Bok scrum expect AB onslaught
Springbok captain John Smit has highlighted the importance of outscrumming the All Blacks in the first Tri Nations Test in New Zealand.
It’s been a disappointing facet for the Boks, as they struggled in the first Test against Wales and then against a third-rate Italy front row. The man who lent them stability, BJ Botha, is not on tour while there is a possibility youngsters Brian Mujati and Beast Mtawarira could come up against Tony Woodcock and Greg Somerville.
Smit told Die Burger that this set-piece will present the most significant challenge of the 5 July fixture.
“The All Blacks have dominated their opponents in the scrums in every match they’ve played this season,” he said. “The All Blacks got the upper hand, despite England’s strong scrum. That’s a feather in their caps.”
The English didn’t provide much resistance for New Zealand, who scored comfortable victories in both of the two Tests. These were merely warm-ups for the upcoming clash against the World Champions.
“There are some Test matches that you know will be hard,” Smit said. “The All Blacks in New Zealand is one of those in which the physical aspect is non-negotiable.
“If you don’t stand up in that respect, you’re going to be on the back foot from the outset. We must not let ourselves down from a physical viewpoint.”
Smit said the absence of All Blacks captain of Richie McCaw won’t debilitate the hosts.
“The All Blacks would, of course, have liked Richie to be part of their team but there is no such thing as a weak All Blacks team. And they’re playing at home, which is a huge factor.”
The Bok captain also denounced the new laws. Saturday will be the first time he plays under the ELVs having spent the European season with French club Clermont.
“They never tried to reinvent the wheel before, so why do it now. There was nothing wrong with the old laws, and you couldn’t find an empty seat in stadiums in France.”
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:35 am
You have to wonder how **** and Gary Okay’ed BJ’s submission. They might not rate him either and know something we don’t.
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:36 am
*omission
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:40 am
# Dumb Supporter:
Rather read between the lines.
John Smit would have only gone to war on Saturday with one tight head, and that is BJ.
He knows better than anybody how the All Black front row are licking their lips, and also knows that he will be under pressure.
He has to be diplomatic, and cannot tell all of us that the coach has made a mistake.
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:47 am
John must say all he can before the match. After having his head scrummed through his arse on Saturday, he is pretty much going to battle to say anything.
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:52 am
It was a very,very risky to leave BJ at home and Smit knows it. Could mean trouble, but maybe it wont be too bad? Can’t Smit also play tighthead? He’ll move in there after the AB’s fold our tightheads into a interesting pretzel shape..
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:57 am
screw outscrumming the ABs parity alone would be fantastic!
ABs are smart. the ELV require a clever kicking game, and Carter under Deans at the Crusaders was brilliant this season with his kicking under ELVs. The ABs will keep the ball infield, and make it extremely difficult for the boks to find touch, so there will be few lineouts for us to exert our superiority there.\
The game will be tight, and we will need our loosies to dominate completely to have a chance. That said the weather will probably be atrocious in Welly on Friday and the ABs have the recent experience of playing Ireland there in the crappest conditions.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:00 am
Isn’t BJ’s exclusion due to him moving to Ireland at the end of this season???
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:03 am
well with a bad scrum you will all see why we need pienaar or better du preez there. i like januarie and think he is playing very well, but wait till he has to play behind a pressured scrum and then we will see what he is made off. i hope that bolla isnt on the bench cause he will really battle against the AB
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:03 am
#3 tight head:
“John Smit would have only gone to war on Saturday with one tight head, and that is BJ.”
Do you have proof of that (a quote or something similar) or is it just your opinion?
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:03 am
WPW , dont buy that , overseas players qualify to play for the boks.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:04 am
I watched a program on Saturday morning showing highlights of the ‘95 final. The All Black scrum was really demolished sometimes. I cant see the ex-Stormer forward coach creating a dominant Springbok scrum without some help.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:05 am
#7 wpw:
With that reasoning there are others who should have been excluded.
Secondly, even if a player was only available this year, wouldn’t you as new coach, playing in your first test against NZ in NZ, not select your strongest players.
Don’t tell me about building for the future please, this is not the time for that!!
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:05 am
Dazzler , people read into things how they want too , these days u dont seem to have much proof , that is very much evident of the some of the **** spurted out here nowadays (Articles and not postings)
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:06 am
#11 It is just a game:
The key phrase in that post was “ex-Stormer forward coach”… it shows what your opinion is based on.
Gary gold is the best forwards coach in this country and the Boks are lucky to have him
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:06 am
#6 munkiboi: As usual this game will be as tight as a ducks arse …. The proplem is that if we gain superiority in the loose will our scrum be able to keep a steady enough platform to allow adequate go forward ball ….. must play Guthro and CJ ….. we need experience for these tests … this test will probably come down to the kickers , hopefully Butch has his kicking boots on.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:07 am
#11 , thats cos Kobous alone weighed 200kg
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:09 am
#9 Dazzler:
Dazz it is my opinion.
That is what we all have here!!
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:10 am
#17 tight head:
Ok cool just checking, so its not fact then
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:12 am
#18 Dazzler:
Well Dazz it is an opinion based on what Smit has said in the past about BJ.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:14 am
I think what we’re all forgetting is, we will be facing an AB scrum that demolished the English scrum including Sheridan. Thats the same Sheridan that shoved BJ’s head up his own *** in the 36-0 game. However in the final and against CJ, Sheridan was nullified and at times even dominated.
i think we’re better off with CJ. Although I like a good strong BJ, sometimes it’s just not enough
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:16 am
Can anyone possibly explain the omission of BJ. Does he give away that many penalties? Are the coaches up to something? Have they identified something in the ABs ? They aren’t saying anything – which makes a change and is probably just as well. Any theories?
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:17 am
#7 wpw: I have no doubt that this is the reason.
#12 tight head: Such as? PDV made it clear that he was only considering two players from overseas – picked from Vic, Butch, Smit and Monty – and that he would prefer his entire squad to play locally. And he has managed to get all four those players to return here. So why on earth would he make an exception for BJ? He’s good, but he’s nowhere near the profile of the four mentioned above.
BJ’s move to Ireland cost him his Bok spot. And I expect CJ to be dropped pretty soon too. If his announcement had come any sooner, he wouldn’t be touring either. And, in a way, I respect that. PDV wants his squad available without delays and disruptions (and international prima-donnas). He doesn’t want a Benni McCarthy on his hands. Or a situation like in Argentina, where they can never get their players released for international duty.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:19 am
#19 tight head:
Like you have maintained previously, the margin in the scrums will probably be about six inches.
I don’t expect that our scrum will be shoved around, surely these guys are not that stupid that they wouldn’t have spent some serious time working on this aspect of their game?
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:20 am
If BJ was in the same ‘league’ as Smit or Butch then one can understand why PDV would want to select him even though he plays overseas.
He is not in their league and we did well at the WC without him.
I’m not saying he should not be selected. I think that he is replaceable and this is why the selectors have chosen Mujati (to invest in him)
Why then does PDV want Butch to return to play in SA?
He has always made it clear that he prefers our Springboks playing in SA.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:21 am
#14 Dazzler: My opinion was based on the fact that the Stormer’s scrum was probably the weakest of the Super 14 sides.The scrums is a facet were they will nead some experts to help out.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:21 am
In the combination of Woodcock and Sommerville you have 2 of the best technicians in the game.
Very importantly they are comfortable setting the scrum platform from the hit at a low level.
That is the key, and if we play Guthro and CJ there is no doubt that those 2 scrum too high, and that will be a disadvantage against Woodcock and Sommerville.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:22 am
#22 katman: Howdy kat, couldn’t agree more with you on your post on BJ above.
Min dae to daddy time?? Getting excited yet? Hopefully you are getting some sleep.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:22 am
#21 rex:
My theory is this. People keep comparing Mujati and BJ, but I don’t think that’s the case. We should be comparing CJ and BJ.
I believe the Bok coaches view CJ as their first choice tighthead, BJ as number 2, and Mujati as the up and coming youngster at number 3. In light of the fact that BJ is now off overseas (so is CJ but they didnt know it at the time) and wont be playing for the Boks all that much due to the restrictions in place, they figured they might as well start grooming Mujati to take over as the number 2 tighthead in the squad, behind CJ. Hence the reason they selected their tightheads as 1. CJ and 2. Mujati.
This theory makes the most sense to me, and I think that is the case. But now watch them select Mujati to start and blow my theory out the water!
People are too quick to come up with these conspiracies, naming racial reasons etc etc. when their might just be a logical rugby explanation
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:26 am
#25 It is just a game:
Oh really?? Did we watch the same S14 then? Only the last few games where the Stormers lost a number of props to injury and Mujati was played out of position did they struggle.
They dominated the Bulls scrum in the first game of the season, as well as a number of other teams scrums, including the Hurricanes until JD Moller was injured and Mujati had to switch sides. If i remember correctly they even shoved the Sharks around a bit…
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:29 am
#22 katman:
I hear you, and understand your point.
The thing is that whatever the long term plans are eventually about overseas contracted players, I think still remains to be seen.
My main point is in this test you would play your very best players, irespective of any other reason but to beat the All Blacks in NZ.
The coach would tell me that is exactly what he is doing.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:30 am
#29 Dazzler:
We watched the same S14 mate.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:34 am
#28 Dazzler:
Dazz, your theory makes good sense.
However it boils down to who is the better tight head?
CJ or BJ?
I believe that if you got the qualified opinion of every loose head who played in the S14 this year, that the answer would be BJ by a long way.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:34 am
Does any1 have a clue as to the possible make up of the bok team that will be named tomorrow?
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:35 am
#30 tight head: Hey tight-head, I enjoy reading your posts about the scrums and agree with you on most points. I foresee the big problem not really being with CJ and Guthro, they hopefully won’t get shunted too badly. But if there is an injury during this tour, we are in big kak. Also by playing Guthro and CJ, you have to have Mujati on the bench to cover injuries, whereas if you started with CJ and BJ you could have Beast on the bench, who I believe would have a bigger impact at the end stages of the game.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:38 am
#32 tight head:
Thats fine and that’s your opinion, personally I might even have gone for BJ. But i think it is much of a muchness, BJ is strong in the scrums but gets chucked around like a rag doll n the loose. CJ is a good scrummager and a monster in the loose.
