In Black and White
11 Nov 2007
Jake White, in his autobiography ‘In Black and White’ confirms that Luke Watson was never wanted by the Bok players.
Watson has never been initiated as a Bok player and White holds back nothing in detailing the circumstances that forced him to select Watson for one test against Samoa.
The Rapport Newspaper and Sunday Times newspaper brought exclusivity to the extracts of the book, due for release next week, and Rapport focused mostly on the Watson affair.
Both newspapers also detailed the prominent chapters in the book with White discussing political interference, transformation, player selection, the hell of 2006, the media’s role in South African rugby, the dislike for playing at Loftus among players outside of the Bulls, his relationship with John Smit and Victor Matfield, among others, and the political minefield that dogged his four year tenure.
He insists that Watson simply was never good enough and that the Watson family tried to broker a deal with him to include Luke as a Bok and be secured a future in South African rugby.
White writes his biggest regret is not beating the All Blacks in New Zealand and that would have been his greatest motivation to continue as Bok coach.
607 Comments
11 Nov 2007, 09:26 am
White should be ashamed of himself, downright underhanded instigating manipulator.
11 Nov 2007, 09:27 am
THe dislike for playing at Loftus – apart from the Bulls players??? This shocks me, truly – LOL.
Now friggin hell, thats not news – its general farrkkiinnn knowledge…..
Blue bearded dragons…..(Dragon flies that is)
11 Nov 2007, 09:27 am
Poor excuse for a national coach and he’s still bleating from the sidelines.
11 Nov 2007, 09:29 am
Good riddance JAkey boy go cry on some lily white shoulders over yonder.
11 Nov 2007, 09:33 am
More Ruck & Skoppie
Skop – still feeling mean I see …
11 Nov 2007, 09:35 am
Can’t wait to read this biography. Have placed a pre-order through kalahari.net.
11 Nov 2007, 09:36 am
Good morning skop and the girls
11 Nov 2007, 09:37 am
Was wondering how long it would take people to turn against Jake. Shame on you!
11 Nov 2007, 09:40 am
Dislike for playing at Loftus by the non-Bulls PLAYERS???
I can understand why White may not appreciate Loftus, but why the players? If so, then stuff them. Probably bad memories from all the thrashings they got there at the hands of the Bulls.
Pretty sure that the majority of the NEW team will absolutely LOVE Loftus.
11 Nov 2007, 09:40 am
Too many revelations might cost Jake the England job.
The RFU have had their fill of book revelations after the Dallaglio and Catt debacle.
11 Nov 2007, 10:00 am
Just read the exctracts on the Sunday Times website.
That Stofile is a real arsehole, no doubt about it.
Here’s the thing. White had to endure a huge amount of ****. I sympathise with him regarding 70% of the stuff he’s talking about.
I remember I was his fiercest critic when week after week he kept insisting that Eddie Andrews, Solly T, Q Davids and Bolla were in the team on merit. It felt like he was lying to the fans who knew better. Now it turns out he didn’t have much choice.
I said I sympathised with 70% of his troubles. But there remains the other 30%, which was of his own making. His feud with the Bulls for example. Why alienate the guys who could have been powerful allies against the transformation clique driven by Stofile?
The enemies on the left were pretty much always going to be there, but the enemies on the right were of White’s own making.
Heyneke for example, will go into the coaching job with a powerful core support base and will have a much stronger position because of it.
Jake should have cultivated such support as well. But he chose not to.
11 Nov 2007, 10:08 am
NO TACITUS – The Bulls put forward HOW MANY votes of no confidence in Jake???
Sheez man, Jake had to take helluva lot of flack from the elements up north – end of.
However, Jake White was not always as innocent as some people seem to presume. That said, Jake was and is a FINE coach – end of.
11 Nov 2007, 10:18 am
The Bulls issues, if I recall correctly, were the result of their intolerance of Jake’s atrocious results in 2006. Those were justifiable reasons for no confidence votes.
The Stofile driven ****, however, was all about selecting quotas that didnt’ deserve to be there.
Remember when White was trying to convince all of us that Solly T was the quickest/most talented loose forward in SA when he chose him for the team?
I ask you this. If White was willing to oppose the Stofile clique on so many other things, why didn’t he take their quota requirements to the media as well, and simply state outright that Solly T was forced upon him, along with Eddie, Quinton etc?
He would have found a VERY sympathetic ear in the Rapport newspaper if he followed this strategy, and would no doubt have gotten the millions of Bulls fans on his side as well.
He could have played this better, but instead he came up with stories like: “Solly T is the next Schalk Burger.”
Come on. No wonder we felt he treated us with contempt.
11 Nov 2007, 10:18 am
#3 and 4
Skoppies, what are you saying dude? Why the hatred?
11 Nov 2007, 10:19 am
I’m also distressed that a young player with talent and potential – Luke Watson, has been offered up as the sacrificial lamb by ALL roleplayers in SA Rugby. The politicians, the administrators, the national coach and others. They ALL used him to score points (or for financial gain…) and this is what upsets me, as a rugby lover.
Why ruin the future of a PLAYER to further your own cause…(whether you like the player or not should not be relevant here fellow bloggers)
This could, and probably will happen again…This, I find sad…
11 Nov 2007, 10:22 am
#13
Actually Tac I think you’ve forgotten the true detail of the Solly afair?
If I remember correctly Jake got in trouble for saying in the press when questioned about Solly something along the lines of:
“Well, you have to look at the political makeup of the team…..”
I remember clearly Jake getting in trouble for insinuating that Solly was their in part because of his colour.
11 Nov 2007, 10:29 am
#13 – OK – justifiable reasons… So why didn;t Heyneke get the boot after losing 11 Super 12 games on the trot??? Did the Bulls union chuck him – fire him – summon him back from Australasia???
Its called “being fair”.
11 Nov 2007, 10:32 am
13
‘why didn’t he take their quota requirements to the media as well, and simply state outright that Solly T was forced upon him, along with Eddie, Quinton etc?’
because that shows a lack of unity between coach and squad and risks alienating other black players. Plus, it leaves him open to accusations of racism.
11 Nov 2007, 10:32 am
#17
Its true Tac does seem to have a tendency to lean towards the Bulls in these instances…
11 Nov 2007, 10:34 am
#18
Big Hit, what is happening with the English coach situation? Is Ashton staying or going?
11 Nov 2007, 10:35 am
#19 – Tacitus is so far up the Bull’s backside – the next piece of prime steak you eat could be Tact’s *** cheek…..
11 Nov 2007, 10:36 am
Well, well surprise surprise Tacticus won’t find anything wrong with the Bulls oh no! The reason the other players didn’t like it there is because that crowd, even if you lose to the best in the World(AB’s) they will BOO you off the field. They Boo Percy and they Boo the English John Smit. Yep that sums it up for me…
11 Nov 2007, 10:38 am
Guys re-post #16
I’d just like to remind you all that Jake DID try and insinuate that Solly was their for political reasons and the press mauled him!
11 Nov 2007, 10:39 am
20
Still not decided.
Someone is going to come in however, whether it be a new team manager to assist Ashton or a new head coach to replace Ashton.
Jake may get the call but if he takes it too far with his book, then it could cost him the job as few were very impressed with Dallaglio’s revelations.
11 Nov 2007, 10:40 am
Ruck,
Was HM already in charge or an assistant in 2002 when the Bulls didn’t win a super match all year ?
11 Nov 2007, 10:41 am
Yetirat
Possible. But there were also statements along the lines of how excellent Solly was and Eddie benchpressing more than Os etc.etc. Bullsh*t arguments to try and justify the selection of under-par players.
With all said and done I feel for White. He was in a very difficult position. But when caught between a rock and a hard place, he chose to antagonize both sides, rather than ally with one of them.
The quota brigade was never a viable ally.
But the simple act of selecting Ettiene Botha instead of Wayne Julies for example, would have gone a long way in shoring up relations with the Bulls. Even if it was just for the weekday team.
Instead of identifying a potential ally, Jake saw the strength of the Bulls union as a threat, and did everything he could to try and get at them for some reason over the next few years.
From criticising them for supposedly playing injured Boks in the Super 14, to ridiculous statements that Heyneke was playing players out of position. This when Jake played Steyn in every backline position other than 9, played Habana at centre, De Villiers at wing etc.
Bottomline: Stofile is the prime evil here and was always going to be a problem. Bearing this in mind, Jake should not have looked for a war on two fronts.
11 Nov 2007, 10:42 am
Re: Non Bulls players not enjoying Loftus.
So its not only Katman and The Media that has something to say about Loftus ….
11 Nov 2007, 10:43 am
In fact the Bulls only won 4 super games in 4 years between 1999 and 2002 inclusive.
Never realised that !!
11 Nov 2007, 10:43 am
#24
Yes, well Dallaglio is just one giant ego!
I still think Jakie is irresistible with his World Cup winning record regardless of anything else. Also, the press here have certainly emphasized to people the political nonsense in SA rugby so I don’t think they’ll worry too much about the book.
Interestingly enough I watched Duncan Fletcher get practically attacked on Sky sports yesterday about his book and the whole Freddie thing.
11 Nov 2007, 10:45 am
Ruck
The Bulls DID fire Heyneke after his initial poor results, if I recall correctly. Isn’t that when they brought Rudy Joubert in? Heyneke obviously developed a lot as coach after that, and they brought him back after his great Currie Cup successes that followed.
11 Nov 2007, 10:45 am
Tacitus, why the hell should a national coach lick the Bulls union ***?? Because they’re the 3rd Force that governs SA Rugby??
The simple act of selecting Ettiene Botha to appease the Bulls union, is the same thing as selecting Luke Watson/whoever else to appease the politicians….
Please just read what you’re typing…..you can’t have it both ways – (whilst that might be distressing, its the way of the world…)
11 Nov 2007, 10:49 am
28
I know. The Northern Bulls were a known to be weak even in the NH.
It became the ‘in’ fashion in rugby circles for everyone to wear SH Super 12 shirts, the Bulls shirt was the only one no one would be seen in because they were synonymous with being a weak team even to people who didn’t know that much about Super 12 rugby.
You see tend to see people wearing them now, however, given their resurgence. The only Super 12 shirt I ever purchased was a Sharks shirt.
11 Nov 2007, 10:50 am
Bagel
The booing came from all the WP fans living in Pretoria.
Get your facts straight.
Newlands is not Boolands for no reason.
11 Nov 2007, 10:50 am
Ruck
White didn’t HAVE to “lick the Bulls arse” as you put it. But it sure would have made his life a whole lot easier if he had a less antagonistic relationship with them. Instead, it all ended in tears and a book in which he laments his terrible time as Bok coach. His choice.
Remember the Bok team that had virtually a WP line up?
Paulse
Joubert
Barry
Bolla
Big Joe
Schalk
Quinton Davidz
Eddie Andrews
I probably missed a few. Rather interesting that of all those players, only Schalk and De Villiers were left in the team that achieved success at the world cup. So Jake DID have a change at heart at some point. Thankfully.
11 Nov 2007, 10:51 am
Good choice BH !!
11 Nov 2007, 10:52 am
BIGGLES you brigand…..I am going to post you a Stormers strip…(Sharks at least a good few steps above a Bulls jesrsey though…)
11 Nov 2007, 10:53 am
Why would a Capetonian choose to live in Tshwane ??
11 Nov 2007, 10:54 am
OutWide
Money?
11 Nov 2007, 10:55 am
#34 – Yip, that team with all those Province boys WON THE TRI-NATIONS…….
11 Nov 2007, 10:55 am
Don’t worry. As a Bull I confess that I prefer the so called Laager mentality. Heyneke always stressed to the Bulls that it was them against the rest of the country. And that kid of mindset brought them their 5 Currie Cup finals, 2 S14 semi finals and the only South African S14 title in the history of the competition.
In fact, I believe all he had to do in some games was stick up a Mark Keohane article on the dressing room wall, and the Bulls had all the motivation they needed to run out and wipe the floor with their southern opposition.
That’s just the way we like it. Keep it coming please.
11 Nov 2007, 10:56 am
Possibly, but it would need to be extremely well paid to compensate.
11 Nov 2007, 10:56 am
Marius Joubert: HAT TRICK HAT TRICK HAT TRICK….
11 Nov 2007, 10:56 am
“BIGGLES you brigand…..I am going to post you a Stormers strip”
More like a flap with that ladyboy team.
11 Nov 2007, 10:58 am
OutWide
Man must eat do your evironment pretty much becomes redundant.
11 Nov 2007, 10:58 am
29
To be honest, I don’t mind book revelations as it lets people see the reality from different perspectives.
Dallaglio’s effort however, was particularly stinging and the timing was all wrong, i.e. just after the World Cup when there was a feelgood factor. This from an aging, underperforming, peripheral squad figure who was pinpointed before the tournament (by Will Carling) as a potentially divisive influence was particularly hard to stomach for many. He also revealed details about secret meetings and ‘outed’ other players.
On the Jake issue, I think there is a distinct possibility that he may end up without an international job and could wait for a high-paying a club job.
11 Nov 2007, 10:58 am
Springbok players had no right to dislike Luke. He is a very unique individual who stands for what is right and is no “gat kruiper”. He is a good player.
11 Nov 2007, 10:58 am
#43 – Home erotic Jondood? I have not read a single post of yours in which you don’t mention, “WP Lady boys……”
Why the fixation/obsession with our players?? Is it physical, mental or both??
11 Nov 2007, 11:01 am
SHEEZ, I’ve often wondered how a gynae must feel sorrounded by ……. all day. With Tact and Jondood doing their Laurel and Hardy act, I now KNOW what a gynae must feel sorrounded by ……..
11 Nov 2007, 11:04 am
#46
He is pretty good at the breakdown and no smaller than George Smith or Phil Waugh. I think the new rules with hands in the ruck will suit him as he has a low centre of gravity and is strong on his feet. Maybe it will be better for his game if he is released from the captaincy.
11 Nov 2007, 11:06 am
Jake, Jake, Jake…..
Are not some things better left unsaid.
And who are the players that didn’t want Luke. I’m sure for example his WP Team-mates were happy to have him in the Squad.
Oh well, it will sell books I suppose.
11 Nov 2007, 11:07 am
42
Joubert was a great centre, he was really beginning to break the line regularly for SA before he was injured.
11 Nov 2007, 11:09 am
The Luke Watson sagger is very disappointing! I wish he had let that one lie. But I guess the ball is now in Luke’s court. He just has to do his talking on the field.
It never ceases to amaze me how in SA sportsmen who actually have an opinion and don’t mutter things about positives are always taken to the cleaners.
11 Nov 2007, 11:10 am
#49 – It will benefit his game. He is still extremely talented, and being so young ALL this hoohah over him, must have affected him in ways none of us could ever comprehend…I like him, always have, and I am certain he is going to play a huge role in SA rugby…
I also recall WITH SHAME the tri-nations test against NZ in 2000/2001 not sure which – where Robbie Fleck, Breyton Paulse, Pieter Rossouw and Percy Montgomery were booed up north….as Springboks. This booing before the game even started. They had things thrown at them and the sort – The Boks won the test that day……..
11 Nov 2007, 11:13 am
Yep ruck that is what I was saying earlier, if your not Blou they will Boo you, Oh, and don’t you dare be English speaking that is just not on up there!
11 Nov 2007, 11:14 am
AND for those who never saw my post yesterday:
Cheeky Watson has been co-opted onto the Presidents Council of SA Rugby….until Feb. Yeah yeah, its cos Stofile wants him as an ally when he attempts to oust Hoskins (that can’t be allowed to happen – Hoskins has integrity)
11 Nov 2007, 11:16 am
#55 – Follow on: But it might be pretty entertaining seeing Cheeky and the Bulls union having a laugh together…
11 Nov 2007, 11:17 am
Jig Ruck #22, I’m not going to eat steak for a month! Tac is such a drol.
11 Nov 2007, 11:18 am
Where did LW matriculate ? Anyone know ?
11 Nov 2007, 11:19 am
About a year ago Ma Nonu (Former AB and Hurricanes Back) visited a local Primary School in my Locale.
At morning assembly he fielded questions from the adorning youngsters.
One young lad asked Ma his favourite ground in the “Whole World”.
Newlands in CapeTown it was.
And the same Boy asked “and the worst Ground Mr Nonu”.
“Pretoria”, the reply.
I remember this because I thought how strange that one Country could have the best and the worst.
11 Nov 2007, 11:22 am
I am REALLY looking forward to 2008.
Boks World Champions
Bulls Super 14 Champions
Heyneke Meyer Bok Coach
Victor Matfield Bok captain?
What a year we have ahead of us.
11 Nov 2007, 11:22 am
59
Serious question, does Nonu still wear make-up?
11 Nov 2007, 11:23 am
#59 – LOL. Cane brother, many internationals rate the TWO Newlands’s (rugby and cricket) as fave grounds, something my brethren up north will never be able to swallow. (Well, thats cos they’re too busy swallowing up all sorts of other s**t)
Now you see it, even Bok players (those not aligned to the dark side) dislike Loftus. Its mighty sad when some Bok players would rather play at the cake tin, than a ground in SA.
11 Nov 2007, 11:23 am
#58
Grey High PE
11 Nov 2007, 11:24 am
Ruck
You eventually planning to get rid of that chip on your shoulder?
11 Nov 2007, 11:27 am
Thanks Sdwesh.
11 Nov 2007, 11:27 am
Hi Ruck, do you live in Newlands?
11 Nov 2007, 11:29 am
#64 – How about we get rid of both OUR chips on the same day??? We could ask someone to officiate (a neutral such as Biggles….)
That said, I quite enjoy my “chip”, its the seasons MUST HAVE fashion accessory….
11 Nov 2007, 11:30 am
Tacticus
You eventually planning on having the Boer-Change operation?
11 Nov 2007, 11:31 am
#66 – Stellenbosch…
11 Nov 2007, 11:31 am
This book is going to shake south african rugby and society to the foundation. The world is going to know the truth. This will make Pienaar’s autobiography look like a kids book!
Jeez I need to get my hands on it at all cost!!
11 Nov 2007, 11:32 am
62 Cane and Ruck
Wellington and the Cake tin is a little like
Cape Town. Same sort of bay with a mountain or in Wellington’s case a big hill at it’s backdrop.
Same sort of laid back atmosphere.
11 Nov 2007, 11:32 am
Being dedicated in SUPPORT of someting is very different to being fanatically against something else.
I love the Bulls. But I am not obsessively against either the Sharks, WP, Freestate or Lions. Whoever stands in the way of my team happens to be the adversary of choice on that particular matchday.
You on the other hand have some serious issues relating to your anti-Bulls fanaticism.
Not healthy, girl.
11 Nov 2007, 11:32 am
Ruck, then I invite you for coffee if it would suit you.
11 Nov 2007, 11:34 am
The main reason that internationals are so partial to Newlands is the fact that it is simply far too cushy for its own good.
The weather is usually great, the ground is soft, the air is full of oxygen, and there’s the ubiquitous element of wankers shouting for the opposition.
Not that I condone the bullsh*t antics at Loftus, but when are we ever shown such hospitality when we play away games? I say we should endeavour to play 80% of our home games in really kak venues, like Rustenburg, Wellington, Brakpan, etc.
11 Nov 2007, 11:37 am
#72 – Thats where you are wrong Tact. I actually OPENLY express my admiration for many of the Bulls players, structures and the sort. I rate Heyneke as a coach – HIGHLY, and I admire the passion of MOST Bulls fans.
I challenge you to find ONE post of your own, when you have OBJECTIVELY commented on anything..without Bulls bias OR in fact, just find a post in which you have even (however pathetically) praised anyone NOT in the Bulls set up. Find that elusive post – and get back to me…I’m shivering in anticipation.
11 Nov 2007, 11:37 am
Tacitus, in my opinion none of your posts warrant any reaction. But I’ll obliged this morning:
Being dedicated in SUPPORT of someting is very different to being fanatically against something else. Your nothing but fanatical.
You on the other hand have some serious issues relating to your anti-Bulls fanaticism.You are talking about yourself? A monologue?
11 Nov 2007, 11:38 am
Ruck
You go find it.
11 Nov 2007, 11:39 am
Whatever happens, I think its a given that Luke Watson will start for the Boks next year and that either Burger, Smith or Spies will be on the bench.
11 Nov 2007, 11:39 am
72… Tact you need to go back and re-read some of your own posts…
They are all Bull… Nothing else matters.
11 Nov 2007, 11:39 am
Thanks to Tacticus my Dad kicked me out of the House when I supported the Crusaders against Bulls. Sniff* Sniff*
I still have nightmares of Horned, vicious bloodthirsty Dutchmen chanting liefling! Make it stop!
11 Nov 2007, 11:40 am
Ruck,
I also thought it strange that Nonu rated an Overseas Stadium more highly than a local one where his Teams would have had more crowd support.
Big Hit.
He only wears eyeliner. He is a man confident in his own persona. Unlike others he does not conform to the pressure to be the same as all the rest.
Dare to be different Bit Hit. It takes guts not to conform. Checky Watson may not be the perfect Human Being……..but from where I am sitting, he was a brave and principled one.
11 Nov 2007, 11:41 am
#77 – No my son…That is your conquest – a true test of your manhood. I send you on that mission with best wishes and a kick up the guava…….
