Losers can’t be heroes
29 Jun 2009
Once again the British and Irish are on a high in celebrating losers, writes Keo in his Business Day newspaper column.
There is no disgrace in losing heroically was the tiresome media reflection of a yet another Lions Test defeat and yet another Lions series defeat in the southern hemisphere.
Perhaps the time has come for the British & Irish Lions to tour Argentina or the Pacific Islands to restore a winning culture.
One of the reasons South Africa, New Zealand and Australia have a winning rugby culture is that defeats such as the one in Pretoria on Saturday are never celebrated. When a team leads 19-8, enjoys field position advantage and a 71% dominance of possession and still loses then there can be no heroes. Not in South Africa, not in New Zealand and not in Australia.
In Britain and Ireland this morning mortals have been cast as giants when instead they should be castigated as emotional dwarfs for their inability to shut out a Springbok team in free fall because of the lack of pedigree among the coaching staff.
Players run the Springbok team, but clearly every player still needs someone to put together a coherent game plan and to coach and manage the team.
The Boks, without this structure and guidance, played like individuals and not surprisingly against the playing limitations of the tourists this was still enough to win.
The indictment of the Lions is that they could lose from such a healthy position and the indictment of the Boks is that it needed a 55m penalty with the last kick of the game to secure the match and series win when the gulf in class is 20 points.
The Lions were gifted a one-man advantage within 30 seconds when Schalk Burger was sin-binned for a moment of stupidity and with it came a 10-point start before 10 minutes had been played.
The tourists, we know, have perfected the art of telling a losing story with such seductive appeal it makes winning seem cold and secondary. Who wants to win when you can lose and be immortalized?
The Springboks deserved the win because in the last 20 minutes the South Africans were the ones attacking and mentally their players wanted victory, whereas the Lions were content to settle for a draw and with it a drawn series at best with just the one Test in three to play.
Contrast the approach of the two captains in the final quarter. John Smit’s Boks trailed 19-15 and got an easy three pointer. Smit did not kick the three points to reduce the deficit, but attacked the goalline for five points and the psychology of a lead in the final 10 minutes.
Lions captain Paul O’Connell, with five minutes to play, had a chance to level the scores at 25-25 from 25m out or go for a try and a possible win. He opted for the kick and a draw and allowed the Springboks an 80m advantage from the resulting kick-off. Instead of defending their line, the Boks had the chance to push for victory from a kick-off that would transfer field position by 80m.
The Springbok last quarter substitutions also need to be put into perspective, as does the criticism of not starting with Morne Steyn ahead of Ruan Pienaar because of the former’s superior goalkicking.
Steyn, in the Super 14, averaged 75%, although he kicked at 80% in the last three matches. Pienaar, in the first Test win against the Lions in Durban, kicked 80%.
It was right to start with Pienaar, but it was wrong not to introduce Steyn earlier because Steyn’s line-kicking game is superior and so is his use of the up and under on his home ground in Pretoria.
Another substitution that has been lauded is that of openside specialst Heinrich Brussow, whose introduction coincided with the Lions getting slower ball from the breakdown, and in the last five minutes next to no ball.
Brussow, though, would not have been on the field had Brian O’Driscoll not knocked out Danie Rossouw with an illegal shoulder charge tackle and clash of the heads. Injury forced a decision to introduce Brussow; not any tactical appreciation of the match situation because it was Rossouw who was preferred to Brussow as Juan Smith’s replacement.
O’Driscoll should have been carded for the no-arms tackle, as should Andy Sheridan for his constant off-the-ball antagonism, especially when he punched Bok replacement lock Andries Bekker in the balls.
Burger was rightly carded and Bakkies Botha should have gone along with Sheridan for his charge on Adam Jones. There are two sides to every story and there were two sides to this Test when it came to what went on in those dark alleys we call rucks and mauls.
Brussow’s impact was as obvious as it had been in the first 50 minutes in Durban’s Test victory, as his style troubles the tourists more than it will Australia and New Zealand, and Morne Steyn provided calmness in the last-minute chaos.
The efforts of individuals masked an international of poor quality that appeared spectacular because of the closeness in score and frenetic finish.
There was physicality and desperation from the Lions in the first 40 minutes and the Boks in the last 20 minutes, and individuals like Jamie Roberts, O’Driscoll, Simon Shaw, Adam Jones, Rob Kearney, Victor Matfield, Fourie du Preez, Smith, Bryan Habana, JP Pietersen, Jaque Fourie, Brussow and Morne Steyn added the power and polish to the occasion.
There have been club matches with as much drama, but equally there have been club games in which the basics of the game have been as poorly executed.
Had the Boks lost heroically 28-25 there would be a national inquisition this morning. It is why we as a rugby nation win more than we lose.
We don’t celebrate mediocrity or losers.
Think about a Test played with uncontested scrums for the last 35 minutes and it pretty much sums up the 2009 British & Irish Lions tour to South Africa.
263 Comments
29 Jun 2009, 12:02 pm
Dragon losers! Boks winners!
29 Jun 2009, 12:04 pm
yip …gotto say that even though we are 2 up (hell that is fantastic) …. with this bok team we must be able to play a way way better game and not scramble a win….
29 Jun 2009, 12:05 pm
was waiting for someone to pick up on this. you can see it plain and simple in how many times they use the word ‘deserve’ as in ‘deserve to win.’ here’s a wake up call to the British – you don’t deserve anything, you EARN it. same problem runs through their whole society and it’s destroying them.
29 Jun 2009, 12:07 pm
Keo, you should change the word ‘deserved’ to ‘earned’. don’t fall into the pommie trap.
29 Jun 2009, 12:09 pm
Well put Keo. The Pomms are such sour puss losers. If we had lost it would have been a disaster and Snor’s head would have been on the line. (He should go, however, regardless of the outcome of the last test as the Boks are playing such a rubbish brand of rugby.) The Pomms should be pumped by atleqast 30 points this coming Saturday as Brussouw and Kanko will play.
29 Jun 2009, 12:12 pm
#2 Staal:
12 years ago we were 2-0 down at a similar stage and we also should have done better as world champs.
29 Jun 2009, 12:13 pm
Sure the Brits have a tradition of celebrating mediocrity.
However put yourself in their position.
They have to celebrate losing, it’s what they do best.
Uncontested scrums should never be allowed in test rugby.
There should be 2 props and a hooker as compusory reserves.
29 Jun 2009, 12:15 pm
#7 tight head:
i nogal find uncontested scrums a thing of beauty
..
it looks so … so …. so … gracious!!
29 Jun 2009, 12:15 pm
Keo one question…
Where in international rugby where you have the top teams playing one another, do you still see 20 point victory snottings?
Hell even the AB’s struggled to get 21 points clear of a lowly Italy – at home!!!
Hell we have a very good team but sometimes I wonder how we can expect 20 or 30 point snottings against the best the world, and in this case, the home unions has to offer…???
29 Jun 2009, 12:16 pm
I have no problem them applauding the efforts of their players and coaching staff, which was immense and well-deserved, but they are very bad losers and have not shown one iota of sportsmanship from the word go.
They wanted and believed they could win, which is fine, but when you dont win, you acknowledge as much. All i’ve heard is excuses.
29 Jun 2009, 12:17 pm
‘Players run the Springbok team…’
‘Boks, without this structure and guidance, played like individuals…’
Hit the deck keo, while you still can, Skoppie and his ‘posse’ are coming for you !!!!
29 Jun 2009, 12:17 pm
Spot on KEO!
Read it and weep you sorry brits!!!
29 Jun 2009, 12:18 pm
“Contrast the approach of the two captains in the final quarter. John Smit’s Boks trailed 19-15 and got an easy three pointer. Smit did not kick the three points to reduce the deficit, but attacked the goalline for five points and the psychology of a lead in the final 10 minutes.”
You referring to the incident when Bismarck du Plessis had a headrush and tapped the ball?
There’s no way Smit would not have gone for the three points, which at the time would have been the right call.
To be honest, I got the idea that Matfield started running the show around halfway into the second half because he was real prominent in decision making and always talking to his team.
29 Jun 2009, 12:19 pm
#9 PissAnt: December 2008 – Twickenham ring any bells??
29 Jun 2009, 12:21 pm
The behaviour of the poms is shocking. I remember how they whined after their tour to new zealand over the o driscoll incident the way their press attacked the kiwi mentality. Now they are putting on a repeat performance. Since the tour started they have attacked us in every way- stereotypes, economy, coach, politics and it has left a sour taste in the mouth. The lions played hard but they and their press have let themselves down. If I was sarfu I would not invite them back!
29 Jun 2009, 12:21 pm
Spot on Keo. I can’t believe how these okes are bitching about us and the refs!
They let 2 tries through from first phase without so much as a hand on the players (Pieterson and Habana). How do you expect to win with defence like that?
Secondly there was 30 seconds left and they had the ball and kicked it? Surely taking the ball in to your support, having a couple pick and goes waiting for the siren and then kicking the ball out was the way to go? Is it our fault they may be partially retarded?
Plus they were filthy off the ball so they must stop bitching, especially Jones, Philips and Sheriden.
To my count the lions have lost their last 6 tests, with this attitude they’ll keep that record up no problem!
29 Jun 2009, 12:21 pm
#11 Pietman:
i thought about having a go
but
even i already got bored proving that i know more about the game that my more famous friend, keo!
29 Jun 2009, 12:22 pm
#14 DonkeyKong:
I said top teams…
And is that the exception? Or the rule?
I remember many believing we will lose that match given our display against the Scots…
29 Jun 2009, 12:22 pm
Keo talks **** him and bosom buddy Jake have got a little coup planned up their conniving little opportunistic sleaves just like the underhand ******** got rid of Loffie in Joburg but too sh’t scared to do the dirty work himself,
Jake baled he wasn’t pushed, would never have cut it in the real world of ElV rugby just as his little swan song for the Barbarians proved as much, now all his little song and dance fairy godmothers like Keo and Gavin Rich trying their damndest to get rid of a coach who has a 73% win record in spite of all their bullsh’t propaganda.
29 Jun 2009, 12:23 pm
#16 I wanna be coach: ‘Is it our fault they may be partially retarded?’ he he he
29 Jun 2009, 12:24 pm
Keo you are a chop, end of story. Really is sad that just don’t get what rugby is all about.
29 Jun 2009, 12:25 pm
#18 PissAnt: Facts is, when we play well, we should beat every team other than perhaps the AB’s by a big margin. We did it to the convicts last year, to the poms, – if we get the right coach we will walk over everybody. SA has the best rugby talent in the world, we just need to use it correctly.
29 Jun 2009, 12:25 pm
PISSANT,
All Blacks put 19 past us at home last year.
