Indiscipline endemic to anarchy
The Springbok discipline has been shocking throughout the three-Test series, a fact that confirms all is not well in the South African camp.
‘That was just two minutes of the game, and we play for 80 minutes,’ head coach Peter de Villiers replied when asked about the senseless scuffle that afforded the Lions a late penalty in Saturday’s defeat.
The Lions won by more than three points, but that wasn’t the issue. De Villiers dodged the question pertaining to brain explosions that are becoming the norm rather than the exception.
Why is he dodging the question? Because the answer is a poor reflection on himself. The Boks are an aggravated lot, just as they were under Rudolf Straeuli. Does that suggest they don’t back their own coach or are unhappy under his rule?
You look at the evidence and you decide.
The senior players have had to take on greater responsibility since De Villiers came to power. A tumultuous 2008 Tri-Nations was characterised by what De Villiers called total rugby, a brand that was devoid of sense or structure, and most importantly a brand that led to a last-place finish. On the end-of-the-year tour, the game against England witnessed the reversion to a more structured approach as the senior players put their collective foot down to force De Villiers into submission.
De Villiers was hailed in the aftermath, but insiders confirmed the senior players were determined to play to a pattern akin to the one that won the World Cup.
In 2008, De Villiers’s advisors peddled the line, ‘Give us time to work with him’, implying that given a chance, he could become a half decent coach.
Together with his consistently ridiculous press conference offerings, his rugby contribution has failed to improve. That first Test in Durban was so nearly lost thanks to some mindless substitutions in the final quarter, and in the second and third Tests, the patent lack of player discipline served to highlight his lack of control.
The Boks are getting worse, not better. Maybe it’s taken Saturday’s defeat for more people to realise that.
Most of these Bok players have been together for five years and a number boast over 50 caps. When you see a player like Victor Matfield, a veteran and vice-captain of the Boks, involved in off-the-ball fighting, you have to wonder. There’s aggression and then there’s senseless pushing and shoving that ultimately ends in a penalty against your own team. The experienced players just don’t do that.
Indiscipline is not limited to foul play. It was written off as rust in the first Test, but the Bok decision-making has been shocking across all three games. The Boks were robbed of a kickable penalty in the final stages of the second Test because Bismarck du Plessis took a quick tap. Where was the common sense?
Sure, players need to be held accountable for their own poor decisions, but when they occur so frequently you have to question the coaching philosophy that continues to tolerate perpetual failure in this regard.
Some would say John Smit should shoulder some of the blame for not taking more control on the park. Smit is already under enough pressure trying to play a position that’s not his best, and play it for 80 minutes since the Bok management haven’t bothered to include another specialist tighthead on the bench. No, Smit’s done an admirable job in this series despite the coaching staff, not because of them.
The balance of the 22 has been suspect across the series, the substitutions in the first Test highlighting the point. The decision to field a team boasting 10 changes in the third Test was also flawed given the Boks were so shaky in the first two games. The results failed to hide the fact that they were off the pace.
De Villiers is now talking about building for the Tri-Nations, as if defeat to the Lions’ second-stringers in Johannesburg has afforded him some great insight. Another win for the Bok first side would not have served as a precursor to Tri-Nations glory, but it would have afforded the Boks a further opportunity to attain the synergy that was so obviously lacking in Durban and Pretoria.
The Boks head into the Tri-Nations a group of individuals when they should head into this tournament a hardened and well-drilled team. They have the Lions series win to show for their efforts, but their sub-standard performances in all three games tell a truer story.
This side is stacked with individual talent, but without the necessary management, the team is on a downward spiral. Ian McGeechan came to South Africa with a limited team and managed to record a relatively commendable 2-1 result. De Villiers went into a home series with a world champion team, scraped two wins and then proceeded to field an unbalanced group of youngsters to lose at the fortress Ellis Park. Who should be celebrated and who should be condemned?
The Boks have beaten the Lions and South Africa should celebrate the result, and after that, South Africa should move on. In moving on, South Africa should acknowledge why their world champion team is not performing to world champion standards.
The bottom line is that as a top rugby nation, we deserve more than a second-rate coach.
By Jon Cardinelli, in Johannesburg
July 5th, 2009 at 6:14 am
gouging dragons!..schalkie I hope you are reading this
July 5th, 2009 at 6:28 am
how can we get rid of snor without sounding rascist
cause if we want him fired the anc will play the old race
card the ace of spades
its sad to know that the anc will keep pushing black
coaches untilk they get it right sa will never have another
white coach and iam not saying white is right
but this is how it will go and its not
fair on us the supporters or the players
the players need to protest or bok rugby is over as we know it
we all know meyer should have got the job
July 5th, 2009 at 6:30 am
maube we jsut stop going to rugby games that the boks are playing and stop watching a total black out
as we know pdv said talk is cheap and money buys the whiskey
July 5th, 2009 at 6:40 am
SARFU must refund the Bok supporters for fielding a B team.
When we bought the tickets we thought it was the Bok team.
Its a bloody disgrace
July 5th, 2009 at 6:52 am
Nice article jc, much better than the recent rubbish spurted out.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:54 am
Just imagine we had a worldclass foreign coach who wouldn’t care about quotas and race wouldn’t matter
July 5th, 2009 at 7:30 am
Jaque Fourie said it all… they changed the game-plan for this test… away from Bok strengths to the bumbling fool’s…
July 5th, 2009 at 7:34 am
#2 klippies101:
It’s only sport… the problem lies in the same principle being applied in ‘more serious’ sectors…
Any wonder the once world dominating South African gold and mining sector is the current laughing stock of the world and beyond the point of no return?
A N C!
July 5th, 2009 at 7:41 am
ja well said money man man i hear sa mining is in real kak
July 5th, 2009 at 8:04 am
#8 money_man: #9 klippies101:
Platinum mines are battling because of the global motor trade taking a knock.
July 5th, 2009 at 8:08 am
Ag JC give it a rest. The scuffle yesterday was handbags and it came about because 1) Phillips was provoking it and 2) the Boks were frustrated at losing. It happens, move on!
July 5th, 2009 at 8:11 am
#6 Oxy moron: Who would like to coach SA with all the restrictions on the teams representative regulations.
And witch SA coach would we pick, hard times ahead.
July 5th, 2009 at 8:17 am
You know, I happen to agree with a lot of what you have said JC but is now the time to be asking these questions? The Boks have just completed a series win against the Lions, it’s time to celebrate and be happy isn’t it? Where are the positives?
Just for a bit of fun, here’s my combined team of the series:
1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. Adam Jones
4. Bakkies
5. Matfield
6. Brussouw
7. Juan Smith
8. Heaslip (it was close but his performance yesterday was above anything Spies did over the 3 tests)
9. FdP
10. Stephen Jones
11. Habana
12. Roberts
13. BOD
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Kearney (best Lions player by a mile)
July 5th, 2009 at 8:22 am
Bench: Jenkins, Rees, Shaw, Croft, Phillips, Frans Steyn, Shane Williams
July 5th, 2009 at 8:27 am
Only in South Africa do we want fire a coach that has won in New Zealand, a cleansweep in Europe and has won a LIONS series.
July 5th, 2009 at 8:30 am
#13 jonnymain: Nice team.
Let’s make them play together under Snor and see how long it takes him to mess it up
July 5th, 2009 at 8:31 am
#15 RugbyStudent: He won ONE game in NZ. He hasn’t done much since and when he does take ‘control’ we end up with the trainwrecks like yesterday.
He isn’t a coaches backside.
July 5th, 2009 at 8:33 am
#15 RugbyStudent: Be fair, only in South Africa do we fire a World Cup winning coach…
July 5th, 2009 at 8:34 am
#18 goyougoodthing2: Only in SA do they advertise the head coaches job during the RWC!
