Ref, Test coaches to meet
12 Jun 2009
The Lions and Springbok coaches will meet with referee Bryce Lawrence ahead of the first Test to discuss game management.
The tourists have struggled at the breakdown and their players and coaches believe it is down to interpretation of the laws. British & Irish Lions head coach Ian McGeechan confirmed he will be meeting with Lawrence next week to ensure there is no confusion come the Test at King’s Park.
‘Gats [Warren Gatland] and I will be seeing Bryce sometime before the Test as will Peter de Villiers and Gary Gold,’ McGeechan told keo.co.za. ‘I don’t understand why they stopped these meetings because the communication between the referees and coaches is so important before a big game. You need that communication so you can adapt accordingly. Certain things are different from ref to ref.
‘Last year we spoke with the South African coaches and then spoke with [IRB referee chief] Paddy O’Brien who agreed that these meetings with the referee could be useful if there were issues to be discussed.
‘I’m not sure when we will have the meeting next week, but I know it will be a joint meeting with the South African coaches.’
The Lions struggled against the Cheetahs at the breakdown last Saturday and both captain Paul O’Connell and Stephen Ferris told this website the referee’s management of this area was flawed.
McGeechan believes his charges have improved but at the same time he wants to ensure the players and referee are on the same page.
‘We were pretty good in this area on Wednesday against the Sharks,’ he said. ‘If you have that much possession, you’re bound to concede a few turnovers. The stats will show we got things right most of the time and when we got it wrong, part of it was to do with interpretation and communication with the ref.’
News that Springbok flank Schalk Burger has been ruled out of the first Test with a calf injury is a massive boost to the Lions who will head into this game as underdogs, especially at the breakdown.
McGeechan, however, chose to play down the loss of Burger as the hosts should still provide a formidable challenge.
‘We’re just trying to get things right in these provincial games before we worry about the Boks. The Boks are in good shape and we have a tremendous respect for what they are and what they’ve achieved but at the moment we’re just trying to get ourselves into a position where we can be as competitive as possible for that first Test.’
By Jon Cardinelli
43 Comments
12 Jun 2009, 11:26 am
oh dear god no, not bryce lawrence.
12 Jun 2009, 11:26 am
vital
12 Jun 2009, 11:34 am
Goog thing that. I don’t want to see this series spoiled by poor referring decisions.
Who can forget that game against Ireland. John Smit is instructed by the ref to talk to his players and whilst he’s busy doing that one of the irish boys takes a quick tap and go and scores a try which the ref upholds.
We don’t need a repeat of such things.
12 Jun 2009, 11:34 am
goog = good
12 Jun 2009, 11:58 am
O ****, at least he’s a SH ref. Who are refereeing the other two games?
12 Jun 2009, 12:20 pm
good thing
pdv yet to lose a match where he had a word in the refs ear beforehand!
12 Jun 2009, 12:33 pm
#6 ashley: proud supporter of province-the-BILions-tamers!!:
That is just bcos the ref is scared he comes back to speak more drivel hehehehehehe
12 Jun 2009, 12:34 pm
Thew first thing I would be asking for if I was Bryce Lawrence would be for a dedicated armed-guard unit and security vehicle with a higher spec than the Pakistani Cricket Board provide for their distinguished guests.
12 Jun 2009, 12:37 pm
#3 Jozi: …was O’Gara that scored that ‘try’, and i think it was O’Brien that reffed that game. And they beat us because of that try…
12 Jun 2009, 12:41 pm
What made that test against Ireland so bad, was that O’Gara didnt go for the try until the ref said, “Play on” whilst the Boks backs were turned. Directly after he had told Smit to talk to his players, pointing for him to do so immediately. Smit & Bakkies were slagged off by the commentators. It makes my blood boil!
12 Jun 2009, 12:43 pm
#9 DonkeyKong: Still fresh in my memory that….injustice gets me going it really does. I really hope there’s none of that this time around.
12 Jun 2009, 12:44 pm
#9 DonkeyKong:
No, not O’Brien. He’s just 1 of the many, many, refs ritualistically victimised by the SA public over the years.
On this ocassion in Dublin it was Paul Honiss. I know, I know, both bl**dy useless Kiwi refs. They start to all look the same dont they, I cant tell them apart these days.
12 Jun 2009, 12:54 pm
#12 BlackPanther: Whatever they do I don’t think they can ever be worse than a certain M.Goddard.
12 Jun 2009, 13:01 pm
I think you mean M.Blaggard.
12 Jun 2009, 13:14 pm
Anyone want to take a shot at the probable lions team to face the Boks in the first test?
I reckon Lee Byrne is a shoe-in.
O’Driscoll will be there.
Shane Williams was world player of the year last year so I reckon he will be there (also he has a psychological edge over Habana.)
Mike Phillips at scrummy after the tour he’s had.
