Transformation a factor
9 Jan 2008
The decision to appoint Peter de Villiers as Springbok coach was made not only in terms of his rugby credentials.
De Villiers became the first black head coach of the Boks in a dramatic afternoon at Saru headquarters. It was widely expected former Bulls coach Heyneke Meyer would get the job but the decision to give it to De Villiers must be seen as a strong move towards transformation. Saru president Regan Hoskins confirmed as much.
“I want to be honest with South Africa and say that the appointment was not entirely made for rugby reasons,” he said. “We as an organisation have made the appointment and taken into account the issue of transformation very very seriously when we made it. I don’t think that tarnishes Peter – I’m just being honest with our country.”
SA Rugby MD Johan Prinsloo said the final race was between De Villiers and Bulls mentor Heyneke Meyer and that it went down to a vote. Prinsloo could not divulge the exact number of presidents for and against the ultimate appointment but maintained the final call was aligned with that of the technical committee.
“The technical committee was assembled to advise the presidents council on the selection of the Springbok coach,” he said. “I can confirm that the recommendation from the committee was the same as the final decision.
“Peter has created history today. He has a proven track record and we trust he will have the support of the rugby fraternity as Springbok rugby enters a new phase. Saru is confident he will build on the momentum created by the World Cup win and it is a very important appointment for SA rugby.”
De Villiers will now begin contract talks with Saru and join the technical committee in appointing his support staff. Saru will advertise for these positions in the coming week and candidates will be subject to a similar selection process to that of the top job.
De Villiers is also scheduled to meet with the five South African Super 14 coaches on 14 January.
By Jon Cardinelli at Newlands
180 Comments
9 Jan 2008, 14:28 pm
Now what happens to Meyer – his now without a job!!!!
There goes our rugby as we know it.. f-king plonkers!!!!
I will not pay my good earned money to go and whatch this circus – plonkers!!!
9 Jan 2008, 14:29 pm
Good luck Pieter – you are going to need it!
9 Jan 2008, 14:29 pm
Oi vey
This is not a good thing to admit straight up is it?
This is the fellow that said he would start with 10 players of colour?
9 Jan 2008, 14:36 pm
I knew it! I hoped I was wrong, but unfortunately not.
This is the start of SARU’s placing transformation ahead of merit so we can guess what’s gonna happen to the world champs.
Pieter, I hope you do us proud. If not, bugger off as soon as possible.
9 Jan 2008, 14:36 pm
This guy is just as qualified as jake white was when he took over. give him a chance, lets see how he does. what has been said has been said, lets see what actually happens.
9 Jan 2008, 14:39 pm
Lets give the guy a chance, half the country thought Jake was useless 4 years ago!
9 Jan 2008, 14:39 pm
Oh – I was no. 1 for a change and our current world ranking is also 1 does it matter no, I see in my cristal ball we will drop to no. 6 in less than two years!!! – plonkers!!!
9 Jan 2008, 14:39 pm
This is the year that Africa shows that it becoming just another African country on the road to chaos.
Jacob Zuma and PD. The downhill is starting
9 Jan 2008, 14:41 pm
knersus
JW had experience with the boks under Mallet and Harry, and stints with provincial sides.
I hope to hell he does well. I couldnt be bothered who got the job as long as they do well.
If HM was appointed and did badly we could tell him where to get off no problem. Wanna take any bets what the response is gonna be if/when we tell PdV he must p1ssoff ?
9 Jan 2008, 14:52 pm
has keo.co.za been down???
9 Jan 2008, 15:00 pm
This is a complete and utter disaster – a travesty of natural justice!
Jakes’ wonderful Springbok player legacy will be destroyed.
Luke Watson will be the new Bok captain and maybe his daddy (who is on the Council) will now support the Boks.
Boks to come last in the tri-nations and by the end of next WC, Zimbabwe will be giving us a run for our money.
All our good players are now as I write this calling their agents and booking one-way tickets to Aus and Europe.
Hopefully someone like Mr Rupert comes to the rescue and establishes a rebel league in SA.
9 Jan 2008, 15:00 pm
When is the first game?
9 Jan 2008, 15:04 pm
10 players of colour in the starting line up for this year’s 3N.
9 Jan 2008, 15:07 pm
I suppose its only a matter of time before someone comes along and claims grazing rights on Loftus, Absa and Ellis park anyway.
With our country already spending most nights without Eskom this could be the year known as the:
The great bok “blackout” of 2008.
9 Jan 2008, 15:07 pm
Go Pieter Spiere! Sterkte ou bul jy gaan dit regtig nodig he – Ek het LANKAL hierdie move geroep…
AmaBokko-Bokko.
9 Jan 2008, 15:07 pm
I’m sure that the Meyer of Pretoria will now go overseas. Big Vic or someone there will organize a coaching position.
I’m not a racist so I won’t say that our rugby will go to hell just because our new coach is not White.
However, The Meyer of Pretoria should have got it on merit.
9 Jan 2008, 15:08 pm
has keo.co.za been down???
I think Ig has a device that allows him to switch Keo’s server on and off from a remote location – especially when juicy, newsworthy stories are breaking.
9 Jan 2008, 15:10 pm
This is how it is in the new SA. Two men apply for a job, one black one white. They have basicaly the same credentials or the white man has better credentials.
Who gets the job, the black man.
This will be the same with our rugby players. Two players play the same game, have the same talents and strenght, the white man is a bit faster. Who gets into the squad….the black guy.
As Mike H said, SA is turning into just another African country.
9 Jan 2008, 15:11 pm
no, really?
this SARU must be monitored very carefully. there were reports last year about 10/15, watson being elevated to PC, Stofile running for presidency and a sports bill that allows for policy creation by the minister.
I thought alot of these plans had been thankfully scuppered by JW’s succesful RWC and President Mbeki’s merit backing.
With the fall of Mbeki and the choice of the coach not being based solely on rugby criteria, which is rubbish in itself, SARU looks to back to their own ways.
