White’s Bok woes

12 Nov 2007

Here is the full transcript of Jake White’s interview with Carte Blanche last night.

It was the match that millions gathered to watch, it was the match that every player in the Springbok squad had played their hearts out to be in, and it was the match [the final] that coach Jake White had dreamed about for 17 years.

Jake White (Springbok Coach): “We wanted to play on the Tuesday. We were so ready to play. That whole week dragged and dragged and then the 78 minutes flew by. I realised that is it. They can’t score twice. They had to score nine points and I realised that physically they couldn’t run the length of the field and back again in two minutes. I realised that we had won the World Cup. The amazing thing was that in those two minutes I thanked the coaches, I thanked the reserves, thanked the non-paying reserves, thanked the security guards, I had time to walk down the stands and get to the field. It was almost like that went in slow motion.”

Jake and the team came back with the most coveted trophy in rugby.

Euphoric South Africans hailed the sporting heroes. Eleven days later while everyone in country was still basking in the glory, Jake held a press conference to tell the world that he was quitting.

[Press Conference] Jake: “I walk away with no regrets but with plenty of sadness.”

A visibly upset Jake told the world that he had not been given the option of renewing his contract as Bok coach.

[Press Conference] Jake: “I’m not surprised because there is no history of loyalty and trust in South African Rugby.”

South African Rugby accused him of playing the victim, claiming he had missed the deadline. His job was advertised while Jake was at the World Cup. The deadline was the 19 October – the day before the Final.

Jake: “One of the things that I always realised in this job is that you are going to get fired, that’s inevitable.”

Jake has had a roller coaster ride as the Springbok Coach and now he has written a book about his rocky relationship with the SA Rugby Union.

Jake: “When I heard BA 643 to London and then to Paris, and I got on that plane and I was on my way to the World Cup, it was probably the first time I realised that I had survived. I never knew what to expect, Derek.”

He has faced accusations of racism, been threatened with dismissal a number of times, his coaching decisions questioned and he even faced attempted blackmail. It all started at the end of 2003 when Rudolph Straeuli was fired.

Derek Watts (Carte Blanche presenter): “The call asking Jake to apply for one of the most demanding and controversial coaching jobs in the world came out of the blue and strangely enough while he was at the Canberra home of a South African star who headed down under, Clyde Rathbone.”

Jake: “And it was quite ironic because I was literally on my way there to see what other opportunities there were abroad. I finished two years with the under-21s. I got the feeling that I probably wasn’t going to go any higher. So I was looking at going to get some knowledge in Australia and then maybe going to go coach in Europe.”

He had a tough task. The once mighty team was ranked sixth in the world. They had suffered a long string of defeats, been subjected to the humiliations of Kamp Staaldraad and had collapsed in the quarterfinals of 2003 World Cup. Jake had to reintroduce a culture of winning into the demoralised team.

Derek: “Jake, you couldn’t have asked for a better start, I mean, winning the Tri-Nations in 2004.”

Jake: “There’s no doubt winning the Tri-Nations and getting South Africa behind you again because we had come off the disaster of the 2003 campaign.”

Then they made a clean sweep at the International Rugby Awards, winning coach, player and team of the year. Jake was rewarded with an extension of his contract up until the 2007 World Cup.

But the honeymoon was soon over. Jake had constant rows over attempts to meddle in his team selections.

In June 2005, during the French Tour of South Africa he was ordered to substitute Schalk Burger with Solly Tyibilika. He refused.

Jake: “There was a bit of sentiment that Solly should play because he comes form that area. I said, ‘You can’t be making emotional decisions like that. We play for the South African public … you can’t leave out the player that has been voted the world’s best rugby player because you are playing in PE.’”

Derek: “So there was a crisis meeting with Bryan van Rooyen?”

Jake: “I didn’t go to that meeting. But I was told that on Sunday I was going to get fired. We played on Saturday, in fact, some of the guys got text messages from journos saying win or lose he’s gone.”

The Boks won the match and Jake stayed.

The confrontations and threats would set the tone for the next two years.

Derek: “2006, you call the year from hell?”

Jake: “That was close to it Derek, let me tell you. We lost seven test matches. We lost disastrously in Brisbane. I had never experienced that Derek. Even as a school teacher I had never lost a game by 49 points to nil.”

Derek: “You were booed?”

Jake: “That was probably the least that happened to me, being booed.”

It was the worst ever defeat for the Boks against Australia.

Jakes relationship the board had deteriorated so badly that he was being publicly criticised.

Jake: “I remember reading an article saying that the coach is in a 49 metre hole and it was written by a South African Rugby employee.”

It was in November that things hit rock bottom. After losing seven tests in a row, The Blue Bulls Rugby Union declared a vote of no confidence in Jake.

In middle of the tour Jake had to fly back from England to defend himself. He was made to wait for five hours like a naughty schoolboy outside the headmaster’s office before he faced a grilling from the presidents’ council.

Jake: “I literally flew all the way back for a 45 minute meeting. I will never forget the one president said that he goes to a lot of bars and restaurants and he just knows that the people he speaks to there don’t think John is a good captain … what do I think? I thought it was incredible that I got asked that question.”

Derek: “Jake it is funny now but at the time you must have thought that this could be the end of the road?”

Jake: “I always knew that they wanted to. But I never thought they would fire. I was always fortunate to have the players’ backing and to have the sponsors’ backing. Those were the two groups of people I had to keep happy because those are the two groups that know if you are doing your job or not.”

Derek: “And your management team?”

Jake: “There is no doubt about that. I never had to look over my shoulder to see if there were people trying to take my job or sabotage something within us.”

Derek: “What do you say to critics who say that you made all the right noises about transformation but that you didn’t deliver?”

Jake: “Well, I would say that they are living in a dream world, Derek. I picked a player of colour for every position in my four years, except flyhalf. The reality is that I have done more than any other coach has ever done in terms of being representative at test level.”

Jake was ordered to use more black players but he never had a strong pool to draw on.

Jake: “It’s very difficult at national level to make it more representative if you are not going to get people in the provinces playing there.”

Jake suspected that President Mbeki’s name was often used to pressurise him into making certain decisions.

Jake: “The reality is if our government wanted to instil quota systems, and if they wanted to make sure there was x-amount of players, it would be law. People who say that the government interferes or this person interferes, you know it is nonsense. The reality is that there are certain people that are involved in the decision making in rugby and they use the powers that they have to put pressure. They continually say that the government says or they say but nobody knows who ‘they’ are.”

He got so fed up that he made an appointment to have tea with the President to discuss his problems. But Oregan Hoskins accused him of bringing the game into disrepute. Jake was forced to cancel.

Derek: “With all the niggles and the full blown confrontations of the selection of black players, it was ironic that one of the biggest dust ups, of his four year coaching career, was over a white boy.”

In May, team manager Zola Yeye and President Oregan Hoskins announced the 46 man World Cup training squad. The only problem was that Jake had selected only 45 players. Luke Watson had been added in just before the announcement.

Derek: “How did you feel?”

Jake: “I was flipping disgusted. I was livid to be honest with you. I thought it is unbelievable how this happens in this country you know.”

Derek: “What is the history between you and Luke?”

Jake: “It’s quite simple. I don’t think he is a good rugby player. I think he is the most overrated rugby player I have seen at this level and that’s it, full-stop.”

Derek: “Jake, who were the officials putting you under this pressure?”

Jake: “Pumelela Tshume, who is the chairman of the board. Oregan Hoskins, who is the president. Mike Stofile, who is the vice president. I think there is no doubt about it looking back there was an agenda on their side because of the connections they had with his father. They felt that they had to push him to get him into a team.”

Luke’s father, Cheeky Watson, was an anti-apartheid activist in the 70s who refused to play rugby for whites’ only teams. He joined a black team and played with Zola Yeye. Today Cheeky is a business consultant with friends in high places.

Derek: “And your own team manager Zola Yeye attacked you and the two other selectors.”

Jake: “Ja, I mean he did. Zola knows the family very well. I think there is a story that he actually held the little guy when he was born. So there is a deep rooted connection there as well.”

This intervention was tame in comparison to an offer Jake apparently received a couple of months earlier from the Watson family themselves. He got called to a meeting with their lawyer.

Derek: “There were all sorts of conditions laid down. Luke will be selected for the squad. He will play in a test. He will go to the World Cup. And the bonus for you was that you would keep your job after 2007?”

Jake: “The bonus wasn’t that I would keep my job because there were no guarantees about that. The bonus was that I would go the World Cup. The bottom line was that if this doesn’t happen you might not go to the World Cup yourself. So it was a hell of a thing to hear. I thought, Where is this coming from now?’ Then as I walked away I thought, ‘What way do I go now, is it worth throwing away three-and-a-half years of work literally before a World Cup?’”

The lawyer also allegedly warned Jake that he was being watched, his phones tapped and that he was going to be linked to a ‘third force’ that supposedly ran SA Rugby.

Derek: “The biggest surprise for me was that you were prepared to accept it.”

Jake: “That was the tough thing. I went with my lawyer and afterwards at lunch I sat with him and I said, ‘Listen, what do we do now because this is big hey?’”

But the next day they withdrew the deal. Two months later Luke’s name was added to the list. He made his debut in a test against Samoa in Bloemfontein. Fifty minutes into the match Luke was injured and had to leave the field.

The matter of Luke Watson was never brought up again.

Derek: “How did the players treat him?”

Jake: “There’s one thing you can’t do and that is bullshit a rugby player. They know if they rate a guy or not. They also found it awkward because they knew under what circumstances he had come into the team. I remember Derek some of the senior players came into my room during the week and said they have got a problem because they are not going to initiate him. I said, ‘What do you mean?’ and they just said they don’t think he is worthy of getting initiated because he wasn’t picked and he got forced in and all that sort of thing.”

Derek: “What is the Springbok initiation?”

Jake: “It is not something we talk about obviously. It is an induction into the Springbok family.”

Derek: “You can’t tell us what they do?”

Jake: “No, I can’t tell you what they do. It is something that is unique to South Africa. It is basically a passing down of traditions from Doc Craven and his dog.”

Derek: “You don’t get smacked on the butt?”

Jake: “There is a little bit of that but it is nothing like playing a test match, so it’s okay.”

For once Jake’s selection of the World Cup squad in July was accepted without a murmur.

Jake: “I got the feeling that they sort of said, ‘Let him go to the World Cup and when he gets back it is finished. We are going to move. We don’t really need to be fighting with this guy too much more. We don’t really get on with him all that much. He doesn’t get on with us. So let him go to the World Cup and if he loses in the quarter-finals or the semi-finals then we are all happy. Then we move.’ They didn’t think that maybe South Africa could win the World Cup. I think that is what has happened … we came back winners. But I did say that I don’t have energy to continue on fighting with you guys for another four years.”

Rumours are flying about what Jakes next career move will be. Australia, England, Wales have all been mentioned.

Derek: “So where to now for Jake White?”

Jake: “I don’t want to go. I really would like to add to the brand over the next few years. There are some great times ahead for these players if they stick together. For the next coach I say stick to the same principle I did in my four years. You are going to get fired. If you get fired make sure you do because of the way you want to do and not the way everybody else wants you to do it. What happens is if you listen to all the other voices and it goes wrong they fire you anyway. So you might as well go to bed at night knowing you are going to get fired but it was because of what you wanted to do.”


408 Comments

  • 1.Skydiver: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:21 pm

    Dragons…very beeeg Dragons
    First time first for me!

  • 2.Big_Shark: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:28 pm

    Second

  • 3.long drop: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:30 pm

    bye bye Jake the unemployed!

  • 4.oom tas: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:34 pm

    jake if you wanted the job for the next year you should have enquired to see if you had to re apply.lets face it you did not want the job , hold your head high and move on

  • 5.cougars: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:35 pm

    This is huge, revelations at the highest – cant wait for the book – thanks for posting this for those of us overseas!

  • 6.keepin_it_real: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:35 pm

    i feel for jake and think he did a great job but i still don’t understand how he can say he never had the time to re-apply yet he found the time to finish his autobiography

  • 7.Martin: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:36 pm

    i’ll be the first to say this but here goes – Fire Heyneke Meyer!!!!!

  • 8.ufo: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:37 pm

    Derek: “What is the history between you and Luke?”

    Jake: “It’s quite simple. I don’t think he is a good rugby player. I think he is the most overrated rugby player I have seen at this level and that’s it, full-stop.”

    Very sadly, once again, Jake the Snake rears his head.

    He was asked what the history was between he and Watson and did not answer the question, he chose to slag off Watson.

    If Jake had the integrity so many people give him credit for, he would have laughed off the Watson saga because, let’s face it, Jake really did have the last laugh. Jake could have taken the high road which leads to the high moral ground, instead he has chosen the low road and gone down to the level he accuses his detractors of.

    As far as Watson is concerned, Jake White comes across as mean spirited and bitter… He’s using his newly-gained status by trying to destroy a young kid’s career… A grown man and school master behaving like this is quite sickening.

    It has become obvious that all this skullduggey of the last four years is a two way street… SARU and Jake are just as guilty as each other…

    fact seems to be that Jake just loves all the intrigue and instead of doing his utmost to improve the situation, he not only fans the flames but pours AVGAS onto them too…

    all this is about selling books… period…

    Jake is hurting his own legacy too…

    he could have always been remembered as the World Cup Winning Coach… but he just couldn’t resist going out in a blaze of bitterness which is what people will remember him for as much as the WC.

  • 9.Loosehead: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:38 pm

    Give the man his due respect, he is very honest.

  • 10.bokfan1: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:39 pm

    So sad how our game is run and Jake has very high principles and good morals to handle all he went through the way he did.

  • 11.Andre_WP: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:39 pm

    No ways in hell that our rugby will ever come right. Downhill from here onwards.

  • 12.cougars: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:40 pm

    Maybe its about time somebody stood up and pors “flames on the Avgas” instead of just letting the powers that be get away with it again

  • 13.Martin: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:41 pm

    meyer, if selected, won’t last a year especially if he has to go through the kak Jake went through.

  • 14.Steve B: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:41 pm

    Not even Chuck Norris would be brave enough to initiate Luke,especially with daddy and Zola waiting outside,ABSURD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • 15.Loosehead: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:44 pm

    I doubt if Meyer has the strength to deal with all the bullsh1t that comes with the Bok job.

  • 16.peanut: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:45 pm

    If JW was serious about wanting to stay on as Bok coach he would never have written a book slagging off his employer. You either slag off your employer and leave or shut-up and keep your job. That’s the way it works in any business.

  • 17.racheltjiedebeer: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:45 pm

    What’s up with the ‘initiation’? Players being spanked? Really? In this day & age?

  • 18.oom tas: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:46 pm

    ufo,
    jake will be remembered for winning the world cup,and not for thinking luke is a kak rugby player, we all know he luke is kak, and will for ever remember jake for winning the cup.

  • 19.Sheriff: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:49 pm

    Reading the script is actually better to get to the crux.

    Jake was visibly on the edge and emotionally drained.

    But he is not alone. The RWC is the pinnacle and it takes everything out of a coach.

    Brain Ahston, Graham Henry, Knuckles Connoly, Eddie O’ Sullivan would display similar behaviour. At least Jake has the trophy for his efforts.

    As I said – it will take some time for him to detox. Those words: “You will get fired” must be sending chills down the shortlisted 3 – Chester has no chance.

    Prediction: Meyer head coach with Gert & Allister as assistance under the banner of continuity. Gert has been very very quiet (as he repositions himself) and Allister has been dropping hints that Jake used to work under him ie he is actually on the same level (if not higher) than Jake.

  • 20.Big Hit: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:49 pm

    Jake: “It’s quite simple. I don’t think he is a good rugby player. I think he is the most overrated rugby player I have seen at this level and that’s it, full-stop.”

    hahaha, Jakes a funny guy :)

  • 21.keepin_it_real: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:50 pm

    8-ufo- u forget about how watson slagged jake off in magazines such as the sports illustrated, You etc etc. if there was all that outside pressure from everyone including the watsons dont you think jake has a right to hit back? now that he is no longer the coach??

