Boks need a coach
5 Jul 2009
Gavin Rich, writing in the Weekend Argus, wonders how much longer John Smit will be able to keep his team together.
So a British & Irish Lions tour has come and gone and at least this time there won’t be any British journalists butting me on the head while muttering over and over again ‘We did you, we did you’, as happened on this night 12 years ago.
Instead I had to listen to former Lions scrumhalf Matt Dawson, who was on a BBC radio programme I took part in, telling the people of the United Kingdom that the Springbok coach was ‘absolutely bonkers’, ‘unbelievable’ and a ‘discredit to the game’.
And then afterwards, in the final Test, the Lions scored the most emphatic victory of the series.
So yep, you have probably figured it out – I am not sure how I feel.
It was ‘us’ who did them this time, but pretty much the same way as they did us 12 years ago – by exploiting some quite weak selection and strategy decisions from the opposing coach.
Had Ian McGeechan got his selections right for Durban, the Lions would probably have won this series 3-0, and the Boks would have been made to pay a much bigger price than just embarrassment for the fault-lines that are appearing under Peter De Villiers.
The Bok coach has been a severe embarrassment to the country, and those who argue in his favour on the basis of his results are either just not close enough to the team to know what is really going on, or they are wilfully ignoring the facts.
The fact is that De Villiers inherited a World Cup winning team held together by a core of individuals who rank among the most experienced rugby players in the world.
They played against a Lions team that, apart from being poorly selected first up, struggled to come to terms with the challenges posed to the Lions concept in the professional era, when provincial games are no longer proper examinations and there are not really enough of them to get the combinations to groove.
The Lions were hammered 3-0 in New Zealand in 2005, with not one of those games being close, and considering the scarcity of world-class players in the Lions unit, the Boks should have expected something similar.
There are probably a few reasons why this was not the case, and credit must be given to the Lions for the way they fought, but I am inclined to agree with Eddie Jones, who in a London newspaper column described the Boks as a team that looks under-coached.
Yes, the Boks were winning until yesterday, but how much has De Villiers had to do with those victories?
For those who know what is going on within the camp, it will not be news that the players are running the team. It is one of the reasons why they seem on their way to regaining their reputation for indiscipline.
You really can’t allow the inmates to run the prison indefinitely without there being some kind of drawback.
John Smit is taking a great deal on his plate at the moment, and his captaincy last week, the way he kept his players calm when the mortars were falling all around them in that first hour, played a big part in the way the Boks were able to win it in the final minutes.
But how much longer can Smit and his lieutenants Victor Matfield and Fourie du Preez keep the Boks together?
Yesterday the cracks were clearly becoming evident, and the Boks have got progressively worse during the series.
It is when the experienced players go that the Boks are going to need a coach. Is De Villiers the right man to take the Boks to 2011?
I don’t believe he is. His record might look impressive, but there is a big difference between a successful coach and a good coach.
Former Australian cricket coach John Buchanan was an example of a successful coach. The Australian team he was in charge of for several years was brimful of experienced, talented players – all of them world class.
Buchanan’s team picked up trophies and dominated the Test game. But Shane Warne had doubts over Buchanan’s credentials as a coach, and he was vindicated once Buchanan was no longer coaching a team of super-stars. His performance in the recent IPL was so poor that he has now been sacked.
They used to say about Kitch Christie – ‘the right man at the right time’.
It may be that De Villiers will be remembered as ‘the wrong coach at the right time’, meaning that if ever there was a time when a flaky coach could be carried, it is now, when the team has been playing together for so long and has such a long established winning habit.
Unfortunately that means they probably won’t kick onto the level where they should kick onto, and while the coach may, at the moment, be able to get away with having minor input to strategy, that won’t be the case forever.
When the experienced players move on or retire, and inexperienced players become more prevalent in the team, the Boks are going to need a coach.
In fact, they need one now.
By Gavin Rich, Weekend Argus
456 Comments
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6 Jul 2009, 09:47 am
As usual in SA it is going to have to be broken beyond repair before anybody thinks to repair it. In terms of his starting point JW did a magnificent job but due to the fact that his skin colour did not fit the profile he was dumped. In fact the ANC and SARU and some idiots on this site used to criticise JW constantly and then when he brought the RWC home we were told that it was a poor tournament and we got lucky.
If JW was black we would have whitewashed the LIONS and would be launching a successful defence on our trinations title this year.