Say what you want about Jake White, but he nearly succeeded in driving a wedge right through these guys, which IMO is long overdue. However, the forces appear to be regathering…
9 Jan 2008, 15:11 pm
It could have been worse. I think he is the best candidate out of the transformation candidates, which may actually improve the selection criteria to only include merit players, as the youth league will keep their mouths shut. I do feel sorry for Meyer. I am sure there are some clubs in the Heineken cup looking for quality experienced coaches.
9 Jan 2008, 15:11 pm
Patrick / Keo
Can you find out the details of the new coaches contract with SA Rugby…. How are they going to measure his performance – by transformation progress, or number of wins/results ????
What is the length of his contract?
9 Jan 2008, 15:16 pm
Why bother getting Meyer to resign from the Bulls position – thereby severely disrupting their S14 preperations – if they were always going for the transformation candidate?
What an utter joke. The most notable achievement IN ANY SPHERE for South Africa as a country in the last decade, was last years World cup victory.
It put us on the international map and said to the world “Hey, we aren’t just another sub-standard African country, we actually competed and outshone first world nations on a level playing field.”
But I guess that non-conforming area of excellence just made the rest of the country – or continent for that matter – look even worse.
So rather than take pride in the achievement of the traditional rugby playing part of society, they want to force it to conform to the low standards of the rest of the nation.
If all our white players leave now we will indeed struggle to do better than Bafana in a rugby context.
Utterly pathetic, but oh so fitting with the African way.
9 Jan 2008, 15:18 pm
so Keo report from the changing rooms following that RWC final was true. The players knew it was the end of the Springboks as we know them
9 Jan 2008, 15:22 pm
EXCELLENT News … For an England supporter .-) Well Done SARU!
9 Jan 2008, 15:22 pm
#21 It looks like he got a 2 year contract
9 Jan 2008, 15:23 pm
‘not on rugby credentials alone’
..in other words
‘we picked him because he was black’
9 Jan 2008, 15:28 pm
So it should have been white coach again?
No wonder the politician are so involve in the sports, cause most rugby supporters believe that its a white man sports and world for that matter.
When will we just love the game for what it is and the moments we experience when watching it. But No, O’ No we have to debate and disagree. Even if we world champions we would still do what we best at,and that is to moan
Guess it should actually be considered as a sport. Imagine… “The moan champion of the world”, SA will dominate it like Kenya does the middle distance running.
Once we can think with our head and not with our heart the Boks will be able to challenge NZ year after year!!
9 Jan 2008, 15:33 pm
who was the last coach to be appointed with ‘rugby credentials’ the only factor?
9 Jan 2008, 15:33 pm
Craven be rolling in his grave
Keo, can you convey opinions from legends such
Naas, Danie, Morne etc?? Maybe article on reaction from various SA media??
I know most overseas media will focus on one thing; him being first black coach.
9 Jan 2008, 15:43 pm
I guess sometimes a change needs to be forced through. I don’t really agree with it, but i can understand why the decision was made.
Meyer was the more experienced coach of all the candidates. De Villiers has though shown himself to be a more than able coach at U21 level, just as a certain Mr White did before his accession to the Springbok hot seat.
I imagine there will be plenty who will bemoan this decision and call time on the Springboks. De Villiers has yet to select his first squad. Let’s hold fire on the doom and gloom until we have seen that at least.
Maybe the selection won’t turn out to be a transformation squad after all.
Maybe selecting a black coach will be sufficient to satisfy the appetite for transformation that the politicians desire, as the Springbok coach is after all the most revered coaching position in South Africa is it not due to rugby’s historical significance in the country?
9 Jan 2008, 15:50 pm
“first Black Coach”
Will anyone see pass this???
Last year, Pieter said something along the lines of..
“I know 60 players of color capable fo stepping up to test rugby”
9 Jan 2008, 15:52 pm
Jump Tacitus, Jump!
9 Jan 2008, 15:55 pm
Only problem is all 60 players play wing.
9 Jan 2008, 15:55 pm
I for one am glad that Meyer has not got the job.
Lets face facts here for a minute; The best place for him to be from a Springbok possition is to have him stay on at the Bulls and continue his work there. PD has the credentials having coached the U21′s for a good couple of years now & has the best feel for the up and coming players that will be making their mark on SA rugby in the next 2 years.
My major concern over the Bok coaching possition has and always will be provincial loyalty. My impresion of Meyer was that he would feed off the success of JW’s side for a year or two and then the provincial rot would have set in just like what happened with Malet.
For all those dommsday profits leaving comments like some of the above – julle can almal gaan ….! I must warn you that you are being incredibly insulting to the enormously tallented player base we have in SA. Players that now have greater skill and rugby knowledge than prior to the JW erra. Players that want to play for the green jersey and not the cash or for their provincial lacky coaches.
If PD was such a bad coach then why was he selected to coach the U21′s and on top of this did they not win it with him as coach?
This site is going to end up being the Blue Bulls bitching column for the next few years ha ha ha.
Tuff luck bulletjies.
9 Jan 2008, 15:55 pm
Why are you so slow today keo.co.za????
We will give Pieter a chance and now there is no excuse from SARU about colour. They got what they wanted and if Pieter fails in 2 years at least we might get someone in to defend our title in 2011. There arent enough players of colour coming through to justify selection to Springbok level and the people that should be blamed are school coaches, club coaches and provincial coaches. It can be done in time….
9 Jan 2008, 15:56 pm
my support now is as follows
1.NTvl/Bulls
2.Springboks(or whatever name they change it to)
Sad day for SA Rugby – The game.
9 Jan 2008, 16:05 pm
I still don’t know how I feel about this…
9 Jan 2008, 16:05 pm
Disgraceful decision!!
Chester Williams should have got the job!!
9 Jan 2008, 16:07 pm
Shimmie
Lawrence
Solly
Eddie
Bobo
are all celebrating right now!
9 Jan 2008, 16:09 pm
I better ring my old man, he be having a heart attack over this
9 Jan 2008, 16:11 pm
Good luck Pieter….this isnt an easy job and if you are true to yourself and to the game, then your road is going to be rocky….unfortunately. The politicians WILL interfere.
