Lions ponder pivots
22 Jan 2008
Filling the void left by Andre Pretorius will be the Lions’ biggest challenge in 2008.
The Lions skipper is recovering from surgery to his foot and will miss the Super 14, a telling blow considering his influence for the Johannesburg franchise last year. The big question facing Loffie Eloff concerns Pretorius’s replacement, and whether the new No 10 will be able to steer the Lions to the play-offs.
Louis Strydom is the logical choice having deputised for Pretorius last year, while Earl Rose, Jaco van Schalkwyk and Eastern Province recruit Michael Killian have also been listed by Eloff as potential candidates.
Lions centre Jaco Pretorius told keo.co.za nothing has been finalised just yet.
“The No 10 position is by no means cemented at this stage. Louis, Jaco and Earl are all in good shape and Michael Killian is somebody Loffie is very excited about. We haven’t seen much of him in a match situation and the proof will be in the pudding when he gets his chance in the warm-ups.
“It is obviously a big blow to lose Andre, but I don’t think we’re in big trouble. We beat the Crusaders with Louis at flyhalf last year and he had an excellent Currie Cup. I’m confident about our depth this season.”
Strydom finished the domestic tournament with a personal tally of 110 points. Although he seems a logical replacement, he is certainly the more conservative option at No 10. Rose lacks sufficient weight to man the flyhalf channel but possesses great attacking attributes as exhibited in the Currie Cup play-offs last season. Van Schalkwyk is another who boasts an underrated attacking flair at 10 having played there in the 2006 Currie Cup when the Lions won eight on the trot.
The make-up of the backline will also draw much interest. Jaque Fourie has been ruled out with an injured groin until the first Super 14 match against the Cheetahs. On his return, the Springbok No 13 will play outside centre for the Lions which means Eloff will have to juggle Jaco Pretorius once again.
However, Pretorius is determined to repel the utility label and is pushing for an opportunity to settle.
“We haven’t really talked about where I will play this season, but I have requested that I stay in one position,” he said. “If I was selfish, I’d say 13 is the only position I want to play, but I really don’t mind whether I’m standing at inside centre, wing or prop, as long as I’m receiving a consistent run.”
Eloff experimented with several centre-combinations last year, one which saw Pretorius play inside Fourie. Although he favours 13, Pretorius admits the new laws could alter the role of the inside centre in the coming months.
“It is going to be interesting because the new laws and the space behind the scrums means No 12 will not be as direct as it used to be,” he said.
By Jon Cardinelli
49 Comments
22 Jan 2008, 14:28 pm
Have any dragons seen this new boy play? Strydom did improve as the season progressed, but did not have the same flair as AP. Rose, once he got over his personal problems also showed some promise, and played some good rugby for the Lions towards the end of the season. Van Schalkwyk never got a decent rum at flyhalf, so may be a bit rusty. Maybe Killian is the backup we need for AP?
22 Jan 2008, 14:48 pm
The Lions, Stormers and Cheetas will suffer big time this year. As usual….
The question is, which one of these three unions will end in the top 10?
22 Jan 2008, 14:50 pm
Yo, jou yo-yo is jouwaarlik weer gebreek.
Verrassing, nee ek dink nie so nie.
22 Jan 2008, 14:55 pm
Andre Pretorius leaves no void.
22 Jan 2008, 14:58 pm
and my brother in law, a lions man till the end (commendable anyway) still thinks ap was the preferred guy for the wc? the guy nearly lost us the game vs tonga and is crocked again.
cmon! now butch is a loss.
22 Jan 2008, 15:05 pm
Bullsmaakseer
Julle gaan een moerse ontnugtering kry met die aanvang van hierdie seisoen!
Moet nie hier kom huil as julle die span is wat weer die wooden spoon vat nie!
Iets wat die stormers nog nooit gedoen het nie!
22 Jan 2008, 15:05 pm
Jaco is an exciting player and clearly confident.
But the reality is pivot isn’t the only position in which the Lions are sorely lacking depth.
Loffie must be commended for the faith and loyalty he’s placed in his young troops. They’ve repaid him with gutsy performances that have seen them punch above their weight.
But:
Who’s the back-up to Heinke at loosehead?
Are they going to be able to field a tighthead with Super 14 experience?
Are their locks big enough beyond the size of their hearts?
Who’s Baywatch’s back-up?
Who’s the back-up to Van Zyl at scrumhalf?
Jaco might have to play at inside centre because La Grange is ordinary and Molefe lacks Super 14 experience.
A lack of experience all-round is the main problem here…
22 Jan 2008, 15:06 pm
I meant Vermaak – not Van Zyl. I know Van Zyl is Vermaak’s deputy, but exactly what Super 14 experience does he boast?
