White could return to down Boks
21 Oct 2008
Jake White has expressed interest in a role with the British and Irish Lions for their South African tour in 2009.
White, who coached the Springboks to the World Cup title in 2007, has been out of rugby for nearly a year, but has admitted that he is in discussions with Lions boss Ian McGeechan about the possibility of joining their coaching staff.
White told The Times newspaper: “I’ve made it clear to McGeechan that I’m actively in the market for a job in rugby and I believe I can add value. It’s up to him and the Lions organisation to decide if they need me.
White has also been in discussions with McGeechan about a short-term deal with Premiership club Wasps and has discussed a similar deal with close friend and Saracens Director of Rugby Eddie Jones.
“Now I’m suddenly faced with a choice, which was something I didn’t have, or didn’t seek, for almost a year,” he said.
White has made no secret of the fact that he would prefer a Director of Rugby role in South Africa, but said that SA Rugby seem to be disinterested in that proposal.
“I made it clear to South African rugby that I wanted to be involved in helping them because I feel I have a lot to give back to rugby. But they haven’t expressed an interest in using me, so I have to look at my options.”
319 Comments
21 Oct 2008, 08:20 am
Why not? He’s a pro.
21 Oct 2008, 08:24 am
Seeing Jake go up against PdV will be like watching a dog fight between a pitbull and a poodle… perhaps that’s exactly what we need:)
21 Oct 2008, 08:25 am
white dragon?
21 Oct 2008, 08:27 am
That’s why i absolutely hate sa rugby and johan prinsloo. But why would jake white want to be a traitor now. So soon after winning a world cup.
21 Oct 2008, 08:28 am
Pdv would have the pitbull team though while white would have the poodle team.
21 Oct 2008, 08:29 am
#4 Wezwp: how do you see it as being a traitor? the man needs to work doesn’t he? and if SA wont use him he has to look elsewhere
21 Oct 2008, 08:30 am
#5 Wezwp: hehehe
21 Oct 2008, 08:31 am
this okes so desperate to get a job, it’s actually becoming embarrassing.
21 Oct 2008, 08:31 am
Jake White will not be employed by the British Lions. This is only another marketing ploy by a desperate man who is unable to find a decent job anywhere in the rugby world.
21 Oct 2008, 08:34 am
#8 the peanut gallery: I am in agreement……seems to be a persona non Grata in the rugby community
21 Oct 2008, 08:35 am
White is blackmailing sarugby , he loves doing it.
21 Oct 2008, 08:35 am
I think White would like to show SA Rugby the finger by doing this, and I cannot blame him for wanting to do that. And it will also show up the bad business they did letting a guy like White go, after investing all that money in him and with his track record/performance at the WC.
And Frikie – agreed, and it may be a good thing if it speeds up the self-destruction in SA Rugby, so they can crash and burn properly and start fresh. Then we will see the real potential of the players, and the fans for that matter.
But I know, just a dream. ‘Wish the sponsors will get a bit hardegat and take a position or two. After all it is a Sasol/SAB? whoever jersey too. Or could OMO step in a sponsor – Watson and Khompela might have a deal in place?
21 Oct 2008, 08:36 am
I was about to say,”where is Skoppie, when you need him”
No need, his agent appeared!!
Morning Rob.
21 Oct 2008, 08:36 am
Sorry, OMO not a good sponsor for Watson et al – my girlfriend reckons VANISH would work much better.
21 Oct 2008, 08:38 am
#8 the peanut gallery: i’m with you there….
21 Oct 2008, 08:39 am
Jake White will not assist the Lions against the Boks…he will assist the Lions over the King Protea’s!!!
Muhahahahahahahahahahahahaha
21 Oct 2008, 08:40 am
#13 tight head:
Morning Tighthead,
Since when is it a crime to have a few similar views than Skoppy? I even agree with you sometimes
21 Oct 2008, 08:42 am
Anyone who believes a man, who has seen and been through everything from the worst his trade can offer to the absolute pinacle of world glory in that same trade, like Jake White can become persona non grata is either in denial or just as blind to indispensible quality as our legendary SA Rugby administrators!
21 Oct 2008, 08:43 am
#17 Robzim:
Exactly Rob.
Just my way of keeping up the friendly banter.
Seriously though, I cannot see the Lions employing Jake.
21 Oct 2008, 08:46 am
I’ve got no problem with Jake coaching any team in the world!
Same as i have no problem for anyone to work anywhere in the world.
To “hate” him cause his views differs from mine would be…. let’s think…. aaaaag just childish!
Not my best friend but hell he delivered!
21 Oct 2008, 08:46 am
#12 RugbyRIP: i don’t think white cares for SA rugby as much as he says he does. i do think he’s got a chip on his shoulder and expected the world to jump at his services after winning the wc. there might even be some resentment that meyer got such a high profile coaching job and he is sitting high and dry…….
he is a good coach. i hope he finds his niche.
21 Oct 2008, 08:47 am
#18 frikie: was saying that that is the feeling I get, I dont think it…….but he is struggling to find a job is he not?
21 Oct 2008, 08:49 am
#19 tight head: tight head, i aggree with you… i seriously doubt the Lions will appoint Jake… The Lions are after-all a proud brand and will most likely look to keep their ‘homegrown’ talents in the mix (perhaps we can learn from them).
21 Oct 2008, 08:50 am
Jake and Eddie will make a good coaching team. They work together very good and i believe if you have to give them a young team to work with they will build them into a world cup winning team.
21 Oct 2008, 08:51 am
#22 EEE: perhaps e is struggling to find work, or perhaps its just a case of a man who knows what he’s qualified to do and not willing to settle for anything less – i doubt he’s “desperate”.
21 Oct 2008, 08:52 am
how is ex wife Jake?
fcking traitor if he help Lions next year. This wil be vindictive move by Jake.
21 Oct 2008, 08:52 am
#18 frikie:
Can’t agree more. For all the K@k he has had to put up with he needs to be knighted.
21 Oct 2008, 08:56 am
#27 Cape Shark: What better way to be knighted than to coach the British & Irish Lions to victory over the supposed world champs:) …just kidding, please don’t hate me or swear at me, i hope the boks donder the lions all the way back to their miserable little rain drenched island(s)
21 Oct 2008, 08:56 am
#27 Cape Shark: well for some reason no-one wants him. not just in sa, but in europe as well.
21 Oct 2008, 08:56 am
#21 Windhond_Sharks: Agreed that JW over-estimated his position and screwed up by making some of the statements he did – this one being no different.
Fact remains, he has a lot to offer and to let him just play with his whatever is a waste.
Which brings me to your point re Meyer – could be so, but so what? I am more concerned that we are going to lose more good coaches like Meyer and then we are stuck with the PdV’s and Coetzee’s of the world. And nobody will buy them
21 Oct 2008, 08:57 am
#23 frikie: NZ-born Graham Henry, current AB coach, was the Wales coach and the British Lions coach against Australia in 2001.
21 Oct 2008, 08:58 am
#26 greatest13gerber: traitor huh? if your mom kicks you out the house and refuses to ever let you sit around her table. Would we be justified in calling you a family traitor if went looking for food somewhere else?
21 Oct 2008, 09:00 am
#32 frikie:
there is vindictiveness in action here if Jake is invokved in Lions next year.
he wil want show up PDV.
we need read betwenm line here
21 Oct 2008, 09:02 am
I don’t disaggree… but if i were JW i’d also want to stik to PdV who has taken the team i led to WC glory and stuffed them up all in the course of a few months…
21 Oct 2008, 09:03 am
#18 frikie: Amen! I’m a little disappointed in some of the comments, guys. Hope you didn’t down a cold one on Jake after WC 07 and now resort to this type of junk. The man has done it, seems only in SA where we can still break our heroes down. Jake gave us heroes from nowhere eg. Habana, Steyn, Os, Monty from retirement. Please guys, respect that at least.
ps: He also warned us of Mr. Watson’s poison……prophesy fullfilled
21 Oct 2008, 09:03 am
#26 greatest13gerber:
I wonder what you call Meyer sitting in the UK now poaching Bulls players?
As far as White is concerned, I hope he stays in rugby, it is obviously his passion and one can only respect what he achieved in SA Rugby despite so many trying to derail him.
He has been active in the sport in a coaching capacity for over a decade now, including the biggest stage of them all.
No doubt this guy has an intimate knowledge of the game, valuable intellectual property, which most teams in the world will value. Hell maybe he can go show Henry how to win a WC and stop the 20+-year lean years for NZ!
Pity he burnt his bridges in SA, to me he would have been the perfect candidate to revive rugby in the Eastern Cape.
21 Oct 2008, 09:05 am
#36 PissAnt:
Meyer was worse treated by homeland then Jakekl.
I beleieve that Jake is coming back too early. Getting involved with Lions nexty year will be bad move as memory stil frsh from his departures
21 Oct 2008, 09:07 am
#37 greatest13gerber:
Every single coach in this country will get burnt at one stage or another.
I do not agree so much of it being too early for him to come back.
When something is your passion and gift, like music or painting for instance a break is good, but you can never stay away from it for too long.
21 Oct 2008, 09:07 am
poor east Cape
yes, someone needs to stepup and doe somethiong. I am disgusted by Cheeky abandening OP. He use it for political advantage then left.
I pray I liv e til day OP and Despatch rugby is again back in limelight
21 Oct 2008, 09:07 am
#29 the peanut gallery: What is your source? Who does not want him. We cannot believe everything you hear.
21 Oct 2008, 09:08 am
Oi people, this was my first time chatting here… and it certainly won’t be the last, but i’ve gotta go. Just a thought, do you guys actually work?
1 last comment; Jake white rocks! he has the record to prove it… who here wants to stare a world cup medal in the face and say its worthless?
21 Oct 2008, 09:08 am
#38 PissAnt:
the porodigal son?
wil we boo him?
wil NTvl blood spit on him?
wil he speak on Watson comments??
21 Oct 2008, 09:09 am
#30 RugbyRIP: hey, seriously, with the talent we have in this country you can let Benni McCarthy coach the bok team, they will still pose a threat to any international team in the world.
But i get your point…..rightly so.
21 Oct 2008, 09:09 am
White Power!
21 Oct 2008, 09:10 am
#42 greatest13gerber:
Jake will not come back to SA rugby soon, that I agree with, not with all the elements still there that hated his guts. He made them look like fools.
I see no problem with him coaching internationally though – not too soon/late for that.
21 Oct 2008, 09:11 am
Jake White is an excellent international coach. I don’t think there is any arguement in that. Were he an ordinary citizen like you and me, I don’t think he’d be a friend of mine. That said, if I were SA rugby(or McGeechan) I’d definitely hire his talents in any supporting capacity because, as he says, he would add value. Lots.
21 Oct 2008, 09:12 am
#46 TASSIES: That’s the point!
21 Oct 2008, 09:15 am
#45 PissAnt: morning PA. Just a quickie. Did you ever meet Jake W? Just interested.
21 Oct 2008, 09:17 am
#40 common sense: i’m only commenting on what is said.
i think jake did a great job at and leading up to the world cup, but he talks too much and is always volunteering to coach here and/or become director of rugby there.
just shut-up and apply for the job if it’s available. don’t go aroung telling the world that you are available for this, that and the other job. there are channels to do that.
21 Oct 2008, 09:18 am
my take on Jake(and it’s only an armslength observation) is that he is rather self-aborbed, absolutely determined and wont suffer lesser mortals lightly.
21 Oct 2008, 09:19 am
#42 greatest13gerber: ****. you pissed this morning?
what you on about?
21 Oct 2008, 09:19 am
#49 the peanut gallery: kinda agree with that Peanut.
21 Oct 2008, 09:19 am
#49 the peanut gallery:
wel said. think Jake is followinghg his agent advice by talking big
21 Oct 2008, 09:22 am
#48 TASSIES:
In person no – but through other mediums yes, at some stage.
21 Oct 2008, 09:25 am
#42 greatest13gerber:
I see old Danie G still has some spring in his legs.
He was recently approached by 6 dodgy looking youths on a PE beach while walking his dog. According to the newspapers he took of like a bat out of hell and left them for dead.
I always thought old Despatcher’s never run away
21 Oct 2008, 09:25 am
#51 the peanut gallery: G3 runs to a different clock to us. He’s probably into his 9th Steinlager by now and struggling a little. He’s not what he was when he propped up the tight side of the Despatch motor assemblers back in the 70′s, nailing a crate of Black Labels each at half time.
21 Oct 2008, 09:26 am
The sensible application of Jake White would be to send him into the Eastern Cape, set up a Rugby Academy and go about recruiting and coaching a franchise.
That should prove his worth as a Director of Coaching.
21 Oct 2008, 09:26 am
#54 PissAnt: ja. ditto.
21 Oct 2008, 09:28 am
#54 PissAnt:
Maybe just some clarification…
Seeing him in person and listening to him, yes. Met him personally and chat to him – no.
21 Oct 2008, 09:28 am
#57 Umlungu: Doubt JW would be interested in piswilly little jobs like that which you propose. He’s a World Cup coach and this would probably be taken as an insult. In a way it is.