July 5th, 2009 at 8:35 am
Pieter Div beteken niks vir SA rugby.Van wanneer af bou jy i span waarvan die meerderheid al meer as 5 jaar saam as.i Reeks wen teenoor die leeus is al wt hy kon bereik en dit is ng steeds toe die wêreld kampioene as individuals gespeel.Die SA span is nr.1 werd nix minder nie…
July 5th, 2009 at 8:36 am
#13 jonnymain: Who is the coach of that team?
July 5th, 2009 at 8:36 am
Jeez some of you guys are a bunch of idiots. The mining industry is suffering because of the global recession!! Fools! Why does everything need to be blamed on government? Maybe if the past administation that kept this country in a viscious racist chokehold didn’t import foreign goods, we’d be at a point where we make our own cars and process our own metal.
Jon, to me you’re not a rugby writer. You like one of those American commentators..Couch coaches!
July 5th, 2009 at 8:37 am
#21 JL1: Warren Gatland
July 5th, 2009 at 8:38 am
#19 jonnymain: We are a joke aren’t we down here? Bit sad really.
The arm bands? Children trying to be men, all respect and honour is gone. Rugby in the provinces and S14 may be all worth watching.
I will NEVER pay another cent to watch the Boks.
July 5th, 2009 at 8:41 am
#23 jonnymain: He is a bit of a whinger of late but should be OK.
Time to get a foreign coach, but none of them will take SA on because of the selection criteria and politics
July 5th, 2009 at 8:42 am
#24 goyougoodthing2: A bit harsh mate. I happen to think “good on them” for taking a stand instead of just meekly accepting it like usual. It was never worth a citing or a ban, as yesterday I saw at least 2 clean-outs that were equally as “bad” as the one Bakkies was banned for. Bakkies was banned on his reputation not for what he did on the rugby field and that is wrong and unfair.
July 5th, 2009 at 8:44 am
Exactly, we are so quick to fire coaches. It took Heyneke Meyer 7 years to build a winning Bulls team. Last year Pote Human took over a winning Bulls team and they looked like laughing stocks.
I didn’t see Jon-never-played-the-game-Cardenelli write in protest that hiring a second rate coach for the Bulls smacks of buddy buddy mentorship. What’s the Div?
July 5th, 2009 at 8:44 am
#22 RugbyStudent: ? Doubt it mate. Stop blaming the past and analyse the very sad present.
Broadcasters going down the tube, with government funding, national airline carrier the same. One of the winners of best run city in the world 10 years ago (durban) a stinking mess that lost it’s Blue Flag Status. Hospitals with no doctors and the doctors they do have they fire. No police. No Metro Police. No bus service in Durban. A Gautrain no one wants.
9 new stadia no one wants or can afford. Mining, once the back bone of SA on it’s bum.
Get real. Oh of course, Springboks now the Proteas Girls U12 Touch Rugby Academy
July 5th, 2009 at 8:46 am
#26 jonnymain: Yes it’s unfair and so is life.
Whining is not the way to get things done. Take it like a man. It’s just not the way we used to do things in SA.
July 5th, 2009 at 8:48 am
#25 JL1: You are right there. I hate to say it but PDV wouldn’t get to coach any other tier 1 rugby nation in the world – he’s just not good enough and nobody outside of SA (and most inside) respects him. If you look at the calibre of the head coaches of the major rugby nations:
Martin Johnson – OK a bit of a gamble but he has respect and a reputation
Graham Henry – Loads of trophies at provincial level, good record with Wales before he took the ABs job
Robbie Deans – Second to none in pedigree, the best coach in the world IMO
Marc Lievremont – the exception! He’s a bit of a joker
Declan Kidney – Masterminded Munsters 1st Heineken Cup win, won the Slam this year against expectations
Warren Gatland – Honours with Waikato, brought respectibility back to Irish rugby before O’Sullivan took over. Won the Slam with Wales in his 1st season
Andy Robinson – RWC winner with Clive Woodward. Respected all over as a great coach if not a great man manager. Time will tell what influence he has on Scotland.
What has PDV won at senior or provincial level?
July 5th, 2009 at 8:51 am
#26 jonnymain: Absolutely right. It’s about time that some of the IRB pink-gin brigade appointed former rugby greats (people such as Morne du Plessis, Zinzan Brooke, John Eales etc.) to be on the citing panels that sit in judgment on today’s players. Instead they have a mish mash of people (administrators, legal counsel etc.) whose actual rugby expertise probably never rose above a social game on their university campus.
July 5th, 2009 at 8:51 am
#22 RugbyStudent: look im not into all this blame snorre or the governement , but please dont speak bullshit and try convince yourself we are making cars and steel because of the anc government
are you that f*&*&ing dumb??
\
Whites in this country made those things before you were even born
So take you racist idiotic bullshit elsewhere
Now on A RUGBY note you mostly talk sense lets leave it at that…
Yes Pdv made a judment error or 2 over this series , he admitted as much
I dont believe he should be fired , and i believe the boks will do well in the tri nations…
July 5th, 2009 at 8:54 am
#30 jonnymain: I missed out the Argy coach because I don’t know enough about their rugby team! And I’m aware that Scotland are not a tier 1 nation anymore
July 5th, 2009 at 8:56 am
Gouyougoodthing
Dude, its very easy to forget what was done in the past but the fact of the matter is this, we are still trying to incorporate those that suffered in the past to the present.
Actually if you know anything about SA history and the kinda ppl u and ur fathers looked up to, you’d realise that the current government is actually being nice to u.
Where else in the world did a government have torture on blacks as a legal method for negotiation?
Yesterday I was at Ellis Park and heard 3 guys, “this biltong tastes k@k, this is k@ffer biltong”!!!
July 5th, 2009 at 8:58 am
#30 jonnymain: Hold on
Martin Johson has won nothing and has no coaching badge to speak of/ or any technical knowledge
Gatland was an assistant at the Chiefs-Kiwis did not want him
Declan Kennedy hahad Gert Smal that has shaped his forwards into a unit of measure and he inherited another mans team
Andy Robinson is a plonker anyone can get a coaching job in Scotland
July 5th, 2009 at 8:58 am
#31 cambok: That’s a good idea but would they be willing to do it? I doubt it myself. Once you retire the last thing you’d want to do would be to sit in judgement and condemn your fellow rugby players!
July 5th, 2009 at 9:02 am
#35 JL1: Agree with you on Johnson, but his playing reputation does count for a lot.
Gatland was head coach of Waikato when they won the NPC a few years back I believe??
Kidney won the 6N and he won the HC. Those are facts. Gert Smal is the forwards coach and a very good one but you can’t deny the influence of Declan Kidney.
We’ll agree to disagree on Robinson. I think he’s got a great rugby brain personally. His time with England was tainted by politics (yes it happens elsewhere!) and an ageing team.
Every one of them is a better coach than PDV….. in my opinion
July 5th, 2009 at 9:06 am
#35 JL1: And you are wrong about Scotland. PDV wouldn’t get the job of national coach even there
July 5th, 2009 at 9:07 am
People on a rugby note … To me the mistake made by the coaching staff is that we experimented in a test
And not only a test against a weak nation , but against the Lions..
To me i always had a problem with 10 changes as it breaks all the working combinations the team has
Breaks all the dynamics .
Had he left Habana , JPP , Bismark , in the team i think it might have been a different story , and although i have said it before i say it again , F steyn is our best fullback
In saying that someone like Kirchner would have performed better with the security of Habana and JPP next to him
WO was not that bad but still for an experienced player ?, and one that had the season he just had ?? he didnt do well
I think also 2 props on the bench was a waste he could have had a Odwa or a Potgieter on the bench,
M Steyn also didnt play well and i hope the people can now open their eyes and see that Ruan is the allround better player , M Steyn is a damn good kicker but needs to up his game from super 14 level , again in saying that he too played behind a pack getting a smack, But his tactical kicking was not good
July 5th, 2009 at 9:07 am
Its funny that you wanna speak rugby but u easily forget the stats of PDiv. He has won a helluva lot more than his lost. I would like to know though why is PDiv blamed for the actions of players who have brain farts the whole day?
