Robbie rates Boks
26 Sep 2007
Crusaders coach Robbie Deans believes the Boks are the only team that can stop the All Blacks winning the World Cup.
Deans, writing in the French Rugby Hebdo paper, praised John Smit and Jake White and said the Boks and All Blacks were the only two realistic contenders.
“There are about eight or 10 contenders who are trying to convince themselves they can win the World Cup. But there are only two who know they really can win it: New Zealand and South Africa.”
Deans sees White’s Springboks as the squad most likely to crash the All Blacks World Cup party.
“I am sure they (New Zealand) have the potential to play at a higher degree of intensity no matter who their adversaries are, except perhaps for South Africa,” wrote Deans. “There are three reasons the Boks can win this World Cup. The first is historic. And it is not only because the core of the squad is from the Under-21 side, coached by a certain Jake White, that became [Under-21] world champions in 2002 by dominating the final against a New Zealand team that included five players who are here in France, including Daniel Carter.”
Carter actually did not play and the Boks beat NZ in a semi-final 19-18. Nevertheless, Deans continued.
“These Boks have since notched up some considerable success, like the Tri Nations victory in 2004 or that of the South African sides in this year’s Super 14.
“White has at his disposal a mature squad that prides itself on considerable confidence, which is based as much on their performances as the depth of their bench, which has been markedly superior to whatever his predecessors had.”
Deans also believes the Springboks will head into the quarter-finals realising that for a number of them, this could represent a fairytale end to their careers. “Victory could be the culmination of some of their careers, for players like John Smit or Victor Matfield … not to mention [coach] White,” Deans wrote.
He added that while the Springboks have maintained their physical prowess, White has introduced a broader mindset to the squad.
“South African teams always fall back on their physical prowess and a mentality that is unfailing, but White has added certain mental flexibility,” he said.
Deans also pointed to the pride South African players have in wearing the Springboks jersey and the leadership of Smit as being pivotal, as well as Smit’s calmness under pressure.
“Smit is not only a respected captain. He is also a man who can keep his emotions buried deep inside when faced with the pressure moments,” he said.
278 Comments
26 Sep 2007, 00:26 am
what about the aussies ?
26 Sep 2007, 00:27 am
Good Call, I think we are in there with a Big Chance
Time will tell and hopefully it pans out to the SA vs AB final
26 Sep 2007, 00:33 am
Yep,but there are other teams that can do it as well
26 Sep 2007, 00:40 am
rugby fan
The Ausies have done well, but will take injuries and will burn out when they go into the playoffs.
The reason being, they have no depth and Larkham is already crocked for next match.
Lastly! Ausie as usual will not do well away from home when faced with a good Teams
26 Sep 2007, 00:49 am
I reckon he’s spot on, and with that the endless and enduring respect we have as New Zealanders for South African rugby.
The only thing I see as a bit of a stretch is going back 3 years to when SA last won the 3N, and glossing over the S14 this year – to me, winning this years 3N would have really told us something, but hey, Jake changed the format and sent a different team out.
In contrast to recent posts, we certainly wont be undercooked going into that final (should we make it) by having to take on the Frogs and the Wallabies to get there.
SA v Wales then Argentina, hmmm, makes it quite interesting.
26 Sep 2007, 00:50 am
chucks
in berrick they have found an aswer to larkham .
did you say you went to P’house
26 Sep 2007, 00:54 am
Nope it was Mount Pleasant
26 Sep 2007, 00:56 am
Mount Pleasant , that leafy area !! wonder if it is still good .
26 Sep 2007, 01:00 am
Well there you have it folks, from the mouth of the next All Black coach.
I bet there will be certain ex pat South Africans living in NZ who will hate Deans for saying this.
26 Sep 2007, 01:01 am
I have not been back since 1979!
But Google Earth still looks good there, anyhow I am tired now!
Chat later
Chuckwoodybumblespring
26 Sep 2007, 01:09 am
Ever heard of schmoozing?
26 Sep 2007, 01:11 am
No way will Deans coach the AB’s he has been down that road allready and made a hash of it
26 Sep 2007, 01:29 am
Morning all.
Deans has been mentioned as a possibilty to take over from Connolly after the RWC.
Nothing verified though, just a couple of reports in the local papers.
Would be an asset to Aussie rugby.
26 Sep 2007, 01:38 am
#13 it will never happen, they are too many old school heads against the ideal.
26 Sep 2007, 01:46 am
#14
Not discounting it. John O Neill has given the aussie rugby tree a hefty shake just recently.
perhaps this might be his next coupe.
26 Sep 2007, 01:53 am
the All Blacks must be favourites but if you look at their games to get to the final you have to say that winning will be a huge ask.
They have not been tested yet and then they are likely to play France, Wobblies, and SA in a very short space of time. Some games may got to extra time. BMT will be needed from the quarters and they have a lousy record against the French in the world cup. The French at home gaining confidence you have to say that the quarters NZ v France is key.
Then the semi’s they will have the “4 more years boys” still fresh in their minds.
Then is all goes well for SA the final and then memories of 1995 will come back to haunt. In short if they pull it off then we will all have to stand back nad say this is one of the best AB sides of all times.
26 Sep 2007, 01:55 am
Deans just doing the old favourite of trying to get the boks to believe their own press.
why do so few people see it!?
26 Sep 2007, 02:05 am
Danie Craven always said be careful if you opposition praises you too much!
26 Sep 2007, 02:17 am
Kesbok – well, according to you there is no lack of motivation is there.
I think many of the past lessons will have been well and truely learnt by this team, there’s more to just winning the cup for the class of 07, its finishing off what the others had started.
As said, any other team to win this will be a great side if they are to topple the All Blacks considering the amount of preperation thats gone in, but if they do, we’ll be the first to congratulate them.
26 Sep 2007, 02:43 am
Berrick is a greenhorn, he will be exposed behind a forward pack going backwards in the Qtrs v England.
26 Sep 2007, 02:53 am
Deans is very disrespectful in what he says. I’m happy NZers think like that, that is why they get turned over by teams like Aus and France.
26 Sep 2007, 03:17 am
CAVEAT: Don’t fall into the trap guys.
26 Sep 2007, 03:38 am
Deans is in line for the Aussie job. Wonder if he watched the Boks against Tonga. What “n gemors!Don’t write off the Aussie.They have mongrel
26 Sep 2007, 03:40 am
I dunno about anyone else, bu I am seriously worried about Argentina. We seem to be taking them fairly lightly, and no mention has been made of them yet. Yet they are going to be our semi’s contenders (assuming we beat Wales). They comprehensively outplayed France (no slouches, they have beaten us recently), and have the best defensive record in the tourney so far. Not one try! And they are in the supposed “group of death”!
They have a serious forward pack, are very physical to the point of being able to match the Boks, and have hugely creative playmakers. And a damn fine coach. They have run the BA’s close away, as well as the Boks in the past few years. They have beaten France 4 out of 5 times AWAY recently, and accounted for the Irish at home and away.
They have historically never beaten us before. BUT. This is a team to worry about. I hope Jake is paying attention, because I would hate that the first time the Pumas beat a Bok team is in the semis of the ’07 RWC.
26 Sep 2007, 03:49 am
Deans is an astute rugby coach , his record with the Crusaders speaks for that. Coming from him, these are words that make a bok supporter feel good even if he/she is an expat SA in NZ, Modawg.
I would take Deans to task on one point though – the Boks do not have depth on the bench whereas the AB’s do.
A question to all the conspiracy theory doubters. If Deans wanted to pull the wool over SA eyes, would he be making his thoughts known via a French newspaper for goodness sake?
26 Sep 2007, 04:14 am
21: Big Hit – how often do we get turned over by France? Twice in 10 years?
Lets see, played 13 won 10 lost 2 drawn 1 in the last 10 years.
We’ve never lost at Stade de France, and havent been beaten in Paris since 1973.
Our last loss to France was 7 years ago at Stade Velodrome.
Hardly being called turned over now is it?
26 Sep 2007, 04:18 am
and Big Hit, lets look at Englands record over the same time:
Played 16, won 7, lost 9, drawn 0.
England have lost 9 times since 1997, so whats your excuse?
26 Sep 2007, 04:26 am
Quite the contrary I think Aus are a far bigger threat to NZ than RSA at the moment… with or without Larkham…
As for depth… ironically the Wobblies have a far stronger 30 man squad than the Boks…
26 Sep 2007, 04:30 am
I reckon that Deans was just taking the draw into consideration. Our team will more than likely play the AB’s in the semi’s and will probably lose a close one. On the other side of the draw you have SA, The poor form of the NH teams leaves SA as the only real contender. End result is a SA v NZ final. In saying that but I feel that if SA should be glad that they are not playing France. I feel that they are a team that realistically would beat SA.
