PdV: Defeat exposed stragglers
4 Jul 2009
Peter de Villiers cited the coming Tri-Nations as motivation for making 10 changes ahead of the dead rubber in Johannesburg.
The Springboks suffered their worst ever defeat to the British & Irish Lions when they went down 28-9 on Saturday. It was also the first time they had lost at Ellis Park since 2001.
Injuries forced the Lions to field a vastly changed side, but before the game, De Villiers explained his own eight changes as an opportunity to field fringe players. It was more important to give the youngsters an opportunity than to push for an unprecedented whitewash over the northerners.
‘We’re grateful we’ve won the series. When we sat down before the series, we said this was one of our goals. I’ve always said the Lions are a brilliant team and they showed it [on Saturday],’ De Villiers told keo.co.za.
‘How will we know [if the youngsters are good enough] if we don’t give them a chance? This was very important with the Tri-Nations just around the corner. We’ve learned a lot.’
De Villiers refused to single out players that have effectively ruled themselves out of the Sanzar tournament with an awful showing at Ellis Park.
‘It’s not in my principles to discuss players here. But I now have a clearer idea in my head of who they are.’
Bok captain John Smit explained the Boks wore white armbands in a show of solidarity for the banned Bakkies Botha. The irony was the belligerent Boks were outbullied on the day, with the Lions forwards the more intense unit.
‘I suppose you could say it was a distraction now, but there’s no excuse, we were poor,’ he said. ‘I’m experiencing some mixed emotions right now, but to be frank they were all over us at the contact area. Their counter-rucking was great and we didn’t respect our own ball enough. We need to learn from that going forward.
‘But if you had to said to me the series would have been 2-1 beforehand, I would have taken it. The Lions series was always going to be our priority this year and it’s been an amazing experience. To win a series, for me, is right up there with [winning] the World Cup.’
The Boks have adopted a game-by-game strategy and will only start planning for the Tri-Nations when they reconvene in 10 days time. While Smit said their major objective has already been attained, they are desperate to improve on last year’s dismal showing in the Tri-Nations.
‘I think we let ourselves down last year. This is going to be a colossal tournament and even though it was a priority to win the Lions series, it would be naive to think we couldn’t win the Tri-Nations with the team that we have. We just need to fix the mistakes and produce a better balanced effort.
‘There’s so much to be achieved and this team is young enough to go all the way through to the next World Cup. I’m committed until the end of 2010, so that’s not too far away [from the 2011 World Cup], but I’m going to take it one year at a time.’
By Jon Cardinelli, at Ellis Park
229 Comments
4 Jul 2009, 18:59 pm
THE LIONS ARE AGGREGATE POINTS AND MORAL VICTORS.
4 Jul 2009, 19:10 pm
#1 Dubliner: this is rugby not football ,we dont deal with aggregate we deal with wins/losses
the bokke won the series get over it!!!!
4 Jul 2009, 19:11 pm
#1 Dubliner: lol which team lifted the trophy? Hell it is time for little places with no governments like Wales, Scotland and Ireland to be taken over by the Queen. Yes it is a joke that those places can be called countries.
I want to play rugby against the Brits come 2011 RWC.
4 Jul 2009, 19:12 pm
#1 Dubliner: Poor loser!
Well I think that this series shows that the Boks need a tighthead, Chilliboy is NOT the answer at hooker, Muller is not an international class lock, Spies and Kankowski are not suited for the hard games, and that Habana and JPP are our best wings.
4 Jul 2009, 19:14 pm
#3 RedLion: You really are a d00s of note.
4 Jul 2009, 19:16 pm
Anyway, it was good excercise to bring in the B team players to see what they can do. Some B team players that should not be in the squad are … Muller, Odwa, and Kankowski. These 3 players must me replaced by Danie, ???, and Vermeulen.
4 Jul 2009, 19:17 pm
nokwe,muller,kirchner,kanko morne foruie and wynand certainly did’nt show why they should be included in the bok line up. nokwe was nowhere to be seen and reinforced the idea that he can only run nothing else. odwa was very solid and deserves to be in the squad .kanko was up to shite
3N first xv
15.frans steyn
14.jpp
13.fourie
12.JDv
11.habana
10.pienaar
9.FdP
8.spies
7.juan
6.brussow
5.matfield
4.bakkies
3.smit
2.bismarck
1.beast
16.poitgeter
17.guthro
18.carstens
19.morne
20.odwa
21.WO
22.adi
4 Jul 2009, 19:18 pm
#5 JockBok: that is not what you said last night when you were sucking reds big fat one.
4 Jul 2009, 19:18 pm
#3 RedLion: You really don’t know anything at all do you?
4 Jul 2009, 19:19 pm
Congratulations to the Lions. Deserved third test victory.
Boks:
1. You can’t play without a game plan.
2. You can’t compete without a world class coach.
3. When you saw the Lions get away with the breakdown stuff (esp i nthe last two tests) you should have either got the ref to start blowing it or do some diving over and “lazy lying” yourself. You conceded the breakdown, and thereby the match.
4. This crash ball thing doesn’t work against a team that is gang-tackling on the gain line. You have to move the ball sometimes to make the crash ball effective.
5. You have to get the front row working. Disaster today.
6. You lost whatever composure you had with 15 minutes to go. The game could not have been won in that frame of mind.
Well done Lions. Boks in trouble – Eddie Jones may be right about the Boks being on the way down.
4 Jul 2009, 19:22 pm
well at least PDv tried the B team before the tri nations and not against an all black team. now he’s got no excuse to play the b team ahead of their first team counterparts
4 Jul 2009, 19:23 pm
#9 jonnymain: Obviously not. Is he not RedLion one minute, and RedBull the next? No credibility, just a wind up merchant, and not a very good one.
4 Jul 2009, 19:23 pm
I live in London. Watched the game with group of Saffas AND also mass group of Lions supporters in a pub in Bath today. Overall feeling was joy for the Lions fans and the total ‘Ag fok’ feeling for us Bok fans… Then got told to read an article on suparugby dot com about a quip Pieter dof Villers made… Another Hansie-gate maybe..?????
4 Jul 2009, 19:27 pm
“‘But if you had to said to me the series would have been 2-1 beforehand, I would have taken it. ”
Thanks Smitty!
In the end this is all that matters, the Boks were victorious!
They can now move on to the important business of the 3N where they were very disappointing last year. It will not be easy and Boks certainly not favourites, but I think they are a lot more setlled as a unit.
You want to be as competitive as possible and the Lions certainly brought clarity re weaknesses. Thanks to them for that.
4 Jul 2009, 19:32 pm
I think the writing off of Kanko who played behind a losing pack with little match practise is a bit harsh. Reminds me of how every one used to write off Butch James. Muller may though not be up to international standard although he will do ok against the AB’s and Aussies. We need to develop some props though in the old Springbok tradition though.
4 Jul 2009, 19:35 pm
#15 malcolm: Agree 100%
4 Jul 2009, 19:41 pm
I can understand what PdV is saying and trying, but for the life of me can’t understand why he’d want to do it.
Changing so many players en-mass is surely never going to be as good as introducing one at a time when necessary into a winning side. The team dynamic was completely different today and surely replacing the banned players would have been enough?
So instead of having a team on a high of a 3-0 Lions whitewash going into the 3N, the Boks are reminded of their limitations, there strength in depth, and are now full of apprehension and the momentum is gone.
4 Jul 2009, 19:45 pm
No Div – the defeat exposed you for a useless coach! Do the honourbale thing and resign now before the ABs tear us apart!
4 Jul 2009, 19:47 pm
#14 Sheriff: Yeh I bet the ABs must be licking their lips in anticipation of niling us at home yet again! With this joker at the helm the result of the 3n will be nothing other than SA stone cold last as is the case every year. The Boks will always remain a perenial bunch of underachievers.
4 Jul 2009, 19:48 pm
Come to think of it, we did not just lost the game, but our luck also completely dried up……..
4 Jul 2009, 19:48 pm
What did we learn today?
Same thing we (except PdV) learned in the WC 2 years ago:
We have an excellent A team
We don’t have a B team
We don’t have a C team
We have a D team
Playing Nokwe and Odwa was totally unnecessary today
Would have been different with Habs and Jp there
Muller is too small to play internationally at No 4
Chilli should have come on late in game, not started
FdP was playing hurt from early on and that was biggest reason we lost, but not only reason.
4 Jul 2009, 19:49 pm
#1 Dubliner: In that case i think that we won the 3N last year then on aggregate?
4 Jul 2009, 19:54 pm
#21 bestyearever: Ja besides all this and I’d also say Kirchner played a bit part in us losing. I never want to see him playing for the Boks ever again! His E Boks performance did not justify picking him today. PdV is a complete and total doos! Thanks for embarrassing us further you stupid moustached oke!
4 Jul 2009, 19:56 pm
#15 malcolm: Yep there is no obvious replacement for Bakkies is there? I suppose Danie would have made a better job of it today if he wasn’t concussed. We’ve seen that playing 2 similar locks doesn’t work, the Lions tried it in the 1st test and it went badly, the Boks did it today and Muller was missing in action. Bekker and Matfield doesn’t work as a combo so it looks as if the Boks need to find another enforcer, and quick!
4 Jul 2009, 20:02 pm
#19 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: Have you seen how bad the All Blacks are these days? I reckon you haven’t seen them play yet because if you did you’d know that the AB are the weakest team in this Tri-Nations. But nothings for certain in rugby.
4 Jul 2009, 20:03 pm
Biggest worry today is the injury to du Preez. Basically today shows what we all knew all along – it doesn’t matter how good your backline is, if your forwards don’t dominate you can’t win the match.
4 Jul 2009, 20:04 pm
#25 Ezee-23: I think the Wallabies will be tougher to beat this year. Deans will have them organised and they’ve actually got a good tight 5 as well this year and some pretty exciting backs. They’d be giving me more sleepless nights than the ABs if I were PDV
4 Jul 2009, 20:05 pm
Interesting. I wonder who won the WC on aggregate? Fiji? We must Fedex Bill Web Ellis to them forthwith and with great haste!
