Lion King Tana roars
26 Sep 2007
The only thing Brian O’Driscoll and Tana Umaga agreed on was that England and British and Irish Lions lock Danny Grewcrock was a meathead.
Umaga’s biography, Up Close, is due for release and New Zealand’s impressive rugby site, Rugbyheaven.co.nz ran content of the chapter dealing with Umaga and Keven Mealamu ending O’Driscoll’s Lions tour.
We’ve heard O’Driscoll’s rants for years, now here’s Umaga’s version, courtesy of Rugbyheaven.co.nz
I was very enthusiastic going into the first test in Christchurch. I’d been looking forward to it for two years and couldn’t wait to give it everything I had. Not even some of the worst weather Christchurch could throw at us could change that. Everyone knows – or thinks they know – what happened in the first 90 seconds. I went into a ruck and cleaned out Brian O’Driscoll. I was standing over the ball trying to protect it when he bounced back to have another crack at disrupting our possession. We were tussling as he tried to get through and I grabbed his leg to try to unbalance him, a technique I’d used before and still use to this day. What I didn’t realise was that Keven Mealamu was doing the same thing on the other side of the ruck. As I got one of O’Driscoll’s legs up, Keven hoisted his other leg and drove him back. He ended up with both feet off the ground, not in control of himself or the situation, a position rugby players often find themselves in. When we let him go he came down and what happened, happened. I didn’t think anything of it, I just took off.
When the whistle blew and he was being attended to by his medical staff, I was completely focused on the job in hand. The game I’d been preparing for since the 2003 World Cup had just started, the pressure was on, and I was concentrating on what we were going to do next. It didn’t really occur to me to go and check on what was happening in their camp. There was no conscious decision not to go over: I didn’t do it then because I didn’t do it, period; I’d never done it for anybody else. I was a competitive animal out there. The flipside of that was my bedside manner when my players got injured: if I saw someone in my team on the ground, I’d say, ‘What’s wrong with you? Just get up.’ I was always telling cousin Jerry that. When they carted O’Driscoll off I thought Jesus, major, then I put it out of my mind and got on with the game.
I didn’t go and see him after the game but I ran into a group of their players who weren’t going to the after-match function and asked Richard Hill how Brian was. He said he’d gone to hospital. Again, I didn’t think anything of it. When we got back to the hotel after the dinner, Keven and I were told that we’d been cited so we had a meeting with NZRU lawyer Steve Cottrell to run through what had happened. While we were doing that, news came through that the Citing Commissioner had ruled there was no case to answer. We were relieved but not surprised; from the outset our view was that since there’d been no malice or intent, the matter shouldn’t go any further.
The Lions leadership and their high-powered spin doctor Alistair Campbell wouldn’t take ‘no case to answer’ for an answer and found a way to take the matter much further. The sustained personal attack they launched against me was hard to believe and even harder to stomach. You don’t want to take it personally but it’s almost impossible not to when another player, a guy you had some respect for, attacks your character in the most direct and damning terms. My first thought was geez, don’t be a sook; there’s no use crying about it, man, it’s over. On the other hand I could understand how bitterly disappointed O’Driscoll was. He would have been just like me: buzzing with anticipation, really up for it, and desperate to make a point on the field.
There was a lot of talk about the Lions’ response to the haka. Someone had supposedly advised O’Driscoll to kneel down and pick a blade of grass, which he’d done, and we’d supposedly regarded that as disrespectful. The truth was we didn’t care what they did. I noticed him doing it but just thought, oh, that’s different. Opposition teams had tried a variety of responses and our attitude was always the same: whatever. We didn’t understand what he was doing so they were one up on us there, but it’s rubbish to suggest that it had anything to do with what happened at that ruck. The media tends to provide interpretations of what they think has happened, as opposed to what actually did happen, and it’s often all that speculation which creates the angst and inflames the situation.
At first, the kerfuffle didn’t really bother me. It was a case of, oh well that’s the way it is. But it just snowballed and O’Driscoll kept going on about the fact that I hadn’t rung him to say sorry. I’d actually tried to get hold of him on the Monday via the Lions’ media liaison person but I never heard back. By this stage we were in Wellington and it just kept cranking up and I was getting a bit angry. I finally obtained his number and got hold of him but it wasn’t a warm exchange. He was still angry that I hadn’t gone over to see how he was and once he’d got that off his chest, he accused me of being involved in a lot of off-the-ball incidents. The Lions hadn’t been impressed with the way I’d played, he said, and I had to watch it. I said, ‘Don’t talk to me about off-the-ball incidents, talk to your own players.’ (With all the fuss the Lions had made over the O’Driscoll incident, it had almost been overlooked that their lock Danny Grewcock, a player with a history of foul play, had been cited, found guilty, and banned for biting Keven Mealamu.) ‘Look at Grewcock,’ I said. ‘He’s a meathead.’ ‘Yeah, he is a meathead,’ he said. ‘You can’t change that but we’re better than that. We shouldn’t play like those guys. We thought you were a gentleman.’
While he went on along those lines, I was thinking to myself, hang on, this is a game I take seriously. And I did: I aimed to let an opponent know I was out there and get into his mind so that next time he’d have a look to see if I was coming. I’d body-check him on the way through or if I came up quickly and the pass didn’t go to him, I’d still give him a little reminder that I was around so he knew that if he didn’t have his wits about him, he could get hit, and hit hard. I had no qualms about it; that was how I played. That’s the gamesmanship of rugby. Players sledge. I sledged a bit and did so in that game. I was always trying to get an edge and in that respect I was no different to a lot of players.
But when he started talking about off-the-ball stuff and me not being a gentleman I thought, oh, you’re reaching now. I never went out to commit foul play: I didn’t punch guys on the ground or stomp on them. So I said, ‘Oh well, mate, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I’m sorry for what happened to you but there was no intent in it; it was one of those unfortunate things that happen in rugby.’ He said, ‘Yeah, but you could’ve helped it.’ ‘Okay, mate,’ I said, ‘all the best.’ And that was where we left it.