  • 22.Isigidi: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:52 pm

    Hey, I forgot it was the Flou Bulle management that

    declared a vote of no confidence in Jake. So much

    for their opinions in future. Wonder what Heineke M

    was saying at the time?

  • 23.Big Hit: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:55 pm

    17

    You have obviously never played for a rugby team. Yes, all that stuff still goes on.

  • 24.long drop: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:56 pm

    jake honest? ha ha!

  • 25.Loosehead: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:56 pm

    Watson is a very good CC and S14 player. Two seasons ago he had a chance of making the Bok team. His last 2 seasons he has been average. We have better openside flanks than him: Schalk Burger, Hendro Scholtz, Baywatch Grobler, Jacques Botes, Wikus Van Heerden.

  • 26.tight head: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:57 pm

    ufo.
    It is the Springbok coaches job to decide who is a good rugby player.
    He is telling the truth when he says he does not think he is good.
    This is not slagging Luke off.
    This is the real world.
    Not everybody can be a Bok.
    The coach is paid a lot of money to make those decisions.

  • 27.Loosehead: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:57 pm

    long drop, why do you laugh?

  • 28.racheltjiedebeer: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 12:59 pm

    23 – Even the gorwn-ups? Professionals?

  • 29.oom tas: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:00 pm

    its obvious that luke w got where he is today because of who he knew and not how good he was on the field,lets hope for provinces sake he moves on , hopefully to japan,

  • 30.Spies_Is_King: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:01 pm

    I PVR’d it. yay.

  • 31.KWAGGA ROBERTSE: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:02 pm

    What did Luke think was going to happen after lashing out at jake??? Did he expect a pat on the back and a “skies ek was lelik met jou”

    Sy gat man….Speler van die jaar waarborg jou nie plek in enige span nie. Rugby skuld die Watsons boggerol….

    Jake: “It’s quite simple. I don’t think he is a good rugby player. I think he is the most overrated rugby player I have seen at this level and that’s it, full-stop.”

    That is his opinion finish en klaar……Who are we to judge statements by a WC winning coach?

  • 32.Big Hit: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:03 pm

    28

    ‘fraid so. Its not fun for the guy getting initiated. It especially doesn’t surprise me that SA still do it. They are one of the most old- school rugby teams in the world. Ever seen Jakes blazer?

  • 33.KWAGGA ROBERTSE: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:04 pm

    #29 Stem saam. Nou al moeg vir hom en sy Pappie se geteem..

  • 34.bryce_in_oz: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:11 pm

    The initiation ceremony is nothing more than a bit of tom-foolery incorporating a drinking game and a few rhymes, chants and comradery… as chronicled by Ian Stafford in his book ‘Play grounds of the gods’ where he spent a few days with the then no1 team in the world, Mallet’s Boks… ironically he spent most the time with none other than JW… and even then was most impressed with the man…

    Luke Watson will never be regarded as a true Springbok!

  • 35.Adman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:11 pm

    UFO, how exactly is Jake shirking the question regarding his relationship with the Watsons…..

    Only a moron would not be able to infer from that statement that there is NO relationship whatsoever apart from a normal player-coach relationship.

    The only reason it became an issue was because Jake did not think he was good enough to become a springbok and his daddy was powerful enough to say argue the point. Wonder what Willem De Waals daddy thinks or Johan Roets or Morne Steyn…all at times capable of being at least on the springbok bench.

    Fact is by and large we accept that are fringe players and understand the coaches rationale. Not with ole luke.

  • 36.cab: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:15 pm

    nice one Bryce, cut thru it a bit hey.

  • 37.bryce_in_oz: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:16 pm

    Big Hit.. the initiation ceremony is a damn sight better than a certain test team that would stand in a circle around their guitar-laden prop reciting Kenny Rogers’s ‘The Gambler’ before each RWC
    game… ROTFLMAO…

    Thats almost a scary as 50000 pot-bellied, boozed up men reciting opera every time a waif of a man boots a ball between two poles ROTFLMAO!!!

  • 38.Big Hit: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:17 pm

    SA is the home of the ‘big’ forward. It is not a surprise a smaller forward such as Luke was ignored. The same happened to Neil Back in the 90s.

  • 39.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:17 pm

    Being forced to select Solly, ahead of Schalk Burger?
    I admire Jake’s patience.
    I would have told them to f3ck off….and in the process silly old me would have lost my job in the process.
    No, Jake is a smart man, and very street wise.
    Heyneke Meyer is too soft and gullible for the ruthless ‘mob at the PC.

    Imagine, having your coach flown over in the middle of a test series in the UK, make him wait for 5 hours, and then preach to him for 45 minutes, and then put him back on the plane?
    What a morale booster!!!
    WTF was that all about?
    Definitely not about Luke Watson, I am sure.

  • 40.cab: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:18 pm

    that on the inititiation ceremony thing.

    On LW, i wont pass judgement, but i personally believe White to be a straighshooter and there is alot going on behind the scenes with that family. As for his non-slection, White gave the answer, very direct and honest, he simply does not rate him. For what it counts, I too thought there were more deserving players that were not capped, Baywatch is one.

  • 41.Pomnemisis: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:20 pm

    The ST claims Cheeky’s been co-opted to the President’s Council. Anyone know if that’s true?

  • 42.bryce_in_oz: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:23 pm

    Comment by cab : November 12, 2007 @ 1:15 pm

    Hey Cab if you can get the book the chapter on the Boks is most inciteful, all things considering now 10 years later…

    It shows just how special it was to be a part of the Boks set-up back then… and just how JW has managed to restore that pride that Mallet inspired back then… from the players song, the reciting of the Bok code of conduct mantra and the awarding of the blazer…

    Nice one Jake White!

  • 43.racheltjiedebeer: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:24 pm

    I thought Nick Mallett banned the initiation?

  • 44.Steve B: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:27 pm

    Initiation might be primitive and outdated, but it is an important facet of team building and tradition,take two of Doc Craven’s legendery team games.1,Gatpenny,participants are required to remove all clothing,resume the spider position,picck up a toothpaste lid with their A*S cheeks and race around a series of obstacles,the winner being eliminated, the loser races again 2,Soggybiscuit,requires absolute silence and enormous levels of concentration,because this is one game you don’t want to come second in….(no pun intended)

  • 45.greatest13gerber: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:27 pm

    hey

    what happen to all the feelgood from the RWC??

    any xmas parades with the Cup??

  • 46.Big Hit: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:33 pm

    43

    Straueli probably brought back a hardcore version

    44

    thats retarded. Imagine doing that ****

  • 47.Hiro: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:41 pm

    Jake you beauty….never been scared to say it as it is. To survive in the Bok job you HAVE to be a good politician too!!! The job is 50 % on the field and 50% off the field…and Jake got both spot on. Tell it like it is…he doesnt rate Luke, so doesnt pick luke and he picks the team that will win him his ultimate goal AND GUESS WHAT??? He did it!!!! Luke and cheeky and the rest of you anti jake supporters can whine as much as you want but he was a great coach who was never too scared to admit his shortcomings…hence bringing in out side coaches for advice like Eddie van Jones!!!!

    He had a dream, he set his goals, he gathered the right men around him to do it…got rid of the bad influences (As much as he could….) and won the respect of the people that mattered -the players and won the world cup!!!!!!

    JAKE YOU BEAUTY!!!! I love honesty and bluntness…..we live in an era of window dressing…people must learn to say it like it is!!!!

  • 48.ufo: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:47 pm

    Keeping it real…

    That’s the point exactly… but you keep missing it…

    Yes, he’s allowed to hit back… and that’s just what his book is about… hitting back…

    So how can he try and make out he wanted the job… He always intended to quit and used the WC and you and me to whip up as much controversy as possible… just to sell his book…

    I do not condone Watson’s SASI interview… but he’s an immature boy… Jake White is a mature man… But is my book whatever the case two wrongs don’t make a right…

    Tighthead…

    You’re quite right… but my point is that Jake was asked about his history with Watson, which frankly we would have all liked to hear from the horses mouth… Instead of enlightening us all… he chose to vent his bitterness…

    C’mon bud… this is a grown man bitter about, what by all accounts started when Watson was 18 or so… What kind of grown man is going to harbour such bitterness for so long towards a teenage boy…?

    Make’s you think… or it should!

    Adman…

    “UFO, how exactly is Jake shirking the question regarding his relationship with the Watsons…..
    Only a moron would not be able to infer from that statement that there is NO relationship whatsoever apart from a normal player-coach relationship.”

    You’re the moron bud… Watts did not ask him about his relationship with the Watsons… he asked him what was his history with Luke Watson… And he did not answer the question…

    What don’t you understand about that…?

    It’s moron’s like yourself who always revert to insults because you can’t come up with a rational response…

  • 49.Hooker2: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:50 pm

    I think that the bigger picture is what we should all be looking at. For the past ten years, as a springbok supporter, I have had many questions about team selections, provincialism, quotas etc, and all that we kept on getting from Sarfu, Saru, coaches etc was a bunch of political rhetoric. No-one has ever received the answers that we, the rugby supporters of this country want. Now finally, we have a coach who has been honest about his dealings with the powers that be, and for the first time the rugby public is hearing first hand what should have been common knowledge years ago. maybe jake should have gone quietly into the night, but the same would have happened to the next puppet that SARFU hires.
    If I were the next coach, i would ask Jake to see his contract. He had some clauses in there that saved his bacon many times when SARFU wanted him out. Well done Jake. It is about time that we, the true supporters of this game, get to hear how a few power hungry people are stuffing things up nicely for us. I personally don’t care if the new coach comes from the Bulls, Pumas or even Bolivia. If he has a vision, he must be left to nurture it even if it means losing one or two games along the line. Secondly, If quotas are to be implemented, then state very clearly that they are in place. Let’s have an understanding that the S14, Tri-nations and other internationals are going to be used for the transformation process. But please, lets select our best team for the world cup in 2011 – Black, white, blue or pink, I don’t care. Just please select the best team once every four years.

  • 50.greatest13gerber: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:53 pm

    Hiro

    love the last part..yep window dressing, 10 blacks in the match 22..window dressing!

  • 51.greatest13gerber: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:54 pm

    When exactly did Luke’s relationship with Jake change??

    Was it when Jake asked him to become a hooker?

  • 52.cab: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:55 pm

    LMAO steve B 44

  • 53.bryce_in_oz: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:57 pm

    “43

    Straueli probably brought back a hardcore version”

    Yes indeed you could call Staaldraad pretty hardcore…

    “44

    thats retarded. Imagine doing that ****”

    I’m sure StMichel did all that in his Eaton dormitory days…lol!

  • 54.leeanthonyw: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:58 pm

    Once againt the Boks go from Champs to chumps. SARU is a disgrace to rugby. The IRB should have a governing body that deals with issues like this. SARU used bully tactics to force White’s hand, in any job that is mismanagement

  • 55.PissAnt: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:58 pm

    We ask for people to speak the truth and stop BS’ing us and when they do we castrate them for it?

    UFO, I accept the fact Jake did not want to continue before the WC kicked off – the timing of having to re-apply sucked – but I can also imagine that he would have wanted to continue coaching a WC winning team with the eye on the Lions tour.

    I doubt it though.

    It is not what was done, but how it was done.

    Delaying the process for 3 weeks would have done no harm to SARU or the process, it is obvious it was a deliberate attempt from their side.

    As for Luke, I said for the last 2 years I thought he was the most overrated player. But again thats an opinion and one which I just happen to share with White.

    Again it is not Luke the player, or what was done, but how it was done forcing the player on White and his selectors and fellow Springboks.

  • 56.bcoet: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 13:59 pm

    Yes, it is true, Cheeky Watson has been co-opted to the President’s Council.
    Jake’s version about the attorney meeting with him regarding the “deal” to include Luke Watson in exchange for him keeping his job is also consistent with the facts. According to Jake he was told at the meeting that a report will be issued linking him to a “third force” in rugby. Well, that happened! A newspaper report was issued that, according to Cheeky Watson, Jake, Johan Rupert and a few businessmen were part of a “racist third force” trying to highjack rugby!

  • 57.PissAnt: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:01 pm

    bcoet,

    And its a known fact that the only people that stood behind Jake were business people and the likes of Rupert.

  • 58.Munya: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:04 pm

    55

    I totally agree with you. For once we have the coach to give us insight into the Mickey Mouse organisation we call SARU !!!

    Who is the Presidents Council anyway ?????

  • 59.greatest13gerber: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:05 pm

    PissAnt

    can you imagine the pressure on Luke now??

    Imagine him now, having to showup at STormers training with all this happening.

  • 60.Pomnemisis: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:05 pm

    Who was responsible for the “co-option”? I’m assuming it was Stofile and co, but it would be instructive to know whether Hoskins was in on it too.

  • 61.ufo: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:05 pm

    PA…

    I agree with you and think that is why this has turned out like it has…

    but this is a situation in which jake just can’t have his cake and eat it… in other words… he can’t write a book trashing his bosses (true or not) and continue coaching the Boks… no company in the world would accept that… you write a book like this and you ARE burning your bridges… Jake is wise enough to know that… so the whole charade about extending the contract was just that, a charade…

    But although Jake burned his bridges I do think he would liked to stay on for the Lion’s…

    but, you make you bed… you sleep in it…!

  • 62.ufo: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:08 pm

    PA…

    ‘nother point…

    Jake is only speaking the parts of the truth that suits him… I would respect him if he told the whole truth…

    He never brought up the fact that before the world cup he gave his consent to SARU to advertise the job…

  • 63.Ksquared: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:12 pm

    We all know that Jake had to put up with a lot of k@k during his tenure – and that really is the point – we KNOW that he had to put up with it. In my view he should have taken the high road and left certain things understated or unsaid. Instead he is choosing the venting angle which takes him to the level of his detractors.

    He is a good coach and we owe him a great deal. He handled the politics well during his tenure but now is tossing his reputation away with his lack of diplomacy.

  • 64.bcoet: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:13 pm

    SA Rugby will never get rid of the infighting and “rugby politics” as long as we keep our current rugby structures.
    In every province and in each structure you can safely bet that there will be infighting – the reason? Most of our administrators and officials are in the game for one thing and one thing only – themselves! The majority of them want to reach the top of the ladder, irrespective if they get there by stepping on people, players or by colluding with enemies – ie Stofile and Markgraaf.
    We have to drastically change the format of the President’s Council by getting ex players involved in the same way as New Zealand do. Maybe provide for each province to have an administrator and nominate an ex player on the Council?

  • 65.Staal: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:16 pm

    i will have to read the book – might not help in answering all my questions cause I’m a bit deurmekaar with all these statements.

    Hopefully will get more answers or will have more questions? :shock:

  • 66.PissAnt: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:19 pm

    Greatest I feel for Luke but the same way I feel for Jake to be honest.

    As the Afrikaans saying goes ‘Hy het n lat vir sy eie gat gepluk’ and that goes for both Jake and Luke.

    UFO he did say that in previous reports that he gave permission for them to advertise, but the argument comes from by doing that, he did not say he will not coach anymore or that he is not interested or that he now needs to re-apply.

    But after all is said and done, Jake did not want to carry on coaching before the WC started and I reckon thats not the real point or argument even from his side listening to him – his gripe is the timing and how things are done and you have to appreciate that. He just won a WC give the guy some space to enjoy that and be diplomatic about getting the new coach.

    But never in SA Rugby.

    It is a mexican stand-off, and no-one will walk away the winner.

  • 67.alf: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:21 pm

    Ek wonder na al hierdie uitlatings of Jake nog die Wallis toer gaan meemaak ?

    Ek bodoel, hy is geregtig op sy opinie en sy boek, maar sy ‘timing’ is nie lekker nie.