So the coach believes CJ is the better option
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:39 am
#35 Dazzler: BJ cleans out the rucks like a legend. I agree not as effective with ball in hand.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:40 am
cj,smit,beast,bakkies,victor,juan,hulk,joe, ricky, butch,bryan,jean,adrian,odwa,percy
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:41 am
i might be 1 or 2 out
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:41 am
#36 Francois Steyn is over-rated:
i dont know, for some reason for me BJ looks too small and too weak on his feet (scrums aside), much like Gary Botha. They remind me of each other
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:41 am
The debate on whether BJ should be there or not is a bit futile, he’s not there.
What the boks have do going into this test is ensure at least parity in the scrums. Which would probably suggest a front row of Guthro, Smit and CJ. If we do get parity then the AB’s are going to be in trouble because this is where they expect to annihilate the boks.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:42 am
#35 Dazzler:
Dazz, I understand you, and do not want to labour the point.
However it needs to be understood that in a test against the All Blacks you pick your best tight head scrummager.
That is the first criteria.
You do not pick your second best scrummager who is better in the loose.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:42 am
#24 wpw:
Mujati is a long way off – not sure he will EVER be capable of test rugby. And its not the place to invest in him during the TriNations – this boy should have been sent ofdf to the emerging Springboks tournament
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:42 am
Morning everyone!!!!
Does anyone know when the Bok team will be announced?
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:43 am
#9 Dazzler: John was part of the reason why BJ became a Bok, he used his influence with Jake to get him selected
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:44 am
#29 Dazzler:
Shoving teams around at scrum time does not win tournaments, or games for that matter
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:44 am
#14 Dazzler:
Ja, but do you think he has any technical knowlage of how a prop must scrum? I don’t think it will hurt to get a guy like Os or Visagie or Kempson in just as a consaltant for the props
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:45 am
#43 SharkMarine: 12h30 NZ time at the weekly press conference held on Thursdays, so depending where in the the world you are the time would be different
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:46 am
#29 Dazzler: And they also had uncontested scrums
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:46 am
#39 Dazzler: Watch him closely on Friday night against the Bulls, you might change your opinion.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:46 am
#45 Richie_7:
i didnt say it did, thats not what the discussion was about
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:46 am
did anyone watch the ‘97 boks vs scotland game last night on ESPNC
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:47 am
#44 JL1:
ok, but why did John have to use his influence? surely the coach would’ve thought he was good enough
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:48 am
#46 Johnny T:
No it wouldnt hurt, at all. But I’ve watched Gary Gold coach the scrum, from 2 metres away, and trust me he knows what he’s doing
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:48 am
PDV has already sellected his 28 man squad(Few surprises JP, Ndugane and no BJ). He is going to be facing the AB’s Three times in the space of a few weeks. The team he selects for this weekend could determine the outcome of these games. If we lose the first we could possibly lose the second and maybe the third. But if we win the first we are going all the way to Tri-NAtions glory.
Of the players he has to choose from, these should start in my opinion.
15 Monty
14 Jantjies
13 JDV
12 Steyn
11 Habannnnnnnnnnnnnnna (sorry to fast)
10 Butch
9 Januarie
8 Pienaar
7 Smith
6 Burger
5 Botha
4 Matfield
3 CJ
2 Smit
1 Guthro
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:48 am
#47 JL1:
I’m in SA mate
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:49 am
#45 Richie_7: You think ?What happend to the Stormers in the last 4 weeks?
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:50 am
#54 WPjoulekkerding:
I agree 100% with your team… except for Pienaar at 8!!! Surely a typo?
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:51 am
#35 Dazzler: The problem is that you never know which CJ you are going to get – he is not exactly what you would call consistent. In some games he is a monster in the scrums while in others he completely gets his *** kicked.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:51 am
Nothing new wrt tighthead props in SA. We are short of them, and so are the rest of the world. Thes guys will be and are already being paid mega bucks to play for teams. Read this from one year ago just before the RWC from SA Rugby
Jake White considered forgotten Springbok Faan Rautenbach for inclusion in his Tri-Nations squad as he looks at tighthead options ahead of the World Cup. Rautenbach would have been in line for a shock recall – along with Saracens prop Cobus Visagie – were he not currently recovering from injury.
The 31-year-old prop currently plays for London Irish in the Guinness Premiership.
“Faan was considered for the team but he has not recovered from an injury,” White told the press on Wednesday.
White hinted that he may include Rautenbach in Springbok preparations for the World Cup as he looks to bolter his scrum options. The Boks have BJ Botha and CJ van der Linde as specialist tightheads while Deon Carstens and Eddie Andrews can fulfil a makeshift role on the tighthead side.
With Gurthro Steenkamp and Os du Randt tipped to make the World Cup squad – and with CJ van der Linde able to play both sides of the scrum – White will have tough decisions to make as to the identity of his fifth propping option in his 30-man squad.
Rautenbach last played for the Springboks in 2004 and has played 14 Tests.
“I’ll probably bring Faan into the preliminary squad for the World Cup and may give him an opportunity to play against Namibia,” White told reporters on Wednesday.
Despite unconvincing scrummaging performances in the opening five Tests of 2007 White denied having concerns over the strength of his pack.
“I am not concerned about our scrumming, especially not after the Test in Durban.
“What everyone should understand, is the value of good tighthead forwards. Just look how much Carl Hayman will be paid to play in the northern hemisphere.
“One can never have enough good tighthead props. We now have CJ van der Linde and BJ Botha, but there is a large gap between them and Jannie du Plessis. And I’m not talking about Jannie’s abilities but about his inexperience.
“Therefore it is a great bonus to have players such as Visagie and Rautenbach. There is no reason for us not to look at such experienced players in that position.” White said.
Eddie Andrews, Jannie du Plessis, Cobus Visagie and CJ van der Linde are all included in the tour of Australia and New Zealand.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:52 am
That’s true , no such thing as a weak all blacks team. Sure we can win this game , aslong as we have the right players on the field and we don’t get any yellow cards.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:52 am
#54 WPjoulekkerding:
The reality is that once he has his 15 down on paper, he will have to ask himself whether they truly represent the colour mix that he has promised the ANC.
As long as he has to make up numbers to please the politicians his job will always be impossible.
Let’s see who the starting 15 are tomorrow.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:53 am
#53 Dazzler: True, Heyneke was also an excelent scrum coach, but I still think you had to be in there (the scrum) to know exactly whats going on. Os was in there for 80 odd Tests.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:54 am
#45 Richie_7: Sure you’re thinking about rugby and not netball. Pushing oppononents scrums around will definitely win you games
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:55 am
#59 JL1:
“Despite unconvincing scrummaging performances in the opening five Tests of 2007 White denied having concerns over the strength of his pack. ”
that is what I’ve often said, BJ has battled in international scrumming for a while, but Jake was in denial.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:56 am
#52 Dazzler: I have to admit that these positions are mostly unkown to a lot of coaches and refs
If you are a winger you can stand out, at lock you can stand out but at prop you can do a lot of short charges, support players, clean out rucks etc etc. The little nuances of the srumming is usually an unseen thing and therefore you need to actually speak to players around these players. This is also how a lot of players build up respect from other players and also how the urban myths/truths develop about who is the strongest in the scrum
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:57 am
#59 JL1:
Interestingly, I read that book ‘Nick & I’ (I know its very old) yesterday, but he says, the problem with South African Rugby, is that we have too many players and it is to easy to drop someone rather than develop them. I think the boks should get guys like Kempson and Visagie, mayby even Pieter de Villiers (the French one) to come and coach our props. They also weren’t huge, but had good techniqe.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:57 am
#56 Johnny T:
Did they make the semi’s?
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:58 am
#61 tight head:
A point few people remember when making their team sheets.
He has promised 7 players of colour, that’s a fact.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:58 am
#64 Dazzler: Hey man I agree, BJ would also battle on any given day. We have lost a lot with Cobus Visagie, Daan Human and Faan Rautenbach leaving SA
One can never admit to a weak scrum though as the oppo will surely target that area then
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:58 am
Big problem for us Saturday is Guthro, he’s been well below par this season
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:59 am
#64 Dazzler:
There are 8 men in a scrum.
It has to be disciplined into the art of scrumming.
When the binding, timing, body positions, and other factors are executed properly then you have 8 men working as one.
This is achieved by hard work at the scrum machine and by playing the same 8 many times together in a match situation.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:00 am
#68 eight ball: He’s also promised to pick on merit. Bit like Zuma telling you what you want to hear. He’s blessed with agreat squad and when we win it will be despite his efforts rather than with them
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:00 am
#68 eight ball: Do you think that 7 players of colour deserve to be on the team on merit?
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:01 am
#67 Richie_7:
No but they started to fall out of contention and form when JD Moller was injured and Mujati had to switch sides. Otherwise they could’ve beaten the Warratahs instead of drawing, and gotten a bonus point against either the Lions or Highlanders. They then would’ve had a home semi.
silly arguement you’re trying to make, everyone who knows anything about rugby knows its won or lost up front
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:02 am
#67 Richie_7: Exactly, if they had a good scrum in the last 4 weeks, they may well have made it
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:03 am
I think SA will struggle to find a tighthead as good as Richard Bands.Never been srummed once in his life……….Cobus Visagie is also excellent.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:03 am
#66 Johnny T: I agree, we had Balie Swart who gained experience in NZ but that is about it, now Visagie has been appointed as part of the coaching team at Saracens it will be difficult to get him here.
We do need to stick with our props and develop them, I mean Australia had not choice in this matter and look at KFC Dunning (he is at least holding his own and he is not rated by many)
I also think that we are speculating about the performance of the Boks scrum on Saturday-let us see what the tight five as a unit can actually do
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:03 am
#71 tight head:
So then if we get that right, CJ or even Mujati for that matter wont have a problem then, because 8 will be working as one…
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:04 am
The scrum advantage is only a factor if Williams and Thorn stay injury free. The All Blacks scrum has struggled mightily whenever Boric has subbed on.
I don’t expect NZ to scrummage SA to death, but if we can get a solid platform upfront, with the Boks 5m back, watch out… NZ scored a great try from a scrum on halfway against England. Henry always gets conservative against the Boks, preferring to crash and bash, but width is the way to beat the Boks. If Nonu keeps passing like he has been, NZ have a real edge in the backs.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:04 am
#72 FrenklyMuDeah:
He did and if he has to choose between Adi and Frans, you can bet it will be Adi.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:04 am
#69 JL1:
Yip, Cobus Visagie would bend any prop (incl. BJ) in SA in half.
A different league hey
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:05 am
Front row should be Steenkamp, Du Plessis and Smit. Beast or CJ on the bench.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:05 am
#68 eight ball: when did he mention an actual number ?