We put 25+ over England
We put 40+ over Aus
Aus put 16+ over France
It happens relatively often.
29 Jun 2009, 12:25 pm
#21 yebo: ???? – wha
29 Jun 2009, 12:25 pm
This was a powerful Lions team make no mistake, we taken them in spite of almost shooting ourselves in the foot twice in succession now. This Bok team including its 3 coaches are way better than anything we witnessed the past 8-10 years
29 Jun 2009, 12:26 pm
I dunno.
Where some see a ‘celebrate losing’ culture
others mights see
some unrestrained gloating one.
They were two magnificent Tests, Boks winning with 1 of the Greatest Comebacks Ever, but the Lions were truly magnificent too.
Which is what made the win bigger and more special, no ?
You cant have 1 without t’other.
29 Jun 2009, 12:26 pm
#13 ratel: That tap and go from Bismark was plain stupidity! I understand he is a good player and strong as all hell, but please what has he done in these two tests to justify degrading the Bok scrum? But him on the bench, move Smit to 2 and bring back BJ!
29 Jun 2009, 12:29 pm
#6 PissAnt: yip… do not want to argue semantics here but 97 we played brilliant rugby…. lost because we kicked like me.
this team has combined the most caps ever! i just think we can be better than what i’ve seen so far on the pitch.
29 Jun 2009, 12:29 pm
#27 I wanna be coach: why, because he took a quick tap?
29 Jun 2009, 12:30 pm
#20 DonkeyKong: One look at Sheriden without his massive head tape proves this point!
29 Jun 2009, 12:31 pm
#27 I wanna be coach:
Yep, I still believe Smit is our best number 2. Its nice to have Bismark there too though.
Maybe playing prop will keep Smit going for longer and Lord knows we need him!!!!
29 Jun 2009, 12:33 pm
#29 DonkeyKong:
That was MADNESS by Bismark!!!
He still needs to hit form though.Having said that I believe Bismark and Smit are 2 of the best hookers in the world. We are very lucky!!!
29 Jun 2009, 12:33 pm
#29 DonkeyKong: No because he doesn’t do anything exceptional to win tests. And I still believe that winning scrums is 1/3 of what is needed to win tests. It was not a coinsidience that once we went to moffie scrums we started getting better ball and looked sharper
29 Jun 2009, 12:35 pm
#31 CenturionShark (aka LondonShark): You only realise how NB he is to the boks when he’s not there. What a leader. Probably the best captain the Boks have EVER had.
29 Jun 2009, 12:35 pm
Another deranged outburst from the bunker.
For pity’s sake man, you won: enjoy it.
There seems to be such anger in South Africans. It’s frightening.
29 Jun 2009, 12:36 pm
Losers can’t be Springboks.
29 Jun 2009, 12:39 pm
I know it is not very “sporty” to say this but what a nice sight to see so many red jerseys flat on their arses nursing some area of their bodies thanks to hard and solid defence AND NOT DIRTY PLAY!! The 3 point margin is not a factor- we won and at the end of the day that is all that matters.
29 Jun 2009, 12:39 pm
#25 skopskiet: Sorry what?! Hate to break it to you mate but our 3 coaches are rather shite. Period! Gold has coached a forward pack that is consistently one of the worst in S14, and is now the Bok forward coach. Muir coached a talented backline at the sharks that was as potent as odourless toilet spray. Snor, I think Panic mechanic is now more appropriate, is useless. Can’t wait till he leaves. Just hope that its before our players do
29 Jun 2009, 12:40 pm
Hey, Sheridan just saw a fly that needed a slapping.
Saying Brussouw would be less effective against NZ and Oz seems seriously wrong to me. He has proven himself against all the NZ and OZ teams in the S14, even beating McCaw at his own game (2nd year in a row!) If Brussouw gets his chance in the 3Nations, I will almost guarantee you he will become the International Player of the Year.
*phew* I gotta save this post to brag at the end of the year!
29 Jun 2009, 12:40 pm
#22 DonkeyKong:
We could not do that even before this coach.
#23 BULLET:
You took 4 tests results (3 from the Boks) out of 13.
Again, is that the exception or the rule?
29 Jun 2009, 12:41 pm
#28 Staal:
Look I agree we played brilliant rugby, but we still lost in 1997.
I am saying this “we should snot them by 30″ is a bit far fetched.
29 Jun 2009, 12:42 pm
perhaps keo, but any saffer knows how the B&I possie is feeling – just think of bafana and their games against spain and brazil. No-one expected them to compete against the titans of international soccer, let alone win but they were painfully close to winning both games. Nothing but good has been said about them. A little empathy goes along way….
29 Jun 2009, 12:43 pm
#35 Viscount Crouchback:
Lions – 12 more years boet
RWC – 2 more years boet
Now get back to your cup of tea.
29 Jun 2009, 12:45 pm
#41 PissAnt: Why? We missed 8 points and goal, and their try was cored when we were a man down. So that is a 15 point margin. Add the 3 by which we won to the 15, and you have 18. Already a fair bit closer to 20 (yea maybe not 30) I dont wanna go into the iffs and butts, BUT, we should beat these Lions by a bigger margin.
29 Jun 2009, 12:46 pm
#35 Viscount Crouchback:
oh please. 2-0 Mickey.
when do we see you again 2011?
29 Jun 2009, 12:46 pm
#27 I wanna be coach: Agreed I almost ran onto the field i was so upset when he did that! He does it fairly often for teh sharks and its cost them before! Test rugby is about discipline.
I think O’Connel is a kak captain, besides playing for a draw this week (who does that?) and not kicking for goal last week, I would like to take the blame off McGeeghan and onto O’Connel – he lost the series, no one else!
29 Jun 2009, 12:48 pm
#41 PissAnt:
It’s not just far fetched. It’s completely bonkers.
The tests have been won by margins of 5 points and 3 points respectively, yet Keo holds fast to this batty claim that the Boks are 20-30 points better.
I’m amazed at the lack of class being shown by the Keo chappies. They are not portraying South Africans in a good light.
29 Jun 2009, 12:49 pm
#26 BlackPanther:
“You cant have 1 without t’other.” And the reverse is also quite true… pity though that the Lions, their management and press don’t see it that way…
None of them are giving the Boks credit… All taking the “we threw it away – they didn’t beat us” approach… If they even just ackowledged the Boks for having been in the game you’d see a lot more of us SA supporters acknowledging the good things the Lions did and the heart some of them showed…
As someone said last week… the Lions need to take a leaf out of the Mils Miluina book of gracious losing…
29 Jun 2009, 12:50 pm
This article and 80% of the comments posted thereafter is nonsensical.
After the All Blacks , the Lions are the second greatest rugby establishment .
I expected higher from this site.
Shame.
29 Jun 2009, 12:50 pm
man ek gaat my nee eens steur aan die ingelsman nie.
29 Jun 2009, 12:51 pm
#46 bok1906: Ja O’Connel has struggled as a skipper. But I think he went for the draw because they were pap in those last 10 mins. The highveld altitude got them then, and that the managements fault
29 Jun 2009, 12:51 pm
In addition to being a poor decision maker O’Connel is:
Rude
Arrogant
A Bad Loser
Not a great role model at all. As much as O’Driscol drives me up the wall the guy has character and a rugby brain.
29 Jun 2009, 12:51 pm
#44 DonkeyKong:
I counted 6 mistakes, unforced mistakes, in the first 6 minutes of the match.
Our execution was piss-poor in the opening 40, and improved somewhat in the 2nd 40.
Test match rugby is about who handles pressure best.
We came out on top when the pressure was on, which is why we won.
Before this series even started I never thought we would see wins of more than 10 points in each test or until the series is clinched.
This weekend there is no pressure, where you might see things open up and a 20 point snotting, but that is with the series already in the bag, which means no pressure or far less pressure.
The pressures of test match rugby is far greater than Super rugby, which is why massive snottings is the exception, not the rule.
29 Jun 2009, 12:54 pm
I was at Eastwoods with a lot of lions fans after the game and I must admit the guys are pretty good losers, they took it in their stride, and you’d be surprised how knowledgeable they are.
Most of the people I met watched a lot of super 14 rugby on Sky and know a lot about the players and teams. How many Keo bloggers watch the premiership and top 14?
29 Jun 2009, 12:55 pm
#49 rugbygenius:
Well said.
The chippy, bitter articles posted on this site over the past week or so have been an utter embarrassment.
29 Jun 2009, 12:56 pm
#47 Viscount Crouchback: I believe that the Boks are that much better than the lions. Compare the class and experience across the teams (and by teams I mean squads) man to man and it becomes apparent. The Boks just need to click and keep their discipline then it will happen, especially if the lions fist phase defence is as bad as it was on Saturday.
29 Jun 2009, 12:59 pm
#55 Viscount Crouchback: Thank you Viscount. I just wish we could all try and be objective here. Call the thing as we see it !
29 Jun 2009, 13:01 pm
objective my ***.
29 Jun 2009, 13:01 pm
#49 rugbygenius: Whatever dude! Your statement is so pathetic it does not even warrant a reply.
29 Jun 2009, 13:02 pm
I thought both test matches were a great sporting spectacle and were a great advertisement for the game of rugby union. It may not have been the result I hoped for, but fair dues to South Africa.
Unfortunately, the whole series has been tainted for me by alot of the unsporting comments from fans and reporters from both sides. I’m worried that rugby fans are turning into football hooligans. There has been alot of arrogance and rudeness been spat around. If everyone could take off their green or red tinted goggles and just appreciate that the occasion lived up to the hype.
Articles like this don’t have much value in my eyes, the reporter misses the point and seems to be little more than a **** stirrer trying to rile the lions fans.
Alot of people seem to forget that this lions team has only been together for a few weeks. You wouldn’t expect a Barbarian side to beat a Tri-nation side. Nobody expected instant results when Robbie Deans took the Australia job, yet look at how Australia has improved, they are now serious 3N contendors. Yet everyone seems to expect the Lions to be world beaters in a month.
So enjoy your victory, but don’t get too carried away with yourselves.
29 Jun 2009, 13:02 pm
#49 rugbygenius: I TOTALLY agree the lions are the second greatest rugby establishment especially after 7 straight losses including 2 to the boks who hadnt played together for 6 months! *SARCASM*
29 Jun 2009, 13:02 pm
#55 Viscount Crouchback: And what do you call the bull$hit written in the UK press after each test??!!
29 Jun 2009, 13:03 pm
#54 bok1906: I watch as much as possible. But S14 is much more entertaining. The top is either good or poor, nothing inbetween realy
29 Jun 2009, 13:03 pm
#55 Viscount Crouchback: I agree, some of the comments from the press, bloggers and the like have been appauling. Its great to win, but even better to win with dignity. If you’re from the UK, I hope u knw that not all saffas are complete pricks – but alot of those that are, unfortunately have access to a keyboard and broadband.