4 Jul 2009, 20:08 pm
#23 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: A bit harsh on the guy?
4 Jul 2009, 20:12 pm
#25 Ezee-23: The ABs lost their first test thanks to ring-rust and an injury-depleted line-up missing all their stalwarts. But they won the following two.
And the news for the 3N is that several of those stalwarts are fit again, so crushing SA hopes of facing a weak AB team and getting a lucky win.
The ABs are planning a 2-0 series win in Bloem and Durbs.
A goal well within their compass with the Boks being “coached” by a bible-punching AA imbecile whose fame is based around idiotic metaphor-mangling tactlessness rather than rugby.
4 Jul 2009, 20:13 pm
Just gonna leave one comment, and the i’m outa here.
Well done Lions – you played a great game. No if’s no but’s – you deserved to win this game. We are gracious in defeat as we are in victory. Well played.
On the series as a whole – Well done Bokke, you got the points when you needed to, and that is the sign of a great team.
Bottom line, no matter what ANYBODY says: 2-1 Bokke !!!
4 Jul 2009, 20:14 pm
#1 Dubliner: wtf don’t talk shite
4 Jul 2009, 20:15 pm
Well done to the Bokke!!!! for the 2-1 series win over the lions!!! Well Done boys you have made us very proud.
4 Jul 2009, 20:15 pm
#27 jonnymain: Too right! The Aussies have everything going for them such as a good coach, good flyhalf and a good tight 5. But, and it’s big “but”, they haven’t faced good opposition lately, France had one foot on Air France when they played the Aussies. But if there’s one team in the world that can outrun a physical game it’s definitely the Aussies.
Thus ends my quota of Aussie praise for the year. Phew!
4 Jul 2009, 20:16 pm
#32 byoboy: Suspect it’s just a windup!
4 Jul 2009, 20:17 pm
IMO nokwe kirshner and muller under performed.
4 Jul 2009, 20:17 pm
#34 Ezee-23: Not sure I’d be too keen on putting even 1 foot on Air France these days
4 Jul 2009, 20:20 pm
#35 jonnymain: must be, coz that is a total crock of shite
4 Jul 2009, 20:24 pm
#23 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke:
I think you will also find PdV coached us to lose this game so that he can show the Lions management that he would congratulate them if they won…. which he did, several times
All kidding aside, we lacked intensity at the breakdown and our backs (who was supposed to run them ragged) got man and ball every damn time as a result.
Was never gonna win like that
4 Jul 2009, 20:25 pm
#30 TheTackler: How about making a rugby argument without any racial angle to it? Jeez! Anyway, I think the Boks will be battle-hardened and have now been able to see which of the so called “B” team are ready for the push up to Tri-Nations rugby. I think the AB’s will get a a shock from both the Aussies and the Boks.
4 Jul 2009, 20:25 pm
The irrational thinking to introduce these news players at this level was so unexpected. From a kiwi perspective, the opportunity for the Boks to claim the high ground leading into the tri nations has just become that more difficult.
We might be third in the pecking order with Australia the clear favourites but this morning I’m feeling much better about our chances to challenge the Boks in their own back yard.
This ill conceived gamble has back-fired. Forget about having already won the series, the objective was to crush the Lions in all three tests.
Now the three best teams on the planet will battle it out. The tri-nations is about bragging rights, being the best team in the world is reserved for the Northern Hemisphere sides. The best of British and Irish rugby were allowed to escape with their dignity intact thanks to that fool PDV.
4 Jul 2009, 20:26 pm
#37 jonnymain: Touche!
4 Jul 2009, 20:31 pm
#19 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke:
The ABs are the defending champs of the 3N.
They will go into the series as 1 of 2 favourites. The Boks traditionally use the 3N to build for World Cups, but this year may be a little different…
This year may be different in that they may actually try and win the thing.
4 Jul 2009, 20:35 pm
#40 Ezee-23: agree the AB have looked incredibly weak without carter and mccaw. no matter how much they try to deny it carter has been central to the all blacks sucess over the past 4 years and now that he’s injured its become very apparent
4 Jul 2009, 20:35 pm
#41 horiman: Dont be lulled into a false sense of security. The All Blacks’ chances haven’t changed. The Boks weren’t good today but as you know they can only get better and I don’t know about the Aussies being the “clear favourites”. They aren’t as physical and haven’t played against hard opposition.
4 Jul 2009, 20:38 pm
#41 horiman:
The Boks are still sipping tea and having snacks at the post match function and already people are speculating about the 3N.
Today’s game was about taking risks. Did it come off? No and yes. No cause they lost and never quite got it together.
Yes cause a few players showed that they are not quite ready for this level. It would have been spectacular if they’d won, but with the series in the bag prob a luxury they could afford.
In the preceeding weeks the Lions blames just about everything. They should really blame the Boks as they are the ones who whipped their ar$es.
4 Jul 2009, 20:39 pm
#43 Sheriff: Maybe the Lions series will actually work against the Boks. I’ve heard enough from Smit to suggest they put a lot into winning the series, will it be as easy to get the intensity up for such a familiar foe?
4 Jul 2009, 20:40 pm
Is Coach Pete the greatest ever?
4 Jul 2009, 20:41 pm
#44 mbaxman93: Couldn’t say it better myself. But to say they have no chance would be presumptuous of me or of anyone else.
4 Jul 2009, 20:44 pm
#46 Sheriff: Too right, you’ve managed to make sense of this entire situation.
#47 jonnymain: Maybe.
4 Jul 2009, 20:46 pm
#47 jonnymain:
Who knows for sure? Only time will tell.
One thing I can tell you is that the Bok management will not use all their creativity to find excuses like these bunch in red.
Excuses, every minute, every hour, every day. Yes indeed, every series.
Geech busy with a huge decoy campaign but he will not fool everybody. They lost 1-2. And that is the bottomline.
4 Jul 2009, 20:49 pm
I am happy that the Boks have won,because it is good for
the team spirit.To face the Aussies and Abs after a series loss
would have spelt only one thing,who sale chances and disaster.
I think one should not read to much in the series win,because there was one defining moment of madness in the second test that stood between a series draw or win.
What worries me most is the brainless brawn displayed
by a number of Boks that resulted in a number of easy points
for the Lions and put the game out of reach.
I do not agree with PDV’s statements that stragglers
were exposed,in my opinion it was more the coaching
staff being exposed,a poor tradesman always blames his tools
and never himself.
Some of the stragglers were star players for their unions in
the Super 14.
4 Jul 2009, 20:51 pm
#48 cab:
He’s got to chuck out the dead wood, if he thinks he can rely on the ‘senior’ players much longer he’s going to go down with them clutching at straws.
Now is the time he has to be real brave and go for broke, he has to bust the mold, its creaking at the seams already.
If this coach is really cut out for this he has to start looking at a new setup and get rid of the myth that this team is some greatest bok team ever because it waltzed a little WC none event.
He has to look at fresh blood NOW and fast.
Front row, Smit and Beast can just about cope, never dominate, need some serious props and soon maybe VdMerwe and Kruger get up to speed.
2nd Row, Matfield jaded, Botha only a brute enforcer, need some fresh blood now – dunno who, liked the guy that layed for Ebocks and the other one played for Southern Kings, maybe Sykes, but fresh blood needed as backup fast, Botha, Matfield and Roussouw only going to fire at 70% from here on out, same with front row, nowhere near full intensity with Smit and Beast up front.
Hooker, get Liebenburg in and fast
Flanks, Potgieter and Broussouw, and J.Smith (not sold on Deysel)
8th man Vermeulen and Spies – forget Kanko – chuck him out now.
Scummy, H.Adams / Vermaak, Hougaard, FdP
10 – Pienaar must get start and get up to confidence, M.Steyn only off bench
12 / 13 JdV, Jacobs, Fourie, WO but we still lack creative class, JdV/Jacobs still better than the 2 on show today
Wings – Habana, JPP, Basson, AN other
FB – F.Steyn, Kirchner
4 Jul 2009, 20:51 pm
#50 Ezee-23:
Have to, cause Tackler wont.
Face it, if the Boks won 3-0 they would have received the same criticism and more. They would have said that it will not be as easy against the ABs and Aus.
So, we know that, but we needed a game to test combinations/players. The worst case scen was that they win and then they come again in 12 yrs time so we can whip their ar$es again.
Some of these players will go into retirement thinking “if only”
4 Jul 2009, 20:57 pm
#53 skopskiet: I agree with some statements but we sure missed Bakkies, Johan Muller is p.ss poor and we need balance with Victor
We need a front row and also Kirchner is not the man at the back-Steyn has really shut up many a people about his class
Morne can not be evaluated behind that pack
Victor was the mediocre inside centre and Beast and John are really not good props-maybe good agaianst Aussies. The wingers were also really average
4 Jul 2009, 21:04 pm
#55 JL1: We did not lose because of the backline, there was two only changes made in the pack, and that is where the problems started. We were outplayed, outmuscled, by a more purpose driven team. This is South African Rugby, this is the reality. Politics is a major variable that coaches will have to live with, whether they like it or not. The politics of the day will ensure that the best in all the positions will not be chosen.
So we can keep on yelling, bitching, swearing but even if the fire PdV today and appoint who ever, there are still the political criteria to be complied with.
We will still win a few tests but when the core of the 1997 WC players has stopped playing or left to earn Euro’s our success rate will drop dramatically.
Everyone knows that South African sports men and woman are very talented, but politics has changed that forever. What happened to Tennis, Swimming, Netball, Soccer, and Athletics there might be more examples.
Statements made by a coach in South Africa whether it is the bull **** PdV is talking or the most political correct and highly motivational statements from who ever will not level the playing field, we are sinking…Don’t you understand that? Don’t you see it happening every day? So to think in 12 years time we wil “wip there arses again” like some one above said, I say you are living in Neverland, and there is no Landlord…
4 Jul 2009, 21:06 pm
The Boks didn’t win 3-0. Lots of grumpy yarpies were howling for a decisive thrashing of the Lions to settle the debate about who was the better team decisively, after two narrow squeaks and much thuggery.
