In Black and White
11 Nov 2007
Jake White, in his autobiography ‘In Black and White’ confirms that Luke Watson was never wanted by the Bok players.
Watson has never been initiated as a Bok player and White holds back nothing in detailing the circumstances that forced him to select Watson for one test against Samoa.
The Rapport Newspaper and Sunday Times newspaper brought exclusivity to the extracts of the book, due for release next week, and Rapport focused mostly on the Watson affair.
Both newspapers also detailed the prominent chapters in the book with White discussing political interference, transformation, player selection, the hell of 2006, the media’s role in South African rugby, the dislike for playing at Loftus among players outside of the Bulls, his relationship with John Smit and Victor Matfield, among others, and the political minefield that dogged his four year tenure.
He insists that Watson simply was never good enough and that the Watson family tried to broker a deal with him to include Luke as a Bok and be secured a future in South African rugby.
White writes his biggest regret is not beating the All Blacks in New Zealand and that would have been his greatest motivation to continue as Bok coach.
607 Comments
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11 Nov 2007, 20:57 pm
charo
Nobody here has suggested that Luke be captain or that criticism of Jake is part of an anti JW/JS axis. In fact, the question of whether he is a disruptive influence has also not been raised. What is being discussed is Jake’s attitude, as an adult and ex school master, concerning his public statements about a 22 year old rugby player.
11 Nov 2007, 20:58 pm
hey skopskiet – what is your relationship to the watson family? you hate jake and love luke. and you are incredibly vocal and self appreciative. are you trying to become an honarary watson?
11 Nov 2007, 20:59 pm
All the concerns raised here about Luke are BS.
Jake is the coach and he didn’t choose him…what’s the big deal – we won the worldcup with arguably WAAAAYYY BETTER players than Watson…
As a coach you’ll NEVER please everyone, so end this ***** now.
11 Nov 2007, 20:59 pm
It is quite simple if he made the Bok team on merit and played with the same squad JS had in the final he would have , in fact anybody could have.
The players in the final was by far the most representative team of the Best in the world, in fact i would at least played 7 players in a world team, no other country had that talent pool.
My 7 , Percy, Habanna, FdP, Schalk , Juan, Victor and Bakkies. O no what about OS.
11 Nov 2007, 20:59 pm
lol @ 404
11 Nov 2007, 21:01 pm
superBul, no worries, you may defend a WP player. I myself is a staunch “defender” of Wickus van Heerden
11 Nov 2007, 21:06 pm
jake white to me has never been a great coach – he is more of a manager in the soccer sense.
what i do admire about jake though is his commitment to the bok tradition, being careful about cheapening the value of the jersey, being true to his core players and sticking with a captain when his form waned.
ruck – i too was doubtful about jake and john smit when js went off the boil but all kudos to jake for keeping the faith and the vision.
skoppie – jake achieved his target in life – have you?
11 Nov 2007, 21:13 pm
I think Jake right now is coming to terms with the fact that the job that he cherished so dearly has been taken away from him.
Constructive dismissal = employer making it intolerable for employee to continue. The initiative comes from the employer.
Jake is tired. He is emotionally drained and angry. It will take some time for him to detox. For a sensitive, perceptive and generally good bloke it is always harder.
The higher the EQ the longer it takes.
But I will not change my stance on Jake. He has made mistakes in selections, but given the environment he had to work in nobody will get it right. Heyneke take note. We remain in the bush. First an Afrikaner ethnic bush now an African ethnic bush.
What matters most is that he won the RWC and by doing so carved a place out for him in history.
Yeah, the comments on Luke are wrong and out-of- character for Jake.
We will see a different man in 6 months and he is now the benchmark for SA coaches.
11 Nov 2007, 21:23 pm
To me the most overrated player is:
Ashwin Willemse
AND JAKE writes in his book he’ll play with 15 Ashwin Willemses.
11 Nov 2007, 21:30 pm
#410 – he is now the benchmark – you say.
You’re right, at least I think so…no other coach will (sadly) achieve what he has. NEVER AGAIN will this be repeated, all the wins and more importantly the duration of the tenure. NEVER AGAIN…
To get back to my opening line that I quoted from you…VERY ambiguous and ironic…
He IS THE BENCHMARK, yet we don’t have much good to say about him…Let’s just wait until the new drol of a coach is appointed – I think we’ll then appreciate what Jake did…right now he’s the whipping boy which is retarded…the mane HAS achieved!
Mark my words on this DATE – NO COACH WILL EVER ACHIEVE AGAIN IN SA…NEVER AGAIN! IN FACT, NO COACH WILL EVER COME CLOSE. MARK MY WORDS!
11 Nov 2007, 21:30 pm
tshwaneerder
Ashwin is not overated, just cursed by ongoing injuries.
11 Nov 2007, 21:33 pm
Bokboi
Your words are noted, now please stop shouting at us!