29 Jun 2009, 13:03 pm
#59 DonkeyKong: Donkey , admit it my friend. You hear where I’m coming fro. It’s a bitter pill to swallow, I understand. But truth hurts bro !
Now in New Zealand – we don’t have this problem.
29 Jun 2009, 13:03 pm
“Losers can’t be hero’s”.
Keo.
Try:
- The Alamo.
- Gordon of Khartoum
- Dunkirk.
- Pearl Harbour.
- Khe Sann.
- Robbin Island.
- Eddie the Eagle.
Maybe even St Paul.
It’s not always about winning.
Sometimes it’s about digging deep.
29 Jun 2009, 13:04 pm
#54 bok1906: I watch both.
29 Jun 2009, 13:06 pm
#56 I wanna be coach: I agree with you, we are clearly not firing as a unit, and we are at least 15 points better than the lions.
#49 rugbygenius:
Who cares who they are, we haven’t played as well as we could have.
29 Jun 2009, 13:07 pm
Guys…
The Boks just won the 2009 Castle Series against the British & Irish Lions… Just soak it up and enjoy! Take a deep breathe and smile!
After not knowing who to play at 10 for the Boks in the beginning of the year, I say we are sitting quite pretty with both Morne and Ruan at our disposal! Let’s groom them and go win the TriNations and take it from there to the World Cup!
I am BOK-BEF*K today…. and I love it!!!
29 Jun 2009, 13:07 pm
#60 mbaxman93: At least the Bokke have played together ! Most of the Lions lads havent even shared a changeroom before.
Lions Rugby represents our sports potent history !
Respect them and give them their due .
In order of greatness
1.) All Blacks
2.) Lions
3.) Bokke
…..
18.) Fiji
…..
245.) Paarl Gym
…..
1007.) Zimbabwe
…..
2980.) Austalia
29 Jun 2009, 13:07 pm
#65 cane: Robbin (sic) Island? What kind of suppositories has your mommy got you on this week?
29 Jun 2009, 13:07 pm
KEOHANE MEMORANDUM
TO : KEO SCRIBES
FROM :
29 Jun 2009, 13:08 pm
#55 Viscount Crouchback:
Ooooooh and just for You Vice Count.
- Guy Fawkes.
P.S. your site would make P.G Woodhouse proud.
29 Jun 2009, 13:08 pm
#65 cane: I vote CANE to be a writer on this site ! At least give us one brilliant critic !
Well said Cane ! Thank you !
29 Jun 2009, 13:09 pm
#64 rugbygenius: Hey, who am I to argue, you are the ‘Rugby Genius’ after all.
Grow a personality mate.
29 Jun 2009, 13:10 pm
#19 skopskiet: Your wonderful coach inherited one of the best Bok teams ever. One that Jake built, despite the odds stacked against him. Why should the majority of Bok supporters have any sympathy for the pretender in charge now, when it’s plain to see he is out of his depth, completely?
You are always ranting on about racism so I’m surprised you support this fellow, or does reverse racism sit comfortably with you?
29 Jun 2009, 13:10 pm
But why do they get a French guy as a ref that can hardly speak English?
He kept on saying ” You know …”
It seems like it is the hardest thing to ref a rugby game. He refers the decision to Stu Dickenson, Stu takes his time to look at it from all angles, only for Bryce Lawrence to add ” you have to ask him whether the player’s foot was in touch? ”
SA refs by far the most competent.
29 Jun 2009, 13:11 pm
#65 cane:
Great post.
In fact, Keo’s rant rather brings to mind Heinrich Himmler circa 1941.
If one can’t see the beauty in sport irrespective of the outcome, then one is a troubled soul indeed.
29 Jun 2009, 13:11 pm
#70 Soda:
Sorry Soda, I was just trying to give a little local content.
Losers one day…………………well the world turns.
29 Jun 2009, 13:11 pm
#74 DonkeyKong: I will try . Just as soon as I finish growing my DAnie Rossouw beard..
29 Jun 2009, 13:12 pm
I wonder if it would be possible for Snor to become the most useless and most successful Bok coach ever, just like winning ugly, in 50 years no one will remember that he was kak, just the results…by supporting the Boks this is the best senario us AntiSnors can hope for..I’ll take it
29 Jun 2009, 13:13 pm
#50 Staal:
Nou praat jy!! ons sal elke wedstryd teen “Ingelse” wen al is dit net met 1 flippin punt. Saterdag sal dirt 20+ plus – tensy hulle nie ‘n span bymekaar gaan kry nie en die game sy toetsstatus gaan verloor!!!
29 Jun 2009, 13:13 pm
#47 Viscount Crouchback: Mate, get off your high horse. What you see here is cause and effect. The outright poor sportmanship shown by the Lions management, captain, players, press and (some) fans, not just after the 2nd test but throughout the series, has finally become too much. After the 1st test Bok fans were gracious, giving credit to the Lions team although being hard on the Bok team and tactics. What we got in response was complaints and excuses, not once did I hear a Lions coach or player give credit to the Boks.
After the 2nd test we’ve just had enough and the response you see on the forum is as a result of that. You boys love throwing around the term “humility in victory” but what about the same for in defeat. If you can’t be gracious losers you deserve all the stick you get.
29 Jun 2009, 13:13 pm
#7 tight head: I actually agree 100%, its not rugby without the scrum
29 Jun 2009, 13:14 pm
HA HA HA.
The saddest thing is they can’t even have the good grace to be “good losers”. Not that it matters, a loser is a loser. But it would be nice if the NH rugby players wouldn’t strive so hard to be like their footballing counterparts when it comes to bad sportsmanship.
My most enduring memory of the match on saturday… Seeing Ronan O’Gara crying like the little doos he is. He’s been an embarrasment to the culture and tradition of the Lions and he deserves to feel humiliated after his behaviour on this tour.
29 Jun 2009, 13:14 pm
#73 rugbygenius: puhlease
29 Jun 2009, 13:14 pm
#63 superbowljoel:
Thanks, chum. I know that not all Saffas are such boors.
Quite a few articles in the British press commented on the amazing hospitality and generosity of spirit shown by the Durbanites last week.
29 Jun 2009, 13:15 pm
#80 china:
He is already up on Nick Mallet.
He has 73% of 15 tests and Mallet ended with 71%.
You may just get what you wish for.
29 Jun 2009, 13:15 pm
#85 bokfan1: jealous are we bokfan
29 Jun 2009, 13:16 pm
Lets set the record straight, the greatest rugby Institution in the world is…. Drum roll….. Grey College!
29 Jun 2009, 13:16 pm
#77 Viscount Crouchback:
Ja- there’s a lot of beauty in this game. But it’s also a competition and NOBODY goes into it happy to accept defeat. Except the British. Your press glorifies defeat. Praises it and makes it seem even better than victory.
But like you Crouchie, your press are deluded and 2-faced.
29 Jun 2009, 13:16 pm
#87 PissAnt:
In fact he is on the same winning margin and only 8 tests off the great Danie Craven…
29 Jun 2009, 13:17 pm
“I can’t think of a test where we started so badly. We focused the whole week on getting the series in the bag and after that start, it seemed unlikely. Some harsh words were said at half time, but the praise came afterwards.”
Thats a quote from John Smit – to all those who say we should win with dignity, you are a bit confused.
This has nothing to do with the Lions (get over yourselves) the fact that you have to put together 4 nations to be competitive is a bit sad really. How about we make a Southern Lions team, the best of SANZAR and go tour the UK, wonder how that will play out??
We are judging ourselves as a rugby nation and if you want to be the best you cant be happy with mediocre performances regardless of the result. How you get there is just as important as where you are, its an indication of progress. These should be our goals for now:
- Win Tri Nations
- Break the consecutive test victory streak (we share with all blacks)
- Win the Grand Slam EOY Tour (not sure on the schedule)
We will need to improve to achieve that, and we will have to play better than we did here, so when we say we should have beaten you by more points we not saying the BIL are poor we are saying we are a lot better than uv seen.
29 Jun 2009, 13:18 pm
any cheese with that whine
29 Jun 2009, 13:18 pm
#63 superbowljoel:
APPAULING?
Sies! It’s APPALLING!
29 Jun 2009, 13:19 pm
#94 Dawn:
Paul O’Connell is APPAULING though.
29 Jun 2009, 13:19 pm
#76 Sheriff:
Hello Lawman.
Congratulations to your Team for The Series win.
I was hoping The Series would be kept alive.
How enthralling would the next match then be?
29 Jun 2009, 13:19 pm
#82 Meh: Could not have said it any better. They made their own bed…..
29 Jun 2009, 13:20 pm
#91 PissAnt:
If the Boks win the last test, he would be equal to the great Ian Kirkpatrick on 75% with Ian only coaching 12 tests and then it is just Nelie Smit (80%) and Cecil Moss (83%) in his sights (he cannot catch Oom Kitch as he has 100%)
29 Jun 2009, 13:20 pm
Loser’s cant be heroes….
But when your opponents behave like hooligans you can sometimes have the moral high ground handed to you on a platter.
As a Springbok fan this series was pretty much ruined for me by Schalks incident not to mention the general behaviour on the field on Saturday. Thank god we dont have to watch Bakkies embaressing antics again next week!
29 Jun 2009, 13:20 pm
To be honest, I am fedup with all this mud-slinging after the game. This should have happend, the BIL should have handed cards, blah blah blah. Just let it go, it happend, the consequences have surfaced…so be it.
What does interest me is where the Boks stand on current form. I don’t think that the BIL tour has had any bearing on our current form. They do not seem to be any measurement for us as an overall package. They did more than test us on the physical aspect of the game, both tests have been alot more physical than I have seen against any other opponent over the past 8 years or so. But we were not really tested on the strategic & mental side of our game.
This probably means that we need to wait until the TriNations to see if our national team has made any progress under PdV.
Interestingly the AB’s are in a similar situation having drawn the home series against the French.
Could it be the usual pattern of us rating ourselves as favourites for the 3Nations & then getting whipped in NZ & Aus or are we finally in a position to show true rugby dominance?
29 Jun 2009, 13:21 pm
#90 Vetkoek:
Of course – and the British are sad to have lost, naturally.
But this “victory is everything” argument is profoundly Germanic and barbarous. It’s only sport, after all.
You chaps wouldn’t be so hated if you introduced a splash of British fair play into your outlook.