21 Oct 2008, 09:29 am
Some great news though – India just thrashed Aus.
21 Oct 2008, 09:31 am
#60 TASSIES: got to do some work guys. I’m outta here. Cheers. later.
21 Oct 2008, 09:33 am
#55 Robzim:
no youw rong, Despatch never run. That breed them tough like steel balls
21 Oct 2008, 09:34 am
#61 PissAnt: i’ll have a vindaloo tonight in celebration.
21 Oct 2008, 09:39 am
#60 TASSIES:
Why can’t a World Cup Coach who was previously a video analyst and technical advisor not run a Rugby Academy?
Let me explain something to you. Long before Bryan Habana “burst” on the scene, which was only through TV coverage and TV coverage does not make you a better player, just gives you more exposure, Habana was “tagged” by the Sports Science Institute as an elite player, then 3 years later he hits your radar screen.
It is precisely the kind of preconceived notion that you have on what is correct and right and wrong that causes divisions within rugby.
What better statement for SA Rugby to make than to have a World Cup Coach running an Academy. This is not for life, It is for 12 months.
21 Oct 2008, 09:45 am
I don’t think White would name names and teams if it was not so.
Good luck to him. He deserves the break.
21 Oct 2008, 09:46 am
#66 blhoo:
problem is, whole S Amedia wil focus on him next year
21 Oct 2008, 10:07 am
In ‘n onlangse studie deur Wits is bevind die gemiddelde Suid-Afrikaner stap omtrent 1200 kilometer per jaar.
Intussen is in ‘n studie deur die SA Mediese Vereniging bevind Suid-Afrikaners drink gemiddeld sowat 50 liter alkohol per jaar.
Dit beteken Suid-Afrikaners kry gemiddeld sowat 24 kilometer op ‘n liter……!
Dit maak mens mos trots Suid-Afrikaans !!
21 Oct 2008, 10:12 am
Jake White is the best coach in world rugby. Too few of us stood his corner when he was the Bok coach. I am proud to say with the exception of a few drunken emotional pledges to castrate him after the 49-0 loss to Australia that I have always been a Jake White man. To win a RWC with the Boks given all the **** going on in the background ranks him above ***** in my book and only smidgen below Papa Smurf.
In 1997 the Lions had Johnson, Leonard, Keith Wood, Dallaglio, Hill, Scott Gibbs, Neil Jenkins, Jerry Guscott, Matt Dawson, Scott Quinell and then John Bentley clowning around keeping morale up as entertainment director and try scorer extrodinaire.
Next years Lions squad has nobody who sticks their hand up and looks capable of leading a successful assault on these shores. O’Driscoll’s star has collapse and his cunning and guile seems to have disappeared into the resulting black hole. Quite frankly there is not a single British player I would consider good enough to carry what will be at best a pedestrian touring side.
The Boks have a serious deficiency at coach whereas McGeechan is a tried and tested old campaigner who despite being far too wily for our muppet will simply not have the playing staff to compete.
Jake would do well to avoid involvement on this tour for two very good reasons.
1. Pick your fights
2. Revenge is a dish best eaten cold.
Bide your time Jake buddy there is no point giving the peanut gallery ammunition.
I suspect that you and/ or Heynecke might yet be tasked with pulling off an eleventh hour rescue job come NZ in 2011.
21 Oct 2008, 10:13 am
I think the fact that White is running around telling everybody he is still in rugby and wants a job rather than them going out and actually getting him, says a lot about the damage his book did him. Teams/unions/Countries don’t want a coach who sells their dirty secrets when he leaves
21 Oct 2008, 10:17 am
Too few of us stood his corner when he was the Bok coach. I am proud to say with the exception of a few drunken emotional pledges to castrate him after the 49-0 loss to Australia that I have always been a Jake White man.
So some people did agree with me after all in the White era…
21 Oct 2008, 10:21 am
#57 Umlungu:
Agreed Jake would add more benefit to SA rugby there than anywhere else. It is fairly obvious that political influences within SARU are not willing to offer him a position because he will not bow down to them and will not be intimidated by their constant bully boy tactics.
To have a world cup winning coach not coaching here is a sad indictment on our administrators and politicians.
You can a bet a pound to a pinch of **** that in NZ or Australia they would have found a role for a coach of his stature within their organisation for the upliftment of their game. It will never happen here though, because perks, bonuses, skin colour and ego are the most important considerations.
21 Oct 2008, 10:23 am
#49 the peanut gallery:
I fully agree with you peanut! JW did a great job with the Boks but his frequent “I’m available for A,B and C” public announcements are quite arrogant.
21 Oct 2008, 10:29 am
#70 Richie_7:
Jakes book didn’t reveal a single thing that wasn’t already in the public domain. In fact I found the book wholly disappointing. In fact I would think the lack of dirty laundry in his book would have endeared him to prospective employers.
21 Oct 2008, 10:29 am
#72 DEE DAH:
That is why you send him in as a team builder, nation builder, discoverer of talent and give him the guns to do it in Mandela Bay and best of all at the Nelson Mandela Metropolitan University, where SA Rugby used to have a Rugby Academy.
I would guess that you would see elite players and prospective talent wanting to come out of the School of Jake White.
It creates a structure, attracts revenue and injects intellectual rugby capital to where it is needed most.
Now that I think about it, it was supposed to have been done in January 2006 already.
21 Oct 2008, 10:33 am
#60 TASSIES:
“World Cup Winning” coach means nothing. That was 2007, and Jake White has just missed a full season of International rugby. I doubt that notch on his belt puts him above any of his peers when going for an interview, or he would have had a job ages ago
21 Oct 2008, 10:34 am
am very dissapointed in this.
dont mind if White takes any other job, but not coaching against Boks.
in fact, Mr White if you take this Lions job, you’ve just lost 1 big supporter of yours.
It is unnecessary to do this, am sure he has pots of cash. In fact, if he takes it, I hope PdV kicks his and the Lions ***.
21 Oct 2008, 10:34 am
#74 DEE DAH:
Well, you and I might see it that way, but potential employers don’t. They’re hardly falling over themselves to get his services
21 Oct 2008, 10:39 am
Jake White is now a world cup winning coach, to be honest any coach who coaches the Boks has a good chance of winning the WC, it really doesnt take much. There are only four top class teams in the world and its possible to avoid playing the other three until you get to the final.
Samoa, piss-poor England team, Tonga, USA, Fiji, Argentina, piss-poor England team, I would say 9/10, PDV or any decent coach can win those games with the Boks. Its not like a soccer WC, were in the last 16 you are likely to play Czech Republic, followed up by The Dutch in the quarters, Spain in the semis and Brazil in the final.
My biggest gripe with Jake, is that he did not evolve the game, he left no footprint in the game, our players are still as dumb as ever, our ball skills are still piss-poor
21 Oct 2008, 10:40 am
#77 cab: In pro rugby, Graham Henry and now Warren Gatland have both coached Wales against their native NZ. It’s what pro coaches do.
21 Oct 2008, 10:43 am
#80 TheTackler:
no, not for the springbok with all our baggage, he professed to worshipping the Bok and all its traditions, now it appears his willing to go up against that and tear it down at the drop of a hat, for what? The Boks made the man, he was a bladdy headmaster. No-one is bigger than Bok rugby, this guy should know that better than anyone.
sorry, i hope this is another one of those **** reports, cos i will be chanting 49-0, 49-0, 49-0…
21 Oct 2008, 10:47 am
#75 Umlungu: I doubt Jake’s ability go beyond being a consistant selector, I doubt he has an eye for talent or the intuition to develop skills.
A perfect South African coach, would have Harry Viljoen’s ideas, merge those with Carel Du Plessis’s intelligence, Christie’s discipline, Mallet’s tongue and Jake’s consistency in selection.
21 Oct 2008, 10:50 am
#75 Umlungu:
All fantastic reasons to have JW involved.
I will say it again. Politicians and administrators will not involve him because he will make decisions for rugby reasons and will not kow tow to their agenda’s. He must be the only coach in the world to get 100% on his performance review and get fired.
21 Oct 2008, 10:52 am
he perhaps deserves to be bitter, but he should have come out of it a stronger man, he ended up winning the greatest prize in world rugby and on top of that got to tell his whole story. thats enough.
SA rugby should have employed him, but they didn’t, get over it. But if this is what he is made of, good riddance, someone should offer to pack his bags.
Sounds like i was wrong about this one too. fool.
21 Oct 2008, 10:53 am
#78 Richie_7:
Fair enough, still think it is more to do with the fact the administrators and owners (NH) much prefer to deal with yes men. Why else do you think that Clive Woodward left rugby. The last two RWC winning coaches and nobody is falling over themselves to hire them. Maybe success is not the best career move. I have a feeling PDV will prove this.
21 Oct 2008, 10:56 am
actively looking, wanting to be involved in springbok rugby …
quits as springbok coach then says that …
mmmm.
21 Oct 2008, 10:57 am
#82 XhosaKid:
And MacIntosh’s eyes.
21 Oct 2008, 10:58 am
#80 TheTackler: Big difference Tackler.
Henry, Deans and Gatland coached Wales because they couldn’t get the NZ head coach’s job. It was the next best option for them. It would be interesting to see if Henry would coach another international team after coaching the ABs.
Jake White however has coached the Springboks, the ultimate rugby coaching role to any South African, and has led them to the holy grail in winning the world cup. Now he is thinking of turning on his former comrades in the biggest tour series there is. Good coach he may be, but his agenda IMO appears to me to driven by bitterness, not professionalism. IMO, He wants to strike a blow against PdV, SARU and South African rugby for what they did to him.
21 Oct 2008, 11:00 am
#84 cab: It’s always hard when someone you look up to disappoints. Don’t write him off yet. He may not get the Lions gig. However, it shouldn’t be forgotten that he is looking to get involved in the Lions setup.
21 Oct 2008, 11:02 am
#81 cab:
But you so earnestly supported Eddie van der Jones.
Same thing.
(I denounce the pair of them).
21 Oct 2008, 11:04 am
#89 stodders:
u know at the time when he was fired, i was also bitter, cos SA rugby had railroaded him, but he won out at the end of the day. a year later, how he could even consider the Lions is beyond me. I mean the sole purpose would be to beat the very team and traditions he professed to hold most dear.
Even if he does not get it, it seems clear he is actively looking for it.
This is the most dissapointing news I have received in 5 years, bladdy mercenary, man. am afraid ou doos skopskiet appears to have been quite right.
21 Oct 2008, 11:04 am
#88 stodders:
I really don’t see the issue. Rugby is a professional game and players/coaches today will always put that before patriosm. And having won the WC, the only real challenge White has now is seeing if he can beat the Champs
21 Oct 2008, 11:06 am
#90 cane?: Ah but cane, you know it to be so different when it is one of your own. Compare and contrast the emotions you felt when Deans lined up against the ABs this year.
To South Africans, Jones was a mercenary who did a great job for their team. To South Africans, White was the head coach and proud South African who led their team to glory. For him to become a mercenary too is hard for some to take, especially when it pits him against their beloved team, even though he is doing exactly what Jones did in helping out another country but his own.
21 Oct 2008, 11:06 am
#90 cane?:
thats cos Eddie came over to the Boks, i should care about the ozzies.
On a more serious note, Jones never went up against Australia.
White is reported to be actively seeking to tour with Lions whose sole intention will be to beat the boks. No bugger that, he can piss off too.
21 Oct 2008, 11:10 am
in fact, is there not a packing service we can get out to his pad? get schalk brits on the line. yoh, i really hope we wallop the living hell out of those lions now.
21 Oct 2008, 11:11 am
#86 badeesh:
Exactly badeesh, He didn’t even apply for his Old Job. Then was all indignant when another person was appointed.
And what exactly has Jake got to offer the Lions Team?
They already have a Head Coach.
Gatland will be the forwards Coach.
Backs Coach………….yeah right.
21 Oct 2008, 11:12 am
#92 Richie_7: Some will, some won’t. For some, the love of the game is more than the love of their country.
As an example – Ian McGeechan, the head coach of the Lions and former Scotland player and coach, was once offered the English coaching job before Clive Woodward. He could see the rich playing reserves that he had at his disposal – Johnson, Dallaglio, Hill etc and the immense funds available to him from the RFU to make the English team great. But he is a proud Scot. He declined the offer knowing that he was passing up a great opportunity. For him, there was no way he could coach the Auld enemy, no matter how tempting.
21 Oct 2008, 11:14 am
#96 cane?: cane, he will be there to provide insight into the Bok players psyche.
His mere presence may well unhinge several of the senior Bok players, because they will fear that he knows them better than they know themselves.
21 Oct 2008, 11:16 am
#93 stodders:
no you dont get it either.
SA is not the sort of country that you go mercenary against. We are not at that stage. White was given the chance of a lifetime, he was made by south african rugby. His whole ticket was based on in-depth knowledge of SA rugby of the traditions, of the blazer and all that ****. now where is all of that?
21 Oct 2008, 11:17 am
#97 stodders:
Fair enough. But when you’re Jake white and you’ve won a world cup, what more is there to achieve in rugby? Now you could say win a Lions tour, but we all know he wasn’t granted the oppurtunity.
