Boks under achieve in 2008
27 Nov 2008
The Springboks are a better team than the current All Blacks – and Saturday’s Test against the Poms at Twickenham will prove it.
One thing New Zealanders love to do is talk up their All Blacks. It is something those in the northern hemisphere also take great delight in – that is talking up the men in black.
It could be that it makes defeat against them seem honourable and bearable. It could also be that New Zealand, as a nation, has never done anything to offend anyone, whereas white South Africans will always live with the baggage of apartheid.
The rugby world, post 1994, has come to accept and tolerate us, but – with the possible exception of the French – they don’t like us.
It is why the Springboks will simply have to settle for winning World Cups while the All Blacks continue to win over fans and the northern hemisphere rugby media every November.
New Zealand once again have the mantle of best team in the world in a non-World Cup year. This New Zealand team will be even better in 2009 and in 2010 they will be unbeatable. In 2011 they will implode and the cycle will continue and we’ll be told by New Zealanders that the World Cup has killed international rugby and that the yellow cup really means nothing because a team has to be judged over a four-year period and not a three week play-off period.
Which brings me back to the weekend’s Test matches. I must confess to cheating this weekend, as I never watched the Springboks or All Blacks matches live. I viewed both games knowing the result and without the additional pressure of having to file on the final whistle – hence the lateness of the column.
What it confirmed to me, and it is something I have been saying for a couple of years, is that the Springboks possess the better individual talent, with the exception of Richie McCaw and Dan Carter, who are two of the finest to play the game. This current generation of South African player is among the most special ever produced in this country, and that is why the expectation must be high and performances like the one against Scotland two Saturdays ago can’t be justified or tolerated.
It is the dismantling of England at Twickenham that sets a standard, much like the Boks did in Paris when they humiliated England 36-0 in a World Cup play-off match.
You can tell me England are poor and in a shambles, but only two weeks ago we were being told this is a new generation of English player, good enough to beat Australia, South Africa and New Zealand on successive weekends. The wise scribes in the United Kingdom also told us that the Boks were the weakest of the Tri nations teams. It was based on the statistical evidence of the Boks finishing third in the Tri Nations – a result that was as unacceptable as the performance against Scotland.
In assessing the year, nine Bok wins in 13 starts statistically is a very good return, but it is the two Tri Nations wins in six matches that will define the season because this was the year in which the World Cup holders should have been superior to New Zealand and Australia in belief and results.
New Zealand, this year, lost 13 of their World Cup All Blacks to Europe. Many of them will return to New Zealand in 2011 and be good enough to challenge for a World Cup squad, while Australia also entered a rebuilding phase. With the Springboks, there was no rebuilding because there was no need for a makeover of a World Cup winning squad with an average age of 25. It is why 2008 will always be the season of missed opportunity. The brilliant win against England only emphasized how much was missed in the Tri Nations.
A settled Bok team, with so much natural talent, should have whipped the All Blacks and Wallabies, home and away, and then there would have been a supporting argument to my theory that South Africa’s players are better than New Zealand’s. Instead I’ll continue to get the 19-0 defeat at Newlands thrown at me and the names of Carter and McCaw. On the latter I concede, but overall the only thing the All Blacks should be beating the Boks at is the ridiculously overhyped pre-match haka.
Take it from me, New Zealand, if they play to their potential, won’t beat England by 36 points this weekend because they are not as good a side as a Bok side in full throttle, and that is why 2008 was the year in which the Boks stumbled when they should have soared.
731 Comments
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28 Nov 2008, 00:46 am
#697 Big Hit:
Sorry,2 years ago you gave NZ credit………lol.
Ok look at it this way then.I am going to say the RWC format is wrong.RWC 2007 is a perfect example at what could happen.A team goes through without playing any of the big guns.I understand it wasnt there fault due to NZ being unable to beat France and OZ unable to beat a weak English team.I dont agree with the format thats all.
And another thisg is people saying about the weak French team.Now SA lost to France 4 out of the last 6 games i think now.SA cant say France was weak,didnt France beat SA at home twice the year before RWC?
28 Nov 2008, 00:50 am
#698 Big Hit:
Understand Boks holding the RWC and NZ being the team to beat always.
28 Nov 2008, 01:00 am
#635 ET:
I certainly hope so! Have been very fortunate thus far with regards to education and exposure to rugby.
Yes, it has. My father lived in Landsdowne and my mother in Surrey Estate.
Where abouts in Cape Town are you from?