Instead of trying to get on the front foot straight away, our PR strategy was to let the storm blow itself out. But it didn’t blow itself out and when I eventually held a press conference a few days later it felt like a hollow exercise. By that stage I was all for just taking it on the chin and getting on with it, but our media people wanted to respond to what had become a pretty relentless and inflammatory – as in ‘I could have died’ – campaign. I’d been getting a lot of support from the team all week and at the press conference I was backed up by the leadership group which was great, even though the exercise itself felt like it was all a bit late. Whether it could have been nipped in the bud is a moot point given the intensity of their media blitz but for a couple of days they had the floor to themselves and they made the most of it. Even when I was being bombarded with questions I couldn’t help seeing the funny side of it: poor little me surrounded by all those big, burly forwards as if I couldn’t protect myself. It was good to have my say but I wanted to do my talking on the field.
Clive Woodward had talked his team up, saying they were the best prepared Lions ever and wouldn’t repeat the mistakes of the 2001 Lions tour of Australia, which was a crack at Graham Henry who’d coached that team. That kind of thing – attacking our people, talking themselves up – just steeled us. We wanted to show them that they weren’t as good as they thought they were and Woodward wasn’t as good as he thought he was.
They started the second test very well, scoring under the posts virtually from the kick-off. I wasn’t worried because we hadn’t had the ball or played any rugby. My message was let’s get the ball, get down there, and give it a crack. They launched another attack but this time they dropped the ball. I picked it up and gave it to Daniel Carter because I knew he’d do something with it and I was able to run off him and score. It was a team try, pure and simple. I didn’t see it as some sort of personal statement – ‘straight back at you’ – because I never felt like it was me against them.
At times, though, they seemed to think it was them against me. As a ruck broke up, Paul O’Connell loomed over me ranting and raving. As I got up, their props Julian White and Gethin Jenkins started pushing and shoving. I knew it was going to happen at some stage so I just said, ‘Come on, any time, just bring it.’ I backed away slowly looking at them and saying, ‘Are you going to start playing soon or what?’ Later, when O’Connell went down, I went over to him as he was rolling around the ground and said, ‘Mate, don’t give up now, we’re just getting started.’ He jumped straight up. When Stephen Jones came on for Jonny Wilkinson he took the ball up yelling, ‘For our captain!’ like something out of Braveheart. I said, ‘Are you serious?’ You could see how they were trying to motivate themselves but it became quite laughable.
127 Comments
26 Sep 2007, 00:19 am
Interesting.
Anyone going to the USA-SA match on Sunday? Lets meet up.
26 Sep 2007, 00:25 am
Keo, you gonna be there to buy a pint for a loyal reader?
26 Sep 2007, 00:30 am
Well there ya have it
26 Sep 2007, 00:36 am
An attempt by O’Driscoll to take the moral high ground, when in fact Tana was simply getting on with the game.
Was Tana to blame for not going over at the time of injury? You dont go over for all injuries, but perhaps because O’Driscoll was the captain, then Tana should have gone, I mean, thats what captains do, huh?
26 Sep 2007, 00:45 am
Always two sides to every story. Perhaps as captain he should have gone over when BOD was carried off. It’s history now, time to move on
26 Sep 2007, 01:02 am
tana is a legend i would like to get me a copy of his book!
But boks to win the world cup!
Would be interessting to read who tana rates as a great apposing centre he played against, imagine jaque fourie is right up there…
26 Sep 2007, 01:13 am
#6, what about Marius Joubert, who put 3 tries past Umaga against the AB’s at Ellis Park?
26 Sep 2007, 01:36 am
#7 no not that one hit wonder. I think Mortlock and Daniel Herbert are up there then big head Joubert.
26 Sep 2007, 02:20 am
He’s already stated Mortlock has been his toughest opponent and rates Sella as his all time favourite centre he has seen play.
Condolences to Tana on the passing of his father, at Hutt Hospital a day or so ago, may his father rest in peace.
26 Sep 2007, 02:25 am
‘When we let him go he came down and what happened, happened. I didn’t think anything of it, I just took off.’
So you hoist someone upside down, piledrive him onto his neck and then just take off?
Footage of the incident, just to show what exactly happened and its no small deal, O’Driscoll really could’ve died:
youtube.com/watch?v=X4ncc7vSW7U
I suggest that O’Driscoll’s version of events in his book is also given for a little balance.
People think that Vickery’s trip was worth 2 games and Burger’s challenge 2 games but this was worth a year and then some.
This incident totally overshadowed the Lions tour and the fact that Umaga was allowed to play on rubbed salt into the wounds.
26 Sep 2007, 02:27 am
As for Grewcock, for all his flaws, he’s never done anything like that on a rugby field.
26 Sep 2007, 02:29 am
Biggles
BOD has draggged his “version of events” in front of every camera in the western press more than once already – We ALL know his side of the story. I msut say I considered tht he a remarkable clarity for someone who felt ther life was in danger ! Jaysus, Mary & Joseph what a wet girls blouse he was !
Flying home today through another storm – wanna come ?
26 Sep 2007, 02:34 am
12
Morning RP,
The press wanted to speak to the Captain of a Lions tour after the most dangerous incident in International rugby since 1995. ISn’t he entitled to give his view on what happened?
26 Sep 2007, 02:40 am
I imagine the reaction in NZ would’ve been sligtly different in NZ if it had been Dan Carter who had been subject to the double piledriver.
IT would’ve been a crime against the Kiwi bird, the kiwi fruit, the long cloud, Colin Meads, the haka and the entire All Black legacy then wouldn’t it!