11 Nov 2007, 11:42 am
Gretep
I don’t disagree with that. My point is, being in favour of something is very different from being against something else.
For example. I may be a passionate Bok supporter, but that doesn’t mean I am rabidly anti-All Blacks. When the All Blacks play any other team, I actually support them. It is just when they face the Boks that I see them as the enemy.
11 Nov 2007, 11:43 am
Boerboel, are you in the Winelands district??
11 Nov 2007, 11:45 am
Ruck, I had an office in Stellenbosch for 15yrs. Mail me on boerboelsa at gmail dot com.
11 Nov 2007, 11:46 am
81
Has he ever offered any explanation as to why he wears eyeliner?
11 Nov 2007, 11:46 am
#83 – And you aren’t against, lets say, transformation, the rest of SA, anyone other than Heyneke as coach.
Read your post on Jakes original Bok team in ’04 – Those WP players – Could you not for a second just have said, well they did win the Tri-nations…..even though those players form didn’t warrant Bok selection in recent times????
Thats what I would have said…
11 Nov 2007, 11:46 am
Cane I will explain to you why he like Newlands and not Loftus.
Before a game at Newlands they will go to the Waterfront check out the Mountain and then dine at some of greatest restaurants in SA. After the game, win or lose, they will party it up in the Mothercity.
You get none of this in Twshane… The Bulls players after their game go home and have a Braai with some Biltong and thats about it. They will also be treated shoddily by the(some of the)Public. All in all a boring trip.
11 Nov 2007, 11:46 am
Big Hit
Probably the same reason Tana Umaga hit another player with a handbag.
11 Nov 2007, 11:47 am
Come guys…. the lofus crowd is the most(censoring some words here!!!!) dumpest, flippin one-minded uglyest stupid flippin ahahahah I could go on!!!!!
The crowd is the one that booed Percy while he playing for province(now they think he is king of the rugga world—-proves my point about been a stupid crowd!!)
Devalues black supporters(speaking from experiance!!!)
Thank you Sir Jake White……. for exposing the dark side of South African rugby.
11 Nov 2007, 11:52 am
Ruck
I am against many causes, issues, principles and policies in this world of ours, just like I am for as many others. As, I am sure, anyone with an independent opinion will be.
But I am not AGAINST any particular team in South Africa.
I am not one of those: “I support any team playing against the Bulls.” types.
Not that I am trying to win these anti-Bulls supporters hearts and minds here. Just pointing out the facts to all the self-righteous hypocrites here. They’re as biased in their own way as any fanatical Bulls fan is. It’s just that where the Bulls supporters have a positive bias in favour of their team, the prevalent one in the rest of the country is totally negative, and directed at our team.
Which is fine. We play the situation as it is.
11 Nov 2007, 11:54 am
The problem is that the Bulls fans (speaking generally here, so apologies to anyone who doesn’t fit the mould) have a tough time shaking off their Bulls-mindset to suit the occasion.
I am (unfortunately) an avid WP/Stormers fan, and always will be, yet when I watch the Springboks play I will support whomever is wearing the jersey, as long as they are there on merit, be it Victor Matfield or Percival or Ricky Januarie.
Bulls fans, it seems, retain their insular xenophobia year-in year-out.
11 Nov 2007, 11:54 am
Overseas bloggers: Please do not take the attitudes of the patriots up north, as being the narrow attitude of choice for South Africans in general…
What Nonu’s eyeliner had to do with the way he slammed Hougaard into the turf a couple of times – is beyond me. I wouldn’t care if players wore lipstick and lace g-strings – just get the friggin job done.
11 Nov 2007, 11:54 am
# 86 Big Hit,
The only explanation I have seen him give is this.
“I want to be an All Black, I want to get noticed”.
Actually BH it hasn’t even been mention in NZ for years. The Welshmen who dates the ***** and shaves his legs gets more press over here.
11 Nov 2007, 11:56 am
# 33 BULL DUST MAN!!!!! THE BIGGEST LOAD OF **** I HAVE HEARD THIS ENTIRE YEAR!!!!!!
11 Nov 2007, 11:59 am
Well Said Ritz!
Problem is the site is dominated by the Loftus crowd. There spin doctor (and he is damn good at it) is Tacticus. He doesn’t actually live there though but he would sacrifice a testicle to though(pathetic hey?) He cannot make a post without a subtle racist comment or one prompting up die Bulle.
11 Nov 2007, 12:00 pm
ruck #93
Well said. You may recall all the derision Percy was subjected to when he chose to highlight his hair and wear silver boots…I was just thankful the man was playing for my team and racking points up like there was no tomorrow.
11 Nov 2007, 12:00 pm
Guys, will all the news spilling out with bits and bits of extracts from the book, do you guys think that Jake might survive long enought to even coach the Boks to Wales and Twicks!!
I doubt it!! Stofile and others must be getting ready to rumble!! I bet Jake will be kicked out within 48 hours. What say?
I really want to read about why the non-bulls (no pun intended) did not like playing in Loftus? I think if you look at their results there especially against the All Blacks its very poor!Pretoria may be a fortress for the Bulls, but its pretty leaky when the Boks play there. Jake must be onto something
Also wanna read about Big Vic and Jakes relationship or lack of. I always knew that they did not get on with each other!!
How we won the RWC with all this is really beyond belief!
11 Nov 2007, 12:01 pm
#91 – OK Tacitus. I’ll put the sparkling white on ice, for when I read a post in which you shower compliments on any, animal, vegetable, mineral, player, team, coach which doesn’t come from up north…….
Don’t disappoint me.
11 Nov 2007, 12:03 pm
Cane, who is the Welshman dating the *****?? More interesting, who is the *****??
11 Nov 2007, 12:03 pm
RUCK I LIKE THE COMMENT OF #53
Thank you ruck, proves my point again that the pretoria crowd is STUPID “finish and klaar”
11 Nov 2007, 12:05 pm
# 58 Grey High in PE
11 Nov 2007, 12:05 pm
Ruck
Don’t flatter yourself. As a recent addition to this site you’re a breath of fresh air, and interesting to engage in some verbal sparring with when I’m so inclined, but that’s about as far as it goes.
Bhupendra
Now THAT is an intersting take on things. Jake and Vic have a bad relationship? I thought the article implied that Jake had a GOOD relationship with Victor. If not, I definitely need to read more about it.
11 Nov 2007, 12:06 pm
94
Its an odd thing for sure. A big tough Samoan wearing eyeliner.
lol, I take it you’re not a fan of Charlotte Church.
On a rugby level, I never understood the big deal about Gavin Henson. He can pass, has a big boot and can make decent tackles but the hype of his celebrity is in nowhere near being justified by his level of ability shown on the field.
Gatland will have problems with him just like every other coach. The Welsh public need to accept that he brings more negatives with him than positives.
11 Nov 2007, 12:09 pm
Tacticus of course if it is true that Jake had a bad relationship with Vic then surely Jake was in the wrong right? RIGHT??? Or could Vic have though maybe he was better than the Coach? Of course this could all be a rumour…
11 Nov 2007, 12:10 pm
Percy dyes his hair? what the heck is wrong with these guys.
Henson, Percy, Nonu. Any other fairys to add to the list?
11 Nov 2007, 12:10 pm
Bagel
Why don’t we wait and see what the FACTS are before jumping to any premature conclusions. How about that?
11 Nov 2007, 12:12 pm
103…
Don’t flatter yourself. As a recent addition to this site you’re a breath of fresh air, and interesting to engage in some verbal sparring with when I’m so inclined, but that’s about as far as it goes.
Dude, you met your match in a chick…
That must hurt you bad…..
11 Nov 2007, 12:12 pm
106,
Jonny “I wish I knew how to quit you” Wilkinson.
11 Nov 2007, 12:13 pm
FINAL COMMENT – before I go and do some ironing…..LOL.
Tactitus, My husband is Afrikaans (From an old Tulbagh farming family – conservative as the past). I am from an English/Irish/Jewish family, as liberal as they come. My niece, adopted at 2 months old by my sister, is a little princess of colour. The point I am making:
1. Don’t accuse me of being anti-Afrikaner culture – I married into it, and have funnily enough managed to “loosen” the family up, whilst respecting their culture.
2. I am a forward thinking liberal – which means the term narrow minded never has and never will feature in my thinking
3. My family TRULY is a Rainbow nation in its own right…….AND IT WORKS.
Accuse me then of many things, but NOT of being alientated from THE TRUE South African perspective, because I live it EVERYDAY.
11 Nov 2007, 12:13 pm
#93, Doctor Ruck,
LOL.
Bagel,
Sounds good to me. I always thought that if “The Genie” gave me several wishes, I would take in a Test Match at Kings Park. This would be my pick of any Rugby Venue in the world.
Of course I have only watched on TV.
My International list of preferences would be:-
- Kings Park.
- Millennium Stadium (Cardiff)
- Marseilles (having just watched a WC match there)
- Mewlands.
- Telstra Stadium (Brisbane).
- Murrayfield
11 Nov 2007, 12:13 pm
Why should the opinions of players influence the selection of any other player? If Watson or any other player is deemed to be good enough by the selectors, the players just have to like it or lump it. The national team is not a frat society or Old Boys’ Club.
11 Nov 2007, 12:14 pm
As I said Tacticus probably a rumour… Vic is far to conservative to have an opinion on anything.
11 Nov 2007, 12:14 pm
106… Big Vic’s designer stubble?????
11 Nov 2007, 12:14 pm
But anyway long live South African Rugby!!!!
11 Nov 2007, 12:15 pm
In fairness, Percy might’ve went grey after his humiliating debut defeat to the British Lions
11 Nov 2007, 12:15 pm
#111 – No Twickenham?????
11 Nov 2007, 12:15 pm
Ruck what you just said won’t make sense to Tacticus. Rainbow Nation? Adoption of a child of Colour?
11 Nov 2007, 12:18 pm
Tacitus
Remember a few years ago Jake sent back Victor on the pre-text that he was injured, but Victor played for the bulls the same weekend. Thats when I knew something was fishy.
If you noticed, Jake does not praise Victor alot, he is always going on and on about Smit, Monty, Habana, De Villiers etc but he does not say much about Vic, and it becomes more obviously when you realize that Victor is a superstar and one of the best players in the world!! And I am not just talking about Victors jumping skills.
I think they respected each other but privately they would rather not be together, they just got on with the job in my view.
Thats what I think, but I guess we will just have to read the Book to confirm
11 Nov 2007, 12:19 pm
#116 – Gaffie du Toit is sporting new highlights. Didn’t you watch the Toulouse game last night??
He is looking decidedly French is old Gaffie.
11 Nov 2007, 12:20 pm
Ruck
Thanks for the lowdown on your family history. One question though:
Why share all of this on a rugby blog open to the public? The key to posting on a blog like this is to NEVER get personally involved. You are not Ruck, and I am not Tacitus.
Those are just nicks we chose on Keo.
You, however, are running the risk of letting your personal details spill over onto the blog.
Well done on your Tulbagh family, Rainbow adoptee and Irish/Jewish heritage. But that doesn’t affect the fortunes of the Stormers rugby team one little bit come February 16.
Try to keep the discussion relevent to the forum, if you can.
11 Nov 2007, 12:20 pm
As for the change round in England’s performance levels between the final and that disastrous pool match, James has a good story about that. [Telegraph]
“There was more chat in the pool fixture than the final. I do remember Mark Regan [who had toured South Africa in the summer before the World Cup with England's third string] eyeing up Bakkies Botha at the first scrum. ‘I’m back and I’ve brought my big mates with me,’ Regan growled. Bakkies particularly enjoyed that remark but in the final there wasn’t much going on verbally. That night England let their rugby do the talking for them.”
11 Nov 2007, 12:21 pm
I always thought that Gavin Henson was a “person of colour”, then found out he used fake tan.
I warned Andrew Feinstein at the start of his arms deal investigation that the consequentialist ethic of the ANC would never allow him to get to the truth. His reply to me was that he only wanted to get to the truth. So I’m not surprised that he resigned as an MP. Now he’s upset former friends with his book, like Jake White and other sportsmen have also done with theirs. People don;t like having their private conversations exposed to the world.
11 Nov 2007, 12:27 pm
#111
Telstra Stadium is in Sydney, Cane, and Telstra Dome is in Melbourne. Good choice on Kings Park. On game days one of yhe hugest bbq’s anywhere !! (about 12 rugby fields all around the stadium).
11 Nov 2007, 12:27 pm
Ruck,
The Welshmen is Gavin Henson (a centre) and he dates/or was dating, a “Pop” diva called I think Charlotte (rhymes with harlot) Church.
But this could be old gossip by now.
Gavin does everything Percy and Ma do …….and then some. He goes beyond brave.
Gavin loves Charlotte,
Gavin loves Wales,
Gavin loves rugby,
Gavin loves fashion,
but most of all…….yeah most of all…..Gavin loves Gavin.
11 Nov 2007, 12:30 pm
Ruck,
Gaffie’s [unknown] father was one of the French players on the 1975 tour to South Africa. He should do well in France.
11 Nov 2007, 12:31 pm
#121 – I have no fear of “spilling” over personal details dude. Find me if you want to, you’re still going to have a hard time. I am putting into perspective, the debate started on Friday, with poor old Katman taking the most stick…..
Todays continuation is based on the Loftus “conservative” mindset, that seems to be highlighted everytime someone from up there posts.
I am showing you, (or trying to at least) what a REAL South African perspective is, you seem to think the only real SA perspective worthy of comment, is the one that lives north of the Jukskei. The reality is so much more than that Tact – and thats what I deal in: REALITY.
If to motivate my “thinking”, I have to divulge some “Personal information”, so be it. Thats what those of us with NOTHING TO HIDE do.
So what, now you or some other freak tracks me down, through the titbits I’ve given here??
NOT LIKELY….
11 Nov 2007, 12:33 pm
Gaffie du Toit!
A man I was told back in 1998 would be the next Naas Botha!! And it never happened!! What a waste of talent!!
Frans Steyn is gona be a great!
11 Nov 2007, 12:34 pm
Gavin is now a father at the grand old age of 25
11 Nov 2007, 12:34 pm
Gavin Henson was God for a while too. Now he’s a daddy…
11 Nov 2007, 12:35 pm
#106 Big Hit,
At any given time half the English backline.
11 Nov 2007, 12:37 pm
Ruck
No worries Ruck. You’re safe from me. Although I can’t speak on behalf of anyone else. There are after all, some real freaks on this blog.
11 Nov 2007, 12:39 pm
131
Well, the other half is going to be filled by Lesley Vainikolo in the not to distant future, so I think we’ll be just fine.
11 Nov 2007, 12:41 pm
Outwide #111.
Help me out here!
I have driven past the “New” Brisbane Test venue but obviously I’m too thick to read the signage.
11 Nov 2007, 12:43 pm
Ruck/Tacitus
I’d definitely like to have a cup of tea with you both, when I come over to South Africa one day!
Until then its goeie naand!
11 Nov 2007, 12:45 pm
The Reds play a Ballymore and the tests in Brisbane are usually at Suncorp Stadium. I think.
11 Nov 2007, 12:49 pm
#Cane
The Reds actually play at Suncorp too since 2005. Was originally known as Lang Park.
11 Nov 2007, 12:49 pm
The truth is, when I watch matches from Loftus on tv and the stadium is packed with fans for either a Bull or Bok game, my heart beats faster!! Its a bull ring indeed! I can imagine it but have never experience it!! Opposition players and supporters must cop and earful though! But Loftus is a ground every rugbyplayers wants to play on at least once in his life!
A shame that the great Ellis Park has not experienced a full house for a test in a long time!
11 Nov 2007, 12:52 pm
Solanky,
If you invited me it would be a 4-some.
I have never been to SA, but I think Stellenbosh sounds like a nice place for a Kiwi, a Fijian, a Bulls fan and Weepee to have a cup of tea…….and a gingernut.
Do they have gingernuts in SA?
(a ginger flavoured biscuit….very hard, best dunked in a cup of tea before being consumed.
11 Nov 2007, 12:56 pm
Outwide.
Thanks……….The home of the Bronco’s…….and the Reds.
11 Nov 2007, 12:57 pm
Cane
Indeed, Stellenbosch sounds good! But I was thinking of somewhere under the shadows of the Table Mountain!! Maybe a few glasses of that famous Nederberg wine and some kaas (cheese)!Or is there something better tasting!!
11 Nov 2007, 13:05 pm
Solanky,
You could bring some Carva.(spelling)
Tacitus some humility,
Ruck some fine SA Sav Blanc,
Outwide some Queensland Prawns,
Big Hit some Real Ale,
I will bring a packet of M&M’s.
11 Nov 2007, 13:06 pm
Tacitus
“You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”
11 Nov 2007, 13:08 pm
#141 – Loads better tasting dude. Thats why Stellies is the place to meet…
Tacitus – coming to think of it – It seems as though “Tacitus” is some sort of alter ego thing for you. You seem to be able to split you real self from your alter (in fact you tried to explain it to me in that post where you lashed at me for divulging personal info….)
My nick is Ruck, but Ruck IS NOT an alter ego of the real me. Ruck speaks my thoughts, opinions and lives MY realities, so Ruck is basically ME (just in drag if you wish)…..
YOU seem to give “Tacitus” a life of its own – separate from the REAL you…….or am I mistaken??
Anyways Tacitus, I have no fear of any of the “freaks”. In my professional opinion, most of them seem to be from UP NORTH…and should one of them track me down, I just have to wave my Bobby/Percy poster in their faces – and poof, gone. Or as an alternative method of defence against the freaks, I could mention the number of times WP have won the Currie Cup since its inception……..GONE.
I hope to meet you one day Tacitus….but I doubt you share that sentiment.
11 Nov 2007, 13:18 pm
#142 – Perhaps Cane, you could bring young Daniel Carter along???
11 Nov 2007, 13:23 pm
Hello ruck, Boerboel, Tacitus, Johannes Expatinus, en alle ander Mties en Stellenboschers.
Boerboel, lyk daai ou Matrkrkgraaf is ook maar n moerse ‘schemer’.
Al die pad agter Jake se bloed na daai Brian van Rooyen-storie.
Luke is weg nou, lyk my.
Moontlik die volgende ‘Mighty Elephants’ kaptein, as ou Cheeky weer n paar ANC- toue trek.
Jammerte.
Luke was nie n te slegte rugbyspeler nie.
As ek hy was, sou ek dik de donner ek gewees het vir my pa.
11 Nov 2007, 13:25 pm
Doc Ruck,
Why Oh why, would I bring along the competition.
11 Nov 2007, 13:39 pm
#147 – LOL. Just a thought…a “suggestion” if you wish.
Hello Pietman – Tacitus is not to be grouped with the rest of us Maties/Stellenboschers – he don’t like us no more..
I swear this anti-****** Andre Markgraaf will force my father out of his grave. My dad hated him, Harold Verster and a few others. Markgraaf has always been in the shadows, waiting to pounce – pure evil, always has been, always will be. He carries NO interests other than his own – end of.
I am so upset about this whole Watson saga being dragged up again in Jake’s book. The kid does not deserve ALL this **** – and I would feel the same for any other player, regardless of who they were.
This sucks, truly sucks – BUT, I feel Luke will have the last laugh, he IS a great player, mentally strong, and believe it or not – still has a huge following and stax of support. He will use all this **** to his benefit – His form on the field will be doing the talking in future.
11 Nov 2007, 13:48 pm
148# ruck
I am very disappointed at Markgraaf, really.
I had my doubts about him ever since that Piet Bester racist incident (not to mention him giving Springbok colours to Theo Oosthuizen, Franco Smith and Boeta Wessels).
This man is the Saddam Hussein of SA rugby.
And I feel sorry for Luke too.
But Cheeky’s aspirations got the better of him.
Luke could have been a Springbok captain on his merits and in his own time, but his father wanted some ‘political spice’ with it.
And now the flavour is gone………..and so is his boy.
Pity.
11 Nov 2007, 13:50 pm
this white character has no scruples whatsoever his personal vendetta with the watsons is blatantly plain to see.
This arrogant little two bit scheming conniving double dealer herewith gloats at how he successfully succeeded in ostricizing and orchestrating a mass hate campaign against a young rugby playing individual purely to enhance his own mega inflated egotistical control.
He strikes me as a little baby gloating in the fact that he’s now fresh out of manure to rub his nose in. Who is the supposed adult in the movie because Jake White cries like a little infant looking for sympathetic favors. I wonder which rugby nation will be willing to take such an immature imbecile on as a national coach to lead their country into battle, good luck to the fools whoever they may be.
It still stands clear that without Eddy Jones stroking his little ego and holding his insecure little hands through his trial of expectations Jake would have capitulated and folded like he did all those other tests before including losing to France at home and 49-0 to Aus in Brisbane, besides this WC was so there for the taking any coach worth the title would have easily lapped up such a non contest in his stride.
11 Nov 2007, 13:51 pm
Hello skopskiet
You enjoying the cricket?
It looks as if the Kiwi’s are going to get chopped again.
11 Nov 2007, 13:56 pm
skopskiet…Yawn.
Jake is gone, give it a rest. Let’s look ahead and give the new coach all the support he deserves. Give Jake a break and let him enjoy the success he cultivated in SA rugby. The foreign media (read Rugby Heaven) have nothing but praise for Jake, why can’t you just accept he’s a great coach and manager.