9 Jan 2008, 16:13 pm
Heng, kom ek nou eers op keo.
Geluk Pieter, en alles van die beste.
Pasop net vir Stofile en Cheeky, en kyk eers vir Luke mooi uit voordat jy hom kaptein maak.
Verder is jy reg.
9 Jan 2008, 16:13 pm
Pieter, Pieter jy het dit gedoen ou maat. Die snoek loop nie verniet dik innie Kaap in nie. Glo nie hy kan so vrot doen soos Jake in sy 2 middelste jare van bokafrigting. Hy was n kans gegee en het ons almal vekeerd bewys. So shut the *** up. Ek se almal se moere behalwe Pieter s,n totdat hy ons wys hoe lyk sy eerste spankeuse.
9 Jan 2008, 16:13 pm
#34 No they did not win the IRB u21 championship, he coached them to the final where the lost against NZ. We will not win 50% of our games this year. Sorry but your post has no facts as you stated. The facts is Heineke is the better candidate and he didn’t get the job because of political reasons.
9 Jan 2008, 16:13 pm
I dont understand why this is a surprise to anyone.
No top positions in SA are awarded on merit anymore, from surgeons to nuclear engineers at Koeberg Nuclear power plant.
I understand the need to address the imbalances of the past, but it is not a simple matter and is being abused to all our detriment.
Rugby should be the least of your worries, because in fact here PdV is at least qualified with some experience for the role, and I say good luck to him.
I’m sorry for Meyer, but his not the first whitey in the past 12 years to get shafted although he is the better candidate.
But think of this, is PdV black enough? For the time being – maybe, I dont think so for the long term.
Remember Tsume’s and yeye’s comments a while ago while trying to force Tibilika into the squad because he is ETHNIC black.
9 Jan 2008, 16:15 pm
i guess results will determine whether PDV was the correct choice. Should form slip and losses be the norm then SARFU willfeel it where it hurts. The treasure chest will soon empty. Empty grounds , no sponsors etc.
Lets give the bloke a chance but losing is not an option in this day and age where big cash is involved
9 Jan 2008, 16:18 pm
Hiro #35
That, in a nustshell, is the story.
Not the coach’s problem thatthere is no ‘black development’, but Stofile &Co must get off their fat buds and go into the townships.
Go to Komphela’s constituency first, where there is nothing.
9 Jan 2008, 16:18 pm
reverse apatheid
9 Jan 2008, 16:27 pm
Gee whiz , some of teh comments here are so off , Personally would have loved to see Meyer as coach but PDV has been appointed and I have no problem with that. So what if he has never coached a senior team , Neither did Jake but Straulli , Fester and Ludeke did. Would that make them solid choices ? Come to think of it Did’nt Chester coach the Cats a while back ? PDV have a solid record and at one stage Jake was his assistant , why could Jake get the job ahead of him ? At that time we backed Jake and rightfully so , now is the time to back PDV. Time to take off the blinkers and started believing that a non white person can also coach the Boks , why must it always be a case of him needing more time ?
FFS the man has coach for many years and have loads of experience , at one stage Jake was his assistant !!! I wish him luck and will give him my 100% support , pity about meyer but hey he is hopefully not lost to SA , is he is then it will be sad but we cannot afford to be held ransom but anyone.
9 Jan 2008, 16:28 pm
Ok let’s look at the mans credentials. I don’t think he is a technically sound coach. He stated that he doesn’t tell the players what they should do on the field. Does this mean he doesn’t play with a gameplan? Does he analyze the oppo before hand, how’s his technical knowledge? I just don’t know if he is the best man for the job.
9 Jan 2008, 16:29 pm
Thats just it.
We talk about our incredibly talented player base that we have in SA and then praise a guy for winning the U21 world cup.
Anyone could of taken an U21 Rugby team from SA and had a good crack at the world cup. anyone. What makes PDV so special.
PDV has accomplished nothing.
9 Jan 2008, 16:29 pm
Hallloooo weti,
Ek soek jou!!! Ek was die naweek by my suster in Vistaria, wou n draai maak.
Cousin my ou maat is mos geban jong!!!
9 Jan 2008, 16:30 pm
Stawn , I think if we closely examine PDV and Meyer’s record you will see that PDV is not that far , the only diffs is Meyer Coached and won in the s14 , having said that , I did feel Meyer deserved it more and thought he was going to get it but PDV is now the coach , no use crying , lets give the man our full backing.
Think of it this way guys , John Smit was by far not the best rugby player in his position the last couple of years but he was the best Captain.
9 Jan 2008, 16:31 pm
49
I dont think too many people are saying that PdV needs more time, just that Meyer is more experienced at the moment.
If PdV follows his heart and always selects who he thinks will win the games then he will do well.
If he plays a black/white/brown numbers game, he wont last 2 years.
9 Jan 2008, 16:31 pm
hey Pietman
I sendt an email today to GW union re: PdV playing record. I think you right about him never making the grade. Not many colored players in Kimb back then.
I remember playing against Wellington Mgxaji, a flanker,Dolly Ntaka, and ofcourse China Bell(Police EP)
9 Jan 2008, 16:31 pm
Pietman,
Jy slaan die spyker oppie kop daar broer!!!! Dis nie die donerse Bok coach wat transformation moet doen nie, maar die skole en clubs. Komphela en sy boeties moet wakker word innie lewe!!!
9 Jan 2008, 16:32 pm
Durban docks , if it was that easy howcome only 2 SA coachs have managed it so far ? Namely PDV and Jake
9 Jan 2008, 16:33 pm
greatest @48,
Karma’s a ***** I guess.
9 Jan 2008, 16:34 pm
Mr sparticus,
Danie Coetzee and Gary Botha were the equal of John Smit a few years ago. I still rate Danie as the stronger scrummager of the lot..even today.
9 Jan 2008, 16:34 pm
If the likes of Matfield decide that they do not now want to represent the boks because their fav coach is not the bok coach, and I really hope this isnt the case, then I say bye bye to you.
