Bok scrum expect AB onslaught
Springbok captain John Smit has highlighted the importance of outscrumming the All Blacks in the first Tri Nations Test in New Zealand.
It’s been a disappointing facet for the Boks, as they struggled in the first Test against Wales and then against a third-rate Italy front row. The man who lent them stability, BJ Botha, is not on tour while there is a possibility youngsters Brian Mujati and Beast Mtawarira could come up against Tony Woodcock and Greg Somerville.
Smit told Die Burger that this set-piece will present the most significant challenge of the 5 July fixture.
“The All Blacks have dominated their opponents in the scrums in every match they’ve played this season,” he said. “The All Blacks got the upper hand, despite England’s strong scrum. That’s a feather in their caps.”
The English didn’t provide much resistance for New Zealand, who scored comfortable victories in both of the two Tests. These were merely warm-ups for the upcoming clash against the World Champions.
“There are some Test matches that you know will be hard,” Smit said. “The All Blacks in New Zealand is one of those in which the physical aspect is non-negotiable.
“If you don’t stand up in that respect, you’re going to be on the back foot from the outset. We must not let ourselves down from a physical viewpoint.”
Smit said the absence of All Blacks captain of Richie McCaw won’t debilitate the hosts.
“The All Blacks would, of course, have liked Richie to be part of their team but there is no such thing as a weak All Blacks team. And they’re playing at home, which is a huge factor.”
The Bok captain also denounced the new laws. Saturday will be the first time he plays under the ELVs having spent the European season with French club Clermont.
“They never tried to reinvent the wheel before, so why do it now. There was nothing wrong with the old laws, and you couldn’t find an empty seat in stadiums in France.”
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:35 am
You have to wonder how **** and Gary Okay’ed BJ’s submission. They might not rate him either and know something we don’t.
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:36 am
*omission
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:40 am
# Dumb Supporter:
Rather read between the lines.
John Smit would have only gone to war on Saturday with one tight head, and that is BJ.
He knows better than anybody how the All Black front row are licking their lips, and also knows that he will be under pressure.
He has to be diplomatic, and cannot tell all of us that the coach has made a mistake.
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:47 am
John must say all he can before the match. After having his head scrummed through his arse on Saturday, he is pretty much going to battle to say anything.
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:52 am
It was a very,very risky to leave BJ at home and Smit knows it. Could mean trouble, but maybe it wont be too bad? Can’t Smit also play tighthead? He’ll move in there after the AB’s fold our tightheads into a interesting pretzel shape..
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:57 am
screw outscrumming the ABs parity alone would be fantastic!
ABs are smart. the ELV require a clever kicking game, and Carter under Deans at the Crusaders was brilliant this season with his kicking under ELVs. The ABs will keep the ball infield, and make it extremely difficult for the boks to find touch, so there will be few lineouts for us to exert our superiority there.\
The game will be tight, and we will need our loosies to dominate completely to have a chance. That said the weather will probably be atrocious in Welly on Friday and the ABs have the recent experience of playing Ireland there in the crappest conditions.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:00 am
Isn’t BJ’s exclusion due to him moving to Ireland at the end of this season???
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:03 am
well with a bad scrum you will all see why we need pienaar or better du preez there. i like januarie and think he is playing very well, but wait till he has to play behind a pressured scrum and then we will see what he is made off. i hope that bolla isnt on the bench cause he will really battle against the AB
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:03 am
#3 tight head:
“John Smit would have only gone to war on Saturday with one tight head, and that is BJ.”
Do you have proof of that (a quote or something similar) or is it just your opinion?
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:03 am
WPW , dont buy that , overseas players qualify to play for the boks.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:04 am
I watched a program on Saturday morning showing highlights of the ‘95 final. The All Black scrum was really demolished sometimes. I cant see the ex-Stormer forward coach creating a dominant Springbok scrum without some help.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:05 am
#7 wpw:
With that reasoning there are others who should have been excluded.
Secondly, even if a player was only available this year, wouldn’t you as new coach, playing in your first test against NZ in NZ, not select your strongest players.
Don’t tell me about building for the future please, this is not the time for that!!