Well, the complete 3 tries-to-nil huge reaming the Boks copped in the third test settled the debate decisively, but in the Lions’ favour.
And it’s opened up all those old insecurities again, and exposed all the wild bragging, empty threats and big talk as the typical hollow bravado of the boers.
They can feel yet another 3N wooden spoon being posted to their address in 2009. A mere 24 hours ago the anticipation was all silver cup rather than wooden spoon.
How quickly does a decent hiding work on the reality-check part of the brain, hey?
4 Jul 2009, 21:06 pm
I still maintain that the worst thing that could have happen for the Boks would have been to take this series 3-0.
Invariably the temptation to become arrogant would have been too big. At least now they can sit down and recognise their weaknesses. This game will serve as a fresh reminder how quickly things can go horribly wrong.
The ABs and Aussies will all present different challenges.
Boks will have the luxury to analyse the AB vs Aus game and then they play their 1st game right here in SA. All I’m saying at this early stage is that the Boks are mentally a completely different side from 2008.
Altho the Aussies got a Kiwi coach in 2008, culturally close enough to ensure smooth transition. The Boks ironically had the biggest shake-up; getting a coaching team that has a completely different outlook and vision.
Well that’s a thing of the past now and players have seen PdV is just another coach who wants to win.
4 Jul 2009, 21:06 pm
#53 skopskiet: Didn’t we just win a series against the BL. Add to that the S14 title coming to Saffa and it’s looking rosy.
Why the h*ll would we want to get rid of players now?
4 Jul 2009, 21:08 pm
#53 skopskiet:
nah i would not scatter to the hills just yet.
this was a deadrubber, rightly or wrongly, they took this game too lightly and eyes were on the 3N.
You said it before the game the bok backrow wa crazy with all 3 newbies and the bok pack too light with muller and kanko against a 900 kg+ BIL pack.
Three was not much in this game today, apart from a few intercept tries that were demoralising for the boks.
If they wanted a better chance of winning they should’ve played either stkes or juan at 4 and brought in someone else to hit rucks like vermeluen or deysel.
But what they really lacked WAs their weapons otwide in JP and Habana.
In my opinion the Lions rush defense wa offside for most of the game today, but thats no excuse, the bok pack were not oallowed to get enough go-forward like they did in 1st and 2nd. The bok were also spilling balls, etc.
They looking at 3N, BIL wanted a win despertely, all about hunger imo.
4 Jul 2009, 21:08 pm
#59 Bul-a-Bhloo: What would you do if we lost the series and S14?
Firing squad!!!!!!
4 Jul 2009, 21:09 pm
#56 crowbar: I do agree that we have a lot of politics and many of these senior players will now accept lucrative offers from abroad
Steyn is on his way out already, I do not think that PDV has it in him to build a new team, maybe politics will kill him off soon and we will start the new cycle of hiring and firing coaches
4 Jul 2009, 21:10 pm
#57 TheTackler: and your point??
or are you just trying to be articulate…
the series was lost 2-1 sorry but end of story
4 Jul 2009, 21:10 pm
#57 TheTackler:
Kopbeen
Pls dont tell me you think I’m a farmer.
I’m an accountant.
4 Jul 2009, 21:12 pm
#57 TheTackler: You only blog between RWCs it seems
4 Jul 2009, 21:13 pm
#64 Sheriff: Isn’t it true that accountant’s use their personalities as birth control.
You appear to friendly and outgoing to be an accountant.
4 Jul 2009, 21:17 pm
just remeberd, who saw stephen jones getting his conversion charged down by frans steyn haha
4 Jul 2009, 21:19 pm
#66 Bul-a-Bhloo:
Im only friendly causing Im talking to Tackler
:lolL
4 Jul 2009, 21:21 pm
#68 Sheriff:
4 Jul 2009, 21:22 pm
#55 JL1: #60 cab: #59 Bul-a-Bhloo:
Not about scattering to the hills, if anyone here is honest enough we just squekked this series just, some would say very fortunately indeed.
1st test Ref gave us front foot penalty kicks all 1st 40 minutes and then we almost imploded 2nd half
2nd test Schalk almost buried us and our famous gees and Brussouw, Fourie and M Steyn baled us at the death
Today we were showed up as very mediocre, and ‘senior’ boks Matfield and Smit were hardly dominant, Juan the only one putting in his pound of flesh.
Time to start a new breed of team to take us ahead, its NOW or never I’m afraid, because you cannot make an omelet without breaking some eggs.
Potgieter must come in, and Vermeulen
2 Props have to be found, Heinke and Kruger perhaps and put through some rigorous training to get up to international standard.
Same with 2nd row, you cannot rely on Matfield/Botha forever, they are on the wane as is J.Smit, see the writing on the wall or go down clutching straws.
A good coach is one who is a step ahead of the game, we are already on the wane it is blatantly obvious, chuck out the fading dead wood NOW and start building again or he’s going down as the coach that stuffed up Jake’s Holy Legacy, Jake himself would have gone down with these guys because rugby like everything else in life is not a stagnant issue it evolves and players go through ebbs and flows of capacity and fatigue. The senior players will not carry this much further, time to catch a wake up NOW before it is too late, if it is not getting there already.
4 Jul 2009, 21:23 pm
#62 JL1: I think you are right and I should start listening to my shrink, these voices that I hear is not that bad, I should just not talk back to them.
Have a great weekend.
4 Jul 2009, 21:27 pm
#67 mbaxman93:
Yeah, that was special
First prob in a Lions series!
I will remember that for a long long time. And the fact that they complained so much.
4 Jul 2009, 21:28 pm
Lose Kanko, forget Muller and even Roussouw,
get fresh input into front row, Kruger, Heinke (if he gets fit again), Liebenberg at 2
2nd row need some investment from somewhere (Sykes, Wentzel, Steenkamp, Fondse, Bekker, somebody)
Back row, Brussow, Potgieter/Smith, Vermeulen/Spies
9, H.Adams, Hougard, Vermaak
10, Pienaar, M.Steyn
11, Habana, Basson
12,13 JdV/Jacobs/Fourie
14, JPP
15 F.Steyn / Kirchner
captain J.Smith as soon as Smit hangs up his boots which should be reasonably soon, Potgieter for the long haul.
4 Jul 2009, 21:31 pm
Just a quick hello. I am the Night Owl champ!!!!
4 Jul 2009, 21:32 pm
#70 skopskiet: Suffice to say I don’t agree at all.
We have immense talent in the team and the senior players are awesome. The way they came back last week was brilliant.
I will not judge them on a dead rubber they didn’t want to play in the 1st place.
If I do have a concern it is that the team doesn’t seem well drilled or “coached” and also seem unable to adapt on the field.
We have seen a good many special players to carry us forward for a number of years. We just don’t want a WP scenario, all the talent with no plan.
4 Jul 2009, 21:32 pm
#70 skopskiet: So what you are saying is that we do not have an backup at the moment? Or that our senior guys need some talking to.
I have seen many a first 3 test matches of the season like this-we like to take out time before we start firing on all
I agree with the front row analysis but backrow we have no issues, we have Bekker to take over for Vic and also Steenbergs or so, our hoker is BIsmarck if he can catch a wake up
We need wingers/centers and a fullback while Steyn is away
4 Jul 2009, 21:35 pm
Lions deserved to win the game. Congratulations. The series left a kak taste in the mouth for all the whining. I watched the game at peddlars in cape town next to a bunch of one eyed and filthy poms. F@#$%^ing bunch of low life trash. Good riddance. I hope they never come back.
4 Jul 2009, 21:36 pm
#57 TheTackler: “Reality check part of the brain?” So you are also hearing the voices in your head? I read your posts but I fail to recognise any sense in it are you from NZ?
4 Jul 2009, 21:37 pm
#77 ekweetniks:
4 Jul 2009, 21:39 pm
#77 ekweetniks: I have to agree
I for one will not miss the Lions for another 100 years
4 Jul 2009, 21:39 pm
#75 Bul-a-Bhloo:
No senior players came back last week, it was the intro of newbies Brussow and M.Steyn that did the trick and J.Fourie, who is far better coming in off bench when oppo legs are tiring than starting like today, Jacobs runs much smarter lines than all the other 3 centers combined, he should always start when fit.
If not for Brussow and M.Steyn in this series we would have been hammered maybe 3-0. Senior players didn’t win this squeak home it was new kids that did.
4 Jul 2009, 21:48 pm
#76 JL1:
Victor, Bakkies, Smit, are not going to be around as front men talismen much longer
I like to be ahead of the game, not always on the catch up, must develop new incoming talent right now, these guys are waning already and fast, if you can’t see it and coaches don’t see it then by 2011 we will be dead ducks in the water.
White took young players and developed them for 2007, if you think you can run with the same crop to 2011 you are seriously mistaken, Smit has this season left thats about it, Matfield and Botha maybe one more after that, Smith, JdV hopefully another year,
But the way ahead is to get youngsters in soon
Front row need some proper props
Hooker Bismark and Liebenberg
2nd row need backups to Botha / Matfield, and I’m not canvassing for Roussouw, I mean backup to take us to 2001, Bekker and couple others.
Back row we got the goods in Brussow, Potgieter, Smith, Vermeulen, Deysel
Scrum half, this infatuation with FdP as gods gift to SA rugby going to sink us soon, need some back up, proper scrumhalf backup, Adams, Vermaak, Hougard
The rest I’ve mentioned already. Basson fine prospect at wng, and Steyn/Kirchner at 15,
Pienaar must concentrate and become the link man pivot that he can if given enough confidence to perfect his game.
4 Jul 2009, 21:50 pm
#80 JL1: So much made of the history, the honour, the priviledge, well stuff that, it’s bullsh!@t. Bunch of whinging prats. It’s degenerated the whole thing.