28 Nov 2008, 01:04 am
#644 KingPaul:
I’m not going to make a career playing rugby! It’s a hobby for me. Got some good mates going there though.
#645 SodaJoe:
Thank you. Skopskiet? No, no relation. From what I gather he was banned from this site. Does that mean I’m headed down a similar path?
28 Nov 2008, 01:20 am
#666 julz:
I’m afraid it’s how I feel when I open the newspaper or read up on the internet. Why should I be afraid to express how I feel when everyone else seems very happy to do so in much less polite terms? In an ideal world I would not even know the word racist – but it’s not and racism is still prevalent in certain quarters.
This is interesting. You cite our excessive kicking as an example of a poor game plan (or lack of one), yet rugby journalists throughout this country would have you believe we tried to run the ball from every corner of the field.
Yes, we do kick excessively, and quite often, pointlessly. It’s all to do with a desire to gain territory, and it’s related to this ‘structured’ game plan everyone speaks of. I do believe it is necessary, but not to the extent that it’s all we do.
Not hanging on to the ball? As in catching or offloading? Either way, it’s part of the greater plan to teach the players to improve their skills and execution in a match situation.
The question of isolation, however, must be a coaching issue. At times we’ve been clinical at ruck time. Quick, clean ball. Other times it’s like every ruck we’re fighting for our lives. Something Gold needs to address properly before B & I arrive.
28 Nov 2008, 01:20 am
#705 ziyaad:
B & I Lions that is…
28 Nov 2008, 01:21 am
#677 saffa_guy:
Yep will do.
28 Nov 2008, 01:55 am
#698 Big Hit:
Most rate the english as the best in spite of the most horrific post RWC win and loss to all and sundry.
What people rate and what results show can differ.
28 Nov 2008, 02:01 am
#680 dquinn25:
Any team that plays to their potential are the best.
Just maybe that the results that RSA get is their potential.
28 Nov 2008, 02:03 am
ziyaad – interesting thoughts but i cannot agree entirely. You cannot single out players like Burger, FDP and Matfield and say there are overated. The reality is that in any national side these guys would feature.
Stats only tell half the story. The other half is reflected in the results. I preferred JW as a coach mainly becuase I understoond what he was saying and that gave me confidence in how he communicated with the team. PdV is doing a good job probably no better or worse than JW did in his initial part of his tenure. There is not much to compare only that I think (in myopinion) JW would have had a a better and more consistent set of results with a team that he had such a close connection with. This takes time so in time perhaps Pdv will do the same – thats if he isn’t removed prematurely. Nothing is inmpossible in SA Rugby
28 Nov 2008, 05:27 am
hahaha what a joke keo… very well, they may be better players, but they arent the better team, coming last in the 3N’s proves it… its because of poor journalists like yourself that expectation leads to the shattering such as the 19-0 loss… world champions coming last in a 3 horse race says so much for that mantle doesnt it…
again Keo… I laugh at each and every one of your assessments, Ive seen your tipping skills throughout this years 3N’s and remind me how many of those did you tip correctly ??? not one was it… therefore, how can we logical take anything you say seriously, we can’t !!
28 Nov 2008, 07:01 am
#100 Puma: yeah but Puma, when England beat france in that semi final, they actually had a SA reffing the game who policed the french infringements… surely while you and your family were screaming for the AB’s to take a drop in that last 20 minutes you were also shouting at the referee (Wayne Barnes) for not giving at least one of the obvious infringements ??? surely a penalty should have been forthcoming… or the fact that before McAllister tryed his droppie attempt from near halfway, that the ref had called advantage, indicating NZ would get a penalty ?? which was never forthcoming….tell me, a drop goal attempt from 50 metres , do you
consider that a fair advantage ???
Its all good to blame the Ab’s for dumb play, I agree with you, but also the refs blind incompetance should not be forgotten.. how would the majority of SA supporters feel if it was them on the end of that reffing performance… I knwo you have to play to the ref, but then again, thats why it was so hard to win in SA before the apartheid ban, because they were shocking home town refs too…
NZ were simply reffed out of that 1/4 final, nothing more nothing less… and then everyone labels them chokers… if you can honestly look at the 1/4 final and say the game was a fair, even game of rugby, then I will start to watch soccer…
28 Nov 2008, 07:51 am
I agree with the positivity and the rating of the players but you have been smoking some really bad majat my friend. We have always suffered a national identity crises which has carried over to our rugby. No my friend, we are not AB quality…but I do want to beat them everytime!