26 Sep 2007, 04:54 am
Hurray!!!! Steyn has been cleared
26 Sep 2007, 05:09 am
Bryce – I fully agree with you, I really think that if any team has a real chance of knocking us over its actually Australia, then SA.
Aus just seem to know how to out smart us, and should we see that one off, we then have to take on the Boks which is a different contest, like playing a head strong England of 2003.
Aus certainly have a far more constructive backline able to pull of minor miracles, and I think the AB’s have enough knowledge on how to difuse the SA rush defence – which on the face of it, was never once tested by England was it!
Where Aus are weak, as a perception, is the forwards, but they have plenty of ammo to take us on out wide.
World cup may soon get interesting.
Quota – he was never guilty, but boy didnt get a reaction!
26 Sep 2007, 05:16 am
The Aus scrum has never looked better, barring the ‘perceived’ front-row weakness… they match the both NZ and RSA from 4-8… and on current form their lock pairing equals the Boks and surpasses NZ…
As for the backs, yep… they are smart and brimming with talent…
Only need compare the performance of Cooper, Barnes, Mitchell, Shepherd to what the Bok dilettantes produced last week…
May you Kiwi’s and Wobblies bash the living s@#t out of each other leading into the finals against the Boks…
26 Sep 2007, 05:21 am
Sjambok
The Pumas did beat us once,with Hugo Porta at the helm,somewhere in the eighties I think.
26 Sep 2007, 05:25 am
Intresting to read this same article in the Sydney morning herald was titled Wallabies No Chance – R Deans
Hilarious
26 Sep 2007, 05:27 am
Manly Bok I think it was a South American combined team called the jaguars but basically the Pumas
We thumped them by 50 the following week or the previous week from memory
26 Sep 2007, 05:28 am
Hehe horns,smacks of today/tonight.
26 Sep 2007, 05:28 am
Bryce in Oz please dont ever talk about Rocky Elsom and our back row in the same sentence again !
26 Sep 2007, 05:30 am
I refuse to watch that prgram they re hash the same stories over and over.
Remember
when we sent out our B team earlier this year and ARU said we had promised to send our A team. Funny that me and everyone who reads this site knew JW’s intentions in March already – fools.
26 Sep 2007, 05:32 am
Yep horns apparently they were always known as the jaguars,as that is their emblem ,but a SAfrican commentator called it a Puma way back and it stuck.
26 Sep 2007, 05:33 am
Kia Kia you are living in a time warp of 5-6 years ago. Australia has lost the wood on NZ years ago look at the results pal. NZ flog them 4 in every 5 games. SA is the only team you fear as you hate our confrontational style.
26 Sep 2007, 05:34 am
And by the way I would love it if the Wobblies did beat you cause they have no chance of beating us in the final I fear them like a wet piece of spaghetti
26 Sep 2007, 05:34 am
We dont need to be rated by Deans.We know where we stand.Especially after the Tongan game.
Go talk up your own team and organize a ticker tape parade for them when they get back.Cup or no Cup!
26 Sep 2007, 05:36 am
Anvil please stop acting like a typical bonehead with your laager mentality, please. This guy is one of the best if not the best coach going around, accept his comments gracefully as they have menaing. I ask you again please
26 Sep 2007, 05:50 am
4.
“Lastly! Ausie as usual will not do well away from home when faced with a good Teams”
apart from having won two World Cups away from home you might have a point
26 Sep 2007, 05:51 am
horns, No argument about his coaching pedigree mate.albeit only at provincial level.
But we dont need these distractions and rantings by the opposition now do we ?
Stay focused and get on with the job at hand.Deans can go fly a kite and keep his mouth shut while he is at it.
26 Sep 2007, 05:56 am
Hey Vindicated,
Hows your alcoholic,balding,cocaine sniffing,wife beating chokers cricket team doing?
26 Sep 2007, 06:07 am
hey guys…..a weird question…but what religion is schalk and bakkies?
26 Sep 2007, 06:15 am
Buddhist and Muslim…
26 Sep 2007, 06:19 am
LMFAO biOZ.
I think they are both devoted Chrstians.Why ?
26 Sep 2007, 06:36 am
no, seriously…?
26 Sep 2007, 06:42 am
Anvil…cos i looked up schalk burger on youtube wanting to see his big hits…and saw some movie of a guy who looked exactly like schalk and the caption read “schalk celebrating birthday traditional jewish style”
26 Sep 2007, 06:48 am
Lol, if Schalk wore a yamulka over his blond locks maybe they would stop blowing him up in the loose
Can definitely see Bakkies as a peace loving Buddhist though.
26 Sep 2007, 06:51 am
Lol… I’ve seen that… you need glasses bud… it’s not Schalk ‘Burger’…
26 Sep 2007, 07:05 am
Montpellier – Wallabies scrumhalf George Gregan claimed on Tuesday that he helped persuade South African forward Victor Matfield to sign for French club Toulon in the middle of a Test match line-out.
Gregan, who will join All Blacks Anton Oliver and Andrew Mehrtens along with Matfield at the ambitious French second division side after the World Cup, has confirmed a bizarre exchange with the Springbok lock during last June’s Tri-Nations Test in Cape Town.
Gregan, who last Sunday led Australia to a 55-12 victory over Fiji to equal Englishman Will Carling’s captaincy record of 59 Tests, said he had been urged by Toulon rugby president Mourad Boudjellal to get Matfield’s agreement to a club contract.
Rugby’s most-capped player seized the moment before a lineout in the June 16 Test, which Australia lost 22-19 after leading 16-10 at half-time.
“During the match I said to Victor that I had a contract in my bag for him and that Toulon needed his response before the end of the day,” Gregan was quoted as telling French rugby journal Midi Olympique.
“On the next lineout I insisted and he said, ‘Get out of the way’.
“I told him I wanted his answer before the lineout was over, that he had to give me a sign with a nod of his head if he was OK (to sign it).
“He nodded and three days later he had signed his letter of intent.
So I believe that I partly had a role in the negotiations that got him.”
Gregan has confirmed the French report to the Sydney Morning Herald.
Gregan, who is expected to play his first game for Toulon on November 10, met with his new teammates last Monday following Australia’s 32-20 victory over Wales in Cardiff.
Toulon will be coached by former All Blacks centre Tana Umaga, who has returned to the club after starring for them on the field last season.
26 Sep 2007, 07:07 am
Watch all the yuppies (no not yarpies Tackler) start playing rugby instead of gholf.
26 Sep 2007, 07:07 am
Watch all the yuppies (no not yarpies Tackler) start playing rugby instead of gholf.
26 Sep 2007, 07:08 am
friggin web is so slow the last 2 days.
26 Sep 2007, 07:08 am
It is just gonna be one big happy family at Toulon
They would beat England in a test match next year with the amount of stars in their team
26 Sep 2007, 07:10 am
Xkreni
Hoe gaan dit boet?
Ek het nog nie van jou gehoor of jy by 7 sai ooit vir n Kpl Venter of Luit Arnold raakgeloop.?
26 Sep 2007, 07:13 am
#55 — gHolf?
Where the pHutt on the gHreen?
Ghood ghrief!
26 Sep 2007, 07:14 am
Horns, I aint livin in the past brother, Aussies beat us this year, we respect that, albeit, a tough schedule for our lads, but they still won.
SA on the other hand have pushed us close at home, and won a couple of games on their home tracks, Capetown and Rusty, we lost that game, handed it to you lot on a plate. Was pretorious using the sand line system back then? probably not.
hey look, I dont know why you keep saying we fear this and that, because I dont subscribe for one moment there is a Bok that fears the All Blacks and vice versa, OK? cant you just let that Saffa chest thumping be wheeled out for other nations?
Be a bit humble in your aspirations until the deal is done.
26 Sep 2007, 07:29 am
Whats going on in Kiwiland this morning?
Tackles showing glimpses of a sense of humour and Kiakaha being gracious and subjective…
Nerves maybe?
26 Sep 2007, 07:33 am
Nerves, hardly, as cool as a cucumer today mate,
have just finished reading an article by Brian Moore, the ex pom hooker, re the Pom v Samoa game, and its a good read.
Suffice to say, had England actually got their act together a little while ago, they could have mounted a challenge we all expected of them when they played the Boks. That they didnt is a tragedy, in that it took away a decent work out for the Boks A team.
With the Boks about to play Wales – most likely, it looks their run in to the finals could be a bit soft, anyone agree?
26 Sep 2007, 07:37 am
hey Big Hit, you’re getting soft in your old age mate, still havent received an excuse from you regarding Englands dismal record against France in the last 10 years, you hit the wall man?
26 Sep 2007, 07:40 am
Kia
Thats providing Argentina beat Ireland. If thats the case, our half of the draw includes Boks, Wales, Scotland/Italy and Argentina.