I mean what exactly has Bismarck done to attain such high esteem? What exactly has Johan Muller done? On Friday there was an article saying selecting Chilliboy was a farce and that he can’t even get picked for the Bulls side. Well please everybody go look at those comments and watch the highlights of the game.
July 5th, 2009 at 9:08 am
#34 RugbyStudent: Well that’s sad.
I’m over excuses for anyone’s behaviour mate. “Being nice to me?” Whatever, they’re not being very nice to the rest of the country are they. Bunch of Gravy-Train semi socialist fat okes with egos who are systematiccaly raping this country. Anyway, it has nothing to do with rugby.
Rugby facts are: Div doesn’t know what he’s doing, and we are playing like schoolboys. They must all grow up and stop throwing tantrums.
I want to watch rugby, not children with armbands.
July 5th, 2009 at 9:10 am
#36 jonnymain: Make it worth their while financially. I shudder to think how much has been paid to those clowns who have sat in judgment on cited players in this Lions series. What I’m suggesting is that citing panels have one former rugby great (ie one vote in three) so that there is some proper perspective and insight from someone who actually knows the game at test level.
July 5th, 2009 at 9:11 am
#40 RugbyStudent: Dude, Muller may be a ‘nice guy’ but he’s not international standard on a rugby field.
Would have been awesome to see Chilli with Bakkies packing down, but it wasn’t to be so hard to compare.
IMO Smit has Bakkies and Bismark to thank for looking good in the first test. Beast is strong but you take off Bissy in a test or Sharks game and Beast battles as the replacements are never strong enough.
Zane, go back to school, Frans Steyn is a better fb.
July 5th, 2009 at 9:15 am
#38 jonnymain: Mate i dont see why PDV should be fired???
The Boks won the series not the Lions
Nothing you say or anyone says will change that fact
Yes sometimes he says stupid stuff , makes a tactical error of playing a new game plan , and makes wholesale changes to a team whilst playing the Lions
HE STILL WITH THIS TEAM BEAT THE LIONS ETC , So get off the guys back
Boks 2 Lions 1 that will not change
July 5th, 2009 at 9:15 am
#29 goyougoodthing2:
Pull your head back in.
Rugbystudent,people who live in the past isnt helping this country.
Do any of you guys know that coal mining is booming in SA and that there is a lot of exploration going on and that there are a good few new coalmines in the pipeline?
July 5th, 2009 at 9:15 am
#22 RugbyStudent:
Pal… stick to studying rugby and leave the mining industry to us pro’s… I’ll make you look very stupid if you’re going to argue that the RSA mining industry isn’t farked beyond belief… soley due to BEE (to the fatcats)… laughable!
July 5th, 2009 at 9:15 am
#39 sharks_lover: Anyone would have struggled with the quality of ball the tight 5 were giving yesterday. Can’t judge Morne Steyn on that game. Would Pienaar have done any better you wonder?
July 5th, 2009 at 9:16 am
#46 money_man:
Ag please moneyman we are in a global recession.
July 5th, 2009 at 9:17 am
#44 sharks_lover: Honestly, do you REALLY BELIEVE Snor is any good?
Come now, don’t hide behind some luck.
July 5th, 2009 at 9:17 am
#44 sharks_lover: I haven’t said he should be fired, I will say that I don’t think he should have been given the job in the first place.
It’s hard to fire a guy who is winning!
July 5th, 2009 at 9:17 am
Hahaha, that’s ur facts? “Div doesn’t know what he’s doing” lol…mate that’s an opinion and and as schoolboy-esc as you can get.
Just for interest sake do you know the win-loss records of the Super 14 coaches? In a tournament that is rated as the best in the world, what coaches did we pick and what are their records?
July 5th, 2009 at 9:17 am
Those silly armbands are symptomatic of their anarchic and ill-disciplined lack of professionalism. Leadership is lacking.
July 5th, 2009 at 9:19 am
#40 RugbyStudent: Chilli boy didnt play that badly , i for one have no problem with hisd selection
i just feel we should have started because of bismarks stronger scrummaging
what you may not realise is its not only power in the front row but technique
smit bismark and beast know each other so well , and with bakkies already gone , the warning lights should have been on , not to make changes in the front row
yet still i think chilli played quite well , and is not the reason we lost
July 5th, 2009 at 9:19 am
#52 TheTackler:
Tackler,you being a lonely expat with nothing good to say about SA is silly for being here.
Dont you have to go and drink your warm milk and brush your mothers hair?
July 5th, 2009 at 9:22 am
#54 Fern:
July 5th, 2009 at 9:23 am
#51 RugbyStudent: Ask the players what they think of Snor, wait for Smit’s book, gonna be a cooker I hear.
July 5th, 2009 at 9:23 am
#53 sharks_lover: Our scrums need
CJ vand der Linde
BJ Botha
Faan Rautenbach
Daan Human
Werner Kruger
We need 2 new strng number 4 locks
Steenkamp and maybe that new guy at WP
We need a new rugby board and get Smit back in a hooker or get another captain
July 5th, 2009 at 9:29 am
#57 JL1: spot on thats exactly what we need………..but we know pdv will sadly not pick them, as he wont pick players outside SA even though he can…hes a idiot. I believe we also need different selectors
ideally interms of scrumming ability alone and not open play this is our strongest frontrow
1 human/hienke van der merwe
2 smit
3 BJ botha
July 5th, 2009 at 9:30 am
Sharks_lover
Agreed, cj and bj a must if we wanna win in the next world cup. A front row squad of:
1. Beast, Guthro
2. John, Chilliboy
3. Cj, Bj
Would make us proud. Add to that;
4.) Bakkies, Danie
5.) Matfield, Bekker
Then our tight 5 will be awesome
July 5th, 2009 at 9:31 am
The only indiscipline the boks showed (bar the sily schalk incident) was to be dragged into the lions dirty play this tour.
The lions have always played dirty (aka johnson’s lions) and again tried to ruffle the boks feathers this series. WHat did edwards mean before the 2nd test that they wont be intimidated? They were planning to get in our faces. We fell for it.
Unfortunately the boks play with brawn and no brains and loose their cool when maggots like phillips and BOD and sheridan and vicery etc etc start off the ball stuff. Then we try and sort it out ourselves and the refs just love penalising the boks for retaliation.
We need to learn to be more wise on a field and not to get involved and lose our cool n the field. The second thing that needs to happen is that the IRB need to be more consistent in their execution of handing down the law.
July 5th, 2009 at 9:33 am
Disturbing yet very accurate article by JC.
Well thought through and presented.
Of course we will get the fanatics on just now,
Most of them confused themselves.
They will be spewing bile, accusing everyone of being racists.
They will call anyone with apposing views a couple of well trodden names and say we are targeting Snor because he is he is a Coloured, not realizing that Coloured is a definition of pigmentation and not one’s ability as a human being.
But the unfortunate truth will remain.
I feel sorry for Snor because he is taking a lot of heat. He also seems like a decent sort of fellow. BUT he ain’t a Springbok coach, not by a country mile, not yet. Just not up to the job.
Bring JW in as DOR so that he can pull the strings and coach the coach for a few years. Get rid of the amateur assistants. Beg Solomons, Percy and Pieter Russouw to come on board.
Very important, get rid of the PR-machine and get a Keo type crew in place. Although opinionated he knows damn well what he is doing and everyone seems to underestimate the impact of negative press and sound public relations on the team itself.
It’s a win, win for all.
July 5th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Great article and it should now be plain for all to see… we reallu only played 60 minutes of decent world champion rugby the whole series. I can’t think the excuse of the players not having the heart yesterday because the series was won as being true – these guys play as hard as they can in every test match…they were just hammered by a better team. Changing the front row and the back 3 was silly. I thought Zane had an OK game but he made some glaring mistakes in defence. Nokwe was blown away and Odwa was as solid yet unspectacular as always, just a pity about his disallowed try. Knankowski’s name was mentioned for involvement on play more times in the first 20 minutes than Spies’ was in the the first 2 tests put together, so I think Spies also needs to take a breather as 8th man.