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:06 am
#78 Dazzler:
Dazz you been listening to PDV too much when he says he has 28 players in his squad who are all equal!!
You don’t believe that do you?
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:07 am
#12 tight head:
you obviously know of a better time to “build a team”.
wold you be so kind as to enlighten the rest of us?
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:07 am
#73 skols: It’s irrelevant what I think really. I think PDV has a seriously difficult job on his hands if he gets a few key injuries to key players of colour though. Also, everyone lambasted JW when he include Brian Habana and look at him now. Maybe Beast and Mujati land up being our 1st choice front row!
Who knows?
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:08 am
#54
Pienaar at 8???
Are you on tik or something???
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:09 am
#20 Dazzler:
I think what we’re all forgetting is, we will be facing an AB scrum that demolished the English scrum including Sheridan.
they did not!!
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:10 am
The prop story reiamgined from “A Few Good Men” movie version:
“Son, in this world there are scrums, and in those scrums you need PROPS. Are you willing to do it? As a prop, I have greater responsibility than you can ever fathom. You use words like drunk and out of shape. Those words are the very I back bone of a life I have spent drinking and partying in, and you use them as a punch line.
You weep for your wings and centers and curse the prop forward. You have that luxury, you have the luxury of knowing that the front row, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, wins these games you play. Truth? You can’t handle the truth, cause deep down in places you don’t talk about in your selection meetings, you want me in that scrum, you need me in that scrum.
I neither have the time, nor the inclination to explain myself to a back that scores under the very blanket of ball retention that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just bought me a beer and went on your way, otherwise, I suggest you crawl into a scrum and get dirty, either way, I don’t give a damn who you think is responsible.”
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:10 am
#79 ohtanisjacket: Good point about the locks, effecting the scrum. Williams and Thorn scrum very well, but Boric could be a weakness.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:12 am
Maybe BJ has an attitude problem like Fluke Watson ! Probably not, he doesn’t come across that badly but i cannot think why he was not included !
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:12 am
#85 asha1:
Take your best, experienced players to try and beat the All Blacks in NZ.
Play battle hardened, test match tight forwards.
You build individuals off the bench.
However 2 games in a row in NZ, you are only about winning, not about handing out jerseys to get experience.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:12 am
#83 bobbok: It’s an agreement he has in place behind the scenes. It’s not formal in his contract but is an undertaking he has committed to.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:14 am
#84 tight head:
No no, you were defending the fact that BJ was punished in the scrums in international games last year and prior to that. I quote…
“There are 8 men in a scrum.
It has to be disciplined into the art of scrumming.
When the binding, timing, body positions, and other factors are executed properly then you have 8 men working as one.”
By that logic (a logic which i agree with) then it doesnt matter if BJ or whoever isnt there. Because it’s not the performance of an indivdual that matters, but rather the pack as a whole.
Or does that only apply if BJ is going backwards in the scrum? Then its the other forwards fault? You’re contradicting yourself
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:14 am
#86 eight ball: I’m sure Beast and Mujati will make a world class front row……..someday. Until then lets just pick the best players in their respective positions. There will be many opportunities to give Beast and Mujati experience, All blacks in Wellington and Dunedin is probably not the place to “nurture” 2 very young (22 and 23), talented props.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:16 am
#88 asha1: Watch the 1st test, before his injury and yellow card. You’ll see they did.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:17 am
Good luck playing us guys, this is going to be your best opportunity to beat us at home over the last ten years—- one thing I am confused about though is the fact that the present Bok coach was the ***: coach under White who could not do the biz in NZ, and yet with the same players and without the previous head coach it appears as though you are expecting victory??
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:17 am
#93 eight ball: was you the fly on the wall ?
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:17 am
#86 eight ball: The reason I asked that question is that I think we can field 7 players of colour in the team all on merit, not because of the ANC or the fact that the coach is black.
Its been interesting that in the entire squad there have only been three “debatable” selection, being Botha being left out – the jury is still out on that one, Pieterson being included – a world cup winner, so maybe he gets the benefit of the doubt, and Adi – considered too small for test rugby but not S14, debatable.
So nobody has talked about quota’s or players being selected because they are black, all these players are there on merit.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:17 am
#94 Dazzler:
Dazz your logic is skewed.
It is a discipline of 8, but obviously the best props out play the inferior ones.
Or are you suggesting that if we get the discipline of 8 right then it does not matter who is at tight head, so we can put Brian Habana there!!
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:18 am
#92 tight head:
“Play battle hardened, test match tight forwards.
You build individuals off the bench.”
CJ has over 50 Bok caps, hence the reason he is first choice (BJ has less than 20). Mujati is the up and coming youngster, hence the reason he is playing off the bench, to build him.
I still fail to see what your arguement is. Everything you’re saying is in fact what the Boks are doing.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:19 am
#82 Tokyo Hooker: Being a Hooker in Tokyo should be rewarding – money wise! The Yen is stong! But Smit as prop – na get back to work.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:21 am
#93 eight ball: Morning China! Have been away and out of touch! Are you well?
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:21 am
#100 tight head:
No my logic is just fine… YOU made that point when you were defending the weak Bok scrum when BJ was at tighthead.
Whats good enough for the goose is good enough for the gander I’m afraid. If it wasnt BJ’s fault that he got hammered in the scrums but rather the rest of the forward pack, then the same must be said for every other tighhead, including Mujati.
I’m just making a point
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:21 am
Guys there is something really special about playing the All Blacks, i never feel like this before any game.
I just wish I could go to sleep and wake up on Saturday morning – I feel like a kid before christmas.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:21 am
#102 Sniper: He has actually played both tight and loosehead at stages in matches for SA and looked quite tidy!
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:22 am
#101 Dazzler:
Dazz, you convienently left out my last sentence.
Bj is a better tight head than CJ and has enough test experience.
That is my opinion.
I am not arguing.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:22 am
#106 PlayBall: Tongue in cheek Bru.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:24 am
#95 Francois Steyn is over-rated: Boet, let me state clearly that I don’t necessarily agree with what PDV is doing but that I do agree with what you are saying, basically I think front row forwards are very different to back line players in their maturing process. I think Beast and Mujati did well at S14 level this season, especially when in their position (Mujati) with a good pack around them.
I’m no tight head, he knows his **** about the scrums, I don’t.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:25 am
#107 tight head:
On whose opinion is BJ a better tighthead, yours right? Ok now just because you think so, doesn’t make it fact and done and dusted and written into the 11 commandments.
That is the point I’m trying make
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:25 am
#97 captain fantail:
I think our belief is solely based on the fact that NZ has lost a lot of players to European teams…..And ja, Richie not playing will also be a huge factor too. Break down points should be a walk in the park for Schalck.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:26 am
Cj Smit Guth front row will be fine to start with. My worry is later on the game when the ELVS have created tired legs for these big boys. What are they going to do then? Change the entire front row? Beast, Bis and Mujati, that would be looking for trouble. Not so much in the loose but more at scrum time.
Maybe he’ll move smit to prop but I dont know how his legs will feel at the end of 70 minutes not having played under the ELVS
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:26 am
#106 PlayBall: I disagree, every time Smit has moved to prop at international level, our scrum has been weakened visually.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:28 am
#97 captain fantail: This is they way I see it: One if the things that Jake White achieved was to build a very strong core of players. PdV inherited that core, but unlike Jake he likes to mix things up a bit and he’s willing to try new things – like playing a more attacking game.
So, by not just giving us more of the same (that hasn’t been working for the last 10 years) it at least gives us the chance of a different outcome.
Of course it might also backfire horribly…
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:28 am
#103 Sniper: Howzit boet, noticed that you hadn’t been around much. I’m schweet thanks, even though I now work full time and probably wont be on this site as much as it picks up momentum… ho hum
Looking forward to the game huge tho.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:28 am
#104 Dazzler:
No Dazz.
It is possible to blame a tight head in a particular match, just the same as it is possible to blame the scrumming techique of the whole pack in a particular game.
You cannot simply draw a line through the reasoning and think it is a formula.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:29 am
Any way I am out of here now.
Catch up later.
Cheers Dazz!!
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:29 am
#74 Dazzler:
#75 Johnny T:
Everybody knows the ball is won up front, but its no use if you have a good scrum and a backline who can’t get the ball from scrumhalf to wing without kicking away possesion or knocking it on. Too much emphasis is being placed on the scrum at this stage and not enough on SA’s lack of creativity in the backline
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:31 am
#116 tight head:
Then why do you argue that whenever BJ gets pushed backwards it’s not his fault but those around him? Could it not be that maybe, just maybe, BJ is not as good as everyone thinks?
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:31 am
#115 eight ball: Had a lekka break and glad to see you are going to do some work again!
Can’t wait for the game and really looking forward to see where we stand internationally. Good luck in the new job!
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:31 am
I think because of the dynamics of SA Rugby Snor had to choose between BJ and CJ so decided to take CJ cause he can do both sides of the scrum.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:32 am
#110 Dazzler: Also Jake White’s. Look I know I am a bit biased, but it would probably be fair to say the Sharks have had the strongest scrummaging side in the S14 for the last 2 years? This is due to the scrumming prowess of our tightheads and possibly the fact that Johan Muller is a very strong scrummager and under-rated in this department. As a result my (perhaps biased) view is that BJ is one of the best tightheads in the S14.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:35 am
#104 Dazzler: Tighthead likes the name “BJ”
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:35 am
#121 Boots: That is probably the best explanation I have heard. Its the only one that makes sense.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:37 am
bla bla bla – we be having it !!!
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:38 am
#120 Sniper: Thanks buddy. I’m enjoying the frenetic pace and the energy. Working on my own was miserable.
I’m just hoping that we stand firm in the scrums because we should have the upper hand in the lineouts and loose… also hope that Adi has a big game.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:38 am
#122 Francois Steyn is over-rated:
Where on earth is Richard Bands?
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:38 am
#122 Francois Steyn is over-rated:
I don’t doubt BJ’s ability in the S14, but I’m yet to really see him impress at international level. The Bok scrum has been suspect for a number of seasons now, its not a new thing. And my arguement is, I really doubt the problem was OS, so could it be BJ? Possibly
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:39 am
#122 Francois Steyn is over-rated:
“… the Sharks have had the strongest scrummaging side in the S14 for the last 2 years?”
nope, but they did have an awesome scrum last year!!
)
now why is something bothering me ….
last year …. last year ….. s14
now whats bothering me?
ag, dont know, there couldnt have been THAT many ab injured or not playing!
