In Black and White
11 Nov 2007
Jake White, in his autobiography ‘In Black and White’ confirms that Luke Watson was never wanted by the Bok players.
Watson has never been initiated as a Bok player and White holds back nothing in detailing the circumstances that forced him to select Watson for one test against Samoa.
The Rapport Newspaper and Sunday Times newspaper brought exclusivity to the extracts of the book, due for release next week, and Rapport focused mostly on the Watson affair.
Both newspapers also detailed the prominent chapters in the book with White discussing political interference, transformation, player selection, the hell of 2006, the media’s role in South African rugby, the dislike for playing at Loftus among players outside of the Bulls, his relationship with John Smit and Victor Matfield, among others, and the political minefield that dogged his four year tenure.
He insists that Watson simply was never good enough and that the Watson family tried to broker a deal with him to include Luke as a Bok and be secured a future in South African rugby.
White writes his biggest regret is not beating the All Blacks in New Zealand and that would have been his greatest motivation to continue as Bok coach.
607 Comments
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11 Nov 2007, 13:51 pm
Hello skopskiet
You enjoying the cricket?
It looks as if the Kiwi’s are going to get chopped again.
11 Nov 2007, 13:56 pm
skopskiet…Yawn.
Jake is gone, give it a rest. Let’s look ahead and give the new coach all the support he deserves. Give Jake a break and let him enjoy the success he cultivated in SA rugby. The foreign media (read Rugby Heaven) have nothing but praise for Jake, why can’t you just accept he’s a great coach and manager.
What did he do to you bud? You’re so vindictive it has to be personal. I’m sure ruck can squeeze you in for a session. I’ve not made tis plea to you personal, give Jake the same grace.
11 Nov 2007, 13:58 pm
skopskiet
I, with others like Jinx here, grew up in the shadows of Newlands’ grandstand.
Went I went the first time with my grandfather, I was three years old.
And Jinx used to sell prorammmes at the grounds on Saturdays. His uncle Alan worked at Logan Sports in Long Street all his live, and the a
old boy still goes to Newlands regurlarly at the age of of 75. So does muy grandpa.
We are WP born and bred.
But no Luke Watson, please.
His kind does not belong in Province colours.
Sorry.
11 Nov 2007, 14:01 pm
153# Pardon the spelling, I am a bit emotional when it gets to WP rugby and its traditions.
Luke doesn’t belong there, his kind doesn’t appreciate that kind of thing.
11 Nov 2007, 14:01 pm
The antithesis should now prevail. Any smug little anti Luke anti inclusive pro white is right campaigner should simply get on the same g’dam bus with their benefactor and f’off noordwards. This downright under handed game has gone on quite enough. White is not worthy to be heralded as a hero whatsoever in my book he’s a downright shame to integrity.
He can take his sour grapes and f’off to obscurity as far as his little under handed shaky legs will take him.
11 Nov 2007, 14:02 pm
Cheeky Watson, Jake White, the politicians, the administrators, the media and the public ARE all guilty of “scarlet lettering” young Luke. Whatever the kids faults (rugby talent he has in abundance), no player deserves the treatment and scorn this kid has been dished, and is STILL being dished. It really pisses me off….
Its perhaps easier to ruin a talented player, than to admit how much the rest of us (see above) all suck at life……..
11 Nov 2007, 14:05 pm
155# skoppie
Easy on the language.
I got mentioned in some dictionary once for stretching the the ‘Queens lingua’ a bit too far.
I am still embarrassed by it, and I hope my mother never gets hold of that book.
Ask Ig, seriously!
11 Nov 2007, 14:07 pm
156# ruck
Agreed, he (Luke) doesn’t deserve it.
“Maar die voorouers het groen druiwe geeet en nou is die kinders se tande stomp”.
Hy moet waai uit die WP, dat ons kan aangaan.
11 Nov 2007, 14:07 pm
Are you an author Pietman?? (Fact/fiction/educational). Would I have read anything you’ve written?
11 Nov 2007, 14:09 pm
ruck
Educational, mostly…hehehehehe!
