Jannie best bet for Twickers
Jannie du Plessis must start at Twickenham if the Springboks are to have any hope of besting the English scrum.
Multiple front-row injuries have cut short the John Smit-tighthead experiment, and now there is talk of Brian Mujati having a sore shoulder. Du Plessis was recently called to London as his brother Bismarck and prop Gurthro Steenkamp were simultaneously released from the Bok camp. Du Plessis is likely to face one of the world’s premier looseheads in Andrew Sheridan this Saturday, and from the vibe gathered at Monday’s press conference, the Boks are feeling confident about the match up.
A World Cup winner in 2007, Du Plessis was deemed surplus to Bok requirements in 2008. He received a recall against Australia for the Ellis Park Test when CJ van der Linde was suspended and BJ Botha had left for Ireland, and did a solid job. This was on the back of a strong showing with his new Super 14 franchise, the Sharks. Many felt he was an unfortunate omission when the Boks’ UK touring squad was announced given the nature of the game up north and how Du Plessis’s strengths would be valuable.
If the Bok management pick Du Plessis to start this Saturday, it’s a sure acknowledgment of his value in northern conditions. Mujati has battled for the better part of the year, and does not boast the technical experience that comes with winning three Currie Cups and a World Cup winners medal. Mujati may be more mobile than Du Plessis, but it is the latter who will make the greater impact at the tight-phases. Up north, you need to favour set-phase proficiency over athleticism. Jake White applied this logic when playing Danie Rossouw at No 8 in last year’s World Cup, and look what came from that decision.
The question will be raised that if Mujati is fit enough to warm the bench this weekend, why isn’t he fit enough to start? The troubling answer may also point to another question as to whether he deserved a squad place ahead of seasoned specialists like Van der Linde, Botha and Du Plessis.
The same applies for Bulls hooker Chiliboy Ralepelle. If your first-choice hooker is injured, surely you’d back your second choice to slot in. It’s become accepted that Smit fulfills the hooking duties in the event of injury as he did last week, but if Smit is really supposed to concentrating on prop and Ralepelle is truly the understudy to Bismarck du Plessis, then why shouldn’t Ralepelle start this weekend? Smit’s covering for Du Plessis is only supposed to be in emergencies, as his own development at 3 was a priority on this tour.
Ralepelle has had little game time in the past two years and won his place on this tour ahead of more deserving players such as Adriaan Strauss. Strauss joined the Bok side when Smit was ruled him out of the Tri-Nations, and started for the Boks when Bismarck broke down. How Ralepelle has leapfrogged him in the hooking queue is anybody’s guess.
While calling up Jannie du Plessis is the right short-term solution, it speaks volumes for De Villiers’s lack of confidence in Mujati and Ralepelle. It may also say something about the move of Smit to tighthead, a move De Villiers promised was a long-term initiative with a view to the British & Irish Lions series and the 2011 World Cup. Either play Ralepelle at No 2 with Smit at 3, or call up Strauss to fill the hooking void. That would suggest continuity and a long-term plan.
But it’s become clear there is no plan, or at least there is little confidence in the fringe players already in the squad. Du Plessis is the best bet to scrum against Sheridan this weekend, and the Boks have a realistic chance of winning this battle. If one remembers that Mujati and Ralepelle are likely to remain in the set-up come the Lions series, then one has to ask why they aren’t being pushed through in what will be the ultimate acid Test at Twickenham. The Boks may win this Saturday, but they won’t learn anything new.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Without JdV at 12, this team would not have been in a position to say they have not lost on tour yet, Wales would have beaten us, JdV saved the game, this week Jacque Fourie saved the day, a couple times before that Adi Jacobs has done the honors, those not able to see JdV’s value at inside center are blinder than a whole family of bats.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
In fact, I’m dead keen to see Smit, chilli and beast in the front row this weekend with jannie and mujati on the bench
November 17th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
#97 Puma:
Agree about Chilli, he made an impact when he came on in the CC final. Haven’t seen much of him before but I was impressed.
Mujati though has never impressed me. Perhaps in a year or two but I would never have considered him at this stage in his carreer as a Bok.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
#100 tjokvol:
He is hugely valuable their but then we also won the WC witout him there. Makes you think…does’nt it
November 17th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
JC
I know you’re on line somewhere here. how has the front row been lining up at practise so far, although it’s only Monday
November 17th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
#102 OCO: Thats how I feel. Mujati should not have been on this tour. BJ or CJ one of those guys. Chiliboy is actually a great player when fit. Very strong guy. He has been injured for a long time though. Maybe if he stays injury free this year he may get back to where he was. Beast too I like the guy and think just leave him at 1 he has great heart and will get better all the time. Like tight head said we need a scrumming coach. No one on tour with the squad. Thats bad. We need to address that for next year for the Lions tour and agains the Ab’s and Oz.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
There are a lot of guys who know more than me about scrum talent & technique. Tighthead, Gerbs, Loosehead (imaginative nicks hose forwards), but here’s my observation.
