PdV: Defeat exposed stragglers
4 Jul 2009
Peter de Villiers cited the coming Tri-Nations as motivation for making 10 changes ahead of the dead rubber in Johannesburg.
The Springboks suffered their worst ever defeat to the British & Irish Lions when they went down 28-9 on Saturday. It was also the first time they had lost at Ellis Park since 2001.
Injuries forced the Lions to field a vastly changed side, but before the game, De Villiers explained his own eight changes as an opportunity to field fringe players. It was more important to give the youngsters an opportunity than to push for an unprecedented whitewash over the northerners.
‘We’re grateful we’ve won the series. When we sat down before the series, we said this was one of our goals. I’ve always said the Lions are a brilliant team and they showed it [on Saturday],’ De Villiers told keo.co.za.
‘How will we know [if the youngsters are good enough] if we don’t give them a chance? This was very important with the Tri-Nations just around the corner. We’ve learned a lot.’
De Villiers refused to single out players that have effectively ruled themselves out of the Sanzar tournament with an awful showing at Ellis Park.
‘It’s not in my principles to discuss players here. But I now have a clearer idea in my head of who they are.’
Bok captain John Smit explained the Boks wore white armbands in a show of solidarity for the banned Bakkies Botha. The irony was the belligerent Boks were outbullied on the day, with the Lions forwards the more intense unit.
‘I suppose you could say it was a distraction now, but there’s no excuse, we were poor,’ he said. ‘I’m experiencing some mixed emotions right now, but to be frank they were all over us at the contact area. Their counter-rucking was great and we didn’t respect our own ball enough. We need to learn from that going forward.
‘But if you had to said to me the series would have been 2-1 beforehand, I would have taken it. The Lions series was always going to be our priority this year and it’s been an amazing experience. To win a series, for me, is right up there with [winning] the World Cup.’
The Boks have adopted a game-by-game strategy and will only start planning for the Tri-Nations when they reconvene in 10 days time. While Smit said their major objective has already been attained, they are desperate to improve on last year’s dismal showing in the Tri-Nations.
‘I think we let ourselves down last year. This is going to be a colossal tournament and even though it was a priority to win the Lions series, it would be naive to think we couldn’t win the Tri-Nations with the team that we have. We just need to fix the mistakes and produce a better balanced effort.
‘There’s so much to be achieved and this team is young enough to go all the way through to the next World Cup. I’m committed until the end of 2010, so that’s not too far away [from the 2011 World Cup], but I’m going to take it one year at a time.’
By Jon Cardinelli, at Ellis Park
229 Comments
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5 Jul 2009, 02:47 am
#17 JockBok: Actually teh Lions were playing the game that I thought the Boks would try.
they were keeping the ball alive, and passing out of the tackle. The tackling “ball and all” by the Boks was bad, allowing them to pass out of the tackle.
Bruyssouw was good- and not bad a runner with the ball either– he runs intelligently into the gaps, making his small size count, as opposed to Smit, Smith and Kanko, who crash ball it with head dowm.
Damn I like this guy…
5 Jul 2009, 02:50 am
#150 Clyde Wombat:
Yeah if it just about Bakkies then thats silly.Normally i see armbands worn in a loss of life,or a disaster leading to loss of life.This has just made the armband thing look really silly.
Suppose the ABs should wear them as well cos Carter is injured.
5 Jul 2009, 02:57 am
#148 TheTackler: lol tackler you just don’t let up do you
5 Jul 2009, 02:58 am
#152 Hurricane: Very good Hurricane. Don’t think you’ll find to many Wallabies wearing “Justice for Lote” armbands, unless they want to join the 03 RWC NZ organising committee, the ARC, Gary Flowers, the Saffa’s 6th S15 team and Lote at the bottom of the harbour…
5 Jul 2009, 03:01 am
#154 Clyde Wombat:
lol
Why bring up RWC damn it!!
5 Jul 2009, 03:06 am
#155 Hurricane: Still no Saffas explaining it to me!
5 Jul 2009, 03:09 am
#130 skopskiet:
good team, but john smit needs to be there his leadership & experience is invaluble
I would look more to a guy like ebersohn, than WO for inside centre backup, come 2009 RWC to also, WO has had his chances and proved he is a good CC and S14 player but not an international player
5 Jul 2009, 03:11 am
We need to find a lock of international class and get him in here ASAP, and get him blooded. Muller is not, and Bakkies and Matfield are going to bugger off soon.