    Kon hy nie maar so bietjie terug gehou het tot na die Wallistoer TER WILLE VAN DIE BOKSPAN EN DIE TOER NIE ?

    Of is hy nou besig om die ‘powers’ uit te tart sodat hul hom moet uitskop en daar net nog ‘n groter aanvraag is vir sy boek ?

    Ai, ons wen die WB maar dinge lyk slegter i.p.v. beter vir ons rugby in die toekoms …

  • 68.WP Till I Die: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:22 pm

    Slicing the nose to spite the face.

    Typical SA Rugby.

  • 69.scrawl: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:23 pm

    this too shall pass

  • 70.Craig Goosen: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:27 pm

    Initiation was ‘halted’ for a while under Mallet because Thabo Manana [You remember him] said it was racist…. this initiation.

    SA will never be able to keep a good coach because of its politics. Kitch and Jake left on there terms, unfortunately Mallet got fired.

    When I was a youngster it was an honour to coach the Springboks. Sadly, I dont think its the case anymore.
    I am so passionate about the game, but wouldnt take the job under current circumstances.

  • 71.ufo: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:30 pm

    Look PA… (and all Jake supporters)

    I acknowledge that Jake was treated poorly by SARU. Of that there is no doubt. I stated (in posts on this site) when we won the World Cup that I wanted him to stay on and I think that, given the winning circumstances, SARU could have made an exception and offered Jake an extended contract…

    but (can’t remember which one… the MD whose name escapes me now… Stones…?) said that Jake “made it clear he did not want to carry on after the world cup regardless of whether we won or not…”

    fact is… with his book being published jake could never continue in the job… even if they gave it to him…

    I’m sorry it has come to this… I’ve stated that jake deserves the kudos for winning the world cup… but for me personally… this is detracting from that fine effort…

    On the questions of Luke Watson… (SASI disaster notwithstanding…) all these shenanigans appear not to have included Luke Watson… but he’s going to have to live with the ‘blame’ which is perhaps more punishment than he deserves…

  • 72.Bongani: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:33 pm

    In Jake we trusted & he delivered – WC winners medals & the No 1 rated team – legend!

    I agree with Jake, Watson is not up to international standard & not deserving of Bok colours.

  • 73.Hiro: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:35 pm

    62
    Oh my word…can you all stop whining….and I bet you UFO you cant wait to buy the book, read it, and then come on here and whine about it…He is a politician and a rugby coach!!! To survive you have to good at both and that is what he was. Besides UFO, he did admit to basically taking up the Watsons offer when this phantom lawyer from the watsons offered for him to stay and if he only wanted some of the truth out why not just omit that part…..???

    And for him to use the world cup and the controversy around it to sell his book….well duh…which sportsman dont do something great/wicked (??) and then use it to sell books!!!! (Lance Armstrong, Clive Woodward…)If you dont like the way hes done it…dont buy the book…easy hey!!!

  • 74.Sage: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:35 pm

    And the biggest travesty amongst all of this mud-slinging is that four years of hard lessons learnt, rebuilding, failures, successes, triumphs, record defeats, RWC victories, etc. are completely gone.

    Jake will not even be involved in appointing the next coach, there will be no handover, no mentoring, no advice, support, continuity, etc.

    The next poor sucker starts all over, with his own philosphies, players, ideals, dreams and hopes. He has to wade through the cesspool of SA Rugby single-handedly.

    As supporters we shouldn’t be surprised when we sink to 6th on the ratings again. We have our illustrious administrators to thank for that.

    If anyone has the ability to start a meaningful campaign to get these self-serving idiots out of rugby, you can count on my whole-hearted support.

  • 75.Big Hit: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:41 pm

    74

    That is a problem you know.

    What should’ve happened was that Jake hired Eddie as his assistant and the two of them allowed to continue on to greater success including whitewashing the Tri-Nations.

    Now they’ll be asked to play differently despite the fact that most of the squad is still there.

    The new coach has to start from scratch.

  • 76.yebo: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:42 pm

    ya luke she is not good that one. Jake is right with this one i think so. Watson hamba doos

  • 77.ufo: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:46 pm

    Hiro…

    I stated long ago on this site that, of course I would read the book…

    And of course he is entitled to use the WC to sell his book… fact is though that he is creating an unessary controversy to sell his book…

    you can say I’m whining… all I’m doing is pointing out the reality that Jake is 50:50 responsible for all this ill feeling… I’d rather moan about that than sycophantically and gullibly accept everything Jake puts out there and believe he has a halo above his head…

    I’d rather have the brains and balls to challenge thinking than coo about things like a love-sick schoolboy…

    Hiro… there’s a saying that says “Only a dead fish goes with the flow…”

    Think about it sometime when you’ve got over you adolescent infatuation..

  • 78.KWAGGA ROBERTSE: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:47 pm

    #74 Sad but true and the rest of the world is sitting giggling thier arses off………Its bloody shocking!!!!!!!!!!!

  • 79.Mephistopheles: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 14:59 pm

    Whatever the case, who’s right etc. It seems all these pre-world cup predictions about doom and gloom about a complete quota team is now gone, but only to be replaced by a new set of nonsense.

  • 80.rangerman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:02 pm

    jakes book is going to be a no.1 bestseller!
    So, lets add up the mans cred here:

    2 WC winners medals
    1 U21 WC winners medal
    Coach of the year (twice)
    Team of the year (twice)
    Tri Nations winner
    Coached two players to ‘IRB player of the year’
    …….and
    BEST SELLING AUTHOR!
    so, i guess we can all debate and rage and swim against the flow in our little blog pond, or we can join together in saying WHAT ‘n BOYKIE!
    (the rest of the world are doing it already).

  • 81.Hoops: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:03 pm

    Adam…Morne Steyen????? WTF!!!????

    I think Luke handled the whole thing wrong…had he said I will only play if Jake picks me ….Jake might of respected him more, but instead he pitched for training expecting everyone to welcome him!!!???

    Stil if you think Watson is over rated you are dillusional…like most players he has had a of season but nothing worse than what John Smit, Danie Rossow, Wickus at lions, Cronje, OS, WO(al his games) and many more has had over the time!!!

    So as to does he deserve Bok colours…I think so…..but not in the way he did!!!

  • 82.greatest13gerber: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:04 pm

    So does Luke Watson get a separate changing rooms come Stormers training??

    I kind of feel for the kid. Almost caught in the middle of all this. I hope his teammates give him support through this.

  • 83.Johannes Expatinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:04 pm

    Oom tas – japan would be good, if he walks into a coffee table there he won’t be bruising his rib again, he’d be dislocating his hip.

  • 84.Hiro: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:06 pm

    77
    Unecessary controversy? He is telling his side of the story and SARUs side just doesnt link up!! Why is it controversial if its the truth? Just coz its ruffled feathers people think its bad and maybe he should have just shut up??? Did you not hear jake last night…firstly he is leaving on his terms and thats what his advice to the next coach was too….get fired doing what YOU believe is right!!! Jake has stood his ground and delivered what the SA public wanted. A World Cup. Now he can leave anyway he wants to.

    I dont know whether it infatuation or respect as a great man once said “Its not the critic that counts, its the man thats in the arena”…and wow Jake, what an arena youve been in!!!! (ufo, its Teddy Roosevelt that said it if you were wondering…and its the shorter version…)

    I know the add ons to your witty little statement – Only the strong and dumb swim upstream and the clever and slim swim down stream. Huh???

  • 85.tight head: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:06 pm

    ufo.
    Sorry mate, you just dont get it.
    There is NO history between Jake and Luke going back to when Luke was 18.
    That is a convienient story told by Luke to try and show that the coach does not like him, and pounced upon by people like you and politicians with their own agenda.
    It is very simple, Jake does not rate him as a player, and that is all.
    There are other players as well that Jake does not rate, not only Luke.
    Jake does not have a political agenda with players, he was simply trying to keep his job and win the WC.
    Both of which he achieved!!

  • 86.Brickwall: Don't run into it!: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:10 pm

    If you guarentee that our next coach will win the WC, will you take him???????

    I’ll bloody well take him even if he swears at my mamma!!

    **** all who slate JW. I did it once so **** me toooo!!!!

    Jake White, You da man cause you braught back the cup. Watsons, look at the scoreboard!!!!

  • 87.Ksquared: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:11 pm

    #84 & #85

    If there is NO history between Jake and Luke, why did Jake have to slate him publicly on TV (and by all accounts in his book). He could’ve used words like “I had better players at my disposal” as opposed to the sour “I think he is the most overrated rugby player”.

  • 88.Brickwall: Don't run into it!: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:13 pm

    LOOK AT THE SOREBOARD!!!!!!!!

    Thats what rugby is about!!!!

  • 89.Steve B: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:13 pm

    Any truth in the rumour that Geo Cronje was approached by Cheeky to become Luke’s agent?????

  • 90.rangerman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:14 pm

    who really gives a sh#t if luke is in or out?
    and why do they give a sh#t?
    and if luke is in the team will they do more than win a world cup?
    and isnt rugby a team game?
    and what about the other 14 men on the team?
    and f#k, almal ek is nou siek en moeg van hiedie strond en k#kpraat deur al die po#pholle in ons pragtige land. we are the champs, we are the champs we are the……(fade away as i head for the pub!)

  • 91.Ksquared: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:16 pm

    # 90 Rangerman

    Bwhahahaha… have one for me!

  • 92.Big Hit: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:17 pm

    Luke should play in the Baa Baas game :)

  • 93.ufo: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:19 pm

    Hiro…

    Point is the book would’ve sold like hot-cakes anyway… and everyone could’ve read Jake’s version of things…

    Therefore, this current controversy, created by Jake is unneccessary… Jake has obviously said all he wants to in the book… so why the carefully planned media campaign…???

    Don’t give up your day job… you’ll never make it as writer…

    Tight head…

    Disagree bud… I’m not pouncing on anything… but don’t be so naive of course there’s a histroy… no rational human being bares such resentment for someone without having any interaction with them…

    It is also very convenient for Jake to dismiss that history as if it never happened, to be “pounced on by people like you and politicians with their own agenda” because it may just go someway to exlaining the bad blood…

  • 94.Hiro: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:20 pm

    #87

    Well is it a slating if its the truth in Jakes eyes?

    Lets make it simple…in fact I cant coz guess what we ALL have our opinions and guess what so does Jake!!! He believes Luke is overrated and if you are the world cup winning coach maybe there is some fact in that statement…considering he said this before he was a champion coach too.

    Luke is an individual not a team player! Besides MY opinion is that i would rather see Ollie le Roux on flank than Luke anyway!!!

  • 95.Brickwall: Don't run into it!: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:21 pm

    92

    I don’t think he will survive that game.

  • 96.greatest13gerber: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:23 pm

    well said Tighthead,

    there was the issue of Jake suggesting to Luke he change position to hooker. Luke was a little upset at that.

  • 97.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:23 pm

    And still the peasants tear into a young mans character, talent and integrity…..
    Brian Bieybuck the “attorney” has openly declared that the offer he took to Jake – was NOT of the Watsons doing………(Its in print – and an official comment by the swine)

    Believe what you all must (Those that are wrong please show youselves at a later stage for public whipping)- but I just wish there was as much fuss made when Geo Cronje refused to share a room with a team mate…..No one batted a frikkin eye, except Keo of course…

    So please remind once more, what is Luke’s crime??

    And keep on humming about Luke having no one at his capping ceremony…..Do you REALLY think the 1 or 2 Province boys OR ANYONE else for that matter WOULD HAVE GONE, when Jake was keeping a beady eye????? C’mon – anyone showing ANY support for the kid would have been SHOT, and chucked out the Bok setup……….

  • 98.Ksquared: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:26 pm

    # 94 Hiro

    I’m not discounting Jake’s right to have an opinion. All I am saying is that he could’ve been more diplomatic – play the ball not the man. If there is no animosity between him and Luke, why slate Luke publicly. Surely he also has feelings? (rhetorical question for the wise guys).

    Ever since Jake entered the scene he has been utterly diplomatic. Why is he now having a go at Luke who in the greater scheme of things is insignificant?

  • 99.Hiro: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:26 pm

    What day job? Im at school remember! Jake is my hero. I want to be like Jake when I grow up. Someone who had a dream and achieved it. Hows your dreams going ufo? Aiming for the moon or the stars are we?

  • 100.Brickwall: Don't run into it!: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:27 pm

    Ruck

    You tell me why is Luke so special? Why force to include him in a team if he was not rated by the coach or the selectors??

    Why is Luke allowed to comment on JW in public but JW are’nt???

  • 101.ufo: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:29 pm

    Tight head & G13G…

    Ksquared makes and excellent point…

    If there is no history… how come Watson is even in the book??

    As you said it’s up to Jake to say who he thinks is good enough or not…

    Well, if Watson was just not good enough, like many other players as you say, why aren’t we reading about all the other players that Jake didn’t rate…?

    why only Watson…?

    simply because… there is a history there… and jake and you can deny it… but why has jake felt the need to write about Watson… if there was nothing to write about…???

  • 102.Brickwall: Don't run into it!: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:30 pm

    Ruck

    JW is not the problem. The poeple who got Luke Watson in this mess is the loosers who forced the issue. They are the ones taking the blame for poor little Luke being slated, not Jake.

  • 103.SharkMarine: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:30 pm

    #92 Big Hit – For the Baa Baas you mean?

  • 104.David: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:31 pm

    ruck
    So I wasn’t too far off the mark about Biebuyck’s offer possibly being either his or Livingstones initiative?

  • 105.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:33 pm

    97# ruck
    You obviously didn’t read the Geo/Quinton story about the goings on in the Pta Holiday Inn that night.
    Check it out on IOL archives.
    There was a full investigation on 8 March by SARU the following year in CT.
    Geo was cleared, QD was in the wrong (too much women, wine and you know what…)
    No racism.
    It turned out that Geo actually covered up for old QD.

  • 106.greatest13gerber: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:33 pm

    Guys

    lets go back to cleebrating our RWC ??

  • 107.Big Hit: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:34 pm

    103

    Yea, for the Barbarians. Can you imagine?

  • 108.Brickwall: Don't run into it!: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:34 pm

    Ruck

    Luke lost my respect when he joined a bok squad knowing that he was not selected on merrit.

    I was one of the poeple rooting for luke at he time. BUT he should have declined when he realised that he was only a forced selection. That would have earned respect from most.

    a Real leader would have said what John Smit said to Jake in 2004, “I will be your captain for as long as I am good enough to play for the boks, but only if I am good enough”

    Luke said (by his action” hey, farking cool, If I can be a bok through a charity awarded cap, I’ll take it.

    He is not a captains or a boks arse!!!!

  • 109.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:35 pm

    What is even worse than Luke’s, is that Jake was forced to pick Solly ahead of Schalla!
    Now that is just plain nonsense, I don’t care what anyone says.

  • 110.Dawn: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:35 pm

    Will someone please buy this book and lend it to me.

  • 111.rangerman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:35 pm

    ksquared mate, i will have two for you, when i finally get outta here!!!!!!
    is there any truth to the rumour that luke is giving up rugby (now that he qualifies as previously disadvantaged) to enter the world of high finance and cash in on a few HBEE deals (honourary black economic empowerment).

  • 112.Big Hit: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:36 pm

    108

    I heard his interview on youtube about that. Basically I think he thought he deserved to picked on merit and brought up the fact that he was SA player of the year in 2006.

  • 113.Rognvald: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:38 pm

    Jake has made it easy for his opponents to cull him. His departure was,of course, as predictable as the day is long. I recall someone saying to me “you are not that well loved that anyone is going to do anything special to get what you asked for”.
    How surprising is human nature?
    Go well Jake and tell them to go and get stuffed but be certain that what you say does not impinge on your ambitions.
    There are snakes in the grass!

