Boks under achieve in 2008
27 Nov 2008
The Springboks are a better team than the current All Blacks – and Saturday’s Test against the Poms at Twickenham will prove it.
One thing New Zealanders love to do is talk up their All Blacks. It is something those in the northern hemisphere also take great delight in – that is talking up the men in black.
It could be that it makes defeat against them seem honourable and bearable. It could also be that New Zealand, as a nation, has never done anything to offend anyone, whereas white South Africans will always live with the baggage of apartheid.
The rugby world, post 1994, has come to accept and tolerate us, but – with the possible exception of the French – they don’t like us.
It is why the Springboks will simply have to settle for winning World Cups while the All Blacks continue to win over fans and the northern hemisphere rugby media every November.
New Zealand once again have the mantle of best team in the world in a non-World Cup year. This New Zealand team will be even better in 2009 and in 2010 they will be unbeatable. In 2011 they will implode and the cycle will continue and we’ll be told by New Zealanders that the World Cup has killed international rugby and that the yellow cup really means nothing because a team has to be judged over a four-year period and not a three week play-off period.
Which brings me back to the weekend’s Test matches. I must confess to cheating this weekend, as I never watched the Springboks or All Blacks matches live. I viewed both games knowing the result and without the additional pressure of having to file on the final whistle – hence the lateness of the column.
What it confirmed to me, and it is something I have been saying for a couple of years, is that the Springboks possess the better individual talent, with the exception of Richie McCaw and Dan Carter, who are two of the finest to play the game. This current generation of South African player is among the most special ever produced in this country, and that is why the expectation must be high and performances like the one against Scotland two Saturdays ago can’t be justified or tolerated.
It is the dismantling of England at Twickenham that sets a standard, much like the Boks did in Paris when they humiliated England 36-0 in a World Cup play-off match.
You can tell me England are poor and in a shambles, but only two weeks ago we were being told this is a new generation of English player, good enough to beat Australia, South Africa and New Zealand on successive weekends. The wise scribes in the United Kingdom also told us that the Boks were the weakest of the Tri nations teams. It was based on the statistical evidence of the Boks finishing third in the Tri Nations – a result that was as unacceptable as the performance against Scotland.
In assessing the year, nine Bok wins in 13 starts statistically is a very good return, but it is the two Tri Nations wins in six matches that will define the season because this was the year in which the World Cup holders should have been superior to New Zealand and Australia in belief and results.
New Zealand, this year, lost 13 of their World Cup All Blacks to Europe. Many of them will return to New Zealand in 2011 and be good enough to challenge for a World Cup squad, while Australia also entered a rebuilding phase. With the Springboks, there was no rebuilding because there was no need for a makeover of a World Cup winning squad with an average age of 25. It is why 2008 will always be the season of missed opportunity. The brilliant win against England only emphasized how much was missed in the Tri Nations.
A settled Bok team, with so much natural talent, should have whipped the All Blacks and Wallabies, home and away, and then there would have been a supporting argument to my theory that South Africa’s players are better than New Zealand’s. Instead I’ll continue to get the 19-0 defeat at Newlands thrown at me and the names of Carter and McCaw. On the latter I concede, but overall the only thing the All Blacks should be beating the Boks at is the ridiculously overhyped pre-match haka.
Take it from me, New Zealand, if they play to their potential, won’t beat England by 36 points this weekend because they are not as good a side as a Bok side in full throttle, and that is why 2008 was the year in which the Boks stumbled when they should have soared.
731 Comments
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27 Nov 2008, 20:03 pm
#642 SodaJoe: Glad you are having fun. Bit of a statement by Keo again I agree!
Going to see my sister in a play tonight, should be amusing. So off now, you can chat about Leeds to ET !!
27 Nov 2008, 20:03 pm
#611 ET:
Two wrongs don’t make a right. You can’t solve a problem using the same energy that created the problem in the first place.
27 Nov 2008, 20:04 pm
#651 carol: I think that there are 3 true football supporters on Keo. Me, ET & JustRugby. The rest are Johnny Come Lately opportunists.
27 Nov 2008, 20:05 pm
#649 SodaJoe: hahaha, nee my tjom, ek is ‘n volbloed Matie. Wanneer laas het ‘n Ikey vir die Bokke gespeel? Om te dink, wanneer laas het ‘n Ikey vir WP gespeel?