O’Driscoll was as potentially impt. to the Lions as Carter was to NZ in that series. The handling of this incident devalued the entire result.
26 Sep 2007, 02:42 am
Sweetheart
BOD spent more time in front of cameras harping on the one topic than most actors coming out of re-hab ! Not to mention his grossly transparent use of the ABs tour of Europe last year to re-launch his book … just as the ABs were arriving in Ireland – I was embarrassed for him.
Many of the Lions players on that tour were not happy with how Woodward & Campbell kept sicking it up in their press conferences like a pair of bilious cats … All in a blatant, yet sad, attempt to draw attention away from the hiding they were being dealt at every outing.
26 Sep 2007, 02:46 am
15
You’ve been brainwashed by the biased insular NZ press. The whoe world has now seen that incident and recognise it as a disgraceful act.
6 months later McCaw was speared by Tuqiri and the Kiwis were up in arms and that incident was nothing like as bad as the O’Driscoll. Hypocrisy at its worst.
The Lions players backed O’Driscoll’s version of events and by all accounts got on well with Alistair Campbell.
26 Sep 2007, 02:50 am
The whole thing was spun out of proportion by the lions camp and that distracted the players. Looking back things might have been different had they just got on with the tour instead of trying to win silly games off the field
26 Sep 2007, 02:53 am
Biggles
You really need to get out more – come flying with me
Kesbok
Persactly right – or – perhaps Clive should have brought along more Scots /Irish /Welsh lads rather than his tired & blue (sorry Freudian typo s/b tried & true) Englishmen.
26 Sep 2007, 02:57 am
18
Me…no..fly
Clive got it wrong but the Welsh weren’t great player, they just played well for Wales in the ‘welsh way’. They would’ve made no difference. The Scots had literally no players of value that year and there were plenty of Irish on tour.
The Welsh simply weren’t up to it. Players like Stephen Jones and Gavin Henson were shown up as one-dimensional and ineffective.
26 Sep 2007, 03:11 am
Big Hit,
You are being one eyed.
As a neutral person BOD is a whinging cry baby. He harped on and on about how he could have died. He went into overkill looking for sympathy.
If Tana is such a bad person why would he stop playing rugby during a game in order to help another unconscious player? He later received an international fair play award for that act.
The Lions spin doctor got the press into a feeding frenzy and it all just went overboard and downhill from there. BOD didn’t help matters when he was snivelling to anyone who would listen to him.
26 Sep 2007, 03:12 am
Biggles
I am getting the feeling that you are not fond of flying … Okay you may have unimpeded fun now as I am off to make presenetations
26 Sep 2007, 03:35 am
BOD the most overrated centre of all time. I can think of many more centres that would make my team sheet before BOD even in his heyday. Overated and over protected. A real rugby prima donna that had one of two big games and capitliased on this. Just like Gavin Henson, Will Greenwood, Will Carling and others all good but even at their prime were never the best in the world.
26 Sep 2007, 03:57 am
22
In his heyday, BOD was unrivalled. He truly is the most naturally gifted player I’ve ever seen. However, he didn’t have the same approach to the game as say a Jonny Wilkinson and we’re seeing his slow but sure decline as a result.
26 Sep 2007, 03:58 am
22
Umaga was one player who could never get near O’Driscoll any time they played. BOD regularly broke the ABs, SA and Aus backline and has the tries to prove it.
26 Sep 2007, 04:01 am
Big Hit – he was never as good as Frank Bunce, Tim Horan, Philip Sella, to name a couple. BOD was the best of a bad bunch in the 5 and 6 nations. Against greater opposition he always fell short bar a few occasions where he lived up to his reputation. Generally a dissapointment on the world stage.
Jonny is a different story althogether – gifted, dedicated, humble, hard the best all round rugby player 4 years ago (and a long while before that) when England won the WC.
26 Sep 2007, 04:10 am
He’s superior to both Bunce and Horan in his prime. I haven’t seen enough of Sella. BOD could do the unthinkable on the field. They used to put 2/3 men on him and he’d still make serious line-breaks every time. He could pass, kick, drop-goals, play 10, 12 or 13. He really did have everything.
He hasn’t been the same player for many years now though.
26 Sep 2007, 04:25 am
Tana Umaga,my favourite all black of all time,on and off the field.
Still the Boks to win the WC though.
26 Sep 2007, 05:23 am
Big Hit – you’re entitled to an opinion, but do not let the truth get in the way of your fantasy OK.
You obviously didnt read the article clearly enough did you.
Umaga wasnt fully aware what Mealamu was doing, and it wasnt until Mealamu actually pushed forward on BoD that took BoD AWAY FROM Umaga. How the hell could Umaga stop that? BoD was in the act of falling back from Mealamus drive, all Umaga could do was let go.
All of this in a split second, while you analyse slo-mo replays on YouTube, yeah good on ya.
Trying to defy the laws of physics and blaming it on an All Black is reckless at best.
26 Sep 2007, 05:58 am
I was disappointed on how BOD re-acted later on after the tour. Understand his feelings at the time when it was a big blow to his expectations of the tour. But afterwards? It was time to grow up & move on. Tana’s re-action in the other game to help an unconscious player was a mark of his class & regognized as such.
26 Sep 2007, 06:50 am
Interesting that the bloggers on the site are screaming blue murder that NZ are getting away without citings but in this instance feel that the actions of NZ players were OK.
As the Youtube shots show the ball had been cleared some time before and thus the incident was ‘off the ball’ making it even worse.
No, not a BoD fan, but lets keep the playing ground level.
26 Sep 2007, 07:00 am
JimT what did Tana do that was so noble?The kiwi commentators relayed the action about how Tana removed the okes mouthgaurd and turned his head so he couldnt swallow his tongue.
Its impossible to swallow your own tongue.
26 Sep 2007, 07:50 am
Fern,
You can’t swallow your tongue but if you are unconscious it can fall back and block your airway, thus cutting off your airway and lead to asphyxiation.