Did anyone notice how the Boks intensity at the breakdown was very similar to that of the Sharks? Does anyone else here besides me reckon its because we have the same lock (Muller) playing?
5 Jul 2009, 03:20 am
#148 TheTackler: Would not be surprised if SA get fined for the wearing of the armbands. The IRB will not tollerate this “arrogant” behaviour from SA -got to discipline these lowly scum from down south, being their attitude. How do we dare to win these holy Lions and so on…
Fine us as much as you want. History will tell we “unfairly” beat the superiour unfortunate, bullied, unlucky and cheated Lions in the good year of 2009.
Fines can not rewrite history.
5 Jul 2009, 03:29 am
#158 SjamBok: ja muller is useless didnt see him do anything in the game, kanko avoided rucks though to and is always in the backline, …
we need to bring in Fondse & mostert (when hes fit)
deysel or vermulen for kanko
5 Jul 2009, 03:49 am
#154 Clyde Wombat: No, I think Lote should have reinvented himself as either Full back or outside Ctr. He’s too slow now for wing, especially when we have Digby, Hynes, Mitchell and Turner, What do you thnk?
5 Jul 2009, 03:58 am
Great series, great rugby. The Lions deserved the victory though that cheating c@nt of Dicko could have stopped a lot of niggle and bad sportmanship. **** jou ma se…
11-3 to Dicko…not a co-incidence anymore you cheating racist idiot…
5 Jul 2009, 04:02 am
I’m not looking forward to the Tri-Nations. I think it’s going to be ugly for us. I hope I’m wrong.
5 Jul 2009, 04:03 am
we won the series with the kakkest coach ever!!!!
5 Jul 2009, 04:05 am
#164 Ed_die_Leeu:
Geluk Ed, met jou Superbru double.
Bly jou ouers het lekker gekuier, en lekker om jou terug te sien!
#159 Senga:
Armbands?
What’s the story, what armbands, sorry I missed that?
5 Jul 2009, 04:12 am
#165 Pietman: #159 Senga:
Ok, I got it now, was about Bakkies, I see.
5 Jul 2009, 04:16 am
#163 sglazer: What worries me is that the senior players dont voice their support for the coach in public…as they used to in the old days…
John Smit having to bail him out during press conferences.
I miss the comradeship and unity between coach/capt/players.
Not good.
5 Jul 2009, 04:27 am
1 Ed_the_Lion 20.0 2.00 22.00
2 SodaJoe 20.0 1.25 21.25
3 Goue Bul 19.5 0.00 19.50
4 blhoo 19.0 0.00 19.00
5 Corndog 16.5 1.25 17.75
6 madasaScot 16.5 1.00 17.50
7 Veltie 17.0 0.00 17.00
8 grootblousmile 16.5 0.25 16.75
9 Boerboel 16.5 0.00 16.50
Hef 15.5 1.00 16.50
11 croc 16.0 0.00 16.00
EEE 16.0 0.00 16.00
kiwifish 15.5 0.50 16.00
Slak 16.0 0.00 16.00
15 iceman 15.5 0.00 15.50
superBul 15.5 0.00 15.50
ashley 15.5 0.00 15.50
trupisero 15.5 0.00 15.50
SA Barbarian 15.5 0.00 15.50
Sheriff 15.5 0.00 15.50
JimT 14.5 1.00 15.50
22 carol 15.0 0.25 15.25
23 Speenstamp 15.0 0.00 15.00
24 KingPaul 14.5 0.00 14.50
K9 14.5 0.00 14.50
26 wacky 14.0 0.00 14.00
grant 14.0 0.00 14.00
28 CheetahJ 13.5 0.00 13.50
Cereal_Killa 13.5 0.00 13.50
Koos 13.5 0.00 13.50
Turbo Shark 13.5 0.00 13.50
Pietman 13.5 0.00 13.50
33 Ruda 13.0 0.00 13.00
34 Snoek 11.5 0.00 11.50
monk 11.5 0.00 11.50
Clanerk 11.5 0.00 11.50
37 rugby_only 10.5 0.50 11.00
Storm Voort 11.0 0.00 11.00
39 Blouste 10.5 0.00 10.50
40 AB Bullsbok 9.0 0.00 9.00
Alfred E Neuman 9.0 0.00 9.00
42 LongDrop 8.5 0.00 8.50
43 Keenen 8.0 0.00 8.00
Andre_WP 8.0 0.00 8.00
45 Hunter 6.0 0.00 6.00
46 Lucky 5.5 0.00 5.50
47 Bluerugga 4.5 0.00 4.50
48 foow 0.0 0.00 0.00
5 Jul 2009, 04:28 am
#165 Pietman: Dankie my mater!!