6 Jul 2009, 09:51 am
#399 Optimus Prime: …there is no lessons to be learned behind a winning pack, since we will not always be the most dominant pack, so if you can behind a losing pack then you have my respect.
The other thing…if JdV was there the grubber/chip kick would have been used and subsequint exposure of the rush defence.
If the game plan that the “players”
aggreed on did not work, why did they persist with it?
6 Jul 2009, 09:55 am
#401 DEE DAH: Quote from JW:
“All players are fetchers”
So no Brussouw…not sure if we would have been any further…
But saying that, I was dissapointed at the lack of support at the rucks and non commital of support for the guyt with the ball.
6 Jul 2009, 10:01 am
#403 Redrover:
JW won the trinations and the RWC with the BOKS and he built the most experienced side in world rugby, I like to think he knew something about the game.
6 Jul 2009, 10:07 am
#402 Redrover: Like I said. Someone call Victor, John and Fourie in and give them the tongue lashing.
6 Jul 2009, 10:09 am
#404 DEE DAH: Jake did not win the trinations in 2007.
Please do not make it sound as if this guy was some unbeatable force. He got his *** whipped regularily and badly. 49 – 0! And that’s just to mention one score line.
6 Jul 2009, 10:10 am
#383 superBul: Superbul is jy die man wat in die 80′s in Huis Marais was?? Ek wil nou nie my identiteit weggee nie, maar ek was langsaan in die ander koshuis ( die een met die Eiffel ). Was goeie pelle met Merwie en het haker gespeel. Miskien weet jy wie “praat”. Ek stem saam met wat jy sê!
6 Jul 2009, 10:11 am
…I am not disputing the achievement of JW, but he wasn’t perfect and made some bloopers in his time of which 49-0 would shout the loudest. For me, the jury is still out on PdV and so far he has made some mistakes, but to just fire someone for that would be premature.
6 Jul 2009, 10:11 am
#401 DEE DAH: Jake is an ***. And if he was soooo great. Why, when England, NZ and Aus, were looking for a coach at the end of 2007, did they not even consider your dream coach for the job? He had just won a WC didn’t he?
6 Jul 2009, 10:17 am
#405 Optimus Prime: What bugs me is the discipline of the team…we are allowing ourselves to be lured into nonsense and for this I blame this very sam “senior” players. The “younger” players should be able to take there lead from these guys, but even JS got frustrated with the ref….
6 Jul 2009, 10:26 am
#407 CharlesM:
Ek twyfel of dit my ou goeie vriend Superbul was.
hy was in Februarie vanjaar vir die eerste keer in die Kaap toe hy by my kom vakansie hou het.
Hy woon in die laeveld, Bosvelder van geboorte.
6 Jul 2009, 10:27 am
#410 Redrover: Go ahead dude. Gavin Rich says its the senior players. If they get the glory, they must get the bile too.
6 Jul 2009, 10:33 am
#380 Inevitable:
please tackler is as transparent as they come.
you on the other hand are more difficult to pick, a pompom?
6 Jul 2009, 10:33 am
Jake White – eventhough Boks lost crucial games under him, we all still had hope for the future of Bok rugby (proven right when we won the World Cup)
P Div – eventhough we won the Lions series (with a bit of luck), hope is fading fast.
The one thing I’m really looking forward to is the autobiographies of some current Boks in a few years time when they can give us the truth about P Div….
6 Jul 2009, 10:36 am
#414 panniepeet: No. I’m looking forward to Pdv’s tell all, expose book.
6 Jul 2009, 10:40 am
SUGGESTION:
Give this discussion a formal and international perspective by getting quotes from a broad selection of international commentators – journos and ex-players, which will hopefully take the racism and other petty issues out of it.
Even better and in addition to the series of quotes, get a poll done by an Aus, Kiwi, SH site similar to to Keo.co.za.
I am hoping the powers-that-be and including PdV, will wake up and notice that there are some urgent measures required. PdV seems either to be too arrogant or in too deep denial to understand or acknowledge this at the moment – given his comments on SABC TV this morning, even after the Hoskins session and Saturdays annihilation.
6 Jul 2009, 10:40 am
#409- and he openly approached the lions coaching staff for a job
6 Jul 2009, 10:41 am
#416 RugbyRIP: Sorry, meant NH not SH…
6 Jul 2009, 10:43 am
OK, me again – if Keo won’t do it, how about someone sticking something on Youtube and/or Facebook.