(i’m sure i’ll get it sometime later today
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:40 am
#28 Dazzler:
“In light of the fact that BJ is now off overseas (so is CJ but they didnt know it at the time) and wont be playing for the Boks all that much due to the restrictions in place,”
What “restrictions” ?
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:41 am
#129 asha1:
“nope, but they did have an awesome scrum last year!!”
It is because the presence of Frans Steyn disrupted their scrums too.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:45 am
#130 klingon_x:
That overseas based players are only allowed to play a certain amount of games for their country. A new ruling by the IRB, includes all countries not just SA.
We might lose Butch as well because of it…
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:46 am
#<#87 wpw: a href=”#comment-899608″>61 tight head: Should have written Pierre
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:49 am
#127 SharkMarine: Bands last I heard was playing for Bulls second team and thinking of going to Natal. Wasn’t in form and had head problems.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:51 am
#132 Dazzler: Do you maybe have details on the ruling? I’ve heard rumours, but I haven’t seen anything solid.
If you think it’s going to hit us hard, spare a thought for Argentina
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:51 am
Does anybody know the identity of The Stig in Top Gear Extra.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:51 am
#132 Dazzler:
“That overseas based players are only allowed to play a certain amount of games for their country. A new ruling by the IRB, includes all countries not just SA.”
You must have picked that up from the sarugby webshite. There is no such an IRB ruling. Nothing. Nada. What that pisspoor journo was trying to refer to was the Woking Accord which stipulates that ALL players shouldn’t play more than 11 tests per year. The problem with overseas players like Butch has got to do with club versus national side commitments.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:53 am
#134 FrenklyMuDeah:
Bands at his best would make any loose-head run for cover….And that includes Woodcock,Tialata and Sheridan
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:54 am
#126 eight ball: Sorry had a short meeting but back now! I know working alone can be very lonely and agree with your regarding scrums. Adi will play a blinder – I am sure!
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:55 am
#136 Dawn: Why?
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:55 am
#119 Dazzler: Let me explain what TH is trying to say: When BJ gets pushed back it’s because the other 7 players in the scrum are useless. When people like CJ or Mujati get pushed back it’s their fault because they’re clearly useless.
I hope that clears it up.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:56 am
#141 siener:
Perfectly, that’s what I thought he was trying to say, but i was trying to make him see it. Because i dont think he does…
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:58 am
Hey Katman , how much more days for daddy time ? I see someone posting about it , Mine is due in 3 weeks.
Sprry I know not rugby related , just so happy and all
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:01 am
#143 sparticus: Congrats! First one? Some advice:
1. Go to bed early
2. Sleep in
BECAUSE: You will be tired soon brother!
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:03 am
This scrumming debate can go on forever. There are still 15 players on the field. Many sides won and lost with better possesion stats. We are still going to kill them in the loose, in the broken loose, in the line-outs and counter attack. Sing with me…Habanananana. And then.. the other important aspects of this game will be how our centres do against some straight running and midfield attacks with forwards. D Carter’s day on the day vs Butch.. and if January has a good day.
As long as we don’t get shoved back all the time, we better concentrate on what we do well. That is what Juan, Schalk, Spies, JdV and Habana do.
Shall we just choose to dominate instead of anticipating what we’ll be up against.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:03 am
Steyn is at least the best SA winger after Hebana. He should at least play in that position which would give him freedom to play around the park…….
He is fast, strong, brave and has a huge boot……..he is defenetly better than the other wingers exept Hebana.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:08 am
#136 Dawn: Some people think he is an alien, others think that he has a great power unknown to man
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:08 am
#146 pepinillo:
“He is fast, strong, brave and has a huge boot”
By international wing standards Steyn can definitely not be described as “fast”. In my opinion he is too slow for 15,14,11 and 13.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:14 am
#145 shooter: plus Steyn, Smit, Bakkies and Matfield. And the 3 other guys I didn’t mention. oh yes, and the bad boys on the bench.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:15 am
#146 pepinillo: Sounds like the Rolls Royce of wings then.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:16 am
#147 JL1:
Could he be a crazy guy who drives well?
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:17 am
#143 sparticus: Three weeks? Congratulations man. Jittery days indeed, hey?
Mine should be here next Tuesday (ours is a controlled experiment) – so less than two weeks before lift off.
You having a boy or a girl?
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:34 am
#145 shooter:
You got to remember that everytime we dont get the ball out of a ruck its a free kick to them and have the choice of a scrum. If they are dominating the scrums they willdeliberately put hands in at ruck time casue they will be ready to scrum. But in turn we can opt to take the free kick instead.
Interesting to see what the weather is going to do? If it is wet there will be more handling errors which means more scrums. So we cant just laugh off the scrums chap.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:37 am
#153 Boots: Isn’t it a penalty now as they are playing the full ELV’s – no longer the free kick?
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:37 am
#152 katman:
Note to all dads-to-be:
Will be starting the Keo creche.
Personal babysitting service.
Mini tattoos for boys and cute ear-piercing for girls will be done at nap time.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:40 am
#155 Dawn: There are a few babies on this site as well! Maybe you could accommodate them too and tattoo their mouths!
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:41 am
#154 Sniper:
Good point. Im not sure!!
If that is the case it will be a little easier on our scrum.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:44 am
Unrealistic expectations
Posted Fri, 27 Jun 2008
Jake White never did it in four years. Nick Mallett was the last guy to do it – 10 years ago. Expecting Springbok coach Peter de Villiers to beat the All Blacks in their own backyard – in consecutive weeks – is unrealistic, according to rugby365 columnist Robbie Fleck.
The Springboks jetted off to Australasia on Thursday night full of confidence ahead of three tough Test matches against New Zealand (twice) and Australia.
The Boks can be fairly happy with their performances in the June Tests and the selection of the squad indicates that Peter de Villiers was happy with most of the players used against Wales and Italy.
There will always be unlucky players when it comes to selection – squads just never seem big enough! – and at the moment, I guess Tonderai Chavhanga could feel a bit hard done by.
Chavhanga was in great form during the Super 14, but he is a confidence player and his hamstring injury in the closing stages of the tournament seemed to nip his progress in the bud. Hamstrings are never easy things to get over – especially in the case of a ‘race-horse’ like Tonderai Chavhanga – and it could have been playing on his mind against the Welsh.
It is a pity though, as I think Chavhanga deserved a better shot than just two Tests against a mediocre Welsh side and his pace would have been ideal against the speedy Kiwi wings Down Under. Hopefully he will regain some of his confidence in the Currie Cup against the likes of the Blue Bulls and the Sharks.
Overall, there are no real surprises in the squad. We all knew that Adi Jacobs would be De Villiers’s first-choice centre and it will be a serious test for the Sharks man. He has never started a Test match in New Zealand or Australia and it could make or break his Springbok career. I don’t think he is the best outside centre in the country, but with Jaque Fourie injured and Waylon Murray out of form, there isn’t really plenty to choose from in the No.13 position.
I’m glad Ryan Kankowski has retained his place in the squad – despite taking a big knock against the Azzurri – and in this case Danie Rossouw misses out.
There is no doubt that the Springboks have an opportunity to go over there now and finally win a Test in New Zealand. World Cup winners like John Smit, Victor Matfield, Butch James and Jean de Villiers have never won a Test match in NZ – they want to tick that box now and rightly so.
South African rugby is on a high, they have a new coach and a new philosophy, whilst the All Blacks seem to be in a bit of disarray at the minute. Word from New Zealand is that they are pretty worried over there. They seem to be losing players to Europe on a weekly basis and now Richie McCaw is out injured and Ali Williams is in doubt, too. They certainly don’t have the depth that we do right now.
So, yes, all in all the signs are there and the All Blacks are ripe for a beating.
Simple, right? Not quite I’m afraid…
Winning over there remains a massive mountain to climb – why else do you think we’ve never won there since 1998?! How many times should the Boks have won over there in the past and how many times did they lose there in the last minute under Jake White between 2004 and 2007?
In the past, the Springboks would go to New Zealand trying to dominate them up front and “squeeze the life of out of them”, but now, for the first time, we’re heading to the Land of the Long White Cloud trying to beat the Kiwis at their own game.
They don’t like it when we front up to them, but with De Villiers’s new philosophy we could leave ourselves exposed a bit. Remember, New Zealand have been playing like this for the last 20 years, we’ve been trying this ‘new game’ for two months.
New Zealand think they ‘owe us’ after the World Cup. They’re still moaning about losing to France in the quarterfinals and they would want to beat us to prove that they are the best team in the world. Remember how Sean Fitzpatrick’s All Blacks came to SA in 1996 – a year after the ‘95 World Cup – and beat us on our soil in a Test series?
Remember, too, all the history and traditions between the All Blacks and the Springboks. Like we raise ourselves when we play them, they also raise themselves when it comes to facing the Springboks – especially at home.
Australia, on the other hand, are more vulnerable. Like us, they have a new coach who is trying to impose a new way of thinking. For so long Australia played a structured game – first under Rod Macqueen and then under Eddie Jones – but now Deans is trying to get the players to think for themselves, like the Crusaders have done so successfully in Super Rugby.
By the end of the year, the Wallabies will be back amongst the top three nations in the world, but – and like with us – it will take time to refine their game and achieve the immediate results.
To expect the Springboks to simply fly off to New Zealand and beat the All Blacks on successive weekends is a very unfair expectation on Peter de Villiers. Nick Mallett won there just once in three years and Jake White didn’t win one match in New Zealand in eight starts. Why should De Villiers now, after three matches against Wales and Italy, pitch and beat the Kiwis in their own backyard in his first overseas Test? It’s ludicrous!
Yes, it is a great opportunity for the Springboks to win over there, but a loss to New Zealand should not be seen as a failure. What makes the current situation even more unrealistic is that the same people expecting De Villiers to win in NZ are the same people – both the media and the public – that initially condemned his appointment.
Instead of unreleastic expectations and wild predictions based on hearsay, people in South African rugby should rather understand that the 2008 Tri-Nations is just another stepping stone for De Villiers – judge him on a proper run as Springbok coach, not two Test matches in New Zealand against an All Blacks side with everything in the world to prove.
Until next week,
Fleckie
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:44 am
#157 Boots: I am only asking as they now award a full arm penalty in the Currie Cup for this offence! Can someone confirm if this is correctc?
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:44 am
shooter – Who in their right mind would put an untested front row in front of the ABs in front of their own crowd? A mad man.. Am not saying that Steenkamp, Smit and CJ won’t be weak but they are not going to be as good as BJ, Smit, CJ was in last years RWC. Plus we have the added surprise of Mujati and Beast maybe coming on later as CJ and Steenkamp are both not 60 minute front rowers.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:46 am
Sniper , believe it or not 3rd one , I know sucker for punishment. Still the excitement is like the first one , I guess its like when a veteran bokke runs out and says its like his first test cap !!
