Player 23: Proving a point
24 Jun 2009
Did any of the Emerging Boks advance their Test claims at Newlands on Tuesday night?
When the senior Bok squad for the Lions series was named, Zane Kirchner’s name was missing despite the fact that he’d been outstanding for the Bulls in the Super 14. Bok coach Peter de Villiers admitted Kirchner had been unlucky not to be selected, but said he had three players who could play fullback in Frans Steyn, JP Pietersen and Jaque Fourie (although none of them are regarded as specialist No 15s).
So Kirchner had something to prove against the Lions’ dirt-trackers last night, although he didn’t get off to the best of starts when he had a kick charged down that led to Keith Earls’s try.
Earl Rose was another Emerging Bok keen to show that he can excel at this level, but he had two kicks charged down and failed to pass on two occasions when the home side had turned over possession.
Jano Vermaak – who many think should be in the Bok squad ahead of Ricky Januarie – had a decent game at scrumhalf, but didn’t kick all that well from the base.
Do you think Kirchner, Rose or Vermaak deserve to be in the Bok squad, based on last night’s performance? Or is it unfair to judge them because of the poor weather conditions at Newlands?
Have your say, as Vodacom’s Player 23, below.
89 Comments
Pages: [1] 2 » Show All
24 Jun 2009, 09:47 am
Emerging Dragons!
24 Jun 2009, 09:48 am
For me the only one who shined was Vermaak. I think although initially shaky he came into his own. Was a little surprised by Kirchner, as I too thought he deserved a bok call up. Earl “Tigger” Rose was very dissapointing. His kicking and decision making were poor to say the least. He does not deserve to be anywhere near a bok squad.
24 Jun 2009, 09:49 am
I am not really concerned about just those three players.
I am also not so sure they have put their hand up for test rugby selection.
I do believe however should we lose players to injury or overseas we have very capable players in the wings to step in.
We are in a good spot at the moment.
24 Jun 2009, 09:50 am
In my humble opion Tigger Rose cost us the game too. I just don’t see him making the step up from S14 rugby, if that.
24 Jun 2009, 09:50 am
Do you think Kirchner, Rose or Vermaak deserve to be in the Bok squad, based on last night’s performance?
On last night?
Kirchner – no
Rose – no
Vermaak – yes
Disagree with you statement that Vermaak “didnt kick good at all”.
Vermaak dit very well.
The loosies were excellent and Sykes impressed me as well.
Then ofcourse, De waal saved the day and well done to Demas for scoring that try. Bjorn Basson also did well with the limited ball he had.
24 Jun 2009, 09:51 am
Pissant, totally agree with you. Just a bit concerned that Players like Rose get soo talked up by our coaches and clearly can’t deliver.
24 Jun 2009, 09:51 am
#2 coldwatershark:
Thats exactly how I saw the game as well.
24 Jun 2009, 09:52 am
#5 Supa 14 Kampioene!: Totally agree with you. I thought Sykes, Vermaak and Basson are definetly ones for the future bok squad
24 Jun 2009, 09:53 am
#6 coldwatershark:
Believe it or not I actually agree with Ryan (for once) on his article about burning players.
Wrote something about it elsewhere but its a bit long.
24 Jun 2009, 09:56 am
Can’t we enter the e-boks or similiar team in like the churchill cup or something?
24 Jun 2009, 10:01 am
#5 Supa 14 Kampioene!:
I agree. taking playing conditions into account and then out of the equation, Earl Rose was poor. At time he did a few good things, but Test player? Never. Kirchner was nowhere and gifted the Lions their try. I know he’s better than that though.
Vermaak should be a Bok in the coming couple of years. He excelled, even in bad conditions. I also thought Deysel had a great game. Loved it when he ran over O’Gara like he was a wet paper wall!
24 Jun 2009, 10:01 am
#10 Dantalian: They play in the Nations Cup (didn’t this year because of Lions game)
24 Jun 2009, 10:02 am
Rose No, Kirchner not just yet ( that foolish kick gave away a try), Vermaak almost there.
Heini Adams over Januarie any day.
Potgeiter outstanding.
24 Jun 2009, 10:06 am
#12 Simon: o right thanks, will have to check that out.
24 Jun 2009, 10:09 am
Vermark, as with the GLions vs Lions game is a bit out of his depth and wouldn’t cut it at test level. Rory Kocket was also found wanting in the sharks game, so looking at it now, Fourie stands head and shoulders above the rest…
The only other option is Ruaan and then Morne at flyhalf, not ideal but i think its safer than having either if those two in bok jersey.