‘Might/should be there already, let me check
Maybe Jan23 put something up? Or could it be Elton?
6 Jul 2009, 11:13 am
#406 Optimus Prime:
Never said he won it in 2007 he won it in 2004 I should know I watched all 3 home games that year.
6 Jul 2009, 11:16 am
#415 Optimus Prime:
I am looking forward to PDV’s tell all book too. This way he can jabber on ad infinitum and the ghost writer can try and make sense of it all. With the clever editing you could turn Strauli into the BOKS best ever coach.
6 Jul 2009, 11:18 am
i wonder what happened to selection on merit, that the boks were beaten by the Lions, after having been turned into a second string outfit in the third test and stuffing around with the bench in the first? I thought you select your best representative team at ALL times
6 Jul 2009, 11:20 am
#420 DEE DAH: You are part of the “fire the coach campaign” right? You probably cannot stand that history will show that Pdv won the lions test series. Put’s that little spanner in your works hey? Hahahahahaha
6 Jul 2009, 11:28 am
Hellooooooooooo
I tend to disagree with Simon on this Article of his… we don’t need A NEW COACH…….. we need 3 NEW COACES…
Muir and Gary Glitter, the assistants who actually is supposed to do most of the actual coaching (with Snorrie more the Man-Manager), are abysmal, specially Muir.
Oh for the day we get the best specialists in their positions as coaches (and players)… Forwards coach – Heyneke Meyer definately…. and the jury is still out about backline coach and defensive coach, but it is’nt Muir and whomever is there now !!
Anyway, now we look forward to the Tri Nations and hope to hell all the prophets of doom who says that Snorrie’s being carried by the Senior Players is way off the mark…. I share their fear in this regard though.
6 Jul 2009, 11:29 am
No idiot – I am talking about the players and the way the selectors pick a team – merit or experiment?
6 Jul 2009, 11:32 am
#409 Optimus Prime:
Simple reason was that JW wrote a book about his issues with SARU. That was a mistake, only write expose’s when you have decided to end your career.
If that book had not come out JW would have got the England job. Nobody was willing to touch JW in fear that he would spill the beans on the incompetencies of the administrators in the RFU as he had with SARU. After Woodward the RFU have gone for yes men and that has been reflected in their results.
Australia wanted to stick it to their NZ counterparts so grabbed Robbie Deans without seriously considering anybody else. NZ have the same coach from the last world cup, no change so why bring a Saffa in?
PDivvie has inherited a RWC winning side and is not getting one iota of **** from SARU administrators or the ANC sports minister and the side has regressed. Explain that.
6 Jul 2009, 11:34 am
u there dee dah?
6 Jul 2009, 11:39 am
yip
6 Jul 2009, 11:43 am
#426 DEE DAH: All these countries according to you were desperate for the brilliance of Jake White.
Right…….And the toothfairy really does exist.
6 Jul 2009, 11:45 am
From following this, I reckon one has to wonder what the connection is between public parking areas, PdV and Optimus Prime?
6 Jul 2009, 11:50 am
#423 Optimus Prime</a
I will make no bones about it, I think PDivvie should go if he doesn’t improve his selection policy and his public relations. Actually I think he should just go.
When we won the Lions series I was spunking all over the settee. Absolutely overjoyed. I was however concerned at his tactical naivete with his substitution blunder in the first test. I slagged off JW when he made the same mistake against Wales in 2006. I am consistent.
PDivvie said he was picking form players and not on reputation Brussouw got a call up only after an injury to Schalk and then was promptly dropped for the second test when the coaching staff admitted Schalk was only 80% fit. Then Pienaar who had not played in over 3 months was picked ahead of Steyn. Brossouw and Steyn won the second test for us and had they been there from the start we would have won it by 20 points. This was a narrow series win a 19 point lead squandered and poor selections almost leading to a second test defeat. The less said about the 3rd test the better.
I would never hope for a BOK defeat in order to get the coach sacked that is pathetic, but this coach causes too much concern in my mind.
He was promoted early and he is being exposed. Don’t even begin to compare the experience that JW had with the lack of experience PDivvie has.
6 Jul 2009, 11:53 am
#429 Optimus Prime:
Try reading what has been said and stop putting words in my mouth. Aus wanted Deans and NZ retained there coach and England wanted a yes man. Where did I say they were desperate for JW’s services. ***** off you imbecile!!!
