Give our boys a fair crack
8 May 2008
South African teams always start four league points down in the Super 14.
Once again it is down to two rounds in the Super 14 and one league win that separates teams two and seven.
Once again those who devised the structure of the tournament are commending themselves because any tournament in which the play-offs only get determined in the last week has to be a good one. At least that’s the self indulgence you will hear.
But the Super 14 is not a fair tournament. It favours the New Zealand and Australian teams because of travel determined by geography and it also gives half the teams a more favourable draw each year, which in essence means it is not a fair tournament.
The Super 14, like the Super 12, is weighted against South African teams.
This is not a gripe but a fact and yet we wonder why we continue to fail more than succeed.
Let’s take the Lions as an example. They are fair game and All Blacks legend Sean Fitzpatrick gave them a bollocking for their shabby performance against the Hurricanes in Wellington last weekend.
What Fitzpatrick did not say was that the Lions had been on tour for five weeks, jetting between New Zealand and Australia.
At most, New Zealand teams play three games in South Africa. Australian teams get two. Occasionally a New Zealand team will get an Aussie team on the way over or one on the way back and when they do you never hear the end of how demanding the schedule is.
This brings us back to the South African teams, for whom a short tour is four weeks.
The South African players in time have improved and learned to enjoy Australia and New Zealand, but no matter how much you enjoy a place the difference between three and five matches is a fortnight away from home and in all probability eight league points lost on the road.
When you consider that four league points have historically separated teams four and eight, you get to appreciate the impact of the additional two weeks away from home.
Given the circumstances and the disadvantage of the draw (based on geographics) the fact that South Africa invariably has one team in the semi finals and on most occasions two in the top five is a credit to the boys.
The reality is South Africa does not have the depth for five teams and neither does New Zealand. Australia also does not have the depth for four teams. But outside of the depth issue, the best South African teams do bloody well.
I don’t think we give them enough credit and I have been as guilty as the next person. Our expectations are high and we demand success every weekend. But the reaction too often is over the top.
Because of this South African inferiority complex, which too many still have, it seems improper to object to the schedule because then South Africans are accused of being an extension of Pommy whingers.
The obvious solution is for South African teams to play in Europe, but that doesn’t ever seem likely. South Africa, by playing in the Super 12, have improved New Zealand and Australia’s development of players, to the detriment of their own.
If there is to be an expansion to the Super 14 then it has to ensure the teams all play the same amount of games overseas and spend equal time away from home.
Otherwise we will be wasting our time again and continue to be the whipping boys of New Zealand and to a lesser degree Australia.
The point is the Kiwis are not that good and we are not that bad. But when we continue to give them an eight point tournament head start we will never know how good we can be in this tournament or just how ordinary their teams can look.
280 Comments
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 » Show All
8 May 2008, 13:40 pm
no one like my suggestion?
well, lets try again.
lets take the saffa teams as an example. lets say they played all the kiwi teams on tour one year. thats 5 games on tour. then their touring is done. the aussie teams then all play the saffa teams in south africa. the kiwis play all their games against aussie teams in aus.
the next year, it reverses.
sure, our teams will still play 5 games on tour but at least they will not have to hop the tasman as well.
we would still end up travelling more than either aus or nz teams but at least the tour lengths would be equal.
i admit, i am not great with logistics so if you want to shoot this idea down, feel free.
8 May 2008, 13:42 pm
ANYBODY, THOUGHT ON MY POST #47. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR WHAT U SAY.
8 May 2008, 13:42 pm
#47 Steph: I actually called for a return to the Cats in an article I wrote some time ago: http://www.sharksworld.co.za/2008/03/24/the-experiment-has-failed-bring-back-the-cats/
As you may recall, the Cats actually made the semi-finals two years running when they had a decent coach.
8 May 2008, 13:44 pm
#51 rangerman:
It sounds good to me
8 May 2008, 13:44 pm
#36 gizzard:
Not entirely true gizzard. I think some of the problem lies in the “pillaging” of the lesser Teams talent by the BIG Teams. Bulls. Sharks.
Sure the Bulls/Stormers should have a far better record than they actually have……..but the Sharks in particular, I should imagine, would have a pretty good record overall in Australasia.
8 May 2008, 13:44 pm
#47 Steph: I replied, but it’s awaiting moderation cos I posted a link to my website.