A hell of a lot more comfortable than the Blacks, Australia, England and France on the other side…
26 Sep 2007, 07:53 am
If it’s an AB/Bok final then I feel that SA have a better than 50/50 chance of winning the WC. As GH said after the Scotland game, the reason for so many mistakes was that the Scots really came at them and played an “in your face” game. This has been the one area, under JW, that SA have managed to upset the ABs rythmn on attack and they do it far better than the Scots.
The only other side to regularly threaten the ABs is Australia, and they do it in a more thoughtful way. I have a feeling that our normal approach, with the addition of Eddie’s insight, will ask far more questions of the ABs than they’ve experienced in the past.
The move that led to Bobby’s try, with backs and forwards effortlessly combining at speed out wide, is one that should have given GH a few things to think about. Matfields sublime timing of his pass at speed, in that movement, finally showed that when our forwards are involved in the backline they’re no longer getting in the way and slowing things down, but thinking like backs.
My only concern is the quality of the AB forwards in the tight loose. What I wouldn’t give to know that AJ was there.
Of course the ABs still have to get past France and Australia, which is far more hazardous than SAs route.
26 Sep 2007, 08:00 am
Eddie Moans says every team is entitled to one bad game, and we had ours last Saturday.
Uphill from here.
26 Sep 2007, 08:05 am
I feel like rambling on.
The A side will have to play every single game from here on in, even the USA.
The 2nd stringers are just along for the ride.
Joke.
26 Sep 2007, 08:05 am
David – I couldnt agree more, and we acknowledge the specific threats and dangers presented by the Boks.
Some of things we have seen are top drawer play from the Boks, and put it this way, does any team like playing against another team in your face all day, probably not.
the trick is to then isolate that part of the game and keep it moving – hence a distinct strength you failed to mention, the fitness and the impact off the bench, as we saw in Durban.
Its not all plain sailing for any team, but I dont think we have seen the best of the All Blacks yet, and I think that is qute deliberate too as part of their pool play execution.
Scotland was a work in progress, McCaw opting to kick at goal, playing the passage lines through the middle, no rolling mauls, and focussing on two key areas only, getting our scrum right and lineout right, we won all 18 of our lineouts, with Thorne at lock.
So, its all a bit premature isnt it, should we play France, then Aus, (win em both) and play you lot in the final, I still think we will see some changes in tactics specifically for that game.
26 Sep 2007, 08:06 am
David
I still think that The ABs vs France in the quarters is an accident waiting to happen, hence my nerves comment to ol’ Kia
If ever I have wanted Argentina to win a game, its the Irish game…
26 Sep 2007, 08:07 am
Bod – exactly mon ami, the Bok run in looks like a couple of training runs, compared to the AB’s taking on France then Aus then SA, tough track that one.
26 Sep 2007, 08:09 am
Bod – no not nervous, or even anxious, we know what they’re capable of, even at their top end, key is to hussle them, and not let them get the space they need.
France can be a tough nut to crack and can also roll over like a fat cat.
26 Sep 2007, 08:10 am
off to the gym lads, enjoy the day/night where ever you are
26 Sep 2007, 08:21 am
Kia
The only solace you can take out of playing France is that the ABs will always have a greater chance whilst they persist with their new image of trying to play a more structured game.
If they revert back to their traditional “kamikaze” style of play and it pans out on the day, they will be a handfull…
26 Sep 2007, 08:36 am
Kia
Our problem, as bloggers, is that we tend to take a theoretical approach to these games. The idea that the coaches are keeping plays and tactics hidden to use in the final is a bit far fetched considering that from the QFs on, each game is a fight for survival.
I have a feeling that GH is secretly hoping that England will out muscle the Wobblies as they pose far less of a threat to the ABs than Australia, who genuinely believe they know how to beat the ABs, having done it once this year.
England might have found a better balanced side than the one that played SA, but their weaknesses are exactly where the ABs are most potent.
The ABs crunch match is going to be France and SAs Argentina. I don’t think either is a forgone conclusion. This Argentinian side is not comparable to the ones we’ve met in the past and nobody really knows what the French will be like. One worrying indication for the ABs, though, is the way they took Ireland to the cleaners in the lineouts.
26 Sep 2007, 08:40 am
Somewhat off the topic, but I would like to see Skinstadt at 8 and Burger at 6 during 2nd half for the remaining games.
While the game is tight, the combo of Burger, Smith and Van Heerder will do well. But later on we need another dimension to the loose trio.
I think Bob provides that.
26 Sep 2007, 09:14 am
Good article. One thing that this world cup has highlighted is that Jake White is the best coach for the job. Also that John Smit is the right guy to be heading the team. The comments over the last couple of years calling for both of their heads are proven ridiculous. Some of us South Africans are too quick to call for change when things aren’t going our way. Sometimes good hard work, self belief and perseverance are what you need to right the ship, not wholesale firings and changes in personnel. The reason we are in with a real chance of winning this tournament is because Jake picked the core of his team four years ago and has stuck with them, believed in them and given them invaluable experience over the last four seasons. All that learning would be wasted if we lost any players or coach. Also I believe Jake should get full credit for bringing in Eddie Jones, fresh ideas and an outsiders perspective definitely give us the edge. It is ridiculous however, to give full credit for the England game to Eddie. How much impact can one coach have in such a short time. By the same token then does he become a loser due to the Tongan game? We need to accept that this team and its performances are the culmination of a four year plan, with the benefit of experience, excellent physical preparation and some good insight from a great coaching team.
26 Sep 2007, 09:23 am
The biggest game for the Aussies will be the semi-final agaisnt the All Blacks
If we beat New Zealand sadly the final will be somewhat of an anti-climax
26 Sep 2007, 09:28 am
Hang on Mako, We have’nt won the Cup yet.
We are in an easy pool and have a more favourable draw than Aus,NZ or France/Argies.
Go Bokke!
26 Sep 2007, 09:30 am
Whatever!
I always get a bit worried when the Kiwis start to flatter us. A few bok fans are falling for it already I see. Deans is trying to boost our players into being cocky and over confident. The Boks should ignore everything Deans has to say and carry on with what they are doing.
Has anybody ever thought that the reason why the AB’s always fail is because they are talked up everytime and they become cocky and over confident. Deans is just trying to reverse the trend.
26 Sep 2007, 09:33 am
vindicated #78
You’re quite right there. The whole world is looking forward to an AB/Bok final.
26 Sep 2007, 09:42 am
I don’t think that Deans’ comments are only deceiving hype. It’s all factual and I think he is spot on. Almost all neutrals would feel that SA are the biggest threat to NZ in a once-off match. I don’t think any side would beat this crop of All Blacks in a best of 5 series. But this is the WC and 80 min is all that’s needed.
If our team keep calm we will be there come 20 Oct and it will then be close, whoever the opponent. In a final, experience will be vital.
Jake has been pointing this out for years and will now reap the rewards.
Slowly but surely, things are happening for the boks. Let’s just be careful of complacency.
26 Sep 2007, 09:45 am
Spot on 82:The Boks on there day can produce that freak ‘Bulls once year’ type performace where the packs goes nuts to such an extent that the backs also look good.
26 Sep 2007, 09:45 am
Remember Dee Hah, the fans won’t be on the field. I belive our squad has the maturety to survive the pressure.
26 Sep 2007, 09:46 am
Common sense
Who is a neutral?
I believe a neutral is someone who does not support rugby and has no idea about it. So they will guess who the best team is?
There will be no science/fact behind their decision.
Please use common sense?
26 Sep 2007, 09:47 am
Yeah Londonshark, and with the added “mental input” from Eddie Jones, you feel the Boks can actually threaten from the back if our tight 5 go crazy.
26 Sep 2007, 09:50 am
82
those once off wins have been few and far between for the Boks in the past 2 years.
Nice facts you use!!!
If you go by FACTS they will tell you that the Boks have the least chance of beating the AB’s in a once off game.
So are you really using facts to back your statement or does the word “FACT” have a different meaning in a saffa dictionary?
26 Sep 2007, 09:50 am
Walla, this is a rugby blog. Contact your local university’s Languages department for the point you want to make. I’m sure the other bloggers understand….Or am I wrong guys?
26 Sep 2007, 09:52 am
88.
I have taken to ignoring Wallabie completley, he is only here as a wind up.
26 Sep 2007, 09:53 am
Facts
The wallabies have beaten the AB in all their COMPETITIVE WC games.
Fact
The wallabies have beaten the AB’s this year a once off game.
Fact
In 2003 after a hiding in the trinations the wallabies still beat the AB’s in their ONE off game in the semis.
Fact
The Boks have only beaten the AB’s in one competitive WC game…with some aid from suzie.