So lets put this into perspective:
1. He coached the Boks
2. He won a trinations
3. He won an IRB Award
4. His team won an IRB award
5. 2 of his players won IRB awards for players of the year
The only two tradition2 in rugby White has not been part of is the Barbarians and the Lions. He’s doing the Barbarians thing at the end of the year, so naturally the only remaining one would be the Lions. Imagine being the first guy to coach (assitant coach) the Boks, the Barbarians, and the Lions??
21 Oct 2008, 11:17 am
#99 cab: I get it now. You really aren’t going to get over this one in a short while, are you?
21 Oct 2008, 11:19 am
#100 Richie_7: He could give something back to rugby. He doesn’t need to be a head coach. He can do development work, or help restore a faded province to former glory.
But Jake doesn’t want that. He wants revenge.
21 Oct 2008, 11:19 am
#93 stodders:
Sir Stodders,
I have always wished Deans well. (except against NZ, that is.)
He was never NZ’s head Coach, and who knows, maybe he never would have, or now never will be.
I respect his desire to Coach at the very highest level. That is natural.
21 Oct 2008, 11:21 am
#96 cane?:
no that was rubbish, they made him apply for his position in the middle of a world cup campaign, absolute rubbish, one of many attempts to push him out. Its precisely those sort of tricks that made him bitter, but i’m sorry, he is going to tear down any respect anyone before had of him with this move. if they lose, and i hope they do badly, everyone will extract their pound of flesh. the man has no idea, watch that international press turn as quickly as he did.
21 Oct 2008, 11:23 am
#101 stodders:
i just hope this report is incorrect, cos i see no reason why he is applying for this post. its the worst thing he could have done. for what? beat the Boks to prove he is a better coach and a loss. i hope we absolutely drill them.
if john smit is not fully committed to this task, get someone to captain who is.
21 Oct 2008, 11:24 am
#94 cab:
It is only “luck”, that Eddie did have to sit through a SA vs Oz Test Match.
I can imagine the camera’s zooming in on Eddie, counting his 30 pieces of silver.
21 Oct 2008, 11:26 am
#104 cab: Jake knew excactly when he’s job was going to be advertised, its like signing acontract that specifically says in 19months, I will be reassesed and the job will be advertised, come the 19th month, the job is advertised, I cry foul
21 Oct 2008, 11:26 am
#102 stodders:
No, Jake wants to coach the 3 of the 4 greatest positions in rugby. The last one being New Zealand rugby, but I doubt that let him get clsoe to that.
When you’ve coached a Wc winning side, who wants to take a step back? Would you?
21 Oct 2008, 11:29 am
#98 stodders:
And that Sir Stodders, is exactly why he shouldn’t be on his knees, begging for a job in the Lions set-up.
It just aint cricket is it.
21 Oct 2008, 11:31 am
#109 cane?:
definitely ain’t cricket.
bladdy hopeless fool.
21 Oct 2008, 11:33 am
#110 cab:
cab, I’ve never seen you this emotional before. Did you have an estrogen shot this morning?
21 Oct 2008, 11:33 am
#5 Wezwp: I have a sneaky suspicion that these ‘poodles’ under McGeechan/Edwards/Gatland can cause an unpleasant surprise. For White it may be a perfect opportunity to show the finger to SARU and politicians, being a part of these potentially winning ‘poodles’, but I doubt he is such a madman, of course, except if he is considering permanent emigration.
21 Oct 2008, 11:34 am
#100 Richie_7:
“”"” first guy to coach (assitant coach) the Boks, the Barbarians, and the Lions??
.
.
A bit like Judas Iscariat, ……..Scibe, Apostle, and then Traitor.
21 Oct 2008, 11:37 am
#111 Richie_7:
actually he can f’ck right off…i supported that idiot for 5 long years and now this.
i thought the one person that truly appreciated the honour and priviledge he recieved was White, how can one possibly reconcile it with this? i understood all the bluster after he resigned after the RWC, I was also upset that he was forced out, it was nonsense, but there’s a line. He can bugger off, i don’t want to see him involved with SA rugby again. Thats it from me.
21 Oct 2008, 11:38 am
#104 cab:
The one thing I admired about Jake……….his tenacity and thick skin.(okay that’s two thing’s,but hey..)
You are right the SARU treated him shabbily.
21 Oct 2008, 11:43 am
#88 stodders: If Graham Henry gets the AB flick, he’ll lose NO time in pinning down another coaching role anywhere on earth where the living’s good and the going is easy and the dollars are adequate. He understands the proper meaning of professionalism. But he’s getting on in years and he may already have enough to retire on.
21 Oct 2008, 11:45 am
#4 Wezwp: Don’t think he is being a traitor. He was keen on working here in SA as Director of Rugby. Its Sarfu again that is going to lose out by not giving Jake that job. Now he will be off. Just hope he does not come with the Lions tour here. Jake knows our rugby far too well. Sarfu messed up again. All our great coaches are now working overseas we are left with the scraps here.
21 Oct 2008, 11:48 am
#114 cab: cab its Sarfu not Jake. Jake wanted to stay here and take the Director of Rugby job which really needs to be filled by someone like him but Sarfu once again are just losing out by not giving him the job. They guy still needs to earn a living he has to look somewhere else if they are hell bent on not giving him the job here. Blame Sarfu
21 Oct 2008, 11:49 am
#116 TheTackler: You’re a t*t sometimes.
21 Oct 2008, 11:50 am
#118 Puma:
not good enough, takes two to tango.
if u were given the honour and priviledge of coaching the Boks, would you ever consider coaching the Lions on an SA tour?
nope, good riddance, get the bag packing service out there ASAP.
21 Oct 2008, 11:56 am
we dont need him, there’s so many talented players in SA right now.
we can crush those lions if the right guys are picked, anyone not keen on doing so or is ambivalent towards jake, must be put into retirement quicksmart, i should care about jake white or their individual careers, you get picked for the Boks and u stay loyal for life. That is what the bladdy code should be.
to think we hear about all this honorable stuff, load of **** man, take your professionalism and waai.
21 Oct 2008, 12:00 pm
#107 XhosaKid: Jake had a contract until the end of 2007 they advertised his job a week before the final remember??????
21 Oct 2008, 12:05 pm
#120 cab: I too feel angry about the whole thing. Its Sarfu we should show anger towards really. Jake has said many times he wants to be involved in SA rugby first and has said many times he would love the job of Director of Rugby in this country but it has fallen on deaf stupid ears if you ask me. Now we will lose Jake too. He has no option but to leave and find a coaching job abroad as so many here have. Now we are left with no really good coaches in this country at all. Except Plumtree and he is a kiwi. The mind just wonders at what Sarfu think letting our good coaches go just like that. Why??????????????????
21 Oct 2008, 12:08 pm
#121 cab:
Sadly cab, such is professionalism. With the rate European clubs are buying up players you can definitely expect to find young players leaving our shores and turning out for other countries in the future. Even boks choosing clubs over country
21 Oct 2008, 12:09 pm
#123 Puma:
there are other coaching jobs that do not involve taking the Boks head on.
Two in particular are no-no’s. England and above all the British Lions touring SA.
actually cannot believe i swallowed his BS for 5 years.
21 Oct 2008, 12:11 pm
#124 Richie_7: Its sad though. Wish the big bucks were here to keep them here. Saw Eddie Jones here this week and just wonder how many youngsters he has spoken too. I think NZ have the same problem as us but think we will lose more players than they will because of all the rubbish that goes on here all the time with selection.
21 Oct 2008, 12:14 pm
I would actually love for Jake to be involved with the Lions.
I hope there is substance to this as the Jake of 2008 is all about self-promotion.
He will recognise the players – in his mind “his” players – but they will have skills which he did not impart to them.
I call upon the powers that be to involve Jake in some way with the British Lions.
21 Oct 2008, 12:15 pm
#124 Richie_7:
sure i understand that, but what i dont understand is in a country like SA with jobs and professional contracts so utterly scarce and in a country trying desperately to unite, and by a man who professed to have this great and sacred hero-worship for the springbok traditions….how the hell can you decide to simply go coach the British Lions a year after winning the World Cup with South Africa, which was a very great thing for this country.
he has made enough money to retire for life or certainly more than he could ever dream of as a schoolteacher, he owes a massive amount to this country.
actually do these ppl have any sense of decency. any of them?
21 Oct 2008, 12:15 pm
#125 cab: He may not go. It could be Eddie speaking him into going. Jake really wanted to stay here and also remember he wanted to coach the Boks until after the Lions tour here but got so much **** from Sarfu here that he just never wanted to stay on after the WC. I do agree some jobs should never be touched by a Bok coach. It hurts. Also why was he not given the Director of Rugby job. He is the best at the moment for that job? If they had any brains they would give him that job almost any other country would have.
21 Oct 2008, 12:19 pm
u could’nt buy a scruple amongst them, probably think its a currency in asia.
21 Oct 2008, 12:21 pm
Reading through the comments above there seems to be quite a bit of both positive and negative sentiment as to whether Jake White is doing the correct or incorrect thing in wanting to coach an overseas side. Firstly his options here in S.A. are non existent, bear in mind and take cognisance of the fact that after having been the winning coach for the rugby world champions our rugby administration did not renew his contract, leaving him out of a job – a job I will say he did very well.
Because the administration has issues with him he joins “the unemployed” please note, by this I am not implying he has no work, just that his choice of career i.e. coaching rugby here in S.A. is put to an end. Why not go somewhere else where he is wanted and will be appreciated for his knowledge and skills? What better way to prove you are the best in the world at what you do than to coach a team that can beat the current world champions – the team that under his coaching, achieved the highest possible rugby accolade.
I am honestly of the opinion that Jake White is one of the world’s best, with Graham Henry from N.Z and Robby Deans from Aus. There are many people who do not like Jake for whatever reason, but you cannot take away his ability and knowledge when it comes to the game. I am still in awe as to how you (the administration) can get rid of the man who achieved as much as he did and has categorically stated that he wants to remain involved with S.A. rugby, only to be shunned and ignored by the same people who significantly benefited from his rein, again I make reference to the administration. A free trip to France, the honour and pride bestowed upon one who is associated with the best. i.e. The Rugby Springboks – one of South Africa’s most successful brands, in a short space of twelve years, they have brought the rugby world cup trophy twice to South Africa.
21 Oct 2008, 12:31 pm
#131 Tsunami a Shark Fan:
Uhm, great post. But with Australia and New Zealand already having beaten the World Champs he wouldn’t be the first or last, so not really an achievement of grand proportions.
Perhaps it’s more a tussle between him and PdV??
21 Oct 2008, 12:38 pm
#131 Tsunami a Shark Fan: Great post. Well written. I agree there. Just cannot understand why they don’t give Jake the Director of Rugby job. I too put Jake up there as the best coach in the world with R. Deans and G. Henry. Why we never kept him after the world cup the mind wonders really. Now he has said he wants to stay here and do the Director of Rugby job but nothing has come of it. To lose a great rugby brain like that to the UK is dreadful really. I don’t blame him if he leaves, it hurts but he has stated his first choice is here but they are not giving him the job he has openly said he wants. Who else can do that job? Who are they going to give it too now? I lay this blame on sarfu we could still have had him here working with our own rugby instead of their stupidness we will lose him.
21 Oct 2008, 12:40 pm
if he joins them we are stuffed, but good on him
Perhaps a lions loss is what we need to get Plumtree or Rassie in the mix to try and salvage our 2011 ambitions
21 Oct 2008, 12:43 pm
I will be very surprised if this happens, McGeechan is a Lion through and through and I think the closest Jake would get would be as a consultant. Then again Eddie Jones working with the Boks last year broke a few moulds.
I watched some of his team talks on DVD before the tests in 97 – Jeez, makes your hair stand on end the amount of passion and belief this guy has in the Lions cause.
21 Oct 2008, 12:45 pm
I say again: I would welcome Jake’s involvement with the British Lions.
I hope and pray for his fans’ sake that he will get that opportunity.
21 Oct 2008, 12:45 pm
#135 foot-in-touch:
Yeah, some pretty descriptive language from Martin Johnson too on what they should do to the Boks, and then to the Bok Supporters
21 Oct 2008, 12:46 pm
If he joins them, the Boks will still beat them.
Too much talent in SA at the moment. Its one of those cycles, we could have mickey mouse in charge it would make no difference.
Stupidest move this man has ever made, the irish chirp was positively tame, the british press will pick him clean, yet another saffa mercenary and his coaching rep will be in tatters too.
Go for it Peter de Villiers.
21 Oct 2008, 12:47 pm
#134 Chris D: Yes, I think if he is going there we could well land up losing big time. He knows our rugby too well. If we lose big like you say then just maybe we could get a new coach before the 3N next year. They will have to start to look outside this country no great coach left here. Don’t think Meyer will hurry back here either. Rassie is a great thinker of the game but still has a long way to go to being a great coach. I would just look at Plumtree. Don’t think he will want all the rubbish that goes on with being the Bok coach. Eddie said he would love it but he has a contract in NH until end of 2011. Maybe senior players will take the game into their own hands and play like they know how too. No one there to show them at this stage.