What did he do to you bud? You’re so vindictive it has to be personal. I’m sure ruck can squeeze you in for a session. I’ve not made tis plea to you personal, give Jake the same grace.
11 Nov 2007, 13:58 pm
skopskiet
I, with others like Jinx here, grew up in the shadows of Newlands’ grandstand.
Went I went the first time with my grandfather, I was three years old.
And Jinx used to sell prorammmes at the grounds on Saturdays. His uncle Alan worked at Logan Sports in Long Street all his live, and the a
old boy still goes to Newlands regurlarly at the age of of 75. So does muy grandpa.
We are WP born and bred.
But no Luke Watson, please.
His kind does not belong in Province colours.
Sorry.
11 Nov 2007, 14:01 pm
153# Pardon the spelling, I am a bit emotional when it gets to WP rugby and its traditions.
Luke doesn’t belong there, his kind doesn’t appreciate that kind of thing.
11 Nov 2007, 14:01 pm
The antithesis should now prevail. Any smug little anti Luke anti inclusive pro white is right campaigner should simply get on the same g’dam bus with their benefactor and f’off noordwards. This downright under handed game has gone on quite enough. White is not worthy to be heralded as a hero whatsoever in my book he’s a downright shame to integrity.
He can take his sour grapes and f’off to obscurity as far as his little under handed shaky legs will take him.
11 Nov 2007, 14:02 pm
Cheeky Watson, Jake White, the politicians, the administrators, the media and the public ARE all guilty of “scarlet lettering” young Luke. Whatever the kids faults (rugby talent he has in abundance), no player deserves the treatment and scorn this kid has been dished, and is STILL being dished. It really pisses me off….
Its perhaps easier to ruin a talented player, than to admit how much the rest of us (see above) all suck at life……..
11 Nov 2007, 14:05 pm
155# skoppie
Easy on the language.
I got mentioned in some dictionary once for stretching the the ‘Queens lingua’ a bit too far.
I am still embarrassed by it, and I hope my mother never gets hold of that book.
Ask Ig, seriously!
11 Nov 2007, 14:07 pm
156# ruck
Agreed, he (Luke) doesn’t deserve it.
“Maar die voorouers het groen druiwe geeet en nou is die kinders se tande stomp”.
Hy moet waai uit die WP, dat ons kan aangaan.
11 Nov 2007, 14:07 pm
Are you an author Pietman?? (Fact/fiction/educational). Would I have read anything you’ve written?
11 Nov 2007, 14:09 pm
ruck
Educational, mostly…hehehehehe!
But I am anti-Luke, ever since he has set foot in the Cape.
The old bloggers here can bear me out.
11 Nov 2007, 14:09 pm
Again skopskiet…Yawn.
11 Nov 2007, 14:11 pm
155# skoppie
“Sour grapes”.
I only notice it now.
Read my 158#, posted the same time as yours.
Great minds, I say, different application though.
11 Nov 2007, 14:16 pm
Its not what he did to me, its what he thinks he successfully got away with which rankles my brain.
I am extremely not only disappointed with the manner in which he manipulated and connived his way through his 4 years of mostly losses when they mattered but also at how gullible and fooled the bulk of you the rugby public have become, his divisive influence and childish retaliation shows him up to be the immature idiot I always knew he was. This issue of gloating how Luke was never initiated into bok colors and how his little ya broers ganged up against a fellow individual with exactly the same ideals and ambitions as them shows what a lousy downright vindictive double dealing individual he actually is.
Besides mostly his rugby coaching ability left very much to be desired or has he hoodwinked you to believing he’s so g’dam **** hot still?
11 Nov 2007, 14:16 pm
OK Pietman, so whilst studying I might have had to devour a book or 2 of yours??
I’m a pro-Luke campaigner, even though I’m also a born, bred and will die WP diehard. (Although after last season, suicide was looking attractive….)
Lets see what the new season holds, for province and country. I am, to be honest pretty hopeful on both counts.
11 Nov 2007, 14:25 pm
Vat Luke se WP en Springboktrui terug, en jaag hom en sy pa terug CB toe.
Hulle plannetjies het nie uitgewerk nie.
Luke is n ‘goner’…innie Kaap.
Laat hy gaan.
11 Nov 2007, 14:28 pm
He gets his just deserts in my book cast out into the obscure never lands of rugby’s never world. His character traits or lack thereof will show him up as if truly is a whining vindictive manipulative arrogant egotist.
11 Nov 2007, 14:31 pm
Pietman
As iemand wat self ook ‘n sterk WP span wil sien (hel, ek wil he WP moet die 2de sterkste span in die land wees), stem ek saam dat Luke die doring in WP se vlees is, of ten minste een van die dorings. Fester was blykbaar nie sterk genoeg om Luke op sy plek te sit nie, maar dit smaak my Rassie gaan nie dieselfde nonsens opvreet nie.
Luke kannie groter as die span wees nie. Dit is sy probleem.
11 Nov 2007, 14:33 pm
#166
Skoppies, have you actually even read the book?
You seem to be forgetting that we’re World champs??? And no, that is not only because of Eddie!
11 Nov 2007, 14:36 pm
White’s book should be called “Not Black or White”, because essentially he is a Grey character. Meaning that he is not all good or all bad.
White had to deal with some impossible situations that were unfairly thrust upon him, and he had to deal with some situations that were of his own making.
In the end he achieved his primary goal – the World Cup, but at what cost to himself?
11 Nov 2007, 14:37 pm
Tacitus #167
Ek wil nie saam met jou stem nie, nie graag nie, jy seinde n Bul en als.
Maar jy het my op hierdie een.
Ek stem saam (fluister).
11 Nov 2007, 14:38 pm
170
Ek verstaan Pietman.
11 Nov 2007, 14:39 pm
it will be a brave coach that will take on this hornets nest now. I’ll tell you what I would do if I were coach I’d throw the cat amongst the pigeons and blow this little farce divisiveness right out of the water once and for all, to f.ng kingdom come.
11 Nov 2007, 14:40 pm
skopskiet
I agree with you regarding Jakes integrity.
He did or does not have the same hero status a Kitch Christie but he needs to sell a book.
Negative press is what sells in SA…people will buy his book…those who love him and those who love to hate him.
I do believe that Luke watson whilst a good player…he is overrated…and worse he is well known not to be a team player. But to go and make public one’s personal indifference to the player and his family is underhanded.
11 Nov 2007, 14:40 pm
Skopskiet, you’re entitled to your opinion. I don’t think Jake was a **** hot coach, he was however a fine manager. He’s put many processes in place that will only benefit SA Rugby, and the next coach long term (Prozone to name but one).
I’m tired of defending him, just as you should be tired of constantly slating him. Everyone knows you don’t like him, please give it a rest now.
His reign is over, he finished a winner. Looking forward to your Non-Jake posts, it’s becoming an obsession with you, it ain’t healthy.
11 Nov 2007, 14:40 pm
Tacitus – I’ve cracked open the bubbly. You want to see a strong Stormers team?? I don’t think Luke is as much of a problem within the WP set up, as what people think. Our problems went far deeper than just young Watson (even though I’m in the pro Luke camp – I don’t think he should captain, and he has acted pretty tiresomely in the past)
Schalk Brits whinged and moaned more in the local media than Luke ever has – truth. I don’t think Fester could control his own bladder – never mind a senior rugby team. Felt sorry for him 2 though, the players needed to be dsiciplined, but not in the way he seemed to prefer) Rassie will not tolerate ANY **** – and I think this is where we’ll see the most improvement: GENERAL ATTITUDE.
Gary Gold already made a huge difference the latter half of the Currie Cup.
That said, I still worry about our front row, more than the effect young Luke will have on the team.
11 Nov 2007, 14:41 pm
Tact/Yetirat
Just looking at the ‘glossery’ of the book, I think Jake has to be saluted.
But, f#ck, I am so pissed of at Cheeky and his kind trying to pull a stunt like that!
The double, two faced, back biting cheeting ba#tard!!!!
He is going down big this time, and his son Luke with him.
And hopefully that will be the end of the Watson legacy in SA rugby.
Bliksems!!!
11 Nov 2007, 14:42 pm
Calm down Pietman, take a deep breath.
11 Nov 2007, 14:42 pm
skop
I’ve never been a Jake fan, although not as rabid as yourself. The first time I really started questioning his character was when he referred to some senior players (de Wet and Joubert) as having let him down and disappointed him. Now, I can’t see players of their calibre going out of their way to personally spite Jake by losing form and playing badly. Of course their could have been some other tensions that he was referring to. I think that I mentioned in an earlier post that I believed Jake gets far too close to his players than is healthy. Gaining respect is one thing, using his abilty to give or withold personal approval amounts to an abusive personality.
11 Nov 2007, 14:46 pm
Clanerk
Thanx bro!
Will do, wife says the same here on my shoulder, when she heard me swearing on my own out here at the PC.
11 Nov 2007, 14:47 pm
Pietman, Cheeky is on the Presidents Council now. I am not kidding. So, I believe the legacy is far from dead.
11 Nov 2007, 14:52 pm
this issue was not created either by cheeky or by luke it was created and sustained through two whole years of vindictive vigorous ostricism by none other than Jake White and John Smit and eventually endorsed by the shallow individuals who call themselves sportsmen.
Sies they should be ashamed of themselves all of them.
11 Nov 2007, 14:52 pm
I’m really excited for the future, who knows where things are going?
The possible end of quota selections.
Government involvement with development at a high.
LOADS of talent coming through
A new coach, new ideas with established players and structures.
Let’s hope we go from strength to strength.
11 Nov 2007, 14:52 pm
180# ruck
Who is the Presidents’s Council, Komphela’s outfit?
If so, they have no legacy to speak of.
They haven’t done sh#te yet.
11 Nov 2007, 14:55 pm
ruck
I wonder if Stofile is just strengthening his support or whether he’s also sending a message to Cheeky to stop talking and start sorting out EP rugby?
If Cheeky did try and blackmail Jake then his integrity is in shatters. How could he do this to his own son? It’s a bit like Smuts remark that he didn’t struggle to be poor. The Springbok captaincy is not a reward for being an activist.
11 Nov 2007, 14:57 pm
Somebody, please, help me out here.
I am getting lost with all these councils involved in rugby all of a sudden.
Who is the ‘PC’ that you guys keep referring to here:
Parliamentary Committee
Provincial Council or Committee
President’s Council (this one I don’t know).
And on which of these do old Cheeky serve?
11 Nov 2007, 15:00 pm
” … do old Cheeky and Markgraaf serve…?”, I meant.
11 Nov 2007, 15:01 pm
thank you david. The truth about an individuals true character will eventually out even though they may succeed in manipulatively hoodwinking an entire nation in their quest for personal vain glory their just rewards will in the end come home to roost as I believe they have now begun to do in this charlatains case
11 Nov 2007, 15:04 pm
#184 – Possibly with Cheeky in the public eye (being on the PC and having the public watch his every move) Cheeky will be forced to sort out the EC mess. Although I had to laugh Pat de Silva the EC President, I think, says Cheeky has done LOADS of good work already – I don’t see it, do you??
Thats why I feel so sorry for Luke, between his father and the rest, he stood no chance. Betya Cheeky said something in the line of, “make my son captain and I will get you ALL the political backing you need, whatever you want….”
Pretty crappy. And now Jake is, in turn further selling the kid down the river – Sheez it sucks.
11 Nov 2007, 15:05 pm
skopskiet
Luke started his ‘big shot’ pilgrimage at Grey High in PE, tried it at Natal and then got ousted for it in CT.
He is a journeyman.
Pity, because he could have been good, looking back at his performances at Craven Week level.
But he is gone now, so say bye-bye Luke, and accept it.
He is gone.
11 Nov 2007, 15:08 pm
skopskiet = Cheeky Watson?
11 Nov 2007, 15:19 pm
gone just like his detractors white and smit, whats good for the goose is just as well good for the gander Pietman, besides neither Smit nor White could handle Watson thats why they conspired to gang up against him.
I remember well how Watson almost single handedly shone out in that sharks outfit in 2005 over in Aus and Nz he was the singular stand out player and even the Aussie and Kiwi players and scribes could not understand how come he wasn’t a bok yet, we knew why at least some of up did but they couldn’t quite fathom how come.
11 Nov 2007, 15:25 pm
191# skoppie
Yes, ‘singular’ and ‘single’, just the way you described Luke.
The boy sure is ‘single’ out there in rugb wilderness.
But old old Cheeky is probably already planning the next move.
But, please anyone.
This ‘PC’, my #185?
Who are these people and what are they about?
And how many ‘PC’s’ have we got?
11 Nov 2007, 15:26 pm
Nobody can deny that Luke had/has the talent to be a Springbok. When Jake says players didn’t want then its understandable that he didn’t pick him cause that would just disrupt the team but when he says he wasn’t good enough that is just ****…
11 Nov 2007, 15:27 pm
Jake is going to be on Carte Blanche tonight to talk about his book. With all the hype in the Sunday papers and no doubt some of the things he says tonight, I will not be surprised if the dimwits fire him before the tour to Wales.
11 Nov 2007, 15:27 pm
Pietman
The Presidents Council is the real deal, the leadership of SARU. That council which each president of a union gets a seat on, and which makes all the KEY decisions, like the hiring and firing of coaches.
Seems like Cheeky managed to wriggle his way onto this board.
11 Nov 2007, 15:30 pm
By being a political activist to you get to be on the PC?
11 Nov 2007, 15:31 pm
Tacitus
Thanks.
So you have to be president of a rugby union to get onto this thing then?
Cheeky is president of what union?
11 Nov 2007, 15:32 pm
Hi Ruck/Pietman/Tac/Cane and rest of folk with nothing better to do on a sunny sunday pm(cane excl). Cane enjoy your bikkies in the small hours.
Luke? Agree Ruck. Great player. Bad timing. Maverick persona. Not a true rugga-bugga I think. Will battle with his team-mates around the bar counter after a game. Tea is not the thirst-quencher for those occasions most times, unless you’re playing for the under 16′s.
11 Nov 2007, 15:32 pm
Pietman, I think he is considered head of EP?
11 Nov 2007, 15:32 pm
Bagel #196
No, seriously.
It bugs me how these people get elected to these ‘mega buck’ positions.
11 Nov 2007, 15:33 pm
Pietman
No, I speak under correction, but I think the Council has like 20 members, 14 of which are the presidents of the 14 unions. Not sure how the other 6 or so are elected – but Cheeky is obviously one of those. They say he was only “co-opted” temporarily, until February, so I don’t know what that means.
But that means he has a vote in the meantime on all the issues they vote on, I assume.
11 Nov 2007, 15:34 pm
Pietman/Tacitus: Cheeky wasa co-opted onto the PC on Thursday. It has to do with him being in charge of sorting out the EP rugby mess. He will remain co-opted until Feb, when his position will be reviewed. Pietman, Harold Verster and CO get themselves re-elected through cash offers and petty corruption. Each union has a seat, and a vote – I think the bigger unions get 2 votes???
David – give us the rundown please…
11 Nov 2007, 15:35 pm
Ruck = Jake
dis waar. Julle het dit eerste hier gehoor.
11 Nov 2007, 15:35 pm
Bagel
Maybe.
I think Cheeky is the vice over there at the moment.
Perhaps he was sent from EP union then.
11 Nov 2007, 15:36 pm
This was not about rugby talent alone, if it was uke would have been a springbok a long long time ago, this was all about personal vendettas and under handed manipulations this way and that, and the pawn in their god forsaken game happened to be a talented and leadership material young rugby player who by no immediate choice of his own was singled out as a divisive element purely as a result of his fathers previous political affiliations, it stinks to high heaven and Jake White is by far the major instigator and detractor in this instance. (along with his ya broer band of lily livered disciples)
11 Nov 2007, 15:39 pm
202# ruck
Yes, Harold Verster wouldn’t have gotten it any other way. He is from the old BBB school (Broeder Bribery Bond).
I was just wondering about what people do at this ‘PC’.
But I have an idea now, thanks to you guys.
But if the PC is the real boss, what does SARU do then?
11 Nov 2007, 15:40 pm
Luke is a woesie and is far too lightweight for any serious games!
11 Nov 2007, 15:40 pm
193 Out of the mouths of babes, I believe bagel is exactly 17 years old if I am correct in assuming this? Even he can see wood for trees and b!sht for what its worth.
11 Nov 2007, 15:40 pm
Sorry. Luke just ain’t good enough to be a Bok.
The following loose forwards are ahead of him in the queue.
Schalk Burger
Juan Smith
Pierre Spies
Danie Roussouw (and he isn’t even a real loose forward)
Pedrie Wannenburg
Wikus van Heerden
Baywatch (I don’t know his real name)
Hendro Scholtz
Kankowski
I’m sure I left some guys out.
I can’t put Skinstad here, because the other day, in order to bolster an argument on another thread, I said the even Luke Watson is better than Skinstad, so I’m stuck with that now. But I think its a serious toss-up between the two.
11 Nov 2007, 15:41 pm
ahh, SA rugby, never a dull moment
11 Nov 2007, 15:42 pm
EK BID DIE VOLGENDE SPELERS HAAL VLG JAAR DIE BOKSPAN:
JP Nel
Johan Roets
Liefling
Heinie Adams
P3
Jaco Engels
Derick Kuun
11 Nov 2007, 15:43 pm
205# skoppie
Luke didn’t cut it, that’s all.
We have Kabamba, Juan, Schalk, Ernst Joubert, Duane Vermeulen, Francois Louw, Lobberts, Daniels, and a host of others ahead of him.
Forget about Luke now.
Let the boy be.
11 Nov 2007, 15:43 pm
Tacitus, I think there are more than 20 idiots that vote. Which is why the Hoskins and Stofile camps are becoming PRETTY obvious to the rest of us – in the build up to the Feb election of the new President. Stofile vs Hoskins.
Well, we all know who Harry Potter “I speak like a girl” Verster supports….Not sure where WP have aligned themselves this time around – but they better back the right horse, Hoskins or I shall have to perform at Newlands…..
11 Nov 2007, 15:44 pm
So what is Watson snr going to do on the PC then?
Suggest to the others that the team has to include his son? Come-on. He’d have to be a royal twat to put forward that motion.
I don’t know the man one inch but I can recall him standing up for what he thought was right. Can admire a dude for that alone. To be invited onto the PC, he cannot be a dimwit, like the Border president, and invoke blatent prejudices(in son’s favor). Surely?
11 Nov 2007, 15:44 pm
Twhaneerder.
Stadig nou. Jy wil nie die mense op hierdie blog laat verstik nie. Ons hou sulke gedagtes maar eers vir onsself totdat Heyneke formeel as coach aangewys word.
11 Nov 2007, 15:44 pm
Luke Watson would walk into any other international team (incl the ABs at 6). Not sure I would say the same about Roussouw and Wannenburg.
11 Nov 2007, 15:44 pm
Waar is die Blou Bul Rassiste nou?
Kom uit, ek sal julle nou uitsort!!!!!!!!!
11 Nov 2007, 15:45 pm
ruck
Keep Hoskins.
He is ok.
11 Nov 2007, 15:45 pm
Big Hit
You’re delusional.
11 Nov 2007, 15:45 pm
*on form, that is. But the SA backrow of Burger, Smith who play his positions is impenetratable.
11 Nov 2007, 15:45 pm
Big Hit
That sounds a bit better.
11 Nov 2007, 15:47 pm
Verster and Markgraaf and Watson and Stofile all representative on the same PC board, now who wants to stipulate this thing is leftist or right, from what I can see they are from opposite sides of the political spectrum, so how come all of them can’t stomach this white mans credentials, surely therein lies the answer to your riddle, they either all got to be no good or else he is down right a perfect saint, so which is it, white is the hard done by pure innocent, or the rest of them are unsavory bigoted no good rubbish political moguls, he is just as much a party to the snake infested pit as the rest, no more no less.
11 Nov 2007, 15:47 pm
Big Hit
Luke can only walk into their change rooms when they are not playing! Hes not gonna do any more walking anywhere!
11 Nov 2007, 15:48 pm
He’s good enough to get a shout in most Int teams IMO. Its not his quality in question. I venture it might be his ability to fit into a team. Hope he gets given a chance to adjust though. He’s mighty bloody good from where I sit in the stands.
11 Nov 2007, 15:49 pm
The loose forwards in the 2008 Bok matchday squad of 22 will be:
Pierre Spies
Juan Smith
Schalk Burger
Bench:
Roussouw
Van Heerden
Where is Luke going to fit into that group? He just ain’t good enough.
11 Nov 2007, 15:50 pm
#211 tshwaneerder
You must be taking the piss? Those players are a joke and I hope your post was a joke.
11 Nov 2007, 15:52 pm
Waar is Ruck?
Ek het vir haar nuus oor haar geliefde Province.
Rassie het teenoor sekere ex-Bul erken hy het die fout van sy loopbaan gemaak om Kaap toe te gaan. As dit nie die coloured gangster element in die vorm van Bolla is wat hom grief nie dan is dit die manne “Luke & Schalk Britz” wat nie wil luister nie.
Watch this space doll, Rassie gaan waai!
11 Nov 2007, 15:52 pm
Hello AB
Gannit swaer?