I must add playing for 3 & 4 place is not playing for the world cup so it is not deemed a Competitive WC game.
26 Sep 2007, 09:53 am
Actually Walla, I only refered to facts when commenting on the comments of Deans’ statements. I never quoted stats of my own. But anyway. Good luck to your team.
26 Sep 2007, 09:54 am
If only the Aussies had conspired to finish 2nd in their group they could have knocked the Boks out in the Quarter Finals and avoid the All Blacks in the semis
would have set up the perfect final with the number 1 and 2 sides in the world meeting each other
26 Sep 2007, 09:55 am
Asterix, I think Walla is the Aus quota for this blog. Wouldn’t want to discriminate..
26 Sep 2007, 09:55 am
Common sense,true,Alister Coetzee must feel like such a ****,he’s been our backline coach for 4 years and Eddie’s done more with them in 2 months.
Go Edddie!
26 Sep 2007, 09:56 am
Heard this story on BBC 5 yesterday.
Clint Eastwood may direct an upcoming Hollywood film based on former South African President Nelson Mandela and his appearance at the 1995 Rugby World Cup final, US media reported on Tuesday.
Oscar-winner Eastwood has been linked to the film as plans take shape for the post-apartheid drama, that will see Morgan Freeman portray Mandela, entertainment industry journal Daily Variety reported.
Matt Damon is in talks to play Springboks captain Francois Piennar, the report added.
The film is to be based on a book by British journalist John Carlin, “The Human Factor: Nelson Mandela and the Game That Changed the World.”
It will focus on events surrounding the Rugby World Cup in South Africa 12 years ago and how Mandela used the tournament — won by the host nation — to bring whites and blacks together.
Mandela appeared in a South Africa jersey to present the trophy to captain Piennar after the final at Ellis Park in Johannesburg, which has become an iconic moment in the history of the country and sport.
26 Sep 2007, 09:57 am
Sorry Mr Deans, our resident idiot Tacitus says that Jake White is useless, so you must be wrong.
26 Sep 2007, 09:58 am
93
I wish it were true, but with morons like Vindicated and Wallabie hanging around (until their boys get silenced) I tend to stay clear of Keo.co.za when I see they are logged in.
The Aussie quota should be reset to zero.
26 Sep 2007, 09:58 am
So Walla, you then “objectively” classify matches as being “competitive” or not??
Criteria: Aus win = competitive\Aus lose = non-competitive.
This is probably Aussie stats 101.
26 Sep 2007, 09:58 am
I am not having a wind up…just telling the truth!
Some saffas dont like the truth so they write it off as a wind up.
It is best to keep the feet firmly set to default – on ground zero.
Common sense
If you are ‘copying and pasting’ Deans statements or a greeing with them…you are agreeing with him!!!
get it!
I got to go
remember common sense!!
26 Sep 2007, 09:59 am
Matt Damon can’t pull off a Pienaar…I think they should ask Dulf Lungran
26 Sep 2007, 09:59 am
98
No
you failed
Just use common sense…you will work it out!!!
26 Sep 2007, 09:59 am
Maar die bloubulle kan nog steeds nie verstaan hoekom Gary Botha nie in die span is nie ☺
26 Sep 2007, 10:00 am
Yeah, with that advise, I’m out: like Aus in the Semis. Chat to you guys later
26 Sep 2007, 10:00 am
theaardvark
That is quite possibly the worst news I have ever heard in my life.
26 Sep 2007, 10:01 am
great compliment from a great coach.
still i think both Oz and France also have very good squads who can quite easily cause an upset. Nz v Oz and Fr v SA are both semis that can quite easily go either way.
26 Sep 2007, 10:02 am
And its true as well
26 Sep 2007, 10:03 am
kerneels #100
I think they should get Tiaan Strauss to play the part.
26 Sep 2007, 10:05 am
matt damon will have to gain about a foot in height to play pienaar, he makes a convincing Jason Bourne, but Pienaar I am not sure.
26 Sep 2007, 10:06 am
104 – They interviewed Joel Stransky about it but failed to ask him, who he would like to play him.
26 Sep 2007, 10:10 am
Cab, Your forgetting that it very well might be the Argies we’re up against in the semi.
26 Sep 2007, 10:12 am
Anvil 79
We don’t need to win the world cup to see that we have the right coach and captain in place. Simply the fact that we have been playing the way we have been and that the opposition are rating us as the major threat in this world cup is enough to prove that. We are going to reach the final, of that there is no doubt, then on the day the team that wants it most will win it. There is nothing between the All Blacks and the boks at the moment and either team could win. Jake has already proven that he is the best coach in SA. Rugby coaches, writers and commentators around the globe agree on that. If he were to look for a job now he would be snapped up in seconds. Why should the team have to win the cup to prove that? Does that mean that the 95 all blacks had wrong coach and captain because they didn’t win the cup? If all of the ridiculous blatherings on this site had been made into reality over the last year our captain would be Luke Watson, hooker would be Schalk Brits, coach would be Rassie or Heyneke and we would probably be lucky to reach the quarters. I just find it sad that we can’t support our coach and captain until after they have won. This means that they will have had a couple of weeks full support from their country after four years on the job. The last three years have seen them slated on this site being called derogatory names such as Barney and Joke White and numerous calls for them to be replaced. Try and find a Kiwi who doesn’t think the sun shines out of Graham Henry or Richie poster boy. That is why they are so strong guys, they have a nation behind them. Can you imagine being John Smit and reading this site before going on for a game, would you feel like giving your all for a bunch of “fans” who behave like a group of adolescent girls at a tupperware party?
26 Sep 2007, 10:20 am
cab, do you think irelend are going to beat argentina,
26 Sep 2007, 10:22 am
if john smit has the time to read this before any game we are in trouble
26 Sep 2007, 10:24 am
109 – Probably Ben Stiller.
26 Sep 2007, 10:24 am
Anvil,
yip true.
surreyshark,
tough one, i’d say yes, but ireland have been poor and the argies are looking good, if their defense holds they could get the bonus point which ensure they go through even if they lose.
what u reckon?
26 Sep 2007, 10:26 am
Realistically we all know we can beat NZ – but the fact we havent achieved parity is, well, a fact. It will be a remarkable achievement indeed, if we were to suddenly beat them when it counts.
History would again be repeating itself. But we all know we cannot rely on history – has a way of deceiving you when you least expect it. If anyone out there is relying on NZ to choke, you are on very thin ice. It will be far more satisfying, to me at leat, if NZ played the game of their lives, as did SA. Under such a mindset the game itself takes rightful ascendency over who wins it. The fact your or my team must win is an extra bonus, not, IMHO, the whole point.
26 Sep 2007, 10:32 am
For all the Bok fans getting all carried away again could I suggest that the French victory against a settled and cohesive Irish side was a bigger achievement than the Boks win against a unsettled, in-experienced, average Currie Cup side outfit posing as England
You might need to carefully consider this fact before getting carried away about reaching the finals as if its some sort of right
26 Sep 2007, 10:35 am
117 – Just because you’ve had to deal with the reality of not seeing the finals, doesn’t mean we have to. We’re still in with a bloody good shout, remember.
26 Sep 2007, 10:39 am
117 you should be worried about the Australians , me thinks.
26 Sep 2007, 10:41 am
117
The English were poor, but we made them look worse. Disregarding their quality, what really matters is that the Boks played a clinical and technically correct game. Any team watching that display would feel nervous about facing the Boks playing the way they did when they beat England.
Reaching the finals will take more of the same sort of rugby, but at least we know that we have it in us. Wales shouldn’t pose any real threat to us, but France/Argentina playing at their best will stretch us hard. Experience in our Bok team is what will help us to overcome that threat.
Should we compete in the final, which is likely, that experience will prove crucial. We really can win this world cup. It is the most realistic chance we have of taking it and our odds should be better than 95, where homeground advantage and passion carried the day.
26 Sep 2007, 10:41 am
let hope the Pumas end no.1 in their pool. then the french will take out all blacks. if AB’s beat frogs then they’ll face the aussies. aussies the most intelligent team.
26 Sep 2007, 10:43 am
mako, spot on, except i think we will need our best XV to stand a chance of upsetting the ABs, i.e no more injuries and no more citings, which seems unlikely.
26 Sep 2007, 10:43 am
it’s one thing knowing you can beat the AB’s. it’s another to actually do it! french wont lose a game again in this WC!
26 Sep 2007, 10:44 am
France have no chance against the ABs. some sides are easier for certain sides and the ABs well and truly have ground France into the dirt recently.
26 Sep 2007, 10:44 am
The Bok’ss seem to be the only top team that is not relying on imported players in their squad. Montgomery is the only one and I am sure he or his parents did not come to SA for him to play rugby. The Argentinians are also a home team with one borne outside. All the rest have lots of imports.
