In Black and White
11 Nov 2007
Jake White, in his autobiography ‘In Black and White’ confirms that Luke Watson was never wanted by the Bok players.
Watson has never been initiated as a Bok player and White holds back nothing in detailing the circumstances that forced him to select Watson for one test against Samoa.
The Rapport Newspaper and Sunday Times newspaper brought exclusivity to the extracts of the book, due for release next week, and Rapport focused mostly on the Watson affair.
Both newspapers also detailed the prominent chapters in the book with White discussing political interference, transformation, player selection, the hell of 2006, the media’s role in South African rugby, the dislike for playing at Loftus among players outside of the Bulls, his relationship with John Smit and Victor Matfield, among others, and the political minefield that dogged his four year tenure.
He insists that Watson simply was never good enough and that the Watson family tried to broker a deal with him to include Luke as a Bok and be secured a future in South African rugby.
White writes his biggest regret is not beating the All Blacks in New Zealand and that would have been his greatest motivation to continue as Bok coach.
607 Comments
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11 Nov 2007, 17:05 pm
C’mon, credit where its due Tshwaneerder.
Comment by ruck : November 11, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
Goed so Dr/Prof/Me/Mev.
11 Nov 2007, 17:05 pm
Quite a backline that was, probably the ultimate backline of all time. D.Serfontein through to (was it Heunis or Pienaar, you didn’t say?)
11 Nov 2007, 17:06 pm
296# Outwide
WTF?
Het jy lus vir nonsens praat, of wat.
Do you think you would be able to get a licensed bar at an international sport stadium if it was segregated?
Think for yourself man, don’t ask me.
This is Pretoria you are talking about, not Harare.
11 Nov 2007, 17:06 pm
OutWide, the article on IOL did not mention segregated bars per se, but the poor black was kicked while whites were served after he left. Make your own conclusions.
11 Nov 2007, 17:09 pm
skopskiet
You are right.
In ’85 against the Cavaliers, it was Heunis and Wright.
Earlier, in ’81, it was Divan and Gysie (and Willie and Ian Robertson at center, not Michael and Danie).
11 Nov 2007, 17:09 pm
Pietman, ek chill soos my dogter sê, het nie ‘n clue wat die beteken mnie, maar dit klink lekker na die wyn.
Ruck, hel ek was 3 ure weg na die Somerset Mall om inkopies te gaan doen en lekker te eet en jy gaan nog steeds hier aan. Jy het stamina.
11 Nov 2007, 17:10 pm
305# Boerboel
What is this about?
I haven’t seen any news on IOL about that lately.
Was it at Loftus?
11 Nov 2007, 17:11 pm
Pietman, eintlik wag ek vir die forex mark in New York om oop te maak. Die USD/EUR gaan soos ‘n yo-yo te kere so ek maak bietjie geld.
11 Nov 2007, 17:12 pm
Pietman,
I have never been to Loftus. But thanks for confirming that because I didn’t think it would be legal. But you are right we are talking about Pretoria !!
11 Nov 2007, 17:12 pm
Ja Pietman, na ‘n sokker game. Maar onthou, dit is ‘n koerantberig.
11 Nov 2007, 17:12 pm
ja Pietman. were you there?
Watched that game.
Hamman is no shrimp. That Bishops scrum nearly made 50mph backwards but still won the game. Amazingly effective gameplan that saturday morning. Move the ball wide left. Wait for the forwards to arrive. Move same right. Repeat. And repeat again. Can’t remember how long Hamman lasted but it wasn’t long. Then his buddy got the same treatment. That’s not to say PRG were one dimensional but they were out-manoevered that day. Only loss of the season and they finsihed No1 in the land. But that game was something else. Koster was the young man who led from the front. And don’t be cynical Skop. We are going to see more of him in future. I promise you. Stop whale watching and come to the suburbs and watch the young talent to bring tears to them eyes.
11 Nov 2007, 17:13 pm
So when did they drop Divan for Wright, and did Danie only come to prominence mid eighties and not before 85?
Divan is Naas’s contemporary if I am correct and Michael, Danie, Carel were a few years younger I presume.
11 Nov 2007, 17:14 pm
Pietman gaan na iol en soek die frase “”A country united, but where to celebrate”"
11 Nov 2007, 17:16 pm
The thing that really gets to me is that SA rugby just cannot get rid of the name Andre Markgraaff.
What is it with this guy?
Whenever there is a big controversy in SA rugby his name pops up.
Then you ask yourself: what does Markgraaff have in common with Mike Stofile? Can someone please explain this to me.