But I am anti-Luke, ever since he has set foot in the Cape.
The old bloggers here can bear me out.
11 Nov 2007, 14:09 pm
Again skopskiet…Yawn.
11 Nov 2007, 14:11 pm
155# skoppie
“Sour grapes”.
I only notice it now.
Read my 158#, posted the same time as yours.
Great minds, I say, different application though.
11 Nov 2007, 14:16 pm
Its not what he did to me, its what he thinks he successfully got away with which rankles my brain.
I am extremely not only disappointed with the manner in which he manipulated and connived his way through his 4 years of mostly losses when they mattered but also at how gullible and fooled the bulk of you the rugby public have become, his divisive influence and childish retaliation shows him up to be the immature idiot I always knew he was. This issue of gloating how Luke was never initiated into bok colors and how his little ya broers ganged up against a fellow individual with exactly the same ideals and ambitions as them shows what a lousy downright vindictive double dealing individual he actually is.
Besides mostly his rugby coaching ability left very much to be desired or has he hoodwinked you to believing he’s so g’dam **** hot still?
11 Nov 2007, 14:16 pm
OK Pietman, so whilst studying I might have had to devour a book or 2 of yours??
I’m a pro-Luke campaigner, even though I’m also a born, bred and will die WP diehard. (Although after last season, suicide was looking attractive….)
Lets see what the new season holds, for province and country. I am, to be honest pretty hopeful on both counts.
11 Nov 2007, 14:25 pm
Vat Luke se WP en Springboktrui terug, en jaag hom en sy pa terug CB toe.
Hulle plannetjies het nie uitgewerk nie.
Luke is n ‘goner’…innie Kaap.
Laat hy gaan.
11 Nov 2007, 14:28 pm
He gets his just deserts in my book cast out into the obscure never lands of rugby’s never world. His character traits or lack thereof will show him up as if truly is a whining vindictive manipulative arrogant egotist.
11 Nov 2007, 14:31 pm
Pietman
As iemand wat self ook ‘n sterk WP span wil sien (hel, ek wil he WP moet die 2de sterkste span in die land wees), stem ek saam dat Luke die doring in WP se vlees is, of ten minste een van die dorings. Fester was blykbaar nie sterk genoeg om Luke op sy plek te sit nie, maar dit smaak my Rassie gaan nie dieselfde nonsens opvreet nie.
Luke kannie groter as die span wees nie. Dit is sy probleem.
11 Nov 2007, 14:33 pm
#166
Skoppies, have you actually even read the book?
You seem to be forgetting that we’re World champs??? And no, that is not only because of Eddie!
11 Nov 2007, 14:36 pm
White’s book should be called “Not Black or White”, because essentially he is a Grey character. Meaning that he is not all good or all bad.
White had to deal with some impossible situations that were unfairly thrust upon him, and he had to deal with some situations that were of his own making.
In the end he achieved his primary goal – the World Cup, but at what cost to himself?
11 Nov 2007, 14:37 pm
Tacitus #167
Ek wil nie saam met jou stem nie, nie graag nie, jy seinde n Bul en als.
Maar jy het my op hierdie een.
Ek stem saam (fluister).
11 Nov 2007, 14:38 pm
170
Ek verstaan Pietman.
11 Nov 2007, 14:39 pm
it will be a brave coach that will take on this hornets nest now. I’ll tell you what I would do if I were coach I’d throw the cat amongst the pigeons and blow this little farce divisiveness right out of the water once and for all, to f.ng kingdom come.
11 Nov 2007, 14:40 pm
skopskiet
I agree with you regarding Jakes integrity.
He did or does not have the same hero status a Kitch Christie but he needs to sell a book.
Negative press is what sells in SA…people will buy his book…those who love him and those who love to hate him.
I do believe that Luke watson whilst a good player…he is overrated…and worse he is well known not to be a team player. But to go and make public one’s personal indifference to the player and his family is underhanded.