Basically, I wrote an article where I suggested that the Cats should be reformed, based on how shocking the Lions and Cheetahs are individually.
8 May 2008, 13:46 pm
#51 rangerman: They need to make each country have 5 teams for this to work and then one country still has the advantage which we will never have – but it does equalise a little!
8 May 2008, 13:47 pm
Steph the Cats were a disaster because of Ludekak. He did nothing for them and he is doing less for the Bulls. The Lions also have Ellis Park which is situated in the Mugabe of areas.
8 May 2008, 13:47 pm
#47 Steph: ???? don’t know !
8 May 2008, 13:48 pm
give the stormers any crack and they are happy he he..
BUT about the article, whatever mate! as a youngster that tours around a lot, you cant honestly tell met that our S14 player dont like tourng around, it is an experience… rather ***** and moan about DICKenson and the like rather than about a sniffy little issue like this…
if its doesnt kill you it makes you a better man, and we have a WC to show for all this S14 touring heartache… …
8 May 2008, 13:48 pm
#52 Steph:
Stephie,
The Force rise co-insided with the demise of the Reds.
As the Force got better……….the poor old Reds sank to the lowest depths in their proud History.
The Answer is Money…….The Force have/had plenty.
That’s my 2 cents worth anyway.
8 May 2008, 13:49 pm
#55 robdylan from Sharksworld.co.za:
so i go to sharksworld to check out your article?
8 May 2008, 13:51 pm
what the hell… i can post on any thread but the one where i have to post my predictions… can anyone maybe help?
8 May 2008, 13:51 pm
#51 Rangerman
The problem there is the SA public will not get the opportunity to see any NZ teams live for a year or so.
It’s still nice seeing those caliber players live even if thet do perhaps beat the side you support.
To me the travel factor depends more on the draw, ie. if you get off with 2 or 3 wins against teams you are better than then the tour goes great, if you start with losses then the travel factor can be blamed.
8 May 2008, 13:53 pm
#62 Steph: yes. Once at the site, search for the text “The experiment has failed”…
8 May 2008, 13:53 pm
#60 cane: Thats true – but the Lions union was rather well off as well – they where just totaly mis managed by all concerned! Cheetahs are just too poor!
8 May 2008, 13:53 pm
I have to agree to most of what keo has said but would also like to say that – and maybe it is our inferiority complex – that the Aussie and NZ refs treat our players/teams in the most appalling way with virtually every 50/50 decision going the way of NZ/Aussie teams which after about 12 years begins to feel like a well planned conspiracy to ensure that their best teams feature in the semis and finals. The fact is that Aus/NZ need us because without us the competition would literally collapse. Both these countries have serious issues to deal with, both from spectator appeal and player growth but they do not necessarily want us This goes to show how incredulous the Sharks/Bulls final was last year. A would wage a bet that the Aussie/NZ rugby lords will make sure that never happens again! The answer is that the competition must be grown and split to ensure that everyone travels the same amount. This would also take some of the boredom out of watching the same teams year after year. I think that SA teams playing in Europe may be short sighted and whilst the Heineken Cup has been great the fact that the weather etc is so different means that we would revert to big rolling packs wrestling in the mud again – just as we are starting to see SA sides using skill and pace through the backs and forwards and this tyle is suited to the Southern Hemisphere.
8 May 2008, 13:54 pm
Can someone do a comparison between how many games all SA S14 teams have won/lost on their first two games in Australasia and how many they have won/lost on their last 3 games on that tour. In other words do SA sides as a whole get better as the tour continues or simply fall away?And how does their win /lose rate for the first two games compare with the win/lose rate for Aussi and NZ sides in South Africa? Of course this does not take in to account that it is easier travelling from OZ/NZ to SA wrt jetlag than from SA to OZNZ or the quality of opposition, but if averaged over 3 or 4 years it may tell a story…….
8 May 2008, 13:54 pm
#63 daniel: ja daniel, but the following year you would get to see them all. whetting the appetite to see the greats like mccaw. would maybe increase crowd attendance as a spin off.
8 May 2008, 13:54 pm
Ek wonder of die Aussies en Nieu Seelanders onpartydige sheidsregters van Namibia sal aanvaar vir hulle wedstryde in Suid Afrikal!