Waar is jy Maandag 4 Feb, want ek is daar in ‘Snordorp’ dan?
Kan jy by die Dros in Moreletta wees montlik?
11 Nov 2007, 15:53 pm
Tswaneerder.
In daardie geval, sal ons dalk vir Rassie as Heyneke se opvolger by die Bulle sien?
Dis al high profile coaching opening wat op die oomblik bestaan.
11 Nov 2007, 15:53 pm
#226
Players who won the Super 14 a joke, Are you Jake White/Ian Mac/Peter Jooste?
11 Nov 2007, 15:54 pm
howzit skop
can’t resist a stab at Mr W hey?
He’s gonna haunt you til the point you’re pushing up them daisies fella.
White not entirely blameless. Agreed. But in the same league as the carrots on the PC. I don’t think so. Markies is the standout for me. I’d sooner see him run over by a tractor for all the good he does our beloved sport.
11 Nov 2007, 15:54 pm
tswhaneerder
Sal my nie verbaas nie. Rassie was te haastig vir die Kaap.
Dinge is kuk daar op die oomblik, ek se jou.
11 Nov 2007, 15:55 pm
#230 No I’m not, but I have half a brain and no horns up my arse.
JP…give me a break.
11 Nov 2007, 15:55 pm
Tac, how about injuries boy?
You saying those 5 are going to stay upright the entire ’08 season?
11 Nov 2007, 15:55 pm
226# Clanerk
Hy terg man!
11 Nov 2007, 15:56 pm
TSWANEERDER? Had some of Cape Town’s finest TIK son?? Even Heyneke is not that “verkramp”. What crackhouse up north you sitting in son??
Let Meyer put that lot in the Bok team (Roets outta retirement…) – and he will have the shortest coaching tenure in SA Rugby history – end of. Which sort of suits the rest of us……
I agree Tassies, At least Cheeky Watson has always stood up for what he believed was right – For that he HAS to be given credit.
11 Nov 2007, 15:57 pm
Ek is elke Sondag by daai Dros vir brekvis na kerk! So natuurlik kan en sal ek dit maak Pietman!
11 Nov 2007, 15:57 pm
No Pietman, die koeel is nou deur die kerk ja ek waardeur en besef dit is nou so, but unrightly so and unjustly so, the unfair poor management and disparagement of an individual has been allowed to go uncorrected in the false notion that he was ‘not good enough’, by whose standards, yours or Jakes or John Smits?
We have a fountain of talented loose forwards here but to accept Tyibalika or Floors or Wannenburg or Roussouw or Spies or Scholtz were better no.6 or no.7 candidates back in the time when these same players were being handed rugby lessons by Australia and NZ, and when it was pretty obvious that this Watson boy was at least as good if not better than some of the incumbent favorites of the time then, is just as blindly bigoted as the national coach who would not admit to his own failures.
11 Nov 2007, 15:57 pm
231# Tassies
Pasop nou, vir Markgraaf.
Ek vertrou daai ou sover as ek hom kan sien.
11 Nov 2007, 15:57 pm
Is jy seker Pietman? If so, egg on my face and good joke tshwaneerder.
Anyways…cheers boys and ruck, got to get the Christmas shopping done.
11 Nov 2007, 15:59 pm
237# AB
Ek en Pampoen sal jou en vroutjie daar sien, dis n Maandag ongelukkig.
Maar ons mail nader na die tyd.
11 Nov 2007, 15:59 pm
Pietman
100%
11 Nov 2007, 15:59 pm
Thwaneerder
Hoe seker is jy oor die Rassie storie?
11 Nov 2007, 16:01 pm
#240 – He aint’ joking…..
Tassies, A tractor to end Markgraaf – rather a bus Tassies, (to make sure the job is done properly) AND then I would still open the coffin to make sure he really is gone for good…..
Evil piece of quilt that one….
11 Nov 2007, 16:02 pm
Ruck
Ons bust gereeld hier ouens met dwelms op ons lughawens. Julle aan die annerkant kan nie, julle kan nie ‘n vliegtuig eers laat opstyg nie, julle kan nie eers die dwelms en gangsters (Bolla, Luke) VASVAT nie. Julle kan nie die Currie Cup wen nie en toe julle destyds ‘n kans gehad het om die Super 14 te wen, toe doen julle wat Cosatu doen: STRIKE.
Dis al wat julle kan doen:
STRIKE.
11 Nov 2007, 16:02 pm
i agree that jake was treated badly and i think he did a fantastic job as coach but it does not make sense when he tells us that he did not have time to re-apply for the coaching job due to post world cup commitments if he managed to find the time to complete his book (his book includes the RWC success)
11 Nov 2007, 16:04 pm
TACTICUS
100 % seker, want ek werk waar meeste Blou Bulle en hul skeidsregters gewerk het of nog werk.
11 Nov 2007, 16:05 pm
obviously Clanerk
11 Nov 2007, 16:05 pm
I knew it the moment I heard it Rassie is going to see his arse here at WP, he hasn’t got the balls to handle and take on this kind of job, he’s still way too wet behind the ears.
11 Nov 2007, 16:05 pm
245# Swannie
Hey, hey, watchit, ek is WP!
En my span is volgende jaar terug, onthou nou.
En Nic Koster gaan die kuk uit julle mannetjies hol, ek vertel jou!
Weet jy van wie ek praat?
Pasop ou maat.
11 Nov 2007, 16:05 pm
Tshwaneerder – If Rassie can’t take the heat down south, he shouldn’t have even entered the kitchen. We all know there are problems here – never denied it. Schalk Brits says far too much for my liking most of the time…….BUT, with Brendan Venter and Gary Gold assisting, Rassie should be able to handle it. If not, how the hell is he EVER going to make Bok coach one day????
Its going to be a test of Rassie’s character – if he runs – he’s ruined.
11 Nov 2007, 16:07 pm
NICHOLAS KOSTER GAAN HULLE VIR JARE NOG LAAT HUIL……..
11 Nov 2007, 16:11 pm
Koster, another Skinstad, another Watson, another Spies, just waiting to be ruined by the high expectations of his adoring fanatical expectant adulators.
11 Nov 2007, 16:12 pm
Nic Koster is die arm man se Pierre Spies!
11 Nov 2007, 16:13 pm
tswane
the only items worth talking about in Pretoria are your ladies, the jacarandas and the weather.
Oh. and your proximity to some decent game reserves.
11 Nov 2007, 16:14 pm
Ruck
Daar is meer as net probleme. Ek dink Oom Butana moet by julle ingryp. hahahahahahahahaha
11 Nov 2007, 16:14 pm
Read on another thread a few days ago that Loftus still has segregated bars.
Is that for real ? Is it legal ?
11 Nov 2007, 16:16 pm
100 % seker, want ek werk waar meeste Blou Bulle en hul skeidsregters gewerk het of nog werk.
Comment by tshwaneerder : November 11, 2007 @ 4:04 pm
DIE TSHWANE BESTAAN NIE CAMPAIGN HEADQUARTERS??
Listen son, the way you attack players PERSONALLY, makes me wonder if you know them?? If you don’t, rather keep a zip on it. You accuse players of being gangsters and drug dealers?? – Not very classy at all. Quite tacky in fact – and bordering on Crimen Injuria.
Secondly, if Joost van der Westhuizen is the ex-player Rassie “confided in”, I wouldn’t believe it – I mean Joost also said his wife was a great singer……..
11 Nov 2007, 16:17 pm
#257 – Its not legal anywhere else in the country mate. It frikkin sucks…
11 Nov 2007, 16:18 pm
Yes Pietman! Hoe gaadit?
11 Nov 2007, 16:21 pm
Rassie hasn’t even started yet girls. Don’t go jumping the cannon now. Think Mr Erasmus is going to have a ball down here in the next few years with the talent Mallet and his friends have lined up for him. Venter and Gold both know what they’re about and have a good team track record(L Irish recall) so I think us Capies are going to start enjoying visits to our stadion in future. More than the Bulls will if Victor doesn’t come home.
11 Nov 2007, 16:23 pm
#261 – I agree – the future is looking pretty rosy for us (internal problems aside)
Gold and Venter were very successful at London Irish. Gold did damn well the latter half of the Currie Cup season.
I am damn positive and can’t wait for Feb.
11 Nov 2007, 16:25 pm
Ruck/Tassies
Nice to see such optimism among the WP faithfull. Anyone care to give me your best starting 15 line-up come Feb 16th?
11 Nov 2007, 16:29 pm
Or I could give it a go:
Let’s see now,
Jantjies
Joe Pietersen
Nakalikalikalikalivuki
Corne Uys
?
Tony Brown
Bolla (hehehe)
Diack
Luke
Whats that guy’s name…Melck
OK no Andries Bekker so, uh, Skeate?
Quinton Davidz maybe in for a comeback
Eddia Andrews
Schalk Brits
Brock Harris (is that his name)
How was that?
11 Nov 2007, 16:30 pm
Tacticus
‘n span met Bolla en Ricky sal tot teen die NZ Krieketspan verloor.
Ruck
SAPS HK, EK HOOP JY WEET WAAR DIT IS!
11 Nov 2007, 16:33 pm
264 thats a kak span and you all know it, now i wonder does Rassie have any alternatives up his sleeve, oh yes Whylie Human the ex EP, Cheetah, Lions, BB, Valke finish and klaar winger.
11 Nov 2007, 16:33 pm
Bly om te sien Steady Eddie is in die span.
RUCK
Hoe gaan Bolla op die veld aan?
In coloured taal soos ek op Saldanha geleer was, soes ‘n skollie.
11 Nov 2007, 16:33 pm
Tacitus… hoegaadit? Ek sien jy koer weer lekker die moere hier?
Wat weet jy van daai Jan vd Merwe outjie… dis nou behalwe dat hy kan HOL en dit wat ons in die koerante gelees het?
Dink jy hy het “iets”?
11 Nov 2007, 16:36 pm
Schalk Burger, Jean de Villiers not feature in your team?? Sireli Naqualavuki is Joe Rockokoko in Blue friend. Peter Grant, Jake Boer, Adrian Fondse, Mujati, Shimange(Ricki Januarie, Conrad Hoffman – scrumhalves) Francois Louw, Pieter Myburgh, Justin Melck and whomever else is BEING SIGNED as we speak……Betya your stomach is still fluttering at that thought hey???
Our tight five are still not up to Bulls standards, But our loosies will smoke a few our competitors – EVEN IF THEY’RE GOING BACKWARDS..
Do not even joke about the Stormers potential backline mate……..Even YOU should see the promise there.
11 Nov 2007, 16:36 pm
Don’t forget that Watson’s form this year was not half as good as it was last year when there perhaps some justification for his inclusion (on merit?) in the Bok side. This year, though, he really has gone to the back of a very long queque. I wonder whether the realisation of that little fact drove his old man to make such a ridiculous offer (if what was reported is fact)?
Re Jake’s version – I would have thought somewhere that the confidentiality factor of Lawyer/Client should work at least to some degree in vice-versa fashion. This is not the first time that Jake has totally ignored usual business courtesies. (Although, I suppose, in this day and age do they still exist?)
11 Nov 2007, 16:36 pm
en verder meer
Ons is nou in ‘n democracy, vryheid van spraak en al daai lekker dinge, behalwe as jy ‘n ANC-raadslid innie Kaap is, dis hoekom jy heeldag op Keo is!
11 Nov 2007, 16:37 pm
ruck, Pta is by all accounts more racist that most other major metros in SA. You only have to attend a game at Loftus to experience that. I don’t know about segregated bars at Loftus but if it were true (1) it would be in character and (2) yes it sucks as you put it. Loftus is not one of the more pleasant places to witness a great event, if you are not a die-hard BB supporter. I can attest to that first hand. Booing at Newlands is unacceptable but at least you exit with limbs intact most times.
11 Nov 2007, 16:39 pm
Kry spoed in die agterlyn dis eintlik die doel van die game om driee te druk op vaart. As die van der Merwe jongetjie dit het dan gebruik sy talent en hou vas om dit te veroorsaak tot by sukses.
11 Nov 2007, 16:40 pm
#265 – I should have picked up on the SAP FORCE mentality…… I have many good friends in the service down here and UP there. I have actually been inside HO Pretoria, believe it or not.
And, I have attended more than a few Police functions in my time.
In wat se afdeling sit jy ou maat?? Pensione, Beserings Aan Diens, Logistiek – sorry, dis in Silverton, Finansies????
11 Nov 2007, 16:43 pm
OK, let me try again:
Jantjies
Joe Pietersen
Nakalikalikalikalivuki
Corne Uys
Jean de Villiers
Tony Brown
Ricky January
Diack
Luke
Burger
Skeate
Fondse (Wat nie eers die Bulle se span kon haal nie)
Eddie Andrews
Splinter’s Shimange
Brock?
Not much better, in my opinion, but let’s hope for Province’s sake that it is the real deal.
11 Nov 2007, 16:43 pm
Ruck
Amor is een van die heel beste sangers in SA. Punt
Onthou jy die Kaapse Sanger Karin Kortje, die een wie se boyfriend iemand doodgemaak het.
Jaaaaa, waarheen is die Kaap oppad?
11 Nov 2007, 16:44 pm
Jy laat my worrie
Ek was by Pensioene……..
11 Nov 2007, 16:44 pm
Oh gawd, I see myself falling into the same trap every year of believing “Hang on, guys, the Stormers actually CAN do it this year!”, and this time seems to be no different.
Rassie has gone a bit power-mad since moving to WP…we have the talent here, no need to go head-hunting larkham & brown and bringing in washed-up has-beens like wylie human and gcocani bobo.
It could all go horribly, horribly wrong.
Again.
11 Nov 2007, 16:45 pm
This Jan vd Merwe is quick enough to make Habana look slow.
And at least he played first team rugby at high school, before focusing on athletics.
And if he is good enough to make the Bok 7′s team in only a few games, then let’s hope he can make it to the Bulls super 14 squad. I hear he is 1.90m tall.
But to be honest, I only know what I have read, so let’s not get our hopes up anytime soon. Luckily he is only 23 years old, so plenty of time to develop him.
11 Nov 2007, 16:46 pm
271
please explain
what has an ANC-raadslid got to do with being on Keo all day? I’m doff man. Don’t see no ANC around here chap. So help needed.
11 Nov 2007, 16:47 pm
Always two sides of the story I say. But why are we so eager to believe White and rubbish black, I mean, Mike Stofile. “Black on White”: makes for a nice title by the so-called, ‘Swart Gevaar’!
11 Nov 2007, 16:51 pm
Durban Poison
If you had a choice between believing Jake White’s version or Mike Sofile’s, who would you back?
11 Nov 2007, 16:51 pm
I’m a firm believer in developing a speedy backline, with the youthful exuberance thrown in as an additional motivation, if this van der Merwe kid has got half a rugby brain then I look forward to seeing him perform and hopefully partner the likes of Steyn, Pienaar, Habana, Fourie in an exciting backline similar to what we remember in the days of N.Botha, M.du Plessis, D.Gerber, C.du Plessis, J, Reinach, J.Heunis.
11 Nov 2007, 16:51 pm
#276 – BWAAAAAAAA, I’m sure the Parlotones would have something to say about that – or STEVE (hahah) for that matter.
Ek kan heeldag vir julle irriteer op Keo, want ek werk van die huis af, en soos vandag, het ek ‘n presentation wat ek klaar maak – so terwyl ek werk (a foreign concept I’m sure to one serving at SAPS HEAD OFFICE, when you should be on the frontline..)I am able to voice my opinion the entire day within a free society, as you so eloquently put it. I am able to multi task – another foreign concept I’m sure….
Just help me out here though, if Bolla (in your humble opinion)carries on like gangsta on the field – how would you describe JP Nel??? A part-time player (considering he spends so much of his actual game time in the bin??) or something else??
11 Nov 2007, 16:54 pm
Jacque Fourie is beginning to look a tad out of place in the Bok backline tbh.
11 Nov 2007, 16:55 pm
#277 – LOL. Now you can rate my profiling skills – Pretty good for a Cape Town psychologist, to profile you SPOT ON – down to the division I imagined you working in….C’mon, credit where its due Tshwaneerder.
11 Nov 2007, 16:56 pm
272# Tassies
Not so.
Go to Loftus, and check it out.
It is the place where Habana is worshipped.
I get sworn at, nartjies thrown at me and all, because I am wearing a WP hat.
My black colleagues laugh at me, they pass unscathed while I have to duck and dive.
There is no racism at Loftus, only provincialism.
Take this from a WP supporter carrying the scars as proof…
11 Nov 2007, 16:56 pm
Was it G.Wright or D.Serfontein as scrummie in that team, and was it G.Pienaar or J.Heunis at full back?
11 Nov 2007, 16:57 pm
tshwaneerder #277, nou is ek oortuig jy gebruik van die Kaap se beste tik (ek haal iemand aan, Ruck?). Amor sing?
11 Nov 2007, 16:57 pm
WP front row needs some serious work. Brock is not the man. The other two have tried their best, failed and should rather watch from the stands like me. There are some young laaijies/Flippie v d Merwe lookalikes down here who, with a little bit of chisseling in the right places, would do the job against all comers. Last year’s Paul Roos Gym front row would be a good start. Looseheadtjie weighed in at a measly 152kg. And his replacement was only 136kg. Tighthead was a reed-thin 128kg as I recall. Now trim 15-odd-kg off the oxen and now you have a front row Hempies would be proud of.
11 Nov 2007, 16:59 pm
skopskiet
Divan of course!!
11 Nov 2007, 16:59 pm
Pietman, goeiemiddag.
11 Nov 2007, 17:00 pm
Tassies
That Hamman vetgat voorry fom Paul Roos is no more.
Koster took him out in the Bishops/PR game.
11 Nov 2007, 17:01 pm
#288 – Divan, my orthopaedic surgeon, Serfontein, I’m certain. I watched this team as a tiny tot with my father.
11 Nov 2007, 17:01 pm
So Pietman is that not true about segregated bars at Loftus ? Or at least when you were there.
11 Nov 2007, 17:02 pm
282 Pietman to be honest I don’t believe half of what I hear coming from your holier than thou Mr. Whites mouth or pen, I would quite frankly take every syllable he utters with one huge dose of salt.
As far as Stofile goes I don’t have all that much information wherewith to judge him on, only from what the anti government anti PC and anti black bloggers on here stream forth ad infinitum day in and day out, so in his case I reserve judgment till I know better.
11 Nov 2007, 17:02 pm
Boerboel
Goeie middag Kalahari-klong.
Wat maak jy, werk jy of studeer jy?
Jy moet nou n slag ophou leer man, jy raak te slim!
11 Nov 2007, 17:02 pm
#295 – It was in a news article published on Friday.
11 Nov 2007, 17:04 pm
nice to hear Pietman.
Haven’t been for a few years.
I’m a little ex-scrummie and when I wore a WP scarf there once, Flippie’s cousin thought I was a picture frame on the Helenic Hotel Bar’s wall. He didn’t clobber me because I wouldn’t be around today if he had. He weighed in at around 150k’s and me about Peter Kirsten’s size. His imitation leather jacket and Klippies and coke did the rest. We do not exchange cards any more.
11 Nov 2007, 17:04 pm
#297- No such thing as being 2 clever, 2 learned, 2 thin or 2 rich…….LOL.
11 Nov 2007, 17:05 pm
C’mon, credit where its due Tshwaneerder.
Comment by ruck : November 11, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
Goed so Dr/Prof/Me/Mev.
11 Nov 2007, 17:05 pm
Quite a backline that was, probably the ultimate backline of all time. D.Serfontein through to (was it Heunis or Pienaar, you didn’t say?)
11 Nov 2007, 17:06 pm
296# Outwide
WTF?
Het jy lus vir nonsens praat, of wat.
Do you think you would be able to get a licensed bar at an international sport stadium if it was segregated?
Think for yourself man, don’t ask me.
This is Pretoria you are talking about, not Harare.
11 Nov 2007, 17:06 pm
OutWide, the article on IOL did not mention segregated bars per se, but the poor black was kicked while whites were served after he left. Make your own conclusions.
11 Nov 2007, 17:09 pm
skopskiet
You are right.
In ’85 against the Cavaliers, it was Heunis and Wright.
Earlier, in ’81, it was Divan and Gysie (and Willie and Ian Robertson at center, not Michael and Danie).
11 Nov 2007, 17:09 pm
Pietman, ek chill soos my dogter sê, het nie ‘n clue wat die beteken mnie, maar dit klink lekker na die wyn.
Ruck, hel ek was 3 ure weg na die Somerset Mall om inkopies te gaan doen en lekker te eet en jy gaan nog steeds hier aan. Jy het stamina.
11 Nov 2007, 17:10 pm
305# Boerboel
What is this about?
I haven’t seen any news on IOL about that lately.
Was it at Loftus?
11 Nov 2007, 17:11 pm
Pietman, eintlik wag ek vir die forex mark in New York om oop te maak. Die USD/EUR gaan soos ‘n yo-yo te kere so ek maak bietjie geld.
11 Nov 2007, 17:12 pm
Pietman,
I have never been to Loftus. But thanks for confirming that because I didn’t think it would be legal. But you are right we are talking about Pretoria !!
11 Nov 2007, 17:12 pm
Ja Pietman, na ‘n sokker game. Maar onthou, dit is ‘n koerantberig.