29 Jun 2009, 13:23 pm
#69 rugbygenius: Hmm, Lions vs Aus/NZ/SA: Won 36, Lost 56. Against SA (including the pre 1900 tests) Won 16 Lost 23 (excluding next saturdays hiding). Personally I see France as a greater team than the Lions.
29 Jun 2009, 13:24 pm
#101 Viscount Crouchback:
f’ck off straight, are you over in SA at the moment?
I will personally drive you to the airport and throw in a departing drink.
there’s some fairplay.
29 Jun 2009, 13:24 pm
#92 bok1906: And go on to win back to back World Cups
29 Jun 2009, 13:25 pm
#99 ThePunter:
By moral high ground you’re referring I imagine to O’Driscolls cheap, high shoulder charge on Rossouw? Or perhaps it was Sheridan’s punch to the nuts on Bekker? Or maybe, just maybe you’re talking about the constant bitching, moaning, excuse making and lack of any form of acknowledgment or congratulations from the Lions on the Boks series victory?
What Burger did was stupid and he deserves a HARSH ban. No excuses.
But these Lions are a pretty disgraceful bunch, so even attempting to give them the moral high ground is ridiculous.
29 Jun 2009, 13:25 pm
#101 Viscount Crouchback:
Ha ha ha ha. Nice post. Reaching, but it amused me.
29 Jun 2009, 13:25 pm
#99 ThePunter: lets not mention sheridan, o’driscoll and all the other off the ball incidents carried out by the bil. these guys set the tone with all their *****……now they lose and are crying like little babies. if you cant take the heat then you need to get out of the kitchen
29 Jun 2009, 13:26 pm
#87 PissAnt: as I said I’ll take that outcome…no bones about it, like a good chicken bunny.
29 Jun 2009, 13:26 pm
If any of us SAffers went looking on a rugby forum on a Aussie, NZ or UK rugby site, we would also be antagonistic. So when guys like Cane and Rugbygenius stir a little, take it for what it is, some good old across-the-ditch banter. We’d all do the same… Play along, don’t let it upset you!!
It should be seen as a compliment that they spend so much time on SA rugby websites rather than their own
29 Jun 2009, 13:26 pm
And if you take matches vs. SA since 1900, you’ll find the following:
Lions 10, SA 22. I’m sorry but that’s not even in the league of being a decent team.
29 Jun 2009, 13:26 pm
#38 I wanna be coach: I know my maths and it says win ratio of 73%, go PDV !!!!!!!!!
29 Jun 2009, 13:26 pm
Ja lekker you British clowns, its going to be 3-0 next week and then you will be humiliated. Go home to your kak weather and take Stephen Jones and Payne as well. Dose
Good game though, just watching the replay and we deserved to win, if it wasnt for Schalks brain explosion (he deserves 8 weeks for it but he will be back, good on Brussouw to take his chance though) and Pienaars kicking we wouldve won comfortabely.
This weekend with Steyn, Fourie, Bekker, Brussouw in the starting line up we are going to run them to pieces. 3-0 boys, as predicted by all South Africans. Call us arrogant but hey look at the scoreboard
29 Jun 2009, 13:27 pm
in fact, i think it is only proper and decent that we take all these wonderful cheerful charleys straight to the airport immediately, indulge them and listen to their banter by all means even show them a bit of thigh if you are of an attractive disposition, but for godsake do what ever it takes to get them into a plane and out.
29 Jun 2009, 13:27 pm
Brian OD is getting away with murder.If one of our boys had done what he did to Danie they would have been cited for sure!
Buuuut, having said that if he didn’t go in on Danie like that, Brussow never would have come on. So indirectly, BOD lost the game for the Lions.
29 Jun 2009, 13:27 pm
I see Stephen Jones, in The Times, has rated the Lions players – man for man – higher than their Bok counterparts. Simon Shaw even gets a 10/10 (despite giving away a couple of penalties and loitering aimlessly at times). He’ll probably push for them all to be knighted when they return home.
29 Jun 2009, 13:27 pm
#89 I wanna be coach:
Did you know Sir George Grey, after whom Grey College was named, was also Governor of South Australia, and of NZ (twice).
A true 3N personality.
Perhaps we could rename the 3N …..the Grey Cup.
My home Town in NZ was named after him……in a round about way.
29 Jun 2009, 13:27 pm
#95 Vetkoek:
Viscount’s spelling calfoutis is APPAULLING!
29 Jun 2009, 13:27 pm
#94 Dawn: its monday, give me a break…besides, keo doesn’t come with a spell checker
29 Jun 2009, 13:28 pm
#101 Viscount Crouchback:
Funny you see our belief that it’s pointless to compete if you aren’t hungry to win as “Germanic and Barbarous”, whereas we see your “fair play” sugar-coating and acceptance of second place as a sign that the once mighty British Empire has fallen so pathetically low, that you have no alternative anymore but to clutch at the proverbial.
29 Jun 2009, 13:29 pm
#115 katman:
Yeah I saw the ratings. What a joke. VICTOR BOSSED THE LIONS IN BOTH MATCHES!!! No contest!
29 Jun 2009, 13:29 pm
#101 Viscount Crouchback: Spoken like someone for whom victory was never really on the cards.
29 Jun 2009, 13:30 pm
#108 china:
I prefer lamb!
29 Jun 2009, 13:30 pm
#96 cane:
You know the answer to that Cane.
The Boks will go out there to make it 3-0 while the Lions will want to show that it should have gone their way.
The Boks looked a bit flat during the game, but it’s only their 2nd game of the season.
And to win, we only need to score 1 more point than them.
Commentators kept on talking of a war of attrition…
29 Jun 2009, 13:31 pm
I really don’t like Andy Murray that weasel-faced tennis player.
And the Queen nogal says she’ll go to the final if he’s there.
Hope she buys her ticket like everyone else.
29 Jun 2009, 13:31 pm
#114 CenturionShark (aka LondonShark): hehehehe good and valid point. Even BOD couldn’t believe Rossouw was on instead of Brussouw.
29 Jun 2009, 13:31 pm
Well now I’ve heard it all Keo. You win more than you lose??
against who exactly.
Here’s a realistic breakdown of the Boks vs Lions on the weekend.
The boks were out run, out muscled, out rucked, out tackled,out scummed, out mauled. They were lost and made to look pathetic as a team in nearly every facet of play for the whole game. The Lions showed what ‘men’ really are and what heart is. They looked dwarfed in comparison to the ‘energy’ of the Boks- and the fear showed the Boks for what they really are at the end of the day.
Eye gouging, late tackling, with a win at any cost is a disgrace to what rugby represents. The supporters who lap up these oh so holow victories, like the farcical game of ‘footy’ in the WC final that gives them another bloated feeling of invincibility shows the shallow’s of their beliefs.
How do you say a victory deserved after that neanderthal burger blatantly eye gouges in full view of everyone, cheap hits to slow down the rampaging Lions as the ” Mighty Boks” dont have any other answers for them.
I know who I will be cheering for if the AB’s get knocked out this season, which could well be on the cards as their first two games are in SA so they’ll be open to usual food poisoning and tricks that is the trademark of the world champs.
29 Jun 2009, 13:31 pm
Such anger….
Such visceral, blood-boiling anger…
Why, chaps? You won – and apparently winning is all that counts. So why are you so angry?
29 Jun 2009, 13:31 pm
#49 rugbygenius: wtf you talkin about “genius” – The Lions have lost 7 internationals in a row now. How can they be the “second greatest establishment in rugby” when they have a record like Italy !!!
29 Jun 2009, 13:32 pm
#103 cab:
You being in France may make that a little difficult Cabbie!
29 Jun 2009, 13:32 pm
#127 Viscount Crouchback:
just let me know when you need that ride?
29 Jun 2009, 13:32 pm
#115 katman: In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
29 Jun 2009, 13:32 pm
#124 Dawn:
It’s a sad indictment on the current state of all things English, when even the Queen has to look to a miserable, sour, English hating Scotsman for a sense of pride.
29 Jun 2009, 13:32 pm
#129 cane:
lol, i will make a plan
29 Jun 2009, 13:33 pm
How can this hunchback come here and purport to be a man of letters and he can’t spell ‘appalling’.
Phoney.
29 Jun 2009, 13:33 pm
#126 captain fantail:
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. I love a bit of fiction with my lunch…
29 Jun 2009, 13:33 pm
#75 Inevitable: Well, the record will reflect 11 wins out of 15 games, at least the “useless” coach hasn’t lost against any northern hemisphere team including a combination of northern hemisphere’s finest players
29 Jun 2009, 13:33 pm
#114 CenturionShark (aka LondonShark): and what about Sheridan punching Bekker in his privates!!! I have to say all this whinging and sour grapes from these Lions has kind of spoilt this whole tour for me.
29 Jun 2009, 13:34 pm
#126 captain fantail: out rucked, out played etc etc…………but….we still managed a win….hahaha…classic, you must know how terrible the lions were…i love it when people whine…
29 Jun 2009, 13:35 pm
#127 Viscount Crouchback:
I’m sure Vincent is one of the Keo writers……
He’s just to ‘English’ to be real.
29 Jun 2009, 13:35 pm
Ag same old Negative Drivel from keo.As Shallow as he is Short.His immense Hate for the english Ensure that he will allways be Dishonest.OndeudderHand,he LOST whatever Little influence he Had when jake turned Snake and eventually turned Tail.
29 Jun 2009, 13:35 pm
#117 Dawn:
cafloutis is no laughing matter …. I have a cousin who uffers from a particularly nasty strain she is always on anti-biotics….
29 Jun 2009, 13:36 pm
#126 captain fantail:
O donner here’s another one …..
29 Jun 2009, 13:36 pm
#137 Sharksgirl: I agree with you, there was alot of dirty play from them too..o’driscoll was the worst of them all. I use to love watching o’driscoll play but after saturday i really dont like him, he is arrogant and has a chip on his shoulder. The British are bad bad losers
29 Jun 2009, 13:36 pm
#127 Viscount Crouchback:
Yeah I must apologise; we just have very high standards.
But if you want to see real anger, go to the Lions coaching staff.
29 Jun 2009, 13:37 pm
#137 Sharksgirl:
I love it. I’ve waited 12 years to hear the Brits squeal….long may it continue.
29 Jun 2009, 13:38 pm
#138 Martin: It reminds me of the Syndey Olympics. I happened to be watching the cycling (must have been nothing esle on!) and the British team came in 2nd. The Pommie commentator shouted out with unbridled joy “This Olympics belongs to England!!” The winner isn’t important in Englnd apparently….I suppose after years of losing they thought it was easier just to discount 1st place.
29 Jun 2009, 13:38 pm
#141 gunther:
Wrong!
Clafoutis is a pudding. Dessert.