4 Jul 2009, 21:52 pm
I mean denigrated.
4 Jul 2009, 21:52 pm
ek weet nie wat kla party mense nie. ons het die B & I Lions gewen in ‘n reeks.
4 Jul 2009, 21:56 pm
#82 skopskiet: I agree, but I was hoping that the new generation would have been putting up their hands by now and only Brussouw has done so
No locks or props to speak of, the backline is OK imho
4 Jul 2009, 22:00 pm
Roll out the excuses. Warm up a few for the TriN.
Oh bugger, we have 2 home matches vs ABs. Wont be able to use that one.
Oh sh*t, we start at home and have the most favourable travel schedule. Wont be able to use that one.
Hey, our squad is the most experienced and have won Series vs Lions and won the S14. Wont be able to use that one.
Thank Got PdV is such a clown. We can always use that one.
And theres that old favourite of ours. The cheating oppopsition, refs, citing commissioners and global persecution conspiracies. Cheats the lot of em.
Fellas, I think we’re ready for the TriN. Lets get the real games on the road.
4 Jul 2009, 22:12 pm
#87 WakaNathan: You clown.
You missed a few but thanks anyway.
4 Jul 2009, 22:15 pm
#87 WakaNathan: I am sure your name is actually wh@nker
4 Jul 2009, 22:16 pm
#73 skopskiet: Disillusioned little man.
4 Jul 2009, 22:18 pm
#86 JL1: Howzit, ek is lekker teleurgesteld vandag.
JF, WO, Zane en Morne het nie ‘n goeie games gehad nie, maar hulle sal nog regkom.
Maar ek stem saam – ek sien nie te veel van die volgende geslag nie.
4 Jul 2009, 22:18 pm
#90 thefeather: you’re an idiot prick second to none. fckwit
4 Jul 2009, 22:20 pm
“The Springboks suffered their worst ever defeat to the British & Irish Lions when they went down 28-9 on Saturday. It was also the first time they had lost at Ellis Park since 2001.”
4 Jul 2009, 22:34 pm
#93 TheTackler: You are SO ready with the Facts,somebody got to give you a little golden star.
4 Jul 2009, 22:37 pm
Can someone tell Snor the Schmuck he is and is and always will be a c*ck or should I?
4 Jul 2009, 22:37 pm
PDV is a fool. you dont test a persons aptitude for test rugby by making wholesale changes and giving the entire B side a run. you intorudce them one or 2 at a time and make sure they are surrounded by experienced players the way jake introduced players like habana, steyn etc. he took his fringe players and set them up for failure today. the pack was completely dominated and this left the backline with a terrible platform from which to try and perform.
this was a big mistake on PDV part and to blame the players is just lame. he needs to take full responsibility for the poor result today. but at least he can weigh it against the first series victory over the lions since the 80′s.
i know we have the players to win the tri nations, but it will be a miracle if we manage it given our inconsistency at the moment.
4 Jul 2009, 22:42 pm
#96 munkiboi: yep. Snor R monkeyboy. Can we all agree now please
4 Jul 2009, 22:46 pm
#89 JL1:
Im not familiar with the word but in Aotearoa we would pronounce that ‘fanker’
so fank you very much.
#88 thefeather:
I only had 10mins to think, otherwise Id still be here.
4 Jul 2009, 22:54 pm
boks lost today because of poor team selection…
lions lost 2nd test due to poor team selection…
boks won the series – YAHOOoooooooooo, whoop whoop
*
despite having tackler on board NZ were dumped out of the last rwc by france again…
dubliner and his/her obsessed ranting obviously hasn’t heard any irishman jokes…
4 Jul 2009, 22:55 pm
#98 WakaNathan: Aotearoa translation: we stop eating long pig for money to sit on our a$$es
4 Jul 2009, 23:03 pm
#58 Sheriff:
bullsh!t
you’re sounding
like a pom
no worse
the worst
thing
is to win
a series
three zip
omg
jeez
4 Jul 2009, 23:10 pm
#48 cab: He is undoubtedly the best the Kiwis & Ozzies have ever had.
4 Jul 2009, 23:28 pm
Never all that how strong is Heinrich Brossouw ???? Wow I was impressed with his upper body strength !!!
4 Jul 2009, 23:30 pm
man
f*ck
this de villiers
the aa
appointed
coach
is our problem
he
must
eff off
i know
politics
wont allow it
and he
sees himself
as
untouchable
i believe
he is
let’s hope and
pray
his untouchability
won’t
let him
stuff up
the
tri-nations
4 Jul 2009, 23:36 pm
It is obvious to anyone who knows rugby that the Lions have been the superior coached unit throughout the series.
They have had a visible and coherent pattern of play.
The Boks have had the better individuals, in particular the wingers and finishing.
I don’t think it would be fair to judge any of the Boks on show today withregards to their aptitude and future at international level.
Twakkie suggested on the telly that “S14 is not Test rugby”.
Well Twakkie….it’s not frikken school boy rugby either. So if you could star adding some value and tactical awareness…feel free to jump in anytime soon.Now that you have a clearer picture,ne?
It is very worring times if you are a Bok fan because you just do not know what you are going to get on any given Saterday.
I am not optimistic about the tri-nations at all.
Incedently….that’s 3 home losses now in less than 2 full seasons.
Under White the Boks lost 3 at home in 4 seasons if I remember correctly.
4 Jul 2009, 23:43 pm
Sheriff, watse kak praat jy? Klink my, jy het jou opinie verander. Waarsku net, want ek praat nie met liegbekke nie.
4 Jul 2009, 23:45 pm
#105 St.Petersburgbok: A superior coached unit will win!!! They lost the series!!! Stop talking **** you ****!
4 Jul 2009, 23:50 pm
#107 Ed_die_Leeu:
keep living the dream fckwit
4 Jul 2009, 23:52 pm
The key sentence there i ‘we need to respect our own ball’ if Smit means that, then that will be a positive from this…
Steyn (F) proved that he can run the ball from full back, why not a little bit of variety…
5 Jul 2009, 00:10 am
#107 Ed_die_Leeu: Ed congratulations on winning the SuperBru.
5 Jul 2009, 00:13 am
Afternoon all.
Well I hope PDV learnt something out of this game.
Steyn is a 15 end of story
J Fourie should start somewhere if not center then wing.
M steyn good back up to Pienaar
Pienaar is a 10 not 9.
Bakkies is huge for Boks and was missed big time.
# 8 still a problem I like Vermeulen
Also if you are 15 -6 down and you get a shot at goal take it
Taking the linout and then spinning the ball against a team that was defending well was an error, which ended up in the intercept
Taken the 3 points mena tnot intercept 2 more penelties would have brought us level.
Should be a very even tri-nations
5 Jul 2009, 00:14 am
Hey Soda howzit
5 Jul 2009, 00:15 am
#43 Sheriff:
you are joking right?
So what you are saying the Boks always play there A teams and not the A team at Tri nationhs,cos the way i see it,if you field your best team,you are really expecting them to win it.
Now i see that the Boks have there best chance to win the 3N and you now believe that this is the only year they will try and win,what a laod of bull.Making excuses for all the wooden spoons the Boks have rightfully earned.
To me if you think what you said,dont bother watching the 3N then,its a waste of time if the boks dont try and win it.Start watching in 2011 at RWC time seen as you think thats the only tournament
5 Jul 2009, 00:16 am
#113 Hurricane:
Should say “Boks always play there B teams and not the A team at Tri nations”
5 Jul 2009, 00:19 am
#114 Hurricane:
Hi there .
ABs need Carter and Richie back big time
Your forwards may struggle a bit this year
Also Svivatu should be back.
I predict a close trinations
Dont write off Aussies
5 Jul 2009, 00:20 am
#115 CoachPete: Hello Pete. I agree bud. Totally.
Looking forward to it. But we better find a front row quick sticks.
5 Jul 2009, 00:23 am
#116 SodaJoe:
Yes i agree
I am not sure J smit is a prop I think a specialist prop should play there but again how do you leave of Bismark
The beast is good but not fantastic as many seem to think
Again that should be reviewed
Chilly boi well I think Kuhn is better by far
5 Jul 2009, 00:27 am
#115 CoachPete:
nope
The Ozzies i will never write off ,as a matter of fact i will not write off any of the 3N teams.Unlike alot on here seem to have the 3N trophy in the Cabinet 2 days ago.Seem a couple have come out to talk on the thread but a few probably still having problems with their internet connection
Just dont like some on here explaining the losses the boks have had in the tri nations due to them just using the 3N for warm up games to the RWC.Rubbish talk,no guts to come out and say that the other teams were better than there team
5 Jul 2009, 00:28 am
#117 CoachPete: I think Smit needs to go. A faithful, fantastic servant to the game. A credit to his family, country and the game.
It happens to all of us.
Bismark is a better hooker (and a way bigger doos – border line liability). We need a strong back-up. Kuhn is the Schalk Brits of the North. The Cheater Teletubby cousins are too pap. Wepennar would have been great but he gave up and left.
CJ, BJ and Werner Kruger are better Tight Heads than Smit who was to all intents totally murdered ala Donut Dunning by Sheridan.
5 Jul 2009, 00:32 am
#118 Hurricane:
Good or bad.
Well as you know my internet is fine and happy to talk about boks
Hey to honest I am worried about our depth and selection of players in some positions
I have shouted out Brussow’s name for 2 years
I am worried about our front row.
also a back up lock
# 8 is still a problem since spies and Kanks can only do well on the front foot, and against ABs and Oz that wont happen.
I would start J Fourie on wing (in place of habana)
5 Jul 2009, 00:33 am
#118 Hurricane: Bud you should be used to the bluster.
There are few students of the game on Keo. Which is largely a bunch of rugby fans with jingoistic tendencies. (and a few total ar$eholes).
This year all 3 teams seem quite even to me. More so than previous years.