21 Oct 2008, 12:48 pm
#132 Richie_7: I actually think PDV will give Jake a reality check, I dare Jake to take any job, so that he can come head to head with PDV and his boks
21 Oct 2008, 12:50 pm
#137 Richie_7:
Yeah, plenty of both were required methinks. The choice of Lions captain will be key. They will need a Johnson character, not a BOD character.
21 Oct 2008, 12:53 pm
#138 cab: Cab we could hardly win any of our games here in the 3N this year with PdV in charge and thats with our great players that are getting wasted with his stupid gameplan. He has to go back to structure like he did at Ellis Park. Then again we cant say much for that big win as the Aussies were not really in the game. Mind was thinking of the final against the AB’s. With our great talent we had this year we should have won all of our 3N games. That was the weakest AB side we have ever faced and they thrashed us at Newlands first time we have a 0 at home in the history of the Boks. A very young and not so good Aussie side beat us for the first time in 10 years on SA soil. PdV better hurry up quick if he wants to win this very talented players he has. Maybe the senior players will take control and play it their way which is far better than PdV has in mind at the moment. Maybe PdV should take notice of how the Sharks are playing and get some advise from Plum. Maybe thats what he needs to do otherwise we are going to get thrashed next year talented players and all if we stick to PdV gameplan of just play whats infront of you. It just does not work like that. We need a world class coach with our talented players. Wish we got R. Deans before Oz did.
21 Oct 2008, 12:58 pm
#133 Puma: I personally dont think Jake is such a great coach, honestly, I would pick any of these guys ahead of him Clive Woodward, John Mitchell, Graham Henry, Robbie Deans and David Nacifora.
Jake failed to add any dynamism or intelligence to our players. If Schalk was coached by any of these guys, He would have been atleast 4 times smarter than he currently is.
21 Oct 2008, 12:58 pm
#142 Puma:
I’d rather lose then support a two-faced sell-out.
Not going to happen either, too good a team.
PdV is on a steep learning curve, but first time we’ve beaten NZ away in 10 years and biggest hiding of Oz ever. I’m afraid white’s ego has taken over, he is not bigger than Bok rugby, the reason i supported him cos i thought he realised that above all else. Bladdy hyprocrite. the piece de resistance must be offering to pack Schalk Brits bags when he threatened a move overseas, absolutely diabolical.
21 Oct 2008, 13:00 pm
#142 Puma:
Jake is a better communicator/marketer than PdV. No doubt there.
But not necessarily a better coach. Consider this:
a. Jake could never win in NZ; his 3N record on par with PdV’s 1st season
b. PdV’s Boks beat the Aussies 53-8 with Deans there
You may want to revisit your belief that only white males can coach the game of rugby.
21 Oct 2008, 13:03 pm
just goes to show, skopskiet seems to have been spot on about his character all along.
21 Oct 2008, 13:06 pm
#139 Puma: I think that is an insult to what Peter De Villiers is trying to achieve with the boks. He has made the boks think, he has empowered them to entertain on their way to victory, the reason so many people in SA love the AB, its not that they always win but they always entertain, sport is about entertainment
21 Oct 2008, 13:38 pm
#144 cab: It was with Jakes team that we won in the away leg of the 3N. I think if Jake was there we would have won both games. Also be honest it was because of a brilliant individual try by Ricky that we won in Dunedin. Everyone knows that. But a win is fantastic know way you look at it. The last time we beat Oz by such a huge margin was with Carel Du Plessis and he got fired straight after because he lost as much as PdV had earlier we also lost a Lions tour with him so that last game counted for nothing as 3N then had also been won but Carel got fired. What happens to PdV? He gets to stay after losing to 0 at home for the very first time in Bok history to the AB’s Yes PdV is on a learning curve but lets hope he learns very quick. Jake was too after he got the job in 2004 and we won the 3N, best rugby player of the year, best coach of the year, best team of the year award too that was his first year and then we won the wc cup with him and all those awards again. Read post. 131 a well written post and it is very true. Not sure how we will go with PdV maybe he will prove me wrong. I supported him this year and he brought us nothing really. That 53-8 was against Oz that had some players left out too and were just thinking of the final. Cant count that win as anything really. I still have said I will support PdV as what else must we do he is our coach and will be no matter what until the next world cup. So lets see how he goes next year not against the NH teams which we should really beat good and solid. Losing Jake is a big loss. Just like we have lost most of our business brains in everything here. Teachers, nurses, doctors you name it the best have left SA already. Just hope it stops soon but cant see that happening. Its sad but thats what is happening.
21 Oct 2008, 13:43 pm
#148 Puma: Maybe, maybe not.
Jake White’s teams were renowned for their conservatism and structure. What won the game for the Boks in Dunedin was a moment of genius. Would a Jake white coached Januarie have attempted it? Who knows.
What we do know is that Jake White failed to win in NZ in 4 years. PdV managed to do it in 1. The team that won in Dunedin was PdV’s team. The players may have been the same, but the coach wasn’t.
21 Oct 2008, 13:45 pm
#145 Sheriff: I don’t believe that only white males can coach the Boks. At the moment there is no great coach here white/black or coloured. Our best have left sorry to say this but they are white males. Meyer would have won most of the 3N games this year. He would never had said just play whats in front of you!!!!! Anyway time will tell just how good PdV will be. With the talent he has he should be winning almost all the games the Boks play. Anyway I do support thim I have no choice. I support the Boks and will support our coach. There is a saying you learn by your mistakes and I hope PdV will then maybe we will see a great game of rugby being played. About that win in NZ and the 53-8 read my post 144 have mentioned it there.
21 Oct 2008, 13:49 pm
#149 stodders: Stodders up until that final moment we were losing. It was a individual try by Ricky that got us that win. It could have gone either way. If we won by a bigger margin yest I would say we won well there. We almost won twice with Jake there. We also lost to 0 at home for the first time in Bok history against the AB’s. Not nice feeling let me tell you. PdV could do well on eoyt and I for one am hoping he does as I really don’t want our Boks to sink back to where they were 5 years ago. I will support PdV have to he is our coach after all and I think he will be there until end of the next world cup.
21 Oct 2008, 13:55 pm
#147 XhosaKid: No insults to him at all. If you see it like that its your view. You say he has made them think?????? What to play like individuals????? This is a team sport of 15 and you have to play as a team otherwise they will lose more than win. These players are such great players they should be winnine almost all of their games. Should have won all our games agains the Ab’s this year that was the weakest Ab’s side ever and also a very young and not so good Aussie side we should have beaten them in all 3N games but never. Only when it never counted much.
21 Oct 2008, 13:56 pm
#148 Puma: You are being disingenuous, what happened to Jake White in his EOYT in that very same year ( 2004), by saying what you have just said, you are setting PDV up, if he wins well, he is screwed if he loses he is till screwed. Jake got all those nominations in 2004 from a 69% winning record, so far PDV is sitting on 60% winning record.
“Structure” or “no structure” **** is what all these “journos” write, I saw players staying on their feet, off-loading instead of killing momentum by going to ground with the ball, keeping opponents guessing of whats next and more importantly, our scrum finally dominating
21 Oct 2008, 13:58 pm
Jake must not be alowed to be involved in rugby in this country again. He cannot unite. He was not big enough to get over his differences with certain players.He is going to divide the Boks if he get involved in any capacity.
Get a Bok as Director of Coaching.
21 Oct 2008, 13:59 pm
I hope Jake get’s the Lions job and the Lions get a clean sweep. South Africans are the most and ungrateful and judgemental people on the planet. The guy went up against all odds, got us a World Cup. Now he’s been ostracised by SA rugby and, it seems, most of the SA rugby public is deemimg him a traitor and desperate.
I think a few of you need some perspective. Anyone who has to deal with old school SA mentality at that level will probably need more than a year break. He gifted us a World Cup and a clean record throughout the World cup as well putting us at the number 1 ranking.
The only desperate people are the one’s trying to hold on to a picture of an antelope. RSA needs to sart evolving instead of clinging on to pictures that remind them some obscure past. SA rugby’s always been a boys club for a selected few. While I don’t feel as strongly as Watson, I do think he has point.
Jake’s evolving, so should a few of you. The guy’s a National hero.
good ridance to the Bok, the games bigger than a logo, it’s also bigger than all of us and definately bigger than SA.
by, ex South African
21 Oct 2008, 13:59 pm
#151 Puma: It was JPP individual tackle on the Fijian in the quarters that won Jake the WC, do you think its a fair statement for me to say that?
21 Oct 2008, 14:02 pm
White was a very good coach. He is logical, professional and very analytical. JW won a 3N with his first year in charge when ranked 6 in the world, its better than anyone else has done before or after. He had a 66% win record and won the biggest of all. He moulded and shaped a very powerful team that perhaps did not have the depth of NZ, but the first XV if all fit, like for RWC, could have beaten anyone in the world imo.
This is not about White’s abilities, its about his character. Its about consistency. Its about a coach who waxed on about all these bok traditions and how in awe of it he was and how he wanted to reintroduce that, remember all that **** we were fed? about a coach who told players to get stuffed when they tried to strong-arm him in the press.
I do not know what sort of coach PdV, but i would rather have anyone coaching the boks right now then this two-faced dissapointment. pack your bladdy bags and go. just watch what happens.
21 Oct 2008, 14:03 pm
#156 XhosaKid: Don’t think it was because of that tackle we won the quarters. Yes it made it a lot easier for us and that was a great, great tackle JPP made. It was John Smit that spoke to the team that turned the whole game around. We scored two tries after that remember. I just remember players saying after, it was after John spoke to us that we got going to play the way we should have done. They were playing running rugby and had fallen in the trap of the Fijians as they love to play rugby like that. We went back to kicking into the corner getting our lineout and after we made two tries.
21 Oct 2008, 14:04 pm
#150 Puma:
Puma
All your positive assumptions are in favour of the White coach(es) and negative ones/concerns go PdV’s way.
I am on record to say that if PdV does not deliver then he needs to do the honourable thing.
I’m not implying that you’re a racist but just wanted to offer a different view. Remain open minded and dont ignore the facts.
21 Oct 2008, 14:06 pm
#155 nanfeiren:
Ironically the thing you lack the most is “perspective”
21 Oct 2008, 14:08 pm
#151 Puma: Puma,
Don’t you think it is churlish to dismiss the achievement by continually saying that up until Januaries’s try the Boks were losing? for the Boks to be in the position to win the match with a moment of genius is the key thing IMO.
Jake’s Boks lost by a gnats head in 2005. When Mealamu scored, there was still just enough time for the Boks to hit back, but sadly for them on that day, it was not to be. Like Dunedin in 2008, it could have gone either way. Unlike 2008, the Boks were in fact leading and couldn’t keep the ABs out.
As for losing to the ABs at home to 0, it was a bad day for Bok rugby. But Jake White had his fair share of rubbish results too. What about the dark day when the Wallabies won 49-0? The Boks looked equally as clueless and devoid of passion as they did in Cape Town this year. Not to mention a hammering at the hands of the ABs in Pretoria.
Personally, it seems to suit your agenda to blame it all on PdV. Did you do the same thing to White in 2006 after the Wallaby loss?
PdV may well surprise you and your fellow cynicists on the EOYT. Jake White had a fair number of second chances himself. Give PdV a chance at least. If he fails, you and your fellow Bok supporters can crucify him for his failure, but I hope only in terms of his coaching record, which at the moment stands up to White’s IMO. PdV hasn’t had the chance of coaching the Boks at a world cup yet.
One last thought. Maybe, just maybe, the Boks might not be as good a team as some on here think they should be. Seems to me that there are alot of talented individuals available, but some of those players do not compliment others. White struggled with this during his tenure too. He hit the jackpot right at the end of his tenure, but it took him 3 years after this initial 3N success to find it again on a consistent basis.
21 Oct 2008, 14:11 pm
I’d be quite happy getting rid of the bok, get rid of transformation too, get rid of White, Watson, Komphela and every other past and present Bok player who thinks he is bigger than the game and wants to hold it hostage. Get rid of the entire bangshoot. you can evolve till the f’cking cows come home, but there is also something that money cant buy, its called loyaltly. Loyalty to a country thats hoisted you on top of their shoulders and made you everything you are.
That is a massive priviledge, not a right.
21 Oct 2008, 14:16 pm
#153 XhosaKid: Jake beat the big guns here. NZ and OZ in the 3N. PdV has won mostly against very weak teams. Give it a break now, you know that for a fact. Winning against Italy and not even their full strength team winning against a under strength Wales team call that great winning??????????????????????? Jeez man cant count those wins. Sharks would have beaten those teams.
21 Oct 2008, 14:24 pm
#161 stodders: Jake had a lot of injuries in 2006. He still never had Steyn in the team no Butch until he got flown to NZ. Losing to 0 at home is worse let me tell you. It hurts much more than losing to 0 away. Of course I will give PdV my support. Time will tell just how our team will do under him. Maybe next year this time we have the Lions tour won and the 3N cup back here in SA. Who knows. We will see how the team goes end of year. Then again I hardly ever rate them when they play there as most of the times we take a under strength team in the past few years and I think PdV may too he said he was taking youngsters. Then again after all the losing so much this year he just may want to take his best team to make amends. I do support PdV he is our coach. We will judge him after next years big games against the Lions and 3N.