29 Jun 2009, 13:38 pm
#98 PissAnt: Nelie Smit?, is that the same oke that destroyed EP rugby
29 Jun 2009, 13:40 pm
#109 chappy:
Chappy……………….I have never posted on any other web site.
Why would I. You Saffas provide everything.
Dispite the **** Keo dishes up……the Posters are fantastic.
Love them…or..hate them…..they are as real as it gets. (maybe).
29 Jun 2009, 13:41 pm
#116 cane: No I didn’t but thats pretty damn cool. Ja we could have a Grey competition. Are their any schools in Aus or NZ also called Grey? The Grey College in Bloem is unstopable. I think they have gone 48 games unbeaten? And had about 6 players in WC squad
29 Jun 2009, 13:42 pm
#126 captain fantail: And this comes from a supporter of the Angelic ABs! The very same team that ensured that when they played the Lions they took out the Lions game maker O’Driscoll, and in last year’s Tri-nations took out the SB’s key player John Smit, and please note the beatific Thorne only got 1 week ban, had that been Bakkies he probably would have been banned for the whole comp to protect your billy boys! Yawn, how pathetic sour grapes can be. Truth is the Boks played badly with players that were on the field only because of their reputation and not their form, and we still won! The ABs, did not even look that hot against the whipping boys of rugby Italy on Saturday! oh wait yes injuries, all ABs prefer the gold of the NH, etc. heard all the excuses already! I wonder who you lot will blame when you lose yet another WC and this time at home!
29 Jun 2009, 13:42 pm
Listen Keo, you little fuckt@rd
The Boks are not uncoached
Lets look at the two tests so far..
First test we were cruising and in total control
If PdV didn’t make all thos changes, we would have won by 20 odd points
This is not arrogance, it’s just the where that test was heading
PdV made a mistake, he admitted it
MOVE ON
Second test
We were cruising for 30 secs (even got our first pen) and then SB had a brainfart
Suddenly we were down 10 with 14 men and all the momentum with the Lions in what looked like an away match
Not many teams would recover from that and not allow the Lions to close out the game then and there
Certainly an un-coached team would never pull that off.
Yet we did.
Uncoached my a$$
Btw I’m no fan of PdV maar ek flippen haat klein arrogante mannetjies soos jy
29 Jun 2009, 13:43 pm
Right-o, chaps, I’m going to sign off now. But before I go, please do think about this anger issue.
When you’re not raging at the Lions, you’re raging at the British; when you’re not raging at the British, you’re raging at de Villiers; when you’re not raging at de Villiers, you’re raging at people who defend de Villiers; unless, of course, you’re pro-transformation, in which case you rage at Keo.
It is rage, rage, rage all day long. Not at all good for a chap’s health. So I urge you all to settle down with a nice cup of green tea and a jolly good book – perhaps Austen or Eliot – and soothe yourselves.
It will do you the power of good, and might just prevent you from shooting someone on your way home.
Yours affectionately,
Crouchback
29 Jun 2009, 13:43 pm
#126 captain fantail:
captain fanny, what has gotten into you? you also on the bandwagon i see?
29 Jun 2009, 13:43 pm
Listen, keo
The Boks are not uncoached
Lets look at the two tests so far..
First test we were cruising and in total control
If PdV didn’t make all thos changes, we would have won by 20 odd points
This is not arrogance, it’s just the where that test was heading
PdV made a mistake, he admitted it
MOVE ON
Second test
We were cruising for 30 secs (even got our first pen) and then SB had a brainfart
Suddenly we were down 10 with 14 men and all the momentum with the Lions in what looked like an away match
Not many teams would recover from that and not allow the Lions to close out the game then and there
Certainly an un-coached team would never pull that off.
Yet we did.
29 Jun 2009, 13:44 pm
#152 Viscount Crouchback:
old mr temperate, after his rehashing of the boer war over the last week.
cup of tea indeed.
29 Jun 2009, 13:45 pm
No wonder KEO wasn’t admitted to hospital on Saturday.
3-0 prediction nearly went out the window.
29 Jun 2009, 13:45 pm
#126 captain fantail:
Well said Cappy.
29 Jun 2009, 13:46 pm
#148 XhosaKid:
Not to clued up Nelie’s career I am afraid. I know some still rate him quite highly.
29 Jun 2009, 13:47 pm
trust these damn kiwis, any chance of their no 1 position being usuurped and its mother england for all.
need a few stout republicans on here with some backbone.
29 Jun 2009, 13:48 pm
#149 cane: Thats good to hear, I presonally prefer the NZ opinion to everything else. The only blokes were the majority really do know a thing or two about rugby. But us Saffas are full of passion which is great
29 Jun 2009, 13:48 pm
#143 ray-bulls_fan: O’Driscol’s off side takle on Danie was without arms, and dangerous he should have been sent off, he was clever though he staid down! Sherridan, was forever trying to provoke Bakkies, and how many times did Adam JOnes clear out a ruck in exactly the same manner as Bakkies yet why was he not cited? How many high takles did Shaw carry out? I counted 3!
Frankly if a team complains that the score line was what it was because a player from opposition was not red carded to me that sais that they know their team is shite and cannot competed with 15 men against 15 men!
29 Jun 2009, 13:49 pm
Just read the article about Edwards being livid that Burger never saw red.
He’s right, Burger should’ve seen red, but if him and the entire press corp. UK are going to consistently blame the loss on the fact that it was 15 vs 15, then may we ask that in future, before you tour, you simply write to HQ and request that the opposition have no more than 14 players to keep the Lions chances alive?
Address your email to cheapwhingeinglosers@gof***yourselves.com
29 Jun 2009, 13:50 pm
#151 Sharksgirl:
Johnny Smit took himself out.
When he put his knee into St Brad’s back.
And I ask you this…….how does landing on your fat arse injure your groin?
29 Jun 2009, 13:53 pm
#163 cane: It was all in the fall
29 Jun 2009, 13:54 pm
#147 Dawn:
I was thinking of chlamydia I always get them confused….
29 Jun 2009, 13:54 pm
#163 cane: Leg first, the fat arse
29 Jun 2009, 13:55 pm
#65 cane: You left out a few more apt ones as far as South Africa is concerned;
- Spion Kop
- Rourkes Drift
- Isandlwana
However, the common theme throughout your list (excepting Robben Island) is that they are all dead. May be heroes, but mostly they are still dead.
29 Jun 2009, 13:56 pm
I agree that losing should never be a cause to celebrate and the Lions should not be labelled heroes, but I’m fed up hearing this arbitrary keo stat that the Boks are 20 points (or 40 if JC is writing) better than the Lions. In keoland if the Boks don’t win by 20 then it must be some failing on their part, not the fact that the opposition made things difficult for them and are perhaps a bit better than you give them credit for.
Arrogant tossers
29 Jun 2009, 13:57 pm
#163 cane:
The above post, in no way inferred, either directly, or indirectly, that Sharksbabe, had, or has ever had, a posterior that was nothing less than magnifique.
29 Jun 2009, 13:58 pm
#164 Sharksgirl: Or you are confused? Can you please ask the sharks coach Not to try and Mess up the Boks ALSO.
29 Jun 2009, 13:58 pm
have a south african team ever white-washed the lions?
29 Jun 2009, 13:59 pm
I like…
Nice one , Mark!!!
Cheers
29 Jun 2009, 13:59 pm
#162 Vetkoek: If the tables had been turned and, lets say, Habana had been gouged in the first minute, the perpetrator not been red-carded and you lost with the last kick of the game would you not be looking for people to blame?
Are you denying the game would have been different if the correct sanction had been handed out for the eye-gouge?
29 Jun 2009, 14:01 pm
#168 jonnymain:
When Keo was on his crusade against White the articles were similar, nothing was good enough and White simply had to go in their view – even as late as December 2006 just before the World Cup.
Keo wrote that even that last win at Twickers means nothing in the bigger scheme of things and that White still had to go.
10 months later he won the WC.
Same story here, people are pissed because they simply do not like or rate the coach.
Not even winning is good enough.
29 Jun 2009, 14:02 pm
Winning is great, i’m pissed at the whinging not the winning.
29 Jun 2009, 14:05 pm
#126 captain fantail: look at the score board. you are just a suurgat engelsman and you are not hard enough for the game. you are like johnny wilkenson, some talent but not able to finish the game. slapgat
29 Jun 2009, 14:05 pm
Come on folks there is nothing worse than an ungracious winner. No matter how much the losing side complains we should be up there congratulating them on a tremendous effort. They are after all naturally despondent having put their all into this effort and given us tremendous value.
As for the complaints re: off the ball stuff etc. you have to realise that if you are prepared to give then you have to be prepared to take it on the chin as well. No good crying. If the opposition cry well then you console them rather than berate them for their own misdemeanours. Its called the “high road”.
The aggression shown by the Saffer fans would suggest we have to defend ourselves to the rest of the World when in reality thats not true. We have a lot to be proud of and should act with more dignity.
29 Jun 2009, 14:06 pm
#173 jonnymain:
Actually, no. Because my first thought would be that we shouldn’t have to depend on a 1 man advantage to win a game. If Burger had caused Kearney to go off and miss the entire game, then I would say it may have something it it, but he didn’t. Kearney actually played pretty well not that’s got anything to do with it.
Burger did something low and disgusting that had no consequence other than a 10 point deficit and a 2 month ban (which he can consider himself lucky for).
If only Burger had stayed off we would’ve won is a hollow, pathetic excuse.
29 Jun 2009, 14:06 pm
#173 jonnymain: it didnt hapen so stop bitching
29 Jun 2009, 14:07 pm
#174 PissAnt:
Now, the overweight, underperforming tossers White kept selecting against popular, media opinion, is running Bok rugby!
You gotto love it!
29 Jun 2009, 14:08 pm
Taking part is fine, but I’m afraid British Culture does not build winners….and its a crying shame, as the best part of their culture is their sense of fairness. In SA as a kid if you werent picked for a team or made an error you were ridiculed, it is still very apparent in our adult humour. Does this make Saffers better people…..I’m not so sure…..does it make us more adept at sport, no question it does, but for sports administrators in things like athletics and football.
Who is the better person….I dont know, the jury is out?
All I know is I like winning and I hate losing, work, play, education and general competitiveness and I am a child of South Africa. if the Brits want to celebrate their valiant losers…well, let them do it, I dont have a problem with it…..but dont ask me to understand it, because I cant.
29 Jun 2009, 14:09 pm
#179 Cheetahboytjie: Not bitching but you okes are in denial.
29 Jun 2009, 14:09 pm
#174 PissAnt: No you just Want the status-quo.Do you Honestly think the Close relationship between Those negative 2 will bear fruit to Honesty and Objectivity? Dishonest You.
