Comments on: Boks under achieve in 2008

By: Hurricane

Hurricane — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:01:46 +0000

#716 CraigE: "Why PdV wanted to mess with a formula that worked in the world cup is, I think, the thing confused the public and the players. This was proven in the Tri-Nations by the 4 losses we suffered. That was wrong." CraigE i dont know what you are saying here but look at 2006-2007 Tri nations and tell me,where did Jake Whites coaching get him.His coaching worked in RWC cos look at the opposition.Easy,works against 8th and 7th placed IRB ranked teams but against NZ and OZ and France it hardly ever worked

By: hater

hater — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 11:50:34 +0000

#707 ziyaad: Thanks for the posts. Now its easier for me to see who the racists are. They are the ones whose nerves were bothered by your last line. I am gunning them. They must come out and say its not true, but none have. Because it is. Their minds cannot give Pdv a chance or credit, cos their eyes cannot see past his skin.

By: hater

hater — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 11:44:36 +0000

#716 CraigE: and you are actually in love with jake white.

By: hater

hater — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 11:43:27 +0000

#720 bok2007: You're stupid too. Go read it again.

By: hater

hater — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 11:42:38 +0000

#723 ARK: You're stupid. Go read it again. You've been fed the drivel the newspapers and the keo boys feed you, and you can't see straight. Your comment confirms that you are the racist not Ziyaad. He is just trying to make you take off your rose tinted glasses.

By: hater

hater — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 11:38:40 +0000

#610 julz: Ziyaad was absolutely right with that last comment. It was the best comment of all three the posts. Because its the truth! You know too. You don't seem to think that he is wrong with the comment, just that he should not say it. Well he should. It's about time people admit that that is the real problem people have with Pdv and his ideas.

By: Nils

Nils — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 11:31:43 +0000

“The Springboks are a better team than the current All Blacks – and Saturday’s Test against the Poms at Twickenham will prove it.”

Keo, I know you are a bit out of touch with reality after Boks brilliant performance in London. There is a very simple and cheap cure – just whisper quietly before/after breakfast ZERO TO NINETEEN, and common sense will slowly return to you.

By: cab

cab — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:53:21 +0000

#721 ziyaad:
of course you can, Schalk burger should never be dropped.
he gives his very best in every single game, until that sort of committment dies down, why would you even contemplate in doing such a thing? His tackle count and workrate is phenomenal for 80 mins. that substituion of Burger was correctly criticised, it was very poor one.
Matfield is a different story, since it is arguable whether sometimes he rests on his laurels, but Burger never ever gives less than his level best with that Jersey on.

By: ARK

ARK — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:51:17 +0000

#95 ziyaad: Sorry Ziyaad but you quite simply are comparing Jake Whites success with PDV. You stating you are not is irrelevant your whole article is doing just that. Shame on you for belittling our World Cup victory and the magnificent performance of the whole squad, management and players. Gary Player famously responded when someone told him he was lucky; Its funny, the harder I practice, the luckier I get. South Africa won the world cup because they were the best prepared side going into the tournament, The All Blacks were not. That is why we had the luck go our way. It is very easy to manipulate the facts to suite your point of view as you have done. I found your article very subjective and your opinions righteous and arrogant and the give away at the end racist.

By: ziyaad

ziyaad — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:45:36 +0000

#720 bok2007: Show me where I do that. And show me how all my posts are race-related. Actually don't. I don't have time for you.

By: ziyaad

ziyaad — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:43:59 +0000

#710 kesbok: Matfield, on his performances this year, would not be a tie-in for our Tri-Nations counterparts. Burger would never play openside flank for New Zealand or Australia (although they may make room for him at blindside, but then again, I do not question his talent, I question his ability "in the role of fetcher and a linking man"), and Fourie Du Preez has been poor throughout this year. However, the public see these players as indispensable, and despite their poor performances, they simply cannot be dropped. Remember the outrage when Burger was substituted against Australia? My point is that you cannot blame a coaching staff for that.

By: bok2007

bok2007 — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:42:21 +0000

Ziyaad. All you post about are race related posts defending PDV then have the temerity to call other bloggers racist and race obsessed!?

By: ziyaad

ziyaad — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:38:29 +0000

#715 husky:

No, I didn’t see it. But I can’t agree that statistics are unreliable. Of course, statistics are not the only means to demonstrate a point, since there are always variables to consider. An obssession with figures and statistics is why Western Province consistently choose a Craven Week team with the 22 guys who fastest, strongest and biggest, with little consideration for skill and finesse. However, in the long run, statistics do reveal much about particular issues. Who can deny that South Africa’s record (AND FORM) prior to the WC was worse than New Zealand? And I used statistics to back that up. See what I’m saying?

On the rest of your post, you take my use of historical evidence, the issue of race and statistics out of context. I’m not complaining about past seasons, I tried to put it into perspective to make particular points.

- We were not the best team after the WC
- Our most experienced squad ever too did not mean we were much better than before.
- Australia have improved under Deans
- New Zealand have not lost out much in terms of the match 22 they can field.

Moreover, I made the point that we should embrace PdV’s new style (for a number of reasons), and then, in my only reference to race, I questioned the overwhelmingly negative responses about the coach.