11 Nov 2007, 21:33 pm
BokBoi
I read the very same story in Rapport.
Back in 1995……………………..
11 Nov 2007, 21:34 pm
sorry for shouting…definitely not intentional, just passionate! sorry!
11 Nov 2007, 21:34 pm
BokBoi
I read the very same story in Rapport.
Back in 1999……………………..
11 Nov 2007, 21:35 pm
BokBoi
I read the very same story in Rapport.
Back in 2003……………………..
11 Nov 2007, 21:36 pm
BokBoi
I read the very same story in Rapport.
Early in 2007……………………..
11 Nov 2007, 21:37 pm
417 – what is it exactly that you think the coach of 1999 achieved? ZERO.
418 – what is it exactly that you think the coach of 2003 achieved? ZERO.
11 Nov 2007, 21:37 pm
420 – just give the new coach 6 months to get to the Tri-Nations where he’ll be dictated to from the sidelines…he’ll be gone before the competition is over.
11 Nov 2007, 21:37 pm
BokBoi
I will (if i’m alive) read the very same story in Rapport.
After the 2011 RWC……………………..
11 Nov 2007, 21:40 pm
BokBoi
This will continue and continue and continue and continue and continue and continue and continue and continue, until Markies is our coach again.
11 Nov 2007, 21:41 pm
Correct me if I’m wrong, Jake is the only coach of the modern era that has seen out his tenure…meaning he’s leaving on his own free will…
11 Nov 2007, 21:41 pm
who’s markies? Markgraaf? You’ve got to be joking dude…
11 Nov 2007, 21:44 pm
BokBoi
Take it easy mate! You were probably referring to my entry at # 408. In all fairness, some of Jake’s harshest critics have turned around and apologised on this very site.
But you know how it is. Sometimes a guy just doesn’t do it for you.
Those who think that Heyneke and Pieter deV are so much better will soon see what Jake had to contend with. I doubt that there will be apologies coming forward. The defensive types dont apologise, they just get aggressive.
But we know better. Met geweld kan jy jou vinger in jou hol afbreek…
I agree with you 100% about Jake’s achievements and my views are well documented on this site.
David
Ashwin was a huge disappointment at RWC; all those injuries dealt him a severe blow. Most NB of all his confidence was nowhere. He was a shadow of the man of 2003 or was he merely a stand-out in an otherwise k*k team?
I’ve asked another question earlier:
Why is it that when controversy is at its highest in SA rugby that the name Andre Markgraaff pops up?
11 Nov 2007, 21:44 pm
tshwaneerder,
you are a disillusioned little puppy!
markgraaf is an idiot – a dinosaur – he doesn’t belong in modern rugby, never mind democratic sa.
11 Nov 2007, 21:46 pm
Stofile wants Markies back.
11 Nov 2007, 21:47 pm
Its a watershed, the pity is this coach did achieve great heights in spite of his bigoted and personal likes and dislikes, his inability to be magnanimous and inclusive showed up his petty little childish personality, he is hardly more mature than Luke in fact I would stoop to say the opposite, he is far less mature than Luke and in fact it shows by no international country beating down his door to sign him up as their heralded coach, in spite of winning the world cup they obviously see right through his shallow thin veil of illusionary grandeur as perhaps some of us might do just the same.
11 Nov 2007, 21:48 pm
Most players dont enjoy Loftus. Most non bull supports dont enjoy loftus.
All non bull supporters dislike bull supporters
Its the way it it-its the mentality, being thrown with cans on leaving loftus is one of the reasons many supports dislike it there
11 Nov 2007, 21:48 pm
tshwaneerder,
seriously, I know you’ve got this one wrong boet.
we’ll talk again in 6 months…
Sheriff – yeah, I hear you.
11 Nov 2007, 21:51 pm
Shefiff, I could not better in words myself. A perfect summation. Jake botched. He apparently botched again tonight(didn’t see it myself) and he’ll do soagain. But he had an incredibly difficult job under extrodinarily difficult circumstances and he delivered the goods. On how he treated the Luke Watson issue, I for one, give him no credit. Very poorly managed. But generally, he delivered didn’t he. The ultimate objective, the World cup, is in the cabinet. Can’t argue with that. Can you?
11 Nov 2007, 21:52 pm
Nick Mallett on IOL:
“There is a strong clique within the board of SA Rugby, pushed by Mike Stofile, that appears to be very anti-Jake and which was determined to see the back of him. It is not difficult to figure out where it all started – Stofile is close to Andre Markgraaff.
“Markgraaff’s nose was put out of joint by Jake a couple of years ago when Jake successfully canvassed Brian van Rooyen to have him removed from his position, which amounted to a quasi director of rugby. At the time, that was a great coup on Jake’s part, but it came back to bite him later.”
Mallett believes there has been a deliberate attempt by the SA Rugby and South African Rugby Union administrations to play down White’s role in guiding the Boks to the World Cup title.