11 Nov 2007, 17:17 pm
Outwide/Tassies
From what Boerboel says here, there appears to have been some incident involving a black guy getting thrown out of a bar.
Was that at Loftus/
I don’t know about particular incidents, I can only talk about my personal experiences at Loftus.
There are plenty of students pubs around there, especially at Hatfield, wtf goes down there I wouldn’t know.
I haven’t been there in a while.
But if something like that did occur, it was probably at some student joint in Hatfield.
Not a nice place, Hatfield at night.
11 Nov 2007, 17:20 pm
#311 – I was with my grandfather and uncle at that game 2. So we were ALL there?? Hell.
Tassies, these Muggles up north keep having a go at me and others like Bagel and Pietman who rave about young Nicholas. I am chuffed you say “I promise you” – exactly what I feel about the kid.
End of.
Boerboel – I’ve actually been finishing a huge presentation I’ve gotta give in Jhb next week – so I’ve got 3 compers running, and I’m working/moaning/fighting/writing/ simultaneously.
Have to finish before 7 – ‘cos then Jake is on Carte Blanche…….Book publicity tour starts…
11 Nov 2007, 17:21 pm
15.) Janjes
14.) Chavanga
13.) Titus
12.) Grant
11.) Fiji
10.) Brown
9.) Januarie
8.) Watson/Diack
7.) Louw
6.) Burger
5.) Skeate
4.) Bekker
3.) Mujati
2.) Britz
1.) Fairrera
That is the WP team Tacticus you doos
11 Nov 2007, 17:23 pm
Outwide
My apologies.
Boerboel just confirmed that something like a ‘racist brawl’ was reported in a Pta pub.
It wasn’t at the rugby, apparently some soccer post-match thing.
But in Hatfield anything is possible, it is a student’ hang-out’ and people get drunk and senseless.
11 Nov 2007, 17:24 pm
#315 – Nah, its not a pleasant place. If 4 Affies boys decide you don’t belong there, they beat you to death…..then claim that you were actually a housebreaker……
Pietman, this is the article that caused all the trouble on Friday – Poor Katman mentioned it after reading it – then all hell broke loose. Katman, correctly got pissed off when some bloggers defended the actions of the “pub” owner, saying said owner should be allowed to serve whomever he wants…….Thats why Katman got pissed off – I was also mightily pissed…..
11 Nov 2007, 17:24 pm
Pietman ek het die artikel vir jou ge-mail
11 Nov 2007, 17:26 pm
wasn’t Carel around at that time too Skop.
Hell those were mighty fine Bok sides in those day. I was a lightie and can almost remember some of the details. TV was still relatively new at that stage so one had to be pretty mobile(and wealthy) to watch most of the games back then. Remember air travel was owned by SAA and flights weren’t cheap.
11 Nov 2007, 17:26 pm
Ruck, I read that thread and I think old Katman was lambasted wrongly. I actually like Katman’s posts most of the time.
11 Nov 2007, 17:29 pm
During the past few weeks everyone has been talking about how winning the Rugby World Cup united this country again and how we must all use this victory to entrench our democracy and all those rosy things.
Granted, the Springboks win did unite us even if it was for one night.
But I was cruelly brought down to earth last weekend and reminded that as much as the rugby victory did change attitudes, it didn’t change those who don’t want to change. On Sunday, I went to Loftus Versfeld to watch the PSL match between Mamelodi Sundowns and Orlando Pirates.
What a game that was and a happy and thirsty me along with two mates took a few steps within the Loftus precinct to a fairly new establishment. It was somewhat empty with the odd sprinkling of Sundowns fans.
After our first round of drinks our waiter walked over and told us that they were closing and we should order our last round if we wished. I found that to be weird for any establishment within a sport stadium especially after such a big game and with many supporters probably wanting to drown their sorrows or celebrate their respective team’s win or loss.
As we were leaving a group of about eight people of a lighter tan or pigmentation walked in and they were served.
A few minutes later another couple walked in and they were also served and both parties seemed to entrench themselves in their seats.
To me, it’s those same people who have tended to rejoice and make a huge noise about our sports minister this week announcing a scrapping of quotas from all national teams. What incenses me is that the same people seem to think it’s a victory for those stuck in the past.
In simple terms, the minister scrapped quotas because, it is in the best interest of sport in this country that our national teams contain our best players when representing us. Transformation must start from the bottom up. Believe me, the government is in no way intending to get soft on transformation.
There are some that are embracing the change going on in this country and there are some that don’t want it at all. For those that choose not to accept what happened in 1994, no matter how hard you try to hide your true feelings they are evident in the subtle things you do.
Scrap quotas, yes, I agree.