We will always find new talented players that will fill the void.
9 Jan 2008, 16:36 pm
Mr stodders,
I fear my old man, will never step foot outside Pretoria ever again. He is very angry over this.
9 Jan 2008, 16:36 pm
Stawm
Lets see how you find a new Victor in the next two to three years…
9 Jan 2008, 16:37 pm
58
Repeating the mistakes of history is nothing less than stupid.
9 Jan 2008, 16:37 pm
Mr Stawn
Matfield will now stay in France and then come back in 09 to face the Lions(his last challenge bfore retirement)
9 Jan 2008, 16:38 pm
62
Hangbal
It wont be easy, but it will happen anyway, regardless of whether matfield stays or goes.
The names Skeat and Bekker come to mind.
9 Jan 2008, 16:39 pm
Greatest13 , thats my point , there were better hookers than him but he was still the best Captain , so Meyer might be better technically , PDV might just be in the selestors eyes a better coach for the boks for now. Lets give the man a chance , his track record is good. He has put in lotsa hard word to get where he is today , the road was by no means easy.
9 Jan 2008, 16:39 pm
What next..Zuma to be president??
9 Jan 2008, 16:40 pm
64
Do you think Matfield does not mind missing all the tests in between now and 2009?
If so it will be a big shame, as he will definately be in the 1st 15 regardless of PdV’s other selections.
9 Jan 2008, 16:42 pm
Stawm,
They aren’t bad, but in my book they will never become the world’s best… Bekker a man giant but not a thinker… Skeate good hard worker but not a thinker and analyst like Matfield.
Saying this, it would be sad to loose a Matfield at this stage of his career. I wonder whi PdV will choose as captain??? I will let JS stay on!!!
9 Jan 2008, 16:42 pm
Mr Sparticus
Lets cut the PC and state it like it is. He was chosen because he is black. No “ifs” or “buts”
the ANC puppetmaster strikes again
9 Jan 2008, 16:42 pm
Gotto agree with Stawm , Matfield is very talented and hard to replace but not irreplacable. One thing I have learned over the years is that as old heroes go away new ones emerged. Thats a blessing and a curse in SA. Look at Bobby in his Heyday and think Pierre Spies today , or Kankowski or etc etc , u get my point.
9 Jan 2008, 16:42 pm
67
Zuma is a Zulu isnt he?
No chance he will be the next president.
9 Jan 2008, 16:43 pm
greatest13 , #67 – as horrible as that sounds I will not be suprise !!!
9 Jan 2008, 16:43 pm
Those CT boys aren’t good enough to clean Matfield’s boots.
9 Jan 2008, 16:45 pm
70
We live in Africa and must do things the african way.
If this leads to a Kenya type of election in years to come, nothing will change it because the powers that be do not want it changed.
9 Jan 2008, 16:45 pm
Eish greatest13 , I think we gonna have to agree to disagree on the PDV issue , I just feel the man is a good candidate along with Meyer and they chose him , personally I would have gone Meyer but I have no problem with PDV.
9 Jan 2008, 16:46 pm
74
At the moment I agree, but they are young still and need good coaching and mentorship.
9 Jan 2008, 16:46 pm
No one is irreplaceable, but you loose valuable knowledge that will take another two to three years to simply be the best in the world, slot in that position and to have the analyst skills like a Matfield… FACT!!
9 Jan 2008, 16:48 pm
thanks Sparticus , I understand where you are coming from dispite our disagreement.
Stawm,
Zim
Kenya
SA?
9 Jan 2008, 16:49 pm
78
Agreed, but this is why there is a big loss to our rugby if we keep losing so many players to the NH etc.
They need to stay in the system and mentor the younger up and rising stars.
9 Jan 2008, 16:50 pm
Geez… By the reaction here you would have thought that Chester got the job.
I am bitterly dissapointed for HM, but not dissapointed that PdV got the job. He has a tough ride ahead of him and could well do with our support instead of the bitching.
Remember when JW was appointed – WTF is Jake White?
By all accounts PdV has got the credentials and he knows all the guys at junior level (like Jake did). Give him a chance to unearth the potential he speaks of and if he doesn’t walk his talk then have a go at his appointment.
In the meantime give him some support!
9 Jan 2008, 16:50 pm
Good old “young, give them time” logic
9 Jan 2008, 16:50 pm
Correct!!!
9 Jan 2008, 16:50 pm
To the Heineken fan Club
Anger, disappointment and dissatisfaction can build up to boiling point and reach a stage where one cannot handle the pressure anymore so they either commit suicide or murder their nearest and dearest or drink ‘Brannewynâ€
Please act responsible!
9 Jan 2008, 16:50 pm
g13g
Maybe – who knows?
9 Jan 2008, 16:52 pm
WC winners will have to make way for quotas
9 Jan 2008, 16:52 pm
Stawm,
I agree, repeating history’s mistakes is stupid.
But it isn’t too difficult to understand how a formerly repressed majority of the population are seeking to right previous wrongs done to them.
The majority appear to be doing so in a non-violent way. Some are educating themselves and attempting to address years of under development and inaccessibility to jobs that were deemed to be the sole domain of the minority white population.
South Africa has 50 million people now, of which 40% are unemployed. Heyneke Meyer is now one of those 40%, but i bet he has a great chance of finding employment elsewhere in the country or the world because of the experience, development and opportunities that he has been afforded in SA over the years, unlike many other unfortunates.
A non-white man is now the coach of the Boks. He seems a fair man, a driven man. He has sought roles to gain experience in readiness for this day. Good luck to him and his Boks. Give him a chance. He might surprise everyone if given that chance. Then again, maybe he’ll fail.
9 Jan 2008, 16:55 pm
there be quotas for rugby media as well.
first black Keo web administrator?
9 Jan 2008, 16:57 pm
greatest,
He was probably chosen because he was well qualified enough to go up against HM.
Maybe his colour was the deciding factor, but I doubt if it was the sole factor.
That’s SA though. You can jump onboard and make the most of your lot and be positive, or you can levae the country like you did and cry about from the comfort of NZ. The days of yore that you long for are gone and are never coming back.