5 Jul 2009, 00:34 am
#119 SodaJoe:
Yup but i still like Kuhn
Bismark is needed with Brussow at breakdowns and ok he causes kuk but i like his agression,
Right about the tight heads
5 Jul 2009, 00:36 am
#121 SodaJoe:
You forget all the ones with Bi polar problems
5 Jul 2009, 00:36 am
#120 CoachPete: You and I have been lone rangers up until now for Brussow. He’s a strong bugger for his size.
Vermulen is very very good. Kankowski is rubbish, as is Malteaser Muller – Rossouw i a better lock or Fondse or Sykes.
Disagree about habs.
5 Jul 2009, 00:37 am
#123 CoachPete: That one I like. And he is often right about players. Coaches – not so much.
5 Jul 2009, 00:40 am
#124 SodaJoe:
Yes we have about Brussow
Roussouw is a lock yes ok as a back up can play 8 if needed.
Habana yes hard to drop him but geez J fourie should have a spot somewhere and Pdv aint going to repalce jacobs and Jdv
5 Jul 2009, 00:42 am
#124 SodaJoe:
Plus we both had been shouting for Pienaar at 10 and Steyn at 15 and only now is that happening.
M. Steyn maybe used for some games at some venues
5 Jul 2009, 00:44 am
Ok I am off see you soda
5 Jul 2009, 00:46 am
#120 CoachPete:
i missed last nights game.Saw the other two.Wife kept conplaining about me going to bed at 3.00am the last 2 Saturdays,so wasnt prepared to push for the triple.
So cant really comment on what went a miss with SA last night.
Nz have big problems with no depth.Compared to 2-3 years ago all we have is 22 players that can win against most,but if 3 off those players are missing we start to notice those gaps.
#121 SodaJoe:
Hey Soda
How are you?
I understand,whenever i log onto this site i get prepared to do battle,one of the reasons why i cant keep away.The other is the likes of yourself,coach,ranger,puma bring to the threads.The amount of things i have learnt on this site is unbeliveable.I actually had a good conversation about rugby and SA players to one of my work mates and understaood what he was talking about
5 Jul 2009, 00:46 am
Ok this is the team you need to start going forward, kiss 2007 ‘senior’ boks adieu and goodbye
Heinke/Beast
Liebenburg/Bismark
W.Kruger
Matfield/Bekker
Botha/Fondse/Sykes
Brussow
Smith/Potgieter
Vermeulen/Spies
FdP/Adams/Hougard
Pienaar/M.Steyn
JdV/WO
Jacobs/Fourie
Habana/Basson
JPP
F.Steyn/Kirchner
captain to come from No.7, Smith with VC Potgieter.
5 Jul 2009, 00:52 am
#126 CoachPete: I think Jean has not played well at all.
Jacques Vs Adi – I am an Adi fan, but Mossie is probably better.
Right now I might play Steyn at 12 (I thought he showed some real glimpses of major league talent at 15). Zane is a great fullback.
5 Jul 2009, 00:55 am
#130 skopskiet: I agree bud. Every position.
I would add CJ with Kruger.
Oddjob did a good job to understudy JPP.
Libenberg is better than Kuun. For sure. Not better than Wepenaar.
Heinie Adams needs to be a starter to be considered (see Chiliboy example). I know that you hate Kockott but he is terrific – Vermaak blew his chance.
5 Jul 2009, 00:56 am
#130 skopskiet: I personally agree with captain too. But Matfield will probably take over, and I don’t rate his captaincy.
5 Jul 2009, 00:58 am
#129 Hurricane: Bud. Me too. Sometimes interesting sometimes irritating.
I treat it like a pub. I chat to who I like and ignore who I don’t.
Personally I would really like an expanded Kiwi, Aussie, Brit presence. The banter would be great, and the good of the game could be served.
5 Jul 2009, 01:00 am
Guys I am going to go and have a swim and then go and drink some very good wine on this 4 July.
Go Boks.
Go rugby.
Go fraternity of rugby brothers and sisters.
Well done again Lions (and fans).
See you through the window.
5 Jul 2009, 01:03 am
#135 SodaJoe:
Bye Soda
5 Jul 2009, 01:04 am
#132 SodaJoe:
That bunch as I’ve got it there is perfect, with Smith as captain, and Potgieter to take over later, don’t need Wepener anyway he’s not fit enough, Liebenburg way better, Adams streaks ahead of Kockott a hundred fold and more, in fact Adams to start some games, Hougard also way better than Kockott.
Today they missed Jacobs incisive and creative running big time, he’s the only one we got to unlock defenses him and Pienaar, the others all run JW no brains bash em game style.
Jacobs would have made a huge difference to the no direction back line today, and Morne Steyn showed why he’s not a game breaker just a good solid dependable Nasty Booter type.
Vermeulen must get No.8 ahead of Spies who must come off bench.
2 new props, 2 backup locks, another hooker (Liebenburg) and a Brussow, Smith/Potgieter, Vermeulen back 3 and we are ready to go, start cooking with some gas again.
5 Jul 2009, 01:17 am
#115 CoachPete: Very amusing, don’t right us off, I wouldn’t If I were you considering we are probably fielding our strongest team in eight years, and also probably have our strongest squad that I can remember. I won’t make any predictions other than it will take one damm good team to take us down. And guys, don’t talk down the French tests, the French are tough, well organised and I would be suprised if any NH team could match them this year.
5 Jul 2009, 01:22 am
IF THERES one thing we all agree on is THE PREMIER LEAGUE OF RUGBY IS ABOUT TO START >>>>>>>>>>>THE TRI NATIONS!!!!!!
5 Jul 2009, 01:23 am
although it must be said the Big 3 havent looked as dominant as 2008 maybe their a bit rusty ,time will tell
5 Jul 2009, 01:35 am
Quoting from the Canadian Press “Botha was banned for two weeks after being found guilty of dangerously charging Lions prop Adam Jones. The South Africans lost an appeal against the ruling, and protested against the ban by wearing white armbands carrying the word “Justice” during Saturday’s game.”
I surely thought that the Bakkies incident should’ve motivate the Boks into beating the Lions with a record score.
The opposite happened.
Boks need a shrink – kopdokter – motivational coach.
But then, the Lions defence was exceptional.
Congrats Lions.
5 Jul 2009, 01:39 am
Hehe – IRB to investigate South Africa’s controversial decision to wear armbands in their Test defeat by the Lions.
What’s new…
5 Jul 2009, 01:41 am
#119 SodaJoe: Smit is fine, he went much better against Sheridan than I thought he would and he won’t come up against many better, he certainly wasn’t Donutted. I also get the feeling the team would fall apart without him.
5 Jul 2009, 01:46 am
Mission accomplished, series won and now we can move onto the tri nations tour. This was a dead rubber and a consolation win for the lions end of story.
5 Jul 2009, 01:52 am
#137 skopskiet: agree this was the game for Jacobs, I’m not sure why everyone says Fourie is a much better player, there is a gulf in creative/attacking class there for me.
5 Jul 2009, 02:07 am
#144 pompies: Correct – Though I am worried about our lack of killer instinct. Aus & AB’s would’ve gone for the knock-out. Are we too complacent?
Let me just say that we were beaten by a superior team on the day. Lions denied us a whitewash. Good for them.
5 Jul 2009, 02:28 am
#132 SodaJoe:
how did vermaak blow his chance he was superb all season in the S14, and hasnt been given a chance at international
5 Jul 2009, 02:39 am
#141 Senga: The yarpies put all their anger and rage and energy into making those stupid childish little armbands instead of playing decent rugby. They’ll probably all cop a whack in fines from the IRB as well.
5 Jul 2009, 02:40 am
The start of teh Boks problems today was Johan Muller. If anyone can show me a time in this game where he made a tackle driving an attacker back, or hit a ruck effectively and accurately 9he flops over onto it, not actually cleaning anything). Most of teh time he is not there at all. I would be interested to know what his tackle count wa for this game. Compared to Bakkies for instance.
we did not commit enough forwards to the ruck, and indeed COULD NOT because Muller is a missing man. When Shaw came off for ten minutes with teh yellow card, we could not make the advantage count because effectively what it had done is evened out teh number of effective players on the field. As soson as Shaw came back, we were bullied at the breakdowns. PdV should have played sykes from the word go, as Muller is not a Bok’s ***.
5 Jul 2009, 02:43 am
Saffas, please explain the “justice” armbands. I really hope its not just about Bakkies.
5 Jul 2009, 02:47 am
#17 JockBok: Actually teh Lions were playing the game that I thought the Boks would try.
they were keeping the ball alive, and passing out of the tackle. The tackling “ball and all” by the Boks was bad, allowing them to pass out of the tackle.
Bruyssouw was good- and not bad a runner with the ball either– he runs intelligently into the gaps, making his small size count, as opposed to Smit, Smith and Kanko, who crash ball it with head dowm.
Damn I like this guy…
5 Jul 2009, 02:50 am
#150 Clyde Wombat:
Yeah if it just about Bakkies then thats silly.Normally i see armbands worn in a loss of life,or a disaster leading to loss of life.This has just made the armband thing look really silly.
Suppose the ABs should wear them as well cos Carter is injured.
5 Jul 2009, 02:57 am
#148 TheTackler: lol tackler you just don’t let up do you
5 Jul 2009, 02:58 am
#152 Hurricane: Very good Hurricane. Don’t think you’ll find to many Wallabies wearing “Justice for Lote” armbands, unless they want to join the 03 RWC NZ organising committee, the ARC, Gary Flowers, the Saffa’s 6th S15 team and Lote at the bottom of the harbour…
5 Jul 2009, 03:01 am
#154 Clyde Wombat:
lol
Why bring up RWC damn it!!
5 Jul 2009, 03:06 am
#155 Hurricane: Still no Saffas explaining it to me!
5 Jul 2009, 03:09 am
#130 skopskiet:
good team, but john smit needs to be there his leadership & experience is invaluble
I would look more to a guy like ebersohn, than WO for inside centre backup, come 2009 RWC to also, WO has had his chances and proved he is a good CC and S14 player but not an international player
5 Jul 2009, 03:11 am
We need to find a lock of international class and get him in here ASAP, and get him blooded. Muller is not, and Bakkies and Matfield are going to bugger off soon.