And there are several SA borne players in that lot.
Just an interesting fact I found looking at the squads
26 Sep 2007, 10:51 am
Mako,
If NZ dare go back homw without the Cup,then I would fear for Poster boy’s and Headmasters life.
Ja,Jake has done a good job despite the circus has to work in.Getting Eddie Moans was also a masterstroke.Hope it will all payoff when it matters.
But in reallity JW’s stint will end after the WC and only a win will keep him in the hunt for another term.
B
26 Sep 2007, 10:53 am
ESEA
Ever heard of the “global village” or the do you live in SA where news travels a little slower – either that or the comprehension, understanding of news is slower in SA
26 Sep 2007, 10:58 am
127 – Yes, I have. You’re its idiot, aren’t you?
26 Sep 2007, 11:04 am
am still praying the frogs **** the ABs in the quarters.
getting sick of hearing every day about the Abs that and the Abs that. Media is saturated with AB crappy stories.
no ones even considering the scenario if the french win.
“four more years Byron suck on that”
26 Sep 2007, 11:04 am
128 # Katman – very funny!
26 Sep 2007, 11:08 am
Well, if Deans says so, who am I to argue?
The man won like what? 6 Super14 titles?
Compare that with my glowing reputation as fanatical fanaticly fanatic fan and you have New Zealand vs Portugal all over again.
26 Sep 2007, 11:11 am
128 thanks katman 127 seems to talk before he far..s (Oops type O) speaks.
I for one are very much part of the “global village†borne in the UK and moved to SA at 11 months, started traveling the world at 20 years (that was some time back)and have settled in France. I am none the less a avid BOK supporter
26 Sep 2007, 11:12 am
I don’t buy into this whole Global Village thing…
If the world is a global village, then each country must be a suburb or a district….
I’m just worried that the US is Sandton, Europe is Hyde park and Africa is somewhere between Brakpan and Alexandra.
26 Sep 2007, 11:13 am
#132
I are too.
26 Sep 2007, 11:19 am
125.
seems like the Aussies are one of very few teams not relying on imported coaches
seems that we are exporting the quality to improve the lots of nations who are unable to do reach a higher standard with their own resources
26 Sep 2007, 11:25 am
cab. the all blacks nailed the froggs in 1999 before the WC by 40 aswell & we all know [except you] that games before the WC have no bearings on the WC.
26 Sep 2007, 11:26 am
“hey guys…..a weird question…but what religion is schalk and bakkies?”
I know Bakkies is a devout Christian, always see him praying on the field. I wonder what he prays for? Perhaps for the power to beat the **** out of any opposition member that comes near him?
26 Sep 2007, 11:28 am
fair enough long drop, yip suppose it might happen, guess you’d be putting a bet down on the frogs then?
26 Sep 2007, 11:29 am
I’m sure he prays for calmness and self-controll.
26 Sep 2007, 11:29 am
I already have $30 on the french at 13-1
26 Sep 2007, 11:31 am
Just a question, how many members of the Wallabie squad were not born in Aus?
26 Sep 2007, 11:31 am
right, cant argue with that, put your money where your mouth is, nice one.
PS: why you stopped advertising your website, used to do it every 2nd post or so?
26 Sep 2007, 11:31 am
Everyone get post 135 – you understand it ?
comprehendo ??
now shut up until you are capable of doing it on your own, without imported help from Australia
Louden, Campo, Jones – u ladies get it yet ?
26 Sep 2007, 11:31 am
#137 Bakkies a christian, you right. go and listen to Bakkies interview. click on my username[below] and follow link to interviews. don’t know about Schalk but knows he only drinks Castle!
26 Sep 2007, 11:32 am
133 – To be honest, I’d rather be the East Rand than Parklands, which is Australia in this analogy.
26 Sep 2007, 11:34 am
cab just click on my username. also have $20 on the Boks at 6-1. need the money!
26 Sep 2007, 11:35 am
lol…it sounds like it.
26 Sep 2007, 11:35 am
141.
who cares – only some inbred, inward looking, lager mentality, Bok supporters
26 Sep 2007, 11:37 am
I’ve got $100 NZ on the frogs..should be a nice return
cannot imagine what NZ will be like if the ABs
lose..
26 Sep 2007, 11:37 am
#141 tiquiri and Paulo born in Fiji? Vickerman -SA.
Gregan-Zambia
not sure of any more in WC squad
26 Sep 2007, 11:38 am
148,
unfortunately i tick all those boxes. hmmm…laager. time to call it a day.
26 Sep 2007, 11:45 am
Mako you have got it 100% spot on. Well said.
Win or lose the WC what you have said is correct.
26 Sep 2007, 11:49 am
Aus are gonna be in for a big surprise if they think England are going to turn out the same performance as they did against the Boks.
26 Sep 2007, 11:53 am
153 – True. England have a whole smorgasbord of kak performances to choose from.
26 Sep 2007, 11:57 am
154: Classic.
26 Sep 2007, 12:00 pm
My 5 cents. The balls could have a big influence in the final – since they are apparently so bad. The pressure will be immense on the kicker. Other 5 cents – NZ should go with Evans. If it’s a SA-NZ final, Carter will be too busy looking out for Butch!
26 Sep 2007, 12:00 pm
Vindicated…
You r just pissing everyone off!
Stop making excuses now for not making the Final! You know it’s gonna be SA vs NZ.
NZ 32 Convicts 12 in semis!
26 Sep 2007, 12:01 pm
154.
Just as long as they dont pull out the 53-3 classic we will be ok
26 Sep 2007, 12:02 pm
Tinus
Did you commit a score prediction for SA v Tonga before the game ?
26 Sep 2007, 12:04 pm
NZ wont make the semi’s. unfortunate. frogs will kick the asses. a pity, would have loved to see MR Mortlock killing them off again.
26 Sep 2007, 12:12 pm
#160
Hey long drop that’s a long shot. I reckon that if there is any game that NZ will be watching out for it will be that one. I reckon no way – not with the current french team – they are just not good enough. Just my 5 cents again – no dig.
26 Sep 2007, 12:12 pm
Reckon Deans has it spot on…except the pecking Aussies….that’s where a decent bench comes in,,, whatever happened to Piss…Pretyy…Prettytorius??? Bet it was the cool hair-gel that knocked out the Chiropractor. Ran into a hedgehog, n’stead of a flyhalf.
Damn, he’s been average so far. Depth of squad is gonna be the winner.
Oz lose two stars they’re done. AB’s lose two and it’s nothing.
Boks?
Prettytorius?
26 Sep 2007, 12:17 pm
Vindicated…
I predicted 5 points for the BOKS!
Did u predict 36/0 against England?
Face it bro, Ausies going nowhere slowly!
26 Sep 2007, 12:18 pm
this reminds me so much of what people said in 1999 about the frogs. they not good enough to win the holy grail but in 1 game against the AB’s anything can happen.
26 Sep 2007, 12:19 pm
vindicated
The fact that you don’t seem to believe that Australia will get the chance to beat SA in the final and prove your point, shows that you’re only interested in competing for 2nd place. The Boks, on the other hand, believe that they can beat the ABs.
26 Sep 2007, 12:21 pm
Anyone can win one game. The team to beat is the AB’s. England can’t. Aussies? SA? Mars XV?
26 Sep 2007, 12:26 pm
# 135 – What a stupid comment about a country with imports in their national rugby squad!
26 Sep 2007, 12:29 pm
By the way, why didn’t Jake use Zuma as a prop?
Bet he weighs more than Os, he can steamroller entire departments, he can delay the game for months…and I reckon even Carl Heyman backs off when the opposing prop tunes: bring me my machine gun…
26 Sep 2007, 12:47 pm
Gosh…so much for intellectual rugby stimulation…off to the local for a few…gonna wear my Bok jersey and my attitude and see if I get smacked. Boks for 2007. AB’s 2011……..
26 Sep 2007, 12:52 pm
165.
Thats why I say the semi-final is Aussies final
get past NZ (best team in the world) and the final will a bit of an after-event – still be good to compete though
26 Sep 2007, 13:05 pm
haha, it must hurt to know your soon-to-be coach thinks we’re better than they are.
personally i hope the all-blacks and aussies smash the daylights out each other and are both soft come final time. as vindicated says, if he’s happy with semi-final victory over nz then i think we can all say we’ll be happy to win the whole dam thing
26 Sep 2007, 13:11 pm
CAN YOU inagine aus losing to eng and ab losing to france, …..
26 Sep 2007, 13:13 pm
especially against a soft aussie side that always loses pressure games to us.