11 Nov 2007, 17:12 pm
ja Pietman. were you there?
Watched that game.
Hamman is no shrimp. That Bishops scrum nearly made 50mph backwards but still won the game. Amazingly effective gameplan that saturday morning. Move the ball wide left. Wait for the forwards to arrive. Move same right. Repeat. And repeat again. Can’t remember how long Hamman lasted but it wasn’t long. Then his buddy got the same treatment. That’s not to say PRG were one dimensional but they were out-manoevered that day. Only loss of the season and they finsihed No1 in the land. But that game was something else. Koster was the young man who led from the front. And don’t be cynical Skop. We are going to see more of him in future. I promise you. Stop whale watching and come to the suburbs and watch the young talent to bring tears to them eyes.
11 Nov 2007, 17:13 pm
So when did they drop Divan for Wright, and did Danie only come to prominence mid eighties and not before 85?
Divan is Naas’s contemporary if I am correct and Michael, Danie, Carel were a few years younger I presume.
11 Nov 2007, 17:14 pm
Pietman gaan na iol en soek die frase “”A country united, but where to celebrate”"
11 Nov 2007, 17:16 pm
The thing that really gets to me is that SA rugby just cannot get rid of the name Andre Markgraaff.
What is it with this guy?
Whenever there is a big controversy in SA rugby his name pops up.
Then you ask yourself: what does Markgraaff have in common with Mike Stofile? Can someone please explain this to me.
11 Nov 2007, 17:17 pm
Outwide/Tassies
From what Boerboel says here, there appears to have been some incident involving a black guy getting thrown out of a bar.
Was that at Loftus/
I don’t know about particular incidents, I can only talk about my personal experiences at Loftus.
There are plenty of students pubs around there, especially at Hatfield, wtf goes down there I wouldn’t know.
I haven’t been there in a while.
But if something like that did occur, it was probably at some student joint in Hatfield.
Not a nice place, Hatfield at night.
11 Nov 2007, 17:20 pm
#311 – I was with my grandfather and uncle at that game 2. So we were ALL there?? Hell.
Tassies, these Muggles up north keep having a go at me and others like Bagel and Pietman who rave about young Nicholas. I am chuffed you say “I promise you” – exactly what I feel about the kid.
End of.
Boerboel – I’ve actually been finishing a huge presentation I’ve gotta give in Jhb next week – so I’ve got 3 compers running, and I’m working/moaning/fighting/writing/ simultaneously.
Have to finish before 7 – ‘cos then Jake is on Carte Blanche…….Book publicity tour starts…
11 Nov 2007, 17:21 pm
15.) Janjes
14.) Chavanga
13.) Titus
12.) Grant
11.) Fiji
10.) Brown
9.) Januarie
8.) Watson/Diack
7.) Louw
6.) Burger
5.) Skeate
4.) Bekker
3.) Mujati
2.) Britz
1.) Fairrera
That is the WP team Tacticus you doos
11 Nov 2007, 17:23 pm
Outwide
My apologies.
Boerboel just confirmed that something like a ‘racist brawl’ was reported in a Pta pub.
It wasn’t at the rugby, apparently some soccer post-match thing.
But in Hatfield anything is possible, it is a student’ hang-out’ and people get drunk and senseless.
11 Nov 2007, 17:24 pm
#315 – Nah, its not a pleasant place. If 4 Affies boys decide you don’t belong there, they beat you to death…..then claim that you were actually a housebreaker……
Pietman, this is the article that caused all the trouble on Friday – Poor Katman mentioned it after reading it – then all hell broke loose. Katman, correctly got pissed off when some bloggers defended the actions of the “pub” owner, saying said owner should be allowed to serve whomever he wants…….Thats why Katman got pissed off – I was also mightily pissed…..
11 Nov 2007, 17:24 pm
Pietman ek het die artikel vir jou ge-mail
11 Nov 2007, 17:26 pm
wasn’t Carel around at that time too Skop.
Hell those were mighty fine Bok sides in those day. I was a lightie and can almost remember some of the details. TV was still relatively new at that stage so one had to be pretty mobile(and wealthy) to watch most of the games back then. Remember air travel was owned by SAA and flights weren’t cheap.
11 Nov 2007, 17:26 pm
Ruck, I read that thread and I think old Katman was lambasted wrongly. I actually like Katman’s posts most of the time.
11 Nov 2007, 17:29 pm
During the past few weeks everyone has been talking about how winning the Rugby World Cup united this country again and how we must all use this victory to entrench our democracy and all those rosy things.
Granted, the Springboks win did unite us even if it was for one night.
But I was cruelly brought down to earth last weekend and reminded that as much as the rugby victory did change attitudes, it didn’t change those who don’t want to change. On Sunday, I went to Loftus Versfeld to watch the PSL match between Mamelodi Sundowns and Orlando Pirates.
What a game that was and a happy and thirsty me along with two mates took a few steps within the Loftus precinct to a fairly new establishment. It was somewhat empty with the odd sprinkling of Sundowns fans.
After our first round of drinks our waiter walked over and told us that they were closing and we should order our last round if we wished. I found that to be weird for any establishment within a sport stadium especially after such a big game and with many supporters probably wanting to drown their sorrows or celebrate their respective team’s win or loss.
As we were leaving a group of about eight people of a lighter tan or pigmentation walked in and they were served.
A few minutes later another couple walked in and they were also served and both parties seemed to entrench themselves in their seats.
To me, it’s those same people who have tended to rejoice and make a huge noise about our sports minister this week announcing a scrapping of quotas from all national teams. What incenses me is that the same people seem to think it’s a victory for those stuck in the past.
In simple terms, the minister scrapped quotas because, it is in the best interest of sport in this country that our national teams contain our best players when representing us. Transformation must start from the bottom up. Believe me, the government is in no way intending to get soft on transformation.
There are some that are embracing the change going on in this country and there are some that don’t want it at all. For those that choose not to accept what happened in 1994, no matter how hard you try to hide your true feelings they are evident in the subtle things you do.
Scrap quotas, yes, I agree.
At least we will now see where certain people stand. For those that celebrated for their own selfish reasons it won’t take long before they are exposed just as the backward attitude of the individuals who run that new, beautifully decorated establishment near Loftus.
This is the article.
11 Nov 2007, 17:31 pm
Pietman, ek sien in die Times dat hier ‘n haaiaanval in die Strand was. Hel, nou gaan ek eers bietjie uit die see uitbly. Ek is banger vir ‘n haai in Valsbaai as ‘n blou bul op Roftus.
11 Nov 2007, 17:32 pm
ruck/Boerboel
Thanks.
I am busy checking IOL, still can’t find anything.
I will check my mail now and get back to you.
Katman?
That’s another story for some other time.
That was about something else.
11 Nov 2007, 17:32 pm
Would love to know why many of the players don’t enjoy playing at loftus when playing for the Boks.
Loftus loves the Boks.
Sure,monty got booed in ’99….but he was completely and utterly pants back then.
Newlands boo’s their side weekly,the Cats and sharks have flat-track supporters who only tend to show up once their sides start winning a few games. The only seemingly “angels” are the cheetahs who’ve always been good.
As for for Jake accomodating the Bulls union. He was dumb. Every supporter rekons the player from their union is the better option. The only difference is…the bulls supporters and union where right, the alarm bells should have been ringing as far back as Currie Cup 2004 where a Springbok strengh WP side could only manage a 36-36 draw with a then….blatant Bulls B side. The honeymoon was well and truely over 5 months later…75-14. I still maintain that there is no way in hell Julies could have been selected ahead of Ettienne Botha at that time,in that form. The explanation at the time was that Botha’s defence was not good enough. Because Julies’ was?
There are numerous examples…Jake made life difficult for himself many times.
Remember when he replaced Matfield with Gerrie Britz? Something to do with attitude problems!
Another mediocre WP player for a far better Bulls player?
Jake did more than enough of his own antagonizing with the countries pre-eminent union.
PS….Keo also gave Jake White a vote of no-confidence in 2006.
11 Nov 2007, 17:32 pm
Cheers Boerboel,
I have found the article.
No worries Pietman.
11 Nov 2007, 17:34 pm
speaking of the old days, I remember being tackled by a certain Rob Louw, at school. Now that wasn’t fun. He was also quite good.
11 Nov 2007, 17:36 pm
Tacitus, if you are still around, this is specially for you. I have seen quite a few incidents at JHB International where passengers were downright rude with personnel at check-in counters. The majority wore blue bull jerseys and unfortunately were afrikaans speaking. Granted, I also saw rude english speaking people, but the blou bulle stood out, especially there pot bellies. Soos Zirk Berh sing, hier kom ‘n boeppens met ‘n mens aan.
11 Nov 2007, 17:39 pm
Boerboel
Ok, got it.
Not a Loftus pub, probably that student pub in Eastwood Str.,an old house 100 meters north of the stadium, towards the Union Buildings, the one with the flags, Vierkleur and those, flying outside the gate.
No decent person would enter there, regardless of colour.
I only know it from a distance, I used to park up the street and walk passed it on my way to the games.
11 Nov 2007, 17:42 pm
***** alive guys. You do go on about Jake White and his failings. The mans a human for gods sake. Made plenty mistakes. Will make plenty more. Promise you. Why hang the guy out to dry because he didn’t select a certain player back when, because of…
He was operating under extrodinary pressure. You try being Springbok coach. It is probably not an exageration to say that it is the most difficult job in the world. He’d probably cruise being the US president right now. HE WON THE WC. I’d say: “thanks Jake. All your sins are forgiven”. And move on. Next man!!
11 Nov 2007, 17:42 pm
Luke Watson deserves a break…leave him alone and let him play rugby.
11 Nov 2007, 17:45 pm
gotta go and watch a whale at Kalk Bay.
sien jul more skatte
11 Nov 2007, 17:49 pm
Tacitus/Skopskiet et al
How the hell can you berate White based on n extremely short precis written by Keo?
As long as White tell his story and tells thr truth who cares.
You don’t even know what he has written and in what context and you already climb into him.
Use your brains, read the book and then by all means comment.
Or is your attention span 1 minute?
This is nothing to do with tjhe Bulls. I am amazed that every Bok thread gets turned into a Bulls thread. Grow up boys!
11 Nov 2007, 17:49 pm
Boerboel/Tact
No, Katnman and I was clashing about Pierre Spies and those Afrikaans players referring to people as ‘oom’ and ‘tannie’.
And about Jaco’s freedom of his religious expression( I don’t agree with Jaco’s manner as well, incidently).
And then, what really got me going, when calling this site ‘a nest of right wingers’.
I am not a right winger, nor a racist, just for the record.
I like Katman’s comments, but I am still pissed off at him slagging Afrikaans as a language and his ‘laager mentality’ comments.
11 Nov 2007, 17:51 pm
Hallo hallo Pietman , Boerboel en die res,
Aai julle kan my Loftus broeders maar nie vat nie, maar hel man die plek moet nie aangenaam wees vir julle en ander besoekende spanne nie, ons wil he julle moet dit haat. Natuurlik vir die regte redes , maar na die game kuier goeie rugby mense mos maar lekker saam.
Julle moan nou oor Percy gebooo is toentertyd , hy was toe maar treurig. Sederdien het hy baie hard aan sy game gewerk en in die WB finaal dink ek het hy die top punt van sy loopbaan bereik, ek het selfs gewonder of hy nie gerook was die dag nie, so vreesloos het ek hom nog nooit gesien nie. A great last hoeraah.
11 Nov 2007, 17:56 pm
Hi superBul
Jy moet nou net nie al die aantuigings hier teen my en Pietman gooi nie!
Ek het vir jou ‘n mail gestuur oor my besoek aan Pelgrimsrus se wêreld verlede week. Het jy dit gekry? Mooi wêreld daar, ek wil weer gaan kuier.
11 Nov 2007, 17:58 pm
superBul
Ek is besig om Loftus te verdedig, kan jy glo!
En ek en Willie het n jaar terug al gese Percy en Bobby gaan die Bokke die WB help wen toe almal so gekla het omdat Percy kwansuis swak is onder die hoogskoppe en vir Roets aangepraat het.
OK, ek en Willie was nie heeltemal in die kol met Bobby nie, maar met Percy het ek nog al die pad bygestaan.
11 Nov 2007, 18:16 pm
Pietman nee wat ek het nie aantyging teen julle bedoel nie , maar die algemene gevoel is maar om die Bulle op te vryf , en dit werk meestal ons reageer daarop.
Alles lyk ook maar nie so lekker deesdae daar op Bloem nie, die goeie tye begin hulle ook nou arrogant maak. Wonder of hulle ook enemy nr 1 gaan word.
Ek het nie jou mail gekry nie jammer. Die veld het nou pragtig geword, ons het goeie reen gehad die laaste week, kleinerig buie , so 19 , 14, 11, 13mm maar die veld het nou mooi gebind so harde reen sal nie baie spoelskade maak nie.
11 Nov 2007, 18:19 pm
For all those A-holes who are now “against” Jake – blow me.
Jake IS, WAS and EVER WILL be the best coach this country has ever had. PERIOD.
ANY ONE of us would have walked if we found ourselves under the circumstances he was under. Don’t judge until you’ve walked a few meters in his shoes, let alone a mile.
Get real!
Bokke Onverskroke!
Jake = Coach of the year (TWICE)
11 Nov 2007, 18:21 pm
340 – if we had lost to England this blog would have been rife with calls on how SHI*T Jake is. He won the World Cup with the Best Team in the World…let him be…
Also, The Boks are PURE PEDIGREES, not like MOST of the other Rugby playing nations that bought players from other countries…
Jake rules! Kla gepraat!
11 Nov 2007, 18:21 pm
On your marks…
11 Nov 2007, 18:22 pm
get set…
11 Nov 2007, 18:22 pm
BANG !
11 Nov 2007, 18:23 pm
BokBoi
I went and checked out that Bokke Onverskrokke song on Youtube, based on some bloggers here’s recomendations (Can’t remember if it was you).
And my opinion: What a **** song. Or let me rephrase: After all the hype, what an ordinary song, suitable for a drunken, pubnight, but nothing more.
Its just that bunch of guys from the Sasol add “Ja Boet”.
Nothing special and frankly, I’m not even tempted to go and listen to it a second time.
Jeez, the kind of stuff that lonely, homesick expats get excited about.
11 Nov 2007, 18:26 pm
345 – each to his own. I loved it…made me very home sick.
11 Nov 2007, 18:27 pm
345 – and I’m far from lonely…my whole family is here, have been for over 20 years!
11 Nov 2007, 18:29 pm
Oh there are songs that would have made me homesick as well, believe me. But not that one.
It’s kind of like a Leon Schuster song – silly, yet entertaining.
11 Nov 2007, 18:31 pm
What got me most about that song was seeing ordinary people, going to watch games, celebrating together and then of course the use of kids – very smart.
11 Nov 2007, 18:42 pm
I just watched is again and you’re definitely out to lucnh chump…that song has the BOKS all over it!
Anyway, like I said – each to his own!
Out!
11 Nov 2007, 18:43 pm
Jeez. Check this article out. Seems like the Watsons really are a bunch of dirty tricksters:
Luke Watson will remain a Springbok outcast, despite earning his first Test cap earlier this year. South African coach Jake White has confirmed reports, which surfaced at the time, that Watson was never wanted and accepted by the Bok players.
Hoskins has steadfastly defended the decision, despite claims that it was Watson’s political connections – through his father anti-apartheid activist Cheeky Watson’s association with leading political figures and SARU officials – that earned him his Springbok selection.
“I stand by his [Watson's] inclusion in the [Springbok] squad,” Hoskins said at the weekend.
While Watson may have the backing SA rugby bosses, White has confirmed reports that Watson was never initiated as a Bok player – a traditional team ceremony – because of the objections to his inclusion from the players’ ranks.
White, in his book, insists that he feels Watson simply was never good enough to be a Springbok and that the Watson family tried to broker a deal with him.
According to White, who will have one last fling as a Bok coach when he takes the South African team on a two-match tour of the United Kingdom later this month, other the players felt they had earned their places on merit in the team and Watson did not.
The players simply “tolerated” Watson in the Bok team for the mid-year Tests against England and Samoa, but he was never accepted as part of the squad.
White also spoke about the misinformation that was spread in the media to raise Watson’s profile, in an attempt to justify the SARU hierarchy’s decision to foist Watson onto the team.
The players became irritated that Watson was receiving so much attention and the fact that SARU/SA Rugby officials interfered in team selections.
According to White all the Super 14 coaches – with the exception of Stormers coach Kobus van der Merwe, who was not contacted – told him that they would not have picked Watson.
“They all said ‘no’ and it confirmed my opinion that he was not good enough to be a Springbok,” White is quoted as saying in his book.
White adds that the players then declined to initiate Watson in the traditional team ceremony and other players asked not to be considered for the Test against Samoa because they did not want to be associated with a team that included Watson.
After the Samoan Test, Watson and centre Waylon Murray had their capping ceremonies.
Murray had 16 people, all friends and family, present.
Watson was capped on his own. His father sat outside, having coffee with SA Rugby deputy president Mike Stofile.
The Bok coach also reveals that in a clandestine meeting he was offered a deal by the Watson family, which would have saved White’s career, if Luke Watson was named in the World Cup squad.
According to Chapter 37 Brian Bierbuyck, who was also the Watson family’s lawyer, was asked to negotiate with White.
White speaks of a document with “nine demands” – which included that Watson goes to the World Cup – was put to him. In return, the Watsons would have ensured that he is not axed as Bok coach and would continue beyond 2007.
White said he was flabbergasted by these developments.
“Brian mentioned something about the power to know what tomorrow’s news will be. He said there would be a report in the media about a so-called third force in South African rugby and that I [White] will be connected to this.”
The Star newspaper on May 15, did in fact publish a report in which Watson’s father, Cheeky Watson, claimed a sinister ‘third force’ was ruling SA rugby and that his son is paying the price for his political background.
“I realised that Luke – or his family – did indeed have extraordinary political connections and it appeared that they had the support of powerful people in government and in rugby.”
White, in his book, says: “Articles have been written about my supposed feud with his father.
“I’ve met Cheeky once, and until he started criticising me in the press, I had absolutely nothing against him … My views on the Watson family’s political past are completely ambivalent, as I’ve never been a political person.”
White writes that Watson had every opportunity in the game, unlike his father, “so when I read quotes or heard people saying he’d suffered while growing up, I have to admit, I found that difficult to stomach. As a rugby player, it doesn’t appear as if he was left wanting as a child.”
11 Nov 2007, 18:47 pm
watson’s a poephol…and so is his politically minded family…F**K EM!
11 Nov 2007, 18:53 pm
351.. Can’t see too many Xmas cards being exchanged between the White and Watson families in the future…
I would still like to hear the other side of the story.
11 Nov 2007, 18:56 pm
Joke White, the master of innuendo’s, leaks and martyrdom is at it again.
Why am I not surprised. Bribes by the Watsons to play for his team? Only White will believe that. Why didn’t he leak this saucy bits in the same way that so many other “I-am-a-martyr” pieces were leaked?
He is a psycho case. Telling himself things over and over untill he believes it himself.
Six months ago he didn’t want to be coach. A couple of weeks ago he cried foul play when his bosses did what he wanted. To be fired.
Then his rotten book was already at least 98% completed.
Then he suddenly decided: I want 6 months off.
The latest: I am not interested in the English coaching post. As if England wanted him. Who would in any case appoint a coach with a schysophrenic personality.
Funny. Corne Krige is now also a White praise singer. The same guy who alleged that White drew up the questions for the shortlisting which led to White’s appointment. Who in any case is Krige to have an opinion. After all, he is the worst captain in Springbok history.
Go to hell Jake. Take Krige and Keo with you.
11 Nov 2007, 19:03 pm
Calling the Super 14 coaches for a comment on Luke’s abilities?
Joke, Joke.
11 Nov 2007, 19:03 pm
I sing White’s praise. Done and Done…
Mettie, you seem to be a doos who can’t think for yourself!
11 Nov 2007, 19:13 pm
It also looks as if a number of the Unions didn’t want Jake either.
Why not just say that none of the selectors felt that Luke wasn’t yet up to it? I seem to remember that at the beginning Jake stated that he would advise any fringe player why he wasn’t selected and what improvements he’d have to make. Luke wasn’t exactly a non runner.
11 Nov 2007, 19:14 pm
And that after Luke Watson was selected S14 player of 2006 and narrowly lost to Kabamba as Player’s player of the year.
Joke, you must be jaking (spelling correct). I cannot imagine the S14 coaches turning against the player of the year to the extend that Joke says. And the players: after selecting him as co-player of the year!!!!
Joke, you clown.
11 Nov 2007, 19:15 pm
David – what I can’t understand is why the Watson family went to those lengths to get their son in the team…It’s like going against the grain, it’s like quota’s. Etc etc…My family certainly would never pull strings to get me in, regardless of the circumstances…you end up getting in for the wrong reasons and then you become part of negative press, as is the case now for the poor *******!
11 Nov 2007, 19:18 pm
Mettie – Luke Watson is a ***, Just like you, come to think of it.
11 Nov 2007, 19:24 pm
BokBoi most of what Mettie is saying makes sense. You are calling him a *** just because he goes against what you are preaching so maybe read what he has to say. Jake did say he wanted to quit and when SARU let him go he whined. Why?