My best memories of my student days are the Intervarcity games between Maties and Ikeys. Maties always won, but those Ikey girls were smoking hot!!!!
27 Nov 2008, 20:05 pm
#648 ET: You did say I was confused and incorrect……………I probably was
Very sensible spending habits there.
27 Nov 2008, 20:06 pm
#653 SodaJoe: Justrugby another Man U man along with Grant10!
Got to beautify now!! Outta here………..
27 Nov 2008, 20:07 pm
#640 SodaJoe:
Hey Soda they (Lions) are not my team though. And you know that this Leeds is as asual, even these days, a frustratung team to follow. I cannot tolerate their inconsistency. They should, on the bases of what I have seen, be running away with this league. They dominate games by up to 80% and dominate Derby but either just win or lose as they did against Derby and Northampton(Tues).
27 Nov 2008, 20:07 pm
#654 KingPaul: I think we should hire some of those Ikey/Matie cheerleaders to help teach us to sing at the Bok games. We are so kak compared to everyone else.
I can just hear it “Mevrou Van Wyke. Kom Slaap By My …..”
Much better than Ole Ole Ole.
27 Nov 2008, 20:08 pm
#656 carol: *******.
27 Nov 2008, 20:09 pm
#657 ET: Killing me. Northampton best example of that.
I think it’s God’s way of keeping me humble. (Along with the Boks).
27 Nov 2008, 20:10 pm
#652 julz:
I am not solving any problem I am just revealing the inconsistency of your argument. I bet you did not make a noise when that argument, of merit selection, went in your favour prior to 1992.
27 Nov 2008, 20:11 pm
#658 SodaJoe: When I was a the test against the AllBlacks I heard a good deal of “stamp jou boude lam…”
27 Nov 2008, 20:13 pm
#662 KingPaul: And then the ref blew ….
27 Nov 2008, 20:14 pm
I am out of here.
See you through the window.
27 Nov 2008, 20:15 pm
#660 SodaJoe:
Then to hell with god then. Joking if you are offended or anyone else for that matter.
Hey though you scare me because almost eveyday you reveal that you like things that I too adore. The latest being “God save the Queen” I watch F1q racing always hoping that the anthem will be played. I think in both our cases it is because it was our original anthem and I was rooted in the Anglican church.
27 Nov 2008, 20:17 pm
#617 ziyaad:
What would be the point in copying them anyway? Unfortunately racial prejudice exists…and you would be right in many instances….but why stoke the fire…even if you feel hurt.
There were “coachless” times when kikked the ball too many times from promising field positions and launched too many aimles up-and-unders. We also tried to do too much too soon with too much individuality and couldn’t seen to hang onto the ball for any length of time without it being turned over – players wre often isolated. Some of this you can blame on the game plan and coaching – all three and not just PDV!
27 Nov 2008, 20:19 pm
#660 SodaJoe:
Mate you are missing Thanksgiving and I am now off to enjoy it with some of my many SA friends here in Philly. Enjoy your stay there in England.
27 Nov 2008, 20:21 pm
#655 carol:
CM, Leeds is a touchy point with those of us who have been with them since the days of Billy Bremner and his band of merry brothers of the late 60s-early 70s and then beyond.
27 Nov 2008, 20:25 pm
#661 ET:
Why do you want to paint me on one side? Peace, Brother. I was a lightie then and certainly did not support any actions taken by the government of the time!
It is time to move forward, and the way forward is not the way back (racial descrimination insitutionalised by law.) I have yet to “win” an election with my vote, though you may have….
27 Nov 2008, 20:27 pm
Did I read that correct. The boks are a better team than the All blacks?
I dont think so.
Who won the tri Nations?
Does not matter what the score is against England 10 points better or 50 points better.
IMO, All blacks are a better side than Boks right now.
It may change next year.
27 Nov 2008, 20:33 pm
#670 CoachPete:
Keo being over zealous once more and putting forth his opinion as fact!
I have to agree, sadly…..though I have high hope after the last game…especially if we put Steyn at fullback and find a place for Jaque!
