administrators. The Bulls and Sharks coaches, Heyneke Meyer and Muir are tipped for the national set-up. I could understand if both were reluctant to leave the empires they have built for what can only be described as organised chaos.
The Bulls fan or Sharks fan is totally committed to his/her team. The mess at national level will not make those fans jump ship to join the Springbok cause.
The success of last year’s Currie Cup, rated by many as one of the best yet, and the fantastic way the Super 14 ended, should have had fans flooding Bloemfontein to see the Springboks beat the hell out of the English. After all, Bok van Blerk has been reminding us how bad the English treated us in his song De La Rey. There is a reason why the N1 past Bloemfontein has no traffic jams.
Kaizer Chiefs and Orlando Pirates fans do not miss a game their teams play, but somehow Bafana Bafana does not hold the same attraction. The rugby fan feels the same way at the moment about the Springboks. Both sporting disciplines have the same problem: meddling politicians and unsure officials.
Chiefs and Pirates were established in the bad, bad days of segregation and separate development. Yet, in the new, democratic South Africa, their fan base is bigger than ever before. Does this mean their fans are still supporting the past, the old system or are racist? Of course not.
Maybe it is time for politicians and administrators to understand that like soccer fans rooting for Chiefs and Pirates, and rugby fans that support the Springboks (or the Bulls and Sharks for that matter) are not clinging to something that was good in bad days. They just want to feel proud and part of something special that speaks to the core.
And if any politicians or administrators with those values can step up, we will be proud of them too. Until then, it seems the Bulls, Chiefs or De La Rey will have to do.
Read JJ every Sunday in Rapport
June 2nd, 2007 at 11:09 pm
If you ask me who the super 14 champions are I would definitely say the Sharks!!!!
Bulls supporters are biased and won’t admit that they stole the ball on the ground illegally!!!
Bulls real cheaters!!!!