Paul O Connel is the captain so I guess he has to be there
But who will the rest be? Anyone want to give it a shot?
12 Jun 2009, 13:19 pm
#12 BlackPanther:
aint got a problem with the nz refs, just a pity one of the best seems to have dissapeared, lyndon bray.
there are 2 that are very excitble tho and that is not a good trait for a ref reffing these sorts of games, the one was the poor bugger that had a drinking problem and told john smit to go speak to his players while the irish scored their wining try and the second is this oke who has a tendency to dish out yellow cards and effective ruin any semblance of a contest.
12 Jun 2009, 13:32 pm
#16 cab: Ha ha ha….I tend to agree.
12 Jun 2009, 14:12 pm
#1 cab: I say the same. Not a very good ref. So really pleased that the Ref and coaches can talk before the game.
12 Jun 2009, 14:22 pm
#9 DonkeyKong: it was honnis….i was at the game. Heartbreaking…but schalk got penalised like 5 or 6 times in that game and got a yellow. i blame him as much as i do honnis for throwing away the grandslam…
12 Jun 2009, 14:54 pm
#16 cab: Steve Walsh was the ref with the “drink problem”. He turned up drunk for a ref’s meeting after a night on the sauce (we’ve all done it haven’t we!). Sadly he has been cast adrift by the NZRU because of this incident, I thought he was a bloody good ref actually and it’s a shame he’s been treated so badly. Surely a man deserves another chance?
Paul Honiss was the ref who famously told Smit to “talk to his players” before giving O’Gara the nod to take a quick tap!
12 Jun 2009, 15:25 pm
Linston Manuels? Shaun Veldsman?
12 Jun 2009, 15:41 pm
#21 TheTackler:
12 Jun 2009, 15:44 pm
#21 TheTackler: Don’t forget Philip Bosch.
12 Jun 2009, 15:47 pm
#20 jonnymain:
a nod now huh ?
you forgot to mention ‘a wink’ as well.
Walsh was a decent ref, but a biased one. Watch the game he controlled betw B.Lions and the NZ Maoris in 2005. Embarrassing coaching of players throughout the match. Also his indiscretion with England at the previous RWC (?) was another well-earned blot on his character.
The alcohol-related incident that lead to his suspension was also not dealt with in isolation, merely the last but most publicised incident with the NZRFU. Im sure he’ll reapply in another 12+mths after undergoing some form of therapy, and he’ll be back. It could be the making of him.
12 Jun 2009, 15:57 pm
#23 Ed_the_Lion: Willie Roos?
#24 BlackPanther: Yeah he wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea as a ref but I thought he was largely a good one. Hope he does make it back after a spot of therapy etc. I just think the NZRFU could have showed him the same level of tolerance shown to certain players, eg Jimmy Cowan, instead of simply casting him adrift.
12 Jun 2009, 15:57 pm
#25 jonnymain: O bliksem. Willie Roos. Hoe kon ek hom vergeet?
12 Jun 2009, 16:10 pm
#25 jonnymain:
I think you’ll find Walsh had already received warnings, incl ‘last’ ones. Cowan has pretty much been given the same.
Lets face it, all sports, rugby included, are hypocritical in this sense. In fact, only in the modern era do we even hear about these things. In the good’old amateur days, major/minor incidents were merely swept under the carpet never to see the light of day again. Obviously ABs would reap most of those rewards, and did happily, but the same happened at Provincial and club level even. I can personally account for witnessing many Varsity A players in Dunedin getting the local constabulary to get them out of many a tricky situation. It helps when the coach (and, later, the Otago/Highlanders coach) is a local Senior Detective.
Im sure alot of this still goes on. In many ways, those Poms who got busted dabbling with the local felines in NZ a couple of years ago were just the unlucky ones. It said it all that when the story hit the press, they actually confused 2 different incidents of a sexual nature……on the SAME night ! Who is more guilty or innocent than the other ?
No, rugby is very hypocritical. How many incidents of domestic violence by Mr Lauaki, Sivivatu and Tuitupou et al does it take before they stop being selected ? dangerous ground, these ‘role models’.
12 Jun 2009, 16:12 pm
#26 Ed_the_Lion: I will never forget Willie after his disgraceful handling of a WP v Bulls game a couple of seasons ago! Dooooooooooooooooos
12 Jun 2009, 16:16 pm
#28 jonnymain: I have a few games I can’t forgive him for. Then There is Marius Jonker and J kaplan. My memory is to good. These guys will never be in my good books again.
12 Jun 2009, 16:23 pm
#27 BlackPanther: Of course, I bow to your superior knowledge of the Walsh situation, but I still wish him all the best in any comeback attempt!
The examples you gave of Dunedin Uni players getting the cops to help them out made me smile. That kind of thing happens where I live now all the time, locals with “wasta” simply need to make a few phone calls to influential people to get the law off their backs!