11 Nov 2007, 14:40 pm
Skopskiet, you’re entitled to your opinion. I don’t think Jake was a **** hot coach, he was however a fine manager. He’s put many processes in place that will only benefit SA Rugby, and the next coach long term (Prozone to name but one).
I’m tired of defending him, just as you should be tired of constantly slating him. Everyone knows you don’t like him, please give it a rest now.
His reign is over, he finished a winner. Looking forward to your Non-Jake posts, it’s becoming an obsession with you, it ain’t healthy.
11 Nov 2007, 14:40 pm
Tacitus – I’ve cracked open the bubbly. You want to see a strong Stormers team?? I don’t think Luke is as much of a problem within the WP set up, as what people think. Our problems went far deeper than just young Watson (even though I’m in the pro Luke camp – I don’t think he should captain, and he has acted pretty tiresomely in the past)
Schalk Brits whinged and moaned more in the local media than Luke ever has – truth. I don’t think Fester could control his own bladder – never mind a senior rugby team. Felt sorry for him 2 though, the players needed to be dsiciplined, but not in the way he seemed to prefer) Rassie will not tolerate ANY **** – and I think this is where we’ll see the most improvement: GENERAL ATTITUDE.
Gary Gold already made a huge difference the latter half of the Currie Cup.
That said, I still worry about our front row, more than the effect young Luke will have on the team.
11 Nov 2007, 14:41 pm
Tact/Yetirat
Just looking at the ‘glossery’ of the book, I think Jake has to be saluted.
But, f#ck, I am so pissed of at Cheeky and his kind trying to pull a stunt like that!
The double, two faced, back biting cheeting ba#tard!!!!
He is going down big this time, and his son Luke with him.
And hopefully that will be the end of the Watson legacy in SA rugby.
Bliksems!!!
11 Nov 2007, 14:42 pm
Calm down Pietman, take a deep breath.
11 Nov 2007, 14:42 pm
skop
I’ve never been a Jake fan, although not as rabid as yourself. The first time I really started questioning his character was when he referred to some senior players (de Wet and Joubert) as having let him down and disappointed him. Now, I can’t see players of their calibre going out of their way to personally spite Jake by losing form and playing badly. Of course their could have been some other tensions that he was referring to. I think that I mentioned in an earlier post that I believed Jake gets far too close to his players than is healthy. Gaining respect is one thing, using his abilty to give or withold personal approval amounts to an abusive personality.
11 Nov 2007, 14:46 pm
Clanerk
Thanx bro!
Will do, wife says the same here on my shoulder, when she heard me swearing on my own out here at the PC.
11 Nov 2007, 14:47 pm
Pietman, Cheeky is on the Presidents Council now. I am not kidding. So, I believe the legacy is far from dead.
11 Nov 2007, 14:52 pm
this issue was not created either by cheeky or by luke it was created and sustained through two whole years of vindictive vigorous ostricism by none other than Jake White and John Smit and eventually endorsed by the shallow individuals who call themselves sportsmen.
Sies they should be ashamed of themselves all of them.
11 Nov 2007, 14:52 pm
I’m really excited for the future, who knows where things are going?
The possible end of quota selections.
Government involvement with development at a high.
LOADS of talent coming through
A new coach, new ideas with established players and structures.
Let’s hope we go from strength to strength.
11 Nov 2007, 14:52 pm
180# ruck
Who is the Presidents’s Council, Komphela’s outfit?
If so, they have no legacy to speak of.
They haven’t done sh#te yet.
11 Nov 2007, 14:55 pm
ruck
I wonder if Stofile is just strengthening his support or whether he’s also sending a message to Cheeky to stop talking and start sorting out EP rugby?
If Cheeky did try and blackmail Jake then his integrity is in shatters. How could he do this to his own son? It’s a bit like Smuts remark that he didn’t struggle to be poor. The Springbok captaincy is not a reward for being an activist.
11 Nov 2007, 14:57 pm
Somebody, please, help me out here.
I am getting lost with all these councils involved in rugby all of a sudden.
Who is the ‘PC’ that you guys keep referring to here:
Parliamentary Committee
Provincial Council or Committee
President’s Council (this one I don’t know).