5 Jul 2009, 04:37 am
#166 Pietman: Yes Piet – as you already know:
The IRB Council, consists of the eight foundations Unions each with two seats – Scotland, Ireland, Wales, England, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and France. Argentina, Canada, Italy and Japan each have one seat on the Council.
Bit lopsided towards the NH in my opinion. The IRB investigating the wearing of the armbands amuse me. F them.
5 Jul 2009, 04:43 am
#170 Senga:
Let them investigate, who cares?
Did Chilliboy get injured again yesterday?
Has this man ever finished a full match in his life?
He played ok, but he seems a bit injury prone (since his PBH days).
5 Jul 2009, 04:50 am
#171 Pietman: Dunno if he got injured yesterday…think he was just replaced by Bism in a desperate move by PdV to save the match. Chili had numerous probs with his knees in the past.
5 Jul 2009, 04:59 am
#172 Senga:
I listened to the Afr commentary yesterday, no mention of armbands.
But I have just watched the clip on rugbydumpdot com, have you seen it?
Go check Ndugane’s try, even the British commentators thought it was good.
And check Simon Shaw’s blog with Williams’ second try.
But all in all, the Poms deserved this one, though there were a few defining moments (the intercept, for instance, could have been an easy run in for Kirchner).
5 Jul 2009, 05:01 am
Stragglers?
Liebenberg
Wepener
Strauss
Kuun
All world class… not in the 22… but the slowest player ever to grace a test team is… only in Africa!
5 Jul 2009, 05:08 am
#173 Pietman: Niks fout met Ndugane’s try nie – about 1 duim speling tussen sy regter boot en die tryline. Bryce Lawrence het seker die 3N in gedagte gehad toe hy sy beslissing gegee het.
Ja, sou geen verskil aan uitslag maak nie, maar sou die statistiek verbeter.
5 Jul 2009, 05:11 am
#175 Senga: tryline = kantlyn
5 Jul 2009, 05:17 am
#175 Senga:
Ja, sy voet was in die lug toe hy uitgaan, en daai lyn is moerse breed ook.
5 Jul 2009, 05:30 am
#177 Pietman: Thanks for introducing me to rugbydump.com. Lotsa stuff there to investigate.
Been awake now for almost 25 hrs. Got to hit the couch.
good night
5 Jul 2009, 05:36 am
#178 Senga:
Yes, good site that, for a quick round-up of the games.
G’nite, check you later.
5 Jul 2009, 05:50 am
#167 Senga: Too much just doesn’t make sense. Success usually comes by chance in these circumstances, not through conscious design. Not looking good, i.e. not looking expansive, positive.
5 Jul 2009, 08:49 am
You guys might be just a tad too harsh on PdV. With the luxury of a dead rubber, he did show us today that there are several players in the Boks side that are not worthy of playing in the 3N. He will surely have noticed the ill discipline of Brussouw and will chew him out for being overamped and giving away 3 points under the poles at a crucial moment.
Seems like Spies has taken on Bakkies role and within minutes of coming he was in there with Brussouw doing wedgies on Martyn Williams and then retaliating on Phillips ON OUR TRYLINE. Dumb from a player at this level – not sure of that world’s greatest #8 he gives himself. If he is so good, why was playing on the wing anyway?
No, all in all a good reality check for the Boks. We are not as good as we make out to be and in the humility ranks we really suck – the Lions actually outscored us 74-63 and by 7-5 tries in the tests series and deserve some respect even if we did manage a 2-1 series win at home.
5 Jul 2009, 08:54 am
It is silly to take the Bok team apart.The coaching staff
made a fundamental error in exposing the world’s finest
scrum half again to unnecessary thuggery.
everybody with half a brain knows that FDP is worth his weight
in gold.
With the series won he should have given a well earned rest.
This man is the master,does not suffer from brain farts
like Burger,Brussow and Bismarck.
I see the day coming that somebody is going to lose his
cool and put Bismark down and out.He can thank his lucky star
he is not playing in the days of Geldenhuys (both of them)
or Kevin de Klerk and some others whose names I forget.
He and others would have needed expansive dental surgery by now.