Did anyone notice how the Boks intensity at the breakdown was very similar to that of the Sharks? Does anyone else here besides me reckon its because we have the same lock (Muller) playing?
5 Jul 2009, 03:20 am
#148 TheTackler: Would not be surprised if SA get fined for the wearing of the armbands. The IRB will not tollerate this “arrogant” behaviour from SA -got to discipline these lowly scum from down south, being their attitude. How do we dare to win these holy Lions and so on…
Fine us as much as you want. History will tell we “unfairly” beat the superiour unfortunate, bullied, unlucky and cheated Lions in the good year of 2009.
Fines can not rewrite history.
5 Jul 2009, 03:29 am
#158 SjamBok: ja muller is useless didnt see him do anything in the game, kanko avoided rucks though to and is always in the backline, …
we need to bring in Fondse & mostert (when hes fit)
deysel or vermulen for kanko
5 Jul 2009, 03:49 am
#154 Clyde Wombat: No, I think Lote should have reinvented himself as either Full back or outside Ctr. He’s too slow now for wing, especially when we have Digby, Hynes, Mitchell and Turner, What do you thnk?
5 Jul 2009, 03:58 am
Great series, great rugby. The Lions deserved the victory though that cheating c@nt of Dicko could have stopped a lot of niggle and bad sportmanship. **** jou ma se…
11-3 to Dicko…not a co-incidence anymore you cheating racist idiot…
5 Jul 2009, 04:02 am
I’m not looking forward to the Tri-Nations. I think it’s going to be ugly for us. I hope I’m wrong.
5 Jul 2009, 04:03 am
we won the series with the kakkest coach ever!!!!
5 Jul 2009, 04:05 am
#164 Ed_die_Leeu:
Geluk Ed, met jou Superbru double.
Bly jou ouers het lekker gekuier, en lekker om jou terug te sien!
#159 Senga:
Armbands?
What’s the story, what armbands, sorry I missed that?
5 Jul 2009, 04:12 am
#165 Pietman: #159 Senga:
Ok, I got it now, was about Bakkies, I see.
5 Jul 2009, 04:16 am
#163 sglazer: What worries me is that the senior players dont voice their support for the coach in public…as they used to in the old days…
John Smit having to bail him out during press conferences.
I miss the comradeship and unity between coach/capt/players.
Not good.
5 Jul 2009, 04:27 am
1 Ed_the_Lion 20.0 2.00 22.00
2 SodaJoe 20.0 1.25 21.25
3 Goue Bul 19.5 0.00 19.50
4 blhoo 19.0 0.00 19.00
5 Corndog 16.5 1.25 17.75
6 madasaScot 16.5 1.00 17.50
7 Veltie 17.0 0.00 17.00
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9 Boerboel 16.5 0.00 16.50
Hef 15.5 1.00 16.50
11 croc 16.0 0.00 16.00
EEE 16.0 0.00 16.00
kiwifish 15.5 0.50 16.00
Slak 16.0 0.00 16.00
15 iceman 15.5 0.00 15.50
superBul 15.5 0.00 15.50
ashley 15.5 0.00 15.50
trupisero 15.5 0.00 15.50
SA Barbarian 15.5 0.00 15.50
Sheriff 15.5 0.00 15.50
JimT 14.5 1.00 15.50
22 carol 15.0 0.25 15.25
23 Speenstamp 15.0 0.00 15.00
24 KingPaul 14.5 0.00 14.50
K9 14.5 0.00 14.50
26 wacky 14.0 0.00 14.00
grant 14.0 0.00 14.00
28 CheetahJ 13.5 0.00 13.50
Cereal_Killa 13.5 0.00 13.50
Koos 13.5 0.00 13.50
Turbo Shark 13.5 0.00 13.50
Pietman 13.5 0.00 13.50
33 Ruda 13.0 0.00 13.00
34 Snoek 11.5 0.00 11.50
monk 11.5 0.00 11.50
Clanerk 11.5 0.00 11.50
37 rugby_only 10.5 0.50 11.00
Storm Voort 11.0 0.00 11.00
39 Blouste 10.5 0.00 10.50
40 AB Bullsbok 9.0 0.00 9.00
Alfred E Neuman 9.0 0.00 9.00
42 LongDrop 8.5 0.00 8.50
43 Keenen 8.0 0.00 8.00
Andre_WP 8.0 0.00 8.00
45 Hunter 6.0 0.00 6.00
46 Lucky 5.5 0.00 5.50
47 Bluerugga 4.5 0.00 4.50
48 foow 0.0 0.00 0.00
5 Jul 2009, 04:28 am
#165 Pietman: Dankie my mater!!
5 Jul 2009, 04:37 am
#166 Pietman: Yes Piet – as you already know:
The IRB Council, consists of the eight foundations Unions each with two seats – Scotland, Ireland, Wales, England, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and France. Argentina, Canada, Italy and Japan each have one seat on the Council.
Bit lopsided towards the NH in my opinion. The IRB investigating the wearing of the armbands amuse me. F them.
5 Jul 2009, 04:43 am
#170 Senga:
Let them investigate, who cares?
Did Chilliboy get injured again yesterday?
Has this man ever finished a full match in his life?
He played ok, but he seems a bit injury prone (since his PBH days).
5 Jul 2009, 04:50 am
#171 Pietman: Dunno if he got injured yesterday…think he was just replaced by Bism in a desperate move by PdV to save the match. Chili had numerous probs with his knees in the past.
5 Jul 2009, 04:59 am
#172 Senga:
I listened to the Afr commentary yesterday, no mention of armbands.
But I have just watched the clip on rugbydumpdot com, have you seen it?
Go check Ndugane’s try, even the British commentators thought it was good.
And check Simon Shaw’s blog with Williams’ second try.
But all in all, the Poms deserved this one, though there were a few defining moments (the intercept, for instance, could have been an easy run in for Kirchner).
5 Jul 2009, 05:01 am
Stragglers?
Liebenberg
Wepener
Strauss
Kuun
All world class… not in the 22… but the slowest player ever to grace a test team is… only in Africa!
5 Jul 2009, 05:08 am
#173 Pietman: Niks fout met Ndugane’s try nie – about 1 duim speling tussen sy regter boot en die tryline. Bryce Lawrence het seker die 3N in gedagte gehad toe hy sy beslissing gegee het.
Ja, sou geen verskil aan uitslag maak nie, maar sou die statistiek verbeter.
5 Jul 2009, 05:11 am
#175 Senga: tryline = kantlyn
5 Jul 2009, 05:17 am
#175 Senga:
Ja, sy voet was in die lug toe hy uitgaan, en daai lyn is moerse breed ook.
5 Jul 2009, 05:30 am
#177 Pietman: Thanks for introducing me to rugbydump.com. Lotsa stuff there to investigate.
Been awake now for almost 25 hrs. Got to hit the couch.
good night
5 Jul 2009, 05:36 am
#178 Senga:
Yes, good site that, for a quick round-up of the games.
G’nite, check you later.
5 Jul 2009, 05:50 am
#167 Senga: Too much just doesn’t make sense. Success usually comes by chance in these circumstances, not through conscious design. Not looking good, i.e. not looking expansive, positive.
5 Jul 2009, 08:49 am
You guys might be just a tad too harsh on PdV. With the luxury of a dead rubber, he did show us today that there are several players in the Boks side that are not worthy of playing in the 3N. He will surely have noticed the ill discipline of Brussouw and will chew him out for being overamped and giving away 3 points under the poles at a crucial moment.
Seems like Spies has taken on Bakkies role and within minutes of coming he was in there with Brussouw doing wedgies on Martyn Williams and then retaliating on Phillips ON OUR TRYLINE. Dumb from a player at this level – not sure of that world’s greatest #8 he gives himself. If he is so good, why was playing on the wing anyway?
No, all in all a good reality check for the Boks. We are not as good as we make out to be and in the humility ranks we really suck – the Lions actually outscored us 74-63 and by 7-5 tries in the tests series and deserve some respect even if we did manage a 2-1 series win at home.
5 Jul 2009, 08:54 am
It is silly to take the Bok team apart.The coaching staff
made a fundamental error in exposing the world’s finest
scrum half again to unnecessary thuggery.
everybody with half a brain knows that FDP is worth his weight
in gold.
With the series won he should have given a well earned rest.
This man is the master,does not suffer from brain farts
like Burger,Brussow and Bismarck.
I see the day coming that somebody is going to lose his
cool and put Bismark down and out.He can thank his lucky star
he is not playing in the days of Geldenhuys (both of them)
or Kevin de Klerk and some others whose names I forget.
He and others would have needed expansive dental surgery by now.
The fact is without Du Preez the team is unable to adapt
and rather dies then to put a specialized scrum half on the
field.
Pienaar looked rusted and out of touch behind a struggling
pack.You cannot call them stragglers,they were going
backwards at the rate of knots.They simply looked lost
without a plan and with slow ball,there was no Habana on the
field with a couple of miracle rescue tries.
5 Jul 2009, 08:55 am
#181 out wide:
The Lions series is not about tries, its about winning and attritional rugby.
The Boks scored far more points and tries in 97 than the Lions did, with the Lions squeezing the first two tests, no-one remembers that. The only thing remembered is who won the series.
Well done Coach Peter. Now go win a 3N.
5 Jul 2009, 09:00 am
Sodajoe,
Going to disagree on Smit.
I also thought maybe John Smit was getting a bit long in the tooth and off the pace, but he was ouststanding in this series. His scrumming, tightloose play, ball carrying and captaincy were all excellent and probably was the difference between the two sides ultimately.
Reckon its the most committed i’ve seen John Smit play and get the feeling he wanted to win this very dearly. Well done.
5 Jul 2009, 09:04 am
#183 cab: Unless I am suffering from Alzheimers by then, I will remember it as a close run series.