27 Nov 2008, 20:41 pm
#669 julz:
I am not pointing a finger specifically in your direction but very bmany ,like you benefited from what was wrongly done. And the wrongs of the past must not only be done but must be seen to be done for the word merit to ever have a meaning.
Policies like AAction, though not supported by me is just a small attempt at correcting those wrongs and no one who previously gained by horrid policies of the past should ever complain about this small gain now by ,for example PdV.
You are lucky you at least voted. I have never yet ever voted. And I am told that I am very educated.
27 Nov 2008, 20:55 pm
#672 ET:
So what is your plan for moving forward as a nation and healing the ills of the past? AA and BEE is driving a lot of skilled people from our shores, amd I may be one of them (though the primary reason is violent crime). I’m a civil engineer with 10yrs experience with the very skills the government says are desperately needed (water, sanitaion, housing…..) Why do you believe I’m so much better off as a result of the racial laws of the past? If I’d been born to the same parents in Australia for instance, would I not have enjoyed a similar quailty of life?
27 Nov 2008, 20:57 pm
Sorry CoachPete, are we chasing you away with this non-rugby political discussion?
27 Nov 2008, 21:23 pm
#612 JL1:
where is the truth, that he was not a merit selection, you of that opinion too, while others are saying he could become the best Springbok coach ever, even better than Mallet, now how many of you and the bees knees of rugby kenners over here are going to be acknowledging that much?
Would be a nice little scenario to have every negative negating tear down thread and post on here over the past twelve months displayed in say a years time from now, when perhaps by then the Springbok team is playing better rugby than it has since readmission, and these excruciating debilitating negating drum boxes will still most likely be churning out the same old nonchalant beat.
27 Nov 2008, 21:35 pm
#675 inchanga:
It was stated by Hoskins at the anouncement of his appointment. Not to say his selection had no merit, and that he might not become a great coach. His selection was a political one nonetheless. HM had better credentials, experience…etc
27 Nov 2008, 21:51 pm
#625 ziyaad:
You out there?
Drop us a mail when you have a chance: adielh AT hotmail DOT com
27 Nov 2008, 21:57 pm
The presidents (political) council elected a technical committe, of their choice, to evaluate the Bok coaching candidates
The criteria were agreed by all
PdV was the technical committees choice
Certain members of the presidents (political) council would not accept the technical committees recommendation and forced the matter to be put to vote
PdV won presidents councils vote
By my summation: As PdV was the choice of the technical committe he was the merit selection
27 Nov 2008, 21:58 pm
#676 julz:
HM would have been a backward step, or at best sideways, PdV is most definitely a forward one, contrary to what most deadbeat bloggers on here believe
The council voted 10-9 (something in that vain) in favor of PdV, twice, so where is the political appointment, Hoskins wanted HM and lost, so out came the other underhanded quote.
27 Nov 2008, 22:03 pm
My opinion is that the Boks when they play to their potential are the best, however they dont do it often enough.
The All Blacks are by far the most consistent side in the world, how often do you watch the All Blacks and think “i wonder what team will turn up today” you dont because they are so consistent.
Its tough because what do you want? to literally be the best and perform only sporadically or be a close second but produce consistency that allows you to win more games?
Its tough the arguement could go on forever, but as a scotsman i am under no illusion that the Boks and the All Blacks are the two best sides by a mile in the world at the moment.
27 Nov 2008, 22:05 pm
#679 cucabara:
I’m not punting for either candidate! All I wish for is merit selection. I’m not a fan of HM’s brand of rugby, neither Jake White’s, inspite of him winning the WC.
27 Nov 2008, 22:06 pm
I question the motives of those members of the presidents council who would not accept their elected technical committee’s recommendation (based on criteria agreed by all)
27 Nov 2008, 22:08 pm
Had Heyneke won the presidents council vote (after not being the technical committees choice) he could then be classed as a political choice.
27 Nov 2008, 22:10 pm
#680 dquinn25:
those highs awesome……then we hit the ground with a thump and the daggers come out….only to be spellbound one more….Tough choice I agree!
27 Nov 2008, 22:13 pm
#682 saffa_guy:
do you know what the vote split of the technical committee was?
27 Nov 2008, 22:18 pm
#674 julz:
No its ok I had to leave for a bit.