24 Jun 2009, 10:11 am
Rumour has it next year there may well be Heinken Cup vs Super 14 champions playoff in Hong Kong…
24 Jun 2009, 10:14 am
Difficult to judge players in last nights conditions. But players that stood out despite the conditions imo.
Deyzel
Vermeulen
Potgieter
Adams
All of them made mistakes in difficult conditions, but where very good most of the time.
Vermaak had an average game in comparison with his normal high standards, and Kirchner has been better.
Players in this team that can walk into the test team:
Deyzel and vermeulen.
And the big question if Earl is bok material. Well he was okay last night like most of the other players, and like most of the other players he is not bok material.
24 Jun 2009, 10:19 am
No mention of Deysel, Vermuelen and Potgieter? For me they were the standout players and have a great future ahead of them in the Boks if our coaches don’t continue being blind towards the outstanding talent out there. Would’ve also liked to have seen Steggman play last night. Imagine a Bok loose trio of Potgieter / Brussouw, Deysel, and Vermuelen at no.8?!
Highlight of the match: Deysel running over ROG! Oh and the try!
The long and short of it is ZK, JV and ER had average games, making some crucial mistakes
Vermaak showed he’s not of international calibre. Adams completely changed the tempo of the game – his kicking was better than Vermaak and his option taking and service from the rucks was far superior. I’ve no idea why everyone rates Vermaak so highly. For me the up and coming scrum-halfs are Kockett and Adams. Would’ve been very interested to see how Kockett would’ve performed last night but clearly he isn’t rated by his old master.
24 Jun 2009, 10:19 am
The point about the Emerging squad is to secure the most promising players for potential future Springbok representation. This is assuming SA Rugby have registered this team with the IRB, just like the England Saxons and the junior All Blacks. This is especially important with regards to our most promising players with British passports, as England lie and wait like vultures to secure players like Barrett, Matt Turner etc.
The Emerging Bok team should be a stepping stone for the junior Boks as the gap between playing at junior level and then representing the Springboks is often several years. Our most promising youngsters play Vodacom rugby and don’t get enough international exposure. As this is a team that consists only of non-cap players, SA Rugby can still and should have a Springbok A side, which will act as a further step up between Emerging and full Bok colours. The A-side can easily tour at the end of each year and play against the A-sides of all the countries the Boks will face.
The whole point about having a succession of teams is to keep players involved in national structures. I feel fewer players will go overseas as this creates international exposure. The Emerging Boks can also do an end-of-year tour focussing on 3-4 African or South-American countries for example.
24 Jun 2009, 10:21 am
#11 Londonbokshark: Please keep Vermaak away from the Bok team. If anything Adams deserves to be ahead of him!
24 Jun 2009, 10:24 am
For the best “dive” pass Vermaak is tops, but on the night Heini Adams were much more effective and outplayed Vermaak.
24 Jun 2009, 10:27 am
Heini Adams should be the bok scrumhalf backup, he is Du Preez’s understudy and it shows he played better then Vermaak did.
I also liked the bulls tighthead, he had a good game. And on top of that both Vermeulen and Deysel should be in the bok squad as backup, they will definatly be boks one day.
Kirchner had average game, he is to slow for test rugby.
Rose has good timing and vision but lacks the basic skills of a flyhalf, like the ability to pass further then 7 meters.
Demas has played good in both games against the Lions, should get more S14 game time.
24 Jun 2009, 10:29 am
Get over the colour issues. Why didnt you mention Potgieter, Deysel and Vermeulen. The 2 locks werent that bad either. Better than Bekker i would say. Wian Du preez also held his own in the scrums.
The loose trio were the best on the field. They ensured we tackled and went forward and did all the things to keep us in the game.
People who after yesterdays game should be back up to the boks are:
Deysel, Potgieter, Vermeulen, Vermaak, Van Rensburg, Basson and De waal. Unfort Kirschner didnt step up and we all know that Rose should never have been there anyway!
Biggest let down is Morgan Newman. Looked completely out of sorts on the field.
24 Jun 2009, 10:30 am
PDV could turn public oppinion in his favour if he boots January and includes Adams instead, it would show he has some desire to select players that perform rather than players whose dads he knows.
24 Jun 2009, 10:33 am
#24 Breakdown Boy:
Actually it seems his married to this dad’s sister…
24 Jun 2009, 10:37 am
The e-boks were undone at flyhalf and inside centre. Newman is not a future bok and neither is Rose.
The forwards were great and best backline players were Adams, and Demas.