  • 114.Ksquared: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:39 pm

    # 110 Dawn

    I reckon if you stay plugged in to this site, just about every line will be quoted, regurgitated and debated

  • 115.greatest13gerber: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:40 pm

    didn’t Luke win Player of the year dew yrs back??

    how easy we forget

  • 116.Brickwall: Don't run into it!: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:41 pm

    Big Hit

    Calla Scholts was also the player of the year once, and yet he never became a bok.

    Even though he lost my respect. a Great Bok captain (which is what he suposedly will be)will be to proud to accept charity. Thats caracter.

  • 117.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:42 pm

    #100 – I am in NO way defending all of Lukes actions over a period of time, and on his current form/lack of he shouldn’t be a Bok. You are not hearing me.
    Before he was ever “forced” into a team, he was treated shoddily (the stage he really, on merit deserved to be there) The kid was roughshodded, end of. Jake fired the 1st shot with some very childish comments – in fact if you remember anything at all about the history – even Richie Mcaw, Oz and Kiwi coaches and commentators had challenged Jake as to why Luke wasn’t in Bok picture. As did many back home – journalists included. It was after THIS that Luke caused his own brand of trouble……Does he deserve to suffer forever because of it???? THEN WHY WASN’T GEO thrown to the wolves…and why didn’t the wolves (the same people whipping Luke now) attack Geo en masse??

    Jake White was and is a great coach – a great human being…..NO frikkin ways. I am bitterly disappointed in the manner Jake has handled the whole thing now (at this time).
    If I was the Poms’ I wouldn’t want him – to get SOOO personal, and at times aggressive about ONE individual??? Surely it makes you think…

  • 118.ufo: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:43 pm

    brickwall…

    and if Watson had refused to pitch up at training after being selected, you and a whole byunch of others would slated him for disrespecting the Bok jersey…

    remember there were the rumours that said that he said he wouldn’t play for the Boks even if selected…?

    the kid just can’t win whatever he does or did…

    thing is… Jake is retiring (in SA anyway) from a successful career and as Hiro says, even has a successful book hitting the shelves soon…

    so why go all out to destroy the career of an admittedly immature young guy just starting out in his chosen career…

    I don’t care how you all justify that.. but it just ain’t right…

  • 119.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:44 pm

    115#
    I think it was draw, Luke and Floors, 8 votes each.
    Some story about that as well on the threads here somewhere.
    But, you are right, Luke got the nod, after Floors had been announced and it was retracted, some nonsense going on there as well.
    It seems everytime Luke’s name comes up, there is some controversy.

  • 120.Dawn: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:44 pm

    Ai caramba.

  • 121.Brickwall: Don't run into it!: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:44 pm

    115 Greatest 13

    No matter how good he is, he lost my respect.

  • 122.TASSIES: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:45 pm

    I do enjoy these arguements, rational and otherwise. Wish I could resist because my sensibilities suggest that I should be working and not indulging. However!
    ufo, you make some sound judgements. But fact is, the timing of the book will improve your Xmas stocking somewhat and daresay a few friends to boot. And I wont omit Jakes bank balance. That would be avoiding the obvious. I think we call it a win-win.

  • 123.rangerman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:45 pm

    fact is,very few like luke at the moment. he is unpopular with players and fans and maybe he should just shut his trap and play rugby. his dad too. IF he performs and forces his way into the springboks (on merit) and turns into a star, we will all love him again. until then, life is tough and can get a lot tougher.
    so luke (anyone who knows him can pass this on) shut the f#ck up, cheeky you too, and play the game. time will tell.
    and by the way, craig davidson of the sharks was also a peripheral player who had a well publicised bust-up with jake and never got a look in again. a good player but maybe not good for a team?

  • 124.Brickwall: Don't run into it!: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:47 pm

    ufo

    “remember there were the rumours that said that he said he wouldn’t play for the Boks even if selected…? ”

    So he went and played for the boks when he was NOT selected. Hahahahaha!!!

  • 125.ufo: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:47 pm

    Tassies…

    I can’t wait to get my hands on it…

    :grin:

  • 126.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:47 pm

    a Real leader would have said what John Smit said to Jake in 2004, “I will be your captain for as long as I am good enough to play for the boks, but only if I am good enough”

    Brickwall, and were there not NUMEROUS periods within the 4 years when John Smit’s form was shocking………Did he refuse to play, when he was finding Daniel Vickerman 80% more than Victor or Bakkies?? Did he walk and do the honourable thing as you put it??? Of course not – Johns leadership, more than Jakes’ made us successful. Did Wynand Olivier say, “Ek is genuine die swakste speler hier……ek gaan nou die regte ding doen en loop” Of course not, and don’t tell me he was picked on merit….So why should Luke have walked or not gone to the camp??? Why is he different to Wynand, Gary Botha, Albert van der berg etc etc.

  • 127.Brickwall: Don't run into it!: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:48 pm

    UFo

    “It just ain’t right”

    Maybee you should tell that to the politicians, his DAD and uncle yehyeh!!!

    LMAO!!! It is not the public who put the poor little luke in this posission.

  • 128.David: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:49 pm

    After all the trouble with Mike Catts book and Dayglo’s comments about Ashton, I’m fairly certain that the England RFU will be having second thoughts about Jakes application. They’re not too happy about their authority being questioned either.

  • 129.tight head: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:50 pm

    ufo, Ksquared.
    You guys still dont get it.
    Jake never picked Luke.
    That is all.
    Luke and his political cronies started all the non rugby issues, not Jake.
    This is the reason why Luke is in the book and not other players.
    Luke is the only player that got his dad and the ANC to try and help him become a Bok.
    That is newsworthy!!
    The coach is paid a lot of money to decide who he will pick in his team, and it is his right to do so.
    It is a statement of opinion by the WC winning coach that Luke is over rated, so dont tell me that these words are too harsh, or not diplomatic.
    Go back and see what Luke and his dad had to say about the Springbok coach, and ask yourself if they were respectfull.
    It goes both ways.

  • 130.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:51 pm

    Brickwall
    Ek hoop net hulle hou die klong weg van die WP- kapteinskap, sodat ons weer kan aangaan in die Kaap.
    Daar is genoeg probleme in WP rugby om nog met Luke ook opgesaal te sit.
    Miskien moet hy tog maar terug OP toe….

  • 131.David: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:52 pm

    rangerman #123
    So far Luke hasn’t said a word.

  • 132.greatest13gerber: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:53 pm

    Who will have the last laugh?

  • 133.Amerifikaner: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:54 pm

    It is obvious that the PC are a bunch of silly children, so amateur still. Like flying someone home, let him wait for 5 hours and then fly him back. Haven’t they heard of video conferencing? Oh sorry that’s reality.

    I know its the act and many other acts they wanted Jake to do that really shows this is a major circus and they should really take this show on the road.

  • 134.Big Hit: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:54 pm

    From Telegraph:

    Talking point

    Saracens’ unheralded captain Neil de Kock, voted man of the match yet again yesterday, is emerging as one of the best overseas signings ever made. De Kock has transformed Saracens’ attacking play with his skills and helped bring out the best in half-back partner Glen Jackson.

    The South African, who joined the club last year, won 10 caps but with Joost van der Westhuizen at scrum-half until 2003 and Fourie du Preez now reigning supreme his big breakthrough never came. With South Africa lifting their ban on selecting overseas players, though, he could be recalled to the Springboks squad.

  • 135.ufo: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:54 pm

    rangerman…

    has Watson even opened his mouth about this latest controversy…??

    Brickwall…

    Like I said… damn if he does damned if he doesn’t…

    gentlemen…

    I’m outta here…

    closing comments… though I’m angry at jake, I feel for him too… he has done himself a disservice with his interview last night…

    yes and I feel for Watson, his SASI interview was ill considered, but it’s unfair to keep klapping him with it… he’s the biggest loser in this and that’s sad for a talented your rugby player who has got caught in the machinations of people with personal agenda’s that have nothing to do with Watson…

  • 136.Sir Watson: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:55 pm

    After all,

    Luke Watson will be Springbok for all the right reasons.

    I hate the way he was used and how he was forced to be picked but that applied to many black players like Paulse, Julies, etc. Craven used to force certain Stellenbosch players to be picked, this also includes Luyt, its nothing new to SA Rugby.

    The only problem here is that Luke is white, Luke is outspoken, and his father was a freedom fighter and also has friends in high places, due to his freedom fighting involvement.

    One thing that no-one can dispute, he is a great player, even the likes of McCaw do admit how good he is, never mind that he won Super 12 player of the year, at a very tender age.

    His form might have taken a battering off late, same as WP and Stormers, but his class is permanent.

    Looking forward to see him next year playing for the Boks, this time, merit will be ultimate, which we all know that he has it within himself to be picked on merit.

  • 137.rangerman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:56 pm

    ja david, not now he hasnt. whats he going to say anyway, “i shouldve been selected for the world cup!”. i am referring to his previous interviews, like when he said he wasnt sure if he would play for the boks even if selected etc etc.
    so jake and luke must be viewed from beginning to end.
    i dont like jakes actions that much either but jake is gone. so now is lukes chance to play his way in and not talk his way in. goes for his dad too.

  • 138.greatest13gerber: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:58 pm

    Big Hit

    such awards mean sh*t compared to S14

  • 139.TASSIES: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:58 pm

    tight head you’ll never know this as fact. Speculate by all means but don’t confuse this with fact. Doubt Luke did anything of the sort. Maybe his dad did. Maybe???
    Remember the lawyer part. Bryan Biebuck is no angel. He could put words in your mouth I’m sure. Sounds big enough.

  • 140.Brickwall: Don't run into it!: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 15:59 pm

    Ruck 126

    Thats your oppinion. Which is different from the WC winning coaches’.

    WTF are your argument? These okes you mention are’nt good enough in your opinion. If the Bok coach think they are then hell maybee he knows more than you (part of the peanutt galery)do. So, no they should not walk away when picked by the selectors and the coach.

    BUT, you bloody hell walk away if you were’nt picked by the selectors and the coach!!! Otherwise you are accepting charity. Spineless!!

    Your argument make no sense. Where do you draw the line when you have to let the players decide when or when NOT they are good enough? I thought thats what a coach are there for.

  • 141.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:00 pm

    Sheez, reading all these posts, and feeling the “aggro” – I am left wondering if the rugby administrators we currently have, aren’t perhaps the administrators WE ACTUALLY DESERVE…..

  • 142.KWAGGA ROBERTSE: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:01 pm

    Why does so many throw LW player of the year into the argument. Hougaard was the hottest player in CC a couple of years ago and where did that all end? Yes he is around and a good cc/S14 player but not a Bok……

    Why does his father do all the talking???
    Screw your nuts in and speak up Luke!! Maybe you’ll convince some that they could be wrong………just maybe…….

  • 143.rangerman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:02 pm

    ja ruckles, you are right. peace to jake and luke and cheeky and all you rugby fans.
    off to look at the ocean while i sip lager!

  • 144.SharkMarine: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:02 pm

    #136 Sir Watson – And who does he replace in the Springbok squad?

  • 145.KWAGGA ROBERTSE: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:03 pm

    Pietman jy jou mail oor ons vriendjie gekry????

  • 146.cab: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:03 pm

    well lets see what Rassie Erasmus does at WP, not a coach to be dictated to either.

  • 147.TASSIES: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:03 pm

    If Luke has the balls, he should get back to the task of playing ball(pun intended) and from my visual experience, he has the quality to play at the highest level. With the greatest respect to Jake, I think he has what it takes. I would suppose that Jakes view on him is somewhat biased by the past and recent events. We all fall into that trap from time to time.

  • 148.Big Hit: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:03 pm

    You don’t rate De Kock G13?

  • 149.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:03 pm

    136# Sir Watson
    I don’t see what Cheeky’s ‘freedom fighting’ and ‘friends in high places’ have to do with Luke’s abilities as a Springbok player..
    Or wait, maybe it has something to do with it….

  • 150.tight head: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:03 pm

    UFO.
    The only people responsible for ” destroying the career of an admittely immature young guy ” are Luke and his dad.

  • 151.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:04 pm

    Kwagga
    Noggie gekyk nie, sal netnou dankie.

  • 152.Opdiebal: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:06 pm

    Can we please now forget Jake the snake and carry on with our lives (rugby).

  • 153.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:07 pm

    #140 – Sorry Brickwall, you highlighted John Smits words, not me. I say again – Luke was damned if he did – damned if he didn’t…….At least at one stage he should have been a Bok on merit – more than I can say for a few others (now clutching WC medals…)

    Had Luke NOT pitched at that camp – well, I can already hear the bloggers…. I think it took more courage and guts to attend that Bloem camp, than just staying away. What I’m saying IS: Would ANY player turn down the shot a Bok jersey – even if they KNEW they weren’t deserving?? No – honour and accepting charity doesn’t come into it.

    And I ask again, why no performance such as this when Geo offended??

  • 154.TASSIES: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:07 pm

    bit early rangerman. Thought we were the laidback m-goats down here climbing into the 3-0-clock ‘evening’ traffic. Think I’m move to Durbs and chill.

  • 155.greatest13gerber: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:08 pm

    Big Hit

    De Kock not good enough to fetch beer at S14 level.

  • 156.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:11 pm

    Hellooooooooooo

    Pieta, jy gaan lekker pissssssed off wees sodra jy daai mailtjie kry……

    Waas Brickwaal nou heen??……… hellooooooo Brickwall, long time no see……

  • 157.Big Hit: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:11 pm

    155

    lol, doesn’t he have 10 Bok caps? He’ll be keeping the Fiji No.9 out of the team so he can’t be that bad.

  • 158.TASSIES: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:13 pm

    It always amazes me how common-old-garden decent folk can climb onto a character and desecrate/demonise him/her via a series of half-truths and speculation.

  • 159.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:13 pm

    #155 – Neil de Kock is a great scrummie, always has been, since his Settlers High School days. Joost the cart horse and ATKV representative for Tshwane and sorrounds kept him out…….Bah humbug!!! No offence intended those of sensitive nature….

    Neil was (like Brent Russell and many others) also done in here at WP – we suck 2.

  • 160.KWAGGA ROBERTSE: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:13 pm

    #156 Yes my ou mater

    Laat daai jou nie bietjie dink aan die hondjie wat sit en blaf na die bus lankal fkn verby is nie?

  • 161.Ksquared: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:14 pm

    Tight Head

    Don’t mis-read me… I am not a fan of Luke. He and his family have thrown enough stones to expect one or two to rebound and klap them. My point is that I am dissapointed in Jake as he is stooping to the same level by employing the same tactics. He too must then expect some stones to rebound and klap him.

  • 162.KWAGGA ROBERTSE: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:15 pm

    #159 Will agree on that one. De Kock was/is one of the better scrummies around…have’t realy followed his game since he moved

  • 163.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:15 pm

    Biggles, Jacob Rauluni is the other scrummie on their books??

  • 164.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:17 pm

    KWAGGA,

    Ja…. nie hondjie nie, eerder freegin sraatbrakkie……. vlooibesmette-doringhaar-skeeloog-runderpes-brak !!

    Hoop die bussie trap hom op sy rit terug…..

  • 165.greatest13gerber: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:19 pm

    #159

    well, De Kock welcome to come back home and try beating Ricky and Ruan

    you could say Fourie du Preez is the most complete halfback we had since garth Wright retired.

  • 166.KWAGGA ROBERTSE: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:19 pm

    #164 Skippertjie……..skip die gras en kuk oppie stoep

  • 167.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:20 pm

    156# GBS

    Jy meen die een oor ‘racism at Loftus’?
    Nee, vir wat sal ek my daaraan steur?
    Ek was mos darem al baie op Loftus en ek weet dis n kukstorie, niks met rugby uit te waai nie. Dit was n spul sokker dronkgatte wat verkeerde plek ingestap het.

    Ek sit nie net in die Kaap op my stoel en terugleun, teen die berg en vaskyk en ‘annoying’ stories aanmekaarslaan nie.

  • 168.Dawn: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:21 pm

    Must say those Heineken teams look like Kiwi graveyards.