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:47 am
#153 Boots: Ok, if they choose scrums fine. I’ still think we will be competitive enough. The Stormers did ok in the S14 with what was also supposed to be the most unrated frontrow scrummers in the comp. ..If the weather is bad the scrums will be closer. As far as hands go, they will eventually get a yellow card for something like that. So, yes scrumming will be important, but we’ve played these guys before in S14 and they are only so good really.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:48 am
#161 sparticus: I know the feeling – have two of my own – thankfully big girls now! Boy or Girl!
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:49 am
#162 shooter: Is hands in a short arm or full penalty under the full ELV’s?
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:51 am
#160 grunt: we will still find out who the frontrow is, but mostly any of those 5 guys you mentioned plus Smith, will do their job. I think mentally we will be ready.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:53 am
Sniper..I don’t know. under full elv’s penalty yes, bother, how full are the rules we playing?
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:55 am
#166 shooter: Are we not playing the full ELV’s in Tri-Nations?
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:57 am
#162 shooter:
I agree with you as per my post on the Ollie thread, we making this to be a bigger problem than it really is.
Dont like saying this but I agree with Ollie.
We wont dominate the scrums and will hold our own against the AB’s while at times they might put our ball under pressure. While I appreciate it is an important part of the game I think we reading too much into this and making a huge deal out of it, Gthro Smit and CJ are a huge front row all with WC champs medals and possibly a 130 odd test caps between them, they street wise and know what the are in for.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:58 am
#158 madvillain:
“Why should De Villiers now”
Because he is in charge of the World Champion, World Cup winning, number 1 ranked side in the world
You cant have it both ways
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:59 am
shooter – Lets just hope PDV doesn’t do a Maarkgraaf on us. Maarkgraaf had the entire RWC95 team and was playing on home soil but still managed to loose a home series by chopping and changing players from week to week.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:00 am
Sniper/Katman – have one boy and one girl , next one is a bot also , looking forward to it like u wont believe. Mine is coming 28th also planned (first one had to be unfortunately so the rest also). Katman holding thumbs for u bru , if Schalk scored the winning try will u name him Klein Schalk ? Be happy that Tonderai is not playing cos I would have loved to hear u explain to your wife that name
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:00 am
#168 Boots: Our Front Row will be OK! What is the weather predictions for Saturday?
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:00 am
This scrum debate is a lot of ****. We had the same frontrow debate last season and the Boks came home with the RWC.
Now a days a scrum is a way to restart the game without the tight 5 and with the ELVs there are 10m for the backs to work with.
So when we think scrums don’t think old school i.e. 5 changes to reset and shorten an ou’s neck or win a tighthead, no the ref give 2 resets and penalies, rightly or wrongly.
So when we think scrums forget the front row, think attack or defend in the backline.
Mentally the Bokke lose when they lose the scrums/ forward battle because they think that the be all and end all of rugby. Just because we have a lot of big ******** don’t make that right.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:01 am
#151 Dawn: Let me guess, the helmet is a turn on
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:02 am
We playing full elves as in S14 elves plus additional 2 rules , one is that no limits in lineouts and second is collapsing of mauls allowed , Thats why I could not understand the bokks trying the maul so much in the test against Italy , in the trinations the maul is not that effective.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 am
#172 Sniper:
Not sure but at this time of year the Kiwis dont normally start the game untill its pissing with rain and gale force winds are blowing.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 am
#175 sparticus: Thanks. So that means no hands in the ruck allowed? (or will that rule still come into play latertime?)
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:09 am
#144 Sniper:
well said, mine is 2 weeks old and it’s been a while since i have had some descent nap time,but with that being said becoming a dad is probebly the best feeling in the world
hopefully he’ll play tighthead for the boks one day if the problem is’n sorted out by then
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:09 am
#175 sparticus: The oppos must still get it right to pull down a maul, not collapsing
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:10 am
#168 Boots: Yes, I’m hoping that we can do/find some constructive attacking wiff the backline!
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:12 am
luckily ollie says that the scrums doesnt really matter
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:15 am
howdy all.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:16 am
“An open letter to scantily clad ladiesIf you’re female, and for some reason or other you don’t want to be raped right now, I hope you’re dressed appropriately. I mention this because a new survey, recently conducted by TNS Research, reveals that nearly a quarter of South African men agree with the statement, “women who dress in revealing clothes are asking to be raped”.
Holy ****. Really? I never would have guessed. And I doubt I’m the only one, so I’m taking the opportunity to announce this new information – partly as a service to single women who might want to rush home and change into something less dowdy immediately, but also as an RSVP to FHM magazine models and scantily clad women of all shapes and sizes everywhere. I’d just like to say thank you, and I humbly accept your generous invitation.
But first, I must apologise for the tardiness of my response. I had no idea, you see. All this time I thought that those of you who wore tight, low-cut sweaters did so for your own personal reasons. It simply didn’t cross my mind that your choice of clothing was an attempt to communicate with little old me. Honestly, if I’d known for a second you were requesting a decisive sexual assault on my part, I would have complied without a moment’s hesitation. I may be out of touch, but I am nothing if not a gentleman.
In my defence, how was I to know? It’s hard to imagine anyone – let alone a woman in revealing clothing – desiring an unannounced carnal violation from a complete stranger. In fact, doesn’t the very definition of rape rest on the fact that it’s unsolicited? Once requested, it should be called something else.
Perhaps this is what provocatively attired women are really asking for: not so much rape, but rather, sudden, unprovoked lovemaking, quite possibly at gunpoint. Now I don’t want to seem like a pedant, or anything, but if we’re going to be expressing our levels of illicit lust through items of clothing, I think it best we at least try to be as precise as possible.
“Perhaps this is what provocatively attired women are really asking for: not so much rape, but rather, sudden, unprovoked lovemaking”And after a passionate round of “surprise-love”, as I like to call it, who knows where the evening could take us? Perhaps I could take you out to see a movie against your will. Then maybe we could get a late, non-consensual dinner. Do you like pizza? Or would you prefer a knuckle sandwich? Whatever you don’t want – the choice is mine.
Now I’ve got to remind you, this isn’t an offer you’ll get every day. Remember, nearly three quarters of the men in this country don’t even know what you girls are saying when you’re wearing an ensemble so sparing it could fit into a cigarette box. They don’t hear your request. You know what most men are like: they just don’t listen. Thankfully, there are still a few sensitive new-age guys out there who know what you’re saying when you put on those high heel pumps. Nothing says “take me in the most illegal and traumatising way possible!” better than a pair of shoes that make it impossible for you to run away.
But sometimes it’s possible to get your lines crossed. A well-meaning guy might spot a woman who he thinks is provocatively dressed, but it’s just a very hot day and she’s trying to keep cool. Nobody’s fault, of course, but it’s always possible to get the wrong message, resulting in considerable embarrassment for both parties concerned. So perhaps men should take extra measures to ensure that the scantily clad lady in question is, in fact, saying what they think she’s saying before taking action.
Believe me, nothing comes close to the interminable embarrassment of finding yourself standing in a darkened alleyway with your pants down, a roll of duct tape in one hand and a chloroform-soaked rag in the other while the object of your affection runs away screaming. You don’t need me to tell you that the evening can only go downhill from there.
So guys, before taking action, maybe you should first ask, just to be safe. If the answer is yes, it’s time for crime! If no… well, there are plenty of provocatively dressed fish in the sea and you know exactly what they want.
- Chris McEvoy
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:17 am
The funniest thing I read all week.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:18 am
#183 Dawn: 25% fukwits.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:20 am
Hello GBS, is Barcelona’s nog aan vanaand?! Sien jul daar. Jy weet mos wie’s wie in Pretoria, so ek skat ek die usual suspects gaan ook daar wees. Sherrif, sien jou daar?
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:23 am
#184 Dawn: I do not violence against women is funny, it is a sad country that you live in if you look at these stats per capita of rapes:
Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)
#1 South Africa: 1.19538 per 1,000 people
#2 Seychelles: 0.788294 per 1,000 people
#3 Australia: 0.777999 per 1,000 people
#4 Montserrat: 0.749384 per 1,000 people
#5 Canada: 0.733089 per 1,000 people
#6 Jamaica: 0.476608 per 1,000 people
#7 Zimbabwe: 0.457775 per 1,000 people
#8 Dominica: 0.34768 per 1,000 people
#9 United States: 0.301318 per 1,000 people
#10 Iceland: 0.246009 per 1,000 people
#11 Papua New Guinea: 0.233544 per 1,000 people
#12 New Zealand: 0.213383 per 1,000 people
#13 United Kingdom: 0.142172 per 1,000 people
#14 Spain: 0.140403 per 1,000 people
#15 France: 0.139442 per 1,000 people
#16 Korea, South: 0.12621 per 1,000 people
#17 Mexico: 0.122981 per 1,000 people
#18 Norway: 0.120836 per 1,000 people
#19 Costa Rica: 0.118277 per 1,000 people
#20 Venezuela: 0.115507 per 1,000 people
#21 Finland: 0.110856 per 1,000 people
#22 Netherlands: 0.100445 per 1,000 people
#23 Denmark: 0.0914948 per 1,000 people
#24 Germany: 0.0909731 per 1,000 people
#25 Bulgaria: 0.0795973 per 1,000 people
#26 Chile: 0.0782179 per 1,000 people
#27 Thailand: 0.0626305 per 1,000 people
#28 Kyrgyzstan: 0.0623785 per 1,000 people
#29 Poland: 0.062218 per 1,000 people
#30 Sri Lanka: 0.0599053 per 1,000 people
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:24 am
#187 JL1: I do not condone violence against women
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:25 am
#68 eight ball:
Has he really promised to pick 7 players of colour? On merit…..?
Some of my favourite Bok players and up and coming youngsters are players of colour but man im a BOK fan, I just want the best 15 Bokkies on that field so we can wipe these ABs like we should! I have serious concerns over Mujati and our scrum in general and starting with Adi at centre would be suicide, you cant slip tackles against a running side like NZ. Id prefer Percy at fullback to Jantjes as I really think we need the experienced heads around when things get chilly and vicious in Welly. Does our team now HAVE to contain 7 players of colour? How I dearly dearly wish that we could field the strongest team that we’re capable of and that nobody would talk about the make-up of the side. Look at the kind of quality that is coming through why rush that transformation IS happening! Dammit we can win away to the ABs with our best side, the first time in 10 years that we’ve got a brilliant shot at it, dont lets screw that up!