You are one of these idiots who will support somebody for the sake of supporting them. Tell me one innovative thing or selection that PDivvie has made whilst being in charge.
6 Jul 2009, 11:53 am
#411 Pietman: Daar is vandag 2 berigte in Die Burger wat feitlik woordeliks ooreenstem met Superbul se kommentaar – dog toe hy is ‘n joernalis. Hy het dit seker maar ge-”copy” en ge-”paste”.
6 Jul 2009, 11:54 am
#430 RugbyRIP:
Optimus is probably PDivvie why on earth would he be planning for the 3nations thats still a few weeks away.
6 Jul 2009, 11:56 am
#431 DEE DAH:
div
was promoted
for
political
reasons
nothing more
nothing
less
6 Jul 2009, 12:02 pm
#435 Porra the Fat Speedster:
Exactly right!
ANC and SARU would rather fail with a coloured coach than win with a white one. The Lions tickets were so highly priced because SARU realised results are about to start sliding so make hay whilst the sun shines.
With the money this tour has brought in they can afford a couple of years of poor gates and then get another coach into fix the situation.
6 Jul 2009, 12:07 pm
The man is not able to do the job.
Full stop.
He is incompetent.
It is as simple as that.
All the debate about results, politics, nice guys etc will not change the above.
So, where to from here?
SARU have created him, what will they do with him?
6 Jul 2009, 12:16 pm
#437 tight head:
nothing
it’s all part
of the
greater
agenda
6 Jul 2009, 12:53 pm
#432 DEE DAH: Adi Jacobs in 2008. You asked for one.
6 Jul 2009, 12:56 pm
#439 Optimus Prime:
Adi Jacobs was first capped by Jake White, now try again.
6 Jul 2009, 12:57 pm
#430 RugbyRIP: All I’m pointing out is that Pdv is being hated and ganged up on based on the fact that:
1. He does not speak like Prince William;
2. He does not look like Brad Pitt.
3. He is winning test series, when some people like the press, and Tight Head and Dee Dah are praying to God that he just gets fired.
It’s all there. I’m saying they should stop beating around the bush and tell us what their real reason is for hating Pdv.
I have a list of three points above, which I think is what is bothering them, if they want to expand. Please feel free.
6 Jul 2009, 12:58 pm
#430 RugbyRIP:
Same area, Primus is not far from kingwilliamstown (she lives in PE!).
6 Jul 2009, 12:58 pm
#440 DEE DAH: Adi was left to rot on benches by Jake the Snake and **** Muir. You try again.
6 Jul 2009, 13:00 pm
#436 DEE DAH: How has Pdv failed. Last time I checked, he won the series, something a whitye coach has not managhed in 29 years. I saw him beat Nz in Nz, something a white coach could not do in 10 years. Maybe government is tired of white boys that can’t deliver.
6 Jul 2009, 13:02 pm
#440 DEE DAH: Old Strooilie selected Adi way back in 2002 already.
6 Jul 2009, 13:04 pm
#434 DEE DAH: Okay. So by your thinking. Robbie Deans and Graham Henry are not thinking ahead of the trinations. That’s why GH rested Rodders. They are soooooo NOT preparing, that they even arranged to stop playing tests three weeks before hand.
Dee Dah. You are clearly a Jake White fan and lover. You have his poster on your wall I get it. You have 100000 copies of his book. You think his *** is cute. Whatever. Just do not think that the rest of the world agrees with you.
6 Jul 2009, 13:04 pm
#445 Beertjie: Why was he not part of the WC 2007 squad?
6 Jul 2009, 13:14 pm
#447 Optimus Prime: I like Adi. Strauli did him no favours by selecting him when he was not ready yet. If i remember correctly he was part of the infamous 53-3. That left him in the desert for a while and JW obviously did not rate him above Jaque Fourie, Francois Steyn and Olivier. Jake had an obsession with size.
6 Jul 2009, 13:23 pm
Well, what can I say… He’s a good old laugh also. Especially those media sessions. But, I don’t like him or his style…is Ignorant and Arrogant and choose to see only what he wants, he’s dishonest in other words.
6 Jul 2009, 13:30 pm
Recon the coach is the symptom, the real cause of the problem is further up in the hierachy. Maybe even right at the top.
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