At least we will now see where certain people stand. For those that celebrated for their own selfish reasons it won’t take long before they are exposed just as the backward attitude of the individuals who run that new, beautifully decorated establishment near Loftus.
This is the article.
11 Nov 2007, 17:31 pm
Pietman, ek sien in die Times dat hier ‘n haaiaanval in die Strand was. Hel, nou gaan ek eers bietjie uit die see uitbly. Ek is banger vir ‘n haai in Valsbaai as ‘n blou bul op Roftus.
11 Nov 2007, 17:32 pm
ruck/Boerboel
Thanks.
I am busy checking IOL, still can’t find anything.
I will check my mail now and get back to you.
Katman?
That’s another story for some other time.
That was about something else.
11 Nov 2007, 17:32 pm
Would love to know why many of the players don’t enjoy playing at loftus when playing for the Boks.
Loftus loves the Boks.
Sure,monty got booed in ’99….but he was completely and utterly pants back then.
Newlands boo’s their side weekly,the Cats and sharks have flat-track supporters who only tend to show up once their sides start winning a few games. The only seemingly “angels” are the cheetahs who’ve always been good.
As for for Jake accomodating the Bulls union. He was dumb. Every supporter rekons the player from their union is the better option. The only difference is…the bulls supporters and union where right, the alarm bells should have been ringing as far back as Currie Cup 2004 where a Springbok strengh WP side could only manage a 36-36 draw with a then….blatant Bulls B side. The honeymoon was well and truely over 5 months later…75-14. I still maintain that there is no way in hell Julies could have been selected ahead of Ettienne Botha at that time,in that form. The explanation at the time was that Botha’s defence was not good enough. Because Julies’ was?
There are numerous examples…Jake made life difficult for himself many times.
Remember when he replaced Matfield with Gerrie Britz? Something to do with attitude problems!
Another mediocre WP player for a far better Bulls player?
Jake did more than enough of his own antagonizing with the countries pre-eminent union.
PS….Keo also gave Jake White a vote of no-confidence in 2006.
11 Nov 2007, 17:32 pm
Cheers Boerboel,
I have found the article.
No worries Pietman.
11 Nov 2007, 17:34 pm
speaking of the old days, I remember being tackled by a certain Rob Louw, at school. Now that wasn’t fun. He was also quite good.
11 Nov 2007, 17:36 pm
Tacitus, if you are still around, this is specially for you. I have seen quite a few incidents at JHB International where passengers were downright rude with personnel at check-in counters. The majority wore blue bull jerseys and unfortunately were afrikaans speaking. Granted, I also saw rude english speaking people, but the blou bulle stood out, especially there pot bellies. Soos Zirk Berh sing, hier kom ‘n boeppens met ‘n mens aan.
11 Nov 2007, 17:39 pm
Boerboel
Ok, got it.
Not a Loftus pub, probably that student pub in Eastwood Str.,an old house 100 meters north of the stadium, towards the Union Buildings, the one with the flags, Vierkleur and those, flying outside the gate.
No decent person would enter there, regardless of colour.
I only know it from a distance, I used to park up the street and walk passed it on my way to the games.
11 Nov 2007, 17:42 pm
***** alive guys. You do go on about Jake White and his failings. The mans a human for gods sake. Made plenty mistakes. Will make plenty more. Promise you. Why hang the guy out to dry because he didn’t select a certain player back when, because of…
He was operating under extrodinary pressure. You try being Springbok coach. It is probably not an exageration to say that it is the most difficult job in the world. He’d probably cruise being the US president right now. HE WON THE WC. I’d say: “thanks Jake. All your sins are forgiven”. And move on. Next man!!
11 Nov 2007, 17:42 pm
Luke Watson deserves a break…leave him alone and let him play rugby.
11 Nov 2007, 17:45 pm
gotta go and watch a whale at Kalk Bay.
sien jul more skatte
11 Nov 2007, 17:49 pm
Tacitus/Skopskiet et al
How the hell can you berate White based on n extremely short precis written by Keo?
As long as White tell his story and tells thr truth who cares.
You don’t even know what he has written and in what context and you already climb into him.
Use your brains, read the book and then by all means comment.
Or is your attention span 1 minute?
This is nothing to do with tjhe Bulls. I am amazed that every Bok thread gets turned into a Bulls thread. Grow up boys!
11 Nov 2007, 17:49 pm
Boerboel/Tact
No, Katnman and I was clashing about Pierre Spies and those Afrikaans players referring to people as ‘oom’ and ‘tannie’.
And about Jaco’s freedom of his religious expression( I don’t agree with Jaco’s manner as well, incidently).
And then, what really got me going, when calling this site ‘a nest of right wingers’.