21 Oct 2008, 14:24 pm
#163 Puma: Jake won two games in that 3N, both at home. He also won the WC against, Samoa, Fiji, USA, Argentina and a kak English team, is that a fair statement? all of these ranked far below the Boks
21 Oct 2008, 14:24 pm
#162 cab: Where is my teary smiley when i need it! Such passion. Great post!
21 Oct 2008, 14:29 pm
#164 Puma:
Wasn’t the world cup win a break from the norm though?
The Boks have consistently won around 60% since re-admission against all comers, and that % drops when you compare their success against the other nations that make up the big 5 (England, France, Oz and NZ) over that time period.
There have been limited periods of success for the Boks since 1992, with 2 world cups and 2 3N titles being the highlights. But, the Boks were consistent last year when compared to their historical performances since re-admission.
Don’t you think?
21 Oct 2008, 14:33 pm
#91 cab:
” Even if he does not get it, it seems clear he is actively looking for it.
This is the most dissapointing news I have received in 5 years, bladdy mercenary, man. am afraid ou doos skopskiet appears to have been quite right.”
Damn, Cab you can be so stunningly honest even when it goes 150% against you. These words of yours above must scarily stunning in its candour to the constant liars on this site who always go the way the prevailing wind blows.
Admirable stuff man, really admirable.
But you got me into trouble on Sat. with the yobos when you said I am famous. And you know I really am not. I am just a very hard working, down to earth, normal, average Joe Citizen.
21 Oct 2008, 14:34 pm
#167 stodders: Yes agree there sort off. Remember under Mallett we were very consistent 17 wins in a row that time. But after that until Jake came we just went downhill quick. It just gets to me stodders with the huge talent that is playing here at the moment we should be winning more than losing.
Remember Mallett always took his best to NH and won more there than any other coach. As Jake mostly took a under strength team come eoyt to NH. I say select your best team always.
21 Oct 2008, 14:35 pm
#168 ET:
should read ‘must be scarily……’
21 Oct 2008, 14:39 pm
#162 cab: I wonder how NZ will feel if OZ win the next world cup with R. Deans as their coach? I also say loyalty should always come first. But where to for Jake here? Sarfu wont give him a rugby job. Should he do a Meyer and just go coach a club over there? Maybe that would be better for all of us here I think. He has not got the job yet with the Lions. He may get it he may not. If he does then we just have to play a game he really cant win against. We have the best players available to us here. Why cant we beat the best in the world. We should be doing so on a much regular basis. Maybe even if Jake is with the Lions or England team we can still beat them and we should.
21 Oct 2008, 14:40 pm
#162 cab:
Cab I have always thought and even said here that JW was to me the most vindictive coach that I have ever been exposed to in decades of exposure to very many codes of sport. And that is where I lost all repect for him after that first 3N series.
21 Oct 2008, 14:41 pm
#168 ET:
no if i’m wrong what must i say? what is slightly worrying for me is that i supported this *** for so long. perhaps i should watch more and talk less, since clearly have no clue what is going on.
21 Oct 2008, 14:48 pm
#148 Puma: Very nice, you have expressed yourself perfectly. We as South African’s are extremely lucky in that we have probably the best base of players to choose from. The South African rugby player has something very special and something that cannot be taught – “gees.” In English the word might be passion, but this does not quite hit the nail on the head. And please, I am in no way saying other rugby playing nations do not share this ”energy.” In addition to this they have tremendous pride in being chosen as a Springbok i.e. to play and represent their country. This goes way beyond the emblem itself, surpasses colour, race and creed ask any player who has been gifted and talented enough to have been able to obtain this honour, now add to that the fact that they are the “best” in the world, and not only have we done this once but twice. Take that same player with all his “gees” and you will end up with an exceptional rugby player, multiply that by fifteen and you have a phenomenal team, but if the coaching structure is not there and sorry to use this weak analogy – you will end up with something comparable to the Titanic. The biggest and the best but still with a weakness – in this case a small iceberg (in comparison) .
Getting back to our brilliant team of Rugby players, arguably the best in the world (excuse the pun), no I mean the actual individuals, unless they have the correct coaching, direction and leadership (I do not mean captain) they will not be able to reach the position they have.
Love him, or hate him, Jake White took the greatest team on earth and turned them into “The World Champions” an outstanding achievement. What would really be a good yardstick to use, enabling us as enthusiastic rugby supporters to judge how good a coach he is, is to give him another team of great players let us say The British Lion’s and see how they fare against the mighty Springboks.
This will be the test to see how competent our current coach is against the one who has already proven himself. Take into consideration that PDV has been given the greatest team on earth. (Please note my comments are not meant to alienate supporters of the other great rugby playing nations around the world.)
21 Oct 2008, 14:49 pm
#171 Puma:
Puma, to be frank i dont give a damn what happens to Jake White from here.
How could anyone support a coach that is going to purposefully take on their own country?
Explain to me how this is in the interests of SA rugby and not JW?
21 Oct 2008, 14:50 pm
Wh y don’t White invite Watson to play for Baabas
21 Oct 2008, 14:51 pm
in fact, he can take that golden trinket with him, about as cheap as he is.
21 Oct 2008, 14:52 pm
ddv won a test in dunedin not white.
21 Oct 2008, 14:55 pm
#173 cab:
No, don’t pain yourself over this unnecessarily so. You and your make-up is not the problem. But JW has a personality problem which leaves him so utterly self-absorbed in Jake White only and 100% of the time.
Have some good French or S.A. wine and relax and don’t muse about it.
21 Oct 2008, 14:57 pm
#174 Tsunami a Shark Fan: Well written. Once again your post is the best here. Agree 100% I have been saying all along that we have the best players right here available to us but really don’t think we have the best coach and I mean that in not a nasty way. Its just that with these players available to him we could have and should have won all our games this year against a very average AB’s side and a very young and not so good Aussie side. We should have beaten them each and everytime we played them. Its the gameplan they had to play. I think thats what cost us this year. Most will agree a few wont but thats fine thats what this blog is all about. Debates. Everyone has their own view.
21 Oct 2008, 14:59 pm
#179 ET:
it is a worry tho cos these guys are supported, i hated the old bunch, but thought this was a different coach, a normal guy who was in awe of the bok, rugby mad and would stick to his principles and could not be bought off, and that i idiotically believed made him different…my my my, just shows how wrong one can be.
21 Oct 2008, 15:02 pm
#175 cab: JW came out and said he wanted to be the Director or Rugby … SA Rugby gave him no response so what do you expect him to do? He is a pro and loves coaching and being involved in rugby at that LEVEL.
So don’t blame him to want to improve himself, Barbarians and the Lions have loads of history and it is considered an HONOR to be involved with either.
21 Oct 2008, 15:04 pm
#182 canafunk:
i expect him NOT to coach the Lions a year after winning RWC with the BOKS!!
the man is a cretin.
why not coach the baabaas or the azzuri.
21 Oct 2008, 15:06 pm
#174 Tsunami a Shark Fan: May I ask, if South Africa has the best talents, why they have won just 2 Tri Nations out of 13 (when New Zealand have won 9) and just one single Super 12/14 title out of 13 (when NZ teams have won 10) – which ironically was in the year when NZ pulled out their best 22 players for half-season? Is this always wrong coaches/wrong captains/wrong selections/wrong tactics etc. etc. fault?
And I have my utmost respect to the great achievements of South African rugby and their proud traditions. But I have suspicion that WC triumph has a bit blinded many folks. Just like win in Dunedin – once in a decade, may I add. When one reads stats on how New Zealand almost every year beat South Africa in their own backyard, especially this year – an relatively average team (by NZ standards) full of rookies nilling the almost full strenght world champions in their turf – one should really doubt that indeed SA have the best pool of talent in the world.
21 Oct 2008, 15:10 pm
#181 cab:
Jake as a prof coach should be able to coach anywhere in the world without being called a traitor.
What I detest about him at the moment is his approach. It is sad to see a guy who I defended quite strongly in the not so distant past, become so arrogant. The only conclusion is that I was at fault – I chose not to see.
He portrayed himself as victim. “Jeez, this, jeez that” I dont doubt his passion for rugby but I think he overestimate his own significance by at least 60 – 70%
21 Oct 2008, 15:13 pm
#181 cab:Thats life. If you apply for a job and really want it and don’t get it you go somewhere else. SA rugby will be the biggest loser for not giving him that job that he wanted. Also even if White is not in the set up of the Lions next year we may still have a hard time beating them if we played like we did this year. With such great rugby players we should have won every game but never came last in 3N against very average 3N sides this year. Next year we will play a much smarter team with two very, very great coaches. In Gatland and McGeechan. That McGeechan is a very smart thinker of the game. So if we lost to a average 3N teams this year we just may lose to the Lions next year if we play the same gameplan. And that is without Jake there. We will be the only SH team then to lose to them in the past few years. As Oz beat them and NZ beat them in the past few years. So really hope we can play smart this time like a team and not individuals. That is maybe what we should now be talking about how to beat those Lions. Jake wanted to stay here but got snubbed. Give him a break he has made us proud. Does he have to get on his knees to beg for that job as he said his first choice would always to stay here but they are just not even given him a thought.
21 Oct 2008, 15:14 pm
#185 Sheriff:
Yes, i am wondering exactly the same thing, which is whether we choose (or hoped) to see something that was not actually there. alternatively, perhaps he started off level-headed and its all distorted him.
i cannot believe he would actually coach the Lions, its beyond me.
Why not coach the Gauteng Lions or one of the sides that are not the bok rivals?
21 Oct 2008, 15:17 pm
#186 Puma:
Sorry Puma, i dont give a damn whats happens to Jake White.
I was planning my trip down to SA for the Lions tour and will be shouting 49-0.
21 Oct 2008, 15:21 pm
#184 Nils: We do have the best pool of talented players available to us. We don’t have a great coach like NZ does. Agree had a very average team this year and with a decent Bok coach we should have beaten your team but never. Until readmission in 1992 if you look back the Boks won tour in NZ and probably had the edge over NZ then on the number of wins. It was only after we were out in the cold for many years that your team came here and won a tour finally in 1996 after trying for about 70 years. Until then we were your strongest rival. Now not so anymore. But to be honest with these players we have now we should once again be your biggest rival. We should never ever have lost to your very average team this year but we did. Makes me and a lot think who was at fault.
21 Oct 2008, 15:23 pm
#188 cab: Where are you living at the moment mate? We all should stand together on this. Never mind about Jake if he is with the other team it will hurt me too like hell really. We just have to hope our team gets good coaching as with these talented players we should beat any team but not very sure if we will with the coaches we have at the moment. They could prove me wrong and I for one want them too as I want our Boks winning more than losing again.
21 Oct 2008, 15:26 pm
#188 cab: Cab just be pleased he is not coaching the England side. If he did they could win the next world cup. That would be even worse to handle. For me anyway.
21 Oct 2008, 15:26 pm
#189 Puma: The players perhaps? No, that would be too easy.
21 Oct 2008, 15:27 pm
#187 cab:
Look I think 2004 was his best year. What counted in his favour was Straeuli’s pathetic run with the Boks.
So he inherited them at a low.
But he had great ideas and soon connected with the Eng and Afr fans being so well-spoken. He had the passion, the knowledge and desire to succeed. But he ran out of ideas. Gert Smal and Allister Coetzee not the smartest either.
How often did you see those 2 handle the media? They did, but very very seldom. It was all about Jake. 2006 and 2007 were tough years. Luckily Rassie left the setup (good long term choice) and EJ came into the mix. If he did not Jake would have been exposed big time. Eddie brought technical know-how, a confidence and above all – knowledge of Aus and NZ. That gave them the edge. The Boks had access to all that.
People think 2008 would have been better with him there. No not at all. We just need to look to 2006-2007. It would have been more of the same.
And what happens in 2008? He gets a chance to coach the Barbarians and who does he involve? This is not a conspiracy theory but fact.
Jake should get back to basics.
21 Oct 2008, 15:29 pm
#190 Puma: Tell me, what is wrong with the coaches?
PdV, Gold, Muir. They aren’t a bad bunch of coaches.
JW didn’t become a world cup winning coach until Eddie Jones arrived on the scene to help fill in the gaps in his coaching make up. That’s not to say he isn’t a good coach, but Jones was the muse needed to inspire him and take him out of his comfort zone.
21 Oct 2008, 15:29 pm
#190 Puma:
hold on a second, i was never picked to represent and lead my country. that is a mamoth honour, especially for a white face in south africa. I never clung to the traditions of the bok for dear life when my coaching life hung in the balance only to toss it all away when at the top. SARU might have treated him poorly, but there were a hell of a lot of south africans who had faith in him and supported him when no-one else did. They did so, not cos he was Jake White, but because we thought (or I did) that he put the team first above all else, most especially Jake White. I would never have supported this snake.
21 Oct 2008, 15:30 pm
#193 Sheriff: Very true. Some find the facts hard to take.