I hope to God that South Africa comes good and can stick its fingers up to the doubters that wish for it to fail! Ons Vir jou Suid Afrika!
9 Jan 2008, 16:57 pm
Worst case scenario – PDV selects his quota and SA get thrashed silly for the next 2 years. Surely then SARU will review his contract and chose another coach and ditch the quota nonsense in preparation for the next WC.
9 Jan 2008, 16:58 pm
“The majority appear to be doing so in a non-violent way. Some are educating themselves and attempting to address years of under development and inaccessibility to jobs that were deemed to be the sole domain of the minority white population.”
you need to do a little more research. Some people have just being sitting around since ’94 expecting payback.
9 Jan 2008, 17:01 pm
#89 I agree in essense of what you say there. I am glad he is only there for two years. If there is a dramatic change in the squad, it is more likely the next two yrs will be grey. On top of that, a wounded and down All Black Beast and a hyped Robbie Deans Aussie machine in the works.
few things to contemplate.
9 Jan 2008, 17:04 pm
Stodders
I have no problem with PdV’s appointment, this is a game of rugby after all. In fact I called this last year some time. He has my support 100%, unless/until he tries to pick a team that has to always please the politicians, then I refrain from supporting him, and with this I withhold all monies that I contribute along the way towards rugby, like DSTV, jerseys, live games etc.
However, there are instances where AA is being abused terribly, and this is a big mistake, like in engineering, medical, nuclear facilites, security etc.
Here I do not support it, because the long term ramifications could be extremely detrimental to all our society, and this far out-weighs the black numbers game that is being played now to appease politicians.
9 Jan 2008, 17:05 pm
Chillyboy
Gurthro (ahead of Heinkie?..not fair)
Pieterson
Habana
Hilton
??
??
??
??
9 Jan 2008, 17:07 pm
Can somebody give us a track record of the new coach please.
9 Jan 2008, 17:07 pm
well said Stawm,
not to mention, the 50,000 more white SA’s planning to leave this year
9 Jan 2008, 17:07 pm
Comment by stodders : January 9, 2008 @ 4:52 pm
a very fair post, but as with everything in SA rugby i want to know what the situation surrounding this appointment is.
10/15 comments, a sports bill with crazy provisions, reports of stofile vying for presidency, the undefeatable reformed markgraaft and of course LW as captain and his old man on the PC. one wonders just how much the defeat of Mbeki and his emphasis on merit, the proper meaning of the word, might prove in the longrun for SA rugby.
Good luck to Peter De Villiers, I will judge him on the fairness of his selections and the ability to withstand the contrivances of SARU.
9 Jan 2008, 17:08 pm
I see a lot of the normal guys on this site havent voiced an opinion. Most of the posters are vociferous in their rejection of de Villiers. I think most of the guys are adopting a “wait and see attitude”, which is probably the healthiest thing to do.
Mbeki said there wont be quota’s in the National side, this was accepted by SARU. MOST of us have said development is a good thing and most thinking people said it should come at a young age. If this means development of young players, then I’m all for it. de Villiers has the credentials to be given at least a chance by everyone. I yesterday picked him above HM, but saying there was little to choose between them. So the ” wait and see” stance is probably the wisest. But we should ALL get behind the new coach, he after all, is not responsible for being selected, he just threw his hat in the ring. Just my opinion.
9 Jan 2008, 17:09 pm
55# gerber
My researches also led to zilch, no GW or Boland colours, it seems.
Where did that reference come from in the first place?
Not that PdeV needed it to get appointed.
9 Jan 2008, 17:09 pm
track record?
“first black coach”
This is all we be hearing about in the next month or so.
9 Jan 2008, 17:12 pm
We must accept that Peter will make some mistakes in his selections, it is only human.
JW did the same, Ashwell and WO spring to mind immediately.
And I’m not so happy with Johan Muller either.
So, it will happen, no big deal.
Hell, he might not even play Luke Watson and drive Sir Watson to the edge….!
9 Jan 2008, 17:15 pm
101
Was always a bit skeptical about Mullers cap as well.
9 Jan 2008, 17:18 pm
gerber
Read #100, Obiwari, the other thread.
Apparently there was a Saru Boland and Saru Griqua team in those days.
That is where PdeV played.
9 Jan 2008, 17:18 pm
Stawm,
I know where you are coming from. Friends and family of mine are affected by AA and BEE in SA.
I know and am friends with a good number of South Africans who have travelled to London to find work. South Africans are revered around the world for their work ethic. I work with a couple and I can’t fault them (apart form their sense of humour – drier than the Kalahari
). They will mostly find jobs wherever they go because of this. That should be a positive.
But until the unemployment total comes down though (by around half of what it is), i can’t see the politicians letting up on it because the unemployed population are key voters, and they need AA and BEE to keep their hopes alive in the South African dream.
And for many South Africans who don’t want to leave, I imagine it is a difficult thing to have to accept. I really do feel for you. In all parts of the world right now, the competition for work is hotting up, and many indigenous people are losing out to less skilled or less experienced people on the basis that they are too expensive to employ. It’s different I know to the situation in SA, but no less difficult to stomach.
The world’s not a nice place after all.
9 Jan 2008, 17:20 pm
Pietman
Have no ideal,I’m sure it come out in days to come. I came across Kiewiet van Niekirk as being
a GW halfback from ’83 onwards. Nothing from Boland.
9 Jan 2008, 17:23 pm
#105 “The world’s not a nice place after all.”
is that a violin playing in the background?
9 Jan 2008, 17:23 pm
greatest,
If Barack Obama wins the US Presidency, there will be many in the global media who will talk for weeks solely about him being the first black President of the USA. Make no mistake, that will be huge!
It will show that the USA is going some way to recognising the demons in its past and that any member of its society regardless of colour can rise to the top job. More importantly, it send a message to the world that you don’t need to be an ageing white male with links to oil to become the President
9 Jan 2008, 17:25 pm
107
Well said stodders. About time the yanks stopped delivering democracy and freedom via a JDAM smart bomb and an M-16
9 Jan 2008, 17:25 pm
Thanks Stodders
I could debate this topic ad nauseum but the end result will always be along the lines of which you outlined above.