. Also, there seemed to be a multitude of Lions joining the rucks from offside positions, but maybe that was just the TV angle. And then I would REALLY like to know about Heaslip’s (I think) clean out of Juan Smith….was that not EXACTLY the same as what Bakkies did last week? As far as I know he hasn’t been cited?
I thought Dickinson missed a lot of players ahead of the Lions kickers whenever they bombed their up and unders, but that foolish Frenchman on the touchline was never going to understand ALL the rules was he?
Shaw’s knee was disgraceful but let’s see what happens to him – the end of thier season so I don’t think he’ll give a hoot if they ban him for 2 weeks.
Nevertheless, this is not about the game, it’s about the rot that’s set in. The JW legacy that the players have held on to and that has carried them this far through de Villiers’ inept coaching ids now wearing thin and the resultant mess is being brutally exposed.
I fear we have yet another 3rd place in the Tri Nations to look forward to…
July 5th, 2009 at 9:49 am
#61 Bul-a-Bhloo: well balanced article – 3 days ago the keo lot all agreed that fielding a 2nd string team with the eye on the 3N is not such a bad idea – today they criticize because he did make the changes… pathetic journalism if you ask me
July 5th, 2009 at 9:49 am
Best SA TEAM: 1.BEAST/HEINKE 2.BISMARK/SMIT 3.BJ/CJ 4.BAKKIES 5.VICTOR 6.BRUSSOUW 7.JUAN 8.BIG JOE 9.PIENAAR(FOURIE maak te stadig skoon.) 10.M STEYN 11.HABANA 12.JEAN 13.FOURIE 14.JPP 15.F STEYN
July 5th, 2009 at 9:49 am
Great article, speaks to the very heart of the matter. My grandmother could coach this current Bok side to a few wins and she knows less about rugby than Div.
The fact is that we are not getting better we are getting worse. I am just glad that we managed to win the series despite this plonker.
No doubt his defense will be something abstract like purple mechanics and chinese astronauts.
July 5th, 2009 at 9:59 am
snor
takes
a lot
of heat
but he knows
he will
keep
his job
that’s why
he made
his job
even more
political
by officially
backing
the anc
our rugby
is fooked
our problem
is our
politics
we live in
africa
July 5th, 2009 at 10:00 am
Thats not really fair- I thought this tam would od better and so did you. I did not take intoa ccount that were were playing with effectively 7 forwards as Muller does NOTHING effective at rucks. We will never get clean ball if he plays. Neither do the Sharks.
July 5th, 2009 at 10:06 am
#66 Porra the Fat Speedster: True. But if we like rugby we need to find ways to work around these hurdles.
#63 BrusselsBok: I believe we are painting on a much wider canvas this morning. I think it was sound to make the changes as the game was a dead rubber. I think we were all surprised at the lack of synergy (lack of coaching) yesterday.
July 5th, 2009 at 10:06 am
When PdV wins the Lions series keo.co.za crucifies him.When Jake White lost a record 40 something nil a few years ago in Australia they say nothing. Racists. Idiots
July 5th, 2009 at 10:09 am
#69 Freestater: Ah, the first one arises. Must be a bugger carrying that chip on your shoulder?
July 5th, 2009 at 10:09 am
tam = team
od = do
July 5th, 2009 at 10:12 am
#64 THE ROCK: Big joe? Did you just step out of a time machine from 1998? Isn’t big joe retired? Because he has been NOWHERE for the last 4 years…
July 5th, 2009 at 10:18 am
Twakkies se komentar oor hoekom die Bokke gister so swak was:
“sometimes your car doesn’t start and it could be because your alternator wasn’t serviced properlyand you put unleaded petrol in when it needed diesel. But the serviceplan hasn’t expired so we can all get new spark plugs”
July 5th, 2009 at 10:18 am
The Lions got away with murder in all three tests. O’Driscoll wasn’t even cited for his no-arms tackle that took Rossouw out, Schalk’s head was nearly taken of in a high tackle, Habana was almost decapitated – intentionally; Shaw kneed Fourie du Preez into oblivion… And although the Springboks played absolutely atrocious rugby, the coaching is even worse.
And the Lions shouldn’t be too proud of their victory. Watch the video again – in the build-up to the first try there was (unintentional) obstruction that should have given the Springboks a scrum; in the second try the tap-back was about 2 metres forward. Dickenson’s record against South Africa? Something like 3 test wins for SA when he’s got the whistle, and 7 defeats.
Oh, and Smit isn’t a prop OR a hooker and I can’t seeing him last to the World Cup; so let’s get a new captain. Just not JdV, Schalk or Matfield!! Juan Smith or Luke Watson are better bets – they are the only Super14 captains who could help the team.
July 5th, 2009 at 10:20 am
john was huffing and puffing he doesnt sound fit
July 5th, 2009 at 10:22 am
#74 DaveyJ:
pdv
is getting
away
with murder
too
July 5th, 2009 at 10:30 am
No doubt about it, even though we won the series, this loss was very disappointing. Especially the “headless chicken” manner of the loss.
So lets compare the positives and negatives of this coaching tenure. Surely, a settled team packed with the most experienced players in SA history, World Cup winners, you’d expect the positives to vastly outweigh the negatives?
POSITIVES
- First ever win away at Dunedin, and the Boks first win in NZ since 1998.
- Record win over Aus at Ellis Park
- Record win over England at Twickenham (in fact England’s biggest loss at Twickenham ever)
- Unbeaten NH tour (albeit France and Ireland were not played)
- Series win against the B&I Lions
- 71% success rate (to view this *** a genuine positive is in my view a symbol of mediocrity, it is only to be viewed as a positive in light of the previous coaches’ records)
NEGATIVES
- First ever NIL at home in losing 19-0 to NZ
- First loss against Aus at home since 2000
- Finished last in the Tri-Nations 2008
- Struggled to wins over Wales (twice in the early season, once on the EOYT), Italy (early season), Scotland and B&I Lions. The manner of the wins is disappointing, one gets a sense the Boks are trying to make winning difficult for themselves.
- First loss at Ellis Park since 2001.
Do the positives outweigh the negatives? Or is it just about even stevens at the moment? The Tri-Nations will be very interesting.
The jury is still out as to whether we are progressing or regressing.
July 5th, 2009 at 10:31 am
#74 DaveyJ:
which sa
s14 captain
won the s14
twice
July 5th, 2009 at 10:34 am
#76 Porra the Fat Speedster: Ja, AND bad judgment, stupid pronouncements, weird selections, horrible substitutions… And the worst is, he defends every stupid decision. If he can convert the energy he uses to talk manure to learn something about test rugby, he will be a brilliant coach. Worts of all, he’s dragging **** Muir and Gary Gold down with him. They just look incompetent at this stage.
July 5th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Sorry, one more negative – biggest ever loss to the B&I Lions.
July 5th, 2009 at 10:40 am
This article is disappointing to say the least, why the fk do our press jump on the band wagon and start slating the boks for indiscipline when we know full well that the B&I Lions discipline was absolutley shocking. GO BOKKE!!!!
July 5th, 2009 at 10:41 am
#78 Porra the Fat Speedster: Smit is an inspirational caption, Matfield is just a good captain. There IS a difference. And the Bulls had a better coach than the Boks have.
But will Matfield last until 2011? Or Smit? Methinks not. So… we’re building for 2011, but we’re not giving the 2011 captain an opportunity to arrive at the World Cup with 30 tests as captain under his belt? JdV is injury-prone, Smit is not under the three best players in his position, Matfield is getting older… Oy vey. Bad times ahead. And with a coach like PdV a strong leader on the field is a necessity!!
July 5th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Our T5 got totally out played, the gap between Bakkies and Muller was huge. Juan at 7 is a spectator, so was Kanko , we missed Spies at the rucks.