The fact is without Du Preez the team is unable to adapt
and rather dies then to put a specialized scrum half on the
field.
Pienaar looked rusted and out of touch behind a struggling
pack.You cannot call them stragglers,they were going
backwards at the rate of knots.They simply looked lost
without a plan and with slow ball,there was no Habana on the
field with a couple of miracle rescue tries.
5 Jul 2009, 08:55 am
#181 out wide:
The Lions series is not about tries, its about winning and attritional rugby.
The Boks scored far more points and tries in 97 than the Lions did, with the Lions squeezing the first two tests, no-one remembers that. The only thing remembered is who won the series.
Well done Coach Peter. Now go win a 3N.
5 Jul 2009, 09:00 am
Sodajoe,
Going to disagree on Smit.
I also thought maybe John Smit was getting a bit long in the tooth and off the pace, but he was ouststanding in this series. His scrumming, tightloose play, ball carrying and captaincy were all excellent and probably was the difference between the two sides ultimately.
Reckon its the most committed i’ve seen John Smit play and get the feeling he wanted to win this very dearly. Well done.
5 Jul 2009, 09:04 am
#183 cab: Unless I am suffering from Alzheimers by then, I will remember it as a close run series.
5 Jul 2009, 09:12 am
Yep we know who the real stragler is!! That lion gouging mechanic needs to take a step back off a cliff.
Kiwibok
5 Jul 2009, 09:33 am
#92 skopskiet: Ha ha ha…Skopskiet, you’re clearly showing your wrong side of the tracks pedigree again, as you have been for quite a while now when someone disagrees with you. Sorry I didn’t stay up last night to await that little piece of vitriolic wisdom, but I have a life beyond accounting, late night chat rooms and posting misguided rugby “advice” about team selections.
Responding like you did removes any last semblance of credibility you ever might have had. Either stop drinking so late at night or grow up, you are not the only person entitled to an opinion on this site.
5 Jul 2009, 09:44 am
#7 mbaxman93:
Did you not notice how hard Jaque Fourie was working on defense? He also won 2 turnovers that a player like Brussouw would’ve beeen proud of. Watch the match again and you’ll see every single time Olivier received the ball from Steyn he either ran straight into contact without passing or he skipped pass Fourie to Kirschner or Nokwe. The only time Jaque Fourie did get passed the ball was when Olivier passed to Fourie running on the angle and then he was high tackled by Philips and that run looked pretty threatening. So i don’t think you should be saying that Fourie didn’t show why he should be selected for the starting 15…he did more in yesterdays game than Jacobs did the whole series…and thats true!
5 Jul 2009, 09:47 am
#187 thefeather:
You actually take this ‘coloured’ oke that makes his living out of paying Africans slave wages (bread/water) seriously?
The man is a parasite!
5 Jul 2009, 09:49 am
#189 money_man: Nah, I don’t take him seriously at all, I actually laugh at his self-proclaimed wisdom. It’s the personal insults I take offence to. But I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, I’ve seen him here for a long time doing the same thing to others.
5 Jul 2009, 09:58 am
Gentlemen,
Skop’s #82 was a very accurate assessment of the player pool and I can find no fault with it. Names we can discuss.
I would only add that you can have the best players on tap, but without a coach we are going nowhere. This team isn’t growing on-field, it’s going backwards.
Now I know he won’t agree to me adding this to his post and thats fine, but we need to bring JW in as DOR. He must work with PdV and new assistants. The self-belief of the team being destroyed in the media needs to be worked on and we will be a far way to turning this around. (It was clear to everyone and from his facial expressions that FdP didn’t feel like playing yesterday and so there must have been many others).
5 Jul 2009, 09:58 am
#87 WakaNathan:
100% correct whacko.
us thieving, conniving saffas should take a leaf out of the nz/ab book.
wouldn’t it be wonderful to be so pure, pious and morally untarnished.
how do you guys do it? please, give us a hint.
5 Jul 2009, 10:07 am
#167 Senga: Thats true- worrying.
At the top levels of the sport, there is nowhere to hide. If Snor cannot cut it this Trinatins, then he must go. Before its too late for the next RWC. Get Jake back to prove what he can do…. let him shut up all his detractors on this site hey Skop?
5 Jul 2009, 10:07 am
#191 Bul-a-Bhloo:
i know
it won’t
happen
but snorre
must eff-off
the guy
is as
thick as
pig ****
he is
a political
appointment
a dumbo
of the
first degree
5 Jul 2009, 10:09 am
#191 Bul-a-Bhloo: We have the same type of play as under Jake white, but worse defence and less organisation at ruck time. We dont have the organisation in the first three phases.