26 Sep 2007, 13:23 pm
Badeesh
When you can finish higher than the Aussies on the Tri-Nations log
When you are ranked higher than us on the IRB rankings
When you can raise the standard of your own coaches to the level required for this level of rugby
When you have won as many World Cups as the Aussies
And when you are able to beat the All Blacks at home in a World Cup year
then you can have a pop at the Aussies
Until then dont be so disrespectful – you’re giving the other 5% of the SA population a bad name
26 Sep 2007, 13:25 pm
Oh, my sack:
Clint Eastwood is looking to direct “The Human Factor,†a quickly brewing drama about how the 1995 Rugby World Cup helped heal post-apartheid race relations in South Africa reports Variety.
Morgan Freeman had already signed on to play Nelson Mandela in “The Human Factor,†Matt Damon is in preliminary talks to play the captain of the Springboks, and Warner Bros. Pictures is in talks to finance and distribute.
Anthony Peckham (â€Don’t Say A Wordâ€) adapted John Carlin’s book set right after the fall of apartheid, and after Mandela was released from a long imprisonment and became South African president.
Mandela recognized the significance when South Africa was selected host of the 1995 Rugby World Cup after the team had been barred from even competing since the 1980s because of apartheid. Freeman, Mace Neufeld nad Lori McCreary are producing.
MATT DAMON PLAYING FRANCOIS PIENAAR?!?!?!?!
26 Sep 2007, 13:25 pm
Oh yeah
and when you think you have a side ready to reverse 49 – 0 then can and chat
you are a small person with a big mouth
26 Sep 2007, 13:27 pm
With a clever coach like Robbie Australia will be a force to be reconed with in 2011!
26 Sep 2007, 13:27 pm
172: Its a tough call, but I’m not sure I’d prefer boks meeting a revived and fired up French team in a final in Paris (specially if they just took AB’s out!), rather than facing the AB’s.
26 Sep 2007, 13:47 pm
Geezlike,
Vindicated is turning into another Walla and Tackler wannabe.
WPtilIdie, I saw that to….. bit of a shocker really. I can picture that guy from the Green Mile as Chessie and Bruce Willis as Os. Whose gonna play Kobus Wiese? No one will be willing to pull their shorts up that high!
26 Sep 2007, 13:47 pm
Vindicated…
Move on in life you little irritating convicted pesant with your 49 IQ!!!!
26 Sep 2007, 13:54 pm
Tinus, Just ignore these feeble attempts at gaining our attention.
You get these kind of guys sometimes….Wallabie, Tackler, I remember a guy name Funaki, just stirring up trouble trying to get a rise out of anyone. Thankfully the guy was banned later on.
26 Sep 2007, 13:57 pm
Hellooooooo Skimmie,
Praat die diere alweer ‘n hoop bollie hier?
26 Sep 2007, 13:58 pm
haha, that’s so incredibly rich vindicated. why don’t you show us a little respect?
our coaches win record vs australia is in the black, you haven’t beaten us at home this century, whereas we have beaten you in your own backyard. we have beaten the all blacks far more than you have in recent history. our most recent tri-nations victory is at least still in memory, when did aus last win that?
respect is mutual punk. i have a healthy respect for your rugby team. they are the shiz. the springboks are the shiz too. it’s you i have no respect for.
26 Sep 2007, 13:59 pm
Vini, come back and chat when the Aussies stop losing to club sides and manage to win one test in SA.
26 Sep 2007, 14:00 pm
Vini believes he knows more about rugby than Robbie. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
26 Sep 2007, 14:00 pm
GBS
Welcome back – hows life on the fringes of society
26 Sep 2007, 14:01 pm
Jy is reg Skim, these ignorant Ausies are just looking for attention, no one at the WC rate them.
26 Sep 2007, 14:05 pm
Vin is pretending to be an Aussie!
26 Sep 2007, 14:05 pm
that’s not true, i rate the aussies. jc has done wonders for them and in berrick barnes they have a ridiculous talent in the making …
i’ll stand here n say that the aussies are a serious outfit full of class and cunning.
but the boks are seriously dam good too. we have a great draw, fantastic momentum and really top notch mix of experience and youth. combined with a hunger and belief that we witness when they take the field and you have world-beaters in the making.
26 Sep 2007, 14:06 pm
GBS middag boet.
Wat skinder jy, Kwagga & Cuzzie van my?
Julle was seker lekker de moer in met die kalwers se game ?
26 Sep 2007, 14:08 pm
Vindicated, sweep your own door before you address others. You seem good at making lists. Why don’t you go shopping rather and let the men talk about the rugby
26 Sep 2007, 14:08 pm
if you honestly believe that in a world cup game where australia, new zealand and south africa are playing each other, and the result is cut and dried in anyones favour, i immediately dismiss your opinion as ridiculous.
26 Sep 2007, 14:09 pm
Vins boyfriend would not allow him to do the shopping list!
26 Sep 2007, 14:11 pm
is “vein addicted” on a trip again?
26 Sep 2007, 14:12 pm
if anything the only thing lists of stats prove is that on your day you win … period.
26 Sep 2007, 14:18 pm
AB…
Vin must be an Ausie! No normal human can think of so much ****!
26 Sep 2007, 14:24 pm
Vindicated,
Never address a post at me again…….. I choose who I associate with and you don’t nearly make the grade.
I’m not interested to converse with you, now or ever………. get it?
26 Sep 2007, 14:25 pm
trupi, my geleerde vrind en kollega !
Neewat ons het maar net geskinder en gesê jy is ook een van ons kerk se mense……..
26 Sep 2007, 14:26 pm
Quick point – does anybody think that Skinstad is not as good as he’s alleged to be? Aside from his try he is an exceptionally lazy runner, doesn’t take workload in the rucks and mauls unless forced too and his missed tackles could have cost us badly!
Having seen it at the ground and recorded, my opionion is re-enforced!
26 Sep 2007, 14:27 pm
Hello Abel Kraamsaal…… ek het vergeet om jou te vra, wanneer vlieg jy weer terug van Slaapstad af beskawing toe?
26 Sep 2007, 14:28 pm
sorry guys, Your team has made enormous progress this year but I’ve got doubts about whether your team are good enough to tackle the AB’s. You won’t win it in the set pieces and I feel the AB’s have too much fire power around the park. I think that we won’t make it either for that matter. Give it a bloody good go but I feel this is their year.
26 Sep 2007, 14:29 pm
yeah weepee he’s not at all at his best… i rate bob though cos he is constantly improving. compare him to the guy coming off the bench for the sharks earlier in the year to the guy who led us against the tongans on the weekend…
if he keeps up this rate of improvement i wouldn’t mind picking him as captain next year if john smit isn’t available.
26 Sep 2007, 14:31 pm
GBS
Ses uur vanaand! Ek sit hier in die Dros by Canal Walk en speel op die laptop!
26 Sep 2007, 14:34 pm
Abel, nee maar dis reg so……. sit jy en vang ‘n sopie terwyl jy speel?
26 Sep 2007, 14:35 pm
SAussie
Dont fool yourself. Aus shld be confident that they can beat the AB’s after the last win. We know that have beaten them once at least for the last couple of years. Be nice to get this year’s in the final.
We also know that we can beat Aus on any given day.
The AB’s are confident of becoming champs, and rightly so, but any of Aus, SA or the frogs can give them a klap in a match.
26 Sep 2007, 14:37 pm
we nearly beat you with your strongest team at home trupisero. You guys give credit where credit is due, Steyn saved you that day, remember
26 Sep 2007, 14:40 pm
all i hear now is aussies bitching about us not giving them any credit and, apart from one rad comment about our improvement this year from SAussie, the refuse to show us any respect yet expect ours for them…
it’s hypocritical and insane.
26 Sep 2007, 14:42 pm
SAussie.
That’s true. The point is that there are 4 potential champs. I dont think the frogs will be able to play 3 BIG games in succession though.
I think its any of the Sanzar teams and your comment reflects that of the 3 teams, each are quietly (and otherwise) confident of their chances against each other.
26 Sep 2007, 14:45 pm
Interesting post in news24.com by a user. I am not saying the contents are accurate and verified but one wonders if there is any truth in this.
A well known rugby journalist reports that a midnight phone call to a member of the Springbok management team may indicate that there is something a little more sinister behind the citing.
He writes that there are some who are beginning to believe that there is a concerted effort to unsettle the Boks in their attempt to win the Rugby World Cup in France. He points out that in essence, the hearing was conducted with no evidence, and a witness who contradicted himself.
A ‘stitch-up’
As one observer noted: “Looks like a stitch-up job if I’ve ever seen one.”
He also states in his article that “late on Monday night, a member of the Springbok management received a phone call from a Tongan team official to “apologise” for the citing of Steyn. The official implied that they had not wanted to cite Steyn, but that they had had their hand forced.