Steyn did well when he came on, but Jongi is and aws terrible , how he could be picked above the other twin, only Peter will know.
Play
1 Beast /Gurthro
2 Bissey/Kuhn
3 Smit/Werner
4 Bakkies/Danie
5 Vic/ Bekker
6 Brussouw
7 Schalla/ Potgieter
8 Spies / Kanko
9 FdP/ Ruan
10 Morne/ Ruan
11 Habs/Twin
12 WO/ JdV
13 JF/ AD
14 Jpp/ Twin
15 Sten/ Zane
July 5th, 2009 at 10:44 am
#74 DaveyJ: luke watson as springbok capt. ha ha ha ..are you kidding me, don’t be silly man. watson is gone and i hope he stays there.
July 5th, 2009 at 10:47 am
#79 DaveyJ: The minit you talk Watson shows lack of Rugby knowledge , nee sis man
July 5th, 2009 at 10:56 am
#83 capebull: I agree with your team, might have Potgeiter instead of schalla as first choice.
I thought Zane, Muller and Jongi were very poor. Morne, Brussouw and Wynand played well.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:00 am
I still think Pienaar is the better option at flyhalf.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:08 am
Its time for the old gaurd to stand down and new blood to come in. Its natural for players sticking toghere and promoting their mates. But we must start blooding new players…
Muller thank-you but sorry mate but heart doesnt always count.
But more important is to have a coach that has been sucesfull at S14 level.
Springbok coach is not learning…you should know enough ALREADY!!! I backed Snor to introduce running and brains rugby. Players who play the Ball. We have some old schoolers here who need to take a rest.
But Snor has shown his inexperince escpecailly when it came to uncontested scrum, thier action there was clear stupidty.
Oh to be a Bok suppoerter…with so much politics…I suppose the ANC will f@ck anything thats works properly from the old days…oh look north ouens to see whats coming….
July 5th, 2009 at 11:08 am
Lessons out of 3rd test:
PDV although series was won to make 10 changes is suicidal in this team sport. I will concede that it was the only opportunity to assess the depth of the squad.
Dickinson I thought had a poor game esp blowing up Beast when I saw him only once slipping his bind.
Chili needs to jack his scrummaging cos his allround play is phenomenal.
Johann Muller is not up to test level and Kanko and Spies are both front foot players when their packs dominate but are unable to put in the hard yards. Please PDV call up Vermeulen or Watson.
Fourie and Morne both kicked good ball away too often and compounded this with inaccurate kicking. When will our players learn to play the situation and not kick for the sake of so called structure. Good example Zane kicking ball in the first 5 minutes with 2 man overlap.
Meisiekind is not up to test standard period. First try direct result of not tackling his man (never mind the hallelujah long pass). The prejudice against Adi is clear for me to see. No ways that JDV/AJ combo is matched in this country although I don’t mind JF as well.
FS is a fullback no further debate.
The manner in which we were rucked off the ball is frightening. We missed Bakkies and Schalla.
Time is now to invest in some new blood. PDV pick BJ or CJ. Bring in Potgieter, Deysel, Vermaak.
This senior player bullshit will also come to an end by bringing these new players in. No place for prima donnas (Div take a cue from Sir Alex). In any event it would be stupid to invest in the senior players for the defence of 2011. Most of them, probably, would lack the self belief to win Bill in NZ!!
Conrats PDV for your achievements to date but be firm and make the calls now, 2011 is around the corner.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:11 am
#53 sharks_lover:
He seemed to be standing around alot, fringing alot, and at 1 stage in 1st H was keeled over sucking for breath.
Completely out of his depth. You gotta feel sorry for the fella actually, those selections do more harm than good.
#74 DaveyJ:
Oh go stick a stupid arrogant ‘Justice’ billboard on your head and go to work on proving the Boks eternal innocense.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:14 am
#74 DaveyJ: you have got to be kidding luke the bok captain….
ja lets get the guy who hates the bokke and make him captain it would be a disaster none of the players respect him due to has disgusting comments…………not to mention he isnt good enough to be in the team as brussouw stegman & baywatch are all better opensiders, and if he wants to play No.8 then
spies,vermulen, potgieter (hes originally a No.8), joe van niekerk are all better than him
Also john smit is a hooker and a bloody good one & an excellent captain to get rid of him would be maddness. he brings stability to the boks and it is clear that him and the older players of the squad are running the show not snor.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Bottomline is our coach is a dumbass
I mean he almost lost the first test and he really can’t take any credit for what happened in the 2nd
And then he made ten changes for the third test
BUT
How kak must McGeechan not feel to lose against such an utter moron?
July 5th, 2009 at 11:18 am
#52 TheTackler:
No, that was clearly Smits idea, read his diatribe about Bakkies the day before. The Captain is clearly running the ship but I think he’s been drinking too much of his own urine.
Me thinks some success has finally gone to someones head.
And dont believe the ‘Justice’ BS was solely about Bakkies, if you read Smits diatribe you will quickly figure out that the Boks think they are saving the game of rugby, doing us all a favour and preserving the games essence.
The single most arrogant thing I have ever seen on a rugby field. Thank God they didnt grace that with a victory. In fact, it was dis-graceful !
I would have hoped the Safas would have jumped up and down in disgust. But they seem blind and drunk on success of beating a fairly crappy Lions team. Only Skoppie seems to have any honour and has ridiculed them too. If an AB stuck that on his jersey, a jersey that has represented the nations peoples for 100+yrs, over 1 player getting a deserved ban, Id want him lynched. Lynched I say !
July 5th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Fact is that is not only us South Africans who think that PDV is a joke and useless.
The WHOLE ENTIRE RUGBY WORLD agrees.
Does that make the whole planet racists? Don’t think so.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:22 am
#93 WakaNathan: I think the whole thing is a fiasco. Super embarrassed.
Arm bands? FFS children who can’t swim wear armbands. Not national rugby players.
They are children not men
July 5th, 2009 at 11:27 am
JC
I think, No I know, that you are spot on. All this **** remids me of the dark days of Struilli: the Boks is trying to win the fights; constant changing selections to get the “special” player(s) that will win us the game; the Boks playing as individuals; bad relations with the media; little struckture in play, weird team selections etc. etc.etc.
I am a great fan of Zane, but why the fck must his first game be against the Lions!?! guys l;ike that should play their first game against Italy or Tonga.
I just can’t fcking believe that we are going back in time. Why the fck don’t SARU learn from their past mistakes!
And yes, I don’t for one second blame Smittie. If it wasn’t for him we would have lost against the Lions.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:29 am
#94 WilladieLeeu: Yes, you should read what the Brits say about the clown.
Funny that all the “racists” does not complain about Paul Treu (or JPP or Habana for that matter). Maybe because they are damn good about what they do.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:32 am
#94 WilladieLeeu: no to some here on this blog (with their big chips) it would make the rest of the world western imperialistic racists
July 5th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Paul True is a legend. Habana is a monster. JPP is fantastic. Chester Williams was a hero in this country.
Fact is that we welcome non-white players and we actually embrace them if theyre good. We are not racists – we want people in their positions that deserve it.
We face AA everyday, and it caused me to lose out on my dream job that I worked towards for years. I was told I was the best qualified, and just before I was appointed – I was told sorry…we have to appoint some-one black. Pissed me off, but it still didn’t make me angry.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:35 am
#52 TheTackler:
Agreed, those arm bands were schoolboy – absolutely cringworthy and pathetic.
Then, again, everyone knows that the assistant coaches and the senior players are running the show so i guess the armband incident was moment the players started to run the ship (as opposed to the assistant coaches first, players 2nd).
On yesterdays evidence the balance might have gone too far.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:35 am
“The Boks are an aggravated lot, just as they were under Rudolf Straeuli. ”
****
“a fact that confirms all is not well in the South African camp.”
hogwash
“Most of these Bok players have been together for five years and a number boast over 50 caps.”
bullcrap
Here you are JC, a representative of the WP mob trying to invent a ready made excuse to make it look like poor Schalkie was a victim of the coaches philosophy.