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:05 am
Dazzler , people read into things how they want too , these days u dont seem to have much proof , that is very much evident of the some of the **** spurted out here nowadays (Articles and not postings)
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:06 am
#11 It is just a game:
The key phrase in that post was “ex-Stormer forward coach”… it shows what your opinion is based on.
Gary gold is the best forwards coach in this country and the Boks are lucky to have him
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:06 am
#6 munkiboi: As usual this game will be as tight as a ducks arse …. The proplem is that if we gain superiority in the loose will our scrum be able to keep a steady enough platform to allow adequate go forward ball ….. must play Guthro and CJ ….. we need experience for these tests … this test will probably come down to the kickers , hopefully Butch has his kicking boots on.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:07 am
#11 , thats cos Kobous alone weighed 200kg
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:09 am
#9 Dazzler:
Dazz it is my opinion.
That is what we all have here!!
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:10 am
#17 tight head:
Ok cool just checking, so its not fact then
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:12 am
#18 Dazzler:
Well Dazz it is an opinion based on what Smit has said in the past about BJ.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:14 am
I think what we’re all forgetting is, we will be facing an AB scrum that demolished the English scrum including Sheridan. Thats the same Sheridan that shoved BJ’s head up his own *** in the 36-0 game. However in the final and against CJ, Sheridan was nullified and at times even dominated.
i think we’re better off with CJ. Although I like a good strong BJ, sometimes it’s just not enough
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:16 am
Can anyone possibly explain the omission of BJ. Does he give away that many penalties? Are the coaches up to something? Have they identified something in the ABs ? They aren’t saying anything – which makes a change and is probably just as well. Any theories?
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:17 am
#7 wpw: I have no doubt that this is the reason.
#12 tight head: Such as? PDV made it clear that he was only considering two players from overseas – picked from Vic, Butch, Smit and Monty – and that he would prefer his entire squad to play locally. And he has managed to get all four those players to return here. So why on earth would he make an exception for BJ? He’s good, but he’s nowhere near the profile of the four mentioned above.
BJ’s move to Ireland cost him his Bok spot. And I expect CJ to be dropped pretty soon too. If his announcement had come any sooner, he wouldn’t be touring either. And, in a way, I respect that. PDV wants his squad available without delays and disruptions (and international prima-donnas). He doesn’t want a Benni McCarthy on his hands. Or a situation like in Argentina, where they can never get their players released for international duty.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:19 am
#19 tight head:
Like you have maintained previously, the margin in the scrums will probably be about six inches.
I don’t expect that our scrum will be shoved around, surely these guys are not that stupid that they wouldn’t have spent some serious time working on this aspect of their game?
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:20 am
If BJ was in the same ‘league’ as Smit or Butch then one can understand why PDV would want to select him even though he plays overseas.
He is not in their league and we did well at the WC without him.
I’m not saying he should not be selected. I think that he is replaceable and this is why the selectors have chosen Mujati (to invest in him)
Why then does PDV want Butch to return to play in SA?
He has always made it clear that he prefers our Springboks playing in SA.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:21 am
#14 Dazzler: My opinion was based on the fact that the Stormer’s scrum was probably the weakest of the Super 14 sides.The scrums is a facet were they will nead some experts to help out.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:21 am
In the combination of Woodcock and Sommerville you have 2 of the best technicians in the game.
Very importantly they are comfortable setting the scrum platform from the hit at a low level.
That is the key, and if we play Guthro and CJ there is no doubt that those 2 scrum too high, and that will be a disadvantage against Woodcock and Sommerville.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:22 am
#22 katman: Howdy kat, couldn’t agree more with you on your post on BJ above.
Min dae to daddy time?? Getting excited yet? Hopefully you are getting some sleep.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:22 am
#21 rex:
My theory is this. People keep comparing Mujati and BJ, but I don’t think that’s the case. We should be comparing CJ and BJ.
I believe the Bok coaches view CJ as their first choice tighthead, BJ as number 2, and Mujati as the up and coming youngster at number 3. In light of the fact that BJ is now off overseas (so is CJ but they didnt know it at the time) and wont be playing for the Boks all that much due to the restrictions in place, they figured they might as well start grooming Mujati to take over as the number 2 tighthead in the squad, behind CJ. Hence the reason they selected their tightheads as 1. CJ and 2. Mujati.