That natal wing #14, he looked like he could pack his clothes directly back into his talk back, he never looked like he wanted to touch the ball! Hell his shorts werre spotless white!
24 Jun 2009, 10:41 am
Earl Rose remains a joke, and Adams should be way ahead of Januarie in the order. Jano is FdP ‘understudy’ due to his S14 campaign and all the tries, so understandable for the moment.
Rory, what has he done wrong?
And why did Rose get to kick the penalty whilst De Waal was already on the field? – the easy one Rose missed?
BUT, what really sucks is the commentators @rse-licking – Skinstad saying that ‘Earl Rose had a solid game’ – WHAT????
24 Jun 2009, 10:42 am
Kirchner made a blunder but I think he still deserved to be called for the boks. I also thought Vermeulen, Potgeiter and Deysel were really good and hopefully we will see them in the bok team in future. Rose was average and shouldn’t make the boks. I thought kokkit at least deserved to play for the E.Boks.
24 Jun 2009, 10:44 am
I hope the golden lions gives Earl lots of gametime at flyhalf. He needs this desperately – and AP leaving is a blessing in disguise.
24 Jun 2009, 10:44 am
#27 RugbyRIP: Bobby has to get a set of balls his politically correct commentary is sickening. Please you can’t talk rose up when he hasn’t played well. As for Joel he sounded almost disappointed that the E.Boks managed a draw.
24 Jun 2009, 10:45 am
#26 Breakdown Boy:
Think that is a little harsh on Newman. He has a lot of potential although granted yesterday wasn’t his finest game ever. I think you have to take conditions into account when judging his handling. Rose on the other hand….his kicking was poor, his decision making was poor, he was turned over with ease and his channel was vulnerable on defence. I feel almost sorry for him that PdV has forced us all to watch his every little move. Of course he’s going to get slated, but if he’s as good as Div says he is he would’ve risen to the occassion last night. He may yet improve but from what Ive seen of him in the S14 I don’t think it will be soon that he plays for the Boks.
24 Jun 2009, 10:46 am
#29 Slappes: just as long as they don’t put him at fullback. He needs to get his kicking game up to scratch – drop kicks and kicking for posts.
24 Jun 2009, 10:47 am
IMO None of the above deserve a call-up on the basis of their performance last night. But yes I think its unfair to judge because conditions were difficult.
To my mind Zane Kirchner already earned his place in the super 14. He did himself no favours with that kick, but that aside his defence, his kicking and his positional play was good.
I thought Earl Rose mixed it up quite nicely, although he threw a few hospital passes, he produced some hair raising moments both for the boks and for the lions. But his rustiness showed, hopefully with Andre Pretorius going to the force he’ll get some decent game time at 10. But what was obvious is that he is not the solution in terms of place kicking. Even in these conditions he has to do better with his place-kicking. That means that if the boks pick him they have to have a back-up plan. That is an unwanted dilemma, with Ruan Pienaar being as consistent as he was last weekend. Despite all the dissenters I still feel the kid has a future. Provided the boo-boys don’t break his spirit. To some extent I think it is true that people place more pressure on black players and expect them to fail. Blame that on the politicians and the quota system.
I was impressed with Morgan Newman which is fantastic for province.
I think for me the stand-out performance was Jean Deysel, but he has to work on keeping the ball going into contact.
I thought Vermaak showed moments of brilliance, but his kicking game could improve as his box kick isn’t quite there yet.
All round, a good performance from the E-Bokke but not one that will have any of the existing 22 looking over their shoulder in my view.
24 Jun 2009, 10:52 am
I actually thought Adams was better than Vermaak when he came on, I also thought Basson, Deysel and Potgieter had very good games. And with back-up locks like Bekker, Danie, Steenkamp and Sykes the two Bulls twins will stay on their toes!
You can hardly judge Rose and Kirshner given the terrible conditions.
24 Jun 2009, 10:52 am
#33 Harlequin:
“To some extent I think it is true that people place more pressure on black players and expect them to fail. Blame that on the politicians and the quota system.”
There is only one reason that the eyes of the country are on this kid and that is because PdV has annointed him as the Chosen One on the basis of very little achievement. If there is added expectation or pressure it is all due to the fact that Div has hyped him to an unrealistic level. It is a level that is no way related to his talents as a rugby player. It may be unfair but it was Divs call. Nobody else gets special treatment so if Earl wants Snor to look out for him he’s going to have to get used to people scrunitising his game.
24 Jun 2009, 10:54 am
#33 Harlequin: I agree, the booing of Rose was unnecessary – and somewhat embarrassing.