Rugby players are supposed to be men. If it was foul play BOD should have called it that and left it at that instead he chose to whine like a little girl.
26 Sep 2007, 07:53 am
BOD was a very, very good centre for a period of two years but he was nowhere near Danie Gerber, Tim Horan and Phillipe Sella at their best. He has never sustained great play season after season.
He’s had a two year flash and faded. I seriously think his obssession with his own celebrity has eroded his hunger and focus for greater things.
26 Sep 2007, 08:24 am
‘For our captain!’
Bwahahahahaha
Oh sh@# that is funny.
26 Sep 2007, 08:40 am
PissAnt,
Thanks for pointing that out, I must have missed it when I skimmed through. What a bunch of plonkers the 2005 Lions were…
26 Sep 2007, 08:50 am
O’Driscoll is a cry baby and cry babies don’t win…Tana is the man…respect
26 Sep 2007, 08:51 am
“Grewcock is a meathead, I on the other hand, am a gentleman.”
Go captain!!!
No wonder your team played like sh@# given what you thought of your own players!
‘For our Captain’
Still cant get over that one.
Maybe they can commission someone to do a movie of all this – wont be surprised if they do actually – and call it ‘For our Captain’
You bunch of meatheads.
26 Sep 2007, 09:04 am
KKNZ that is Tana’s version of events but it doesn’t excuse the fact that he lifted BODs leg off the ground intentionally and off the ball. Everyone has seen the video evidence and knows he got away with murder. In reality, he and Mealamu (who is a brainless thug) should not have taken any further part in that series but the South African citing officer threw it out. After seeing some of the petty citings at the RWC we can only wonder at why that was the case!
26 Sep 2007, 09:06 am
Because of exactly what you said jonny.
The citings in the WC is petty.
26 Sep 2007, 09:08 am
Jinx,I disagree,I think BOD is the best center of the past 15 years,only Horan is close.
He’s been brilliant for a usually **** Irish team,now thats the sign of a great player.
26 Sep 2007, 09:08 am
Tana is the MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!Period.
26 Sep 2007, 09:09 am
#22 Kesbok. I think you are being a little unfair and allowing your SH bias to shine through. Greenwood was the man who made the 2003 England backline a danger. He had class in abundance and deserves to be recognised as a top class centre of his time.
BOD is, IMO, the best centre in world rugby over a period of the last 5 years. He might be on the wane now but those that have actually seen him play a lot know what quality he has. He can tackle, he has(had) pace and a great step and also a decent kick on him.
26 Sep 2007, 09:11 am
#39 unless you are an Aussie of course in which case go ahead and shoulder charge men off the ball, wanna spear a guy? Be my guest, we won’t cite you!
26 Sep 2007, 09:22 am
jonny,
I think there is actually a law that is saving all Aussies from stuff like this, or being charged etc.
Double Jeopardy or something I believe.
You cannot charge a convict twice.
26 Sep 2007, 09:27 am
Hahaha. Well they have to be competetive somehow. If they had a couple of 1st choice guys banned for a few games they’d be struggling to field a team at all!
26 Sep 2007, 09:36 am
Big Hit you do talk a load of utter k*k.
Gee i remember that 2005 Lions tour to NZ fondly. As a Bok fan I of course tend to naturally favour our s hemi brothers but would have enjoyed a good Lions showing normally.
Not on that occasion however. I was living in pomland at the time and the vibe around their rugby and the supporters was just insufferable. The Woodward “machine”‘s approach was so over the top..bringing in Campbell as spin doctor etc
Sitting in a pub watching the Lions supporters in that 1st test was special. I know that sounds nasty but sometimes it’s for the best to be brought back down to earth. Man did that happen! Hehe, maybe it’s because we’ve had to take it a good few times down there ourselves (not easy i admit). Ah, but happy memories those 20005 matches.
And as for Tana – bloody legend. He ha that kiwi team playing out of this world rugby.
o’Drizz-col? Seems like he’s still whining about one thing or the other. You get that a lot up north.
“for our captain!” hehe!!!!
26 Sep 2007, 09:40 am
Mmmm,sorry guys but Tana is no where the near the quality of BOD.
Imagine BOD in an All Black team,now imagine Tana in an Irish team.Tana was an very good player and a great captain but no where near an all time great.
Horan and BOD are the only 2 great centers of the past 15 years.
26 Sep 2007, 09:42 am
That series was the peak of the current crop of ABs, minus Tana of course. They played some unbelievable rugby and the Lions couldn’t live with them, no team could have in all fairness. As a NZ friend told me at the time, the Kiwis generally have a pecking order in terms of what they like winning. Lions series only comes 2nd to the RWC in that pecking order, then it is the Bledisloe Cup. They were all fired up for the tour and the Lions never stood a chance when you consider the team consisted mostly of Woodwards old England pals!
26 Sep 2007, 09:43 am
Tana is the Francois Pienaar of NZ.
26 Sep 2007, 09:45 am
Minus the Webb Ellis trophy of course!
26 Sep 2007, 09:46 am
Big ****:
“The whoe world has now seen that incident and recognise it as a disgraceful act.”
Nonsense. Who is your “whoe world”? I think you mean a few Paddys and Poms.
It was absolutely sickening listening to Brian whine on and on. I think the best thing you could do as a fan of his is keep as quiet as possible about the whole thing in the hope that people will forget about it.
God knows he’s done nothing more memorable on a rugby field since his “life-threatening” injury.
26 Sep 2007, 09:47 am
49:Spot on,great player but a better captain.
26 Sep 2007, 09:50 am
Kaksiok,you have a point,but imagine if Bakkies and Butch had done that to one of your boys (or to an Aussie),the world will be calling for their heads.
Tana and co were very lucky to get away with it.