He did not elaborate as to who had applied the pressure, but the manner in which the judicial hearings have been conducted at the tournament thus far suggests that some of the teams are more equal than others here. ”
The journalist further noted that “All Black prop Carl Hayman has escaped being cited for punching, and Wallaby Drew Mitchell never heard another word after his spear tackle against Wales – despite a player from the US receiving a five-match ban for the same thing.”
There are those who feel that New Zealand and Australian officials have made a mockery of international rugby over the last number of years. Some see them as a brotherhood of bandits who have conspired together for years now, particularly against South Africa.
Will it be Victor Matfield, Brian Habana, John Smit or Percy who will be targeted next?
Could it be that the Aussies and Kiwis are livid about the stitch up in the Tri-Nations i.e. SA sabotaging 3N to have a better look-in at the World Cup.
26 Sep 2007, 14:45 pm
good luck guys, I bet there are a lot more twists in this WC to come yet.
26 Sep 2007, 14:46 pm
yeah you too bro, i have a feeling you gonna catch nz napping and take them in the semi by at least 10 …
peeps may call me insane but that will be one hell of a twist.
26 Sep 2007, 14:48 pm
I reckon Ireland are too clasy and could come good at the right time
26 Sep 2007, 14:50 pm
badeesh.
Dont care whether its the frogs, the convicts or us, as long as they learn to pronounce choke in chinese – fo-mo-ye-ahs
26 Sep 2007, 14:52 pm
Saussie.
The ginger boys are gone after this weekend. the way they have played doen’t deserve a spot in the 1/4s
26 Sep 2007, 14:52 pm
lol, banana boy, we all know this is true we’ve felt it for years …
proving it is impossible unless people like the tongans and samoans play ball and talk openly about who ‘forced’ their hand.
their ties with the other two sanzar countries mean this will never ever happen.
26 Sep 2007, 14:55 pm
No smoke without fire, 209.
26 Sep 2007, 15:06 pm
bananaboy,
Opinions like that of the reader you posted are pathetic. There are inconsistencies, but there is no conspiracy.
Here’s a conspiracy theory for you from another angle – Maybe the Boks are fuelling this themselves to create a siege mentality within the camp. It helps to bring the team closer, an us against the world mentality.
I really can’t get over how many of you believe there to be something sinister going on.
26 Sep 2007, 15:09 pm
katman,
I hope you get this post later.
I just wanted to write something about the Lima tackle and consistency thing we talked about yesterday.
Lima will be remembered as a legend for playing 5 world cups, yet for me he has always played the game to destroy. Occassionally he gets a king hit in on a player and is remembered for it. Other than for these “hits” what else is he remembered for?
In his last world cup, Lima has been trying to live up to his reputation forged in past world cups. What is that reputation? It is one where he puts the fear of god into opposition backs.
If Lima gets his tackling right, his style is such that he is unable to pull out of tackles if the player being tackled has the ball or not. Lima sets out to bury his shoulder or head in his targeted opponent.
In most cases it is a legal “hit”, and is within the rules of the game, but IMO, Lima sets out to intentionally injure his opponent, to hit them so hard that they cannot continue to play.
Having looked at different highlights of the SA game, I saw that he had decided to lay down a marker on the opposition, probably because his team were getting beaten badly.
I don’t agree with this at all, because i feel his focus is solely to hit high (upper body), hit hard and hit when the opposing player is focused on something else, ie passing the ball.
I don’t want the contact in the game to be taken away at all, but it needs to be controlled. It is a core part of rugby, a test of strength and bravery at times. But I do question the motive for playing of players like Lima.
I’m picking on Lima here and not Samoans as a whole, as most of the rest of them can manage to stay on the right side of law and play their physical game. They love the physical contest, yet they play the game of rugby to win, not maim.
Lima’s style has resulted in one badly executed tackle on Pretorius that left Lima unconscious and a dangerous, high hit on Wilkinson that got him cited and then banned.
I am sorry for Lima that his world cup has ended this way, and his legacy has now been tainted because of it IMO. I guess it is fitting that the JO gave him the world cup send off his play has deserved. The one he earned.
I do agree with you on consistency, or the lack of it. There are a couple of players who haven’t been cited and should have been.
Schalk Burger’s tackle in the air was high, dangerous and brainless. A 4 match ban was too harsh when compared with other offences commited by other players, some who got lenient punsishment, some who got nothing at all.
26 Sep 2007, 15:14 pm
Presonally I think Lima’s tackle on Pretorius was hard – but it was hardly illegal
Just a big strong bloke going in hard on a smaller guy – thats the game isnt it ??
26 Sep 2007, 15:14 pm
stodders 218
you are talking sense for a change!
26 Sep 2007, 15:16 pm
Stodders re 217 , you’ve gone and presumed that i agree with the story which is a little shortsighted of you. I posted it merely because there are some truths in it that need to be adressed i.e the inconsistencies with citings. Surely you have to agree that bashing someones head in deserves a citing if you compare the offence with what Burger did, which I also agree was reckless.
26 Sep 2007, 15:17 pm
218,
agree fully stodders.
26 Sep 2007, 15:20 pm
trupisero,
Don’t go thinking that i’m going all soft now you hear
26 Sep 2007, 15:21 pm
bananaboy,
I wrote “opinions like those of the reader you posted”. I was referring to the person who wrote what you posted, not you personally. Sorry for the confusion.
26 Sep 2007, 15:24 pm
For once i dont agree with Stodders. There is definately bias towards some teams at this world cup, SA in particular. The Yellow cards on Steyn and Habana and the citings of Schalk and Steyn just add fuel to this argument. After watching some of the offences committed by other teams in this world cup that have gone unpunished and uncited, i feel betrayed.
26 Sep 2007, 15:25 pm
what do you make of drew mitchells tackle vindicated?
26 Sep 2007, 15:28 pm
Durban,
Do you believe there is a bigger conspiracy against the Boks or do you believe the Boks have just been the victims of over zealous officiating?
26 Sep 2007, 15:29 pm
badeesh,
Personally, i didn’t think Mitchell’s tackle was that bad when taken in context.
Moore’s knee and Thomas’s body check were the two incidents from that game that i felt should have been cited, and weren’t.
26 Sep 2007, 15:33 pm
Howzit Stodders!
I’ve dismounted my horse today.
Yesterday was quite an emotional day for us all – thank you for your apologies and your fair judgment in 218.
I also do not think that there is some “conspiracy”, but I do think that there are irregularities that need to be investigated.
It is a bit bizarre that almost all of the citings have occurred in Group A?
26 Sep 2007, 15:35 pm
Stodders. I dont know what to think, But I am starting to believe that the rest of the world seems to have a preconceived notion that the boks are a bunch of savages.
26 Sep 2007, 15:36 pm
There are inconsistencies for other teams too.
I have seen a couple of games where punches have been thrown, and the perpetrators have not been carded or cited. Hayman got pinged and got a yellow card. Have the ABs now got grounds for inconsistent reffing?
Look, i don’t want the game to become sanitised. The blokes out there are big guys, filled with energy and the will to win. I don’t condone king hits or punches like what we used to see in the game, but i don’t mind a bit of biff.
If a SA player threw a punch and got carded, i would expect him not to get cited. I use the example of Skinstad in this years SA v AB game in Durban as the example against which consistency should be measured in this regard
26 Sep 2007, 15:37 pm
badeesh
I didnt see it – is in on the net ??
26 Sep 2007, 15:39 pm
not sure lemme see if i can find a highlight for you …
it was crazy bad, picked the guy up, dropped him on his head
i like drew mitchell too. imho it was the worst offence so far at the tournament.
26 Sep 2007, 15:41 pm
There is more than that, what about the proffesional fouls being commited by the Tongans when they continuously were pulling down our rolling mauls and the bam!! out of the blue Habana gets yellow carded for not rolling out of the tackle. Weird and smacks of bias. Stodders do you know that New Zealand have never got a yellow card playing against the boks in all the years of rugby. That stat alone is enough for me to know that there exists a bias towards us Saffas.
Woodcock throws a punch and gets away with it. Burger has a mid air colision with a scrum half and BAM cited. weird!!
26 Sep 2007, 15:41 pm
oops
26 Sep 2007, 15:43 pm
badeesh,
Erm, slightly over the top assessment don’t you think?
Mitchell’s tackle isn’t even in the same ball park as the one committed by the American centre when he drilled the English player in their game. If you want an example of the spear tackle in its full glory, check out that tackle on youtube.
26 Sep 2007, 15:44 pm
where is the beautiful one today ??
26 Sep 2007, 15:47 pm
Durban,
Burger – Mid air collision? As katman said to me yesterday, i guess you see what you want to see. Burger’s eyes never looked at the ball. If he had waited until the man came down, he would have been alright. Schalk had a brain ****. It was dangerous. He took his medicine.