What nonsense. Burger was the sole party responsible for trying to deface an innocent man.
Oh it is true.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:36 am
#92 bestyearever:
I don’t really think McGeechan is to blame. His team twice couldn’t finish off the Boks when they had the upper hand. He is a more-than-decent coach – his team just didn’t pull it off.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:36 am
#93 WakaNathan: Why you take so much notice of our Countries Rugby Team?
Bakkies was banned and it was unfair. By a kiwi may I add.
Its about time the players can have a voice if it means wearing arm band so damn well be it.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:37 am
#101 RedLion:
It makes sense.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:41 am
#97 LondonBul:
Bul, the Irish press haven’t been complimentary about P Divvy either.
There has been a public outcry about the Eye-gouging on our Fitzy, and about Bokke thuggery being lauded generaly by P Divvy, that is comparable to that of the AB players and management in 2005.
To this day the AB’s are as popular as a dose of **** rot.
The same is now true of the Bokkes.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:47 am
#103 Puma:
1. Im a rugby fan. The whole rugby World has been watching this Series, not just(ice) yours.
2. Unfair ? so when he took out Mortlock last year with same no-arms headbutt, that was OK too ?
3. Youre a better man than that Puma. The Boks thought their message was to ’save rugby’. You now have a situation where the players have put themselves above the jersey. Think about the repurcussions.
Youre the most balanced guy on this whole blog. Maybe Im one of the least balanced. But that ‘Justice’ BS is just plain wrong.
Tell me, if everyone in SA seems to agree the Lions were ‘whingers’, how is Justice not ?
wrong wrong wrong.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:48 am
#102 boktoinfinityandbeyond:
Yeah i agree with that.
His players (majority anyway) seemed to fear and respect us too much to do the business
He is to blame for selections though
First test his selections were wrong
First and second test didn’t look like as much a Lions team as it did a combo of Wales and Ireland…Boks didn’t believe they would lose against them, they didn’t believe they could win.
It was only when more English players were picked in the 3rd test and we had an almost B team that they actually believed they could win
July 5th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Obviously pressure is mounting to see the end of PDV, but unfortunately this will only gather real momentum when the boks start to lose. Sadly that we only have to wait a few weeks for that. PDV is no match for Deans and Henry. Losing while having the best players in the world is going to do tremendous damage to SA Rugby and for many of the senior players who have won everything, it might be the opportunity they have been waiting for to do some time in Europe or even retire.
However, what I would really like to know is why Oregan Hoskins avoids all the flak. Here is a guy, hell bent on getting rid of Jake White, all his insiders and all his structures that brought us THE WORLD CUP! He has replaced him with poor old PDV, clearly out of out his depth, dangerously stubborn and arguably a “sandwich short of a packed launch”. PDV seems to be busying himself with destroying what should be one of the greatest rugby machines ever assembled. In the Lions series, it almost seemed like he has been desperately trying to lose, only to be denied by his players. Finally on Saturday, with wholesale changes, he got his loss!
Back to Hoskins – Should we not be asking serious questions about this guys leadership and judgement? Should not he be the won under scrutiny? I think he has a lot to answer for and hopefully when the Boks get a hiding by NZ and Australia those questions will finally be asked and dealt with swiftly.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:55 am
oh what utter horsemanure.
we have just won a lions series.
what must the discipline have been like in 97.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:55 am
#108 harleeb: Yes, good point, I think PdV is the symptom not the cause.
If we could get someone who has the interest of Rugby at heart, not some agenda.
The Sharks did not do very well when Hoskins was in charge – in fact their rugby improved when he left (S14 final).
July 5th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
@CAB – yes we did win a Lions series but this was not a good Lions side and they made their fair share of blunders. We should have beaten them by 40 points 3 times in a row. NZ and Australia would both have buried them with no let off….
July 5th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
#111 harleeb: Have to agree there.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
#111 harleeb:
i disagree this was a very good lions side, albeit a bunch of whinging twats, vickery excluded.
when have we ever beaten a lions side or any other by 40 points 3 times in a row.
i never saw that under JW, i see a 36-0 win which was the best in 4 years, i’ve seen bigger under PdV in 1 year.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
#111 harleeb: I’m not too sure that NZ or Aus would have buries the B&I Lions, their recent performances haven’t been spectacular
July 5th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
#108 harleeb: I don’t think we will get a hiding from NZ or Aus but I do think hoskins is a twat and maybe should consider early retirement.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Arrogant selection decisions by PDV backfired on the Boks.
First rule of international rugby: respect your opposition – field your best team.
Second rule of international rugby: 1% improvement at international level may be all that is needed.
Third rule of rugby: follow rule number 1.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Morning all
Thought I’d add my two cents worth. The performance on Saturday was poor but the difference was that the Lions took their chances. The Boks have not been great for the entire series and the only time we looked formidable was when we raced to a 19 point lead in Durbs. My biggest gripe is our defence. It is absolutely shocking. We used to have the most agressive, solid defence in world rugby, it was a vertitable wall of solid green that even the likes of Ma’a Nonu had trouble breaking down. That Shane Williamd who is desperately out of form crossed twice is disappointing. Why does PDV persist with his delussional “total rugby” gameplan. It does not work. If we play anywhere near the level we have in this series we are going to have our collective ***’ handed to us in the 3N. I can’t take another wooden spoon in a competition we should be dominating what with the Aussie youngsters and Kiwi departures!!
July 5th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
#113 cab:
44-20 vs All Blacks at Ellispark?
July 5th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
#116 wardie: one good thing came from the selections at least we know that jongi, muller and zane should not be selected to play in the tri nations
July 5th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Can anybody refer me to a site I can go to to see team line-ups per game with Caps etc?
July 5th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
#120 WilladieLeeu:
Try scrum.com they might have it, you can certainly find out the number of caps for individual players.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
LETS BOYCOTT THE 3 HOME TRI-NATIONS TESTS
OWING TO THE EXTREME GREAD OF SARFU(IN SETTING LIONS TEST TICKETS AT R1 140) LETS ALL NOT ATTEND THE 3 TRI NATIONS GAMES….THEY DESERVE TO GET WHAT THEY GIVE!!
July 5th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
I agree our defence was shocking, at least things improved when Frans came on, but we were also outplayed upfront which allowed them to have a good attacking platform. With a whole new back line (apart from 9) one could hardly expect us to gel within one game.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
#119 byoboy:
i for one will be most happy to never see nokwe in the green and gold again!!morne steyn is better coming off the bench and ruan pienaar should be first choice flyhalf.i didnt even see muller on the park let alone hear the commentators talking about him.
on the good side frans steyn,brussow chiliboy(overall) and odwa played really well especially brussow who happens to be pretty strong for his size ,martyn williams can confirm that after he was picked up and dumped like a sack of potatoes
July 5th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
#122 GARY H: I agree that they are a fkn greedy bunch of mofos but the tri nations tickets are normal prices (aren’t they?) and they are included in most season ticket purchases.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
#124 mbaxman93: Brussouw’s pick and drop of williams was a classic, he definitely deserves his spot. I thought spies was missed during loose play and that Frans showed some class when he came on. We won the series so it was good to just have a look at the other back up players before 3N. Although Jongi’s speed is excellent he looks nervous to be tackled and is bad on defence. Muller hovered round the back of the mauls without getting stuck in, far to often, wasn’t pretty.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
#118 WilladieLeeu:
a difference of 24 points is hardly a 40 pointer victory in three matches.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
#117 Thameside Bok fan: I think he should really look at a video of the Bulls game against the Chiefs.
If we go and play like we did yesterday we will be bottom of the Tri-Nations once again.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
#124 mbaxman93: Did anyone hear Hugh Bladen’s chirp after Brussouw picked Williams up and dropped him again…?