26 Sep 2007, 09:56 am
Take it a step further. If they had done that to Habana, what would have been said in SA!!? The whinging by BOD afterwards is a legacy of Alistair Campbell’s media machine, although I am reminded now about some more Irish whinging after the last 6N game against Scotland at Murrayfield when O’Sullivan accused a Scot of “throttling” ROG at the bottom of a ruck! That was a good one.
26 Sep 2007, 09:59 am
And since then ROG never played at full throttle again.
Well thats obviously not taking playing the machines and the tables into consideration.
26 Sep 2007, 10:01 am
Agreed londonshark, if South Africans had pulled off that tackle they would have been banned for an inordinate period of time. But that wouldn’t have made it right.
It was unfortunate that BOD got hurt, but he should have dried his eyes and taken it like a man. I have no respect for him (and, incidentally, my grandfather was born in Ireland).
26 Sep 2007, 10:02 am
We would have declared a Jihad against NZL if they did that to Habana.
Then we would have told George Bush they have oil,and harbour terrorists.
26 Sep 2007, 10:04 am
And that the Hobbits are hiding weapons of mass destruction in Frodo’s ring.
26 Sep 2007, 10:05 am
Kaksioek,for sure.
26 Sep 2007, 10:05 am
Actually I think ROG (like every good Irishman) prefers the horses to the tables and machines
26 Sep 2007, 10:08 am
ROG is kak kak kak. I couldn’t believe some moron British Journo put him in his World 15 ahead of Carter last year.
26 Sep 2007, 10:10 am
“‘For our captain!’ like something out of Braveheart. I said, ‘Are you serious?’ You could see how they were trying to motivate themselves but it became quite laughable.”
LMAO, the poms are’nt quite right in the head are they. simply dont get it.
26 Sep 2007, 10:11 am
Hahahaha he is indeed kak with a capital S. If anyone in that Irish backline is overrated it is him. Good player for Munster in the same way that Willem de Waal is a great player for FS!
26 Sep 2007, 10:11 am
Speaking of flyhalves, Butch is having a great World Cup. Andre is nowhere.
26 Sep 2007, 10:12 am
Ooooooh careful cab. Jones is a Welshman, not technically a pommie!
26 Sep 2007, 10:16 am
#64. Just as well he can kick with that new ball everyone is complaining about. His field kicking against the poms was excellent. Great player is Butch, hasn’t yet fulfilled his potential, heres hoping. Still get hacked off with the English commentary who can’t let go of the past. Have yet to watch a game where Butch has made a strong tackle and the commentator hasn’t made a comment about his old style of “tackling”. Let it go and leave the guy alone!
26 Sep 2007, 10:18 am
#49 agree but Francois Pienaar was NOT a great player, just a great leader.
26 Sep 2007, 10:24 am
jonnymain:
I watched the Ireland v France game the other night. One of the Irish players cut the French fullback in half and the commentators went on and on about what a great tackle it was and how he led with the shoulder and one arm but then wrapped the other arm around the tackled player. But it was quite legal they assured us, oh yes. Perspective is everything, isn’t it?
26 Sep 2007, 10:27 am
right you are jonny, but they all have that war attitude, its the way they view the game, only way they know how…all a bit dom.
26 Sep 2007, 10:34 am
Personally cab I’d consider the English to be alone in that mentality. The Welsh have a rich tradition of producing flair players, not the type to try to run over the opposition – they just aren’t big enough! Will always defend my Celtic brothers against any charges of Englishness!
26 Sep 2007, 10:54 am
“for our capt”
doesn’t quite send the same chill down ones’ spine as
“GERONIMO!”
does it?
16. we’ve all forgotten about that tackle now and Macaw certainly didn’t go on about it, at the time or 1,2,or 3 years later….and I doubt that he will be writing a book about it somehow, he has bigger brighter events in his career.
Mortlock is the #1 centre in the last 10 years IMO, he is a fantastic linebreaker, a reasonably smart (for an Aussie!) distributor, and an accurate goalkicker as well.
26 Sep 2007, 10:56 am
That guy is a God.
26 Sep 2007, 11:03 am
Mortlock is a big, strong guy but for me hasn’t got the class or gamebreaking ability of BOD.
26 Sep 2007, 11:06 am
fair enough jonny, the welsh seem like a decent lot, but ‘for our captain’ – LMAO, you’d have to hose.
26 Sep 2007, 11:08 am
Yeah that was a bit of a bad one! We all say stuff at one time or another that doesn’t quite sound right!
26 Sep 2007, 11:11 am
1. Sheridan 2. Mealamu 3. Hayman
4. Bakkies 5. Matfield
6. Burger 7. McCaw 8. Juan/Collins
9. FdP 10. Carter
12. Giteau/Jauzion 13. Mortlock/Bod
11. Habana 14. Roc 15. Latham
I’d also go Mortlock, but Bod is very good.
26 Sep 2007, 11:17 am
Tana is your generic mediocre player who plays dirty, yet because he’s from NZ he simply gets the reputation of being “hard”. He’s the prime example of a guy who had a few skills, and as age starts to take them away he substitutes them with dangerous and illegal tactics (see also: Brian Lima) so as to keep some edge on the field.
To paraphrase Big Hit, could you even imagine the consequences if Dan Carter had been drilled like that by 2 Boks? We’d be looking at life bans, without a doubt.
I do sympathise with BOD that he’s been labelled a whinger, as I feel he was done a serious injustice, and his presence would’ve made the Lions tour look a hell of a lot different.
26 Sep 2007, 11:22 am
“and New Zealand’s impressive rugby site, Rugbyheaven.co.nz…….”
Could it be that we will be reading some more news from the land of the long white cloud from now on?
After all this sucking up I’m sure we’d have to get something out of the deal…
26 Sep 2007, 11:25 am
Oh no cab, not that old debate again!