The government have implented AA and BEE incorrectly and dont seem to be looking to fix it either.
I would have preferred the government to have identified key areas where nothing short of excellence is required, then to formulate a plan whereby promising candidates are trained and mentored into their new positions and be given time to adapt so they can excel.
A prime example here is the police force.
Anyway, pointless to continue this line of thought anyway.
Good luck Mr de Villiers.
9 Jan 2008, 17:26 pm
greatest,
It’s just a lone violin you hear from my end.
It seems to me from here like you’ve got Auckland’s Philarmonic Orchestra bashing out some morose tunes your end.
9 Jan 2008, 17:28 pm
stodders,
has the UK ever had a black PM or head of state?
9 Jan 2008, 17:28 pm
It is a pity that ability was not the deciding factor.
I hoped that it would be Heyneke, but alas it was not to be.
So I am willing to giv Div a chance. Go Bokke!
9 Jan 2008, 17:29 pm
#103 yes Pietman, think you right there. I played against SARA sides as well. He may have played for SA Barbarians as well. I will look again thru Toyota Annuals I have.
9 Jan 2008, 17:29 pm
bobby mugabe swears there are demons in the UK too.
9 Jan 2008, 17:29 pm
Fair enough Stawm.
Good luck Mr de Villiers from me too.
P.S. Imagine if PDV were to become the first coach to win a test in NZ since 1998. Now that would be great to see, more so for the post-match reaction on here
9 Jan 2008, 17:33 pm
#110 LOL..yes indeed, maybe a bit of Gabriel Yared music is appropriate at the moment.
some of my saffa mates have sent me very angry and depressing emails
9 Jan 2008, 17:34 pm
cab,
No, but we did have one of the first women Prime Ministers in the world – Thatcher. Next step is for a person from one of the ethnic minorities to accede to the top job, but I think that will be some time.
9 Jan 2008, 17:35 pm
greatest,
Care to post some of their rants. I could do with a giggle
9 Jan 2008, 17:35 pm
I am sure PDV will be talked up in the media and there will be lots of hype. Same for Aussie WITH ONLY the Abs knowing better.
9 Jan 2008, 17:35 pm
I think PDV’s first tough assignment will be to ensure that the newly budgeted for R200 Million does in fact go to black rugby development, and does not get wasted on endless fancy lunches at posh restaurants
amounting to over R100 000 – 00 each time like our deputy finance minister did last year.
(Apparantly they were business lunches??)
9 Jan 2008, 17:36 pm
come come, the colonial demons must be exercised before one can preach to the dominions. perhaps the queen can have an affair or something and produce an heir to the throne with decent teeth?
9 Jan 2008, 17:38 pm
cab,
We’ve got plenty of demons here in the past and present, and i’m sure we will create plenty for the future too.
As for ol’ Bobby, he will go go down as with Pol Pot, Hitler, Idi Amin etc. in the list of world’s most despicable despots. I really do wish someone would take him out to give Zimbabwe and its people a chance of survival.
9 Jan 2008, 17:39 pm
cab,
She’s exempt. She’s German really after all
9 Jan 2008, 17:41 pm
Stodders
But the Zim people keep voting him in?
9 Jan 2008, 17:41 pm
I can see an Asian Brit becoming Prime Minister before a black Brit. And I don’t see it being too far in the future.
Will that be acceptable?
9 Jan 2008, 17:41 pm
actually i think thatcher was after indira ghandhi and golda meir and a few others. SA’s first female prime minsister was PW Botha otherwise known as the groot krokodil.
9 Jan 2008, 17:42 pm
This is probably the only legible one I can post here..this is afterall a family site
This is short and sharp, from a friend who works at Skycity
“Now I know how the ABs felt after that game”
9 Jan 2008, 17:43 pm
Stawm,
So would you if you had guns pointing at you and threats to murder your family if you didn’t.
Anyway, Mugabe thinks up the totals on the toilet in the morning. The official vote is a token gesture. No one counts them.
9 Jan 2008, 17:44 pm
LOL @ cab
I rememeber watching PW Botha on the BBC reports during the 80s. First time i saw him, i though, “c*nt”.
9 Jan 2008, 17:46 pm
is there much difference bewteen Hitler and Mugabe ??
9 Jan 2008, 17:47 pm
cab,
I did say “one of the first” to cover my back. To qualify it more, Thatcher was the first woman to lead one of the developed world powers.
9 Jan 2008, 17:47 pm
greatest,
Yep, Hitler didn’t allegedly have syphilis
9 Jan 2008, 17:48 pm
Same old, Same old in Africa…
well, theres always Namibia
9 Jan 2008, 17:50 pm
tell you one thing if Peter Div manages to win a test in NZ, I will vote for him as president of SA and the UN.
9 Jan 2008, 17:52 pm
wounded and demoralised AB beast???
Peter got work to do
9 Jan 2008, 17:58 pm
#109. Stawm, you talk about ‘mentoring’ – implying that DeVilliers and his ilk (i.e. aspiring black coaches) need mentoring.
But he was one of Jake White’s mentors – the other was experience itself. So why does he need more mentoring? Simply because of his colour?
9 Jan 2008, 18:13 pm
cab,
I hope he does, just to see what excuses come from it.
9 Jan 2008, 18:24 pm
4 more years…makes 24.
9 Jan 2008, 18:30 pm
Like Obama in the States Presidency race so is PdV the best man for the SA rugby job, lets see if the yanks are as brave as our rugby administrators in sticking with the best candidate.
Obama is head and shoulders the most credible and with most integrity amongst that mob, but will he suffice through all the dirt?
PdV is a down to earth rugby man with no airs and graces, but one can sense a degree of astute inner belief and rugby based insight in him, lets hope he’s given the latitude to utilize his abilities freely.