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:25 am
#178 st.a.t.w: Will be looking out for him in a couple of years time! You right nothing better than fatherhood – and if you have girls like me – they wrap around their fingers!!!
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:26 am
JL1 – Godbless you brother. Rape is not a thing to make fun of
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:28 am
#185 rangerman: Howdy mate! Looking forward to the game on Saturday! What’s the gut feeling about this one?
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:30 am
#192 Sniper: howdy sniper.
i think we will pillage the islands.
our time is now!
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:31 am
#190 Sniper:
i know the feeling i’ve got a 6 year od girl also!
hard to say no to her
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:32 am
#193 rangerman:
Mmmm my heart says one thing the ‘kop’ another! 
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:33 am
The All Blacks are famous for selecting horses-for-coarses.
I clearly remember a few years back how they came up with a plan to counter- react the brutal scrumaging power of great “Os” Du Randt.
Carl Heymens was the incumbent at the time but because they felt Os would battled against a shorter tighthead they selected Greg Sommerville and they achieved their objectives. We did not dominate as was expected.
Here we are again, in the same predicament with two tall looseheads, Gurthu Steenkamp and the Beast. So what they do is select a nice short tighthead who can get under either one of them and they will once again dominate in the srums. We just never seem to learn from our mistakes. They will try and milk penalties out of us and we could get someone sent off if things go really wrong.
If we had BJ there this would negated their tactics to a certain extent and would give us a fighting chance in the scrums. On top of this we have two very inexperienced props as back-up.
I think we will have to face the music this weekend come scrum time!
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:34 am
#194 st.a.t.w: Mine are a lot older – one graduated and the other first year! My goodness they are high maintenance!
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:36 am
#187 JL1:
Read the column and put your tongue in your cheek!
It’s a send-up!
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:36 am
#196 iceman: good post.
but if the aussies can manage then so can we!
i am getting a little frazzled by the long wait for this game.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:37 am
#191 grunt: I think you’re missing the point of the piece. It’s only funny in order to highlight the absurdity of a situation where a quarter of the poll reckon it’s justified. There’s no doubting his sentiments.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:37 am
Brin back Florence! Bring back Florence! He’s also been playing in France so he MUST have learnt something about scrumming? Seeing as he knew bugger-all before he left?
Oh dear, the mind boggles….
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:38 am
#199 rangerman:
Yeah dammit I know the feeling Saturday seems ages away and we’re creeping towards the game and then suddenly il be sitting in front of the box Saturday morning bleary eyed wishing for a beer and probably wearing my Bokke shirt inside out!
You gotta love it!
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:38 am
WHY IS THIS SITE SOOOOOO FRIKKIN SLOOOOOOOW???
Speed it up, gents, or you lose your bloggers.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:39 am
st.a.t.w #178 : congrats on new addition……… I have a better suggestion ..emigrate to NZ like a lot of your country men/women and he can play for the AB’s….. now that would be something, instead of chasing the silver fern he could be wearing it!!!! Cheers
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:40 am
#189 Thameside Bok fan:
I have it on good authority that this is the case.
Our team is on merit with the caveat of 7 players of colour. However you work that out I just don’t know.
But at least we have;
Habanero
Februarie
Jantjies
Who are definitely on merit.
Adi, a bit suspect given the horses for courses approach.
Beast, great prospect for the future as is Mujati.
Odwa, JPP, Chavs all could be on merit, but haven’t shown the class at test this year.
That’s why i say, a few injuries and we are in trouble with this commitment.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:41 am
#110 Dazzler:
Dazz, you are being like a child in the playground mate.
Of course it is my opinion, and just that.
Nobody has to agree with me.
You know, agree, disagree, like a forum for debate!!
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:41 am
#202 Thameside Bok fan: It’s only Wednesday – know the feeling bro! Roll on Saturday
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:43 am
#206 tight head: Register him at Keo’s Creche!
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:43 am
#199 rangerman:
howdee ranger…
i can honestly tell you thnat no girl ever “asks to be raped” the biggest mount of hogwash to justify our buffooning society and moral degradation… sad in fact, cause none of my male friend will ever condone any kind of violance or unappropriate behaviour towrds woman…
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:43 am
iceman – I agree. But we have have bigger problems at centre.I have just read that Ma’a Nonu wieghs 104kg and Conrad Smith 95 kg, so if PDV thinks 88kg Adi Jacobs is good enuff to stop Conrad Smith then it truely is night night sweet prince. PDV has to play Steyn(100kg)/JDV(98kg) at 12 and 13 respectively.
There are already 2 big problems for the Boks, no settled front row and no settled centre pairing.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:44 am
#210 grunt: Remember that old saying: “The bigger you are the harder you fall!”
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:48 am
Sniper – Yes i do. But honestly 88kg is not heavy enuff for test rugby. Even Marius Joubert at 92/3kg started to struggle in 2005 and was dropped for the 96kg hard man Jaque Fourie.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:49 am
It worries me that Smittie is starting off the season with a kak attitude – why are things different , why? But I liiiiked them before.
Smit get your head out. It IS like this, now work with it. Use the rules to your strengths. It doesnt help to say after the game well wellThe S14 has been a lot more interesting that n the tripe dished up in Europe, inlcuding the Top 14.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:50 am
Helloooooooooooooooooooooo
Barra Bing Ting Ting
I’m also worried stukkend about the Bokke scrums against the All Blacks…. maar noujaaaaaa, ons sal seker Saterdag sien….
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:50 am
Dammit!!
It doesn’t help to say after the game ” Well IF we were still playing the old rules we would have won”. You are not playing old rules.
NEW RULES
Stop BITCHING.
You sound like the Bulls did at the beginning of the season. Look where they got.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:52 am
#215 SjamBok: Agree: Adapt or Die!
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:53 am
#211 Sniper:
Yeah, a saying created by smaller type guys wanting to ease their nerves. Point is, the bigger they are, the harder they’re going to run at you. Plain and simple
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:54 am
Smit not alllowed to comment on BJ omission?
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:54 am
#214 grootblousmile:
hallo gbs, how you doing dear sir?!
i will speak late again, first the mr price pro and the ovean is calling me!!!
ciao ciao
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:55 am
#210 grunt:
Agreed I cannot see Adi being defensively sound against a side as quick and powerful as the ABs. Conrad Smith ripped the English centre (and old Charlie!) a new one. Adi has documented difficulties on defense, he’s not a big guy and man I think we’re gonna pay for it on Saturday. Pick Steyn who may not be as creative but he’ll defend like a demon all afternoon. This is Test rugby we need the hard okes with experience who won’t take a backward step!
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:55 am
Sniper #211 …but what about the other saying ” the smaller you are get out of the way quick”
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:55 am
#210 grunt:
It will be suicidal to put Adi up against that big Nono®; you’re asking for concussion
Nono® is a confidence player and the moment he breaks the line once, he will try it the whole game and it can become a long day at the office.
My guess is that Carter will pop him a delayed pass and if he gets ONE gap it’s basically tickets. So the plan will be secure 1st phase ball fromthe scrum in particular and then run hard at the 10 -12 channel; play the situation from there.
The remedy is to make him defend and stop him dead in his tracks every time he touches the ball. Conrad Smith also an unbelievably deceptive player with slick hands.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:55 am
later and ocean, geeze my excitement gets the better of me hee hee…
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:57 am
#214 grootblousmile: #186.
We want this game at least just as much as the AB’s! Hope a few players can pull the cat out of the bag for at least one day.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:00 pm
#223 crikey mate did you see that shark: Hey homely girl…..
You should have been in or near Pretoria today….. we are having a bit of a Keoling drinking session in Pretoria………. (for those brave enough to attend)
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:00 pm
#222 Sheriff:
Adi is a Wales/Italy centre he’ll do for the smaller sides in world rugby, there is no way on the Lords good green earth that he should be starting against the Abs, especially when you have a look at Nono and Smith, even with JDV and Fourie we’d be having a helluva contest in the centre. Picking Adi could sink us.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:00 pm
#107 tight head: TH, you seem to forget that in the pool game against England at the WC, BJ folded like an accordian against Sheridan and in the Newlands test against the Aussies last year, he got outscrummed by Donut Dunning…Matt Dunning!!! BJ’s got a reputation based more on make believe than actual performance – like Richard Bands.
We never really struggle against the Aussie and NZ scrums because we play them so often, guys know each other inside out. That’s why its not that big a risk including Mujati in the Tri-Nations.
We usually struggle against NH scrums, principally because they’re better technically, but also because there’s no familiarity with them. As evidence, look at the Australian scrum in the Tri-Nations as opposed to their games against NH opposition. They always seem to hold their own against SA and NZ, but always get dominated when they head North.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:01 pm
#221 breakaway: OK
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:01 pm
#224 shooter: Hey, you still remember the drinking session we initiated…. tonight at 18:30…..
AB, Kwagga, K9, myself & Bonzai GBS…. Fern…… yourself….
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:04 pm
#218 greatest13gerber: G13G, when have you ever heard of a captain commenting on a guy that’s been ommitted?! Even if he was upset by BJ’s ommission, he wouldn’t be much of a captain if he started crying to journalists about it.
Only in South Africa do we see conspiracy around every corner…speaks to our laager mentality.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:06 pm
#229 grootblousmile: Ek dink tussen julle (waarskynlik insl. mini GBS) gaan ek die minsdrinkfikste wees, eish. Hoe sal ek weet wie julle is
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:06 pm
#229 grootblousmile:
Hoekom is ek nie genooi nie.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:07 pm
#222 Sheriff: Sheriff, Nonu is playing inside centre, Adi will be defending against Smith…they’re just about the same size I think. Nonu will be JdV responsibility. If the defence is organised enough Nonu on Jacobs shouldn’t happen…at least not from a set-piece.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Sheriff – I am going to get lambasted for this one, but i would even have JDV/WO over JDV/Adi any day, but that is me going for the Jake White route whenever JF is injured. I think PDV made a mistake by not keeping Waylon Murray in the fold the way he has with JPP.
When is the Bok team being announced?
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:09 pm
#233 crazy ******:
Id worry just as much about Adi against Smith as against Nonu. Smith has some silky skills and while Adi can attack he just cant defend for love or money!