5 Jul 2009, 10:59 am
#183 cab:
Actually as I recall it was – ‘we lost the Lions series through poor kicking…….that was the only reason……we scored more tries, we were the better team……if only our kicking was better’.
Well this time you were outscored on tries and the Lions also scored more points. This despite the Boks having better kicking.
What it proves then as it does now is that you just dont know how to acknowledge the opposition were, simply, better. In ’97 the Boks lost but, we were told, they were still better. Well I reckon the same logic can be applied here and that the Lions had the better team. They had longer periods of domination throughout the 3 Tests.
#192 charo:
So says the team who uses the word ‘Justice’ not for a major catastrophe or a historical grievance or the death of an activist……no, no, no……..it was for a fellow player and his long-overdue banning (and not his 1st for this offence) for a flying-headbutt. So what were the Boks telling us with this message ? Oh, theyre not saving Bakkies, theyre saving RUGBY !!!
Tell me Charo, what is more pious and righteous than that ?!
This after a solid week of labelling the Lions as ‘whingers’. Oh, is this NOT whinging ? In the same week the Boks had a player for eye-gouging.
I hope the Boks have the book chucked at them. If the ABs did that to the jersey, I would want them publicly lynched.
5 Jul 2009, 11:03 am
It will go down in History that the Boks biggest loss to the lions was at Ellis Park 2009. It will not say that the Lions played a 2nd Bok side. History will just say Lions thrashed the Boks at Ellis Park 2009.
A stadium that we have been so proud of where we have gotten more wins than any other. Think that is all gone now. We can thank PdV for that.
How PdV can select a 2nd team to play in a Test at Ellis Park and against a Lions side was actually sad really. We should always pride ourselves and play the best in a series like this. It cheapens the Bok Jersey and it shows he probably does not have as much respect for the jersey as the players or supporters do.
Fringe players should have got a chance off the bench and NEVER to start.
Zane I thought was superb in the S14 but in the E. Boks and yesterday proved he has a long way to go yet to play for the Boks. Odwa, Nokwe too. Probably WO as well. Chilli was okay but we struggled in the scrums without Bissie.
Once Frans Steyn came on at FB it showed he is world class. Just hope PdV still selects him now that he is going to play overseas. Think he is going to be our very best FB ever.
We let a great, great opportunity slip us by yesterday by just giving anyone a game and not the best. Missed seeing two of my favourite Boks playing. Habs and JPP has to start always. Probably the two best wings in the world and just left out. Crazy.
A real waste of time going to the game too. Will never ever go again if the BEST is not selected. NEVER.
5 Jul 2009, 11:08 am
Skops and Soda – most sense for some time but to pick Liebenberg and drop Smit (for the untested Kruger – as a reserve, sure); feeling OK? Liebs was OK in a hopeless WP but rather take Kuun or even the Lions hooker surely.
My old rant. Generally the players have the talent. We are short of a reliable kicker (Percy style) and a stand out flyhalf (although Penaar Steyn is OK). Lock is a problem. We seem to have a love affair with big loose forwards who cannot match beasts like Thorne and that filthy Pom (except for Bakkies).
Then the coaching. Fine to criticise Bekker, Matfield, Muller for floating around on the wing but they need to be given a plan. Secure ball on the ground. The backs – don’t kick the ball away unless you want to spend time under the goalposts.
I felt analysis of the Lions was poor. 1st test the SA scrum caught them out. Their backline skill and rush defence caught SA. 2nd test we should have known they would beef up their set scrum and we should have had a tactic for their rush defence, chip, lie deeper if Adi is going to run or only F Steyn and J Fourie run (big boys). 3rd test we must of known they would come out firing so don’t kick the ball to them. Surely, work the phases and ensure support for the ball carrier. Attack from deep. Don’t kick the effing ball to them!
Muliaina, Smith, Giteau, Barnes et al will punish the Boks if they persist.
5 Jul 2009, 11:23 am
#196 WakaNathan: if you take the first two tests where our first team played we actually out scored the lions on tries 5-4, in addition we won the series. So in the end of the day we were the better team. One can’t take into account the total try tally when our coach decides to field a second team in the final test.
5 Jul 2009, 11:25 am
#198 husky: I’d say that Morne is a very reliable kicker
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