8 May 2008, 13:54 pm
#49 Ed_the_Lion:
Actually Ed, this year I have often really enjoyed watching the Lions, Cheats and Highlanders. And I love it when they win.
(as long as they don’t beat my canes of course).
8 May 2008, 13:55 pm
#60 cane:
That is true, but why then cant the TVLRU get better funds. Really, they are in the middle of Josie, Arguably the richest country in Africa.
Also, does the Euro clubs not give a certain amount of money to the S14 unions when buying their players? If not, this is something that ALL S14 teams could do, becuase we are all losing players.
#57, Blueblood. Its true, Ludikak is the black night of SA rugby Apacolypse, but why did they do so well when De Vos was still captain. The coach was from NZ I think? Why cant they do it again?
8 May 2008, 13:56 pm
#64 robdylan from Sharksworld.co.za:
shot, gonna check it out now. Will post a reply
8 May 2008, 13:57 pm
#68
Maybe they need to do and IPL Cricket spinoff and base all the teams in one neutral country for the duration of the S14.
No excuses of home ground, travel etc. One way to see once and for all who is the real champ.
8 May 2008, 13:58 pm
#67 superba:
That is a bit unfair, becuase jet lag cathes you on such a long flight, and in this type of competition it DOES count. Why dont the NZ/Aus teams have the samy issue, they fly in the oppisite direction, no lag.
8 May 2008, 13:59 pm
I wish Rob.
8 May 2008, 14:04 pm
you cant argue with geography.
teams having to travel brings more to the game, in terms of spectators,BMT,challenge…etc
its time Saffas rise to the occasion and relish the opportunity to go play abroad.
8 May 2008, 14:04 pm
#76 PissAnt: No drinking for me… I need to go for a run. Bleurgh
8 May 2008, 14:05 pm
I say leave it the way it is. It serves us well every other 4 years, nuff said.
8 May 2008, 14:06 pm
#74 Steph. Try it . Jet lag differs wrt your direction of travel. It is a lot easier to travel one way than the other. It is not equal as I understand it. Any airline pilots / flight stewards out there to comment ?
8 May 2008, 14:07 pm
traveling west to east tends to nail you a lot worse than the other way round.
8 May 2008, 14:08 pm
Bollocks to all of this rubbish. I’m sick and tired of the same old excuses. You don’t hear the kiwi’s or aussies moan about the highveld when we bash them at altitude. The Sharks have proved it, the Stormers have proved it, the Bulls have proved it last year, we can win away.
It all comes down to coaching really. **** Muir went to Sharks, they started to play good rugby, Erasmus went to the Stormers, they started to play good rugby, Heyneke Meyer left the Bulls, they started to play bad rugby.
I don’t want to hear any more excuses. When the touring sides played long tours overseas they went by ship, and probably didn’t travel first class.
This is the professional era. You play to the whistle, and to the bounce of the ball and to any number of obstructions or impediments that get in your way and you don’t gripe, whine or harp on about anything. Thats what seperates the champions from the wooden spoons.
8 May 2008, 14:08 pm
#77 robdylan from Sharksworld.co.za: Like my dad always used to say; “Daar is nie pille vir domgeit nie” – suffer bra.
8 May 2008, 14:10 pm
expend the super 14 to Super 18 , get other countries involved , how about Namibia Tonga etc ?
8 May 2008, 14:13 pm
#71 Steph: True – Rugger should start working like football – transfer fees to the union if you “sell” your players would see alot af euros flowing in and youngsters whould be snapped up by unions so that they can develop them and potentially get a transfer fee.
8 May 2008, 14:14 pm
What I mean is that you play to the tune of the whistle and the bounce of the ball and you’ve got to be good enough to win despite the setbacks, otherwise you are never truly champions. Look at the All Blacks at the World Cup.
8 May 2008, 14:15 pm
jet lag directly preportional to spin of the Earth – with the spin or against it means greater or lesser effect. It is a factor to consider.
8 May 2008, 14:16 pm
#67 #80. Have just googled ” jet lag ” and the info is ” travel west if possible , as when travelling east jetlag is twice as bad because you lose time “. Oz/NZ teams travel west to SA , and SA teams east to OZ/NZ. Makes sense.