24 Jun 2009, 10:57 am
#35 Thameside Bok fan: You have a point there, the “best player in the world”‘s case was not advanced by dull-witted statements of PDV, but as you say that is not really his fault. He doesn’t pick himself. And if you think colour is not a factor in that added pressure you are being a bit short sighted.
24 Jun 2009, 11:00 am
#35 Thameside Bok fan: And also if you think he’s the only player who has been given preferential treatment, I am yet to see Ruan Pienaar live up to the same title of chosen one in the 10 shirt, yet does he suffer under the same scrutiny?
24 Jun 2009, 11:03 am
#37 Harlequin:
Of course colour is a factor but it brings us right back to our dear old Div doesn’t it? He’s very keen to make colour a part of selection and it is wrong and it is stupid. If Earl Rose played as well as Gitts do you think any SA supporter would give a toss if he was purple with yellow spots and green hair? No. Why? Because he plays good rugby. Thats all anybody wants. Earl Rose is being given chance after chance after chance and sooner or later he needs to deliver. Div arrogantly taking him out of the (Golden) Lions squad to train with the Boks just because he wasn’t selected as FH is one of the dumbest coaching mistakes Ive seen in a long time. Rose is not that good and he doesn’t deserve special treatment. He’s got to get selected because he plays good rugby there is no other criteria that the majority of Bok supporters care about!
24 Jun 2009, 11:05 am
#38 Harlequin:
Ruan Pienaar was being rubbished all over the place in the first Test. On here, in the SA media in the UK media. Don’t tell me there wasn’t pressure. There is also a difference Ruan has succeeded at International level and he has a brilliant EOYT where he showed he belongs at this level. In addition he was the man in possession of the jersey. Earl Rose isn’t anywhere near that level and has no experience to back him up.
24 Jun 2009, 11:06 am
I was not a big Adams fan but lastnight the differance in class was obvious !! Adams service when compared to Vermaak was 100% better !! gues that comparing him to FDP was my mistake as seemingly none of our 9′s can come close … Well done Heini Adams u have a new fan
24 Jun 2009, 11:07 am
Based on last nights showing the players to stick their hands up were:
Deysel, Potgieter, Vermeulen and Kruger
not
Rose, Vermaak and Kirchener
24 Jun 2009, 11:08 am
#42 cab: Agreed 100% just add Adams for cover @ 9 imo.
24 Jun 2009, 11:09 am
would have liked to see f hougaard given a chance as I have always rated him as a 9
24 Jun 2009, 11:10 am
#39 Thameside Bok fan: About Earl Rose being given chance after chance after chance…I don’t know about that. You have to remember he was good enough at age group level to be a world cup winning bok. Under the lions they have shifted him around and never given him a decent run in the 10 jersey or at least time to settle. Then people wonder why he is inconsistent. Do you remember what Morne Steyn was like a couple of years ago when he was fighting for a place with Derek Hougaard. He was aweful, for the first time this year he was given a fair crack at the jersey and now he’s a bok. I’d like to see Earl Rose be given the same chances and see what he can do. Otherwise, I am in agreement with you.
24 Jun 2009, 11:13 am
#40 Thameside Bok fan: I have never heard anyone boo Ruan Pienaar. NEVER. Are you sure we’re talking about the same kinds of pressure here?
24 Jun 2009, 11:16 am
I thought the best players were Vermeulen and Potgieter. Thought Kirchner was well out of sorts and Rose got pass marks but no more. Morgan Newman looks a real prospect as well.
24 Jun 2009, 11:16 am
#45 Harlequin:
I think we’re on the same page here. I don’t doubt that he has raw talent we know this. What Im annoyed with is Div’s special treatment of him because I think the one person it is harming more than any other is earl Rose himself. Morne Steyn is a good example he’s had time to develop but he’s just put his head down and done it quietly, putting in the hard yards. Div isn’t giving Rose the same opportunity to do that. At this stage of his career Earl Rose is on merit a very very long way away from playing for the Boks at FH. That may change in a couple of years when he has had time to perfect his game but the place to do that is in the S14 and CC NOT for the Boks.
24 Jun 2009, 11:18 am
#47 jonnymain: The emerging boks winger – Bason I think looks super quick too. Liked his work ethic. Hell the Lions threw it away…
24 Jun 2009, 11:19 am
#48 Thameside Bok fan: I hear what you’re saying if I was PDV I would never have picked him for the squad. Jake White also had favourites. But it is unacceptable that any player should be booed, least of all by his own countrymen, unless that player has done something particularly heinous. And PDV should take some of the blame for that…
Pages: [1] 2 » Show All
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.