9 Jan 2008, 18:33 pm
Stodders your summary(earlier) exactly sums up SA’s dilemma. If one takes time to analyse the detail, one can see that the rulers and the disadvantaged the world over, swop roles and favor themselves and their supporters, once power is achieved. We are seeing good examples of this in Africa as we speak but it is not limited to Africa and certainly not to black folk. For example, when the Nationalists came to power is ’48, they almost immediately set about giving their support base and electorate(poorly educated blue-collar Afrikaaners) job advantages in government. When I grew up in the 70′s, rarely did one find an english-speaker working on the railways, post office, police etc. Blacks were employment was limited to the menial jobs like cleaning the floor or serving the tea. English speakers were verboden. Roll on the years to 1994 and the same game played itself out, just in slightly different technicolor. White teachers were made redundant to be replaced by under-qualified black teachers etc. It’s bloody disingenious and highly upsetting but its the way of politics and the power that accompanies it. We are seeing this again in the appointment of our latest coach and I’m not surprised. And it shouldn’t have been a shock to anyone of us. We are just fortunate that PdV happens to be a very good candidate. Not the best because HM was arguably the best qualified but PdV brings something else good to the party which HM doesn’t. He’s had serious experience with our top youth talent and I for one find that very attractive. But the discrimination in appointments in this country leaves me cold.
9 Jan 2008, 18:37 pm
skopskiet,
Obama is a politician. At the end of the day, for chosing that profession, he has little credibility to start with.
If he does win the US Presidency, there will be few, if any, who will throw the quota tag at him. It’s not that long ago since the race riots of the 60s. The US has some way to go to redress the historical injustices that the slaves had to suffer, but they are heading in the right direction to do just that. I wish my own country could do as well.
Black Americans took nearly 50 years to get to where they are today, yet still they haven’t achieved parity fully. SA in its current guise has been going since 1994. You guys should be proud of what you have achieved in such a short space of time.
9 Jan 2008, 18:38 pm
you rugby palukas will never be happy, especially the bull clowns==give the guy a chance.secondly forget about luke watson,hyt sy naam gatgemaak en sal nooit vir die bokke speel nie.U GO PIETIE ons moet net agter hom staan.
9 Jan 2008, 18:38 pm
Tassies. I agree with post 140. Well put.
9 Jan 2008, 18:40 pm
And in my earlier missive, I don’t mean to undermine PdV’s skills. He might have been given the appointment on the basis of race but I personally chose him becuase (1) I suspect his style of rugby will be more enjoyable than HM’s(and Jakes for that matter) but (2) I HOPE that he will chose his strongest team(on merit) with the least interference from polititians because they want to see their chose candidate perform(read win). Its not just about the players. Its now also about the coach. He must win or that bunch of morons on the PC have egg all over their make-up.
9 Jan 2008, 18:43 pm
skopskiet
Obama won’t make the cut, sorry.
His Kenian connection will catch up will him soon.
Wait for it, it is going to get nasty.
9 Jan 2008, 18:48 pm
Did I hear right on the background news? Did Hills win New Hampshire?
9 Jan 2008, 18:50 pm
Skop you must be very happy mate.
You’ve called JdV all along.
9 Jan 2008, 18:58 pm
Pietman,
I hope Obama wins, or anyone except Hilary for that matter. The world needs a fresh face in American politics. Sharing the Presidency between the Houses of Bush and Clinton over the past 20 years has not been good for them or the rest of us.
9 Jan 2008, 19:01 pm
agree.
America has lost its shine.
They are the polecats of the world just now due to some dreadful decisions and the world needs them to caring less greedy face.
9 Jan 2008, 19:06 pm
win at all costs is not working like it used to. By way of example one can look at Oz cricket right now.
9 Jan 2008, 19:07 pm
Comment by stodders : January 9, 2008 @ 6:13 pm
doubt there’ll be many excuses other then from the bulls, but imo i doubt it will happen, not because his black, brown or green but what he’s been quoted as saying ito of his style, who he wants to pick as captain and the 10/15 comments.
I think if he changes JW’s RWC squad, we will come stone last in the 3N with Deans coaching Oz. I like his attacking style, but believe SA strengths lie elsewhere and he like many cape coaches will focus on the backline to the exp of the pack.
9 Jan 2008, 19:10 pm
wouldn’t it be nice to see Obama win to the top office eventually. One man doesn’t shape foreign policy but it would be accurate to say that Bush presents the face of all that is bad about america and little of the good. Perception is everything.
9 Jan 2008, 19:14 pm
I think he has to change some of the squad members Cab. I know I would. At least three that I can think of and two forced. But if you are refering to wholesale change then I agree with you.
I’d also like to think that he will consult with JW. It’s the sensible thing to do.
9 Jan 2008, 19:15 pm
stodders
I hope Obama wins, i like him.
But during his last visit to Kenia he might have just made the wrong moves.
I had a mail today, Kenian guy in Oz.If it is true what he says, and the US media gets wind of this, he is ‘dead’.
9 Jan 2008, 19:19 pm
136 Rex
No you didnt read the posts leading to that post. My point about mentoring relates to AA and BEE and not PdV.
9 Jan 2008, 19:19 pm
We have had some very good Cape coaches in the past. Just not in recent times. Fester was from the Platteland. Small was a forwards exponent. Before him was Solomons who was successful.
9 Jan 2008, 19:24 pm
yeah I shouldn’t imagine that anyone in his right mind would suggest that PdV needed mentoring. Quoted out of context. Happens all the time.
9 Jan 2008, 19:25 pm
must be bad Piet.
you know what the yanks are like. If its there they’ll find it.
9 Jan 2008, 19:25 pm
Comment by TASSIES : January 9, 2008 @ 7:14 pm
Other then injuries, the only change I can see is for Os who is retiring and the re-introduction of Spies if fit, JW first choice. For Os, Guthro is being nurtured, but purely on merit, there is one young loosehead that has torn everyone up, Heinke.
who else u thinking?
9 Jan 2008, 19:29 pm
I’m thinking that I could do better than Olivier. Afraid Willemse is no longer Bok material unless he undergoes an overhall. Van den Berg can be bettered. thats three off the top of my head.