    I mean Andrew Blowers, of all people.

  • 169.Tacitus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:23 pm

    Luke is k*k. Fullstop.

  • 170.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:23 pm

    Pieta,

    Ek wonder of die “Filistyn met die plakkies” al self ooit op Loftus was…….. die mak mank modderotter!

  • 171.tight head: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:23 pm

    UFO 93.
    No rational human being bares such resentment for someone without having any interaction with them.
    You talking about Lukes feelings for Jake?

    Tassies 139.
    So who is behind the political interference to select Luke, if it is not him and his dad?
    Secondly if it is not them, then they should distance themselves from this, and come out and declare that they believe in being picked fair and square, without political help.

  • 172.WP Till I Die: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:24 pm

    It’s amazing how many people suddenly support Jake White.

    Does anyone remember the situation this time last year?

    It would be interesting to go back in the keo archives, and see how many of you current bloggers called for his head then…quotes like “Jake the Snake” and “Joke White” comes to mind.

    Now suddenly he’s the best thing since sliced bread.

    Amazing how consistent SA fans are, really. And so mature, judging by some of the comments on here.

  • 173.greatest13gerber: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:24 pm

    Heineken Cup is a whos who of has beens :)

    Luke Watson won’t be saying anything. Trust me, WP would have put a gag on him.

  • 174.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:24 pm

    170# GBS
    Ek twyfel.
    Maar beter so.

  • 175.WP Till I Die: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:26 pm

    Tacitus,

    And what would your opinion of him have been had he been contracted by the Bulls after his amazing form during SA Schools and at U/19 and U/21 level?

    The question is pointless for two reasons. One, I know exactly what the answer is. Two, it’s academic because it would never have happened because of his family’s political background.

  • 176.greatest13gerber: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:26 pm

    #172

    don’t blame NTvl

    we always hated Jake and luke :)

  • 177.sparks: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:26 pm

    Good Riddance Jake

    You’s a ***** *** whining old apartheid school teacher.

    You are vindictive and you don’t deserve to be a South African Coach, You come from a long disgusting line of imperialist/colonizers.

    You dont deserve a pat on the back, a klaap its all you need.

    Wanker.

  • 178.KWAGGA ROBERTSE: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:27 pm

    #170 Paar keer fotos vannie plek gesien en luister na die kuk wat sy pelle praat

  • 179.David: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:27 pm

    BTW
    People forget that Liefling was also foistered on Jake by SARU.

  • 180.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:27 pm

    ruck…

    Agree on many things with you, but de Kock?

    Scrumhalf is the 1 area where Province struggled the last couple of years. Bolla, Niel, Delport all pretty average.

    Some outstanding scrummies around at the moment: Rory (Sharks ), Vermaak (Lions ), Heini ( Bulls ) and Falie ( Cheetahs ).

  • 181.KWAGGA ROBERTSE: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:28 pm

    #177 Waar bliksem jy nou uit??

  • 182.Dawn: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:28 pm

    Mense asseblief! Bedaar!

  • 183.Tacitus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:29 pm

    Grootblou

    Wie’s die Filistyn met die plakkies?

  • 184.tight head: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:29 pm

    Ksquared.
    I hear you and understand your point.
    I would like nothing better than to see the politics all go away and for Luke to become a great player.
    I wish him no harm.
    However I defend Jake in this matter as they started the K..K, not Jake.

  • 185.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:30 pm

    WP Till I Die,

    Ek was ene van die wat Jake kwaai gekritiseer het…… julle onthou dalk my gesegde:

    “Jake MUST Gooooooooooooooooooooooooo”

    Maar die man (Jake) het vanjaar weer breins gekry, toe hy die Media so slim gespeel het met die Lulu-sage……. en daarna toe hy die briljante move gemaak het om Eddie Van Der Jones aan te stel…….. ek het hom daarvandaan ten volle geback…. en hy het deliver…….. kudo’s vir hom….

    Ek’s nou taamlik jammer hy hou nou op by die Bokke….. ernstig !!

  • 186.robofthecape: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:30 pm

    Hi Guys
    I feel alot of you need to stop bashing players. Reading the above makes me so not proudly SA. Luke is 22 been player of the year and is one of our most tallinted players yet as people did with Percy, Smit and many more we bash them. Jake I am afraid is planting seeds and you guys are watering them. Jake does not like him and you are sheep

  • 187.greatest13gerber: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:31 pm

    #177

    and just last month you were patting him on the back for RWC??

    how quickly some of us turn Brutus.

    Who esle is holding a dagger??

  • 188.Staal: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:32 pm

    hehehehehehehe!

  • 189.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:32 pm

    WP til I Die – you’re preaching to the converted here mate….as for the peasants…..”Give them cake….” as Queen Marie would have said.

  • 190.Ig: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:33 pm

    Play nice – you don’t here me calling you an 8 x 10. Several times is the answer to your question.

  • 191.julz: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:34 pm

    Luke is a very good player. Not the best, though. I loose some respect for Jake when his comments are personal and non-civil. Very distasteful – rather just say that Luke is not his first or second choice – I have no objection to that, but references to fetching beer….

  • 192.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:34 pm

    Kwagga
    Los vir spark plug.
    Hy is n ou aanstigter hier, weet f#kkol van rugby af.
    Politieke poster op keo.

  • 193.David: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:34 pm

    When the hell is the Stormers squad being announced. I thought it was today?

  • 194.KWAGGA ROBERTSE: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:36 pm

    #192 Oooooooeen van die kukstokertjies…..

  • 195.jonnow: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:36 pm

    ruck

    you are starting to sound like Luke Watson’s mother.

  • 196.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:36 pm

    DAVID: Why would golden balls Hougaard even FEATURE in this??? Far too much fun murdering Luke………Frikkin Karaoke queens. I really can’t belive what hypocrites people can be.
    I say again, the current PC we have, is the one we deserve……………****!!!!!

  • 197.gottliep88: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:37 pm

    #164

    Niks fout met doringhaar-skeeloog-runderpes-brakke nie!

  • 198.KWAGGA ROBERTSE: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:38 pm

    #196 Ruck go read my post 142

  • 199.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:40 pm

    Hoeziiiiit! Jake White vir president!

  • 200.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:40 pm

    #195 – If I was the kids mother, I’d be horrified by some of the **** being said. I repeat: I think the kid is talented, not that he’s the best. I think he is being treated frikking unfairly and I find that tacky and American……

    Why have OTHER’s not been dealt the same “aggression” – I can think of plenty more deserving than Luke. He’s stuffed up, sure, but so has Jake. So until you tell me Jake can change water into wine….I’m entitled to find his current attack on Luke (not Cheeky and the rest) offensive.

  • 201.charo: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:41 pm

    all of us saw luke play half a game against samoa.
    don’t recall him being a stand-out player. in fact he knocked-on, turned over ball in the mauls and was generally not in the game.
    why now is half the country saying that he should be a bok – and captain nogal?

  • 202.Big Hit: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:41 pm

    168

    Our England team looked like an England graveyard but we reached the final. The Kiwi youngsters could only make the quarters.

    Blowers is only 32

  • 203.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:41 pm

    Hehehe gottliep88, sorry het ek jou hond beledig??

    Hehehe

  • 204.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:42 pm

    charo
    Howzit?
    You still on for “Twickers and the Fox”?

  • 205.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:42 pm

    Ruck, lucky luke is overrated the sooner province get another captain the better they will be.

  • 206.greatest13gerber: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:42 pm

    Bet Jake can afford to lay it all out and then take off to England, Where he be getting paided more then Hoskins and his mates.

    Jake be smoking a cigar watching the choas he started from afar. What a way to go. At least he got it off his chest!! :)

  • 207.KWAGGA ROBERTSE: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:42 pm

    #201 EXACTLY!!!!

  • 208.KWAGGA ROBERTSE: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:44 pm

    #203 DAAI HONDJIES VREET PLAKKIES OP….LIKE HULLE NIE!!!

  • 209.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:45 pm

    #198 – Het daai een gemiss. Jy is nie in die groep peasants wat koek moet kry….Jy klink te honourable om ‘n jong man se lewe so te verniel met kuk praat….net omdat hy en die coach kuk gehad het. Ek glo ook nie hy verdien on Bok te wees – maar ek moan nie daaroor nie – ek moan oor die manier wat Jake hom persoonlik lyk my wil vasvat….Dis common in my opinie.

  • 210.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:46 pm

    Wetiiiiiiiiii,

    Hey, met handbriekie gepraat…….. maar ons spekuleer wie jy nou eintlik is…….. begin die naam met ‘n “N”?

  • 211.greatest13gerber: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:46 pm

    Big Hit

    its sad, but down here..players aged 30+ never get selected at test level. Its that old **** adage of “developing for the future”(but devaluing the jersey)

  • 212.gottliep88: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:47 pm

    #203

    Ja ek het so paar jaar gelede so nommertjie by n bergie gekoop vir R30 om die arme ding te red, toe voel ek te sleg om die hondjie in die kennels te los en tot vandag vreet sy nog steeds my plakkies op (re #208)

  • 213.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:47 pm

    #201 – Charo, I don’t think anyone is saying he should be a Bok even, never mind captain. Most of us whinging, are pissed at the way Jake “got personal” and quite common in my view….Not when it all happened – but now….

  • 214.KWAGGA ROBERTSE: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:47 pm

    Dink baie van die abuse wat hy vat is a.g.v.die kuk wat sy pa saai

  • 215.KingPaul: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:47 pm

    Luke kan mos maar by sy pa se span in PE gaan speel. Dan kan hy sommer kaptein, afrigter en baloplaser wees.

  • 216.Steve B: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:50 pm

    sparks you’s(sic)sound like Brian van Rooyen!!!

  • 217.KWAGGA ROBERTSE: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:50 pm

    #212 Jy moet die blerrie ding voer ook van tyd tot tyd………he he he he he he

  • 218.Hiro: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:51 pm

    Hey Sparks, go play in the traffic and hopefully get hit by a REALLY big green BUS!!!

  • 219.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:51 pm

    KingPaul

    Wie dink jy gaan ons nuwe cappie in WP wees?

    Onthou, ek en jy het so n jaar terug oor Luke gepraat, toe ek en my pa destyds oor Luke verskil het.
    Die oukerel was kwaai erg oor Luke daai tyd.
    Hy wou my nie glo toe ek hom se die klong is kuk nie.

  • 220.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:52 pm

    I just wonder if all this would even have been in Jake’s book had we NOT won the World Cup?? – The Entire Watson chapter I mean….

  • 221.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:54 pm

    gottlieb88,

    Het die bergie plakkies gedra?

    Hehehe

  • 222.gottliep88: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:55 pm

    #217

    Nee, sy’t mos op straat groot geword, nou moet sy haar kos vang.

    #221

    Goeie punt, ek dink sy was kaalvoet…

  • 223.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:56 pm

    Pieta,

    Schalla gaan WP kaptein wees………. seriaaaaaaaas !!

  • 224.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:56 pm

    220# ruck
    It would have been worse, if we had lost the WC!
    Because Jake would then have blamed this ‘behind the scenes political in-fighting’ as a major reason for the Boks’ failure…and he would have had all the right to do so.
    I think Cheeky got off very lightly because of our victory.
    Don’t forget, he was a non-supporter of our team.

  • 225.KingPaul: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:57 pm

    Pietman
    Moeilik een daai. Jy weet ek like vir Scalla, maar ek weet nie hoe die kapteinskap hom pas nie. Schalk Brits is ‘n ander opsie, maar hy is nie verseker van sy plek in die span nie.

    Kyk, ek gaan nie soos Jake se Luke is ‘n kak speler nie. Hy is vol van homself, maar ek het hom al meer goeie games gesien speel as swak games. Sy Bok game was ‘n swak game, maar hy het ‘n paar goeie S14 games gehad, en was laas jaar nog beter. Maar na die debakel tussen hom en Jake en so dink ek dit sal beter vir hom wees as hy van provinsie verander. Miskien moet hy vir die Bulls gaan speel….

  • 226.KWAGGA ROBERTSE: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:58 pm

    Sterkte met jou plakkievreter Gottliep

    Gaan nou toer.

    cheers

  • 227.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:59 pm

    #219 – Give the captaincy to Schalk. Or maybe Jean de Villiers. Schalla might struggle with his game if captaining 2. I mean he’s all over the place, and most of the time (as a Bok at least) he’s the one standing next to the captain, being warned by the ref…..

    JEAN DE VILLIERS FOR STORMERS CAPTAIN…cool, clam and collected WITH A BRILLIANT RUGBY BRAIN..

  • 228.Big Hit: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:59 pm

    211

    Indeed Gerber. Its strange but no one likes to see 30+ aged players in the national team jersey.

    But if they’re still achieving in all the strength and fitness tests and performing on the field it means they’re good enough and with the extra experience, it means they’re even better than the younger players.

    Luke McAlistair didn’t drop the goal, but would a 32 year old Spencer (coming on for Carter’s injury)? I believe so.

  • 229.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 16:59 pm

    Koning Paulus Minimus,

    Nee man, Lulu sal definitief nie span kry by die Bulle nie……… hy moet maar terugwyk OP toe…

  • 230.Loosehead: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:00 pm

    Bring back Braam Van Straaten!

  • 231.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:00 pm

    KP
    Ek stem, weet nie van Schalla as kaptein nie.

    GBS, die kapteinskap gaan Schalla nie pas nie, dink ek.
    Daai ou speel kop onderstebo en vorentoe, hy het nie n saak met die ander manne nie!!!
    As dinge warm raak, gaan hy vergeet hy is kaptein.
    Baie soos Uli Schmidt destyds, hy dons net in.

  • 232.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:01 pm

    Schalk Brits whinges too much off the field…..Don’t think he’d instil enough discipline in the boys – they need a CALMING influence – JEAN.

  • 233.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:02 pm

    ruck#227
    Jean, yes.

  • 234.WP Till I Die: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:02 pm

    Agree on Schalk Burger not necessarily being the best choice for captain.

    I also agree with ruck’s suggestion for Jean de Villiers rather. However, who do we use until Jean’s back from injury?

  • 235.Chips: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:03 pm

    I think Corne Krige secretly works in my office in London…

  • 236.charo: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:03 pm

    # 204 yebo pietman, paid for the airticket, my lightie bought the twickers tickets so ready to rock ‘n roll.
    hopefully can meet up with 4man, taliets and the rest at the fox.
    will be in cardiff the week before as well.

  • 237.WP Till I Die: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:03 pm

    Pietman – extremely hypothetical question – and I mean extremely hypothetical.

    If, in some other alternate reality, Luke Watson played for the Bulls – do you think Tacitus would think he’s a brilliant player, deserving of a Springbok jersey?

  • 238.WP Till I Die: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:04 pm

    And I think the answer to the question in post 237 is the difference between most Bulls supporters and the other provinces’s supporters.

  • 239.gottliep88: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:05 pm

    Agree on Jean – will he be fit for the start of the S14 though?

  • 240.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:07 pm

    #234 – Jean will be back before Super 14 starts. he’s doing conditioning already I believe.
    Jean like Mortlock will be a great captain from “centre field”…

    They think…they scan…they get to see the biger picture. I am not a real fan of a captain who has his head shived between some other prats shoulders most of the game…..(Forwards….)

    Only joking…Jean just makes RUGBY sense as Cappie. Loved by coaches, fans, players, media and he never gets trashy and common….(except if you see him out jolling at times…)

  • 241.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:07 pm

    WPTID

    Of course Tact would have supported Luke.
    He will support anything in blue, even a ‘blue Monday’!

  • 242.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:07 pm

    Hey ruck, stop taking my ideas and making it your own! I told you last week that Jean should captain the Stormers!

  • 243.David: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:08 pm

    ruck
    I’d probably go for one tough buggar like Tiaan Liebenburg! Or even Jake Boer if he’s fit and available.