Here’s mine (on current form)
1.Woodcock 2.Smit (capt) 3.Hayman
4. Thion 5. Vic
6.Juan 8.Chabal 7.McCaw
9.FdP 10.Carter
12.Giteau 13.JF
11.Habana 15.Latham 14.Clerc
26 Sep 2007, 11:26 am
I am really sorry that this kind of public sledging ever tokk place in Rugby. Brian O’Driscoll is without a doubt one of the most talented and legendary players ever to grace the field and I find it dissapointing that he actied in the way he did. I’m taking the comments from both sides with a pinch of salt of course.
On the other hand Tana is an absolute legend of the game himself. I really don’t thnik he did it on purpose, and it wasn’t even that big a deal.
I’m certain that Brian wouldn’t have acted the way he did if he didn’t have such a bunch of idiots surrounding him. I blame it all on the English.
26 Sep 2007, 11:29 am
BO who. oh yea, the captain of that shite team who nearly lost to the georgians. tonga gave us a scare too but at least tonga have a long history and no disrespect to those awesome georgian forwards.
Irish on the way home to guinnessland. doesnt sound that bad actually!
26 Sep 2007, 11:40 am
lol johhny,
yours is probably more representative, giving the french a shout and all, also like clerk and rougerie, french have some great wingers and centres.
26 Sep 2007, 11:56 am
Yeah, Jauzion would normally be in my team but he hasn’t fired yet. Impressed with Clerc above the rest as well, reminds me a bit of Dominici from a few years back. Chabal, well anyone who can break Ali Williams jaw without even trying gets my vote!
26 Sep 2007, 12:12 pm
O’Driscoll’s an incredible player but an absolute hypocrite. He is always involved in off the ball incidents and unecessary niggle.
And Woodward with his spin doctor…I hope modern rugby does not adopt this kind of cr*p.
26 Sep 2007, 12:15 pm
Very interesting post.
26 Sep 2007, 12:34 pm
Kiakaha #9.
Amen.
26 Sep 2007, 12:40 pm
OCO #30,
The Citing Official on the day was a Saffa. He pronounced there was no case to answer.
26 Sep 2007, 12:45 pm
Rugby Princess,
Your “sweetheart” post ……as always a joy to read.
Your feminine touch and humour bring light to threads where darkness prevails.
26 Sep 2007, 12:50 pm
Fern #31.
You dumb arse. Try swallowing your own tongue instead of spouting medical facts you nothing about.
26 Sep 2007, 12:55 pm
LondonShark,#47.
I agree. Fully. Without reservation.
Not only was/is BOD a great player, but he carries an averge Team to heights above their normal calling.
And he is a fookin great guy as well. And so is Tana.
26 Sep 2007, 13:04 pm
Twig,
“He’s the prime example of a guy who had a few skills, and as age starts to take them away he substitutes them with dangerous and illegal tactics ”
21 Tests as AB Capt, for 18 wins.
Somehow I think you may be a prime example of something akin to a ……..well you get the picture don’t you.
26 Sep 2007, 13:06 pm
With or without O’Driscoll the Lions would still have been tamed. He is a girl’s blouse. Best centre in the world, my hairy white arse!!!!
Look forward to the Lions arriving in SA next time around.
26 Sep 2007, 13:09 pm
Can’t wait for the Ireland vs Argentina game on Sunday….. It’s going to be a cracker!!!!
26 Sep 2007, 13:17 pm
I think Brian O’Driscoll is a very good, even great, player, but I lost a lot of respect for him after this incident. The way he bleated and whinged about what happened to him afterwards was frankly embarrassing.
There have been many far more blatant incidents of much more damaging foul play in the history of rugby, but there has never been a longer period of moaning afterwards.
Playing the victim for so long is not worthy of a captain of his country and this attitude seems to have permeated through his team. Ireland look unlikely to even qualify for the quarter finals and in the press they have not stopped moaning about the opposition, the group of death and the victimisation they have received in the press
Only Keven Mealamu and Tana Umaga truly know whether they intended to hurt him or whether it was just the unfortunate incident that Tana Umaga described. All the conjecture or accusations will never clear that up, but Brian O’Driscoll should put it behind him and get on with his career and stop whining like a stuffed pig.
26 Sep 2007, 13:32 pm
has anybody read gavin henson’s auto . well in the auto gavin explains that bod tried VERY HARD to take him out of the game in the 05 6N .
gavin claims bod dug his fingers into his eyes swearing at the same time . spear tackles happen on the playing feild half the time if not all the time unintentional , but gauging someones eyes ??? .
26 Sep 2007, 13:36 pm
I wouldn’t trust Henson any more than I trust Manto Tshabalala.
26 Sep 2007, 13:40 pm
remember BOD is the same guy who said in a pre WC interview that injuries to his oppositions would be an advantage to his team . though some say its an irish humour , any anthropologists out there ?
truth is said in jest i always say .
26 Sep 2007, 13:41 pm
96
you skim so ! he showed me bruises ( kidding you )
26 Sep 2007, 13:43 pm
I think that that Umaga and Mealamu were lucky there was no video footage of the incident, because if there was they would have been banned. I think they deserved some kind of ban for what they did, maybe it wasn’t intentional but they all players have a responsibility not to drop a player on his head.
26 Sep 2007, 13:56 pm
In his bio, does he mention the AB’s team talk that a big, early tackle on BOD was key to throwing a confident Lion’s team off-track. No. So the article is out of context!
BOD never recovered for the series and neither did the Lions. As a spectacle the series was ruined with that early, single ‘tackle’
26 Sep 2007, 14:05 pm
100-
Lol, kidding me? You really think BOD getting injured was a huge factor in that series? Wake up.
26 Sep 2007, 14:14 pm
Tana and Keven Mealamu thought so too. Where were you at the time? On the Grog. LoL!