29 Jun 2009, 14:09 pm
Has anyone else noticed the irony that most of the posters on this thread are whining about the whiners…
29 Jun 2009, 14:10 pm
#181 4man: You’re right, it’s part of British sporting culture and it’s really time that it wasn’t. Britain loves a gallant loser. Embarrassing!
29 Jun 2009, 14:10 pm
just like the kiwis have no divine right to win the world cup everytime, we ,as south africans, also have no divine right to say we always 20points better than the next team.this lions team are certainly not the worst that have ever toured the republic and should be given the respect it deserves.
29 Jun 2009, 14:11 pm
#177 bananaboy:
fair enough, but i think you are bending over backward for ppl who deserve nothing of the sort. all i’ve seen and heard is bunch of whinging ingrates who have done nothing but complained and made excuses from start to finish. This goes for coaches, captains, players, and journos.
i say get them onto the planes. what do you do with spoilt overgrown babies?
29 Jun 2009, 14:12 pm
#183 namakwaland:
Sorry I did not get that post in Yoda-speak.
29 Jun 2009, 14:12 pm
#185 jonnymain:
nothing wrong with a gallant loser, its one of the nicest things about Britain, but its no longer the case. there were not gallant losers, you and Big Hit are an exceptionally small minority.
29 Jun 2009, 14:13 pm
#188 PissAnt: WEAK too You?
29 Jun 2009, 14:13 pm
#182 jonnymain: no we are not we won and only true lossers look for all the posible excuses. face the facts the lions just are not good enough
29 Jun 2009, 14:14 pm
#174 PissAnt: PA I would agree with your sentiment if I at least saw the makings of a plan coming out of the current Coaching group. Instead what I’ve seen is the same group of players,playing the same style of rugby. Now i agree that the win ratio is great but could we have expected anything worse with the squad inherited by PDV.
Please understand that I would love to give him all the credit in the world but judging by the press comments and what has happened on the rugby field I cannot say I that I see a world class coaches influence there. I hope and pray that I am wrong.
29 Jun 2009, 14:14 pm
#152 Viscount Brokeback:
Thanks for all the good advice. All just a little English for me. Thats the problem, you see, You guys cannot excel in much, but still think you can dish out the advice to everyone, even those who do not ask for it!
The difference between your side and ours is that we had the strength of body and mind to defend a late surge and you did not. That is the long and short of it. We showed in both games (and opposing circumstances) that we have what you lack. Should we appologise for that? I think not. You either have it or you don’t. Thats life.
So, thanks for your advice, but you can keep it since it obviously got you to where you are.
29 Jun 2009, 14:15 pm
#187 cab: Yeah Cab but do we have to defend ourselves, only if you think they have a legitimate gripe and that we disn’t deserve to win. I for one don’t think so
29 Jun 2009, 14:15 pm
#84 Vetkoek: Ronan OG crying….. What about Jaque Fourie getting rid of O’Gara on his way to score that try? I’m sure he was patched up during all the replays – one moment, before the try was scored, he was still fine. The next moment O’Gara was seen with a huge “bandage” around his head – he surely had one hell of a headache on Sunday morning!
29 Jun 2009, 14:17 pm
#189 cab: Hahaha I hate that label! Show me a good loser and I’ll show you a loser, etc etc
I’m not even that bothered about the series being lost to tell the absolute truth, but I hate to see and read over-hyped disrespectful **** from both sides. I think it’s about time we put the Lions concept to bed, I think it’s irrelevant in the professional era. I’d much rather spend my time and energy following a side that I can identify with, ie Scotland or SA.
29 Jun 2009, 14:17 pm
I’m sorry I don’t feel any mercy for these whinging poms. They have discredited themselevs purely by their own actions.
Granted this article is a bit one sided, but Keo is a fan, even though he is involved in the industry and makes his
living from it, he is still a fan enjoying the sporting camaraderie and Springbok series victory. That is what needs to be remembered when reading these articles.
29 Jun 2009, 14:18 pm
#173 jonnymain:
Aaag ou Jonny … if this … if that … we can also play that game. Go and have a nice, slow, thorough look at both tests and look at how many times the BILs were:
- hanging around rucks in offside position ‘lazy lioning’
- joining rucks at tackle-time from wrong side
Just those two issues will do the trick – the BILs forewards had the privilege of playing without an offside-line – and still cocked it up.
I’m very happy we klapped the BILs and the moer in for hooligan Schalk for being an a-hole and diverting attention away from the real achievement.
29 Jun 2009, 14:18 pm
#194 bananaboy:
i suppose not, but its just so much BS that you need to give some back, otherwise its just continued. the media is a funny thing, i may be wrong and overreacting, but there is something which most of us can see as clear as day, which they cant.
29 Jun 2009, 14:18 pm
#191 Cheetahboytjie: Please tell me where I have ever said the Lions are better than the Boks and I will apologise and retract the statement. Think we’ve got a case of crossed-wires!
29 Jun 2009, 14:20 pm
#197 Yetirat: true. the lions have to earn respect and they lost it by being crybabies
29 Jun 2009, 14:22 pm
#196 jonnymain:
my honest view is that the Lions is a phenomenal concept, i can’t remember such good test matches anywhere in the last two years. the problem is all the off-the-field stuff which has gone from needle and banter to just plain poor sportsmanship, and to be honest, just plain poor losers.
These lions were not gallant losers, that is for sure. They showed alot of skill and bravery and whinging, but they could never be excused of being gallant.
29 Jun 2009, 14:22 pm
#150 I wanna be coach:
My home town is Greymouth.
This Town sits on the banks of the Grey River. In Grey County, in the South Island.
In the North Island we have Greytown, in the Wairarapapa region.
Sir George was among the 5 most influencial people in the history of Our (NZ) Nation. IMHO.
29 Jun 2009, 14:22 pm
#198 kwaailight: You say this I can say that. We can go around in circles on that one mate and it will do no good. What my original post was trying to point out (with little success) was you can understand, if not excuse, the bleating coming from the Lions players and management on the subject and that if it had happened the other way around (the eye-gouge incident that is) there would have been plenty on here screaming blue murder and injustice.
You know it and I know it.
29 Jun 2009, 14:23 pm
#185 jonnymain:
Tim Henman? Gallant loser loved by the nation, nice guy. Andy Murray, far better tennis player, personality of squid.. not so widely adored. Well maybe he’s adored in Scotland.
29 Jun 2009, 14:26 pm
The real heros are always the gallant losers.
None in this touring outfit that i can see.
29 Jun 2009, 14:28 pm
#202 cab: Very true, and very sad for me. Mike Phillips is a prize arse and should not be anywhere near a microphone after a match. Emotions were obviously sky-high after the final whistle and things said that shouldn’t have been. I’m disappointed in O’Connell as well. If things had been different I’m sure Smit would have congratulated the Lions on victory straight away. It’s not what you come to expect from an Irishman and a Munsterman in particular!
29 Jun 2009, 14:28 pm
Jacques Fouries try was so typical of him, the slimmest of chances, right on the edge and his physicality is outstanding and makes him get those scores more often than not. Even young Brussouw, half the size of the Lions forwards, when he has his hands on the ball, they CANNOT get it away from him. I see a changing of the guard coming in the Bok side soon. If the management team dont see it, they will implode like they did under Mallett…..makes you wonder just how much pressure is coming from “head office”.
Schalk is carrying a long term injury, look at the way he clicks his neck and head every 5 minutes or so….he came into the side underdone and had huge pressure placed on him and he is probably at about 85% of his best. Jean de Villiers is also not right, there is something going on with his physique….Habana is nearly back to his best, Ruan is also at about 85% of his best. If I was the guy in charge, I’d be telling a few players to sit it out for a while.
29 Jun 2009, 14:28 pm
#201 Cheetahboytjie:
The problem I have now with the Lions and their management is that talked a big game before the series and each game how they were going to take it to the Boks, be physical, won’t be bullied. When they get beaten at their own game they then cry foul. It is truly pathetic. They have yet to give any credit where its due, they have only whined about what should or could have been.
29 Jun 2009, 14:31 pm
#205 Londonbokshark: I don’t identify with the gallant loser mentality! Henman was a prime example of one, and he was a posh well-spoken Englishman to boot – Viscount would approve! Murray is a strange one – great player with more natural talent in his little finger than Henman, but he won’t gain the affection of the public because he once said he supported any team against England (think this was around the time of the last football WC in Germany) so I think he’s a hero!
29 Jun 2009, 14:34 pm
The Lions must never be lost as a concept. Shame to the Provincial sides for not playing their strongest and best teams. If rugby loses any more traditions we must just end up having nothing to be passionate about. My football team Liverpool has about 3 Liverpool players in it…..theres something wrong with that!! I actually only follow the big matches now and almost without passion, I save that for schoolboy rugby where there is still a sense of belonging to something bigger than yourself.
29 Jun 2009, 14:34 pm
#209 Londonbokshark: They should go out to ellis park and win or loose, take it like men. you ever hear McCaw complain. he congratulates the other team and go on to prove the AB’s are up to it in the next game. its all about attitude.
29 Jun 2009, 14:35 pm
#202 cab: The Lions concept is unique but my problem with it is I just don’t think they can ever expect to win a test series again now the game is fully professional. You just can’t throw 4 nations together in 8 weeks and expect to beat the best teams in the world in their own backyard. How many years has it taken for the current Springbok squad to mature into the best in the world?
29 Jun 2009, 14:38 pm
#210 jonnymain:
LOL! I remember Murray saying that. Still it hasn’t stopped the crowds lining up to watch him play.. I’d support Germany over England so I am with him on that one!
i just wish this series had been played in better spirits. it had the potential to be a festival of rugby, which it deserves. Now it has degenerated seriously and I think there are going to have to be some harsh words to keep the players from brawling outright. Some might feel they have a personal score to settle after saturday.
29 Jun 2009, 14:39 pm
Guys I don’t usually post, normally just read but I have to post today.
I am watching a replay of the test match and firstly, the ban to Bakkies is ridiculous – his clean out was standard issue, albeit with lots of power. If you look at the Lions hooker who tries to clean out Bakkies after the incident he hits him in exactly the same manner.
Secondly, it gives me great pleasure to beat the Lions because I had to listen to the Sky Sport feed and their commentators are as one-eyed as can be. After O Driscoll takes out Danie with the head high charge the comment is “that’s the sort of hit that lifts a team, brilliant play from O Driscoll”. Are you kidding me?? These okes just about neededed a change of pants when Schalk only got a yellow card but thuggish play from one of their own is applauded!
Nice one Bokke. 3-0!