11 Nov 2007, 19:32 pm
Bagel, the real question here is whether or not we will win the World cup in 2011 in NZ.
11 Nov 2007, 19:33 pm
Bagel, the real question here is why the World Champ’s team is made up of Bulls and Sharks?
11 Nov 2007, 19:33 pm
Bagel, the real question here is who’ll be next Bok coach?
11 Nov 2007, 19:40 pm
359… BokBoi That is jakes side of the story.
Luke and his family are entitled to give their side.
11 Nov 2007, 19:55 pm
BokBoi, it is not something new for a father to buy or organise his son into a team , i can guaratee you a Kudu or rooibok was offered before in Springbok history, remember the Maties under Dok Craven, sure you will find a favour or 2 somewhere.
Yust watched Jake on Carte Blance, Dereck Watts rightly said he was surprised that Jake even gave the over from Cheeky Watson any thoughts. Make one wonder about the honesty of Jake.
11 Nov 2007, 19:57 pm
over must be offer
11 Nov 2007, 19:59 pm
Bagel, it was required of Jake to apply for his job one day before the World Cup. Hell, I’ve got sympathy for the guy. Imagine, you are preparing for the biggest project in your career and your boss come and say: apply for job. Ridiculous.
11 Nov 2007, 20:00 pm
“As if England wanted him. Who would in any case appoint a coach with a schysophrenic personality.” -Mettie
Lets see, he won the
rugby world cup
tri nations
irb coach of the year 2004
irb coach of the year 2007
team of the year 2004
team of the year 2007
he’s been coaching for 17 years?
won the u21 rugby world cup..
i guess you’re right mettie, why would they want him? Doos.
11 Nov 2007, 20:02 pm
Kayoss, agree
11 Nov 2007, 20:03 pm
Bokboi #359
I agree,. The trouble is we all know how one eyed some parents get about their sons. We see it every day at school matches. I must admit, I didn’t think I’d see it from Cheeky, a man I always admired for his integrity, if Jakes comments are correct. Having said that, I also know of a certain ex Bok who believes that his son was the victim of quota selections. Something very few other people agree with.
I suppose that you just can’t rule out the human factor from any situation.
11 Nov 2007, 20:04 pm
He does have an impressive CV…
11 Nov 2007, 20:06 pm
I just don’t like how he handled Luke now. He is just a kid and Jake has slammed him and screwed his career!
11 Nov 2007, 20:10 pm
I just dont like the attack by Jake on Lukes caracter, this player realy played good rugby in 2006. And that in a strugling WP/Stormers team. Jake was always a guy who said to much.
11 Nov 2007, 20:13 pm
Agreed SuperBul, but… You are a Bul? You think Luke played good rugby? OW! My head…
11 Nov 2007, 20:14 pm
Boerbul
He actually told SARU before the WC that he wasn’t going to reapply.
Bagel
I agree that he treated Luke badly long before his father intervened.
11 Nov 2007, 20:16 pm
After watching Carte Blanche I feel even sorrier for young Luke. Hell, the kid just never stood a chance – what a pity! I too have admired Cheeky Watson for the integrity I thought him to possess – I am bitterly dissapointed (if all the allegations are true….I shall not judge until the full truth has been disclosed from BOTH sides)I am a touch pissed with Jake for saying, “He isn’t a good player – the most overerated player at this level…..” – Jake seems to have forgotten about Barbie, Albert and quite a few others HE has selected. I admire Jake, and he was a great coach, but all is STILL not what it seems.
I mean, Cheeky (fanatical parent and transformation poster child of the 70′s)going to those lengths – its evil, BUT demanding to have contracts renewed and holding “employers” to ransom – seems to be similar evil.
So WHO is evil, who is wrong, who is the victim?? This is SA rugby folk – WE ALL LOSE whichever “side” you choose. In my mind, the big loser, along with the talented Luke Watson himself; is SA rugby – once more……Bah HUmbug!
11 Nov 2007, 20:18 pm
Bagel yes i did feel he played great rugby i even said here on Keo he would be a great buy for the Bulls, But you know HM is a great spotter of talent and he picked my other favourite new recruit,Wickus.
11 Nov 2007, 20:19 pm
Jake really lashed at him on Carte Blanche too saying he is overrated. Talent was never an issue with Watson in my eyes…
11 Nov 2007, 20:19 pm
Ja-nee, Jake didn’t mince his words on Carte Blanche, but then it is what the name of the program implies.
I’ve met Jake at a rugby function of school in Somerset West earlier this year. He had the same attitude then, not afraid to call a spade a spade.
11 Nov 2007, 20:21 pm
YES all, remember when the ENTIRE country from Loftus to Newlands was calling for Luke to be selected……He deserved to be there on merit at that stage – end of story. Jake made some really childish comments about his kids being “fetchers” – when they go and get a beer out of the fridge for him……Even the Kiwis (players, coaches and commentators) could not understand why Luke was never selected. I’l never forget Richie saying that in early 2006, Luke was the best player in SA, and the toughest opponent he had played against…..(during that campaign)
Hell, I am so pissed off with all those that have pissed on Luke’s career right now…..Back to war!
11 Nov 2007, 20:23 pm
Super Wickus isn’t really such a great investment to be honest, had a great season last year but in the future HM should move Kuun back to the flank, that kid is class…
11 Nov 2007, 20:23 pm
I find the point of view of Bulls supporters like Tacitus very interesting. They all asume that any bok coach should ally themselves with the Bulls if he wants to survive.
In the same breath they rant on how any inteference from the left is unacceptable. They wonder why everybody else hates them.
HYPOCRYTES.
11 Nov 2007, 20:24 pm
I just think Jake picked the wrong player to call “He isn’t a good player – the most overerated player at this level…..â€
Opens a can of worms and opens himself if we start scrutinizing his favourite picks.
11 Nov 2007, 20:28 pm
voshd everything you said sounded good except the hate part… I now deem you a moron.
11 Nov 2007, 20:29 pm
Cheers all off to study…
11 Nov 2007, 20:30 pm
Ruck
The “whole country from Newlands to Loftus” never wanted Luke in the team. Maybe the Newlands part, but certainly not much farther than that.
SuperBul
For once I totally agreed with Jake. About Luke being totally overrated. And the other Bok players obviously shared that sentiment.
11 Nov 2007, 20:31 pm
Bagel ,
Wickus is a gem, he is back where he belongs, this is a great buy. If he slagged down at the end of the season , just remember he wasnt in the elite rested group at first, he still had to play himself into contention for the WC squad, so in Jakes own words he was not conditioned is well as the rest of Jakes BOYS. But still he was a great asset to the Boks cause.
11 Nov 2007, 20:32 pm
#382 – Bagel, I believe they’re trying Kuun at flyhalf – he can play anywhere. Only kidding.
Flank IS his position – and they have to let him play there. It’s like Rassie deciding to convert Schalk into a hooker…
11 Nov 2007, 20:33 pm
Or the other Boks don’t like a charismatic English speaking guy whose father fought against what their fathers believed in… Or maybe they just though he was overrated, I mean only Richie McCaw along with the rest of Australasia thought he was class…
11 Nov 2007, 20:35 pm
#387 – No Tacitus, there were calls from far and wide to have Luke included when he was playing such great rugga. Maybe not you – but many Bulls commentators and journalists were definitely on the Pro-Luke wagon at that stage. JJ Harmse, and quite a few others.
11 Nov 2007, 20:40 pm
I would love to see Keo follow up with the S12/14 coaches at the time and find out why they told Jake that Luke was overated.
I’m open to their opinion, I just feel that Jake has gone overboard about ridiculing the kid because of his father.
I also have the suspicion that if Eddie was involved two years ago, he would have included Luke in the mix. Not as 1st choice, but a decided contender.
11 Nov 2007, 20:40 pm
Tac , a lot of players will also write thier autobiographies soon , expect different views the moment they retire expect a lot of revelations to come, it will be stange if 30 or lets say the 72 players under Jake all feel he is the best and agree with him.
Who would you think would like Luke the least?
Other loose forwards?
His biggest gat gabba JS?
11 Nov 2007, 20:44 pm
luke watson, to me, has always played like your typical school first xv hero, a bit on the flank, a bit at scrumhalf, sometimes flyhalf – always where he is likely to be noticed and applauded.
unfortunately, first class rugby today requires players to be specialists at their positions. it’s a bit more mature than 17 year-olds playing for the spectators from the girl’s school across the road.
11 Nov 2007, 20:48 pm
#392 – Agree. I am really upset by the manner in which an adult, Jake, “bitched” like a female about a player – as I have said before – I would be pissed off whoever the player was. Its just not cricket. Its nasty!
11 Nov 2007, 20:49 pm
charo realy?
Matfield , Schalk…… never in the backline?
11 Nov 2007, 20:51 pm
there is no doubt that luke watson is a disruptive influence.
his departure from the sharks was welcomed by the squad – there is no doubt about that if you listen to unofficial comments from the players.
it seems that his participation with the stormers has been equally divisive – simply because fester recognised his ball playing abilities only.
to those in the anti-jw/js brigade – do you seiously think that the boks would have regained their dignity with luke as captain?
11 Nov 2007, 20:51 pm
cant believe i am defending a WP player, must be because Jake is involved.
11 Nov 2007, 20:56 pm
hey Tacitus – you can make fun of the stormers team all you like, but you and i both know rassie has beaten the bulls with fewer resources in the past. are you sure you aren’t just a little bit worried. you should be.
11 Nov 2007, 20:57 pm
Charo – I am a Jake White “fan” and have always applauded John Smit’s leadership…..Be honest Charo, at some stage you must have questioned if John Smit was the best hooker in the country when his form was “wayward” at times. I never felt Jake should drop him though – his leadership was integral to Bok success.
I would never make Luke a Bok captain or any other, which is why I would be relieved if Schalk did take over down here. (I am sure this would be better for Luke 2) BUT: I rate Luke as a player, always have – always will. He has been roughshodded, and thats a pity – as a player, not a captain.
11 Nov 2007, 20:57 pm
charo
Nobody here has suggested that Luke be captain or that criticism of Jake is part of an anti JW/JS axis. In fact, the question of whether he is a disruptive influence has also not been raised. What is being discussed is Jake’s attitude, as an adult and ex school master, concerning his public statements about a 22 year old rugby player.
11 Nov 2007, 20:58 pm
hey skopskiet – what is your relationship to the watson family? you hate jake and love luke. and you are incredibly vocal and self appreciative. are you trying to become an honarary watson?
11 Nov 2007, 20:59 pm
All the concerns raised here about Luke are BS.
Jake is the coach and he didn’t choose him…what’s the big deal – we won the worldcup with arguably WAAAAYYY BETTER players than Watson…
As a coach you’ll NEVER please everyone, so end this ***** now.
11 Nov 2007, 20:59 pm
It is quite simple if he made the Bok team on merit and played with the same squad JS had in the final he would have , in fact anybody could have.
The players in the final was by far the most representative team of the Best in the world, in fact i would at least played 7 players in a world team, no other country had that talent pool.
My 7 , Percy, Habanna, FdP, Schalk , Juan, Victor and Bakkies. O no what about OS.
11 Nov 2007, 20:59 pm
lol @ 404
11 Nov 2007, 21:01 pm
superBul, no worries, you may defend a WP player. I myself is a staunch “defender” of Wickus van Heerden
11 Nov 2007, 21:06 pm
jake white to me has never been a great coach – he is more of a manager in the soccer sense.
what i do admire about jake though is his commitment to the bok tradition, being careful about cheapening the value of the jersey, being true to his core players and sticking with a captain when his form waned.
ruck – i too was doubtful about jake and john smit when js went off the boil but all kudos to jake for keeping the faith and the vision.
skoppie – jake achieved his target in life – have you?
11 Nov 2007, 21:13 pm
I think Jake right now is coming to terms with the fact that the job that he cherished so dearly has been taken away from him.
Constructive dismissal = employer making it intolerable for employee to continue. The initiative comes from the employer.
Jake is tired. He is emotionally drained and angry. It will take some time for him to detox. For a sensitive, perceptive and generally good bloke it is always harder.
The higher the EQ the longer it takes.
But I will not change my stance on Jake. He has made mistakes in selections, but given the environment he had to work in nobody will get it right. Heyneke take note. We remain in the bush. First an Afrikaner ethnic bush now an African ethnic bush.
What matters most is that he won the RWC and by doing so carved a place out for him in history.
Yeah, the comments on Luke are wrong and out-of- character for Jake.
We will see a different man in 6 months and he is now the benchmark for SA coaches.
11 Nov 2007, 21:23 pm
To me the most overrated player is:
Ashwin Willemse
AND JAKE writes in his book he’ll play with 15 Ashwin Willemses.
11 Nov 2007, 21:30 pm
#410 – he is now the benchmark – you say.
You’re right, at least I think so…no other coach will (sadly) achieve what he has. NEVER AGAIN will this be repeated, all the wins and more importantly the duration of the tenure. NEVER AGAIN…
To get back to my opening line that I quoted from you…VERY ambiguous and ironic…
He IS THE BENCHMARK, yet we don’t have much good to say about him…Let’s just wait until the new drol of a coach is appointed – I think we’ll then appreciate what Jake did…right now he’s the whipping boy which is retarded…the mane HAS achieved!
Mark my words on this DATE – NO COACH WILL EVER ACHIEVE AGAIN IN SA…NEVER AGAIN! IN FACT, NO COACH WILL EVER COME CLOSE. MARK MY WORDS!
11 Nov 2007, 21:30 pm
tshwaneerder
Ashwin is not overated, just cursed by ongoing injuries.
11 Nov 2007, 21:33 pm
Bokboi
Your words are noted, now please stop shouting at us!
11 Nov 2007, 21:33 pm
BokBoi
I read the very same story in Rapport.
Back in 1995……………………..
11 Nov 2007, 21:34 pm
sorry for shouting…definitely not intentional, just passionate! sorry!
11 Nov 2007, 21:34 pm
BokBoi
I read the very same story in Rapport.
Back in 1999……………………..
11 Nov 2007, 21:35 pm
BokBoi
I read the very same story in Rapport.
Back in 2003……………………..
11 Nov 2007, 21:36 pm
BokBoi
I read the very same story in Rapport.
Early in 2007……………………..
11 Nov 2007, 21:37 pm
417 – what is it exactly that you think the coach of 1999 achieved? ZERO.
418 – what is it exactly that you think the coach of 2003 achieved? ZERO.
11 Nov 2007, 21:37 pm
420 – just give the new coach 6 months to get to the Tri-Nations where he’ll be dictated to from the sidelines…he’ll be gone before the competition is over.
11 Nov 2007, 21:37 pm
BokBoi
I will (if i’m alive) read the very same story in Rapport.
After the 2011 RWC……………………..
11 Nov 2007, 21:40 pm
BokBoi
This will continue and continue and continue and continue and continue and continue and continue and continue, until Markies is our coach again.
11 Nov 2007, 21:41 pm
Correct me if I’m wrong, Jake is the only coach of the modern era that has seen out his tenure…meaning he’s leaving on his own free will…
11 Nov 2007, 21:41 pm
who’s markies? Markgraaf? You’ve got to be joking dude…
11 Nov 2007, 21:44 pm
BokBoi
Take it easy mate! You were probably referring to my entry at # 408. In all fairness, some of Jake’s harshest critics have turned around and apologised on this very site.
But you know how it is. Sometimes a guy just doesn’t do it for you.
Those who think that Heyneke and Pieter deV are so much better will soon see what Jake had to contend with. I doubt that there will be apologies coming forward. The defensive types dont apologise, they just get aggressive.
But we know better. Met geweld kan jy jou vinger in jou hol afbreek…
I agree with you 100% about Jake’s achievements and my views are well documented on this site.
David
Ashwin was a huge disappointment at RWC; all those injuries dealt him a severe blow. Most NB of all his confidence was nowhere. He was a shadow of the man of 2003 or was he merely a stand-out in an otherwise k*k team?
I’ve asked another question earlier:
Why is it that when controversy is at its highest in SA rugby that the name Andre Markgraaff pops up?
11 Nov 2007, 21:44 pm
tshwaneerder,
you are a disillusioned little puppy!
markgraaf is an idiot – a dinosaur – he doesn’t belong in modern rugby, never mind democratic sa.
11 Nov 2007, 21:46 pm
Stofile wants Markies back.
11 Nov 2007, 21:47 pm
Its a watershed, the pity is this coach did achieve great heights in spite of his bigoted and personal likes and dislikes, his inability to be magnanimous and inclusive showed up his petty little childish personality, he is hardly more mature than Luke in fact I would stoop to say the opposite, he is far less mature than Luke and in fact it shows by no international country beating down his door to sign him up as their heralded coach, in spite of winning the world cup they obviously see right through his shallow thin veil of illusionary grandeur as perhaps some of us might do just the same.
11 Nov 2007, 21:48 pm
Most players dont enjoy Loftus. Most non bull supports dont enjoy loftus.
All non bull supporters dislike bull supporters
Its the way it it-its the mentality, being thrown with cans on leaving loftus is one of the reasons many supports dislike it there
11 Nov 2007, 21:48 pm
tshwaneerder,
seriously, I know you’ve got this one wrong boet.
we’ll talk again in 6 months…
Sheriff – yeah, I hear you.
11 Nov 2007, 21:51 pm
Shefiff, I could not better in words myself. A perfect summation. Jake botched. He apparently botched again tonight(didn’t see it myself) and he’ll do soagain. But he had an incredibly difficult job under extrodinarily difficult circumstances and he delivered the goods. On how he treated the Luke Watson issue, I for one, give him no credit. Very poorly managed. But generally, he delivered didn’t he. The ultimate objective, the World cup, is in the cabinet. Can’t argue with that. Can you?
11 Nov 2007, 21:52 pm
Nick Mallett on IOL:
“There is a strong clique within the board of SA Rugby, pushed by Mike Stofile, that appears to be very anti-Jake and which was determined to see the back of him. It is not difficult to figure out where it all started – Stofile is close to Andre Markgraaff.
“Markgraaff’s nose was put out of joint by Jake a couple of years ago when Jake successfully canvassed Brian van Rooyen to have him removed from his position, which amounted to a quasi director of rugby. At the time, that was a great coup on Jake’s part, but it came back to bite him later.”
Mallett believes there has been a deliberate attempt by the SA Rugby and South African Rugby Union administrations to play down White’s role in guiding the Boks to the World Cup title.
“I heard Stofile on the radio the other day running down Jake’s role. What other country would do this? It’s all about power politics. Stofile wants to unseat Oregan Hoskins as Saru president and he is trying to show a strong hand,” said Mallett
11 Nov 2007, 21:55 pm
60 Tacticus, you must be looking forward to 2008-lol U better have goof end of year bash, I am afraid:
Copy this onto you pc dairy and read it again in August 2008 :
SA will not feature in 2008 Tri-Nations
S14 Trophy will go to NZ team (is your memory that bad-SA had no competition is first 7 rounds of S14 due to kiwi teams not featuring any AB)
11 Nov 2007, 21:55 pm
TASSIES…what exactly did White do wrong? He chose NOT to select a player! That’s his choice, he’s the coach. End of Story!
11 Nov 2007, 21:56 pm
Blokes like Mike Stofile dont last very long. At least it will push Markies back for 3-5 years.
I’m reminded of a certain well-dressed gentleman that demonstrated similar characteristics. He will remain nameless for the purpose of drawing this parralel.
This gentleman was hailed as the prince of the new order. Was coincidently at Parliament one day for a totally unrelated matter and saw how the a**creepers flocked around. By then I think the said gentleman was chief whip or getting close.
This gentleman received a big discount on a vehicle.
When reports about this surfaced, this gentleman then placed a R250k ad in a newspaper to proclaim his innocence. This gentleman was found guilty in the end by a court of law.
His own arrogance will catch up with him soon.
This I will guarantee you. Date predicted 10/11/2007 by Sheriff.
11 Nov 2007, 21:57 pm
Gerhardt – are you referring to 2007 or 2008?
I have to agree – I don’t think SA will feature in 2008.
11 Nov 2007, 21:57 pm
#432
Stadig mater
Die Bulls het die vorige twee seisoene die semi’s gehaal met al die AB’s daar, ons vat dit weer volgende jaar.
11 Nov 2007, 21:59 pm
96, Bagel- yes u are right, it appears most bloggers here are from PTA, sadly using their company time to sit and chat all day, or would that be government time?-lol
11 Nov 2007, 21:59 pm
Skop, we’ll have fun on this one until you drop I guess. Yes, I agree, if I were a decision-maker on the board of say England, I’d be thinking hard on appointing JW as my next coach. Who in their sane mind, courts controversy? Jake, willingly or otherwise, courts controversy. Seems to be in the nature of the man. shoots from the hip. At least you know what he’s thinking. Bigger question is : do you like what he’s thinking?
11 Nov 2007, 21:59 pm
441 – dude, today is SUNDAY. What company time you talking about?
11 Nov 2007, 21:59 pm
Date should of course be 11/11/2007. Easy to remember nogal – with the 11 th of the 11th month.
11 Nov 2007, 22:01 pm
149- Pietman-Good post – i soooo agree with you on Markgraaf
11 Nov 2007, 22:04 pm
Its not the decision itself Bokboi, its how you execute it. He did it badly is all. It’s now come to bite him.