28 Nov 2008, 07:57 am
Morning all, Hey Jake, let me take the opertunity to congratulate you on this historic day. For those of you that don’t know, today, exactly 1 year and 39 days ago, Jake won us the World Cup. Thanks Jake!!!!
28 Nov 2008, 09:25 am
Jeez guys I can’t believe the hits this thread has generated but that’s what happens when history is re-written and re-written and re-written, sawing sawdust.
Ziyaad, I’ve said first time you posted your screed (did you answer?), I suggest you read up what statistics are used for and how much credibility reliance on them generates. My view: not much unless you are looking at rainfall or traffic or something. Even there, be careful.
Rugby is only a passing interest for me; my main focus is two wheeled sport (bicycle and motorcycle). Here, luck is ever present but seldom used as a point of argument. The rider/s focus on the track, their tactics and strengths, totally. Team management supports, keeps tabs on the opposition and adjusts the tactics accordingly. No one cares about statistics except to respect the opposition. Race is seldom (if ever) a factor as its first past the post. Lance Isaacs, Arushen Moodley, Nolan Hoffman, Seamus McCarthy et al have proved themselves.
So, rather than bleat on about race, history and statistics, look at what existing and previous coaches have done right and wrong; improve the right and eliminate the wrong. Easy ha, ha. Then strategise around your team strengths and the opposition weaknesses.
Finally the AB’s are the team to beat, no argument. They combine every facet, including importing players, a bit of strategic foul play (BoD & JS), working the refs, citings, the rules (ELV’s) and the IRB, with great rugby. Their Achilles heel is that they are so seldom put under pressure, particularly and suddenly by fired up teams they should beat easily and dodgy refs, that they do not know how to deal with it.
28 Nov 2008, 10:05 am
Ziyaad, is actually in love with PdV. He makes an argument for him, the same way my mom does for my dad when he has done something wrong. Maybe he is PdV’s forgotten love child.
Anyway…. Players are coached to do things by the, and wait for it Ziyaad, ‘cos this will astound you, coach. Therefore, the coach must be held accountable for things he does wrong, as well as praised for things he gets right.
Why PdV wanted to mess with a formula that worked in the world cup is, I think, the thing confused the public and the players. This was proven in the Tri-Nations by the 4 losses we suffered. That was wrong.
However, it has been proven, as against the Wallabies at Ellis and the Poms at Twickenham, that reverting to a more structured formula made the public and the players feel more at ease. That was right.
If PdV has worked that out in 1 short year, then he deserves more praise than is being bestowed upon him now, and we can all rest easy in the knowledge that he has figured out the best way for the Boks to play.
If, however, he chooses to revert to the style of play employed in the 4 losses during the Tri-Nations, he would have learnt nothing, which would be a great pity and sure fire way of losing his job as coach.
Let’s all hope that it is the former rather than the latter, as, I think, we ALL wish him only the best and truly want him to make a success of this opportunity. I know I do.
28 Nov 2008, 11:45 am
on the PdV/Meyer selection, PdV was correctly selected and won the vote.
so far as merit or deservedness, one has to look at their coaching records.
PdV’s highlight was guiding the U21 Boks to RWC success.
HM’s highlight was having coached at S14 level for many seasons with a successful franchise that was the first SA side to lift the S14 trophy.
To my mind, if HM was black and PdV was white, there’s be no dount who would be selected.
However, it might be argued that due to inherent racism PdV has not been given an opportunity at S14 level to show what he is capable of. Hence the appointment.
28 Nov 2008, 12:25 pm
#716 CraigE:
A rather stupid and immature opening to your post.
Yes, the coach is accountable for the game plan, strategy, etc., but how can the coach be accountable for a player kicking the ball out on the full, or spilling the ball 2metres from the line?
And the rest of your post… well, had you read my posts properly, you’d have realised I’ve dealt with that already.
28 Nov 2008, 12:38 pm
#715 husky:
No, I didn’t see it. But I can’t agree that statistics are unreliable. Of course, statistics are not the only means to demonstrate a point, since there are always variables to consider. An obssession with figures and statistics is why Western Province consistently choose a Craven Week team with the 22 guys who fastest, strongest and biggest, with little consideration for skill and finesse. However, in the long run, statistics do reveal much about particular issues. Who can deny that South Africa’s record (AND FORM) prior to the WC was worse than New Zealand? And I used statistics to back that up. See what I’m saying?