8 May 2008, 14:16 pm
Hiya all,
I’m looking for some opinions here please…
I’ve made some pretty precise predictions on my website for the final 2 rounds of the Super 14. WHen I say precise, I don’t necessarily mean they are going to be correct, I mean I have predicted exact scores and exactly how many tries each team will score in these final 2 weekends etc.
I have then taken these results, inserted them into the currect S14 table, and have come up with some interesting results. Do me a favour (and yourselves
) Click on my nick, you’ll see the link is the first story there. Then check it out and let’s talk… I’ll be waiting…
:-p
Don’t want traffic. Don’t money. Don’t have advertising. Just want some good rugby talk ahead of the last two weeks of the Super 14…
8 May 2008, 14:21 pm
Why not have a country host it as an event? One year SA hosts it and then NZ then Oz. Even in Neutral countries ie europe,japan etc.
If that wont work then play pool matches with each team playing 1 game at home and 1 away to each other. Have the semi final or quarters at the top placed teams home grounds and then have a neutral venue for the final like they do in the Champions league.
Could work.
8 May 2008, 14:22 pm
#79 superba:
I am not sure if you agree, disagree with me, but what you say are true. J.lag effects you differantly depending on which way you travel
#84 Gr8ter:
Exactly, we should get ou **** together. TheS12 unions and Sarfu should get together to protect the transferring of our players. What they can even do, is say, ok, the players dont pay full tax to the govenrment, but they pay the other part to the S14 Union “board”. That way, when a top priority player (Big Vic) wants to play over sea’s the S14 board could chip in… just a thought.
If we protected our players better, the Cheetahs could still have had: Marius Joubert, that windgat winger, Willem de Waal, Ollie le Roux. Could’ve turned those close games into wins…
8 May 2008, 14:23 pm
#77 robdylan from Sharksworld.co.za:
Nice article
8 May 2008, 14:25 pm
23 tight head:
The geographycal divide has both physiological and psychological effects. Initially, and especially, the travelling forward into time component has far more physiological effects and towards the end esp., the psychological effects are at its greatest.All this is clearly well known already hence we can raise these questions.
8 May 2008, 14:29 pm
Divide the S14 into two Conferences……..then expand it with 2 Argentine Teams, a Nippon and a Pacific Islands team.
Atlantic/Eastern Conference:-
Bulls,
Stormers,
Lions,
Spears,
Cheetahs,
Sharks,
Tucuman Condors,
Buenes Airies Tango’s.
Namibian Sandmen.
Pacific/Western Conference:-
Reds,
Tahs,
Force,
Brumbies,
Canes,
Chiefs,
Highlanders
Blues,
Pacific Mako’s.
Hiroshima Fallouts.
Top 3 teams in Each Group to meet in Playoffs. With lowest Qualifers getting only one life and the hardest games.
8 May 2008, 14:30 pm
# 86 Do you know of any way of turning the spin around? For the S14 tournament ?
8 May 2008, 14:30 pm
here mate, wake up in the morning, het a lekker body, play your fav sport and get paid handsomely for it, bit sorry bru, you have to go tour overseas every now and then… tough life hey, im sure there are 99% of alpha males that hate the idea of that kinda life…
8 May 2008, 14:34 pm
yes superba #94… if we decrease the nr of aussie teams to 2 and kiwi teams to 3 and SA teams to 9 then i think the travel arrangements would be about the same for all…
the S14 is good for SA rugby… mental and travel toughness and we get to play real teams or at least the Kiwis are real teams and not the pantsies in the northern hemisphere… cry me a sewage line…
8 May 2008, 14:36 pm
Is there then any real wonder then that WPStormers have consistently performed best in Australasia even in a bad season/s as when KvdM was running the show?
Smart people know that Noakes’ Sports Science Centre is WPSTormers secret weapon as they are the best not only in there time zone (north or south, and that is why he is essentially loaned out to the Univ.of Glasgow for e few years) but arguably east and west also.
8 May 2008, 14:36 pm
#93 cane:
Would still mix the pools a bit and play 1 home and 1 away. But not bad.
8 May 2008, 14:38 pm
#93 cane: Love the names & the idea – **** load of rugger to watch – will have to get rid of the missus if the idea cottons on! Coach potatoe delux – beer consumtion through the roof followed by AA meetings when no rugger is being played (probably never)!
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 » Show All
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.