The only front 3 that really did the business since RWC has been CJ, Bis, Beast. We dominated Australia and NZ in the last few 3N games.
I have never seen a Bok scrum with BJ dominate anyone.
It all starts – in this order – 3,2,1.
We need some miliepap youngsters back again in development. Brian Mujati could be it, but at 23 he’s a TH baby.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
All quite here on the western front
November 17th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
#100 tjokvol:
You obviosuly missed the trys that could have been other than JdV made mistakes. You also seem to miss that JdV gave away more trys in the 3N than any other player.
As Zulu says we won the RWC without him.
We have lost a greater percentage of games with JdV at centre than we’ve won when you consider the 100% record of FS/JF.
JdV is not as fgood as you think. Never heard any one or read anyone outside SA singing JdV’s praises.
the S14 stats show that FS outplayed JdV in all facets other than intercept tries – even head to head Sharks/Stormers)
there’s no contest, any other international team would play FS long before JdV or their homegrown players. Many have said so.
Strange that PdV will not play FS/JF he knows that he’ll be shown up if he does.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
#102 OCO: I would play Smit, Chili, Beast on Saturday with J dup on the bench.
I think Chili is going to be good. He’s big, strong and very quick.
Have Smit throw in to take pressure off.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
What I am finding worrying at this moment is that the SA Media obviously have been given rose tinted glasses. Come on, the performances in Wales and Scotland are placing us on a collision course for a hiding at Twickenham. England maybe rebuilding but they will not be as poor as in their finishing as our previous challenges. If the Boks don’t step up considerably we’ll leave this tour with a loss on a tour, that the Welsh and Scots are taking a lot of positives from. Edinburgh on Saturday night was quiet, normally the bok fans celebrate late into the night, by 11, there were more tourists than Bok fans.
Is it the players? Form is one thing, some of the selections could be argued for too. But it seems the team lack passion or self-belief. Or is it the tactics? Structures? Game plan? If you get the ball, kicking it back to your opposition in the hope they’ll make a mistake means that you’ll defend a lot, which we have done in the last 2 tests. Unless we retain possession, setup phase play and rule out the silly mistakes and penalties, I think we could be on the wrong end of an England team that retains it’s core.
PDV – back to basics!
November 17th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
#103 Zulushark: JdV is a great player most of the time but he can also be a selfish player and never passes. It cost us two tries on Sat him not passing. I saw it and all my mates did too. They showed you that again on All Out Rugby JdV just taking the ball up himself and he could easy have passed and it would have been a try. Jantjes done the same once. I would play Steyn and JF this Sat at 13 and 12. England will be expecting JdV and Adi. That would surprise them. They played well there in the world cup. Not taking anything away from Adi. He has played really fantastic this year but in the wet conditions I think I would have Steyn there. Especially against England.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Last post about the shambles upfront… then I really am gone…
Why did Bis get injured in the first place and why did beast then get beaten??? Because they were taking strain holding up Smit.
now, cheers!
November 17th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
#108 OCO: Ag Kak man bud. You’ve been breathing too many Kuwaiti oil fumes.
Steyn is a good player (at 15 would be downright scary) – but he is very 1 dimensional crash bang slow kick silly drop goal attempt player.
Jean is very intelligent, get’s the best out of his 10 and 13. Tackles extremely well.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
#110 Weepee:
It’s a bit of everything in my opinion. If I think of the team enviroments that I have played in in the past, team spirit is a key ingredient to successs. It dictates how far you will go for your team and your mates. Look at the sharks this year. I believe there is a fundemental problem within nthe bok team at the moment with various players and coaching staff not pulling together, but ratther in their own direction
November 17th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
#110 Weepee: I think its the gameplan. Also the guys are tired. Also the different refs view up there. We had no clue what he wanted from us. He blew us all the time then in the 2nd half blew the Scots all the time they too asked him what he wanted. We need to beat England well for me to think that this gameplan is working. Nothing so far has really worked. If we think we done well by beating Scotland by 4 then we are really on the road to going backwards very, very quick. Ab’s 2nd side beat them by 30.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
#108 OCO:
Hi Oco,
According to the local rugby journo’s it is just about a dead certainty that JdV will be crowned as the SA rugby player of the year. Adi was also quoted last week as saying that Jean is the best and must take a lot of the credit for his (success) this year.