29 Jun 2009, 14:40 pm
#214 Londonbokshark: Let’s be honest. I’m looking forward to seeing some fighting on Saturday! It’ll make the match worth watching
29 Jun 2009, 14:41 pm
#192 bananaboy:
It is more of a case of history repeating itself.
Just 10 months out from the World Cup White and Smit and most of the Boks were useless according to most. They had no plan and no chance in hell of achieving WC success.
White inhereted players too, he hardly brought something ‘new’ to the setup from a resource point of view, he was brilliant in developing structures.
PDV has done brilliantly not to destroy those structures and build on them, and try to tweak them to improve them even more.
Looking at his record, which in his first year was the same as White when he quit, meaning there was no regression, and has now improved with very important series win over the Lions…
I see no regression, I see moving forward using the same structures and with the same slobby, overweight, underperforming players that White stupidly kept on selecting in 2006…
29 Jun 2009, 14:43 pm
#212 Cheetahboytjie:
True, John Smit too. All great Captains will congratulate the opposition first on a job well done. I have yet to read of John or Ritchie moaning in the media. Correct me if I am wrong..
I hope the 3rd test is played hard, but clean. I don’t think it will though. That said, Bakkies is out so that’s a start
29 Jun 2009, 14:47 pm
#218 Londonbokshark: Bismarck will be playing though!
29 Jun 2009, 14:50 pm
#215 Stoffel: I hate the Sky commentators. Fortunately we are getting the Supersport feed which is much better, apart from Naas’s Corner which is just plain embarrassing! Don’t recall the SS commentators making too much of a fuss of the BOD versus Danie clash, apart from saying that BOD was perhaps half a mile offsides!
29 Jun 2009, 14:58 pm
#213 jonnymain:
not sure about that jonny, both test matches could quite easily have gone the other way. this Lions team was and is a class team, many have been saying so before they were beaten. I believe they have wordclass talent in every position, but perhaps might have been struggling at 2, 8 and 10 – who are all good players, so no real weakness. Also when they pull on their jersey there is alot of pride, simon shaw was actually in tears. This is all great, but the pride and losing is no excuse for poor manners and belligernce.
Paul O Connel loooks like a decent guy and all, but he aint no captains arse, his belligerance has filtered right through this Lions team.
29 Jun 2009, 15:07 pm
#152 Viscount Crouchback: stuff off vitriol brokeback! Go and re-read some of the stuff you write on your blog, about “beastings, afrikaners & anglo-boer wars” don’t come here with your sanctimonious bullsh!t…if we’re “raging” we’re doing it amongst ourselves as saffas, you don’t have to subject urself to it…i’m sure there are plenty of blogs in the UK where you can go & celebrate your vanquished heroes?
29 Jun 2009, 15:09 pm
once again keo moans about the coach not being good enough… same old story… will he ever be happy with any coach? or only if he coaches the team himself.
My conclusion is that badly coached teams do not score from set-plays. that is something that can only be done through good planning, good coaching and hours of repetition.
Lay of PDV, the dude has done more in the last few months of his career than many of his frontrunners.
29 Jun 2009, 16:14 pm
Very bitter from Keo, obviously he cannot accept there was precious little between the two sides over the series.
This ‘we would’ve won by 50pts if it wasn’t for the coach’ is very silly. Statistically he’s the most successful coach in the last six who were appointed.
29 Jun 2009, 16:21 pm
Great article.
The British Goats are hurting real bad but
the truth will always be denied.
BOKKE must trash them in 3rde Toets
3-0 whitewash will shut them up
29 Jun 2009, 16:27 pm
#224 Big Hit: Not nearly as silly as all the would’ve bullsht sprouted by the British press over the past 2 weeks. I’ve never seen a less sporting reaction to a loss in all my life.
29 Jun 2009, 17:03 pm
#226 katman: WILL CARLING (and I’m not exactly his biggest fan) at least was objective about the match:
well there has certainly been some hot air expelled on here in the last 24 hours, hot compressed air too!! But that is as it should be, sport is all about the emotions and the Lions evoke some of the strongest.
When all is said and done though, South Africa won the test and with that the series and have proved that they are one, if not ‘the’, strongest team in the World at the moment.
Just as an aside I do think they will be favorites to win the Tri-Nations. ( now that is a kiss of death!!)
lets think back to a couple of months ago and most of my mates, and lots of rugby pundits were saying (off microphone) that the Lions were going to get stuffed. I did not hold out too much hope myself to be frank.
And yet looking at the first two Tests the Lions have been brilliant in parts, brave in everything and so close to leveling the series, if not being 2-0 ahead, so very different from so many wise predictions.
Did the Boks cheat, were they just thugs? No, not in my mind. If Burger gouged that is inexcusable and the referee should have sent him off there and then. But apart from that, what else did they do that was thuggery? It was hard for sure, bloody hard, but isn’t that Test rugby? Botha’s illegal challenge on Jones? well what about BOD’s illegal tackle? It is swings and roundabouts and the Boks have always been a very very physical side. it is nothing new.
The pain of losing right at the end has evoked the most emotion I would suspect, and it was a sickening finish – but one the Lions brought on themselves, no one else. ROG’s challenge was crazy, simple.
Roberts, Kearney, BOD, Croft, Shaw SJ were all examples of Lions pride and I thought they were inspirational. No doubt that the injuries hurt the Lions organisation at crucial times, and if the centre partnership had survived the game, the game would have been won by the Lions.
Hook should have been on the bench instead of ROG, I have said that all week, and that was crucial in the end too.
But let’s remember two things;
The Lions can and should be proud of what they have achieved in throwing four ‘teams’ together in a matter of weeks and secondly the Boks are a bloody good, tough side, with many great players and great characters, and they should not be branded thugs, or cheats, they have won the test series, and congratulations to them
29 Jun 2009, 17:06 pm
#224 Big Hit: i agree. if the Boks are winning he can wear the tutu he describes and sing ‘one boer one bullet’ from the sidelines and it won’t bother me.
29 Jun 2009, 17:09 pm
#226 katman: There would’ve been more praise had it not been for Burger’s eye-gouging. It turned things sour to a large extent.
29 Jun 2009, 17:13 pm
#116 cane:
Oh no.
Not another bl**dy Coaster !
Oh fark.
Im bl**dy well married to one.
Youre all farken crazy.
Nuts. Run away !
Until whitebaiting season is over and we can all relax again.
#124 Dawn:
who cares what he looks like ? he has magic in them there hands, black magic I say.
#137 Sharksgirl:
that was no ‘punch’. Accidental follow-thru from lifting his *** up thru his neck.
#226 katman:
Isnt that the same thing you said to the last guy you were trying to p*ss off ?
29 Jun 2009, 17:16 pm
#229 Big Hit: Yes, I get the distinct impression that this eye-gouge came as a life saver for many of them. They desperately needed a BIG ONE to blame and divert attention if things went pear shaped, and their prayers were answered.
29 Jun 2009, 17:17 pm
Yoh !!!
No Mercy from the KEO Clan !
Bloody Marvelous !
I say we call a 99 next week , stuff the whitewash
The fact that our players stood back on Sat is a credit to their focus and dicipline to secure the series 1st
If the Lions bring the same dirt to next Game i say we bash them
You could see the negative effect on the psyche of players having to stand back
We cant carry that into the Tri Nations , we must go in with Positive Psyche
So Win the Fight 1st on Sat is my call
If that also menas we get a whitewash them Bonus
And make sure januarie is on hand to take out the lions front row
29 Jun 2009, 17:20 pm
#227 Soda:
I think that is a very good article by Will Carling.
29 Jun 2009, 17:23 pm
#232 Murph-YellowCardsforGoodCleaningWhatNext?-RedCardsforScoringTries:
lol
29 Jun 2009, 17:23 pm
#231 katman: I would say some of them wanted something to blame but not all. The Boks definitely deserve far more praise than they’re getting, both keo and PDV are right about that, but Burger let his teammates down and the press were never going to let eye-gouging slide.
29 Jun 2009, 17:26 pm
I agree with CArling
If ROG was on the field from Start we would have lost
29 Jun 2009, 17:30 pm
#221 cab:
Congratulations Cab on a refreshing discourse.
Unfortunately Keo’s (and other’s) bleatings exemplify that it comes from both sides.
One thing being gracious in defeat, another being gratious in winning.
Two brilliant games that went down to the wire. Both could have gone either way.
I for one find more entertainment in close fought encounters rather than one sided games.
29 Jun 2009, 17:32 pm
#227 Soda:
Most sports minded individuals are fair minded.
There’s good and bad in every on both sides.
29 Jun 2009, 17:37 pm
#227 Soda:
I have also read articles by other former players such as Will Greenwood, Keith Wood and Stuart Barnes, and they have also been fair and unbiased, and have mentioned the good play by the Boks as well as their own team. This is in stark contrast to the articles written by nobodies, reporters who have never featured on the rugby field. Their so-called “match reports” whenever England or the Lions lose are nothing but a list of excuses: they blame the referee, the weather, injuries, altitude… in fact anything, but will never ever acknowledge that the opponents played some good rugby and deserved the win. This is not a new thing, we’ve seen it time and again in 6 Nations, the last world cup, and I don’t believe they are man enough to ever change so best we don’t worry about them. Just keep on winning!!
29 Jun 2009, 17:38 pm
#238 Osama – bin OCO: More from Carling:
willc:To all Lions supporters; Let’s take a deep breath, and see it for what it was. A bloody hard game of rugby, where stuff went on – what a surprise!! and we lost a game that we could and should have won. Yes that hurts, like hell, but let’s not go crying and blaming foul play for f**ks sake!
Going back into the dim and distant past, when we played the French and the likes of Blanco, Berbizier, Sella etc, we spent the whole game provoking them into fighting, we stamped on them, punched them, late tackles, early tackles, blatant shoeings – the lot!! We managed to get them to fight and not play rugby – I do not hear too much complaining on here about those days and those tactics????????? That was fine them was it????
Rugby is a hard game, that is why it is so great. Yes the Boks put it about yesterday, and apart from the eye-gouging, which if proved correct has no place on a rugby pitch – the rest of it is part of the game. If I was playing, you would love to get stuck into that, get a f**king great hit in late on one of them, etc etc. It is what gets the blood going.
So as I said at the beginning, yes it is hard to take a loss like that, the last kick of the game after the team played with such pride, but take it we must without making excuses. End of
29 Jun 2009, 17:54 pm
#240 Soda:
Thanks Soda, as PdV says (OK I’ll paraphrase ‘cos PdV doesn’t have the menatl aptitude to do so himself) – ‘Contact sports are not for the feint hearted’
What many of the bloggers fail to comprehend is that they are whinging more than the whingers themselves.