I felt the Scots should have got at least one yellow when they played NZ on Sunday. They were spoiling at the rucks, dropping the scrum, standing offside, yet the ref didn’t hand out one yellow. Sometimes refs just punish the bigger teams more harshly.
26 Sep 2007, 15:47 pm
Vinnie,
Is that your version of an apology?
26 Sep 2007, 15:48 pm
it’s deleted on youtube tried to post here …
sorry ig won’t post links anymore …
26 Sep 2007, 15:49 pm
lol, but the american dude got what he deserved didn’t he?
26 Sep 2007, 15:52 pm
badeesh,
Mitchell got a yellow card. For whatever reason, the citing official deemed that to be an appropriate enough punishment for the offence, so he didn’t cite.
I guess the only way for the IRB to sort this mess out is for the citing official to take away the citing commissioner’s power to judge for himself the severity of the offence and to refer all offences to the citing committee.
26 Sep 2007, 15:53 pm
237 – I had a long meeting, but I’m back now.
26 Sep 2007, 15:56 pm
Ok. I take your point about Burger it was reckless. Thats why he got penalised. At the end of the day it was a forward v scrumhalf and if you Slow down anything to much and it sometimes looks alot more dubious than it is.
26 Sep 2007, 15:57 pm
stodders,
I hear you. And I agree. And while it might not be a deliberate, premeditated conspiracy, I honestly believe this inconsistency stems from a deep-seated bias (yes, not unlike racism or homophobia) against South African rugby players and against us as a nation. Because of our past we are easy and handy villians. And trying to change this view is like trying to get vindicated to like girls instead of boys overnight.
26 Sep 2007, 15:58 pm
beautifully stated katman.
26 Sep 2007, 15:58 pm
katman,
Glad we’re back on speaking terms.
26 Sep 2007, 16:00 pm
katman,
Maybe it will be a good thing when the Boks have more coloured representation in their ranks. No one will dare cite then for fear of being branded racist
26 Sep 2007, 16:01 pm
Still in the context of some of the instances that happened in the first round i felt that it was very harsh. Especially considering that Juan Smith was throwing punches and never got cited. All i can think of to substantiate that is the fact that the last time Burger was injured SA lost 5 games in a row. The English knowing this felt that the only way to win the game against us was to get rid of Burger and hence he got cited for his offence and Juan got away clean.
26 Sep 2007, 16:02 pm
Durban,
Juan Smith threw punches but didn’t get a card or cited? That’s preferential treatment if you ask me
26 Sep 2007, 16:03 pm
Durban,
Best you keep instances of the Boks getting a fair ride quiet. You’ll blow a hole in the “Boks are victims” argument
26 Sep 2007, 16:06 pm
He he.. Good point.. im not saying we are angels. All i ask for is consistancy.
26 Sep 2007, 16:06 pm
AFTER 5 MONTHS ! THE LEGEND THAT IS ME RETURNS ! I WENT DEEP INTO THE KALAHRI DESERT ON HOLIDAY FOR A PERIOD OF MEDITATION AND THOUGHT TO PREPARE MYSELF MENTALLY AND SPIRITUALLY FOR THE ALL BLACKS WINNING THE WORLD CUP !
26 Sep 2007, 16:07 pm
What am I supposedly apologising for Stodders?
26 Sep 2007, 16:08 pm
boks are victims, but thats fine and accepted, no ones asking for special treatment, just concistency.
26 Sep 2007, 16:08 pm
Actually all i want is those dam convicts to get cited… All of them!!!
26 Sep 2007, 16:09 pm
Yuo guys sound like you’re at a political rally. Victim this victiom that.
Let it go!
26 Sep 2007, 16:10 pm
cab,
Boks are victims…hehehe. It’s never their own fault for just being stupid then
Vinnie,
I saw your oops post. I thought you were saying sorry for something. I wasn’t asking you for an apology if that is how you took it.
26 Sep 2007, 16:11 pm
Was trying to post an image stodders and it didnt come out as intended.
26 Sep 2007, 16:15 pm
Durban,
Everyone wants consistency.
The Boks have been cited twice in this world cup.
Burger was dumb and got a ban. The initial one was harsh, and it was reduced on appeal. If there was a conspiracy, the appeal panel could have increased it!
The second incident was for a biting allegation. The IRB had to look into it. They had to cite Steyn to bring about the case. They found him not guilty on the charge and completely exonerated him.
One guilty, one innocent verdict. The wheels of justice keep a turning
26 Sep 2007, 16:18 pm
Everyone has made their camp now. Let’s just let it go and get on with looking ahead.
Burger is nicely refreshed and ready to play from QFs to Final, Steyn is clear to play too. All is rosey in Bok land.
26 Sep 2007, 16:21 pm
#249
Burger was cited in the Samoan game. How could the English cite him?
26 Sep 2007, 16:31 pm
256.
Now thats not nice, nor is it in the spirit of fostering a friendly realtionship between our two nations
26 Sep 2007, 16:43 pm
Conspirators etal… Load of BS guys
Burger was carded for dangerous play. Taking a player out in the air. Deserved his card.
Habana was carded for a professional foul. Not rolling away from tackled player ( he was within 10 metres of the tryline… therefore carded. Dont know what game you are watching but both got what was deserved.
26 Sep 2007, 16:52 pm
264 – Don’t pretend you don’t know what the real issue is here.
Which is, of course: Why weren’t players like Mitchel, Moore, Thomas & Hayman ALSO cited?
26 Sep 2007, 16:55 pm
Rugbyrulz. Thats fine if you look at it like that. The problem comes in when Tonga were also blatently commiting professional fouls by colapsing our rolling maul and nothing happened to them. Consistant???????
We dont ask for much.
26 Sep 2007, 16:57 pm
Durban docs,
I like your name it reminds of the Durban TN match.
The boks got klapped in that last ten minutes did they not?
At one stage i was asking “why are the boks standing still while the AB`s are running past them?”
Afterwards the boks told JW “we got tired”.
HiHiHiHi!!!
Bye for now.
26 Sep 2007, 17:00 pm
Ask yourselves this…. What if the Stellenboshe (excuse my spelling) rules come in post WCup.
Mauls will be a thing of the past!
26 Sep 2007, 17:01 pm
vindicated, read ur posts through out … hypocrite
26 Sep 2007, 17:07 pm
katman,
I mentioned above that Hayman’s non-citing was consistent with the punishment dished out to Skinstad for his punch on McCaw in the Durban test this year. If anything, the Boks got better treatment on that occasion as Skinstad didn’t get a card either.
Mitchell’s tackle wasn’t that bad IMO. I do agree with you though that Moore and Thomas should have been cited.
So out of the 4, you are right on 2 IMO.
26 Sep 2007, 17:08 pm
267 – Last time we played your lot we beat you 105-13. What makes you think you can afford to be smug here?
26 Sep 2007, 17:09 pm
katman,
Durban Docks also pointed out earlier that Juan Smith had thrown a couple of punches in the Samoa game. He wasn’t censured during or after the game. The citing commissioner was consistent again when it came to punching.
26 Sep 2007, 17:10 pm
Mitchells spear was almost a carbon copy of the tackle that got the yank centre 5 games.
And we’re talking World Cup citings, because this is where all this **** started. If Burger got cited, so should Hayman.
I count 4 from 4
IMHO
26 Sep 2007, 17:13 pm
Katman
If you were a citing official there would be a 13 man game. Oh yeah thats called Rugby League.
Mitchells tackle involved no driving… the americans did. Here endeth the lesson.
26 Sep 2007, 17:31 pm
katman,
we’ll agree to disagree. Again.
26 Sep 2007, 19:33 pm
Famous Saffa tennis coach Gerrie Berner told us 12 year old Borg wannabees:
If you face a guy with a massive serve, TELL him how huge his serve is, tried it many a time, in most cases….. problem solved…
27 Sep 2007, 00:13 am
Stodders: Lima has played like this ever since I played against him as a 17 yr old playing for St Pats in Wellington, I was at Wellington College.
Ball in hand, fast and a great swerve
In the tackle, a bit of a thug – unfortunately like many polynesian players – and I should know, I would have played rugby with or against over 2000 of them.
27 Sep 2007, 05:40 am
28. Yeah the Criminals second fifteen only lost by 40 odd to NZ’s third team. Great depth for a diving team.
32. The referees are beginning to favour dominant scrums and I expect the Criminals to do as well as their second team. The TN win was a blimp after the AB’s were forced to play so soon after a very tough match against the RSA.
157 Is that a typo? 52 – 12 you meant?
218 Perhaps that Lima is near the top of the RWC try scoring list. Probably scored more than England. Check it out at the IRB site.
234. The Boks game winning try came from a ruck where a Tongan was spear tackled. Was that a travesty?
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