  • 244.charo: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:08 pm

    ruck,

    kudos to you – your defence of luke has been honourable and unwaivering throughout.

  • 245.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:09 pm

    David
    Strangely enough, I also thought of Tiaan.

  • 246.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:10 pm

    #241 – LOL. Me thinks the Bulls and their kin are in for quite a few BLUE MONDAYS next season….and Blue Saturday’s and Blue Sundays and a Blue Friday or two…..But, as you say, if its blue they’re happy…

  • 247.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:11 pm

    ruck…

    I have copy right on that idea!

  • 248.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:12 pm

    Pieta / Koning Paulus,

    Ek sê nie Schalla moet kaptein wees nie, ek sê Rassie gaan hom kies as cappie…….. vra vir Ex Player……… hy’s mos tjomme met die Burgers………

  • 249.WP Till I Die: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:12 pm

    “Blou Jobs” as my brother used to call ‘em…

  • 250.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:13 pm

    #242 – Yay – I have been a Jean for Stormers captain fan in between all his injuries for ages…. And yes, I would have chosen Jean over Luke anyday of the week.
    DAVID: Tiaan might not be the 1st choice hooker…Jake Boer – hell don’t know, but will he be 1ST choice flank????

  • 251.tight head: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:14 pm

    Jake White does not have a political agenda.
    Jake white never picked a fight with the Watsons.
    The Watsons attacked Jake White.
    Now that the man defends himself, he is accused of bad manners.
    No player should have to go through the criticism that Luke has to handle.
    However Luke and his father started the trouble and have to accept the consequences of their actions.
    Unfortunately Luke will be judged by his peers, the other top class players in SA, and so far he has not done much to win friends among the players.
    It is a team game where you have to EARN the respect of your team mates.
    If you dont have that, then it is better to go play tennis.

  • 252.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:15 pm

    ruck
    Isn’t Jake Boer a ‘front rower’?

  • 253.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:15 pm

    #247 – Nee Tinus, Jean is my kaptein al jare.
    Schalla is die popular kaptein – Jean is die WARE FAN se kaptein…vra net hier in die Kaap rond. Ek smaak nie van ‘n forward wat kaptein is…verkies ‘n agterlyn speler. Jean is lankal koning hier onder…..

  • 254.WP Till I Die: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:17 pm

    tight head

    And funnily enough, “he had the respect” of enough players in 2006 to be deadlocked with Kabamba Floors for Players’ Player of the Year award. It was only Oregan Hoskin’s deciding vote that made Floors win it (according to the official SARU version).

    According to Heymans, chairperson of SARPA, Luke had won by Friday (but then White and Hoskins intervened according to keo), the contest was extended to end of Monday, and by then Floors had won by 8 votes.

    Funny that, eh?

  • 255.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:18 pm

    ruck…

    What about Robbie Diack?

  • 256.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:18 pm

    vaskop
    Luke was dieselfde op Grey, PE.
    Onpopuler.
    Die outjie het dit nou maar in hom om te agiteer, sonder dat hy iets se.
    Kyk sy liggaamshouding, dit se alles.

  • 257.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:18 pm

    #252 – No, he’s a back row forward. He did feature in the Currie cup a teeny bit. Pretty good one, but son’t think he is going to start. He was the player of the year in the NORTH 2003 – so he has the experience and skill – but I still wouldn;t go for a forward as captain – not for us at least.

  • 258.David: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:19 pm

    ruck
    I’d prefer my captain to be closer to the pack than 12. I also haven’t really noticed much in the way of leadership skills. Previously I would have suggested Gerrie Britz. I was never a fan of Luke as Stormers captain, he has too much of the earnest schoolboy approach. I’d much have preferred an older captain to provide authority and stability.

  • 259.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:20 pm

    Pietman…

    2 varke gevang!!!

  • 260.WP Till I Die: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:20 pm

    Remember, that award is decided based on SMS’s sent in by players contracted by SARPA (South African Rugby Players’ Association)…

    Don’t tell me Cheeky and co somehow exerted pressure on that many rugby players to vote for Luke…

    When Jake heard on the Friday (according to sources in SARU, quoted by keo last year) that Luke was about to win Players’ Player of the Year award, he popped a gasket, to say the least. How would that look, consistenly refusing to select a player who had just been appointed Players’ Player of the Year?

    So he intervened. Strings were pulled – the voting was extended over the weekend – and Hoskins cast the deciding vote.

  • 261.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:21 pm

    WP
    I thought that Luke won eventually, after that ‘balls up’?
    Or was it Floors?

  • 262.mikegee: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:21 pm

    ummmm

    Who changed the rules for autobiographies and said you had to say nice things about everybody? It’s like a d**khead on the radio this morning complaining that the peronages attacked had not had right of reply. Like the book is a newapaper or something. F**kwit!

    And Cheeky Watson a freedom fighter? Gimme a break! Opportunist maybe, but Che Guevara he ain’t!

  • 263.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:22 pm

    #255 – Not enough experience at this stage – I do think Diack will be a captain for the future. He’s gotta find his “feet” at this level 1st. Jean is the man – end of, there is no one else suitably qualified and in possession of all the qualities that make a great captain. Tinus, you agree, you even mentioned it….JEAN DE VILLIERS. If he gets injured AGAIN we’re stuffed…..then Schalla can have a pop.

  • 264.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:24 pm

    #263 – Follow on: These ones can all captain until young Nicholas Koster is ready to take centre stage…..If all goes to plan, he will Captain Province, the Stormers and the Boks….SMOKE THAT TACITUS…

  • 265.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:24 pm

    Het ook gedink hy is ‘n stut!

  • 266.WP Till I Die: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:27 pm

    Pietman,

    No, Kabamba Floors definitely won.

    On Friday, 26 October 2006 Luke Watson was declared the winner and his name revealed to the media.

    According to SARU sources (quoted by keo) White and Hoskins then demanded a recount. SARPA players were then notified on Monday, 29 October 2006 that voting was still open.

    When voting closed on Monday at 5pm, Floors was ahead by 8 votes (according to Heymans, chairperson of SARPA).

    According to Hoskins and SARU, Watson and Floors were deadlocked with equal votes on Monday evening. Hoskins then conferred with Stofile and Johan Prinsloo of SARU, and decided to enforce his casting vote, and consequently Floors was appointed the winner.

    Personally, in a case like that, I felt the award should have been shared. The award should not be chosen by one of the administrators – it’s a bloody players’ award.

  • 267.stavros: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:27 pm

    #251

    I wouldn’t blame Luke. He’s kept out of it. Yes, he should have turned down the “offer” to play against Samoa. But he has kept his opinions of Jake to himself.

    Cheeky? Now there is a man who has not.

    This is between Cheeky and Jake, and both men have failed to protect and respect young Luke.

    I cant see how the player of the year is also the most over rated player… I mean come on, over rated maybe, but the “MOST” over rated player? That’s just b0llocks. It’s a mean thing to say and it is said because the man who said it, wants it to cut like a knife.

    Two adults, Cheeky and Jake have pushed this too far now. Neither have behaved like adults, and both ought to shut it.

    Jake should have kept this about the politics, and not made his personal feelings of the player public knowledge.

    A little respect for Luke would have been received well, like “he’s not in my top five 6s or 7s”. But “most over rated player”?

    Meisikind? You telling me he DESERVED his jersey?

  • 268.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:27 pm

    Tinus
    Ja, as ons van dieselfde ou praat.
    Boer is n stut, sover ek weet.
    Was eers by die Bulle.

  • 269.WP Till I Die: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:28 pm

    Wait, Pietman, here’s the original keo article:

    “WATSON FLOORED IN VOTING DRAMA October 31st, 2006

    Luke Watson was on Monday morning confirmed as the SA ‘Players player of the year’, but in a day of drama was controversially replaced by Kabamba Floors.

    SARU president Oregan Hoskins confirmed his leadership gave the award to Floors amid another day of contradictions and embarrassment, with South African Rugby Players Association chairman Piet Heymans saying Floors had won by eight votes.

    Effectively, the leadership of SARU has given the Players Player of the Year award, which in itself is a contradiction. Why can’t the award be shared when the Currie Cup was shared?

    Keo.co.za, through written correspondence, received information that Bok coach Jake White and Hoskins had allegedly intervened when Watson’s name was sent through to SuperSport as the winner and that a recount was demanded through the South African Rugby Players Association, who organised the vote.

    SARPA chairman Heymans admitted to Keo.co.za’s Jon Cardinelli that Watson had been confirmed as the winner on Monday, but denied any interference from the Bok coach.

    Heymans told Cardinelli that SARU representative Jenny Wentzel had mistakingly sent SuperSport Watson’s name as the winner on the Friday. Heymans said Watson was ahead in the voting, but that voting was only closed by Monday 5pm and that Wentzel had made an error in confirming Watson as the winner.

    Heymans when further questioned on the coincidence of the information and his account added that Floors and Watson were equal at noon on Monday but that the Free State player won by eight votes at the cut-off time of 17.00.

    Heymans, as head of the player’s union, sits on the SARU board of directors.

    When asked if the voting figures could be verified through an audit to establish credibility and ensure that no player could vote more than once, Heymans said this information would not be made available to the media or the public.

    He added that Flashworks collected the information by way of SMS but that there was no independent audit of the voting.

    SARU, however, confirmed through written correspondence that its leadership had made the decision to give the award to Floors on Tuesday morning, despite Heymans telling this website Floors was an outright winner on Monday evening (by eight votes).

    Email correspondence to Keo.co.za read: “I (Mr. Hoskins) was phoned on Tuesday and asked to deliver a casting vote for the SA Rugby Players’ Player of the Year Award as the SARPA voting process had delivered a stalemate between Luke Watson and Kabamba Floors.

    “I was in PE at the time to attend a meeting and with me was the SARU Deputy Mr. Mike Stofile and CEO Johan Prinsloo. I discussed the matter with them and we all agreed that the prize must be awarded to Kabamba Floors. I cannot speak on behalf of other people (as mentioned in your e-mail),” said Hoskins.

    Keo.co.za’s enquiries to players about the voting revealed that players were asked to SMS their player of the year award last week, but were sent reminders on Monday to say they could still vote. No cut off time was given.

    Keo.co.za’s original information was that only 200 of the 400 players had voted by Friday evening – and the argument was that this was not representative of all the players. A further request for votes was asked for on Monday – and it is here that Floors supposedly edged ahead.

    Vusi Kama, spokesperson of the Bok squad, was contacted at 17.00 for White’s comments. White was in a team meeting and Kama said the coach would respond this evening.

    Kama was contacted at 22.05 for White’s response and he said the coach was still in meetings and that there was unlikely to be a response until the morning. Kama confirmed the meeting was in relation to who would be the Bok manager.

    Watson, when contacted by Keo.co.za, said the only talking he could do was on the field in 2007. He remained confident his time would come by way of consistent performances.

    Watson, who has never made White’s Bok squad, has also been nominated for the Player of the Year award, the Currie Cup player of the year award and the Super 14 player of the year award.

    However, it is believed that he has not won anything amid fears of further embarrassment to the national coach, who refuses to acknowledge Watson’s worth as a player.”

  • 270.rex: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:29 pm

    Coaches always rate and don’t rate players. It may be painful for LW to hear that JW does not rate him. His response will be interesting.

    There was a time when Monty was not rated and his response was to go and get better.

    If LW does have what it takes, it will be up to him to prove JW wrong.

  • 271.tight head: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:30 pm

    wp till i die.
    Also funny that he was not initiated like every other Springbok before him, and that he was capped alone.

    The unfortunate fact is that he has some things to work on outside his game, if he wants to succeed.
    I wish him no harm, but as a result of what has happened he needs to have a long think about how he will conduct himself in the future.

  • 272.Pietman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:30 pm

    WP Thanx.
    I see Stavros has the same problem I had, he also thinks that Luke won it(#267).

  • 273.WP Till I Die: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:31 pm

    And another bit added by Simon:

    “Piece updated to include this:

    SARU, however, confirmed through written correspondence that its leadership had made the decision to give the award to Floors.

    Email correspondence to Keo.co.za read: “I (Mr. Hoskins) was phoned on Tuesday and asked to deliver a casting vote for the SA Rugby Players’ Player of the Year Award as the SARPA voting process had delivered a stalemate between Luke Watson and Kabamba Floors.

    “I was in PE at the time to attend a meeting and with me was the SARU Deputy Mr. Mike Stofile and CEO Johan Prinsloo. I discussed the matter with them and we all agreed that the prize must be awarded to Kabamba Floors. I cannot speak on behalf of other people (as mentioned in your e-mail),” said Hoskins.”

  • 274.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:31 pm

    WP #237…

    Nou kom en bederf jy weer ons vriendskap, was nou net op pad vir ‘n bier!

    My oom reken nog steeds Victor Matfield hoort nie in die Bok span nie en verkondig nog steeds Barry is die beste senter ter wereld!

    Kry eenogige ondersteuners oral!

  • 275.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:33 pm

    Pietman en Tinus, ek het ook gedink hy was ‘n stut, vroer in die jaar – tot iemand my verkeerd gewys het. Hy is ‘n agterry man – die een wat ons hier het.

  • 276.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:33 pm

    WP…

    My oom is ‘n WP man.

  • 277.rex: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:34 pm

    Having said that; perhaps JW could have been more diplomatic in the expression of his feelings about LW’s capability.

    Stavros #267 definitely has a point. JW may think it but he does not need to say it. Having said that, JW is not God. He is however a man who has been pushed beyond the limit and it would be surprising if he did not wish to retaliate a bit. But he could have taken his cue from Madiba, politley said his piece, and walked away.

  • 278.WP Till I Die: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:37 pm

    Tinus,

    Nee kyk, ek stem, mens kry eenogige ondersteuners orals.

    Maar jy moet saamstem, Tacitus vat die koek…

  • 279.tight head: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:37 pm

    Pietman.
    Boer is a flanker.
    Highly rated in the NH, so much so that there was a time where Jake White was considering him for selection.

  • 280.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:37 pm

    DOB 1st Nov 1975
    Birthplace Cape Town, S Africa
    Height 1.88 m
    Weight 108 kg
    Position Flanker

    JAKE BOERS STATS. He spent 10 years at Gloucester, led them on a glorious path – then on 25 March, back to US…I promise you boys he’s a flanker.

  • 281.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:38 pm

    ruck…

    Iets nuuts geleer. WP het sommer ‘n klomp goeie loosies nou!

  • 282.Bod: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:40 pm

    How can Schalk Brits ever be considered as a Province captain when even his personal sponsors have something against him.

    I drove past him the other day in his sponsored car, which was… wait for it…. a Ford Mondeo!!

    How can a man of honour, integrity with leadership aspirations even think about accepting a frikking ladybird/bug as a sponsored car

  • 283.WP Till I Die: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:40 pm

    En Tinus, jou oom (jammer om te sê) het ‘n vreemde opinie as hy dink Matfield hoort nie in die Bokspan en dat hy dink Barry is die beste senter ooit… :-)

    Hier in die Kaap is ons net te bly dat Barry weg is – die lopende geelkaart.

  • 284.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:41 pm

    Pietman and Tinus – Go to w w w jakeboer dot com and read how highly he was rated as a captain. Gloucester wept when he left. I still don;t know if he is going to be 1st choice down here – so I can’t see him captaining.

  • 285.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:42 pm

    WP…

    Kan mos nou nie teen tacticus gaan nie, ons Bulle staan saam! Hehehe!

    ruck…

    His build is ideal for a prop as well. Os is 1.90m and 124kg. Does he play open side flank?

  • 286.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:43 pm

    #283 – Barry and Nel separated at birth….BUT, Barry had some crackin games for us and the Boks….Brian Lima’s backside – Barry COULD tackle. He and Joubert were also treated a touch “nastily” by Mr White – if you all recall. Sure, their form went south – but Jake didn’t exactly “stick to his players” the way he professed he always did…..

  • 287.leegman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:45 pm

    ag shame Jake White, cry me a river, you boring sensationalist.