By: ziyaad

ziyaad — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:25:23 +0000

#716 CraigE:

A rather stupid and immature opening to your post.

Yes, the coach is accountable for the game plan, strategy, etc., but how can the coach be accountable for a player kicking the ball out on the full, or spilling the ball 2metres from the line?

And the rest of your post… well, had you read my posts properly, you’d have realised I’ve dealt with that already.

By: cab

cab — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:45:08 +0000

on the PdV/Meyer selection, PdV was correctly selected and won the vote.
so far as merit or deservedness, one has to look at their coaching records.
PdV’s highlight was guiding the U21 Boks to RWC success.
HM’s highlight was having coached at S14 level for many seasons with a successful franchise that was the first SA side to lift the S14 trophy.
To my mind, if HM was black and PdV was white, there’s be no dount who would be selected.

However, it might be argued that due to inherent racism PdV has not been given an opportunity at S14 level to show what he is capable of. Hence the appointment.

By: CraigE

CraigE — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:05:02 +0000

Ziyaad, is actually in love with PdV. He makes an argument for him, the same way my mom does for my dad when he has done something wrong. Maybe he is PdV’s forgotten love child.
Anyway…. Players are coached to do things by the, and wait for it Ziyaad, ‘cos this will astound you, coach. Therefore, the coach must be held accountable for things he does wrong, as well as praised for things he gets right.
Why PdV wanted to mess with a formula that worked in the world cup is, I think, the thing confused the public and the players. This was proven in the Tri-Nations by the 4 losses we suffered. That was wrong.
However, it has been proven, as against the Wallabies at Ellis and the Poms at Twickenham, that reverting to a more structured formula made the public and the players feel more at ease. That was right.
If PdV has worked that out in 1 short year, then he deserves more praise than is being bestowed upon him now, and we can all rest easy in the knowledge that he has figured out the best way for the Boks to play.
If, however, he chooses to revert to the style of play employed in the 4 losses during the Tri-Nations, he would have learnt nothing, which would be a great pity and sure fire way of losing his job as coach.
Let’s all hope that it is the former rather than the latter, as, I think, we ALL wish him only the best and truly want him to make a success of this opportunity. I know I do.

By: husky

husky — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 07:25:53 +0000

Jeez guys I can’t believe the hits this thread has generated but that’s what happens when history is re-written and re-written and re-written, sawing sawdust.

Ziyaad, I’ve said first time you posted your screed (did you answer?), I suggest you read up what statistics are used for and how much credibility reliance on them generates. My view: not much unless you are looking at rainfall or traffic or something. Even there, be careful.

Rugby is only a passing interest for me; my main focus is two wheeled sport (bicycle and motorcycle). Here, luck is ever present but seldom used as a point of argument. The rider/s focus on the track, their tactics and strengths, totally. Team management supports, keeps tabs on the opposition and adjusts the tactics accordingly. No one cares about statistics except to respect the opposition. Race is seldom (if ever) a factor as its first past the post. Lance Isaacs, Arushen Moodley, Nolan Hoffman, Seamus McCarthy et al have proved themselves.

So, rather than bleat on about race, history and statistics, look at what existing and previous coaches have done right and wrong; improve the right and eliminate the wrong. Easy ha, ha. Then strategise around your team strengths and the opposition weaknesses.

Finally the AB’s are the team to beat, no argument. They combine every facet, including importing players, a bit of strategic foul play (BoD & JS), working the refs, citings, the rules (ELV’s) and the IRB, with great rugby. Their Achilles heel is that they are so seldom put under pressure, particularly and suddenly by fired up teams they should beat easily and dodgy refs, that they do not know how to deal with it.

By: coma

coma — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 05:57:09 +0000

Morning all, Hey Jake, let me take the opertunity to congratulate you on this historic day. For those of you that don’t know, today, exactly 1 year and 39 days ago, Jake won us the World Cup. Thanks Jake!!!!

By: mindispower

mindispower — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 05:51:38 +0000

I agree with the positivity and the rating of the players but you have been smoking some really bad majat my friend. We have always suffered a national identity crises which has carried over to our rugby. No my friend, we are not AB quality…but I do want to beat them everytime!

By: poppa69

poppa69 — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 05:01:07 +0000

#100 Puma: yeah but Puma, when England beat france in that semi final, they actually had a SA reffing the game who policed the french infringements… surely while you and your family were screaming for the AB’s to take a drop in that last 20 minutes you were also shouting at the referee (Wayne Barnes) for not giving at least one of the obvious infringements ??? surely a penalty should have been forthcoming… or the fact that before McAllister tryed his droppie attempt from near halfway, that the ref had called advantage, indicating NZ would get a penalty ?? which was never forthcoming….tell me, a drop goal attempt from 50 metres , do you
consider that a fair advantage ???

Its all good to blame the Ab’s for dumb play, I agree with you, but also the refs blind incompetance should not be forgotten.. how would the majority of SA supporters feel if it was them on the end of that reffing performance… I knwo you have to play to the ref, but then again, thats why it was so hard to win in SA before the apartheid ban, because they were shocking home town refs too…

NZ were simply reffed out of that 1/4 final, nothing more nothing less… and then everyone labels them chokers… if you can honestly look at the 1/4 final and say the game was a fair, even game of rugby, then I will start to watch soccer…