11 Nov 2007, 22:07 pm
I knew I should not check “quickly” what’s up on Keo… The juices are just beginning to flow.
Have to go mates, nice chatting though – exam on Wed. Eish!
11 Nov 2007, 22:07 pm
Jake is an enigma. Nobody seems to know the man(I include myself). Half for. Half against. He stuffed things up. But…..he won the World Cup. Hero. Villian. What to think? What to do? Bugger!!!!
11 Nov 2007, 22:08 pm
Cheeky Watson should not ba allowed anywhere near SARU, nor Stofile for that matter. Whatever credibility or integrity he MAY have had in pthe past has been shown up as a sham by Jakes book if he actually tried to poliyically BROKER his son into the bok team. FFS that shows a HUGE lack of respect for his son’s ability, and goes to show EXACTLY HOW MUCH he believes in selection on merit.
I would go so far as to say that if Luke Watson gets chosen now, or becomes Bok captain, I will switch allegiance to the AB’s. NO MAN is bigger thn the game.
11 Nov 2007, 22:09 pm
211 tshwaneerder :
jys verlore dude, jy het nodig dat iemand vir jou siel bid.
van watter sport praat jy nou? juksei of iets.
Roets het retire en die res van die ape wat jy noem kon nie eens bydrae om die bulle in die finaal te kry nie.
11 Nov 2007, 22:10 pm
cheers Shefiff. Good points. Enjoyed. Now study hard and don’t be tempted. It’ll cost you.
11 Nov 2007, 22:11 pm
441 bokboi I am refering to keo.co.za in general- not only todays postings-
biki imaginasie asb
11 Nov 2007, 22:13 pm
Outta here. Dodoos time. Chat nother time.
11 Nov 2007, 22:16 pm
Why dont we start a vote of no confidence campaingn in Stofile, who is obviously the instagattor of all this bad publicity around JW. See the article on Mallet at 433
11 Nov 2007, 22:22 pm
271-twaneerder=lol beste ding wat jy nog vandag gese het -lol
11 Nov 2007, 22:26 pm
Jake White is gebore as Jacob Westerduin. Miskien moes hy onder die naam vir die pos sy aansoek ingegooi het.
11 Nov 2007, 22:28 pm
351 Tacticus, if u gonna copy an article direct- have the decency to at least quote where u copied it from
11 Nov 2007, 22:31 pm
Who cares about Luke (and I’m in Cape Town). He was never good enough, let’s hope the whole book is not about him, boring read then.
11 Nov 2007, 22:32 pm
352-bokboi – i agree with u on that one
11 Nov 2007, 22:36 pm
360 bokboi mooi gese da
11 Nov 2007, 22:39 pm
366 superbul :
gave the over from Cheeky Watson any thoughts. Make one wonder about the honesty of Jake.
lees mooi oom: dit se: HE GAVE IT A THOUGHT=it does not make him dishonest
Ek het al baie daaraan gedink om n bank te roof-maak dit my n krimineel?
11 Nov 2007, 22:40 pm
369 Kayoss
well said mate- i dont know where some of these ppl creep out of —seriously -eish-lol
11 Nov 2007, 22:43 pm
373 bagel- should we make a movie so u understand it all?
JW was forced to include LW, and by opennly stating he is not good enough is being honest. JW is in fact sayiong that every other rugby player in sa in 2007 that was not included in bokl squad was also not good enough……do u get the picture—-
now let it go man
11 Nov 2007, 22:56 pm
Nag julle grotes-gesels weer binnekort
11 Nov 2007, 23:06 pm
Gerhardt, Stofile is blykbaar net Andre Markgraaf se pion. Ek weet nie wat maak Markgraaf so spesiaal om altyd in die prentjie te wees nie.
11 Nov 2007, 23:17 pm
I want this book.
11 Nov 2007, 23:17 pm
Luke Watson fans – you are letting loyalty get in the way of your objectivity
Its simple
* Luke Watson is a good player – no argument
* Unfortunately for Luke he came along when there are lots of good flankers in SA. Jacques Botes played well in 2006 and 2007 and he never got a look in. Sure Luke is better than Solly but if we did not pick Solly it does not follow that Luke would get in
* Jake Whites job is to call it as he sees it and he did not pick Luke. Period.
* I agree he was a little over the top with some of his statements but he had to be definitive. After all Steph Nel et al will all crying conspiracy theories
* However the Watsons and Luke look more than a little culpable around their actions in getting the lawyer to effectively ‘threaten’ Jake
* If these threats happen then good for Jake for exposing them (no matter what his motives were
I need to read the whole book but for the life of me I cannot understand how the Luke-lovers can sweep these ‘threat’ actions under the carpet. They are relevant
So Jake did not pick Luke because he thought he wasn’t good enough. Get over it
11 Nov 2007, 23:18 pm
Jake you legend! brilliant … luke Watson is a kak rugby player …. most overrated in SA! Viva Jake viva
11 Nov 2007, 23:39 pm
ruck
is your husband
married
to a
*****
12 Nov 2007, 00:07 am
#2
“THe dislike for playing at Loftus – apart from the Bulls players??? This shocks me, truly – LOL.”
I knew he was anti Bull. Two face Jake eh?
12 Nov 2007, 00:09 am
#11
“I remember I was his fiercest critic when week after week he kept insisting that Eddie Andrews, Solly T, Q Davids and Bolla were in the team on merit. It felt like he was lying to the fans who knew better. Now it turns out he didn’t have much choice.”
if I was Jake, I would done the honorable thing at the time..resign. Meyer will not put up with political interference.
12 Nov 2007, 00:18 am
i wonder what will happen if the next bok coach (Meyer?) does not select Luke Watson.
i do not believe Luke is good enough to start for the boks, but he may force his way into the squad with another good S14.
any thoughts people?
12 Nov 2007, 00:22 am
**After the Test, Watson and Waylon Murray had their capping ceremonies. Murray had 16 people, all friends and family, present. Watson was capped on his own.**
so Watson had no mates in the bok side?? where was Schalk??
It will be interesting to wait and see the reply from the Watson clan to Jake’s book. They are always two sides to every story.
expect the lawyers to be busy.
12 Nov 2007, 00:26 am
#468
Meyer will not put up with any inference. Unlike Jake, a NTvl coach is never going to be a puppet for anyone.
Luke is just too small, SA have never gone for small flankers. Regardless of form.
12 Nov 2007, 00:37 am
“if I was Jake, I would done the honorable thing at the time..resign. Meyer will not put up with political interference”
Honourable? that would have been the weak thing to do. Jake stuck to it, fought through the political interferance and got to play a merit 22 in the world cup final. Had jake resigned he would have been replaced by a political pawn who would have done as he was told.
If Heyneke Meyer is unable to take the heat of political interferance then he should withdraw his application now, because political interferance is part and parcel of the bok coaching job, and has been for 10 years now.
12 Nov 2007, 00:40 am
“Suddenly it wasn’t a case of transformation, but about picking the black players they wanted when they wanted them.â€
It will be interesting to read the book in order to reveal the true mastermind behind all this.
12 Nov 2007, 00:52 am
munkiboi
so you are saying Meyer should cavein and select black players as instructed??
we have a different understanding of honourable.
12 Nov 2007, 00:54 am
470 – “Meyer will not put up with any inference. Unlike Jake, a NTvl coach is never going to be a puppet for anyone”
so, based on you post 467 + 470, how long before Meyer resigns? Because you seem to think that either you become a puppet or you resign.
and who exactly was jake a puppet for? my understanding was that Jake was wanted out because he refused to be a puppet.
also, is there still a place called NTvl and when did Meyer coach them?
12 Nov 2007, 00:57 am
no g13g – I am saying he will be under pressure to ensure he picks more black players than he usually does at the bulls. merit or not.
so he will either have to pick them, or he will be forced to resign.
you are saying he will pick exactly who he wants for every single game, and no one can stop him.
i say if you believe that you live in a fools paradise, and it must be a great place, so i’d like to visit.
12 Nov 2007, 01:08 am
munkiboi
it is sad, a coach cannot simply pick a side based on one critieria; merit.
ity seems, people are willing to accept a puppet coach then one honest with themselves. if you are happy to see a Springbok side with 10 black players based on race, then this is a fools paradise.
NTvl is the true name of my birthplace and true blue bloods will know it by no other name.
12 Nov 2007, 01:15 am
The people in SA rugby we should really be talking about must be loving all this.
Whilst half of SA argues with the other half of SA about Jake White, no one notices that Andre Maarkgraaf and Harold Verster are again in the process of taking a grip on SA Rugby by attempting to put their latest chosen puppet into the driving seat.
Not sure if anyone remembers but these were the 2 guys who got BvR elected initially. Then when he turned out to be an individual and not the puppet they thought he was they started a massive campaign to discredit him, which was started by Verster himself with the whole Rover car spnsorship.
Now Jake is gone, and these guys are chuffed to bits. Soon they will have Mad Mike Stofile in place, and he will ensure maarkgraaf gets another prominent role in SA rugby – a non elected role that is – because he would never get elcted these days.
So here we are going on and on about someone who soon will have no further role in SA rugby, whilst behind the scenes the manouvering is ensuring that self serving ego maniancs are rising once again.
Andre Maarkgraaf must be a zombie. I have no idea how this guys keeps bouncing back.
And once Maarkgraaf is back in power, will heyneke meyer have the guile that Jake had when he managed to get him removed? Does anyone know what the relationship is between Meyer and maarkgraaf at the moment? Is there a broederbond relationship, or is it a mutually beneficial relationship that could turn sour at any time? I am curious.
12 Nov 2007, 01:19 am
I gather then Maarkgraaf has being the one manipulating for position in the shadows??
I think Andre will get on better with Meyer then Jake.
12 Nov 2007, 01:23 am
ohh. This should be a good read
12 Nov 2007, 01:39 am
#479
are you going to read Keo’s book as well??
any revealing details in Keo’s book??
how the administrators manipulated the media??
12 Nov 2007, 02:05 am
476 – i want what every bok fan wants. a side picked purely on merit. we got this under jake when he picked his match 22 for the knockout stages of the world cup.
but the reality of SA rugby is that there is immense political pressure. the only reason he was allowed to pick a merit bok team was becauase of the credibility he bought as a “champion of transformation” by picking quota players early on.
remember the bok team he picked in 2005 that had 6 blacks starting and another 3 on the bench. he beat australia 33-20. 9 out of the 22 that day were black or coloured players.
had jake picked his full stregth team then, and whenever he wanted he would never have found the support he found, and he would njot have survived to the world cup.
people question his integrity because he picked players on skin colour. i think he was a freaking genious – and anyone who thinks you can be a bok coach in SA without being a bit clever from time to time does not really appreciate how the real south africa works.
the sign of a great coach is not the one who is allowed to pick the strongest team week after week, but the person who when forced to pick quotas can still deliver the most consistent coaching record over a significant period of time of any coach in our history.
12 Nov 2007, 02:10 am
munkiboi
thank you for that. I see the validity of your argument. I feel mosst for the players picked on color. They will know themselves why they have being selected.
12 Nov 2007, 03:21 am
..resign. Meyer will not put up with political interference.
Comment by greatest13gerber : November 12, 2007 @ 12:09 am
Mmm I give him max 6 months then…!
I don’t think anyone understand the pressure a person like JW was under to not only perform but also to answer to 20 bosses with contradicting goals.
And this sudden talk about Markies again, sheesh, I see dark day ahead.
12 Nov 2007, 03:29 am
More boys
12 Nov 2007, 03:33 am
Hi Princess
Koos,I agree, how did Markies get a second life after those famous “phone calls” and with the very people he was insulting…only in SA.
Agreed,we can only go backwards with that man.
12 Nov 2007, 03:40 am
Manly
So how did you make out over the weekend in the end ?
12 Nov 2007, 03:50 am
More Princess, Manly!
Princess, you can’t ask a man a question like THAT on a blog!!!
Manly, money talks boet…
12 Nov 2007, 03:59 am
Just okay Princess,nothing exciting….not happy…but let’s talk **** instead,it’s much more fun.
Jeez gentian violet…that brings back memories….all those purple kids,especially my younger brother who was never destined for 2 wheeled forms of transport,and would be brought home at least once a week in the back of some housewifes car ,bike and all on to be slathered in purple.
12 Nov 2007, 03:59 am
Koos
Manly knows I was referring to his recreational pharamceutical operation -NOT- his other recreational activities
Although I am a bit worried about this obsession with Cinderella … his “companions” are getting younger & younger – I swear this one was wearing a school uniform ! Do you think that is appropriate for this silver tongued silverback ?
12 Nov 2007, 04:02 am
…particularly fond of pumpkin…
12 Nov 2007, 04:03 am
Manly
Would you belive after working like a navvy on the weekend I am told this morning the “marketing numbers need to change” – like they are in their PJs or something
My father thought there was nothing that could not be “made better” by Gentian Violet & a biscuit. More than once a limb ended up in a cast several days after the “incident” & then only AFTER it was proved that the purple stuff had not done it’s magic !
12 Nov 2007, 04:05 am
Manly
You know, I a pretty sure there is a law against that …
12 Nov 2007, 04:08 am
“recreational pharamceutical operation”…huhh?!?!
Let me guess Princess, he wants the numbers to be a little more sassy!!!
12 Nov 2007, 04:09 am
Hehe Princess,but I bet you girls spoilt him rotten….I come from 4 boys so my poor mother.
“marketing numbers need to change yes but do they want to change.
Send him that blank email that asks you to look closely and then suddenly reveals a “Vetkoek” like naked butt….I got whiplash!
12 Nov 2007, 04:28 am
Koos
Well I assume this is what he is running given that he refers to his staff as mules …
“sassy” I wish – he is looking for “sexy” would you believe ? I am tempted to say okay, but that will cost more …
Manly
Oohh God – your poor mother is right ! Two of us were definitely daddy’s girls – the man never had to pour himself a drink once he had taught us how to pour his “whiskey” just right when we were 6 years old. Do you have any daughters ?
I was tempted to slip one into the slide show but one never can tell with Investment Bankers – I am sure some of them have had their sense of humour surgically removed. Imagine having to explain how a $145m deal went into the toilet because of a nudie gag ? Not a conversation I really want to be part of
12 Nov 2007, 04:38 am
Yep Princess,a 10 yr old ,light of my life……controlling little cow too…
12 Nov 2007, 05:05 am
Its about if a player is good enough for tests …not if the coach or other players like him
12 Nov 2007, 05:06 am
Manly
You know daughters are God’s little joke on men don’t you ?
12 Nov 2007, 05:14 am
Manly
After all you don’t have too many years left before pimply faced boys rock up to your door with questionable intentions & a date with your daughter
12 Nov 2007, 05:15 am
Jake will have to be careful or people might think he is racist
12 Nov 2007, 05:30 am
Jis, Jis
Almal in Oz, and RP there HKG also.
Howzit going on this kuk Monday with you all?
12 Nov 2007, 05:32 am
Sexy numbers?! Tell him to buy a magazine!
‘controlling little cow’ – do you at least have a boy to offset this Manly?
12 Nov 2007, 05:36 am
Dagse Pete, lekker kuk this side as well thanks! To much stuff to little time…
PS And my internet is slower than WO through a gap…
12 Nov 2007, 05:44 am
More piet
What are lot complaininn about k*k ? I worked all weekend on something that was due in Sydney no later than 9.30am sydney time – it still has not been submitted & now requires “sexing up” !
I think shortly I will be throwing a hissy fit & storm off shopping
12 Nov 2007, 05:47 am
Good on Jake for telling the truth about the “inspirational” (NOT) Fluke Wotsup and his ANC brown-nosing lickspittle father, Cheeky.
12 Nov 2007, 05:58 am
And any coach’s contract contains all sorts of “non-disclosure” clauses which means that if you run to the press with your opinions, you can end up without a job and a few million Rands of potential income. Potential future employers will also have you marked as someone who provenly breaches sworn contractual agreements and then you’re pretty much unemployable.
Jake’s now off contract. He’s kept his end of the deal and now he’s free to say whatever he can. Even so, there are bound to be various OTHER little non-disclosure clauses which means that the 100% full truth will probably NEVER be known.
After all, has Keo himself ever FULLY spilt the beans on all the drama and chaos of his time right in the belly of the beast?
12 Nov 2007, 05:59 am
Hehehe Princess, you tell him where he can go and stick his ‘sexy’ numbers.
12 Nov 2007, 06:27 am
G’day ladies and gents. Nice sunny day in Auckland. Think I’m gonna put a snapper on the braai and have a few cold ones, afterall it is Monday.
You go JW, tell it warts and all. Luke “dingbat” Watson is not well liked by teammates. Thinks the sun shines out of his ar*e and I’ve heard this first hand from a few different sources.
As for Skopskiet, mate you need to go lie on a couch and talk to someone. Your hatred of JW is really not natural.
12 Nov 2007, 06:47 am
#508
yes it was beautiful day today. I’m on the Shore..beautiful sights at mairangi Beach this afternoon.
jake oh Jake..just couldn’t go quietly.
12 Nov 2007, 06:56 am
Jake my Man!!!
In a way I feel sorry for Luke. Think Cheeky is a very dominant father, not Luke’s fault that his dad wants him to succeed where he failed!
12 Nov 2007, 06:56 am
John Smit played in Clement-Auvergne’s Heineken win yesterday. He came on for Argentina’s Ledesma.
12 Nov 2007, 06:58 am
Neil De Kock captain Eddie’s Saracens to a win. I can’t wait til Brent Russell is fit to see his impact.
12 Nov 2007, 06:59 am
Whatever…
Agree.
What is the feeling on Jake’s book in Kiwi land and on the cricket massacre?
12 Nov 2007, 07:03 am
Big Hit…
Good to hear Saffas are doing well in HC!
What did u think of the standard of rugby?
I thought it was quite good, Joel and Kobus thought it was very slow and not at the same level as S14.
12 Nov 2007, 07:04 am
#466 – Porra
You
have
no
frikkin
idea
how
much
of a
*****….
12 Nov 2007, 07:06 am
Any news on FdP yet?
12 Nov 2007, 07:09 am
514
Standard of rugby is always decent in the HC but its Autumn over here and the ground is soft so it is slower. There’s no point sending the ball wide every two minutes if the outside backs aren’t going to gain ground.
I’d love to see some HC teams play in the Super 14 for a round or two. A team like Newcastle with Flood, the two Taits, Noon and Wilkinson could really play some running rugby which they never get an opportunity to up here, likewise Leinster with D’Arcy, O’Driscoll and others.
515
lol
lol
12 Nov 2007, 07:11 am
Kobus and Joel thinks that HM has the best credentials for the Bok job.
12 Nov 2007, 07:11 am
Watson: Revelations laughable
11/11/2007 22:03 – (SA)
No decision on Stormers capt
Luke played with broken ribs
White forced to pick Watson?
Stephen Nell , Die Burger
Cape Town – Neither Luke Watson nor his father, Cheeky, knows Brian Biebuyck, the lawyer who – according to Jake White’s autobiography – wanted to facilitate an agreement between the Springbok coach and the Watson family.
“Brian Biebuyck never negotiated on my behalf or on Luke’s behalf,” Cheeky Watson said on Sunday.
Sunday newspapers reported that Biebuyck had tried, on behalf of the Watsons, to reach an agreement with White that would have ensured the coach of a future in SA rugby if he, among other things, included Watson in his World Cup squad.
White reportedly accepted the deal through his agent, Craig Livingstone, but the Watsons “backed off”.
Cheeky Watson described this story, as well as other “revelations,” as laughable.
“A few months ago Luke was someone who had to go fetch beer; now he is a spy. I find all these stories laughable and absurd,” Watson snr said.
“If you think that I have so many contacts out there, even right to the president of the country, it becomes even more absurd because I did not agree with Luke going to the Springboks’ training camp or playing against Samoa.
“The reason for that was the history of Jake’s attitude towards Luke. The only protest I could show was by not attending the presentation of (Springbok) colours to Luke. That is, to any player or parent, a highlight.
‘Wonder what the next episode will bring’
“Luke himself did not want to attend the training camp or play against Samoa.
“Luke and I are being accused of so many things that I wonder what the next episode will bring.”
In a highly controversial move earlier this year, Luke Watson was included, against White’s will, in the national training squad. He injured his ribs in his Test debut, against Samoa.
“I find it deplorable that some sections of the media write these things as if they were facts, without investigating them,” Watson snr said.
“Neither I nor Luke know Brian Biebuyck. The only contact I have ever had with him was when Luke terminated his business involvement with Craig Livingstone.”
Watson said his son had felt Livingstone would be unable to act in his best interests because he was also White’s agent.
“Brian Biebuyck wrote me a letter in which he set out the terms for the termination of the agreement between Luke and Livingstone.”
Biebuyck does act as legal representative for Cheecky’s elder brother Ronnie, who is not entitled to negotiate on behalf of Luke or Cheeky.
Cheeky said stories of “telephone conversations being monitored” sounded to him as if they came “from the mouth of a man with delusions”.
“I wish him (White), his wife and the two fetchers everything of the best,” he said.
“As a Christian, it is my wish that nothing untoward will happen to him and that he will be blessed in everything he does.”