21 Oct 2008, 15:31 pm
#191 Puma:
Don’t even mention that, thats when Agent Suzie is called out of retirement.
21 Oct 2008, 15:32 pm
#197 cab:
Agent Suzie and Wayne Barnes should do it.
21 Oct 2008, 15:34 pm
#192 stodders: No stodders don’t think so. They were playing for themselves all of them playing like individuals. We never play our rugga like that. Never should again ever. Its a team sport. There was not structure there either. We were trying to run it from our own try line so many, many times. Never saw us doing that much in the past. Makes me just wonder a little there. Maybe we will come home after beating all the NH teams and once we beat the Lions and our 3N partners next year I will feel different. Time will tell.
21 Oct 2008, 15:35 pm
#119 stodders:
naah
he’s one … always!
21 Oct 2008, 15:35 pm
if i knew he was going to do this with the lions, i would have been protesting at the palace gates with oom frik du preez to get the clown removed.
21 Oct 2008, 15:36 pm
i actually could spit bricks, think am going to have to take the day off.
21 Oct 2008, 15:38 pm
#202 cab: Take the earlier advice of a blogger – sit back, crack open a bottle or two of the finest burgundy, and breathe!
21 Oct 2008, 15:38 pm
#194 stodders: I used to rate Muir but have to say not so much anymore. Not after our S14 this year at the Sharks. Look how well Plum is doing with the same team they look so different. Actually they look better than the Boks did this year!! Not being nasty there its a fact. The play structure and the basics well. Then the running rugby can come and the tries come easy too. Maybe all 3 cocahes should take a look at the final being played this weekend and see where they are going wrong. Gold!!!!!!!!!!!! not so sure about him.
21 Oct 2008, 15:40 pm
piss willy little mediocre **** coach who thinks the sun shines out his a-hole just because he successfully (just, mind you) managed to dispose of Samoa, USA, Tonga, Fiji, Argentina and England twice, that is 6th, 7th, 11th, 12th, 13th and 19h seeded teams, please any SA coach that could not achieve this much would be a diabolical disgrace, yet this fool is proclaimed the bees knees of rugby coaching, .. my lily white ***.
Now because SARU have no position for the prima donna he wants to show a thing or two, well pity its not going to be him as coach, thats McGeechans job, so Jake the snake will be advising behind the scenes, and maybe even a little bit of undermining tactics amongst his old boys club wouldn’t go amiss.
Pity he weren’t head coach cause then it would be a really great opportunity to see who a real coach is and who isn’t.
21 Oct 2008, 15:42 pm
#189 Puma: I agree, South Africa have many talented guys and should always be among the very best. And before 1992 they were yardstick.
Yes, 70 years of trying sound huge but the problem is that during these 70 years there were, as far as I know, six New Zealand tours in South Africa (1928, 1949, 1960, 1970, 1976 and unofficial 1986). Anyway, I fully acknowledge the great power of the Springboks.
But even apart from national level – take Super 14. Apart from 2007 (when you know what Henry did to NZ provincial teams), why SA teams were usually underperforming? Currie cup champions Cheetahs every season were somewhere at the bottom, Lions – well, despite some great results, too. Stormers – brilliant team – somewhere in the middle. Bulls, Sharks – either hot, or stone cold. Hardly PdV fault. I do not know, suerly SA teams have great potential but why usually NZ/Aus team wins in the SA are hardly sensational but SA team wins in Aus/NZ usually come as a surprise?
21 Oct 2008, 15:43 pm
#197 cab: That was so funny. Had a really good laugh. Good one.
#202 cab: Stay calm. lol.
21 Oct 2008, 15:43 pm
#205 mayhem:
The cup is the cup buddy…can’t argue with that.
21 Oct 2008, 15:51 pm
#206 Nils: Agree there. Not very sure why that is, why we lose now more than we should be winning. We really do have the players. Maybe better coaching in your countries or better skills. Also our Provinces play a little different to each other. In NZ I think they all play the same from day one in each part of the country there. So consistency to how your whole country play could also well be the fact there. Not very sure. Just a little thought of mine. Maybe it will turn around again. Who knows. I miss those tours though. Were the best. To see 3 tests against the AB’s and mid week games for me was the best. Thats when you really test your side. Not just a quick game then back home again. Maybe that will all come back. Wishful thinking!!! Thats why I am looking so forward to the Lions tour next year here.
21 Oct 2008, 15:54 pm
#205 mayhem:
you are right ou doos, not so insane after all, just stop talking about quarks.
21 Oct 2008, 15:58 pm
#209 Puma: Yeah, Lions tour should be fun. And, luckily, SA will play NZ twice at home next year. Although, I’m ABs supporter, I much more like to watch both teams playing in South Africa in as ‘hostile environment’ as possible.
21 Oct 2008, 15:59 pm
#36 PissAnt: Meyer has signed 1 Bulls player who wasn’t even in the starting line-up.
21 Oct 2008, 16:00 pm
#210 cab: Cab you never said where you were living at the moment. I take it the UK? Winter coming up then. Not very good weather here either in Durbs. Lots of rain at the moment. Anyway never mind what happens next year you must come down for the Lions tour. Its a very special tour only comes around every 6 years or so. The vibe will be huge here. Come and enjoy the atmosphere and hoping a good rugby from both sides especially our Boks.
21 Oct 2008, 16:02 pm
#79 XhosaKid: Australia and France couldn’t beat a ‘piss-poor England’ team, Jake did it twice.
21 Oct 2008, 16:05 pm
#211 Nils: hahahaha. You know for me there will never ever be better rugby to watch than the Boks and All Blacks. At home here in SA is the best. Huge stadiums and the vibe when we play each other here is thevery best. Also the weather that time of year is dry and full sun good for running rugby. Two games here next year great. Damn your team is lucky. Got the great Ellis Park escape!! lol. Playing us in Bloem and Durban. Should have been at Ellis Park. Now there is hostile environment there for sure. So would it be at Loftus. Never mind looking forward to both games. Hope we are still called the Boks next year!!!!
21 Oct 2008, 16:05 pm
#214 Big Hit: Well said Big Hit.
21 Oct 2008, 16:05 pm
#213 Puma:
paris, poor weather here too. you probably right just to enjoy the rugby, but he must really dissapear now. bladdy fool. should be a great tour, then we need to start planing for NZ in 2011, that will be great, imagine the pressure there?
21 Oct 2008, 16:13 pm
#205 mayhem: I seriously doubt Jake will be hired by the Lions, McGeechan has already said its unlikely.
However, things haven’t been going well for McGeechan recently, maybe he’s getting nervous. White’s help would be invaluable but I agree with the posters on here saying that its morally the wrong thing to do. Having said that the SARU didn’t show many morals with him
21 Oct 2008, 16:16 pm
#218 Big Hit: McGeechan’s Wasps salary is being funded by the Lions this year.
Methinks his mind isn’t 100% on the Wasps job, which is exposing Edwards at the moment.
If McGeechan needs White, he’ll use him. But I don’t think there is much that White can McGeechan about winning in SA against SA. In that respect, McGeechan’s knowledge of the Lions and touring SA dwarfs White’s.
21 Oct 2008, 16:16 pm
#215 Puma: erm, I would gladly see the ABs playing at Lotfus – they always win there with a thrashing (sorry for pun). I really love the atmosphere there during the game – deafening roar and eerie silence as game progresses not as crowd expected.
Even apart from the Boks-ABs clash, Loftus ir my favourite for S14 games, too. Then Kings Park and Newlands. Ellis Park is scary (which is great!) only for some big Tests, as for Lions games I see it, sadly, half empty. Vodacom Park in Bloemfontein may be intimidating for Currie cup games and for some S14 games, if Cheetahs are flying, but it somehow quickly fizz away, as soon as Cheetahs take a beating.
So, in terms of intimidating, bring on the most hostile stadiums.
Shame, there are no tours anymore. 
21 Oct 2008, 16:16 pm
#217 cab: Love Paris. The last time I was there the weather was -4!!! Still a great city. It will be a great tour with the Lions and the vibe here witht the rugby as you know is the best. Not sure if where you were last year for the wc final but here it was fantastic the vibe. It almost felt like the rugby final was being played here in SA!! hahaha. Everyone had on green everywhere even our milk bottles were green for the week!! Damn good atmosphere here for the rugby. Nothing on earth any where can compare for atmosphere in rugby like our country.
Yeah agree we should really be thinking of 2011. The pressure is going to bloody huge there cab. We will have the WC tag on our shoulders too. We really should be planning for that right now. We have the players. I just have a feeling it will start to look up. We have such great players at the moment and many more coming through. Damn it would be great to win the WC again twice in a row and especially in NZ.
The rain is coming down now in bucket loads. Hope its not like this for the cc final on Saturday. Just want my team the Sharks to win. Thats first even before our Boks tour then we all become one again as supporters!! hahaha. Love this game.
21 Oct 2008, 16:17 pm
#218 Big Hit: If Jake White looks for revenge against his former employers, doesn’t that make him as bad as them? An eye for an eye never resolved anything.
21 Oct 2008, 16:21 pm
#125 cab: Why is England a no-no? thats the only other job he wanted (because it suited his style of coaching)
#222 stodders: Jake White and Eddie Jones feel wronged by their former employers, why do you think Eddie’s keen to coach the Barbarians against Australia?
And Graham Henry would’ve taken (and would still take) a Lions tour to NZ
21 Oct 2008, 16:22 pm
SA has not had the players in the past, but they are coming though quick and fast now. we have a shortage of talent at no 4 after bakkies, but he can probably keep going until 2011 until the next chap comes along.
The difference is that depth is coming thru in addition to the experience veterans, which means we are going to win more conistently. there are now at least 2 players in each position who would do SA proud on the international stage, perhaps we struggle at 4 and 14 a bit.
there’s another difference, alot of the top tier coaches in modern SA are cutting-edge coaches, Rassie, Loffie, Muir are all interested in moving the ball around and honing the skills. Plumtree is a kiwi whose teaching the sharks how to retain possession the NZ way. I would not be surprised if the rugby order is upset over the next year or two.
21 Oct 2008, 16:23 pm
#219 stodders: The ELVs and the new reffing directive have messed Wasps up. (along with losing Cipriani early, Dallaglio and Waters)
21 Oct 2008, 16:24 pm
Funny thing is, if White is involved in selection we’ll see the England pack + Jonny, happy days
21 Oct 2008, 16:25 pm
#223 Big Hit:
england have nearly drawn level with the Boks on the ledger and hammer us continuously at twickenham, we hate losing to them, there is also the old anglo-boer thing which gets the boys riled up when we do.
It suits his style of coaching down to the ground.
I dont want a coach who puts himself before the team. I bought into White under the impression that the Boks were a bigger cause than him.
21 Oct 2008, 16:27 pm
#220 Nils: Yes Ab’s win more at Loftus against us than we have. Never mind it could change. Its Ellis Park that we hardly ever lose there. Not sure why it must be our house of pain. Been there many, many times. The crowd very hostile there indeed. For me the best game I watched of course was us beating the Ab’s in the 1995 but I was not there!! had to watch from a pub that time as could not get tickets. But really rugby wise the best game was against the AB’s in 2000 I think. We beat your team 46 / 40 What a cracking game that was. We scored 6 tries that day. Must be a record for the Boks against a AB side. Kings Park (Absa) stadium also a great stadium but its at sea level so easier for your team. Newlands never been kind to us against the Ab’s so pleased there is no game there next year against your team.
Yes shame no more tours. I cant see them bringing them back again. Thats why I think Oz, Nz and Sa enjoy having the Lions tour. It brings with it the old tests and mid week games. We are going to be so tired come the 3N next year after playing the Lions first then facing a long 3N after.
21 Oct 2008, 16:31 pm
#221 Puma:
very pretty city Puma, you are right. Fantastic world cup the frogs hosted too, great country for it. Think the atmospher in SA is great, but i went to see some lions (gauteng) games a few months ago (poor turnout). Am sure the tests are still a great atmosphere tho. 95 World cup final, never be anything like that, 07 got me tingling, but 95 was crazy. that plane nearly clipped the roof. lol, crazy stuff.
yes the pressure will be big for us, but can u imagine poor NZ, it will be 24 years or something and they’ll be sure that they going to win it at home. Tell you what if we play NZ in the final, bet the house on the Boks. poor buggers really deserved to have won it.
21 Oct 2008, 16:32 pm
#223 Big Hit: Big Hit I doubt the GH would take a Lions Tour to NZ now that he has been given a 2nd chance after messing it up for them in the wc last year. He owes NZ big time.
21 Oct 2008, 16:35 pm
#227 cab: I always thought you bought into his coaching ability. But you know, Meyer wanted the Ireland job and might’ve taken the England job too, is he different? Graham Henry took the Lions to Oz and coached Wales v NZ, but there’s no doubt in my mind he’d have taken them to NZ or even coached England if he was fired from the job last year like White was.
The way I see it all coaches put themselves first in the professional era. Its not nice, but thats just how it is, especially when they feel wronged.
The anglo-boer thing is silly, most people up here know nothing about the Boer wars. When they take on the England team they’re taking on a bunch of guys who want to win a rugby match who care nothing for politics and have little knowledge thereof. Its simply not an issue.