“I heard Stofile on the radio the other day running down Jake’s role. What other country would do this? It’s all about power politics. Stofile wants to unseat Oregan Hoskins as Saru president and he is trying to show a strong hand,” said Mallett
11 Nov 2007, 21:55 pm
60 Tacticus, you must be looking forward to 2008-lol U better have goof end of year bash, I am afraid:
Copy this onto you pc dairy and read it again in August 2008 :
SA will not feature in 2008 Tri-Nations
S14 Trophy will go to NZ team (is your memory that bad-SA had no competition is first 7 rounds of S14 due to kiwi teams not featuring any AB)
11 Nov 2007, 21:55 pm
TASSIES…what exactly did White do wrong? He chose NOT to select a player! That’s his choice, he’s the coach. End of Story!
11 Nov 2007, 21:56 pm
Blokes like Mike Stofile dont last very long. At least it will push Markies back for 3-5 years.
I’m reminded of a certain well-dressed gentleman that demonstrated similar characteristics. He will remain nameless for the purpose of drawing this parralel.
This gentleman was hailed as the prince of the new order. Was coincidently at Parliament one day for a totally unrelated matter and saw how the a**creepers flocked around. By then I think the said gentleman was chief whip or getting close.
This gentleman received a big discount on a vehicle.
When reports about this surfaced, this gentleman then placed a R250k ad in a newspaper to proclaim his innocence. This gentleman was found guilty in the end by a court of law.
His own arrogance will catch up with him soon.
This I will guarantee you. Date predicted 10/11/2007 by Sheriff.
11 Nov 2007, 21:57 pm
Gerhardt – are you referring to 2007 or 2008?
I have to agree – I don’t think SA will feature in 2008.
11 Nov 2007, 21:57 pm
#432
Stadig mater
Die Bulls het die vorige twee seisoene die semi’s gehaal met al die AB’s daar, ons vat dit weer volgende jaar.
11 Nov 2007, 21:59 pm
96, Bagel- yes u are right, it appears most bloggers here are from PTA, sadly using their company time to sit and chat all day, or would that be government time?-lol
11 Nov 2007, 21:59 pm
Skop, we’ll have fun on this one until you drop I guess. Yes, I agree, if I were a decision-maker on the board of say England, I’d be thinking hard on appointing JW as my next coach. Who in their sane mind, courts controversy? Jake, willingly or otherwise, courts controversy. Seems to be in the nature of the man. shoots from the hip. At least you know what he’s thinking. Bigger question is : do you like what he’s thinking?
11 Nov 2007, 21:59 pm
441 – dude, today is SUNDAY. What company time you talking about?
11 Nov 2007, 21:59 pm
Date should of course be 11/11/2007. Easy to remember nogal – with the 11 th of the 11th month.
11 Nov 2007, 22:01 pm
149- Pietman-Good post – i soooo agree with you on Markgraaf
11 Nov 2007, 22:04 pm
Its not the decision itself Bokboi, its how you execute it. He did it badly is all. It’s now come to bite him.
11 Nov 2007, 22:07 pm
I knew I should not check “quickly” what’s up on Keo… The juices are just beginning to flow.
Have to go mates, nice chatting though – exam on Wed. Eish!
11 Nov 2007, 22:07 pm
Jake is an enigma. Nobody seems to know the man(I include myself). Half for. Half against. He stuffed things up. But…..he won the World Cup. Hero. Villian. What to think? What to do? Bugger!!!!
11 Nov 2007, 22:08 pm
Cheeky Watson should not ba allowed anywhere near SARU, nor Stofile for that matter. Whatever credibility or integrity he MAY have had in pthe past has been shown up as a sham by Jakes book if he actually tried to poliyically BROKER his son into the bok team. FFS that shows a HUGE lack of respect for his son’s ability, and goes to show EXACTLY HOW MUCH he believes in selection on merit.
I would go so far as to say that if Luke Watson gets chosen now, or becomes Bok captain, I will switch allegiance to the AB’s. NO MAN is bigger thn the game.
11 Nov 2007, 22:09 pm
211 tshwaneerder :
jys verlore dude, jy het nodig dat iemand vir jou siel bid.
van watter sport praat jy nou? juksei of iets.
Roets het retire en die res van die ape wat jy noem kon nie eens bydrae om die bulle in die finaal te kry nie.
11 Nov 2007, 22:10 pm
cheers Shefiff. Good points. Enjoyed. Now study hard and don’t be tempted. It’ll cost you.
11 Nov 2007, 22:11 pm
441 bokboi I am refering to keo.co.za in general- not only todays postings-
biki imaginasie asb
11 Nov 2007, 22:13 pm
Outta here. Dodoos time. Chat nother time.
11 Nov 2007, 22:16 pm
Why dont we start a vote of no confidence campaingn in Stofile, who is obviously the instagattor of all this bad publicity around JW. See the article on Mallet at 433
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