12 Jun 2009, 16:36 pm
#30 jonnymain:
Of course, I join you in wishing Walsh the best of luck. When he has beaten the bottle he will have time to then confront a deep narcisstic streak following which Im sure he could be one of the very best. Mind you, that is not something that seems to have held back the careers of Messrs Ronaldo and Mourinho.
I have seen much worse refs than Walsh tho. Current woefuls incl the likes of Goddard, Jonker, Joubert and Bryce Lawrence isnt that much better.
12 Jun 2009, 16:57 pm
#20 jonnymain:
yeah actually steve looked like a good oke, rough treatment for sure. dunno why he had to share his demons, am convinced andre watson was permanently pissed, u see the 2003 RWC final?
12 Jun 2009, 17:05 pm
#32 cab:
One of the VERY worst refereeing performances ever. Simply incredible that a person from a country who worships the scrum had NO idea whatsoever how to referee one to the extent that he almost singlehandedly presented the poorer team with a glit-edged hand on Bill. Now Im no flagbearer for the Poms, but if they had been deprived of the trophy by Watson that day – did he give 2 or 3 pens for scrum infringements in the final minutes ? – then it would have been a travesty beyond any other.
12 Jun 2009, 17:15 pm
#33 BlackPanther:
Watson was supposedly revered by all and sundry as one of the best, i’ve never really understood it, the only thing that he does have is a fairly good rappore with the players, but he always struck me as your favourite jocular uncle who’d be great to have a beer with, but was blind as a bat.
kaplan and dickinson are pedantic as hell (especially when younger) and dont have watson’s ppl skills, but great refs.
12 Jun 2009, 17:19 pm
the other one thats good is the poefta from pomgola, Wayne Barnes, but thats likely to rev the kiwis up no end, and our lot after the cheetahs dropgoal eindfluitjie.
12 Jun 2009, 17:31 pm
#34 cab:
I like Kaplan alot, and that Mark Lawrenson (?) is easily the next best Safa ref. Both are quality, altho Kaplan was extremely lax for the Lions vs Sharks the other day – one can only assume he was acting under instruction.
#35 cab:
Please, Barnes is a classic pedantic Pom ref. Also being young and inexperienced – he had only refereed Internationals for 7mths prior to ‘that’ RWC QterF – he is also a classic trophy ref who can help booking the big names.
The Taffy, Nigel Owens, is quite a good ref. Consistent, which is all you can ask.
12 Jun 2009, 18:06 pm
#32 cab: I did indeed! That was just a SH conspiracy to prevent England winning the RWC….. which didn’t work!
12 Jun 2009, 18:24 pm
#36 BlackPanther: I’m with cab I’m afraid BP. Barnes is far from the stereotypical Pom ref IMO. Owens on the other hand is one of the most pedantic NH refs, I’m not too fond of him at all!
12 Jun 2009, 18:30 pm
#36 BlackPanther: #35 cab: Seriously – you guys are too sad. Discussing the REF. The ****** REF.
Cab you’ll be shagging sheep soon.
Pinky – you will beating your chest and telling the world how wonderful you are.
You have both lost the plot.
Ok – refs try their best. With or without Dutch Courage.
No ref, no game.
And Jonny Kaplan is Mrs Chamberlain from Std 4.
12 Jun 2009, 19:28 pm
#39 SodaJoe:
erm, the article is about the REF. The REF !
My point is not the ref, God Bless em. Its you fellas ritualistically scarring anyone who controls any game where the Boks lose, with the ‘Cheat Brush’.
Y’know what ? I never ever used to give a toss about the bl**dy ref. Never. It was not until I started working with Safas and their insufferable labelling of all refs as ‘cheats’ that I even started to take notice of them. I seem to have been drawn unknowlingly in to the vortex and now find myself actually acknowledging their presense. Seriously, its a character flaw of every Safa I know. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAGH – maybe Im slowly turning in to one – is it too late already ?
12 Jun 2009, 19:43 pm
#40 BlackPanther: didn’t know you could also be this dramatic…
12 Jun 2009, 20:31 pm
#39 SodaJoe:
yeah u right, not good to blame the ref, but cheesus this barnes sommer reaches for yellows at the drop of a hat, i can handle anythng apart from refs who destroy the games with these yellow cards.
#40 BlackPanther:
f’kn hell, then you must be the only kiwi in existence that did not have a moan about Barnesy after the RWC? i mean father ted commisioned a two-thousand page dossier, there are still scribes from the south island pouring over it…
13 Jun 2009, 10:53 am
I am convinced you Kiwi’s live in this fantasy world where the AB’s win all World Cups, win the World Sevens Series, win the U21 World Cup, Super 14. Hold on its true AB’s do win it all All Boks!!!
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