21 Oct 2008, 16:36 pm
#230 Puma: yeah, but if he was dismissed by NZ like White was, he’d have done it. Look at Robbie Deans coaching Australia after his snub, the sworn enemy.
21 Oct 2008, 16:40 pm
#229 cab: what was the plane even doing there?
21 Oct 2008, 16:42 pm
#231 Big Hit:
i think he was a very good coach, still do, but i thought he was a fair man committed to the springbok. SA is not at the point where it can tolerate more bigheads, he put various players down for the same thing, and here he goes and does precisely the same.
Meyer was very different. He served his time in SA rugby and was very unlucky not to have been picked as bok coach. white has never even coached a senior professional side when he was selected. Mayer went to go and coach a club side in England, not the national side. The national side is a different ballgame, its the highest honour one’s country can bestow on you imo and this is the loaylty paid back. nope he can be as professional as he wants, but i wont be supported him. cherio.
u are right on the anglo-boer stuff, it is very silly, i dunno but i do know the okes do not like losing to england, perhaps it can be put down to something else.
21 Oct 2008, 16:43 pm
#229 cab: Yes Paris is a lovely city. They did hold a very good and well run world cup. One of the best. Then I think the 2nd best was here in 1995. Talking about atmosphere. Yes that 1995 world cup was fantastic. Atmosphere was electric at the time. Watching that plane I too thought it was going to clip the roof off. They lucky ones at the stadium would have got such a scare with that huge engine noise!! hahaha. If you were here last year the same vibe came especially in the last week. It was electric all over again. It almost felt like we were hosting the final. I went to Bok at MonteCasino and it was full to the rafters. What a magnificent atmosphere. Really the whole week everyone of all colours were wearing the bok jersey flying flags out of cars. Workers at the shopping malls were wearing the bok stickers on the cheecks!! its was magnificent. That what a winning team can do for a country. Yes like you say that tingling feeling. We have to bring it back. I just have a feeling we have too much talent in this country to let it go downhill again. Just watch the Shark game agains the Bulls this Saturday and see how magnificent those two teams are. Why the Bulls took so long to play so well this year is just a mystery but they are there. I support the Sharks so hoping for a win for my team. They are waving flags from cars here all day and wearing the jersey too. Wonderful. It can only happen in a rugby country like ours wear we get excited about two of our own teams playing in a national cup like the cc.
Yes I think the pressure will be on NZ in 2011 even worse than if they were playing away for the rugby wc. They will have their media in their faces all the time. We could just do it you know win two in a row. That would be awesome.
21 Oct 2008, 16:46 pm
#233 Big Hit:
part of the pre-match celebrations, madness, seems like one of the boys had a brainwave to fly a 747 over the stadium, apparantly the oke flew well below the allowable height, but at the time one’s poepstring (bum) seemed to lift off with the plane.
21 Oct 2008, 16:47 pm
#235 Puma:
Well with some many South Africans geting used to the NZ conditions more and more every year with the S14 and 3nations, there’s a very good chance th Boks could take it in 2011.
21 Oct 2008, 16:52 pm
#232 Big Hit: Yes he may have.
#233 Big Hit: It was organised by Louis Luyt. Thats what I read actually in the papers just two weeks back. It was to wish the Bokke good luck that the plane had written underneath. Man it could have come down on the whole stadium!! hahaha. Laughing now but it could have. It had a great feeling at the time though.
#231 Big Hit: Agree with cab we here in SA hate losing to England. I think it could be something to do with the anglo/ boer thing but not sure really. I know we hate losing to NZ even more but that really goes down to history of us playing each other so much and until 1992 had the edge on them in the win part. We here I suppose still will always hate losing to NZ and will always celebrate more after beating them than any other team.
21 Oct 2008, 16:54 pm
#234 cab: Matt Dawson once said, everyone has a reason to hate England, the weight of history is against us when it comes to test matches. The Scots, the Welsh, the French the Irish, the Aussies, the Argies, the Saffers all have a historical reason. What I never could understand was the Kiwis, think they just hate everyone
Meyer would’ve coached the England national side, he wanted to coach internationally. Nick Mallet also nearly took the England job and would certainly be the England coach now if Woodward got the Elite director job ahead of Rob Andrew.
#236 cab: haha, woulda been scary, I’m not a huge fan of planes
21 Oct 2008, 16:57 pm
#237 Richie_7: You never know we just could. What a day that would be the first team to win back to back world cups. I would love it. Especially winning in NZ. A dream final would be to play them in the final too. Two great rugby nations playing each other in a wc final.
21 Oct 2008, 16:58 pm
#235 Puma:
lol sounds like you really enjoyed it, I wish your sharks all the best, its about time they won something, very unlucky in 2007, best team in S14 comp.
21 Oct 2008, 16:58 pm
#239 Big Hit: The Kiwis have a historical reason too. The indigenous population were nearly wiped out, and the British settlers were predominantly from Celtic stock who were forced from their native land by the Georgian rulers of the time.
Just face it, England are the nation that everyone loves to hate. Enjoy it whilst it lasts. Soon they’ll be forgotten.
21 Oct 2008, 16:59 pm
#239 Big Hit: I think kiwis just want to win all the time no matter what. Not hating anyone just wanting to win. Although their haka seems to look like they hate everyone. Well the new haka they do now.
21 Oct 2008, 17:02 pm
#242 stodders:
LOL Like when they back the USA up in all wars, and then suffer casualties from “friendly fire”. Either Americans can’t shoot, or they’re taking their chances. Bit of both I’m thinking
21 Oct 2008, 17:05 pm
#239 Big Hit:
lol, think thats true, england are not the most popular. Its alot of nonsense, the english are some of the most tolerant ppl on the planet today, there is no more tolerant city in the world than London, but i suppose its the swing-low brigade that get the dominions noses out of joint, just got to take it with a bit of banter.
i thought it was the saffers that hated everyone, the kiwis seem pretty laidback, except when Barnes blows on the whistle.
You know i can even tolerate meyer coaching england, but with everything White went throught, with the constant jockeying for the traditions, with winning the RWC, with all that was said for and against his character, i really find it quite unbelievable how he can even entertain the notion of coaching the Lions on a tour to SA.
Put it this way, can u ever imagine Martin Johnson doing it?
21 Oct 2008, 17:06 pm
#242 stodders: Forgot the
21 Oct 2008, 17:06 pm
#241 cab: Thanks cab. I really hope the Sharks win this weekend. Sold out 55 000 tickets all gone. I am going to watch with friends on the big screen. Should be great. Both teams playing fantastic rugga at the moment. I think Sharks just may win this time round. Well hoping after last year. Just hope the weather gets better. But rain is forecast for Saturday that could play into the Bulls hands!! Never mind we just need to go out there and play to our best and we should win.
Out of here now. Cheers Cab, Big Hit, Richie-7, Stodders.
21 Oct 2008, 17:07 pm
#247 Puma: Ciao!
21 Oct 2008, 17:13 pm
He’s liability and Heart will always be with South Africa, if he’s coaching technics are quetioned by S.A rugby than why not?
21 Oct 2008, 17:14 pm
#242 stodders:
lol, u enjoy the banter with Big Hit don’t you?
must say BH is pretty magnanimous and seems to take a real interest in SA rugby, never has a bad thing to say.
the kiwis seem to get riled by him tho, very strange?
21 Oct 2008, 17:14 pm
#242 stodders: I don’t think their settlers are predominatly from Celtic stock, indeed, isn’t Canterbury (of the famed Crusaders) known as little England? I’m pretty sure the Maori population don’t hold a grudge, we’ve even got one playing for us now
no, I’ve come to the conclusion they just don’t like anyone.
#245 cab: No, not Johnson but I can see Dallaglio doing it and it wouldn’t shock me to see Woodward doing it.
#247 Puma: later Puma
21 Oct 2008, 17:15 pm
#247 Puma:
Enjoy it Puma.
21 Oct 2008, 17:17 pm
#251 Big Hit:
yeah well i’m more of a corry fan than dallaglio.
woodward was more nutty than a fruitcake, god knows what White saw in him.
21 Oct 2008, 17:20 pm
#253 cab: what would you have thought of Nick Mallet coaching England? traitor?
21 Oct 2008, 17:27 pm
#254 Big Hit:
i dont know if i’d call White a traitor so much as that I am just hugely dissapointed. Professionalism is one thing, but the Springbok job is really alot more then that as I am sure you appreciate.
At least with mallet everyone knew what they were getting into, he’d **** ppl out and carry on but there was not this whole song and dance about traditions, etc etc. or turning like this. If we had just gone thru 4 years with Nick Mallett and he won it and then coached the Lions a year later, i’d also think there was nothing to the man.
I am sure his speeches of motivation would all have been about the jersey, about pride in it, about committment and loyalty – all of the very things that are not being shown by this act. Which leaves one with what? an empty vessel.
21 Oct 2008, 17:42 pm
#255 cab: fair points and I agree with you. Its not the done thing.
21 Oct 2008, 18:06 pm
#250 cab: Of course. I don’t know him, he doesn’t know him. It’s all playful jest and a jousting of opinions.
21 Oct 2008, 18:22 pm
#257 stodders: He doesn’t know me…ooooppps
21 Oct 2008, 19:31 pm
one other thing, putting aside the moral element since clearly there are none, comes the issue of that all-important Bok ledger and our test record.
Every test match won is vital, anything that gets in the way of that is the enemy as far as SA rugby should be concerned. If White is to tour with the Lions his aim will be to affect that record negatively from an SA viewpoint, so he is automatically the opposition or enemy, however PdV wants to put it so that we trounce them.
21 Oct 2008, 19:35 pm
In fact what White is looking to do is getting paid to tear down that wonderful test ledger and history he kept banging on about that he apprarently cherised as a schoolboy.
what a load of utter bollocks. Where can i send back the batch of shite that he calls a book. toilet paper. in black and white and now brown.
21 Oct 2008, 19:55 pm
#260 cab:
glad to see the pennies eventually have started dropping, tinkle tinkle, took awhile, but don’t go over doing it now, sometimes a sudden awakening could be a little strenuous on the old heart strings especially when someone held in such high esteem gets shown up for what he’s been all along
now for the rest of the sing along party to see the fading light like poor adulating Puma over here, would be a great day for integrity the day the Lions get thumped to Kingdom Come by PdV’s bokke or proteas or prickly pears or mayflowers, who knows, maybe even Lukie gets picked that day just for the glorious honour of it all.
21 Oct 2008, 20:01 pm
#261 mayhem:
no i dont think the penny has actually dropped, i cant believe what a fraud this guy is. almost as bad as your religious meanderings. truth be told, you said it all along about White, i never thought he would do this.
21 Oct 2008, 20:10 pm
#262 cab:
he hasn’t done what any other low down, self indulgent, unscrupulous, self seeking son of a b.. would have done, he was trying it since 2006 if you care to remember, they same year he told Brits he’d buy him the ticket, he was actively siding up with brother Clive for a pounds sterling appointment on her majesty’s secret service back then already, its always been about JW first and foremost in his personal SWAT analysis, even the beer fetchers I’m sure might confirm my suspicions.
21 Oct 2008, 20:14 pm
#263 mayhem:
i remember the brits statement very well and have been repeating it the whole bladdy day. i thought he was making a statement that no-one was bigger than SA rugby and that he would not be strong-armed by pressures from Lukie or Schalkie or anyone else, but that clearly is crappie.
i actually want him to explain the cheek of telling Brits that he must pack his bags and now he does the exact same thing, no its worse, Brits career has not even taken off, White’s has.
21 Oct 2008, 20:17 pm
jeez i dunno those players busted an absolute hump for white, i have never seen a more committed bok pack than in the RWC final, what must they be thinking when they hear these stories or worse when they face white for the lions.
21 Oct 2008, 20:22 pm
#264 cab:
touche, but take it easy on yourself, all hero’s are fraught with feet of clay, he’s not the first and won’t be the last either, just a pity he got away with so much for so long pretending to be Mr. Magnanimous and destroying a good few earnest individual ambitions along the way, Brits and Watson maybe only a couple we know about, would be interesting to note how many others that didn’t sing along on his hymn sheet that got side swiped as a result of standing independent of the JW hype show.
21 Oct 2008, 20:22 pm
#261 mayhem: Skoppie he has a right to earn a living. I didn’t complain when Eddie Jones came in to the Bok set up and was proud of Bryan Habana giving him his jacket.
That said – this story is hocus pocus.
Gatland was also mentioned yesterday.
McGeechan is a tremendous coach, he will build his team around Shaun Edwards, and possibly Gatland.
He will probably chat to Jake.
Jake will get a rugby job – how many RWC winning coaches are there hanging around?
21 Oct 2008, 20:24 pm
#265 cab: I really don’t think its going to happen. McGeechan has already ruled it out about a month ago. This is just White getting his name in the press to make sure people know he’s out there looking for employment imo. Thats not to say he wouldn’t go through with it, just that its unlikely to happen.
21 Oct 2008, 20:28 pm
#268 Big Hit: I agree. Also remember 1997.