5 Jul 2009, 09:12 am
Yep we know who the real stragler is!! That lion gouging mechanic needs to take a step back off a cliff.
Kiwibok
5 Jul 2009, 09:33 am
#92 skopskiet: Ha ha ha…Skopskiet, you’re clearly showing your wrong side of the tracks pedigree again, as you have been for quite a while now when someone disagrees with you. Sorry I didn’t stay up last night to await that little piece of vitriolic wisdom, but I have a life beyond accounting, late night chat rooms and posting misguided rugby “advice” about team selections.
Responding like you did removes any last semblance of credibility you ever might have had. Either stop drinking so late at night or grow up, you are not the only person entitled to an opinion on this site.
5 Jul 2009, 09:44 am
#7 mbaxman93:
Did you not notice how hard Jaque Fourie was working on defense? He also won 2 turnovers that a player like Brussouw would’ve beeen proud of. Watch the match again and you’ll see every single time Olivier received the ball from Steyn he either ran straight into contact without passing or he skipped pass Fourie to Kirschner or Nokwe. The only time Jaque Fourie did get passed the ball was when Olivier passed to Fourie running on the angle and then he was high tackled by Philips and that run looked pretty threatening. So i don’t think you should be saying that Fourie didn’t show why he should be selected for the starting 15…he did more in yesterdays game than Jacobs did the whole series…and thats true!
5 Jul 2009, 09:47 am
#187 thefeather:
You actually take this ‘coloured’ oke that makes his living out of paying Africans slave wages (bread/water) seriously?
The man is a parasite!
5 Jul 2009, 09:49 am
#189 money_man: Nah, I don’t take him seriously at all, I actually laugh at his self-proclaimed wisdom. It’s the personal insults I take offence to. But I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, I’ve seen him here for a long time doing the same thing to others.
5 Jul 2009, 09:58 am
Gentlemen,
Skop’s #82 was a very accurate assessment of the player pool and I can find no fault with it. Names we can discuss.
I would only add that you can have the best players on tap, but without a coach we are going nowhere. This team isn’t growing on-field, it’s going backwards.
Now I know he won’t agree to me adding this to his post and thats fine, but we need to bring JW in as DOR. He must work with PdV and new assistants. The self-belief of the team being destroyed in the media needs to be worked on and we will be a far way to turning this around. (It was clear to everyone and from his facial expressions that FdP didn’t feel like playing yesterday and so there must have been many others).
5 Jul 2009, 09:58 am
#87 WakaNathan:
100% correct whacko.
us thieving, conniving saffas should take a leaf out of the nz/ab book.
wouldn’t it be wonderful to be so pure, pious and morally untarnished.
how do you guys do it? please, give us a hint.
5 Jul 2009, 10:07 am
#167 Senga: Thats true- worrying.
At the top levels of the sport, there is nowhere to hide. If Snor cannot cut it this Trinatins, then he must go. Before its too late for the next RWC. Get Jake back to prove what he can do…. let him shut up all his detractors on this site hey Skop?
5 Jul 2009, 10:07 am
#191 Bul-a-Bhloo:
i know
it won’t
happen
but snorre
must eff-off
the guy
is as
thick as
pig ****
he is
a political
appointment
a dumbo
of the
first degree
5 Jul 2009, 10:09 am
#191 Bul-a-Bhloo: We have the same type of play as under Jake white, but worse defence and less organisation at ruck time. We dont have the organisation in the first three phases.
5 Jul 2009, 10:59 am
#183 cab:
Actually as I recall it was – ‘we lost the Lions series through poor kicking…….that was the only reason……we scored more tries, we were the better team……if only our kicking was better’.
Well this time you were outscored on tries and the Lions also scored more points. This despite the Boks having better kicking.
What it proves then as it does now is that you just dont know how to acknowledge the opposition were, simply, better. In ’97 the Boks lost but, we were told, they were still better. Well I reckon the same logic can be applied here and that the Lions had the better team. They had longer periods of domination throughout the 3 Tests.
#192 charo:
So says the team who uses the word ‘Justice’ not for a major catastrophe or a historical grievance or the death of an activist……no, no, no……..it was for a fellow player and his long-overdue banning (and not his 1st for this offence) for a flying-headbutt. So what were the Boks telling us with this message ? Oh, theyre not saving Bakkies, theyre saving RUGBY !!!
Tell me Charo, what is more pious and righteous than that ?!
This after a solid week of labelling the Lions as ‘whingers’. Oh, is this NOT whinging ? In the same week the Boks had a player for eye-gouging.
I hope the Boks have the book chucked at them. If the ABs did that to the jersey, I would want them publicly lynched.
5 Jul 2009, 11:03 am
It will go down in History that the Boks biggest loss to the lions was at Ellis Park 2009. It will not say that the Lions played a 2nd Bok side. History will just say Lions thrashed the Boks at Ellis Park 2009.
A stadium that we have been so proud of where we have gotten more wins than any other. Think that is all gone now. We can thank PdV for that.
How PdV can select a 2nd team to play in a Test at Ellis Park and against a Lions side was actually sad really. We should always pride ourselves and play the best in a series like this. It cheapens the Bok Jersey and it shows he probably does not have as much respect for the jersey as the players or supporters do.
Fringe players should have got a chance off the bench and NEVER to start.
Zane I thought was superb in the S14 but in the E. Boks and yesterday proved he has a long way to go yet to play for the Boks. Odwa, Nokwe too. Probably WO as well. Chilli was okay but we struggled in the scrums without Bissie.
Once Frans Steyn came on at FB it showed he is world class. Just hope PdV still selects him now that he is going to play overseas. Think he is going to be our very best FB ever.
We let a great, great opportunity slip us by yesterday by just giving anyone a game and not the best. Missed seeing two of my favourite Boks playing. Habs and JPP has to start always. Probably the two best wings in the world and just left out. Crazy.
A real waste of time going to the game too. Will never ever go again if the BEST is not selected. NEVER.
5 Jul 2009, 11:08 am
Skops and Soda – most sense for some time but to pick Liebenberg and drop Smit (for the untested Kruger – as a reserve, sure); feeling OK? Liebs was OK in a hopeless WP but rather take Kuun or even the Lions hooker surely.
My old rant. Generally the players have the talent. We are short of a reliable kicker (Percy style) and a stand out flyhalf (although Penaar Steyn is OK). Lock is a problem. We seem to have a love affair with big loose forwards who cannot match beasts like Thorne and that filthy Pom (except for Bakkies).
Then the coaching. Fine to criticise Bekker, Matfield, Muller for floating around on the wing but they need to be given a plan. Secure ball on the ground. The backs – don’t kick the ball away unless you want to spend time under the goalposts.
I felt analysis of the Lions was poor. 1st test the SA scrum caught them out. Their backline skill and rush defence caught SA. 2nd test we should have known they would beef up their set scrum and we should have had a tactic for their rush defence, chip, lie deeper if Adi is going to run or only F Steyn and J Fourie run (big boys). 3rd test we must of known they would come out firing so don’t kick the ball to them. Surely, work the phases and ensure support for the ball carrier. Attack from deep. Don’t kick the effing ball to them!
Muliaina, Smith, Giteau, Barnes et al will punish the Boks if they persist.
5 Jul 2009, 11:23 am
#196 WakaNathan: if you take the first two tests where our first team played we actually out scored the lions on tries 5-4, in addition we won the series. So in the end of the day we were the better team. One can’t take into account the total try tally when our coach decides to field a second team in the final test.
5 Jul 2009, 11:25 am
#198 husky: I’d say that Morne is a very reliable kicker
5 Jul 2009, 11:43 am
#185 out wide:
you mean like the 97 series?
#196 WakaNathan:
yeah well if the lions kicking was better in the 2nd one, they would have won, ifs and buts count for ****, as has been said, its the result that counts, 2-1.
you want to play pretty rugby great, i love to watch it, but thats why you aint won no proper world cups.
by your logic i would say the french are a better team that the ABs cos they had long periods of domination and should’ve won the second test too.
5 Jul 2009, 11:43 am
Good luck to the Lions. Although they managed to smack the Bok around in this test, they clearly were the inferior team and squad all round.
It was a case of SA taking its eye off the ball in a big way rather than a consummate performance by The Old Red…. but Shane Williams,
Jamie Heaslip,
One of Ngati Porou’s finest Ricky Flutey,
Mike Philips,
Ugo well spotted
the irish fullback Kearney went very well indeed.
PdV hasn’t had as much success as Henry at pulling off exposing inexperienced test players to a formidable opponent desperate to win.
With great sides, in the back of your mind, you expect them to win even if they are well behind on the scoreboard. The Boks have a way to go before they engender that feeling.
It will be between SA and NZ who is the best side in the world this year. Both sides could improve immensely. Not sure whether Australia can rise as much. They will be more dangerous early.
5 Jul 2009, 11:45 am
#197 Puma:
It will go down as a 2-1 series win to the Boks.
Do you remember the score of the 3rd test in 97?
The Bokke annihilated the poms and i bet you as a Bok supporter dont remember or care about that result.
5 Jul 2009, 11:54 am
In 97 the Bok outcored the BIL by 66-59 and 9 tries to 3, not sure what point ppl are trying to make?
5 Jul 2009, 11:54 am
#203 cab: How you my friend. Hope Paris is hot. Bloody freezing here in Joburg.
Think we beat them 26/16 something like that. Really cant remember. You may be right but their coach such a big song about beating us at Ellis Park. Saying All Blacks and France have ever beat the Boks at Ellis Park once and now the Lions have done it twice and he was so proud of that.
We would have had a far, far better chance to beat them if we had our best playing. It was a test for goodness sake. A huge test really. If we beat them it would have been the first whitewash ever.
It just showed no respect to the jersey, or the venue, or to the Lions team by just playing fringe players and some getting a Bok Cap for the first time. Should never happen in a test of that magnitude.
I for one will never ever go again if we don’t have our best playing. Not ever. Waste of time and a waste of a day really. I froze my bloody butt of too. Damn freezing there yesterday…hehehe.