26 Sep 2007, 14:14 pm
Jock,
Grow a set of balls will you.
The B&I Lions weren’t thrown off by the loss of O’Driscoll in the first few minutes of test 1. That is a spin job worthy of Stephen Jones or the NH scribes!
They were supposedly the best prepared team of all time according to Woodward. As it turned out, they were quite possibly the most ill-prepared, ordinary, pathetic Lions squads ever assembled.
The Lions never stood a chance once Argentina had exposed them before they even set off from Britain.
Too many over-the-hill Englishmen taken, too many rubbish coaches, medieval tactics and too many egos caused the Lions downfall. Compare Woodward’s planning to that of McGeechan in 1997 or Henry in 2001 (both tours took place in professional era) and the Lions of 2005 will quite rightly be remembered as a complete and utter shambles!
26 Sep 2007, 14:15 pm
Is katman around?
26 Sep 2007, 14:28 pm
Cane $87,
Doesn’t excuse it. As you will see from the threads on this site, there is still a lot of hatred for anything from Europe amongst Saffas. The way most were brain-washed by the NP when they were in power I’m afraid Swart Gevaar only just pipped the ‘Europe Gevaar’ on the hit list for the NP. Now of course there’s still the ‘Europe Gevaar’ as pushed by the ANC, especially when it comes to Zim.
26 Sep 2007, 14:30 pm
Big Balls Strodders
- so if BOD was no threat why take him out? It was cowardly and very unlike the NZ character to do such a thing if they knew the side was so poor.
BOD was to the BL what Tana was to the AB’s. Except he never got a chance, he was mugged!
26 Sep 2007, 14:34 pm
So what if there was some degree of dirty play involve.It happens almost in every rugby match played.
In some instances players get hurt in some not.
What makes BOD so special.
26 Sep 2007, 14:43 pm
So Tana said to Kevin:”Here is BOD now, this is our chance let`s take him out.”
I don`t think so.
26 Sep 2007, 14:55 pm
You can go onto the field targeting a specific player with the intention of palying him off the field but the chance you will succeed is very slim.
There is a better chance you getting sent off eventually.
26 Sep 2007, 14:57 pm
Jock,
I don’t think O’Driscoll was targeted. Wrong place, wrong time. That’s all.
It’s funny, we Brits love to talk up the legendary “99″ call that the Lions used in SA in 1974 to show the Boks that they weren’t to be intimidated, yet in this day and age that tactic was an excuse for all out thuggery.
Umaga and Mealamu are labelled as thugs, yet Gareth Edwards and Willie John McBride and the Pride of ’74 are remembered as tough men who wouldn’t take a backwards step to an overtly physical, intimidatory Bok team.
Is it not a wee bit hypocritical of us to condone the actions of our own yet castigate the actions of our opponents?
26 Sep 2007, 15:34 pm
stodders,
Dont know if you ever got to see the behind the scenes of the Lions 99 tour.
My brother has a copy.
Interesting, especially since everything down South is based on playing thugby…
26 Sep 2007, 15:38 pm
And as far as the BOD incident goes…
Serves him right for pickin up a blade of grass!
26 Sep 2007, 15:41 pm
PA,
I have watched it. Jim Telfer is my hero
McGeechan and Telfer knew that the way to beat the Boks was to shape the Lions up to play physical, abrasive rugby, to take the hits, not whinge and keep coming back for more.
It was an awesome series. The Boks played most of the rugby and the Lions intimidated. I dislike Jerry Guscott with a passion, but when i watched that drop goal i remember that for a split second i loved the man!
26 Sep 2007, 16:22 pm
Great video and one for the collection if you are a rugby lover!
26 Sep 2007, 18:11 pm
Absolutely. Best Lions captain in Johnno, best coaches who led with heart and head, small frontrow to scrum low down and get under Os’s skin. Legendary stuff regardless of your nationality! F**k it, I’m going to order it off Amazon!
26 Sep 2007, 18:21 pm
cmon, anyone can see that it was actually Mealamu who lifted BOD off the ground. Tana looks impervious to Mealamu even being there and this contributed heavily. I feel slightly ashamed as a Kiwi that Tana didnt atleast see BOD off but only 2mins in to a Series-opening Test and a long break is not the best time for a Captain to be away from his troops.
I also feel sad because BOD is a star and a player to lift you out of your seat. He is the type of player you want your son to watch. He was mesmerising against The Aussies in the Lions Series of 2001. The NZ tour lost a main drawcard with his withdrawal and his bitterness is completely understandable. Being Lions Captain is the pinnacle of any UK/Ire player and with all his family there you cant help but feel for the guy. Certainly the ABs could have handled it better, how tough can it be ?!
But if anyone was to be hung out to dry it was Mealamu. And Woodward knew that but, of course, there was more to be gained by focussing on the AB Capt. So Woodward and Campbell took that conscious decision and, for that, sympathy wanes considerably.
26 Sep 2007, 18:32 pm
Amen BlackPanther. A balanced view from a Kiwi, obviously you are a rugby fan as well as a Kiwi. Those playing down BODs talents have short memories or actually know nothing about rugby at all.
26 Sep 2007, 18:45 pm
BOD is the best centre of the modern pro age. Superb on his feet. I can only dream about how many tries our wingers would score if he was born a Kiwi. I feel ashamed he was treated that way in my country. We are too rugby-obsessed at times and that was a perfect example of something being bigger than the game.
But once Woodward and Campbell got their grubby hands all over it, the ‘public sympathy vote’ just evaporated. Despite the fact that Tana could have been better advised he was still merely a player, part of a squad. But I cant recall a more egotistical man in rugby than Clive (“the winning England team was 60% players, 40% management”) Woodward and what should otherwise have been an outpouring of sympathy for BOD from the NZ public was soon separated like oil and water. To support BOD was to support Woodward and that, dear readers, was NEVER going to happen down under.