Why can you not accept that he is very good?
November 17th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
#98 Zulushark:
Mujati is probably not technique wise yet, much like Lawrence Sephaka may have been strong enough at some stage but he lacked the technique to get the hit up front right
when Mujati fronted with Heinke and Wepener last year they were probably the most powerful front row in the country, he obviously needs a lot of technical training as does Beast who got taught a huge scrumming lesson against Murray of Scotland.
Props tend to mature late, this new giant of a 19 year old from Free State is probably our next loosehead coming through, though hard tough props usually take a good few years to mature, learn the tricks of the trade and develope the deep seated power that is required of a front row forward.
as to Garry Botha, I always knew he was a pipsqueak when it came to comparing him to any world renowned hooker, he would never had made my team ever, I’d have picked Brits before Botha,
However others like Bismark and Wepener and even Chilli Boy are another kettle of fish altogether and are probably all superior to John Smit in power play and mobility.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
#108 OCO: Jacques scored a lovely try on Saturday – I also liked how he started communicating across the field. I will say he is a great player.
Adi deserves his spot. Defense and attack.
That’s the way sport is.
Oh yes – Steyn can tackle and also cleans up on the deck well. Have to be fair.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
#111 Puma: is steyn a wet conditions specialist?
November 17th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
#111 Puma:
Spot on but this raises the question, is he playing for himself or for the team. If it is the former then maybe that is the general problem within the team. A team player will pass the ball to his mate, even with a open try line in front of him purely cos his mate is closer to the poles
November 17th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
#116 Robzim: Adi is my player of the year. He had to put up with a lot of “quota” derision. Kept his mouth shut and did his talking on the field.
Saved our arses on Saturday too. Last minute certain try tackle and turn (Steyn did well cleaning up).
November 17th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
#119 Transformation:
I’d be quite happy to have steyn at 12 and to be honest, if jdv brings out the best around him, place him at 13 with steyn at 12
November 17th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
#117 tjokvol: Gary Botha the most overrated plump flank in SA. I agree.
But fok he was better than Brits – the most overrated plump center in SA.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
#105 Puma:
TH is a legend and knows what he’s talking about (from my humble perspective who knows nothing about raw power).
Mujati has done nothing at CC or S14 or Internatonal level to warrant his selection. In all games, with different coaches, he has failed in the scrum and, without a strong foundation, one can’t launch an attack. Mujati is good around the park but that doesn’t help if you fail at your prime objective.
Beast, well, everyone loves the guy. The sound of ‘BEAST’ still echoes in the highlands long after the Scotland game. He hasn’t performed well though in the NH tour thus far but at least he show that he does have what it takes to compete with teams like Oz and NZ so he can’t be that bad!
maybe the food/weather/climate/surroundings put him a little at awe and under pressure but I think he’ll play a blinder this weekend. I’m betting that the proximity of the home shores after the game will up his spirits.
I’m more worried that the Pom centres will demolish JdV/Adi. As once said ‘He who controls the centre of the pitch controls the game’ and we’ve been missing this since PdV took over. It’s all good your forwards dominating and laying the foundation but you still have to make use of the ball.
In the first two games (and in the 3N) we failed to do this. Then it was the ‘bash Butch’ brigade but we don’t have Butch now and we’re doing no better.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
#113 SodaJoe:
Hi Soda,
Steyn is not only a slow kicker but he also runs very slowly. I also doubt very much whether he is a fast thinker
I got someone from London to bring me some of the stuff you recommended. It is a struggle to find anything that is not mainstream in this place nowadays..
November 17th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
#124 OCO:
Our centre will be fine against the poms. their centres are not great shakes
November 17th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
#125 Robzim:
Thats a bit harsh on the youngster.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Does anyone want tickets to Twickenham?
£60-£71 per ticket
November 17th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
#125 Robzim:
you obviously missed him conning kaplan in nthe cc final that he just wanted to take the kick before going off for blood….hehehehehehe
November 17th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
#124 OCO: Bud I haven’t seen Adi & JdV dominated once at center, and that includeceveryone who shouted NONU from the treetops. The English centers are hardly in 3N class, and are just starting to play together (and got totally dominated by Mortlock & Giteau at flyhalf).
We have agood center pairing and I only worry that Adi’s knee holds up (and then we have Jaques).
Front row is a different story.
Shape of back 3 is a different story.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
#103 Zulushark:
You will never be able to convince me that that world cup we played in last year was anything more than a whole over inflated ring around the rose bush that was nice to win but never tested our metal in anyway whatsoever, apart from our close shaves against 12th and 13th seeded Fiji and Tonga, nothing much happened, except for Bryan Habana getting shown a clean pair of heels by an unknown Zimbo.