This theory makes the most sense to me, and I think that is the case. But now watch them select Mujati to start and blow my theory out the water!
People are too quick to come up with these conspiracies, naming racial reasons etc etc. when their might just be a logical rugby explanation
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:26 am
#25 It is just a game:
Oh really?? Did we watch the same S14 then? Only the last few games where the Stormers lost a number of props to injury and Mujati was played out of position did they struggle.
They dominated the Bulls scrum in the first game of the season, as well as a number of other teams scrums, including the Hurricanes until JD Moller was injured and Mujati had to switch sides. If i remember correctly they even shoved the Sharks around a bit…
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:29 am
#22 katman:
I hear you, and understand your point.
The thing is that whatever the long term plans are eventually about overseas contracted players, I think still remains to be seen.
My main point is in this test you would play your very best players, irespective of any other reason but to beat the All Blacks in NZ.
The coach would tell me that is exactly what he is doing.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:30 am
#29 Dazzler:
We watched the same S14 mate.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:34 am
#28 Dazzler:
Dazz, your theory makes good sense.
However it boils down to who is the better tight head?
CJ or BJ?
I believe that if you got the qualified opinion of every loose head who played in the S14 this year, that the answer would be BJ by a long way.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:34 am
Does any1 have a clue as to the possible make up of the bok team that will be named tomorrow?
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:35 am
#30 tight head: Hey tight-head, I enjoy reading your posts about the scrums and agree with you on most points. I foresee the big problem not really being with CJ and Guthro, they hopefully won’t get shunted too badly. But if there is an injury during this tour, we are in big kak. Also by playing Guthro and CJ, you have to have Mujati on the bench to cover injuries, whereas if you started with CJ and BJ you could have Beast on the bench, who I believe would have a bigger impact at the end stages of the game.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:38 am
#32 tight head:
Thats fine and that’s your opinion, personally I might even have gone for BJ. But i think it is much of a muchness, BJ is strong in the scrums but gets chucked around like a rag doll n the loose. CJ is a good scrummager and a monster in the loose.
So the coach believes CJ is the better option
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:39 am
#35 Dazzler: BJ cleans out the rucks like a legend. I agree not as effective with ball in hand.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:40 am
cj,smit,beast,bakkies,victor,juan,hulk,joe, ricky, butch,bryan,jean,adrian,odwa,percy
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:41 am
i might be 1 or 2 out
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:41 am
#36 Francois Steyn is over-rated:
i dont know, for some reason for me BJ looks too small and too weak on his feet (scrums aside), much like Gary Botha. They remind me of each other
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:41 am
The debate on whether BJ should be there or not is a bit futile, he’s not there.
What the boks have do going into this test is ensure at least parity in the scrums. Which would probably suggest a front row of Guthro, Smit and CJ. If we do get parity then the AB’s are going to be in trouble because this is where they expect to annihilate the boks.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:42 am
#35 Dazzler:
Dazz, I understand you, and do not want to labour the point.
However it needs to be understood that in a test against the All Blacks you pick your best tight head scrummager.
That is the first criteria.
You do not pick your second best scrummager who is better in the loose.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:42 am
#24 wpw:
Mujati is a long way off – not sure he will EVER be capable of test rugby. And its not the place to invest in him during the TriNations – this boy should have been sent ofdf to the emerging Springboks tournament
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:42 am
Morning everyone!!!!
Does anyone know when the Bok team will be announced?
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:43 am
#9 Dazzler: John was part of the reason why BJ became a Bok, he used his influence with Jake to get him selected
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:44 am
#29 Dazzler:
Shoving teams around at scrum time does not win tournaments, or games for that matter
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:44 am
#14 Dazzler:
Ja, but do you think he has any technical knowlage of how a prop must scrum? I don’t think it will hurt to get a guy like Os or Visagie or Kempson in just as a consaltant for the props
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:45 am
#43 SharkMarine: 12h30 NZ time at the weekly press conference held on Thursdays, so depending where in the the world you are the time would be different
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:46 am
#29 Dazzler: And they also had uncontested scrums
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:46 am
#39 Dazzler: Watch him closely on Friday night against the Bulls, you might change your opinion.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:46 am
#45 Richie_7:
i didnt say it did, thats not what the discussion was about