  • 288.WP Till I Die: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:45 pm

    ruck, I think you mean www jakeboer co uk

  • 289.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:46 pm

    Pieta,

    Julle raak deurmekaar tussen Piet Boer en Jake Boer…….. Piet Boer was / is ‘n stut…….. Jake Boer is ‘n loossie……

  • 290.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:46 pm

    ruck…

    Boer as captain might not be a bad idea, new coach, new captain!

    WP…

    Wag vir die een… Hy reken Habana is ‘n “flash in the pan”!!!

  • 291.racheltjiedebeer: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:47 pm

    Jake Boer het n paar goeie seisoene vir Glos gehad, maar hy is aan die verkeerde kant van 30.

  • 292.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:47 pm

    #281 – Tinus, and the other day when I said we had LOADS of loosie talent – the heavens wept and the Bulls bloggers destroyed me…….Now please inform your illiterate brethren that I was correct and actually do make valid contributions (every now and again…when Tacitus isn’t forcing me to act like a peasant……)

  • 293.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:48 pm

    Tinus,

    Jou Oom rook Boom……… hehehe……. sê vir hom ek sê so…….. hehehe

  • 294.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:49 pm

    ruck…

    ‘n Boer to captain WP!!! BAAAWAAAHAAAWAAA!!!!!!

  • 295.stavros: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:50 pm

    Pietman

    I’m reasonably certain he got player of the year 2005, not so?

  • 296.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:51 pm

    ruck…

    A Boer named Jake!!! BAAAWAAAHAAA!!!!!

  • 297.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:52 pm

    An OLD Keo article on Jake Boer and Jake White…

    March 28th, 2006
    Jake White will give Jake Boer a chance to show he can dance on the biggest stage when the Springboks play the World XV in Johannesburg.

    But Boer, South African born and consistently one of Gloucester’s stars for the last five years, won’t be playing for the Springboks. He will be in the World XV team.

    White explained the selection to Keo.co.za: “His is a name I hear a lot of. Players speak highly of him. Coaches applaud his efforts, but all I have to go on is his Premiership form. There is no doubt he is a quality loose-forward, but is he as good or better than what I have got. Would he make the side ahead of Schalk Burger, Juan Smith, AJ Venter, Joe van Niekerk, Pedrie Wannenburg, Solly Tyibilika … Wikus van Heerden. I can’t give you that answer. The best way is to compare apples with apples and put him against these guys and the World XV game gives me that opportunity.

    “I was called to find out whether I had any specific player I wanted to be involved in the World XV and I said I wanted Jake Boer to play against us. It will be an opportunity for him to push for greater recognition when it comes to determining the make-up of the World Cup squad, which will be played in northern hemisphere conditions. It is a chance for him and not a guarantee of anything. But as I have said all along I will explore every avenue to get the right squad for France 2007.”

    Boer was initially a target of Rudolf Straeuli prior to the 2003 World Cup but negotiations fell through without Straeuli and Boer ever meeting.

    White also confirmed he would consider Breyton Paulse for the 2006 international season.

    “I believe he will be signing for Western Province again in June and he will be a part of our plans. He has test experience I won’t overlook and he’s always produced for me. He will feature in the squad, but again it is not a guarantee that he will start.”

  • 298.stavros: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:53 pm

    Watson got the S14 player of the year, and Floors got the “Players Player of the year”.

  • 299.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:55 pm

    GBS…

    Ek dink hy doen! Hehe!

    ruck…

    Will inform all my Bulls buddies! Agree that Barry/Joubert combo was a good one. Can u believe Joubert is only 26?

  • 300.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:55 pm

    #290 – I really really don’t think Jake Boer will be first choice. Unlike John Smit – a captain should ALWAYS be the best in his position….ONLY JOKING pilgrims….JEAN JEAN JEAN
    Pity we couldn’t get Piet Boer to scrum down for us…….We are still running pretty low on fuel in the front row.

  • 301.WP Till I Die: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:58 pm

    Tinus,

    Kyk, ne, Marius Joubert kom nou lekker terug en wys ‘n middelvinger vir WP, **** :-)

    Sy vorm het ongelooflik verbeter in die Vrystaat. Definitief een van die beste senters van die Currie Cup.

  • 302.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 17:58 pm

    The moment the WP sort out their tight 5 is the moment they’ll be a force again……..

  • 303.WP Till I Die: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:01 pm

    OK, boys and gal, there are a few beers calling my name. Cheers.

  • 304.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:01 pm

    #301 – Marius has always been a class act, even when he played for Boland as a real youngster.

    Another one Big Hit will report back on for us.. Biggles is like Telkom – Keeping you in touch…..(with all your lost rugby talent…….)

  • 305.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:01 pm

    Excuse me for going off the point for a second.

    Deon Maas ( Kyknet Idols judge ) said in a Rapport interview that Satanism should be acknowledged as a religion in SA!

    Calls are made to boycott Rapport this Sunday!

  • 306.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:04 pm

    Deon Maaskaas……… now there’s one confused individual………

    Don’t blame Rapport, blame freegin Deon……..

  • 307.Bod: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:05 pm

    Tinus

    I’m glad you have eventually woken up. Most of us boycott Rapport EVERY Sunday…

  • 308.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:07 pm

    WP #301…

    Stem saam!

    GBS…

    Vaste vyf is ‘n kopseer vir die WP. Dink egter Rassie sal dit uitsort!

    Sal natuurlik ‘n dekade of so vat voor hulle die Bulle kan aanvat!

  • 309.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:07 pm

    Bod,

    What do you read….. the Sunday Crimes??

    What’s wrong with Rapport?

  • 310.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:08 pm

    #305 – I read that article. Maas is like Jake White – will say anything for attention. He basically said he hates all forms of organised religion – and that satanists get a raw deal. He said that satanism is not a crime per se, and through freedom of religion, they should be allowed to practice their beliefs openly – the same way Muslims, Hindus, Christians may.

    Tinus, Satanism (sadly) IS ALREADY a recognised religion in SA, and it is NO crime to be a practising one. Only if a crime is committed – I.e. animal is abused, property destroyed etc, can a criminal charge be laid.
    Anton la Vey’s Satanic Bible is EASILY obtainable, and can be found without looking to hard.
    That said – THEY SUCK…AND I FOR ONE AIN’T AFRAID OF THE FARRKKEERRS. So begone Satan and f*k off with your demons…I ain’t in the mood for your kuk. And I believe God smiles when I say that…

  • 311.mettie: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:08 pm

    “I picked a player of colour for every position in my four years, except flyhalf. The reality is that I have done more than any other coach has ever done in terms of being representative at test level.”

    I HAVE DONE MORE. So you were not forced after all, Joky boy. You have done more.

  • 312.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:10 pm

    Bod…

    Rapport sport coverage is good, this week and next month however, NO!

    Maas is not a dragon!

  • 313.Bod: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:10 pm

    GBS, GBS, GBS

    The (Cape) Sunday Argus… of course.

    Did you really expect anything else?

  • 314.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:13 pm

    #308 – Ten years?? About the same length of time we have to wait to see the Bulls score a REALLY CLASSY, CREATIVE, BACKLINE INSPIRED TRY????

  • 315.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:13 pm

    ruck…

    Bless you, and I mean that!

  • 316.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:15 pm

    Bod,

    Eishhhhh the Argus…….. aggeneeeeeeeee……. although I must admit I’ve only seen the Argus a few times……. everybody to their own, hey!!!!

    Well, if you had to choose an Afrikaans Sunday Newspaper, which one would you choose then??

  • 317.Tinus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:17 pm

    ruck #310…

    That is why democricy stinks!

    #314…

    Look at the scoreboard!

    Need to go, later alligator!

  • 318.Adman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:23 pm

    Watts did not ask him about his relationship with the Watsons… he asked him what was his history with Luke Watson

    UFO what dont you undertsand

    THERE IS NOT A RELATIONSHIP APART FROM JAKE NOT RATING HIM AS A PLAYER…..read it again if u still dont understand..
    there is no 3rd force.
    there is no inherent hate that manifested itself prior to the watsons opening their big mouths at the coach.

    Get over it man…u r just being blinded by the facts…perhaps another coach in another time will think different.

    UFO get back into your little spaceship and go back to where u came from….

  • 319.Bod: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:23 pm

    GBS

    My Afrikaans bly nog steeds kak… ek sukkel eers om n’ Noddy boek in Afrikaans te lees.

    Nou hoe de moer moet ek dan n’ hele Afrikaans koerant lees?

  • 320.Tacitus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:30 pm

    I’ve said it before, but my favourite episode remains Luke’s departure from the Sharks. He stated publicly that he was leaving the Sharks in order to join a winning culture. Well, he was hardly in Cape Town or the Sharks started winning and WP started losing.

    Maybe Luke should realize that it is his ATTITUDE that is the problem. Seriously, have you seen one other rugby player in SA who walks around on the field like he is carrying two pianos under his arms?

    Or maybe it is his massive ego that he is trying to carry underneath those 90 degree angled arms of his.

  • 321.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:33 pm

    OK Bod,

    I understand your handicap…….. hehehe

  • 322.Gravy: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:41 pm

    320 I suspect its the massive ego, he will probably end up playing for the cats then head overseas play part time rugby for a richmond based club, then head back to SA and see his playing days out with border and the pumas……..

  • 323.JL1: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 18:59 pm

    Skopskiet is Luke Watson

  • 324.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:25 pm

    GBS ek was bietjie besig, gym toe, geeet, flyfishing program gekyk en nous ek terug.

    Jip naam begin met ‘n N grootste kukmaker in Beeld. He he

  • 325.Durban Poison: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:25 pm

    Jislaaik, this oke is so nauseating! Okay, he won the RWC and that’s quite an accomplishment, but to start nailing guys through his autobiography doesn’t show any dignity. Especially if it’s fabricated lies to sell more copies. Everyone’s judging Jake the Snake (and a snake he is – a slimey boomslang if you like) based on him being the winning RWC coach and not what the picture was when he was on a record losing streak, his team being humiliated in Australia and behaving like a right ‘wichser’ in not picking Luke Watson, when he was the form Super 14 loose forward in the country (even the okes from Pretoria were rightly calling for Luke’s inclusion in the Bok squad!). Now he’s using his book to settle old scores because he’s flavour of the month and friends with T-bone. The more I hear about what’s in the book, the more I believe it’s more of a bloody fiction novel and can’t be taken seriously.

  • 326.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:26 pm

    Naand Tinus, JL1 en Ruck, wat sssse julle ouens (en dame)?

  • 327.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:28 pm

    Durban Poisen, that’s a bit unfair. He’s just giving back to Saru and Luke what they handed to him.

    Luke said the same stuff in SI and other magazines. This is not the middle ages where you shut your mouth just because……

  • 328.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:29 pm

    Skopskiet is Rudolp Lake

  • 329.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:30 pm

    #320 Well said man! He’s carrying his ego in those to arms. Benching 160kg my arse

  • 330.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:31 pm

    #316 Son he he he

  • 331.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:31 pm

    #320 Skies dis moes eintlik Sondag gewees het. he he

  • 332.Clanerk: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:33 pm

    Durban Poison, why don’t you give me your real name and let’s put a little spin on it, if it’s Jock I’ve got a great one for you.

    I’m tired of all the “Joke” and “Snake” one liners. They’re tired.

  • 333.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:33 pm

    Ok…waars almal?

  • 334.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:34 pm

    Hoezit Clanerk! Darem iemand hier!

  • 335.Clanerk: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:36 pm

    Hoezit Weti! Nie vir lank nie ou maat, moet nou a toon klap.

    I think everyone’s having supper, sure it’ll pick up again in about 30 minutes or so.

  • 336.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:39 pm

    Jip dis etenstyd. Wat dink jy van die Jake debakel?

  • 337.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:41 pm

    Heeellooo Weti….Ek sit nou weer by comper en WERK…Moet na julle “neck of the woods toe kom” Vrydag – en ek het kuk baie om klaar te maak voor ek vlieg – sheez, maar al die probleme met die vlegtuie, Boeings en so aan – eh stap eerder noord. Moes verlede naweek eintlik gegaan het, gelukkig gekanselleer…..maar die week se VLUG is aan…..Bewer bewer bewer.
    Clanerk, I wish had time for supper…..hubby has been force fed Kentucky again!!!

  • 338.Tacitus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:41 pm

    Hey Weti

    So jy werk vir Beeld?

  • 339.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:42 pm

    #338 – I think he writes for the Beeld….my rag of choice when in Jozi.

  • 340.Clanerk: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:44 pm

    I’ve always liked and supported Jake. The timing of everything isn’t ideal but he’s got a book coming out, publicity sells books, perfect business sense.

    It’s about time someones open and honest about everything, as always there’s two sides to a story, at least Jake is willing to give us his, that’s more than anyone before him.

    All of this will soon blow over, a new chapter will begin and the Springboks will march on.

  • 341.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:44 pm

    mmmmmmmmm hehehe……..

  • 342.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:46 pm

    #338 Jip werk vir Beeld, maar in die advertensieafdeling. Wili ‘n journo wees nie. Te min geld vir te veel werk. Die beste rugby journo wat ek ken is De Jong Borchardt, hy was altyd by Beeld maar skryf nou vir daai afskuwelike sondag koerant, Rapport, ek koop hom ni meer nie want Rudolph Lake is ‘n idioot!

  • 343.Durban Poison: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:46 pm

    Apparently Jake White is also not his real name: the Snake (Joke, if you prefer!) was born, Jacob Westerduin ;)

  • 344.eth_ig_er: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:46 pm

    white should be in hollywood,what a dummy.

  • 345.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:47 pm

    ja GBS eet jy lekker!

  • 346.Clanerk: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:48 pm

    #343 Westerduin? WTF?

  • 347.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:49 pm

    Ruck, Beeld is die beste koerant in Gauteng, rerig nie net omdat ek daar werk nie. Ons redakteur is eerlik het het integriteit. Jy kan dit van min ander koerante se deesdae.

    Wat kom doen jy hier?

  • 348.Isigidi: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:50 pm

    Durban #325

    “to start nailing guys through his autobiography doesn’t show any dignity”

    Just who is he nailing and why should he show dignity to ANY farker who tried to nail him.

    JW was crucified by all those farkers and guess what, he proofed everybody wrong.

    JW played by the rules by keeping quiet during his contract. If anything, JW owes it to us rugby supporters to tell how it really went down.

    One must be very very stupid to write things in an autobiography he can not substantiate with facts.

    Can’t wait for the book.

    “when he was the form Super 14 loose forward in the country (even the okes from Pretoria were rightly calling for Luke’s inclusion in the Bok squad!):

    You are showing your lack of rugby knowledge. LW is simply not a good flanker, end of story.

    You should not listen what the Bulls are calling for, hell they called on the PCouncil to fire JW in a vote of non confidence 11 months before he won the world cup. Talk about eating humble pie.

    Howzit everybody!!!!!!!!!!

  • 349.Tacitus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:50 pm

    Weti

    Ja, ek lees vir de Jongh. Skryf lekker berigte. Maar hy kom nog nie by my favourite nie:

    Die “laat” Quintus van Rooyen. Hehehe. Ja, laat die kusbewoners maar moan oor hom. Ek het Quintus se rubrieke meer as geniet.

  • 350.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:51 pm

    DP weet dit is sterk, maar moet jy nie bietjie afskaal nie ou maat?

  • 351.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:54 pm

    #347 – Tv Ad voorleggings en storyboards…….ook ‘n paar “foolish” kliente gaan sien. Hulle verstaan nog nie hoekom hulle Corporate Identities moet kry. En blah blah blah.
    Hopefully ‘n dag se krieket, Saterdag in Centurion inwerk…. (For the love of the game, I’ll venture to the dark side…)

  • 352.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:55 pm

    #349 Jy hou seker ook van Morris Gilbert?!