26 Sep 2007, 19:02 pm
BP it wouldn’t happen outside of the poncy Rara’s who live in the South East of Pomland never mind Down Under!
26 Sep 2007, 19:05 pm
Yes, anyone who tries to detract the achievements of that England team away from messrs Johnno, Jonny, Hill and Lozza needs psychiatric monitoring.
26 Sep 2007, 22:23 pm
#77
What a stupid post,how many times have you seen Tana use dirty play?
He is one of my mates,my dad coached him from juniors up to about 15 years old,he use to come around and stay at out house and i still see him once and a while.Not once have i seen him play dirty,the spear tackle on BOD was bad but there were two people doing that.He is not a lier and i believe on what he says.Then again Twig could be BOD and he is still going on about it
26 Sep 2007, 22:32 pm
Thank you BP. Thank God for a balance view from a Kiwi.
Bertie BigBolloxStrodders
i am not one of you. Please don’t make that mistake.
Go Bokke for RWC 07 & the hereafter!
26 Sep 2007, 23:01 pm
#118
Dude i think you should calm down about the praising of BOD,he was/is a good player but he wasnt goping to get us more tries for the wings,thats just laugable.Tana was just as good if not better than BOD,Tana had an all round game,he wasnt scared to get in a ruck and clear out if he was the only there,he would get up of the ground after a tackle and try to claim the ball ,not run back into position.
Someone said it earlier in a post that BOD would be the first to an altercation and join in,i have seen this many a time from him.
27 Sep 2007, 00:23 am
116 blackpanther everything you say is right in a perfect world. I think Tana gave a reasonable account of himself at the time of the injury. He was also captaining a team in a serious match and his headspace had to be and was taken up with what his men needed next from him.
Going to see OD was not going to help him (OD) in anyway. The other side of the coin is would O’Driscoll have done the same for Tana? We’ll never know. Tana was probably of the same ilk as many of the old school- if the kitchens too hot dont go in.
Yes I feel sorry for him, I feel sorry for Larkham and I feel sorry for Piri Weepu, Rico Gear, Mullet man and all the others that are casualities in their own way,the positive being is that at least O’Driscoll knows he was King for a day.
27 Sep 2007, 03:20 am
Sadly Tana has lost his dad. From the NZ Herald :
Tana Umaga should be celebrating the launch of his new autobiography, but instead the former All Black captain is mourning the death of his beloved father who persuaded him to swap soccer for rugby.
Last night the centre known for his crunching tackles told how the last few days had been tough on him and his family, but paid tribute to the impact his father had on shaping his rugby career.
Paegauo “Falefasa” Ropati Umaga, who died on Saturday aged 77, decided his son would make a far better All Black than an All White although the young Umaga’s passion was soccer. “I wanted to play soccer for the school but so did everybody else: they had so many kids they had to pick names out of a hat and I missed out,” Umaga said in his autobiography Tana Umaga Up Close.
“I asked Dad if I could play club soccer and he took me down to the mall to enrol me in rugby. Seven years old and already an ex-soccer player,” he said. When a teenage Umaga showed promise in rugby league his father nearly disowned him, said sister Janice. “But he was sneaky, Dad: ‘If you loved me, you’d give it up.’ He wouldn’t talk to Tana for a while because he played rugby league but every time Tana had a game you’d see Dad’s car somewhere around and you’d know he’d be hidden behind a tree or something.”
In the book, Mr Umaga said his son was “a good boy”.
27 Sep 2007, 05:11 am
BOD in the All Blacks? Give me a break! Most of the time he thinks he is Beckham and the rest he’s Harry Potter. Like Harry he never really got the gist of the “REPARUM” charm. Shame really, he would have been humiliated by a team that could really fly, if he had played.
Dame Clivid, who makes Dame Edna look Butch, proved he was no no Professor Dumbledore but Lord Voldemort, a POSEUR and a LOSER!
Get a life Big Hit, or better still a decent team of young men, rather than old pansies. The Opium Pushing Slave Traders are nothing but wind. Go Tonga, you could even send the Criminals home. Godless mothers!
Captain Sook and the Choirboys will exit this weekend, good riddance, possibly the Village Idiots, and the Not-so-Bravehearts.
So my earlier predictions, of an all SH last four, and only one in the Quarters, are close to reality. Go back and read your comments Big Hit to those predictions.
NZ v RSA the final, as it should be. NZ to win by thirty.
27 Sep 2007, 11:02 am
#123
Hurricane
dont be so precious about Tana. Nowhere did I say ‘BOD was better than Tana’ nor that I would prefer one over the other. I am a huge fan of Tana and part of my disappointment over the BOD debacle is that it unnecessarily tarnished his reputation. He was by no means a dirty player but a hard and fair one. And an excellent one. And to praise a different player that produces your reaction just shows you are too close to Tana so as to lose your objectivity. My opinion on BOD is that he was a fantastic player and given a role in a better team than Ireland – the All Blacks for example – he would have been even better. There is no denying he is one of the best players of the past 10yrs, as was Tana. But they have different strengths and weaknesses.
The problem with Kiwis is that they get a bit precious about their team and regard compliments in other directions as being a slight on their own, as if ‘noone is better than (AB)’. I have travelled the World follwoing the ABs and have only missed 1 RWC and as the RWC losses slowly racked up, Kiwis have got more sensitive to any criticism or perceived-slight. I think it is great that idfferent countries produce players with different skill sets, the Kiwis with their blend of powerful Polynesian/Maori with Europeans and the Brits with their hardnosed direct approach. But as with most things, we have much to learn from each other and my only criticism of Tana was that the BOD situation could have so easily have been dealt with better. I would hate that to be in any way interpreted as supporting any trick Woodward tried to pull at the time because he is a repulsive cretin.
Nice story about Tanas Dad hiding behind the tree.
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