I am not a right winger, nor a racist, just for the record.
I like Katman’s comments, but I am still pissed off at him slagging Afrikaans as a language and his ‘laager mentality’ comments.
11 Nov 2007, 17:51 pm
Hallo hallo Pietman , Boerboel en die res,
Aai julle kan my Loftus broeders maar nie vat nie, maar hel man die plek moet nie aangenaam wees vir julle en ander besoekende spanne nie, ons wil he julle moet dit haat. Natuurlik vir die regte redes , maar na die game kuier goeie rugby mense mos maar lekker saam.
Julle moan nou oor Percy gebooo is toentertyd , hy was toe maar treurig. Sederdien het hy baie hard aan sy game gewerk en in die WB finaal dink ek het hy die top punt van sy loopbaan bereik, ek het selfs gewonder of hy nie gerook was die dag nie, so vreesloos het ek hom nog nooit gesien nie. A great last hoeraah.
11 Nov 2007, 17:56 pm
Hi superBul
Jy moet nou net nie al die aantuigings hier teen my en Pietman gooi nie!
Ek het vir jou ‘n mail gestuur oor my besoek aan Pelgrimsrus se wêreld verlede week. Het jy dit gekry? Mooi wêreld daar, ek wil weer gaan kuier.
11 Nov 2007, 17:58 pm
superBul
Ek is besig om Loftus te verdedig, kan jy glo!
En ek en Willie het n jaar terug al gese Percy en Bobby gaan die Bokke die WB help wen toe almal so gekla het omdat Percy kwansuis swak is onder die hoogskoppe en vir Roets aangepraat het.
OK, ek en Willie was nie heeltemal in die kol met Bobby nie, maar met Percy het ek nog al die pad bygestaan.
11 Nov 2007, 18:16 pm
Pietman nee wat ek het nie aantyging teen julle bedoel nie , maar die algemene gevoel is maar om die Bulle op te vryf , en dit werk meestal ons reageer daarop.
Alles lyk ook maar nie so lekker deesdae daar op Bloem nie, die goeie tye begin hulle ook nou arrogant maak. Wonder of hulle ook enemy nr 1 gaan word.
Ek het nie jou mail gekry nie jammer. Die veld het nou pragtig geword, ons het goeie reen gehad die laaste week, kleinerig buie , so 19 , 14, 11, 13mm maar die veld het nou mooi gebind so harde reen sal nie baie spoelskade maak nie.
11 Nov 2007, 18:19 pm
For all those A-holes who are now “against” Jake – blow me.
Jake IS, WAS and EVER WILL be the best coach this country has ever had. PERIOD.
ANY ONE of us would have walked if we found ourselves under the circumstances he was under. Don’t judge until you’ve walked a few meters in his shoes, let alone a mile.
Get real!
Bokke Onverskroke!
Jake = Coach of the year (TWICE)
11 Nov 2007, 18:21 pm
340 – if we had lost to England this blog would have been rife with calls on how SHI*T Jake is. He won the World Cup with the Best Team in the World…let him be…
Also, The Boks are PURE PEDIGREES, not like MOST of the other Rugby playing nations that bought players from other countries…
Jake rules! Kla gepraat!
11 Nov 2007, 18:21 pm
On your marks…
11 Nov 2007, 18:22 pm
get set…
11 Nov 2007, 18:22 pm
BANG !
11 Nov 2007, 18:23 pm
BokBoi
I went and checked out that Bokke Onverskrokke song on Youtube, based on some bloggers here’s recomendations (Can’t remember if it was you).
And my opinion: What a **** song. Or let me rephrase: After all the hype, what an ordinary song, suitable for a drunken, pubnight, but nothing more.
Its just that bunch of guys from the Sasol add “Ja Boet”.
Nothing special and frankly, I’m not even tempted to go and listen to it a second time.
Jeez, the kind of stuff that lonely, homesick expats get excited about.
11 Nov 2007, 18:26 pm
345 – each to his own. I loved it…made me very home sick.
11 Nov 2007, 18:27 pm
345 – and I’m far from lonely…my whole family is here, have been for over 20 years!
11 Nov 2007, 18:29 pm
Oh there are songs that would have made me homesick as well, believe me. But not that one.
It’s kind of like a Leon Schuster song – silly, yet entertaining.
11 Nov 2007, 18:31 pm
What got me most about that song was seeing ordinary people, going to watch games, celebrating together and then of course the use of kids – very smart.
11 Nov 2007, 18:42 pm
I just watched is again and you’re definitely out to lucnh chump…that song has the BOKS all over it!
Anyway, like I said – each to his own!
Out!
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