  • 353.Tacitus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:56 pm

    Weti

    Die Burger ondersteun die WP.
    Die Natal Mercury seker die Sharks
    Die Volksblad vir die Cheetahs.
    Maar wie is nou eintlik die Beeld se span?
    Smaak my hulle leun maar Bulle se kant toe as jy die hoeveelheid berigte tel vir die Bulle en Lions onderskeidelik.

    Ek like die Beeld. Kwaliteit nuus en mense wat my taal praat.

  • 354.Durban Poison: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:56 pm

    Jacob Westerduin became Jake White – reminds me of those poor Afrikaaners that the Nats moved to Durban to work for the railways and vote for them; most of them also changed their names to English sounding ones, just to fit in.

  • 355.eth_ig_er: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:57 pm

    Jacob must just shut the hell-up and go to england where he always wanted to go.

  • 356.Tacitus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:57 pm

    Weti

    Morris is Quintus se opvolger. Nog nie daar nie, maar ten minste is sy “subject matter” altyd korrek. Hehehe.

  • 357.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:58 pm

    #349 – Tacitus, gelukkig weet ek nie wie die hel Quintus van Rooyen is, so I won’t comment.

  • 358.Bagel: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:59 pm

    eth_ig_er? You still here? Hehe my day just got better time for some serious comedy!

  • 359.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 19:59 pm

    Well said Isi!

    Ruck, well done so jy’s ook in die advertensiebedryf!

  • 360.Tacitus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:00 pm

    Hierdie Durban Poison lyk maar of hy ‘n redelike agressie probleem het.

    “Anger Management” klasse sal dalk help.

    Ek is deesdae so gelukkig soos ‘n vark in Palestina. Dinge lyk voor die wind in alle rugby opsigte wat my betref vir 2008!

  • 361.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:01 pm

    Tacitus

    Ek en ‘n pel spot altyd dat hy die PR van die boelle is. Hy kry twee saliristjeks aan die einde van die maand, een van Beeld en een van die boelle.

    Quintus was so erg hyt sommer die blou bul span gekies. he he

  • 362.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:01 pm

    Ek mis ou Quintus van Blouen se skryfstyl….. kyk daai ou was erg Blou bevooroordeeld (amper soos Tac) maar hy kon darem mooi rugby praat en sy privaat statistiek-argief was die mees omvattendste in SA……..

  • 363.Bagel: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:03 pm

    GBS what is remember in Afrikaans?

  • 364.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:04 pm

    DP – I also think Jake has lost a bit of class in the last 48 hours. He came across as quite “tacky” on the telly last night. He’s just as bitchy as those he criticises – they’re all a bunch of girls!!!
    BUT – he did bring the Cup home and survived against all odds – +5 points
    Common behaviour (really bitchy personal attack on Luke) – -3 points
    TOTAL: 2 (+1 for stamina…) = 3

  • 365.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:04 pm

    #353 Beeld se leserskap is baie sterk in PTA, die boelle is die wen span die afgelope paar jaar so….hulle kry die meeste publisiteit.

    Jy moet ook onthou dat Beeld ‘n paar bladsye kan verander in sy JHB uitgawe. So die koerant wat jy koop in JHB en die een wat jy in PTA koop kan verskil, ni baie nie maar dit kan.

    Beeld probeer maar vir albei “markte” caiter.

  • 366.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:04 pm

    Onthou Bagel…….. onthou…..

    You’ve disappointed me lately with your anti-Bulls drivel and anti Afrikaans muck……

  • 367.eth_ig_er: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:08 pm

    #358
    did you miss me?

  • 368.Tacitus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:08 pm

    Weti

    Ek lees die Beeld maar op die website, siende dat ek nie die koerant in lewende lywe kan koop nie.

    Maar dis maar waar ek meeste van my nuutste Bul-nuus vandaan kry. Danksy Morris.

  • 369.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:08 pm

    #359 – Yes Weti, I f**k with peoples minds, (subliminal)of course….

    Tacitus – Horns out the *** now son….Not good for your colon – although bowel movements should return to normal once Super 14 starts – you’ll be kukking yourself every weekend. Blue Fridays, Saturdays, but as Pietman says, “You’ll happily support anything thats blue…….”

  • 370.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:09 pm

    Beeld het ‘n hele paar verskillende uitgawes om presies te wees……. JHB en omgewing, Pretoorsdorp en omgewing, Platteland

    So sal Weti vir jou vertel, Tswane Beeld (vir wie hy werk kom net in die Pretoria en omgewing uit, Oos-Rand Beeld net in die Oos-Rand (Wroensdae), Wes-Rand Beeld net in die Wes-Rand…..

    Die advertensies in die verskillende uitgawes verskil ook wesenlik, na gelang van die roetes van die koerant…..

  • 371.Tacitus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:11 pm

    Ruck

    Om Vix aan te haal: “Jy praat net!”

  • 372.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:13 pm

    Ruck, are you connected to 1 of the Cape Ad-Agencies?

  • 373.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:16 pm

    Goeie werk GBS jy luister as handbriekie praat! he he

  • 374.Isigidi: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:17 pm

    Ruck

    You think the timing of JW’s book will bare any influence on SA rugby at all?

    You think the PC is taking note of the book and its contents?……..
    Maybe decide on different approaches in future…….
    measuring maybe their mistakes by its contents……..
    maybe do a little self investigation because someone actually stood up and told them that they made mistakes……
    and proofed it too?

  • 375.eth_ig_er: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:17 pm

    where is dat old fool?t e r r o

  • 376.Weti: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:18 pm

    Ok maters eks gone. Ruck geniet dit in Piraks aka Pretoorsdarop aka Pretoria, net nie die T woord nie.

  • 377.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:18 pm

    TACITUS – Sheez, I got so into your bowel movements I forgot to tell you the snippet of info I heard during a meeting this afternoon.
    No **** – true. Ask Staal if you think I’m kidding….My client has an inside into the goings on down here at WPRU headquarters. Now the reason the Stormers senior contracted players haven’t been announced yet, is wait for it – Because there is some hold up from the Bulls side….players up there waiting for a sign from God or something. SO: start crapping yourself..and get hold of Staal. Whilst your beloveds might not be coming to Cape Town (some might), there seems to be signs of some of them going somewhere…….Why else would ALL final squad announcements be delayed cos of the Bulls??

    Makes you think – doesn’t it??

  • 378.Durban Poison: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:19 pm

    All the plaudits to JW for coaching the Boks to the RWC title. But I’m still not gonna believe everything in his book i.e. his version of events, just cos he’s the RWC winning coach.

    PS. Is there a good reason why there is no afrikaans word for ‘Anger Management’?!

  • 379.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:22 pm

    #372 – No no no – would never align myself with an agency. I steer my own ship. Got my clients – use production companies I trust down here, graphic designers up north, web designers in Stellies etc etc. Nee wat, ek hou daarvan om my eie baas te wees.

  • 380.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:22 pm

    Yeah Durban Poison…….. because we don’t need to manage it…… we vent it when the need arises……… hehehe

  • 381.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:26 pm

    #374 – I did read exactly what The Head honcho of ABSA told the PC – he said they better get their house in order, and fast…All the sponsors are applying pressure.

    BUT: Jake ain’t an innocent bystander – for all the good he has done. He’s also got an “agenda”, in fact has always had one….

    Th whole shebang SUX..but at least the sponsors are clamping down on ‘em all – the money will see some sanity prevail.

  • 382.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:27 pm

    ruck,

    Have you ever been exposed to the new Afrikaans Sunday paper…… with the Afrikaans name for Sunday?

  • 383.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:30 pm

    #382 – Oh hell yeah – My hubby reads it along with the Rapport (Kaapse Rapport) every Sunday..I read the Rapport for the sport section…
    I also read the Sunday Argus and the Sunday Times.
    Ons lees baie Sondae…..

  • 384.eth_ig_er: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:31 pm

    i wonder where the rest of the terrorist are with only one left or are they reading in block in white by joke.

  • 385.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:32 pm

    Anger Management in Afrikaans = Kwaaitjie Kabouter Klasse……… hehehe

  • 386.Chips: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:32 pm

    The boy Watson’s Wikipedia entry says it all:

    “Watson did not appear in the 2007 Rugby World Cup squad, and due to the magnificent performance of the Springbok loose forwards Juan Smith and Schalk Burger, who were both in the running for Player of the Tournament, he was not missed”

    Bravo Jake for making a really tough decision, sticking to your guns and then watching it pay off

  • 387.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:34 pm

    #384 – Tacitus is now fervently phoning EVERYONE he knows to follow up on the snippet of info I gave him RE: the Bulls players……Bless his heart, I was only pulling his leg – but I betya he’s in a state of absolute meltdown……..

  • 388.grootblousmile: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:35 pm

    Etterkoppie, waaroor gaan jy nou weer aan……. modderotter-donsdoos-windbal-honjol ??

  • 389.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:37 pm

    Derek: “You don’t get smacked on the butt?”

    Jake: “There is a little bit of that but it is nothing like playing a test match, so it’s okay.”

    Just thinking – How many times do you boys think Wynand Olivier BEGGED to be RE-initiated???

    (No offence meant to Wynand his family or his Blue supporters)

  • 390.Tacitus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:37 pm

    Ruck

    The holdup at the Bulls is that if Heyneke is appointed Bok coach, Matfield will be part of the Bulls S14 squad. The Bok Coaching announcement is holding everything up.

  • 391.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:39 pm

    #390 – LOL LOL – Had you phoning didn’t I??

    The Bok coaching announcement is only due 2nd week December…….Pote must be anxious.

  • 392.TheTackler: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:44 pm

    Fluke Wotsup just isn’t good enough. Over-rated. Big-headed. Windgat. Chock-full of “entitlement”.

    You tell ‘em, Jake!

  • 393.Tacitus: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:49 pm

    Hello Ruck, let me give you some of my attention, seeing as you have so clearly been craving it throughout this thread.

    Some advice – friendly, believe it or not – Don’t be so excitable. Or so anxious to see imaginary problems in the Bulls camp. The issue of the Bok coaching announcement is like a molehill compared to the mountain of “challenges” faced at Newlands at the moment.

    I don’t blame Rassie for wanting to pull out his hair and pack up back to Bloemfontein.

    Here’s a thought. Why don’t WP just appoint a coloured coach and then everyone will be happy. All the Afrikaans guys from Stellenbosch – the real strength of WP rugby – seem to be heading up north these days in any case. You don’t need them, do you?

  • 394.ruck: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 20:58 pm

    #393 – LOL. In some sick and tortured way – I really really “enjoy” you. (And no, I can’t explain this freaky phenomenon – next thesis possibly??)
    Thank you for the attention – (was it as good for you as it was for me??)

    Now, I can continue with the task at hand – work, delighted in the knowledge they YOU REALLY CARE….LOL.
    Have to work now.
    Ciao – Hou by die Blou!!!

  • 395.Boogeyman: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 22:07 pm

    #37 lolpantoff :)

  • 396.Big Hit: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 22:17 pm

    Has there ever been an Afrikaans coach in the NH?

  • 397.Big Hit: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 22:22 pm

    Brendan Venter?

  • 398.Clanerk: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 22:26 pm

    #396 Wasn’t Brendan Venter a caretaker-coach somewhere at one stage? Also Rudolph Streuli had a stint with a second division club before he came back to coach the Sharks. The memories a bit fuzzy so please don’t take my word for it.

  • 399.Tomsta: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 22:27 pm

    cant believe there is still but smacking going on and that carry on at bok initiations. hasnt kamp staaldraad shown how useless it is to humiliate someone?

  • 400.Clanerk: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 22:29 pm

    Big Hit. I must say I thoroughly enjoyed the Heineken Cup games this weekend. They get a bad rap in SA but they’re not nearly as one-dimensional as I had expected, especially so when the French clubs are involved.

    For the record, I’ll be supporting Edinburgh so wish me luck. :)

  • 401.Big Hit: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 22:37 pm

    398

    I think your right. If memory serves me correct, Straueli might’ve coached Bedford.

    Yeah, Venter was player-coach I wasn’t sure if he was Afrikaans. A real hard nut. I seen him get sent off as a coach.

    400

    To push Toulouse like they did was unprecedented for Edinburgh and would’ve been their biggest victory. Coach Andy Robinson seems to have started well.

  • 402.skopskiet: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 23:34 pm

    Would have been an interesting comparison to see if Burger or du Preez or van Heerdens fathers had been activists in the 70′s whether they would have been automatic picks in Jakes squad or whether they would also have been ‘simply not good enough’ for some inane reason.

    Obviously they weren’t activists so the question simply never needed to be asked whether they were good enough or not, it was automatically taken for granted that they were, this bullsh’t smacks of double standards to high heaven and Jake is a double handed lier.

    This was not about whether Luke was good enough or not and anyone can’t see plain wood for trees is also a lier or else in blatant denial of the truth.

  • 403.kesbok: Reply to this comment
    12 Nov 2007, 23:41 pm

    This is great stuff – well done Jake. We need to look beyond all the opinions and cutting statements and realise that there is major interference by those who run rugby in SA as to who should get picked and who should be a Springbok. I don’t beleive that is has too much to do woth government interference and that the whole thing has been delegated down to a group of administrators. To be honest the SA government has much larger issues they need to deal with – rugby is just another small issue.

    Jake’s tenure seemed to be an unpleasant ride of intereference and back stabbing. The winner is Jake becuase he delivered. I also agree with his take on Watson – a good S14 performer but really not a test flank. I cannot imagine any of our forwards having to step down for Watson there is just too much depth and talent.

  • 404.skopskiet: Reply to this comment
    13 Nov 2007, 00:04 am

    Funny how Richie McCaw and George Smith would have disagreed with you there, and they would have disagreed then with Jake too, yes they played against all these boys and they were pretty flabbergasted how come Luke was not part of the Bok team way back in 2006 already, especially since back then the best we could do was somewhere around 0-49 with all our magnificent flankers playing and getting routed.

    Unfortunately by now too much water has gone under the bridge so now we’ll never really know, will we?

  • 405.TheTackler: Reply to this comment
    13 Nov 2007, 01:20 am

    Naah… nobody in NZ rates Fluke Wotsup at all and the Stormers absolutely SUCKED under his lacklustre and divisive “captaincy”. Cellar-dwellers.

  • 406.RugbyRulz: Reply to this comment
    13 Nov 2007, 02:17 am

    Skop 2006 & 2007 Whole lot of difference in a year of Rugby. 2007 season was not half as good as 2006 >>>> end of story. Luke Watson is a player at the S14 level and thats about it. Time will tell if he has a future as a Springbok.

    Jake White is a coach of immeasurable talent of which South Africa will sorely miss. The guy had to put up with so much **** from a bunch of nematodes for so many years it amazes me he hasnt emptied the bucket a whole lot more. The guy exudes class of which South Africa does not deserve. Surely the likes of which will never be repeated.

  • 407.green blood: Reply to this comment
    13 Nov 2007, 12:06 pm

    Help me out here please?

    players of color selected by JW
    1 Guthro S
    2 Chilly R, Hiyane S
    3 Eddie A, Lorry S
    4 ? Quinton D (not sure)
    5 ?
    6 ? Kabamba and Solly T
    7 Hilton L, Tim D (selected but did not play)
    8 ?
    9 Rick J, Bolla C
    10 none
    11 Bryan H
    12 Wayne J
    13 Waylon M
    14 Akona N, JP P, Beyron P.
    15 Bevin F, Conrad J,

    can someone please fill the numbers with ?’s. i cant remember who he selected?

  • 408.taliets: Reply to this comment
    13 Nov 2007, 17:06 pm

    Wow what an emotional story! Does anyone know where I can watch this interview online? Please let me know! thx.

Keo.co.za has always promoted uncensored views, but has never tolerated racist or crass outbursts. Come on guys and girls. If you can't moderate yourselves or each other then I am going to be forced to regulate the posts and enforce a registration process for comments. The choice is yours.

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