On the rest of your post, you take my use of historical evidence, the issue of race and statistics out of context. I’m not complaining about past seasons, I tried to put it into perspective to make particular points.
- We were not the best team after the WC
- Our most experienced squad ever too did not mean we were much better than before.
- Australia have improved under Deans
- New Zealand have not lost out much in terms of the match 22 they can field.
Moreover, I made the point that we should embrace PdV’s new style (for a number of reasons), and then, in my only reference to race, I questioned the overwhelmingly negative responses about the coach.
28 Nov 2008, 12:42 pm
Ziyaad. All you post about are race related posts defending PDV then have the temerity to call other bloggers racist and race obsessed!?
28 Nov 2008, 12:43 pm
#710 kesbok:
Matfield, on his performances this year, would not be a tie-in for our Tri-Nations counterparts. Burger would never play openside flank for New Zealand or Australia (although they may make room for him at blindside, but then again, I do not question his talent, I question his ability “in the role of fetcher and a linking man”), and Fourie Du Preez has been poor throughout this year.
However, the public see these players as indispensable, and despite their poor performances, they simply cannot be dropped. Remember the outrage when Burger was substituted against Australia? My point is that you cannot blame a coaching staff for that.
28 Nov 2008, 12:45 pm
#720 bok2007:
Show me where I do that. And show me how all my posts are race-related. Actually don’t. I don’t have time for you.
28 Nov 2008, 12:51 pm
#95 ziyaad: Sorry Ziyaad but you quite simply are comparing Jake Whites success with PDV. You stating you are not is irrelevant your whole article is doing just that. Shame on you for belittling our World Cup victory and the magnificent performance of the whole squad, management and players.
Gary Player famously responded when someone told him he was lucky; Its funny, the harder I practice, the luckier I get. South Africa won the world cup because they were the best prepared side going into the tournament, The All Blacks were not. That is why we had the luck go our way.
It is very easy to manipulate the facts to suite your point of view as you have done. I found your article very subjective and your opinions righteous and arrogant and the give away at the end racist.
28 Nov 2008, 12:53 pm
#721 ziyaad:
of course you can, Schalk burger should never be dropped.
he gives his very best in every single game, until that sort of committment dies down, why would you even contemplate in doing such a thing? His tackle count and workrate is phenomenal for 80 mins. that substituion of Burger was correctly criticised, it was very poor one.
Matfield is a different story, since it is arguable whether sometimes he rests on his laurels, but Burger never ever gives less than his level best with that Jersey on.
28 Nov 2008, 13:31 pm
“The Springboks are a better team than the current All Blacks – and Saturday’s Test against the Poms at Twickenham will prove it.”
Keo, I know you are a bit out of touch with reality after Boks brilliant performance in London. There is a very simple and cheap cure – just whisper quietly before/after breakfast ZERO TO NINETEEN, and common sense will slowly return to you.
28 Nov 2008, 13:38 pm
#610 julz: Ziyaad was absolutely right with that last comment. It was the best comment of all three the posts. Because its the truth! You know too. You don’t seem to think that he is wrong with the comment, just that he should not say it. Well he should. It’s about time people admit that that is the real problem people have with Pdv and his ideas.
28 Nov 2008, 13:42 pm
#723 ARK: You’re stupid. Go read it again. You’ve been fed the drivel the newspapers and the keo boys feed you, and you can’t see straight. Your comment confirms that you are the racist not Ziyaad. He is just trying to make you take off your rose tinted glasses.
28 Nov 2008, 13:43 pm
#720 bok2007: You’re stupid too. Go read it again.
28 Nov 2008, 13:44 pm
#716 CraigE: and you are actually in love with jake white.
28 Nov 2008, 13:50 pm
#707 ziyaad: Thanks for the posts. Now its easier for me to see who the racists are. They are the ones whose nerves were bothered by your last line. I am gunning them. They must come out and say its not true, but none have. Because it is. Their minds cannot give Pdv a chance or credit, cos their eyes cannot see past his skin.
28 Nov 2008, 14:01 pm
#716 CraigE:
“Why PdV wanted to mess with a formula that worked in the world cup is, I think, the thing confused the public and the players. This was proven in the Tri-Nations by the 4 losses we suffered. That was wrong.”
CraigE i dont know what you are saying here but look at 2006-2007 Tri nations and tell me,where did Jake Whites coaching get him.His coaching worked in RWC cos look at the opposition.Easy,works against 8th and 7th placed IRB ranked teams but against NZ and OZ and France it hardly ever worked
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