22 Jan 2008, 15:10 pm
Hoops,
iets wat die Stormers ook nog nooit gedoen het……Wen n Super 14!!!
my maat alles wat julle se…het n antwoord terug
22 Jan 2008, 15:17 pm
Puff, granted there is lack of experience, here, but how do we let the players get experience? They have to play S14 to get the experience. I think this team’s confidence will be high this year after narrowly losing to FS in th CC final.
While always hopeful for a playoff placing, watch this team move to mid table this year,and play offs next year.
22 Jan 2008, 15:18 pm
who cares
Louis Strydom?? LOL..no names
22 Jan 2008, 15:18 pm
Hoops, how does 75-14 sound to you Stormertjies?? I’ll rather take 100 wooden spoons than to loose 75-14.
How did you feel? I can only imagine. Sies tog.
Please, if you mention the Bulls in the future, rather refer to the SUP14 Champs. Its more of a true reflection isnt it?
22 Jan 2008, 15:23 pm
YAAAWN!!!
22 Jan 2008, 15:25 pm
#10
dreams are free my Tvl brother
22 Jan 2008, 15:33 pm
We ate the Lions 31-7, Cheetas 24-20, Stormers 49-12 and the Sardines in the final.
Every year we demolish the Stormers in the SUP14. Just look at the scores.It seems as if the Stormers have massive respect for the champs.
22 Jan 2008, 15:39 pm
Youngsters need opportunities, to be sure.
But a team needs to be well-balanced and have a good few experienced heads to go the distance.
What’s that talk about a rugby team’s spine – 2, 3, 5, 8, 9, 10, 12, 15? These positions should be cemented by fantastic players and/or veteran warhorses with savvy.
Consider the RWC Boks as an example:
2. Smit 3. Van Der Linde 5. Matfield 8. Rossouw or Burger 9. Du Preez 10. james 12. De Villiers or Steyn 15. Montgomery
Let’s look at the Sharks in last year’s Super 14 too:
2. Smit 3. Botha 5. Muller 8. Kankowski 9. Pienaar 10. James 12. Barrit 15. Montgomery
Now let’s look at the Lions for this year:
2. Wepener 3. ? 5. Van Zyl 8. Van Niekerk 9. Vermaak 10. Strydom 12. J Pretorius 15 Van Schalkwyk
See what I mean…
22 Jan 2008, 15:40 pm
Greatest, dreams are what made men do the impossible through history. Stanley, Livingston, Churchill, Hilary, Costeau, Ford, Daimler, Nelson, Wellington, Montgomery, and the list can go on. These guys have a dream, as do their fans.
Last year these boys did more than anyone gave them credit for. They have the confidence of success.
22 Jan 2008, 15:41 pm
Don’t get me wrong, I hope the Lions prove me wrong.
I just don’t understand why Loffie hasn’t brought in some experienced heads.
Let’s see if he brings anyone in with the draft.
22 Jan 2008, 15:43 pm
17…Please, don’t make us Bulls laugh man. You’re in the same boat as those Stormers..useless 2 teams with the cheetas a short head behind you
22 Jan 2008, 15:46 pm
#16 well said. I totally agree.
#17 you are right there, you did have the most destructive scrum in the comp last year. I will watch you guys simply to see vd Merwe in action. That boy reminds me soo much of a young Hein Rodgers.
22 Jan 2008, 15:55 pm
Bullsmaakseer, lets talk again at the end of the year.
# 20 If we can build on that with some patience, we can surprise again this year.
22 Jan 2008, 16:10 pm
20. Greatest, as one who is anti-province and very knowledgeable about props – how do you rate two of our tightheads: Garry Pagel and Tommie Laubscher?
22 Jan 2008, 16:11 pm
22. should be ex-tightheads.
22 Jan 2008, 16:13 pm
Gawd g13g is annoying… Always with his little Dutch heroes and the ‘Great TvL’…
YAWN!
22 Jan 2008, 16:25 pm
#5 Ranger, Your brother in law is a good man. Very loyal to his team. I can understand his feeling as I’m also a Lions man. But Pretoors is past his best in recent times it looks like hes made off glass. I think I’m gona call him the glass man from now on.
22 Jan 2008, 16:47 pm
#22
re: Gary Pagel
He was the strongest scrummager in SA IMO post ’95 RWC. He lacked du Randt loose game but was IMO, a stronger scrummager. When he started in EP, he was a tighthead until Willie Meyer, another EP boy came onto the scene. Pagel should have played out his prime in SA but he went up to the NH and destroyed everyone.
re: Tommie Laubscher,tighthead
the man from nowhere, who destroyed the number 1 loosehead in SA at the time(’92/93) Heinrich Rodgers. He was highly rated but was not selected for RWC ’95 because of his fitness levels. I don’t believe he ever worked out ina gym during the time he was playing. traditional to the core.
The strongest scrummaging tighthead IMO since ’92 was Lood Muller. Very underrated scrummager. A quiet worker in the tighty during his time.