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:10 pm
#231 shooter: Jy sal weet……… moenie komkommer nie…….. as jy inloop skree net……… “shooter”……. of nee wag, netnou dink die mense dis ‘n holdup……. skree net “GBS, Kwagga, AB”
Man, ons sorg net dat ons goed eet……. dan is daar meer plek virrie drank…. ek’s self nie te drinkfiks nie……… maar ek wordtie dronk nie, net moerrrrrrrr moeg op my ronde voete………
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:10 pm
#234 grunt:
Bradley Barritt anyone?! He’d have to adjust but Id rather have BB there than Adi.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:12 pm
#226 Thameside Bok fan:
That’s why I used the word “suicidal”
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Thameside Bok fan – PDV was told by everyone that if he wants to do the impossible by beating the ABs in their own backyard TWICE, he would have to go with as much of the RWC 22 as possible. Already he has seen fit to ignore that advice and has gone with his own agenda, which is every coaches perogative, but we will just have to wait and see.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:13 pm
#210 grunt: You can’t just make up player stats and use them to justify whatever arb point you’re trying to make.
The official SA Rugby site lists Jacobs as 91kg and not 88kg. This is not a lightweight, by any stretch of the imagination. Compare him to Carter (91kg), Tuitavake (89kg), Muliaina (92kg), Wulf (90kg) and he appears to be rather average. And that’s just some of the AB backs. Shall we start comparing him to players like Giteau?
So you pick the heaviest example – Nonu – and say we must match that? Which means that we should have picked a 120kg winger whenever we played Lomu or we wouldn’t have stood a chance.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:15 pm
#235 Thameside Bok fan: Not so sure, Thameside Bok…I can’t remember what happened in the S14 when the Sharks played the Hurricanes? Personally, I think it depends more on our defensive system rather than individual players…anyone can miss a tackle (eg. Frans Steyn against a much smaller Tate in the WC final). Normally, when you focus on individuals out wide, the AB’s end up scoring down the middle or close to the forwards.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:16 pm
#233 crazy ******:
No but the point is Adi does not deserve a run on place against the AB’s.
That’s fact. PdV might have a different view, but having watched Adi for a long long time I dont think he is that great.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:17 pm
katman – Good point. Alls i’m saying is Adi Jacobs doesn’t have that BMT needed for the real deal test arena, but i hope he proves us all wrong. But your are very right about your stats, i never saw pint size Paulse once back down from Lomu, but does Adi have that kind of right stuff?
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:19 pm
#239 grunt: Grunt, as far as I can see, beside the guys that are injured or retired, most of the WC final 22 are in NZ.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:19 pm
#234 grunt:
Maybe someone has already responded to this, but here’s my view on what you have to say:
a. Wynand Olivier – he lacks the vision and flair to really excel at the highest level; he has at times defended well but not a man for the future; despite all the chances he had in Jake’s time
b. Waylon Murray – a strong lad but not a natural ball player. Appears awkward at times and occassionally has a good game. His feel for the game and hands his biggest liabilities.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:21 pm
katman – I remember Jeremy Thompson from years back, great player for the Sharks but a dud for the Boks. But actualy to prove your point Halstead was a wopping 106kg but was a real let down for the Boks. So who knows!!!
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:22 pm
#243 grunt: Nonsense, that’s not the point you were making. You were talking kak about his weight. Now it’s suddenly is supposed lack of BMT, which is another complete thumbsuck. How do reach this definitive conclusion? He was actually one of the decent backs for the Boks recently – didn’t seem to be overawed at all. You’re speaking complete nonsense here just because you don’t like the guy. For whatever reason.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Sheriff – I guess we are all worried about Saturday coz all want the Boks to do the impossible and win these 2 games.
When is the team Bok being annouced?
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:24 pm
#239 grunt:
Ive said it a few times and il say it again I worry about his ego, it could cost the Boks in the long run.
#244 crazy ******:
That they are Crazy, but its whether they actually play or whether he sees fit to languish them on the bench, or worse the stands that worries me. Also on your comment 241 yes the team needs to be defensively sound but the team is made up of individuals if one guy misses a tackle the whole team pays the price. The Boks as a team are known for being defensively excellent, which is why Adi’s selection grates so much he clearly isnt a defensively sound center.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:25 pm
#242 Sheriff: Sheriff, that’s not fact, its an opinion. It’s fine if you don’t rate Jacobs, but the national coach and his backline coach clearly do.
Up until last year, a lot of people on this site thought Jon Smit/ Monty/ Januarie/ etc. didn’t deserve their places. Some people even refered to Habana as being a quota player when he first made it into the squad.
Now you hear the same thing about Jacobs/ Jantjies/ Mujati/ etc.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:27 pm
katman – Well i didn’t see much of the S14 as i don’t have sky, but all i have been reading for the last few months is how much of an impact Adi made from the bench. So i am making my assumptions on everyone’s comments. Of course i have seen him play years back, but he has never blown me away. And if his greatest impact was from the bench, does that quantify him starting a test against the ABs? Remember how the ABs found Russel out!!!!
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:27 pm
#230 crazy ******:
yes true..Smit is probably pissed about BJ omission ..is brian better then BJ??
fcking not.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:27 pm
#248 grunt:
I’m just waiting for Peter, then I’ll probably do it at the presser or he will.
Oh shucks, I’m giving my ID away here
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Sheriff – i wonder who else is using alter egos here, the tackler perhaps?
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:31 pm
#250 crazy ******:
Crazy, you will find that there is a helluva overlap between Sheriff® opinion and fact.
Read every single word I wrote there. He can come off the bench (when the game is already in the bag tho)
Dont go the quota route, you dont know who you’re dealiing with here.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Hi all……cant wait for Saturday!!!!
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:33 pm
#249 Thameside Bok fan: Would this be the same Bok team that got beat 49-0 a couple of seasons back, or conceded 4 tries against France in CT, or lost to NZ in Durban thanks to two late tries before last years WC? Under Jake White, we were know for our defensive system, rather than tackles made by individual players.
Like I said earlier, at some point every player misses a tackle (Steyn in the WC final). You can get 7 Frank Bunces in your backline…if they all run around like headless chickens, then you’re going to get hammered.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Crazy, easy tiger, whoa there on the quota talk. Habana was a sensation from day one. Even Jantjies was great all those years back when Viljoen played him against the Ozzies.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:34 pm
#255 Sheriff:
Thats tough I dont rate Adi as a true Test player but he doesn’t fit in the Quota box becuas he is obviously up to a standard of play that he could play International Rugby for another country. Its just whether we can look at him and not be able to name three or four guys that could arguably do a better job for the Boks. THATS the crux of the matter.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:36 pm
#254 grunt:
Not sure. But since you’re raising it – is your real name Grant?
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:38 pm
#252 greatest13gerber: G13G, I haven’t spoken to John Smit, so I have no idea how he feels. Either you know him well, and have spoken to him recently, ot you’ve based you opinion on…well not much really (apologies if you have actually spoken to him).
Personally I would have gone with BJ as well, he’s got more experience. What I’m saying is that, I don’t think it’s as critical as everyone is making out. If we get beat, I don’t think it’s going to be because of the scrum.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:39 pm
******,
BJ Botha non selection just doesn’t make sense at all. Its political and thats a fact.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:39 pm
#258 grunt: #255 Sheriff: #259 Thameside Bok fan: I’m not raising the quota issue. I’m using that example to illustrate how opinions change, and that’s all we’re giving here…our opinions.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:40 pm
No. But since i got graves disease last year and had have to take pills every day that give me major gas. Hence the name. Plus it is also the main ingredient that has made many a great Bok team
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:41 pm
#255 Sheriff: LOL Sheriff, I dont’ think there’s a helluva lot of overlap between your opinion and reality
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:42 pm
#259 Thameside Bok fan:
Several players get a favourable “bounce of the ball” in their careers. Wynand Olivier is one of them. Waylon another. Wayne Julies another and so on.
Now it’s Adi’s turn. He does have better distribution skills then the ones mentioned here. If I was coach he would be my Bob Skinstad when he was young; the one to turn on the magic with 15 min to go.
You’ll get a great combo with Waylon’s size/strength and Adi’s distrib skills and feel for the game. Think about it.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:44 pm
#265 crazy ******:
But then again, you’re a crazy ******. You said so yourself.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:44 pm
#262 greatest13gerber: Greatest, I just don’t think its political though. There are enough non-white players in the squad whereby one black prop isn’t going to make that big a difference. Also, if its all about politics, why not leave out a coloured guy like Pietersen or Jacobs for an “ethnic black” guy like Chavanga or Bobo.
I just don’t think BJ is rated that highly, period.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:49 pm
#267 Sheriff: With some of the names around, its a surprise people get as worked up as they do, LoL.
By the way, my post was meant as a joke, don’t think you got it.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:50 pm
#257 crazy ******:
It is not about missing tackles. It is about the tackles made/tackles missed ratio. We don’t have a better defensive center than Steyn.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:51 pm
BJ Botha is the best we have.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:54 pm
#269 crazy ******:
So was mine. Dont think you got it either.
Now what.
JUST FLIPPEN JOKING MATE, COOL BANANAS
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:55 pm
#271 greatest13gerber:
If it has to be a Botha, I will put my last bit of money on PW.
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:06 pm
#272 Sheriff: LoL.
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:08 pm
#270 klingon_x: Out of interest, what are the tackles made/ tackles made ratio for Jacobs as opposed to guys like Steyn, Fourie, etc?
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:09 pm
#118 Richie_7: “Emphasis is being placed on the scrum at this stage” because that is where our problem at this stage is. I beleve we have enough ceativity with Butch and Jean, and it they can get the ball on the front foot from the scrum, the’ll be even more potent.
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:09 pm
#273 Sheriff: Don’t forget about Pik!
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:09 pm
#262 greatest13gerber: Before you get all rightwing on us again, read my post: #22 katman: about BJ’s non-selection. It’s no blêk konspirrasie. PDV just doesn’t want to struggle with overseas based players.
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:13 pm
#275 crazy ******:
Would be very interesting to see can anyone pull up stats like that?!
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:15 pm
we are going to tear the AB’s a new one.
yeeeeeeeeeeha!!!!!!
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:30 pm
#278 katman:
so its political? ah well whats new..if BJ was black he would be there
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:49 pm
#281 greatest13gerber: And if you were black you’d be a security guard.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:31 pm
greatestprickonthissite
Does everything have to be a colour issue with you???