Biebuyck and Livingstone did not respond to telephone messages on Sunday
12 Nov 2007, 07:14 am
Sorry, morning all.
Big Hit, it certainly seems as though playing in the NH agrees with our players, and their form. Brent Russell is Matt Gitteau: with class..Eddie J is gonna have a ball with Brent – we treated him like dirt here in SA..
Koos, your internet is slower than WO through a gap?? LOL – sheez, wasn’t aware there was anything slower – except possibly the ability of our administrators to frikking wake up.
Tinus, glad to see you agree that young Luke didn’t stand a chance, what with his father and everyone else adding to his woes…
Princess – close the deal…also spent the whole weekend working (in between sporadic bouts of aggression here) And today – same story, same ****….
12 Nov 2007, 07:16 am
Big Hit…
Would be nice to see the HC winner to play in S14 and S14 winner to play in HC!
12 Nov 2007, 07:19 am
Tinus i think the Bulls are playing the winner end of January, not sure we the Bulls opponent is. Would love a return game in SA.
12 Nov 2007, 07:24 am
Ruck
I have a T-Shirt printed specially for times like these “SS,DD” – Same Sh*t, Different Day.
Am feeling the need for a bit of Retail Therapy & can see Harvey-Nicks being graced in a short while as I believe they have just received a new shipment of Veuve – who knows, there may even be a tasting
12 Nov 2007, 07:27 am
523
A 2 game series would be great and if its 1-1, a 3rd game to decide the winner.
Wasps are the current european champions so it will be they who take on the Bulls if it goes ahead.
12 Nov 2007, 07:29 am
Princess – nothing like blowing money you ain’t earned yet, on something you don’t really need, yet looks soooooo good in the window )or on the shelf…..) These boys will never get it.
Tasting??? Grab the frikkin promotions gal, – take her stock and run………RUN FOREST RUN!
12 Nov 2007, 07:29 am
Hey Princess,I’m also having that kind of day, but the only retail therapy I need can be done across a bar counter…….”one of each of those coloured bottles please barman,spaced a minute apart”
12 Nov 2007, 07:30 am
If all this is true then Cheeky would have to take a long hard look and realise that he has seriously done his son serious harm.
Problem is with activists, they will continue the fight long after it is over or they will find a new one to get involved in. Now EP has joint presidency I believe to allow Cheeky Watson onto the President’s Council. I always hoped and campaigned for an EP resurgence, not so sure I can support it now.
12 Nov 2007, 07:31 am
Manlybok – what you’re describing ain’t retail therapy – its called ADDICTION. (or lack of self discipline…..)
12 Nov 2007, 07:37 am
Ruck
Well exactly right ! The Harvey-Nics liquor lady & I are old foes. She only really complains when you bring a friend & drag chairs across from another section clearly setting up for a long visit
Manly
Harvey-Nics you can get all liquored up while buying insanely expensive shoes (that you will rarely wear) – the best of both worlds ! Your method sounds more akin to “death by minibar”.
12 Nov 2007, 07:37 am
So Sexy, hows the Princess numbers coming on…?
Sorry, so Princess, hows the sexy numbers coming on?
12 Nov 2007, 07:38 am
Tackler #506
Jake is still under contract until the end of December.
With all these conspiracy theories has anyone thought that Jakes tenure is no different from the infighting amongst the union presidents that dates back to the days when they used to select the Springbok sides? Players became the victims of horse trading between the major unions and the presidents personal preferences.
Just look at Stofiles statement that “they” thought that Liefling should have been given a chance and that Britz was a better choice than a scrummaging hooker like JS. Then ask yourself who rates Liefling as one of the best 10s in the world and plays a mobile hooker, with his backup a retreaded flank?
Leaving the race issue out, it appears that the the gossip behind the scenes was similar to the varied opinions you’ll find every day on Keo. The difference being that the people voicing them believed they had the power to be listened to.
12 Nov 2007, 07:38 am
Cheeky is already on the council…Co-opted on Thursday already.
I still think both sides of the story MUST be weighed up, I for one will not be blinded by the He said, he did, they did allegations UNTIL the facts are blown wide open.
Lucky Luke ain’t so lucky anymore – and I say again, I’m sad….
12 Nov 2007, 07:39 am
South Africa’s World Cup fly-half Butch James marked his Bath debut by scoring one try and setting up another in the 28-6 win at Auch on Saturday.
James settled quickly on a cold evening at the Stade Jacques Fouroux, jinking through four tackles to score after 17 minutes then putting back-rower Andy Beattie over with a pin-point accurate kick.
(telegraph)
12 Nov 2007, 07:40 am
If I hear Luke’s name once more I’m going to puke……eish……
He was good whem he played for the sharks and the first season at WP. He has become heavy and slow. Even if all of this hasnt happened he would have battled to make a bok weekday team. There are too many loosies around who r better. So please let it rest.
12 Nov 2007, 07:41 am
Koos
Oohh who knows ! I ripped their PJs off, oiled them up & squeezed them back in “commando” – if that isn’t sexy enough well I say feck them !
What do you think ?
12 Nov 2007, 07:42 am
#533 – Thats great Biggles. Our boys really are shining…..
Good on ya BUTCHER….He’s playing with so much confidence…
12 Nov 2007, 07:45 am
I didn’t see the Bath game, I wanted to but I missed it, but I thought it was interesting to hear that Butch ‘jinked’ his way to the line. I’ve never seen him jink ever
12 Nov 2007, 07:47 am
Off to Harvee-Nics & champers – bye you kids
12 Nov 2007, 07:47 am
Ha I would have said feck them a while ago…a bit like I am feeling about the set I am looking at. The idiot can’t to a simple cashflow to save his life, will help if he check his calcs first, maybe he would have picked up the $1m he left out in his balance sheet or the $7m he left out of his cash number! But know, lets just put a highlighted block in the cashflow to say “This does not work” and leave it to Koos to fix. Well feck me, try to get your balance sheet to balance and we can take it from there…
12 Nov 2007, 07:49 am
#537 – Biggles, forgot to ask you yesterday. What the hell is this dreadful ’70′s facial hair fashion statement the Leicster team are trying to make??? Andy Goode looked like Hutch – its horrible….and quite a few others were sporting moustaches with sideburns??? Hideous….
Thank the fates Martin Corry is still ‘clean’.
Are they trying to raise money or something Biggles?? I bloody well hope so, ‘cos if its out of choice………..WOE BE ME.
12 Nov 2007, 07:50 am
kevi 527
The PC can coopt people onto the board without them being Provincial Presidents. Besides, I understand Watson is being put in charge of organising the Eastern Cape sides, EP, Border and SWD, not just EP. That’s a poisened chalice if ever there was one, although with his history there, it might be an inspired choice.
12 Nov 2007, 07:51 am
Koos
You are missing the point hon – the word “balance” in the term “Balance Sheet” is more of a guideline than an actual rule for some
12 Nov 2007, 07:52 am
More Koos – having some fun at work I see.
Morning Doc – thanks for the great weather we had yesterday – keep it up please.
On the topic, I think Cheeky did his son no favours and I have to agree that he is presently simply not good enough for the bok side, he’s lost his mobility and if he doesn’t start bulking down he is going to end up looking like Dunning.
12 Nov 2007, 07:53 am
#540
I saw that. The fullback as well. I thought I was watching the History channel.
12 Nov 2007, 07:55 am
David, the EP/Border/SWD is rife with misstrust between the clubs and seem to remain split along racial lines unfortunately. The so called “black” clubs may support Cheeky but he is most definately not going to get the support from the rest of them.
12 Nov 2007, 07:55 am
Morning Trupi!!!!! O ja en Koos. Maar Koos gesels nie nie rugby hier nie.
12 Nov 2007, 07:56 am
More Trup, yip great stuff.
12 Nov 2007, 07:56 am
I have read Luke and his dads response to the allegations made against them. I just really dont know what to make of it all!! I wonder really who is telling the truth!!Jake or Cheeky?
God bless Suid Afrika
12 Nov 2007, 07:56 am
More basterbrak.
That facial hair display by Andy Goode was awful – wie gaan nou so `n bek wil soen?
12 Nov 2007, 07:57 am
I am utterly disgusted by all of this: I think Luke should be kicked out and Rassie should go with a team that looks like this:
15.) Conrad Jantjies
14.) Sireli Naqelevuki
13.) Dylan des Fountain
12.) Jean de Villiers
11.) Tonderai Chavanga
10.) Peter Grant
9.) Conrad Hoffman
8.) Robbie Diack
7.) Joe van Niekerk
6.) Schalk Burger
5.) Ross Skeate
4.) Andries Bekker
3.) Brian Mujati
2.) Schalk Brits
1.) JD MOller
12 Nov 2007, 07:57 am
Koos it seems we are all sorrounded by clients, colleagues who are either incompetent of a bunch of ……….. We might as well be gynaes…
I’m trying (at this time of the morning, no less) to convince someone that flighting ads for a certain alcoholic beverage at 06:00 in the morning, is NOT the way to go. Apart from the true alcoholic and your average disillusioned Stormers/WP supporter – WHO THE HELL is thinking of booze at that time???
Trupisero – aloha – some crappy Cumulus clouds above….
12 Nov 2007, 07:58 am
540
Yeah, its for charity Ruck, I initially thought it was to welcome the Argentina coach Loffreda by ironically sporting Mexican moustaches but its to raise cash.
12 Nov 2007, 08:00 am
#544 – #549 : History channel?? : The Evolution of Man??
I’m relieved it was not only my sensitive nature that was offended by the Hair Bears – revolting.
Even my hubby grimaced….
12 Nov 2007, 08:00 am
#552
I thought it was back in fashion in Europe. I’ve already started growing my moustache and sideburns……
12 Nov 2007, 08:01 am
#552 – RELIEF….
12 Nov 2007, 08:01 am
What will it take to get rid of that dunderhead Mike Stofile. He is the Manto of South African Rugby
12 Nov 2007, 08:02 am
#553
I’ll rather look like that than a girl…like a certain “Bok” centre…
12 Nov 2007, 08:03 am
Poor old Marcello Loffreda DID receive a welcome…Must have been **** for the man (a GREAT coach) to see Felipe kicking Leinster to glory and Leicster into touch…
12 Nov 2007, 08:03 am
More K9, ek doen soms maar die tyd wat ek gesels praat meeste mense net strooi…
Yip ruck, I assume 6am will be cheap at least, useless but cheap!
12 Nov 2007, 08:04 am
#556
A new government.
12 Nov 2007, 08:05 am
BPS 548 – where did you find that?
12 Nov 2007, 08:06 am
#557 – You talking about Barbie?? Wait for the Super 14 – Barbie and Ken, a formidable force in the midfield for the Bulls.
12 Nov 2007, 08:06 am
558
Indeed, from what I’ve heard Loffreda had not wanted to tinker too much with the team following Leicester’s good start. But following the defeat, he has assumed full control and will now start to implement changes. I wouldn’t be surprised if he tried to sign Contempomi or stepped up the pursuit of Hernandez. Andy Goode just isn’t that good.
12 Nov 2007, 08:07 am
How much is this book.
12 Nov 2007, 08:14 am
Anyhoo while I’m waiting for an answer …
fell into a time warp on Saturday. I looked at my TV and saw Gaffie.
12 Nov 2007, 08:15 am
Dawn 564 – one weeks wages?
12 Nov 2007, 08:16 am
Heard on the news just now. Chelsea dumped Harry cause he missed her 22nd birthday party to attend the WC final. Good for him. His got his priorities right.
12 Nov 2007, 08:19 am
#563 – I think he’s hot on getting Juan Martin there Biggles. However – at what cost?? Stade are NEVER going to release the worlds TOP 10…without a huge fight OR a few million pounds. Even though Stade were the clowns that played him at fullback…..So Hernandez has taken a few swipes at them in the past – MAYBE?? I am sure he would love to play under Loffreda, as would any player (IMHO) Betya, you are going to see more and more Argies setting up shop out your way Biggles – France just might be the BIG loser.
12 Nov 2007, 08:20 am
#562
One of the reasons Louden left.
12 Nov 2007, 08:22 am
#565 – And as in the past Gaffie’s hair looked fantastic (highlights), but his overall kicking game, in stark contrast to his hair was NOT….
12 Nov 2007, 08:24 am
BARBIE:I’m a Barbie girl, in a Barbie world, black in plastic – its fantastic…You can touch my hair, take me everywhere, I am your creation…..KEN:(deep voice) C’mon Barbie lets go party….
12 Nov 2007, 08:33 am
Morning Bloggers.
Gonna be interesting reading this.
12 Nov 2007, 08:36 am
more Staal!!
12 Nov 2007, 08:38 am
hallo trupi,
hoe lyk dinge? goeie naweek gehad?
12 Nov 2007, 08:42 am
Staal.
Dinge gaan goed. Naweek was gelukkig heel rustig vir `n verandering.
Lieflike weer gehad gister en dit op die gholfbaan gaan mors. Maar my partner her gelukkig `n bleddie oulike prys gewen – `n week vir 4 by een van 21 gholf resorts in die land!
So ek kan darem uitsien na `n lekker week se gholf in die nuwe jaar!
Probeer nog besluit waarnatoe ons sal gaan.
12 Nov 2007, 08:47 am
575 trupi,
ek wou gaat scuba het by suidkus,
hel maar daai weer was sleg. het toe maar dit gelos en sommer daar by Ushaka gou in die tenk gescuba.. was nie te sleg nie.
12 Nov 2007, 08:49 am
I ask again … how much is this book.
12 Nov 2007, 08:49 am
Sal nie verbaas wees as hier nog gaan hofsake kom nie. Seker maar een van die redes hoekom hulle nie meer vir Jake wil he as afrigter nie. Daai boek gaan die hele sarfu ontbloot vir wat hulle regtig is. Dit miskien die einde van rugby in SA ?
12 Nov 2007, 08:51 am
Hello al julle Maandag werksoekers.
Bly om te sien julle is almal nugter en veilig terug.
Wonder hoe Cousin se duikery verloop, Kerneels se mos die weer is sleg daai kant.
12 Nov 2007, 08:54 am
Andre
Nie veel wat hulle (Saru) kan doen nou nie, die boek is op die rakke (of is dit nog nie te koop nie?)
Maar dit klink of die spul maar onsmaaklik was tot die aanloop van Luke se eerste toets.
Snaaks, mens kon dit sien op die veld, hy het nie deel gelyk van die span nie.
Arme ou.
Dit is eintlik maar kuk om so jou loopbaan te begin (en af te sluit).
12 Nov 2007, 08:56 am
Dawn R151
Pete, eers iewers in Desember sover ek weet.
12 Nov 2007, 08:58 am
More Pietman.
Cousin het seker sit en suip die heeltyd.
Staal – duik jy dan in die groot tenk by Ushaka? Was nog nie daar, laas daar met die ou akwarium nog gewees. **** dis nogal nice.
12 Nov 2007, 09:00 am
Pietman
Lyk my Luke is ook nie juis in die goeie boeke by WP rugby nie. Dink die ou moet maar OP toe verhuis en help om rugby daar op die been te bring. Dink nou regtig nie dis lekker om saam met ‘n groep spelers te speel en die ouens hou nie regtig van jou nie.
12 Nov 2007, 09:03 am
Hallo daar Pietman!
Moes Vrydag vinnig loop sonder om baai te se!
Wou nog weet of jy en katman nie miskien dieselfde ou is nie? Kan nie glo sulke ouens bestaan werklik nie!
Ps: Ek en ruck is een, twee name, teenoorgestelde idees! Ek Blou Bul, Ruck WP!
12 Nov 2007, 09:07 am
Dawn – you can get it off Kalahari for R 151.96 – i suspect it will be round 190 or so in Book shops.
12 Nov 2007, 09:07 am
Andre_WP…
Stem saam, sal beter wees vir Luke by die OP. Daar gaan net probleme wees as hy nie kaptein is nie, baie goeie loosies in die Kaap!
12 Nov 2007, 09:09 am
Ig, Kalahari says down from R185, assume that will be the bookshop price.
12 Nov 2007, 09:10 am
ruck…
If Luke plays for Province, and Pote coach the Bulls, it balances out nicely! Hehehe!
12 Nov 2007, 09:10 am
Good Morning,
Say what you all will about Jake, but he has made a difference in SA rugby and he will now make a difference by letting us all know what really goes on behind the scenes. Now we dont have to rely on unreliable journalists for stories, we can get it from the very man it happened to!!!!
Now that cheeky watson denies the allegations, why did he say Luke didnt even want to play…he wasnt forced to and could have turned down the invite….really….
I think Luke Watson is a selfish pratt and was never a team player and Jake saw that. Jake created a team with individuals in it, not individuals to make a team…..GO JAKE!!!!
12 Nov 2007, 09:14 am
Wonder of daar genoeg copies gaan wees van die boek?
12 Nov 2007, 09:16 am
Tinus, as hulle opraak print hulle nog…
12 Nov 2007, 09:17 am
Hiro…
I think Cheeky is the dirty one, very bad influence on Luke!
12 Nov 2007, 09:20 am
Koos…
Moet solank begin print!
12 Nov 2007, 09:22 am
Tinus
Nee, ek en ou Katman stry so een keer n jaar oor die volk, kultuur en taal.
Ons kompeteer vir die ATKV prys.
12 Nov 2007, 09:23 am
I think jake is saying to much and he can make the current players feel uncomfortable.
12 Nov 2007, 09:23 am
Net gou terug by Stofile en Markgraaf.
Markgraaf het glo gese hy sal nie eers die job vat teen ‘n miljoen ‘n dag nie!
12 Nov 2007, 09:24 am
# 562
Ruck, klink my jy is so bietjie behep en jaloers op ou ‘barbie’ se hare …
12 Nov 2007, 09:27 am
Pietman…
Katman staan nie ‘n kans nie! Hy haat dan Afrikaans, te verkramp en regs vir hom!
12 Nov 2007, 09:31 am
#594 ATKV Prys
12 Nov 2007, 09:31 am
Alf…
Hehehje! Jy is reg, haar hare lyk seker soos Bolla sin!
Sorry ruck!
12 Nov 2007, 09:44 am
Hey Tinus, lyk my jy het die hele naweek lank gemor oor my.
So ‘n beheptheid is nie gesond nie, ou bees.
Afrikaners is mos plesierig, dan nie?
12 Nov 2007, 09:48 am
More, more……….. lieflike dag buite, die voëltjies fluit, die sonnetjie skyn helder…….. die koffie was lekker……
Ek gaan definitief ou Jake se boekie koop…….. ek dink dit gaan ‘n bestseller wees, ongetwyfeld……
Maggies, as mens kan glo wat ou Jake gisteraand op Carte Blanche kwygeraak het……… en ek glo dit want ek sien geen rede hoekom hy so iets sou versin nie……… dan is daai Watson-Mafia-Familie & Saamlopers darem maar erg korrup…
……….maar nouja ons weet dit al laaaankal…. boeties vir bandjies….. onderlinge gekonkel…. ai jai jai……. wens ek kan so paar PK’s daar uitdeel…..
Interessant dat die Grootkoppe van die Borge & Johan Rupert vir Jake so beskerm het…… wys jou darem net, hier sit ons met ware besigheidsmanne (nie freegin dom rugbyadministrateurs soos by SARU en die Unies nie) wat bereid was om op te staan om getel te word.
Aan gesien ek so groot Jake-kritikus was, voor die Lulu debakel, sal dit interessant wees om in diepte kennis te neem wat in 2005 en 2006 verkeerd geloop het…….. dis waar my kritiek teen hom die felste was…..
Ek sal ook graag wil lees hoe Jake dit reggekry het om eweskielik in 2007 meer Media-wys te raak, want dit was juis met die Lulu-storie dat ek weer respek vir die man begin kry het….. en veral daarna toe hy vir Eddie Moans aangestel het om te help.
Die hele korrupte sirkus gaan ontbloot word en paar manne staan reeds met hul broeke op die knieë gevang…….
Natuurlik gaan daar ‘n paar goed in die boek wees waarmee ek nie saamstem nie….. maar daar behoort geen beweegrede te wees vir versinsels van Jake se kant nie…. hoekom sou daar….. wat sou White daardeur kon wên, deur te lieg….
12 Nov 2007, 09:49 am
Exclusive books start selling Jake’s book on Thursday………As far as I know – could have changed again. PS: Anyone else find that Craig Livingstones bloody name is also being bandied around FAR 2 much these days?? Never trusted that one either….Agent/smagent
12 Nov 2007, 09:59 am
Arme Luke Watson, elke keer as sy pa sy mond oopmaak dan styg Luke se ongewildheid in SA
Plaas dat hy stil bly en sy seun los om sy gevegte te veg … hy is mos nou ‘n mooi groot seun.
Iemand moet asb net vir Luke sê om die waatlemoene by die huis te los, asook dat daar groter truinommers is om aan te trek.
12 Nov 2007, 10:00 am
If i have to choose between Jake and anyone thats mates with SARU i pick Jake any day.
Is it just me or does Zola Yeye look like E.T
12 Nov 2007, 12:01 pm
qw1
12 Nov 2007, 13:36 pm
Jeeez you okes talk a lot pure unadulterated kak – but the funniest has to be Pietman’s there is no racism at Loftus, dam i haven’t laughed that much in ages. Blinkered.
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