Problem is most of the bloggers (and even commentators) haven’t experienced a ‘hard fought match’ outside of couch rugga (and they still lost!
There are sportsmen and those who never made it. It’s easy to tell the difference, less whinging.
29 Jun 2009, 18:24 pm
#152 Viscount Crouchback: Hehehe we saffers are an angry bunch aren’t we?
You wouldn’t say we just won a Lions series….jeez….I must say all this negativity is a bit of a downer!
29 Jun 2009, 18:40 pm
Keo
It must have hurt you something awful 12 years ago that you write such spiteful tosh.
Anybody would think that SA lost the way you are so ungracious in victory.
It was a great test match marred only by a very talented player for SA doing something completely unnecessary 1 minute into the game.
Other than that it was one of the best games I have seen in ages and it’s not often I say that when I lose.
Big congrats to the Boks, Great nerve and resolve to come back to win
Rugby has always been about toughness on the pitch and sporting off.
Maybe you should take up writing about football just before the WC.
29 Jun 2009, 19:10 pm
And winners (like PDV) cannot be winners on this site.
Keo you and your lot are pathetic. No wonder you guys get shafted by PDV.
This country has a long way to go before it will change.
Did you guys see News24 poll regarding SA readiness to stage WC.
Only roughly a third of vote agrees our readiness. Swartgevaar negativity based on inherent racist doctrine!
VIVA PDV, No normal sport in an abnormal society is still very much a reality!
29 Jun 2009, 19:16 pm
#240 Soda:
Thats spot on.
Only real point of contention was the eye-gouging, everything else incl Bakkies was just part of the game.
Of course if Burger had been dealt with correctly it would have changed the course and result of the match. Surely that is not in dispute.
If we can look past that misdemeanour – because 15 against 14 always ruins the spectacle – we can remember that it was one of the very best Tests matches we’ve ever seen. And for that we can be thankful.
And whatever amount of bile and spittle has been shed in its wake, it pales in comparison to what would have happened if the shoe had been on the other foot.
29 Jun 2009, 22:08 pm
The reaction of the British press to this Test (and tour) has been, and continues to be, nothing short of appalling. Anyone who stoops to justify this whingeing nonsense is just as pathetic.
I’m especially infuriated by talk of Springbok “bullies” when the vast majority of niggle and dirty **** in both Tests came from British Lions intent on showing how little intimidated they are by the Bok physical challenge. Now, having lost, they all want to carp about how dirty the Boks were. If you can’t take it, don’t start dishing it out. It’s simple as that.
(This excludes Burger’s moment of pure stupidity, which ranks on a level all its own, although if Sheridan had connected with that punch he threw at Bekker’s balls, I’d have something else to say about that.)
29 Jun 2009, 23:44 pm
These Brity Lions are killing me. They keep talking about Schalk yet they had teh opp to win thw match and did not take it. What losers.
29 Jun 2009, 23:46 pm
#235 Big Hit: I agree Big Hit but the lack of sportmanship and after such a great test match is poor form..
30 Jun 2009, 00:09 am
#138 Martin: Oh yes and I forgot to mention how the ‘Beast’ was popped up like a prairie dog, your sacred scrum shunted like a rail cart and your players spat out of rucks and mauls like watermelon seeds. Sheer desperation leads to resorting to dirty tatics to stay alive long enough to be gifted a try (tmo) and then kick ahead because you aint got diddlies of getting over the line with out a lucky break.
Sorry boys and girls but the Boks have lost me for ever after that display of WC’s.
Still we know how great they are really dont we?
30 Jun 2009, 00:50 am
“Brussow’s impact was as obvious as it had been in the first 50 minutes in Durban’s Test victory, as his style troubles the tourists more than it will Australia and New Zealand”
Oh please dont start your **** about Brussouw now KEO. Wacth the Cheetahs/Crusaders game closely again. Have you ever seen Richie McCaw outplayed on the ground before (maybe occasionally by George Smith)? Brussouw MOST DEFINITELY will have an impact against Oz and Kiwi teams.
Ground hogging no 6′s have a very p[rticular set of skills which are damned difficult to master. I the skills also have particular physical requirements.
Smaller guys can get above the tackled player and hold the ball while looking less like they are leaning on their forearms. Also they provide a smaller target for cleaners to hit, and can more easily deflect cleaners off them without losing grip on ball.
They need huge upper body strength to not let go of the ball when they are being impacted on.
They also need great technique to use their shoulders to wrestle the ball away, and not their forarms which are less strong.
They need strong legs to be able to absorb impact through their shoulders when they get cleaned.
They need an excellent sense of timing, to get in just after a tackle, and after a small period in which the tackled player can place the ball and let go of it, but before the cleaners arrive.
They need awesome fitness, to be able to track attackers up and down the line all day, to tackle them and to spring to feet immediately to make the most of the tackler rule.
These skills and techniques are being lost to SA because they are not even being looked for as aresult of Jakes attitude to fetching. The irony is that Schalk WAS effectively a fetcher as he had the skills, but it was despite his size, and made up for because of his energy (which now seems to have waned).
In Brussouw (and Stegman), we have someone with all the skills. It is criminal not to use it!
30 Jun 2009, 03:18 am
Speaking from a neutral perspective in no-so-sunny Sydney, have to say that is a good article by Keo, who is exactly right when he says the Boks focused on victory in the last 20 minutes while the Lions just focused on hanging on – they didn’t ever look like scoring a try at any stage of the 2nd half. You could see the will to attack and score was only being displayed by the Saffers.
Again speaking from a neutral perspective, I’m disappointed it isn’t 1-1 going into the final test but our NH friends are kidding themselves if they are claiming they were robbed. As for the Lions heroic gallant losers tag, well if some of them had shown a biit more courage in defence and smarts in kicking then they could have (should have?) held on for a win. But there limitations were exposed.
See you all in the 3N. True Blue Aussie Rob and his fearsome front rower Al Baxter are awaiting for you soft Saffers and 2nd rate Kiwi’s …
30 Jun 2009, 03:52 am
a few posts talk about the romance of the concept of the Lions how it takes us back to rugby as we used to know it and why it shouldn’t be canned as an idea going forward. The first point here is that the Sunday Times of London has called into question the vialbilityof the Lions. I don’t think the Tri nation countries would ever not receive a Lions tour. My thinking is that it is not so much the fact that they haven’t won a test since the Wallaby game way back when but in the manner in which they lose. If they lost with dignity and pride and a sense they would come out and say that we lost the test congrats well done SA and think how they are going to make it right next time. This has not been the case – sadly. Its the Lions that are tarnishing their own brand by this increased unsporting behaviour which is just not British! They will go back as heroes and I feel sorry for them becuase they should no better themselves. They are free to absorb the adoration of their fans but should make it clear to them that they just weren’t good enough and they promise to make it right next time.
30 Jun 2009, 05:37 am
Brilliant article. I could not agree more. Never have I ever come across a nation that celebrates a loss quite as enthusiastically as the Brits.
30 Jun 2009, 07:46 am
How can you deserve to win when on the wrong side of 3 tries to 1?????????How?
30 Jun 2009, 11:25 am
Good article, the brits love portraying themselves fighting valiantly in defeat. When in fact poor tactical desicions and an inability to finsih matches cost them.
The british coching staff has been poor on this tour namely in their poor selections, not starting sheridan and overplaying murray to the point of injury was a poor move, not including tom croft in the original squad, not including ryan jones, dwayne peel, and the best opensider in britain tom rees at all. (he was comming off a long inury but would have had ample time during the tour to get back to match fitness)
30 Jun 2009, 11:52 am
Apart from the Intent and will to win.
I go onto a ‘fantasy rugby” website to pick up some stats every now and then.
whilst i know stats do not tell the whole story, it is still a guideline.
this site marks players based on various skills and achievements in the game, as well as docking points for penalties given, ball lost, possession lost etc…
It is interesting to see that the boks outscored the lions in the 2nd test. and the top ten players of the game as below illustrates that despite the media (foreign) saying otherwise. the boks overall were actually the better, more clinical team. (note. stephen jones is only there due to penalties converted)
1 Robert Kearney BI
2 Fourie du Preez SA
3 Stephen Jones BI
4 Bryan Habana SA
5 Pierre Spies SA
6 Victor Matfield SA
7 Bismarck du Plessis SA
8 JP Pietersen SA
9 Mike Phillips BI
10 Paul O’Connell BI
30 Jun 2009, 12:11 pm
#256 green_and_gold:
Oh, and Stephen jones’s love child, Simon shaw was immense on saturday, but it was not mentioned that he gave away 4 penalties….almost half as many as the entire SA team….
30 Jun 2009, 12:39 pm
#228 Soda: Div is a **** coach. He only has the record he does because he inherited one of the best teams ever produced in SA. He has hardly had to develop anyone. All he has to do is select strategy, and he can barely do that. Had he inherited any of the mediocre teams of the past he would have been history long ago.
30 Jun 2009, 14:24 pm
#254 bok2007:
Who deserved to win the 1st Test ?
30 Jun 2009, 19:54 pm
Hey BOK2007: “How can you deserve to win when on the wrong side of 3 tries to 2?????????How?” First Test Match.
Also Keo, you say: “The Springboks deserved the win because in the last 20 minutes the South Africans were the ones attacking and mentally their players wanted victory, whereas the Lions were content to settle for a draw and with it a drawn series at best with just the one Test in three to play.” This is the exact reverse of the First Test when in the last 20 minutes it was the Lions who were the only side trying to win, whilst the Boks were desperate for the hooter to go. And in the Second Test, it would have ended at 25-25 if O’Gara had played the percentages and kicked to touch instead of putting up the up and under (that gave away the penalty) and looking for a last minute victory.
I agree with you that there is a strange aspect to lauding a defeated side, but it comes down to the manner of the defeat. The British and Irish Press are the first to savage a team that has played poorly and lost – they revel in it; but when two tests have been as close as the first two of 2009, it would be churlish to go fot the jugular.
Gersh, Saba, NA
3 Jul 2009, 13:02 pm
The Boks, along with the All Blacks, are seriously under performing! The Ozzies are gonna klap us both in the Tri Nations, why? They’ve got a REAL Coach.
#260 gershfromsaba: First test, both teams had a winning mentality. The Second test, the Lions had a “Lets go for a Draw” mentality, where as the Boks had the winning mentality, and the Lions supporters had a whining mentality. Blame your media, they were the ones who created this believe that the Lions is a powerhouse full of talent able to klap a below par Bok side.
#49 rugbygenius: “…the Lions are the second greatest rugby establishment.” That’s a good one, thanks for the workout. With a nick like that, posting a stupid comment like that is actually the real shame here. Love the conflicting NIC vs COMMENT thing you got going there…
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