5 Jul 2009, 11:59 am
#202 lapoftherugbygods: After watching Oz play against the French. I think they are the team to watch in the Tri-Nations this year. Then again never underestimate the All Blacks they always seem to just play brilliant when they are wearing the jersey.
5 Jul 2009, 12:24 pm
#205 Puma:
hello puma, nope it was 35-16, a big one with something like 5 tries. no-one remembers or really cares, all we remember is the lions won the series.
yip its boiling over here in paris, my sister tells me its so cold on joburg, the difference is hard to believe, but suppose you guys only have put up with it for a couple of months whereas a NH winter is truly a kak thing.
5 Jul 2009, 12:27 pm
#199 byoboy:
Yep, it seems that square peg will always fit in the round hole, huh.
#201 cab:
You seem to deal in alot of grey territory, whatever suits the conditions aye.
Results count for everything as you say. So just as long as you avoid SA vs NZ you should be fine.
JUSTICE !
But you already said that about the French, without substantiating at all. There were no disallowed tries. No lack of camera angles. No RCs that werent.
Oh, theres that grey area again…
JUSTICE, I say !
5 Jul 2009, 12:34 pm
This Boks team missed a great opportunity to go down in history as the ONLY team to have whitewashed the Lions in SA.
PDV underestimted the Lions and paid a massive price. He has missed a place in history. He may have learnt to respect his opposition in the process. History teaches that small percentages over the opposition often mean a lot in the final analyis of a test match against a team like the Lions. Always go with your best starting XV!!!!
That was far from the best XV that SA could muster to take the field for that fateful match yesterday which must have left millions of Bok fans feeling very let down.
5 Jul 2009, 12:34 pm
#207 cab: You are right we only will remember the win. Just after hearing their coach saying how great it was to win at Ellis and that hardly anyone wins there. Only the ABs and French once now them twice it was very special to them.
Ag, its over so have to forget about it. I expected a big hiding yesterday with all the changes. That team only were in training from Monday too. It was never going to work.
Only thing is Frans Steyn has proved he is our FB. I know he had a bit of off the ball stuff in the end but he was superb when he came on.
I am just up here from Umhlanga and its around 25 with full sun when I left this week. To hit Joburg with the 2 temps at night PHEW!!!!!!!! Thats freezing for me. Yesterday at the game it was a bit windy and felt freezing although it was temp was around 12 or something like that. Not used to it that cold.
Paris is a awesome city. Especially in the summer. You lucky oke…hehe to live there. Enjoy it.
5 Jul 2009, 12:38 pm
#208 WakaNathan:
what you talking about, there was a disallowed try in the 3rd test, by your man bryce lawrence, for stepping into touch which was clearly a try. You boys are so subserviant to the NH, its not even true, no wonder the IRB is dominated by the northern poofdas, no backbone down south anymore it seems.
5 Jul 2009, 12:41 pm
LETS BOYCOTT THE 3 HOME TRI-NATIONS TESTS
OWING TO THE EXTREME GREAD OF SARFU(IN SETTING LIONS TEST TICKETS AT R1 140) LETS ALL NOT ATTEND THE 3 TRI NATIONS GAMES….THEY DESERVE TO GET WHAT THEY GIVE!!
5 Jul 2009, 12:41 pm
#209 wardie: Good post. Agree. We really did miss a great opportunity in history there.
Really don’t think PdV even cared if we lost or won yesterday. Think he has his mind on the Tri-Nations and was trying out players there. Really not good enough to do that in a huge test like that. Not fair the supporters that spent huge amounts of money to go the test to see a Boks play Lions and it was our 2nd side. To pay that money we want to see the best and all the time.
I will never go to watch the Boks again unless we field the very best.
5 Jul 2009, 12:46 pm
#199 byoboy:
Yep, it seems that square peg will always fit in the round hole, huh.
#201 cab:
You seem to deal in alot of grey territory, whatever suits the conditions aye.
Results count for everything as you say. So just as long as you avoid SA vs NZ you should be fine.
JUSTICE !
But you already said that about the French, without substantiating at all. There were no disallowed tries. No lack of camera angles. No RCs that werent.
Oh, theres that grey area again…
Dont listen to me, heres todays Times:-
“Peter de Villiers, the South Africa coach, began the week by demeaning the game with his refusal to condemn eye-gouging. He demeaned the Springbok jersey by leaving out some leading players. In the second half, in a panic, he brought on the fifth cavalry, only to find that their bugle was silenced.
South Africa wore armbands in support, so they said, of Bakkies Botha, who was suspended after the second Test. Botha’s suspension was then confirmed by an independent tribunal, and Adam Jones, the Lions prop whom Botha illegally charged, could be out of the game for nine months. The sheer inappropriate pomposity of South Africa’s gesture took the breath away, and they should remember that their status as world champions conveys a responsibility to the game at large, not simply to one player.”
Spot on. I lost some respect for Smit and the Boks yest.
JUSTICE, I say !
5 Jul 2009, 12:49 pm
#214 WakaNathan:
i aint for one minute going to back the NH on this, i personally would not have warn armbands, but their whinging and bitching and double standards where SA in concerned, i’ve had enough of. if you going to ban Botha fine, fine, but do it based on dirty play, not on your own perceied view of his reputation.
5 Jul 2009, 13:01 pm
#215 cab:
double standards. Quite.
Botha was cited. Banned. Appeal overruled.
For dangerous play. That resulted in a serious injury.
What do you not understand ?
5 Jul 2009, 13:02 pm
#216 WakaNathan:
that every lockforward in existence cleans out rucks in precisely that manner.
what do you not understand?
5 Jul 2009, 13:12 pm
#217 cab:
Cited.
Banned.
Appeal overruled.
Condemned by the IRB.
Banned for exactkly the same offence last season (Mortlock taken out).
You dont need to be a rugby player to understand that.
5 Jul 2009, 13:12 pm
#216 WakaNathan: You quite obviously dont watch much rugby, or have much actual rugby nous.
Even the head of referees worlwide, a kiwi, said there was nothing to cite for.
If this ruling was upheld in every game there would be no-one left to play the games.
Now, which part of this dont you understand? Tjop!
5 Jul 2009, 13:14 pm
#217 cab: Let him go Cab, he’s clutching at straws, posting the same thing on every page. If Heaslip had broken 3 of Smith’s ribs in his IDENTICAL clean out yesterday, what would he say then, especially in light of the fact that there has been no citing or even mention of the incident. Fact of the matter is, if Jones wasn’t injured (and indeed badly positioned to defend the ruck as his own teammates even admitted), the Bakkies incident would not even have made page 3.
It’s done now, let it go and let this bloke trawl all he wants.
5 Jul 2009, 13:25 pm
Perhaps this totally unfair citing and victimisation of a perfectly good clean by Bakkies, had more far reaching consequences for the Boks mindset than just wearing white bands.
Perhaps confusion and trepidation as to what had occured, and the resulting farce, contributed to the Boks not turning up physically in force at the collission points?
Just a thought.
5 Jul 2009, 13:28 pm
#220 thefeather:
yeah you exactly right, but apparently ‘we’ cant understand that, cos ‘we’ are so one-eyed.
sounds like he needs to get his frickin eyes operated on.
5 Jul 2009, 14:05 pm
#222 cab:
No
WE cant understand why Bakkies was banned.
so WE need to be told by the Worldwide audience of tv with pompous armbands.
because WE are so 1-eyed that only bringing ito to our attention will Save Rugby.
Pathetic.#219 Mistral:
I have no doubt Ive been watching rugby than you are old.
Which is probably why you are willing to blindly support it. Why ? because its the Boks. Boks must be better and less ignorant than us other plebs so thats why theyve done it, to teach us ignorant heathens The Way.
5 Jul 2009, 16:20 pm
#223 WakaNathan:
You’re still whinging! Get a life
5 Jul 2009, 17:43 pm
#223 WakaNathan: Hey mate, how you doing? I don’t think there’s anything wrong with showing solidarity with a team-mate….what’s so pompous about it? This area (the breakdown) is a major concern, whoever is on the receiving end of unjust censure…
5 Jul 2009, 22:11 pm
P Divvy YOU are the straggler.
YOU are the weakest link.
But you can stay, because you won the series!
Thank You!
6 Jul 2009, 10:39 am
Before the test series and during the series allt the supporters wanted that team of saturday.this is what you wanted
Wyanand – inform centre
fourie – far better than jacobs.
morne- best fly-half in SA
Bakkies could not play.
Now t6hat we have our team we complain
6 Jul 2009, 15:37 pm
WO is only a good S14 player, KAK international player !!!!
6 Jul 2009, 18:02 pm
#224 rich1:
#225 Atreides:
No wonder Rich1 wants the neutrals to shut up, because the same tune is deafening elsewhere…….a few extracts from the papers:-
“Smit is a great Springbok captain, but the halo slipped at Ellis Park with his advocacy of the “Justice 4 Bakkies Botha” white armband protest, and a stronger coach with better judgement than De Villiers would have nipped it in the bud. He would have also told his bench to stop larking around on the pitch like kids minutes before the kick-off of a test in which they were given a lesson by a Lions side playing for pride.”
“Former Springbok coach Nick Mallett got it right after the Johannesburg defeat when he said that one of South Africa’s biggest problems is that they “get ahead of themselves”. There is a lack of humility, with too many players being touted as better than they are, and there is also a reckoning coming with many of the 2007 World Cup and 2009 Lions series veterans reaching their motivational sell-by date.”
“There was dirty play and the preposterous reaction to it from the South African camp. ”
“South Africa wore armbands in support, so they said, of Bakkies Botha, who was suspended after the second Test. Botha’s suspension was then confirmed by an independent tribunal, and Adam Jones, the Lions prop whom Botha illegally charged, could be out of the game for nine months. The sheer inappropriate pomposity of South Africa’s gesture took the breath away, and they should remember that their status as world champions conveys a responsibility to the game at large, not simply to one player.”
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