21 Oct 2008, 20:29 pm
#266 mayhem:
i dont want a f’ckin hero, just someone with some consistency, thats not too much to ask for is it. i mean consistency was what he kept going on about too. all the time. actually i’m going to get myself in trouble here and am about ready to explode and thats also fine, u can ban me or do whatever u want.
Jake White will never have my support again, ever.
he probably could not care less and now neither do i.
21 Oct 2008, 20:34 pm
#269 SodaJoe: yeah, was a great series for us. Boks will be looking to avenge that one.
21 Oct 2008, 20:34 pm
just a pity i was not on the bandwagon 2 years ago when we were getting carted by every side in christendom.
21 Oct 2008, 20:34 pm
#268 Big Hit:
Its been his one sole personal ambition he’d be willing to maim for, a big UK job, Lions or Roses been his one burning ambition for a long time, maybe even bigger in his sights than the bok job was, and I’d go as far as to say its not so much about the style of game but more about the moola to be earned, ambition can be quite an insidious unsuspecting creature, Hansie and Jake, ain’t all that far apart imo.
21 Oct 2008, 20:40 pm
#273 mayhem: maybe you’re right about it being about money but the Wales job pays more than the England job (£1m v 250k) yet he turned down Wales for not paying enough yet angled for the England job which pays less. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.
21 Oct 2008, 20:40 pm
#268 Big Hit:
i think the British public in particularly are getting more than slightly queasy at hearing quotes from Mr White hovering around every England job offer and self-publicising his intentions with such apparent brazenness. i should not even let him into that fact, rather let the fool walk into it himself.
White’s sole saving grace is that he is considered the victim against an all-powerful political regime (i also thought that), but their patience will run out.
21 Oct 2008, 20:41 pm
#270 cab: Cabernet Cabernet. Cabernet. Think good thoughts. Dis maar net Rugby.
21 Oct 2008, 20:42 pm
#273 mayhem: Missed you boet.
Putting Hansie & Jake in the same camp.
Even by your standards that’s very harsh. Even the toungue biting cobra never cheated and gambled against his team.
Still classic though.
21 Oct 2008, 20:44 pm
#275 cab: Cab if I was Martin Johnson I would give Jake a call before Geech would.
21 Oct 2008, 20:44 pm
#275 cab: And every SA coach has to put up with the political regime. And it could get worse based on the last 2 weeks.
21 Oct 2008, 20:45 pm
#276 SodaJoe:
ja Soda dus waar, maar nie, hierde man het aangegaan met klomp kak oor tradiesie, oor consistency, oor windgat spelers, en nou in minder as n jaar wil hy die bokke aanneem. vir wat? asb antwoord, ek het geen idee.
21 Oct 2008, 20:50 pm
#280 cab: Relax he won’t coach against the Boks …. for a while.
Mallet just did though. What’s the difference? Gatland’s Wales vs All Blacks?
21 Oct 2008, 20:52 pm
#275 cab: well he was a victim to an extent but he was also capable of giving as good as he got which cost him his job. I was never a great fan of Jake/Eddie or ‘Sir Clive’ as people but we’re not judging them as people but rather as coaches. It seems that the SA politicians want a puppet as head coach but they can’t find one. Neither Mallet, White or PDV will lie down and be walked over.
21 Oct 2008, 20:54 pm
He will be downing the Proteas next year and I will be supporting that all the way!!!
21 Oct 2008, 21:00 pm
#282 Big Hit:
well no i dont only want someone who knows their game, i want someone who has the interests of SA rugby as a whole at heart, which is far more important.
I regret having supported this guy. just get him out.
21 Oct 2008, 21:05 pm
#283 adoons:
why is that?
21 Oct 2008, 21:09 pm
#284 cab: does Mallet have the interests of SA rugby at heart? we’ve been through this I suppose. As I see it with certain individuals with an ego, its always going to be more about them. If Dallaglio and Woodward took over as opposed to Johnson, I’d know they were the type of people to pursue their own agendas (hence Woodward running off to coach Southampton football club) rather than the having the interests of England rugby at heart. But I’d support them if they were in the job, as i would Eddie/Jake if they had been chosen by the RFU because thats what they’re there to do, i.e. coach rugby to the best of their ability. Indeed, every foreign coach is essentially pursuing their own personal ambition, even Robbie Deans. I can understand you feel let down, but it is a business at the end of the day, loyalty is sadly disappearing.
21 Oct 2008, 21:14 pm
#286 Big Hit:
The voice of unabashed reason speaking sense
and this one#283 adoons: the voice of unabashed melodramatic mamparraheit unable to cross his fading Rubicon
21 Oct 2008, 21:15 pm
#277 SodaJoe:
Howdy Soda Joe
21 Oct 2008, 21:29 pm
#286 Big Hit:
That is a very good post and argument.
Virtually every successful man has an ego it is what drives them on.
SA is a country populated with massive egos. What we did not need is another one.
I felt finally we have a coach who had the technical ability, but also the wisdom to put SA rugby first above all else. Thats what he came accross as to me, i.e. more thoughtful, less of a tyrant; but in reality he harboured exactly the same ambitions.
At some point SA will go bust, they will put an end to the endless, take, take, take mindset. Someone needs to stand up and show they are loyal to that country and recognise the great priviledge they have and put others first.
We need a coach with intergrity, who appreciates the honour he has been given.
How is that shown by someone chomping at the bit to take on SA less than a year after winning the RWC with them?
21 Oct 2008, 21:37 pm
#289 cab: I agree with you, it doesn’t feel good. But we just played Italy coached by Nick Mallet how is that different?
21 Oct 2008, 21:37 pm
#289 cab: I’m not disagreeing with you. For what its worth I think PDV is an honest guy who appreciates the honour, whether he has the technical ability remains to be seen.
21 Oct 2008, 21:42 pm
#291 Big Hit: He’s one season in. That’s one season more experience.
I think the Bok emblem might be an issue – some older guys will go sooner, some younger guys will immigrate. The NEXT coach might have a bigger issue. PdV will be here until 2011.
He will be ok. Some of the losses were disappointing in that we were playing very well and then lost composure. Autumn tours are very important for SA.
21 Oct 2008, 21:43 pm
#290 SodaJoe:
Italy are not going to affect our Test Ledger, well if they do, it will be a first.
There is a long and proudly competitive tradition with the British Lions and this guy is going to try and help them beat his supposely beloved Springbok?
#291 Big Hit:
I understand. Yes it does remain to be seen, but i have clearly backed the wrong horse based on my own belief system. Give me an honest guy any day over a dodgy opportunist. Skopskiet was quite right, lets hope he shows White a thing or two, wouldn’t that just be perfect.
21 Oct 2008, 21:50 pm
#293 cab: Bud that’s a very thin line that’s already been crossed. You know that.
I am very interested in how we approach the autumn tour. Especially from blooding some new (on merit) players. Then I will worry about the Lions.
I still smart from 1997.
Actually 1974 also hurts.
But first things first – we need to win in autumn. Well.
21 Oct 2008, 21:54 pm
#292 SodaJoe: Looking forward to it. Scotland should be a banker, the England and Wales games should be competitive. The flyhalf selection will be a crucial choice. The Currie Cup final could seal it for Steyn.
21 Oct 2008, 21:58 pm
#294 SodaJoe:
maybe a thin line, but its a line nonetheless, and you will see what happens if he takes that job, many foreigners will see that line very clearly and its to be very interesting how they handle him indeed. he’s going to be picked up and spat out, not unlike hansie if he continues. you must understand most ppl outside of SA want to see SA succeed, not Jake white succeed. So long as those goals are unanimous, there’s no problem. When they split, then one is able to seperate the wheat from the chaff, in otherwords a decent sort.
Also smart from 97, thought we could win that. Gibbs was very good.
21 Oct 2008, 22:01 pm
coaching the british lions is also going to be a whole new experience, big learning curve coming up, the schoolmaster stuff dont work with those fellas.
21 Oct 2008, 22:03 pm
#295 Big Hit: Why Steyn? I thought Michalak was at 10?
Personally – I think you know this – Steyn is not a good flyhalf, in fact I would go so far as to say he is a kak flyhalf. Pienaar is my choice, but Skoppies will be glad to know I would not b unhappy with Grant. I do not want Butch (as much as I think he is a good player – he is past his prime).
21 Oct 2008, 22:04 pm
#296 cab: We played like complete idiots in 1997. Gibbs was good, but Dawson was sublime.
21 Oct 2008, 22:08 pm
#299 SodaJoe:
yeah Dawson was good too, Bentley on the wing stood up to Small, Guscott had his moments. Johnson and Keith Wood huge presences in tight 5.
21 Oct 2008, 22:08 pm
#298 SodaJoe: I was talking about the other Steyn, Morne. He seems like a good decision-maker.
interesting fact, if Grant is selected he’ll be the third Springbok flyhalf from the same school (Maritzburg College) who also produced England cricket captain Kevin Pieterson. Two of them were world cup winning flyhalves, could be a good omen for Grant…
#299 SodaJoe: Dawson wasn’t even first choice until Howley got injured. I though JVDW was superb.
21 Oct 2008, 22:09 pm
later Sodajoe, what a week.
first watson and now white, the stupidity is astounding.
21 Oct 2008, 22:11 pm
#300 cab: **** now we go and pull the scab off.
I miss 1997 when we were so bloody good, until Nick lost his mind.
21 Oct 2008, 22:14 pm
#303 SodaJoe:
hehe
very good team, both teams very good.
cheers Soda, where in the states are you?
21 Oct 2008, 22:15 pm
# Big Hit: Bud Morne Steyn is a journeyman. Good Currie Cup, average S14, not test level.
I didn’t know Grant went to College, interesting. Good player, not getting enough breaks.
#302 cab: Again I think most people know this about me – I think Watson was unfairly villified beyond his rugby playing ability, very good player (not great). But he stepped beyond the pale. Who knows what happens after this Pandora’s Box has been opened. The straw that …
21 Oct 2008, 22:17 pm
#304 cab: Minneapolis. Good place. I like it. Interesting times every where at the moment.
But winter’s nearly here. Have to put up with “Football” on Sundays (while I have a snooze).
21 Oct 2008, 22:19 pm
#305 SodaJoe:
actually its not worth the effort, i am going to put those two pampoene as far out of my mind as possible.
21 Oct 2008, 22:21 pm
#305 SodaJoe: we’ll see, he’s only 23 and showing some good awareness. I’m interested to see who can cut it whoever plays 10 for SA in the Autumn.
21 Oct 2008, 22:22 pm
#306 SodaJoe:
Minneapolis, thats fairly unusual, thought most africans headed off to sunny west coast or big time new york?
Quite like the american football, but dont know what the hell is going on? was watching a football movie the other night with Denzyl Washington about a young boy football team in the south shortly after segregation, the parallels were pretty similar, enjoyed it.
21 Oct 2008, 22:22 pm
#307 cab: Good man – focus on November.
21 Oct 2008, 22:25 pm
#309 cab: Everyone turned right and I went left. The lost tribe.
American Football is not that complicated, but extremely long winded. As far as surrogate rugby goes – well if I have to, I have to.
21 Oct 2008, 22:26 pm
#308 Big Hit: At 15 he would be terrifying.
21 Oct 2008, 22:26 pm
#311 SodaJoe:
hehe.
some big collisions tho. big boys that can move.
later mate, better get home.
21 Oct 2008, 22:28 pm
#309 cab: I’ve seen that movie, can’t recall the name of it. The star player hurt got injured in a truck (kinda like Bobby Skinstad
).
21 Oct 2008, 22:29 pm
I am out of here too gentlemen. Good thread.
21 Oct 2008, 22:32 pm
later sodajoe, cab
21 Oct 2008, 22:55 pm
Good for Jake White. It’s the same as Mallett coaching Italy against SA, Eddie Jones assisting SA, (at a stretch) Deans coaching against NZ, Gatland against NZ, Henry coaching Wales against NZ…. the list goes on.
As a professional coach, you go where you can collect the pay cheque.
21 Oct 2008, 23:51 pm
#317 wooden spoon: Nothing wrong with that. But you have to get the job first. Everytime Jake airs his coaching aspirations in the media, I think of Donkey in Shrek jumping up and down going… Me! Me! Pick me! Has the man no pride, for f@cksake!
22 Oct 2008, 01:01 am
#228 Puma: cheers, friend, again, sorry for late reply.
My favourite game is from AI of 2004 France vs New Zealand in Paris. Practically full strenght hosts versus visitors full of young bright talents, kinda experimental side Henry brought to Europe. The very first game I saw then 22 year old Carter on the pitch orchestrating things. After about 20 mins French were ahead 6-3 and the next hour I witnesed the best ever play by the ABs (from the plenty of games I watched before and after). and it’s not about the final score 45-6, it’s about the way they totally annihilated very strong French team in front of capacity crowd.
Close to this come France vs New Zealand in WC 99 (really brilliant play by the French, my hat off), South Africa vs New Zealand at Loftus 2003, Australia vs New Zealand in Sydney 2003, Argentina vs France in 3rd place play-off in WC2007 and New Zealand vs England in WC 1995. And, of course, South Africa vs New Zealand in WC 1995. Great games.
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