9 Jan 2008, 19:31 pm
yip fair enough on those three, thought u meant from run-on XV.
9 Jan 2008, 19:35 pm
okay. I’ll put money on Alastair being re-appointed backline coach. Can’t say yet who will coach the forwards because that depends on personal decisions by some of the obvious candidates. If I’m right,then the WC squad will remain relatively unchanged. We are also likely to see that young Bulls fullback enter the frame and Conrad Jantjes. Both are outstanding players. Need nurturing and game time though. We will also see a bit more of Hylton lobberts(our petulant youngster).
9 Jan 2008, 19:36 pm
poor old meiskiekind, one of the best dummy passes in the game, dummies the oppo by passing to the linesman at least once per game, thats called thinking out of the box.
9 Jan 2008, 19:39 pm
Hoskins’s comment today made the hot seat even hotter.
9 Jan 2008, 19:39 pm
there’s Chilliboy too. Lot of nurturing maybe but he’s there. The run-on IX is going to be a bit tricky for now but in 12 months we should see a gradual changing of the guard. Guys get injured.
9 Jan 2008, 19:42 pm
there’s also a young 20 year old flyhalf playing WP under 21 who’s not half bad. Ricardo Croy in the right hands has the potential to go very far. Good pedigree too. They’re out there if one is looking.
9 Jan 2008, 19:52 pm
yes, good player chilliboy, lobberts might feature too, but they are not the best in their position, they are also too young and inexperienced. Lobberts is competing again Juan Smith and chilliboy against John Smit and Bismarck, both have considerably more exp.
REally depends if SA want to win test matches in 2008.
9 Jan 2008, 20:51 pm
Its kind of a pleasure to have two, no three, level headed and objective thinking bloggers on here similtanously Tassies, Stodders and Pietman, quite a rare pleasure.
9 Jan 2008, 21:09 pm
A good point was made by a black poster on this site the otherday. A white coach – even with the best intentions- may not be able to relate to black players well enough for them to feel comfortable playing for him. So maybe a coloured coach will be able to relate to both black and white players, and maybe this will allow both black and white players to perform to their full potential. Just a theory. I hope so.
Matfield has said in the press before that he has no objection to playing for PdV. So stop your stupid debate please. Besides, matfield is a professional, and proud of his country – of course he would play. But will the PC let him if he plays for Toulon?
I just hope that Pieter has the humility and grace to call in experienced guys like Jake and Meyer and the rest of the S14 coaches like Muir to get advice from different perspectives – it can make all the difference, and a problem that looks big from one perspective can be diminished by looking at it from another angle. I think he is a smart enough guy to do that though. I alo hope that they hire Meyer as director of rugby.
9 Jan 2008, 21:27 pm
skopskiet,
and dont forget your right honorable self.
well the boks have got your man as coach, salt of the earth, true south african and all the other horsemanue that emanates from your fingers…the proof is in the pudding so to speak. oh yes, we shall now see. no more white, no excuses.
9 Jan 2008, 22:12 pm
This is why I left South Africa, not because DeVilliers is black but because the better man does not get the job.
Heyneke has transformed Bulls rugby, brought it into the professional era. He has been key in setting up the structures and processes at the Bulls. In actual fact he is a great business man, equivalent to a director or Vice Presedint of a company. Guiding the people in the company with his experience and making sure that he doesn’t have to be there to micro manage.
This is what you need in a truly great leader.
Devilliers is just a coach, nothing compared to Heyneke, yet De Villiers gets the job.
Nothing against De Villiers but Screw South Africa!
Hopefully Heyneke comes back to the Bulls now!
9 Jan 2008, 22:43 pm
Aah little cabbage patch, so you already wishing the mans demise, good on you, as for your exalted one you know just exactly what I think of that two faced twat.
9 Jan 2008, 23:09 pm
Just to jolt your memories!
Johm ONeill said he will not accept any second rate side from any nation.
He has a foreskin as well as foresight!
9 Jan 2008, 23:09 pm
johm = john
9 Jan 2008, 23:16 pm
unlike you i have not wished anyone’s demise, but the proof is in the pudding and not many are going to be thrilled if an RWC squad is carved up with poor results from a SARU appointment.
10 Jan 2008, 04:28 am
come on guys, whats the worst thing that can happen, 49-0
10 Jan 2008, 05:30 am
no, the worst thing would be loosing to England in a Quarter final!
10 Jan 2008, 08:08 am
God but some of you people are pathetic. It’s bad enough that PdV is undermined by his own union in more or less the same breath that his appointment is announced – was it really necessary to say his skin was a factor – but the knee-jerk crapola from people who can’t see the racism inherent in condemning the man before he’s even out of the blocks only serves to show why transformation is so necessary.
As others have pointed out, JW wasn’t exactly man of the moment when he was appointed. The Bulls-types didn’t want him either because they’re too busy thinking they own rugby and banging on about reverse racism to see over the kraal fence. That The Freedom Front P*es has entered the fray sums it all up really.
I wish PdV every success in what must be the toughest job in world rugby. It’s a thankless task – and all the more so when fans bay for your blood and call you a spanner before you’ve even had one match.
Nice one guys. Just keep on with proving why the old racism chestnut isn’t going to go away any time soon. Those getting their jocks in a knot about this are too thick to see that they’re as much a part of the problem as any of the ANC conspiracies they hold so dearly to their chest.
10 Jan 2008, 08:37 am
Tacitus jumped.
10 Jan 2008, 09:08 am
PDV is just as qualified as Jake was and deserves to be given every opportunity to succeed. SARU have given him a 2 year contract so if they have got it wrong they have time to fix it.
Heynecke’s big mistake was that he said he would quit if not picked. SARU has had 4 years of battles with Jake White and I am sure when HM started calling the shots at the interview stage a number of Presidents were put off.
Personally my choice was Heynecke but having said that for 3 years I wanted John Smit dropped for Gary Botha and we all know how that turned out.
Good luck Pieter!
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