“Well, he looks like he picked him up and dumped him in the back of his bakkie”
Classic stuff and I’m sure one to make the quote of the series.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
#126 byoboy: I just wonder why Sykes never started ahead of Muller? He is a far better player at 4.
I know we should not laugh at that Brussow pick up of Williams but it was so damn funny. Looked like he picked up a rag doll and just dumped him down. Probably because Brussow is not the biggest of players. Never thought he had such strength
July 5th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
#129 thefeather:
That is just so funny. No never heard it went to the game and have not watched the replay yet.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
#93 WakaNathan:
Cheer up it wasn’t that big a deal. So you don’t like Bakkies, that doesn’t mean his team mates shouldn’t back him if he’s treated unfairly (which even the Lions players and management believe he was).
July 5th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Cab you lucky oke enjoy your day in Paris.
Cheers all out of here now.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
A few people commented on Kirchner – true he didn’t have a good game, but seriously – he only got the callup to the Bok squad on Monday morning, and then starts a test on the Saturday with two inexperienced B team wings with him – what can you expect from the guy?
July 5th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
#132 rich1:
what self-effacing BS.
Actually Ive repeatedly said I rate Bakkies highly and would be 1 of my 1st picked. But I would know the inherent risks. He was cited, banned and an appeal overruled. And yet we have to put up with this Justice BS, as if the Boks have come to Save Rugby.
or as todays Times so rightly put it:-
“Peter de Villiers, the South Africa coach, began the week by demeaning the game with his refusal to condemn eye-gouging. He demeaned the Springbok jersey by leaving out some leading players. In the second half, in a panic, he brought on the fifth cavalry, only to find that their bugle was silenced.
South Africa wore armbands in support, so they said, of Bakkies Botha, who was suspended after the second Test. Botha’s suspension was then confirmed by an independent tribunal, and Adam Jones, the Lions prop whom Botha illegally charged, could be out of the game for nine months. The sheer inappropriate pomposity of South Africa’s gesture took the breath away, and they should remember that their status as world champions conveys a responsibility to the game at large, not simply to one player.”
And to think the Boks/Safas had called the Lions ‘whingers’ all week, in the same week their player was banned for eye-gouging. Arrogance and pomposity in the extreme.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
#134 rich1: Isn’t that the point? He wasn’t picked “in case” he was good enough…he was picked because he was meant to step up to the plate from the word go. This isn’t a playground selection strategy, well, it’s not meant to be.
He was ordinary in the Emerging Boks side and he was ordinary yesterday. Nokwe has played very well for the Boks before and 4 tries against Australia is a monumental achievement but he looked sorely out of his depth yesterday. Chiliboy’s loose play was very good but his scrumming is not strong enough, although against a fairly experienced front row he was always going to struggle. After yesterday’s showing he’s definitely worth keeping in the mix until he strengthens up – his legs are way too skinny for a front-rower!
Amazing what a big difference a few vital positional changes make.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
#135 WakaNathan:
Go get some Prozac from your shrink, or find a nice girl – you’re getting a little too worked up about this for your own health.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
This Boks team missed a great opportunity to go down in history as the ONLY team to have whitewashed the Lions in SA.
PDV underestimted the Lions and paid a massive price. He has missed a place in history.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
#130 Puma: I agree, i’d have sykes before muller.
ja, one had to laugh at that pick and drop.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
later people
July 5th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
#136 thefeather:
Fair point – but if he gets drafted into the Bok squad because of injury he’d be there with Habana and JP with him, which would calm his nerves and give him some confidence. That said, I think he’s a competent player who has worked hard and has good coaching but doesn’t offer anything extra like Frans Steyn does.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
#135 WakaNathan:
The Lions have been miserable and dismissive and ungrcious since the day they arrived. South Africans get sick of whingers, we find it negative and a pain in the arse. Stransky, who has tried to bend over backwrds in interviewing these guys, actually said to mgeechan it seems to far on the tour you have not been very happy so today must have changed all that. we simply cannot understand where all this whinging comes from. we’ve never seen an outcry like the burger incident before, where something like that can overshadow an entire series. Your lot and the english have both a long history of eye gouging, its never been condoned, the SA coach never condoned it, Burger was cited and banned, so why all the hullabaloo?
July 5th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
#135 WakaNathan: in case you havent noticed 90% of the bloggers here arent blaming the ref,weather ,opposition ! we are blaming the coach and some of the players for losing , which makes us different to the BIl whingers because they blamed everyone and everything besides their own team .
July 5th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
1min – Steyn kicks off. Peter De Villiers penalised at the ruck and Stephen Jones finds touch.
2min – Lions win the lineout, and a long passage of play follows with Peter De Villiers twice kicking down field and Martyn Williams having a good run. The Lions get into the Boks half and are awarded a penalty.
4min – Peter De Villiers penalised for taking a Lions player out at the lineout. Kearney kicks for touch. It’s all Lions at the moment.
8min – First scrum, and Peter De Villiers stands up and the Lions get the penalty. Jake will love that!
12min – Flutey penalised for offsides and Du Preez takes quick tap. Boks send it wide and Peter De Villiers knocks on.
13min – The Lions work their way into the Bok 22 but Smit steals the ball on the ground and the Boks kick upfield. Kearney’s kick doesn’t go out. Boks charge forward, and Peter De Villiers’ drop attempt falls well short.
17min – Boks win the linout and take the ball to the left-hand side of the field before Peter De Villiers knocks on.
18min – First Lions scrum gets reset three times. Lots going on in the front row. Lions finally win the free kick against Peter De Villiers.
20min – Peter De Villiers tries to grubber ahead but the ball rebounds off Kearney and goes into touch. Peter De Villiers is doing a lot of running from inside his own half.
21min – Boks win the lineout and set up the maul. Morne Steyn chips ahead for Kankowski but the ball alludes Peter De Villiers. Out of sympathy, the Lions knock on.
22min – From a Bok scrum Olivier sends Fourie into space, who’s brought down inside the Lions 22. Peter De Villiers goes wide again but the Lions force a turnover close to their tryline. Fourie leaves the field with blood streaming down his face as a result of Peter De Villiers. Frans Steyn replaces him.
24 min – TRY: SHANE WILLIAMS
The Lions work their way into the Bok half, and Heaslip charges forward. Peter De Villiers makes contact with the No 8 but doesn’t take him to ground and he passes to Williams on his outside who scores next to the posts. Jones botches the conversions after Peter De Villiers knocks the ball off the tee.
BOKS 3 LIONS 8
27min – Ndungane breaks down the right-hand touchline, but Peter De Villiers’ overhead pass is collected by Heaslip and the Lions get the scrum. Fourie is back on the field no thanks to Peter De Villiers.
28min – Peter De Villiers is penalised again at the scrum for not binding. Another victory for Jake. Kearney kicks for touch.
31min – TRY: SHANE WILLIAMS
Lions turn over Peter De Villiers’ balls on the Lions 10m line and go wide. Flutey kicks ahead and taps the ball into Williams hands. Jones kicks the conversion.
BOKS 3 LIONS 15
36min – Peter De Villiers uses the knee on Du Preez and is yellow carded (but because he’s useless, the Lions decide to overrule the yellow to allow him to stay on the field to eff up some more)
39min – Peter De Villiers takes it up and is smashed in the tackle. Lions get the penalty. The Boks had to score there having turned down the three points.
HALF-TIME
A disappointing half from Peter De Villiers. Peter De Villiers kicked poorly out of hand and struggled in the scrums. Lions should win this, but that’s what we thought ever since Peter De Villiers took over from Jake.
Pienaar is on for Du Preez who has a leg injury. Muir says Peter De Villiers has given the Lions too much ball.
43min – The Boks have an overlap out wide but the ball goes to Peter De Villiers who bashes it up. Boks are penalised. Wasted opportunity.
45min – Peter De Villiers’ kick goes straight into touch. Bad mistake from the coach.