Other than that it was a dress rehearsal charade, nobody bothered coming to the party apart from a dead beat Argentina and a self inflicted undercooked England.
Steyn played very well, enough to make his place very valuable in the Bok setup, but JdV is still the incumbent first center in the team, Steyn will need to work on his distribution skills and overview a little while longer yet, soon enough one or two of the incumbents will get injured or make way for him to show his magic again.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
#120 Zulushark: Yes he never passed on Sat twice when certain tries were on. They reshowed you that on All Our Rugby where JdV never passed and it cost us. He is a great player but times like that he is a selfish player playing for himself. If he had passed we would have had those tries for sure. Jantjes too make one mistake by not passing. They showed you that too on All Out Rugby on the slow mo. So you could see it easy. They are both great players but have to play for the team. Also remember when JdV got injured last year at the WC I was watching Wrap Down Under the Aussie show and theys said it was a blessing that injury for the Boks as they said finally F. Steyn would get to play as the rated him very much more than JdV they said F. Steyn would play for them 1st up always. So there its not just some of us that see it, its others from overseas too.
#119 Transformation: Just think he is a big guy and made some big tackles on Sat. I would like to see him start on Sat. Then I know that will never happen.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
#116 Robzim: I call it WP bias. His team didn’t even make the playoffs and he’s the best player??? Absolute nonsense.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
#125 Robzim: Hello Rob.
Kak game on Saturday.
But we will win this week.
I am going to the game. Twickenham has not been a happy hunting ground for me.
Pity about music, especially bringing it in from UK will be expensive.
Tried mailing stuff a while ago – never arrived. More than once. Or I would have helped you out.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
#131 tjokvol: Does it matter, NZ and Aus won it without facing SA in 2 RWC’s
Who cares and history certain will not elaborate about it
November 17th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
#127 Zulushark:
Perhaps, but imo he has all the attributes to become a great fullback in the Latham mould. Big, strong, huge boot etc.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
#131 tjokvol: Play him at 15 and Jantjes at 11.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
#131 tjokvol:
No matter what, it was the WC and we won it. It was no fault of ours that other teams (France) lost games thay should have won. We never choose the route but we accepted it gladly and for the next 4 years we have the right to be know as the World Champs !!!
November 17th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
#125 Robzim: FS ran rings around JDV in competition this year, playing opposite each other. Sorry dude, be real.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
#133 goyougoodthing2: Goody don’t be boring.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
#116 Robzim:
Hi ROb,
Never rated JdV and never will until he puts in the yards. It’s not a JdV vs FS thing as this goes on before I ever heard of FS.
Just prefer an honest journeyman against a show boater that’s all.
if JdV gets the prize then good luck to him.
The International personna know who they would pick at #12 and it’s not jdV.
mind you, not the first time that a prize is donated to a losing side to keep their morals up.
You will have also read the stats from the link I posted you.
Anyhow, despite the wonderous form of JdV he still couldn’ captain his side to a meaningful win against the Lions on two occassions, nor could he break through their defense.
It’s a matter of record.
I’m sure Adi would like to ‘come home’, he’s said so himself. Also note another player (well many) had to join WP to prove they were ‘worthy’ to get into the Bok squad.
hate people who lavish praises for their own ends.
Also note that JdV said he wanted to play along side FS a few months back. He also said he wanted to play with JF recently. Seems he’s trying to cement his position in the squad come what may.
Don’t see why PdV won’t give the FS/JF combo a try. Certainly worth a try (pun intended) as we’re going nowhere and little else to blame any more. Could save his job.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
#137 SodaJoe: Get Jantjes off the field
November 17th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
#139 goyougoodthing2: Not true.
November 17th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
#141 OCO: I support the Lions (for my sins).
November 17th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
#140 SodaJoe: I’m not being boring, I’m being biased like everyone else
November 17th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
#133 goyougoodthing2:
If I was one match away from losing a serious bet I will rather keep a low profile
I see the Sharks/Stormers are meeting early in the Super 14. Payback time!!
November 17th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
#134 SodaJoe: Same here I have been every year and still waiting for a Bok win
Will be hoping for one this weekend
November 17th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
#136 Robzim:
I like the idea of him at f/b but i still like him at centre. He gets across the gainline 9/10 times and he is deceptivly quick over the first 10 meters and thats what give the like of adi and kanko the room to move
November 17th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
#146 Robzim: That bet has a strong possibility of being won! Now if the Boks would only listen to the coach for 80 minutes I would have won already