22 Jan 2008, 16:49 pm
Michael Killian
Good see a EP boy there
22 Jan 2008, 16:57 pm
GreatestGerbil,
There is no Transvaal. Or Northern Transvaal. Or Natal. Or Pietersburg. Or Warmbaths. Or Yugoslavia. Or Soviet Union. Or East Germany. Or Rhodesia. Or South-West Africa. Or Salisbury. Or Verwoerdburg.
Do you feel like you’re been cryogenically frozen for decades?
22 Jan 2008, 17:02 pm
Katman,
WTF?, Please, why does such trivial matters offend you??. This is why we live in democracies my friend.
22 Jan 2008, 17:04 pm
I’m not offended. Just a little dismayed at your lack of 21st century knowledge.
22 Jan 2008, 17:14 pm
Katman,
I never agreed with the “suga coating” policies of the ANC and I see no reason to personally go along with them. I acknowledge the greater good of such changes BUT what tangible results for the people do they serve?. yes, I know, I am of the old school But I remember the old days but not necessarily the old ways.
22 Jan 2008, 17:29 pm
Reading your post g13g (26), I think I would enjoy having a beer with you. Well until we start talking about transformation or the Bulls.
22 Jan 2008, 17:34 pm
No, you wear your old-school conservatism like a badge. You really like what it says about you (despite your holier-than-thou protests to the contrary), otherwise you wouldn’t continue to flaunt it in such a public manner. Everyone here knows it, so you might as well save yourself some ballache and stop denying it.
22 Jan 2008, 17:40 pm
Katman, what does conservatism really mean?
22 Jan 2008, 17:50 pm
odogg, I must run – don’t have time for a discussion. Conservatism, in his case, is a nostalgic yearning for the way things were. When life was easy and blacks were nobodies. Ask him about his old SA flag which he proudly flies in NZ. People only do this for one reason. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
22 Jan 2008, 17:56 pm
#33
thanks Dr Phil. You seem to want to politicalise everything..there is no crime to remember the past pertaining to rugby. We still live in democracies my friend.
to each their own. I am but a simple passionate supporter of rugby.
22 Jan 2008, 18:03 pm
#35 “When life was easy and blacks were nobodies”
and today, the ANC have ensured the tables have turned??
I “remember” the “old days” BUT not the “old ways”
I grew up in a very christian family devoid of politics BUT one – pride in my province. We can’t be blamed for the govt at the time and their actions.
look at SA now, its gained a weird equality but the quality of life has really gone done for many still. The visions of Mandela are far from being realised.
22 Jan 2008, 18:27 pm
How is it that the kiwi coaches can get so much out of their mediocre players.
I sse more of the same old this year for the poor old Lions. They don’t even have a settled centre combination or flyhalf, a recipe for disaster.
22 Jan 2008, 18:46 pm
Even though the Lions were mostly excellent last year, despite the lack of glamour boys in the team, the Prawvins ‘kenners’ talk about ‘the same old..’, With Typical Prawvins confidence.
We shall see.
22 Jan 2008, 18:48 pm
Lions fans live in hope,
nothing wrong with that.
22 Jan 2008, 19:20 pm
#35..Here here,Agree 100%
Hit the nail on the head…We all know
22 Jan 2008, 19:23 pm
Lions backline IMO should be:
9.Vermaak
10.Jaco-so thin in this department its ridiculous
11.Ludik
12.Molefe
13.J.Pretorius
14.Boshoff/Killian
15.J.Fourie
22 Jan 2008, 20:46 pm
Interesting backline Mshiniwami. Fourie used to be a hot fullback once upon a time. Tell me about Molefe.
22 Jan 2008, 21:37 pm
I do not care what the critics say – fact is the Mighty Lions will make it to the S14 semi’s.
23 Jan 2008, 01:28 am
#44 wow, thats taking the “hope” a little too far……………………………………………………………………………………………….into the Twilight Zone
23 Jan 2008, 10:39 am
#45 It would be nice, though!
23 Jan 2008, 14:16 pm
#2
Jammer om jou babbel te bars maar die bulle het ook baie harde werk voor hul
23 Jan 2008, 15:31 pm
Don`t worry boys, the Bulls will NOT win the S14 this year. So, we may be **** but you will join us as also rans this year.
And just for the record, we have a better Super rugby record than you guys and we have beaten you more in Super rugby than you have beaten us.
The Bulls fans have just showed (YET AGAIN) why they are considered as arogant. Read the posts.
This article really does not concern you guys, so why come on here and start giving proper supporters ****? Morons.
23 Jan 2008, 16:13 pm
odogg,
Thabang Molefe was backilne player of the yr at the Bulls u21′s in 05,plus was one of the nominees for IRB u21 Player of the yr in 05′.Was all conquering in that team forming a dangerous axis with Ruaan pienaar at 10/12.The Boy reminds me of Norm Berryman..Blockbursting!!!!Would make a nice foil with the hard running/angle runs of J. Pretorius.
Fourie is world class,has plently of pace,can play easily in the back 3;.
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