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:35 pm
#280 rangerman:
You have been in the bush for too long Ranger
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:41 pm
#284 NZINCHINA: lol, i am busy with my “hype” campaign mate.
no mr nice ranger the next two weeks. its showtimne and i am getting too excited to work!
cant wait for the HAKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:45 pm
#285 rangerman:
Nice one mate, have just bought the media zone package so get to watch it live
up here in the desert, going to be huge 50/50 call I would have thought.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:50 pm
#283 wpw:
No. I hate WP
focus on the issue..BJ is our best scrummager and he has being dropped for political reasons. FACT
Thank you.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:51 pm
#286 NZINCHINA: ja, probably 50/50.
nice one with the tv coverage mate. cant miss this one for all the tea in………uh, you know what i mean.
i just hope the taps are turned off for the game. i am looking forward to some hard grind mixed with some running rugby!
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:53 pm
ok, i am out.
cheers all.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:57 pm
#287
Is it a fact because YOU said so???
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:15 pm
#282 katman: Oh, silly me. I forgot you said you were one.
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:40 pm
#279 Thameside Bok fan: That’s why I asked…it’s a great point, if the actual stats back it up.
I’m sure that professional coaches in the S14 would have those kind of stats, and if Jacobs’ were so poor in comparison, I doubt **** would have been picking him ahead of guys like Steyn and Murray for the Sharks.
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:47 pm
#275 crazy ******
Last years’ stats are available for S14 at http://www.sarugby.com/news/Stats_Centre/
Jacob’s stats look good but it is quite misleading since he is used as a bench impact player because of his known poor defense. He comes on fresh and in the last 20 minutes of the game when the opponents have tired. In the game he started against the Tahs this season his channel was exploited.
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:47 pm
#292 crazy ******:
No I think he’d still get picked if his stats were not the best but could be described as “adequate”. Unfortunately thats the reality facing professional rugby in South Africa. I would wager a lot of money that Adi’s defensive stats are worse than some of the players he’s keeping out of the Bok side.
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:55 pm
#294 Thameside Bok fan:
His defense is know to be poor but he brings good attacking options to the backline. Only problem is – on Saturday it is going to be wet and he is going to face Nonu and Smith – not for the last 20 minutes when they have tired but for the entire match.
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:57 pm
#293 klingon_x: #294 Thameside Bok fan: I don’t know guys, that’s a pretty shaky point.
Klingon_x, I agree with your initial statement, that tackles made: missed ratio is more important, but the stats don’t back it up, so now you’re trying to massage it with the fact that he played mainly off the bench.
Thameside, if as you’re implying its simply a matter of him being “adequate” enough (i.e. black enough), then why haven’t they picked somene like Murray or Bobo instead? Let more state upfront, that personally I would have prefered Bobo, based on S14 form, but most of time when people talk about “the reality facing professional rugby in South Africa”, they’re not actually basing their points in reality. Couldn’t it be that PdV just rates Jacobs? (Whether he’s right or wrong will be proven shortly). When Jake insisted on picking Jaco or Olivier, even though everyone thought they were rubbish, was that also a selection based on “the reality facing professional rugby in South Africa”? I just dont’ get the double standard?!
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:07 pm
#296 crazy ******:
No Olivier was just rubbish anyway!!
I think Kling makes a valid point however with the comment about Adi being used as a super sub in the final twenty. Its much easier to defend towards the end of a game when the other players are tired and you’re fresh than starting at parity at kickoff. Truth be told id prefer Bradley Barritt there and if not then Bobo (With reservations about his pace) The point I am trying to make is that Adi’s selection is perplexing, for whatever reason, as he is clearly not the best STARTING option that PDV has at his disposal. If England had persisted with Charlie at 10 people would scratch their heads as he’s clearly not the best that England have. Ditto Jacobs and the Boks.
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:07 pm
#296 crazy ******:
So why do you think **** decided, several seasons now, to play him mainly of the bench ? Do you think all the sport writers and pundits are part of some racist conspiracy when they attribute it to his weak defensive game ?
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:11 pm
#298 klingon_x: I’m not say anything about race, and I’m not basing my opinion on sports writers or pundits…there’s a reason why they’re writers and pundits and not coaches by the way. So why do you think **** decide to start him in most games this year?
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:19 pm
#297 Thameside Bok fan: Jaco too, LoL!
The thing Kling doesn’t point out is that Steyn wasn’t a regular starter last year either…he backed up Butch and Monty most of the season, and he didn’t play one minute of last years S14 in midfield. Coming on at fullback is a little easier defensively, than coming on at centre, even if it is at the end of the game.
Like I said, Jacobs isn’t my first choice either, but I don’t think it’s because of anything else other than the fact that he is a talented player, and his defensive “frailties” (in comparison with who people want to replace him) is a little overhyped.
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:25 pm
“So why do you think **** decide to start him in most games this year?”
He did not start him in most games this year.
Despite injuries to Michalak and Barritt and the poor form of players like Murray and Pieteren, Muir only started Jacobs from game no. 13. **** preferred to play Steyn against the NZ teams and gave Jacobs a chance against the Cheetahs and a pisspoor Chiefs team. As I have said – Jacobs disappeared in the semi-final.
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:30 pm
#301 klingon_x: As I recall, most of the Sharks team disappeared in the final
Also, weren’t the games against the Cheetahs and Chiefs the Sharks two best showings of the season? And didn’t Steyn play in pretty much every position in the backline – I only recall him starting one game at outside centre though…so why would **** prefer Jacobs to Steyn, in only the final (and most important – remember they weren’t assured of a semi until the very last game) games of the season???
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:35 pm
#300 crazy ******:
“The thing Kling doesn’t point out is that Steyn wasn’t a regular starter last year either…he backed up Butch and Monty most of the season, and he didn’t play one minute of last years S14 in midfield. Coming on at fullback is a little easier defensively, than coming on at centre, even if it is at the end of the game.”
Please – Steyn was the Boks best defensive player in the RWC last year too. His defensive stats are 34/2. Compare that to James 31/8, Fourie 29/4 and Habana 25/5.
Steyn made 34 tackles and missed 2 in 7 matches.
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:42 pm
#302 crazy ******:
“Also, weren’t the games against the Cheetahs and Chiefs the Sharks two best showings of the season?’
Against the weakest opposition, ffs. Cheetahs ended at 13 and a week before the Sharks/Chiefs game the Lions last on the log smashed that very same Chiefs team. That is the problem with the Sharks supporters – the only time they ever looked good this season was at home against a piss-poor Chiefs team. And now they are struggling to beat Boland at home.
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:42 pm
#303 klingon_x: Yep, great point…if we were comparing Steyn to James, Fourie and Habana in last years WC.
The point of hauling out stats to compare two players, is that you actually use them to compare the two players.
So basically, you brought out the S14 from 2007 to make your point, realised that you couldn’t, so now you’re bringing out stats from a totally different competition (in which SA never faced NZ by the way), to prove what exactly?!
Kling, I get your general point…you’re worried about Jacobs defence…noted…but this is going nowhere.
Let’s just hope like hell that he proves you wrong
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:46 pm
#304 klingon_x: Point is, Muir picked him for their most important match (semi)…and since **** coaches the guy everyday, l reckon he has a better idea of the guys ability than we do.
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:51 pm
#305 crazy ******:
I have explained to you that Jacobs is a bench player because his defense is poor and therefore his stats looks good. Frans Steyn you claim played off the bench and I have showed you that his stats at S14 and RWC where he played most games at 12 are very similar. You didn’t explain yet why you think Muir has been playing him off the bench for the past three seasons.
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:56 pm
#306 crazy ******:
That was a huge mistake. Folding under pressure Jacobs spilled the ball in the tackle for the first try. On defense he was generally missing. I think the Sharks would have been much better off with 9. Pienaar, 10. Barritt, 12. Steyn and 13. Murray.
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:04 pm
#307 klingon_x: Yawn, last post before bed…
Where Muir played him in the past three seasons before this one is irrelevant. Because Saturday’s match isn’t against the 2005/ 06/ 07 All Blacks. Obviously, in those seasons, Muir thought he wasn’t as good a starting option as Murray, or whoever player 13 before that. But by the same reasoning, he started him in this season S14 because he thought he was a better option than anyone else the Sharks had.
Frans Steyn’s stats in the WC were great…but its not the 2007 WC. The best guide to Saturday’s test is this seasons S14.
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:07 pm
#308 klingon_x: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:09 pm
@crazymonkey
I agree with you that bobes probably would have been a better option that adi going on super 14 for (bobes was the best inside centre in s.a. s14-wise). at least i think you said that in one of your posts!? I also agree that many posters (and s.africans) have double standards when it comes to black players- perhaps the second guessing could be interpreted as a long, shrill cry for help-anyways thats not the point of this post. i also see some posters would prefer to have brad barritt there for his defense and distribution skills, but nobody has mentioned barritts very noticeable lack of pace. i would be interested to see a foot-race between barritt and bobo- bobo probably has better accelleration, and i dont see barritt catching him over 50. bobes defense has also been watertight this year, and his passing skills have always been outstanding (except when the no-look pass doesnt come off!) adi has greater pace and accelleration than either of them, and he is unpredictable (often in a good way). though i would prefer to see bobo partner jean, with steyn up as a possible sub, (i’d prefer him at flyhalf once he realises you actually have to pass a few times before anyone buys the dummy) i am happy to see adi get a chance to show what hes got against the best in the world. go bokbokkies!
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Where’s BigTwit? An interview from an opium pushing slave trading rag today with their new boss:
“A lot of thought and detail went into the squad,” said Johnson. “The experimental laws coming in next season were a factor: we will have to look at our line out, which is why we went for Nick Kennedy, and we will need to play, move the ball wide and get around the field, which is why Tom Varndell got the nod. New Zealand showed us where we need to get to.”
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:44 pm
#15 stew:
I have known some very nice ducks’ arses and some of them were nearly as big as Hit’s
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:44 pm
#15 stew:
I have known some very nice ducks’ arses and some of them were nearly as big as Big Hit’s
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:04 pm
#196 iceman:
Tricky ******** those Kiwis.
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:04 pm
#196 iceman:
Tricky ******** those Kiwis.
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:08 pm
The Bokke are favourites but I predict the Blacks will win by somewhere between 1 and 44. Lol. Listen to the ARC commentary. It is really gross, unless you are a Black fan.
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:30 pm
So we’re all agreed Boks to take it by some margin as they are the best side in the world
World Champions, Ranked No 1, World Cup winners
The result shouldnt even be in doubt
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:06 pm
#312 AiDoc: “New Zealand showed us where we need to get to.”
NZ were a new team, missing players, and unpolished at the beginning of their intn season. England need to aspire a little higher than that I’d have thought.