I also think Steyn is a 15 and should be played there for the sharks, but i think Stephan is still with the sharks.
27 Nov 2008, 22:21 pm
#680 dquinn25:
They are very consistant however they do have some problems at the world cups, and for that reason, even though they are a great side, there have beeen some questions about them winning when it counts
27 Nov 2008, 22:22 pm
#686 CoachPete:
Who would you pick, Adi or Jaque or neither?
27 Nov 2008, 22:28 pm
That is a tough one
I have to say Adi has really played well for the boks this year.
The combination of Jdv and Adi has also been good.
However in saying that, the 2 current centers appear to hold on to the ball a lot and it doesnt get to the wings too much especially our world class wing Habana
If i I had to take a center who is going to make space for his wings and then distribute it to them, Fourie gets the edge at 13 .
The question is do you move adi to 12 (he is a better 13) and drop Jdv or do you drop adi and play jdv at 12 still?
27 Nov 2008, 22:32 pm
In saying that, I believe Adi will stay in starting 15 not only due to his good play a center, but sadly for other reasons
27 Nov 2008, 23:28 pm
The Springboks are a better team than the current All Blacks – and Saturday’s Test against the Poms at Twickenham will prove it.
Rubbish Keo.
“One thing New Zealanders love to do is talk up their All Blacks. It is something those in the northern hemisphere also take great delight in – that is talking up the men in black.”
Keo and what is your post just done,talked up the Boks.Why shoulnt a Kiwi talk up there own team,its called faith.
28 Nov 2008, 00:02 am
#87 Puma:
“You won it in 1987 with out SA even being there so you cant even call yourself champs by not playing us then now can you.”
Well Puma,how is it?We didnt play you guys in 2007 so whats the difference?
28 Nov 2008, 00:16 am
#678 saffa_guy: I seen an interview with Heyneke and he was very gracious saying that the candidates applied and the best man for the job was hired. There were no sour grapes, no political inferences he just accepted the decision for what he felt it was.
#692 Hurricane: the difference is you were there in 2007 and got beat in the QFs, SA didn’t get a chance in 87.
28 Nov 2008, 00:17 am
#116 Big Hit:
Why not all you do is go back 21 years
28 Nov 2008, 00:21 am
#693 Big Hit:
Big Hit,how cares if they didnt get a chance or not,NZ would have beaten SA if they were there.Why should world rugby stop for a nation that didnt care about human rights? Why should anyone belittle NZs RWC win? You are the same,belittle anything we have achieved. RWC win is cos SA wasnt there,any of our wins against test teams is cos the opposition didnt have a full strength team
28 Nov 2008, 00:24 am
#680 dquinn25:
NZ and SA the 2 best sides in the world at the moment? How come?
NZ is the #1 team,but SA have come last 3 years in a row against OZ and NZ in the tri nations. Their is no country mile between any of these 3 teams but going on 3 years worth i rate OZ better than SA,just my opinion
28 Nov 2008, 00:29 am
#695 Hurricane: hold up, as I see it you guys are the ones doing the belittling of SA’s win. And I do give credit to NZ for wins, they beat France in Paris a couple of years back when France were good and beat Wales by a point in ’04 when Wales were good and they beat the best Ireland had to offer when they were on a high. So its not true to say I don’t give them credit for good wins.
28 Nov 2008, 00:30 am
#696 Hurricane: most up here rate Aus as the weakest of the 3N in spite of the tri nations table, the Boks or the ABs is the scalp they want the most.
28 Nov 2008, 00:38 am
#34 Pietman:
That’s really interesting. I’m based overseas so didn’t get that. Would loved to have watched it. I’m of a similar opinion but didn’t know other greats like Joost were too. Feels good to know that.
28 Nov 2008, 00:39 am
#123 Puma:
Puma,you beat the Cavaliers in SA.
Of the Cavaliers only about 5-6 of those players were in the ABs of 1987.Most of the Cavaliers recieved a Ban for going against the wishes of NZRU to tour SA.So NZ picked new ABs this is why they were called the Baby Blacks,these were the ones that won the RWC not the cavaliers.And another thing,the games were played in NZ and OZ,not SA so you know how many times you guys complained about travel being the reasons to losing,this year would not have beeb different
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