And on which of these do old Cheeky serve?
11 Nov 2007, 15:00 pm
” … do old Cheeky and Markgraaf serve…?”, I meant.
11 Nov 2007, 15:01 pm
thank you david. The truth about an individuals true character will eventually out even though they may succeed in manipulatively hoodwinking an entire nation in their quest for personal vain glory their just rewards will in the end come home to roost as I believe they have now begun to do in this charlatains case
11 Nov 2007, 15:04 pm
#184 – Possibly with Cheeky in the public eye (being on the PC and having the public watch his every move) Cheeky will be forced to sort out the EC mess. Although I had to laugh Pat de Silva the EC President, I think, says Cheeky has done LOADS of good work already – I don’t see it, do you??
Thats why I feel so sorry for Luke, between his father and the rest, he stood no chance. Betya Cheeky said something in the line of, “make my son captain and I will get you ALL the political backing you need, whatever you want….”
Pretty crappy. And now Jake is, in turn further selling the kid down the river – Sheez it sucks.
11 Nov 2007, 15:05 pm
skopskiet
Luke started his ‘big shot’ pilgrimage at Grey High in PE, tried it at Natal and then got ousted for it in CT.
He is a journeyman.
Pity, because he could have been good, looking back at his performances at Craven Week level.
But he is gone now, so say bye-bye Luke, and accept it.
He is gone.
11 Nov 2007, 15:08 pm
skopskiet = Cheeky Watson?
11 Nov 2007, 15:19 pm
gone just like his detractors white and smit, whats good for the goose is just as well good for the gander Pietman, besides neither Smit nor White could handle Watson thats why they conspired to gang up against him.
I remember well how Watson almost single handedly shone out in that sharks outfit in 2005 over in Aus and Nz he was the singular stand out player and even the Aussie and Kiwi players and scribes could not understand how come he wasn’t a bok yet, we knew why at least some of up did but they couldn’t quite fathom how come.
11 Nov 2007, 15:25 pm
191# skoppie
Yes, ‘singular’ and ‘single’, just the way you described Luke.
The boy sure is ‘single’ out there in rugb wilderness.
But old old Cheeky is probably already planning the next move.
But, please anyone.
This ‘PC’, my #185?
Who are these people and what are they about?
And how many ‘PC’s’ have we got?
11 Nov 2007, 15:26 pm
Nobody can deny that Luke had/has the talent to be a Springbok. When Jake says players didn’t want then its understandable that he didn’t pick him cause that would just disrupt the team but when he says he wasn’t good enough that is just ****…
11 Nov 2007, 15:27 pm
Jake is going to be on Carte Blanche tonight to talk about his book. With all the hype in the Sunday papers and no doubt some of the things he says tonight, I will not be surprised if the dimwits fire him before the tour to Wales.
11 Nov 2007, 15:27 pm
Pietman
The Presidents Council is the real deal, the leadership of SARU. That council which each president of a union gets a seat on, and which makes all the KEY decisions, like the hiring and firing of coaches.
Seems like Cheeky managed to wriggle his way onto this board.
11 Nov 2007, 15:30 pm
By being a political activist to you get to be on the PC?
11 Nov 2007, 15:31 pm
Tacitus
Thanks.
So you have to be president of a rugby union to get onto this thing then?
Cheeky is president of what union?
11 Nov 2007, 15:32 pm
Hi Ruck/Pietman/Tac/Cane and rest of folk with nothing better to do on a sunny sunday pm(cane excl). Cane enjoy your bikkies in the small hours.
Luke? Agree Ruck. Great player. Bad timing. Maverick persona. Not a true rugga-bugga I think. Will battle with his team-mates around the bar counter after a game. Tea is not the thirst-quencher for those occasions most times, unless you’re playing for the under 16′s.
11 Nov 2007, 15:32 pm
Pietman, I think he is considered head of EP?
11 Nov 2007, 15:32 pm
Bagel #196
No, seriously.
It bugs me how these people get elected to these ‘mega buck’ positions.
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