49min – Bok lineout near the halfway line, from which Peter De Villiers knocks the ball on.
51min – Pienaar breaks from the lineout. The ball goes wide to Peter De Villiers who loses the ball forward with the tryline in sight.
52min – The Lions are penalised at the scrum. Peter De Villiers the culprit (what can we say?).
53min – TRY: UGO MONYE
Peter De Villiers turns down the three points and sets up a maul from the lineout. Peter De Villiers goes wide and Monye intercepts a long pass from Peter De Villiers to Peter De Villiers and scores under the posts.
BOKS 6 LIONS 22
57min – Jake kicks from inside his 22 and finds touch on the Lions 10m line. Great kick. Bravo! Bravo!
58min – Peter De Villiers is brought to ground on the touchline and tries to go blind but puts a foot in touch while holding the blindfold.
60min – Peter De Villiers penalised for holding on. Kearney has a shot from 52m out … and it goes just wide due to Peter De Villiers shifting the goal posts. Damn u Peter! Damn you to hell.
64min – Peter De Villiers throw not straight.
65min – Frans Steyn goes for a drop goal from 60m out … and it’s just wide after being distracted by Peter De Villiers.
68min – O’Connell wins the Lions lineout and they take the ball through five phases. The ball is kicked ahead but several Boks beat Phillips to the ball. A big punch up begins with Peter De Villiers heavily involved. The assistant referee says Peter De Villiers grabbed a Lions player by the collar. Players get a talking to and Peter De Villiers is penalised.
70min – PENALTY: STEPHEN JONES
BOKS 9 LIONS 25
71min – Peter De Villiers late tackles Jones after the flyhalf kicked. Peter De Villiers lost Jake’s plot here.
72min – PENALTY: STEPHEN JONES
BOKS 9 LIONS 28
75min – The Boks win the lineout, and the ball goes wide to Du Plessis, who throws a long pass to Peter De Villiers who appears to dot down as his right foot brushes the line. After several replays the Peter De Villiers interrupts the TMO and says … “NO TRY, my bad”.
76min – Peter De Villiers runs the ball up only to knock on again. This is getting painful to watch.
80min – Boks go wide and Peter De Villiers is brought to ground. Jones hacks the ball into touch and Jake celebrates.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
they were beaten fair and square, 2-1, next lady for a shave.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
#144 Grape White:
Good report, that’s how i saw it. Drop de Villiers and we’ll win everything
July 5th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
#136 thefeather: I hear what you say but you should also bear in mind that usually if something ain’t broke it should not be fixed.
The boks won a series in which lady luck shone on them by a a considerable amount as well. The wins were everything but convincing and in both cases peppered by unexplainable timing of bench replacements. The tri-nations wil tell us how good the Lions really were or how bad the Boks really are.
I am sure that PdV is a rugby coach of sorts but he is either unable to make this lot play to their potential or he is just way out of his depth. John Plumtree is not exactly the most sucessful rugby coach in S14 if one judges at how the Sharks petered out so why he was asked to help with the scrumming it is a mistery.
What desperately needs soem new brains on board is a back line. We were unable to penetrate, draw more than one defender and off load. Now compared to what BOD could do with our centres that should be a major concern. WO just tried to bash his way through (and we went back to the Straueli days) in what was pretty dumb rugby.
Changing 10 players in a test 15 against a pretty damn good side is not only lunacy but also stupidity. What did PdV larn from yesterday? Nothing, absolutely nothing. In actual fact of the substitute 10 probably only 1 or 2 made the grade.
Chilliboi – failure (as much as I wanted him to succeed his tight play was way below par and never carried the ball forward)
Muller – failure he is not a no4
Brussow – OK
Kanko – failure he was everywhere else either then where he was needed
Pienaar (at 9) – falure he might as well have phoned what he was doing
Steyn – not great but probably would get a pass or a second chance
WO – failure (either than a strong defence he did nothing else)
JF – he had a mediocre game no break throughs
Nokwe – he needs many more years before he is even anywhere near Habanero’s shoe laces. Weak in defence and out of position
Ndungane – mediocre not great but shoudl get a secodn chance
Kirchner – (the biggest disappointment of the lot nowhere in defence to organise the postions of his wings)
What does this teach PdV?
July 5th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
And the hate-mongers calling themselves rugby journalists continue. Jeez, give it a rest Cannelloni! Did you ever stop and think that we can never get a straight answer from PdV because of you guys? I mean, everything he says is bound to be distorted, taken out of context and sensationalised to fit the agendas (and fragile egos) of the hack concerned (we witnessed this play out this past week as the British hacks did everything in their power to deflect attention from the deficiencies of their team and management). Who knows, if you change your usual tabloid-quality articles, you may even win an SAB award next year. Hell, Ryan Vrede won one this year, so the competition can’t be that strong anyway!
July 5th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
#48 Fern:
Not here in Aus… business is better than ever…
July 5th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
#127 cab:
Mate, you said that 36-0 was the only big winning margin achieved my the Boks under Jake…I only pointed the score out to a big margin over the best team in the world.
Nr 6 in the world over Nr 1 at that time.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
#113 cab:
“when have we ever beaten a lions side or any other by 40 points 3 times in a row. i never saw that under JW, i see a 36-0 win which was the best in 4 years, i’ve seen bigger under PdV in 1 year.”
One could add that it was on White’s watch that we saw things like the 36-12, “boys against men” loss against England. Also worth recalling that this happened on a tour that began with plenty of over-confident talk about grand slams, etc.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Could someone be so kind as to please list all the credentials or achievements of the current SA coaching team?
PdV:
Muir:
Gold:
Did Muir only coach the Sharks? Who is Gary Gold exactly?
PS: I am not trying to be funny or sarcastic, I really don’t know (can’t remember) what the CVs of these gentlemen would look like.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Great series win for the Bokke, can’t understand why PDV wouldn’t want to make history though and whitewash them, it was pretty clear after the Loftus test that a weakened Bokke side would struggle.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
#135 WakaNathan: “Independent tribunal.” Wat se k@k is dit? Who were those 3 “wise men” on that tribunal and what is their actual rugby experience? Just as one would not appoint the Governor of Zimbabwe’s Reserve Bank to the IMF policy committee, so too the IRB should not use 3 people without any real rugby experience to judge players’ indiscretions. The ICC has got it absolutely right by having former Test cricketers as match referees at all international matches where, if necessary, they can impose fines and suspensions. Similarly the IRB has got it absolutely wrong in the Bakkies Botha case, hence the outcry and criticism by players, coaches (including Warren Gatland) and supporters.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
#142 cab: If Saffas get sick of whingers why then are people on here whinging so much? A whinge is a whinge regardless of who it is against, the media, opposition, refs or your own bloody coach!
I get the gist of it now though. Someone from Britain or Ireland complains about something that is perceived to be unfair then it is a whinge. Someone from SA complains about something perceived unfair it isn’t classed as a whinge. Biggest load of **** I’ve ever heard!
July 5th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
#151 Thucydides:
Thing with the thinking of this, is that when Jake had his first test match against Ireland – 12 June 2004 in Bloem – Bakkies played in his 7th test, Matfield in his 9th. a Certain Fourie du Preez made his debut that same day.
Yes, we won the Tri-nations, but when we played England that year – the team had a combined cap of 72. That day also a certain Bryan Habana made his test debut. John Smit captained his 9th test.
No comparison to that time and this. Perspective people.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Pointing to the fact that the Boks won the series under de Villers isn’t – Boks won the series DESPITE him, not because of him.
With the talent the Boks have at their disposal, they should have put this Lions team to the sword. This was not a particularly strong Lions team – that should be pretty obvious Boks were even-money in the NH to pull of a 3-0 whitewash.
What I thought was interesting was the fact that a lot was made in the South African press of PdV’s selection of Pienaar, de Villers and Jacobs as a midfield when the form players (at least as far as I saw it) in Super 14 were Steyn, Olivier and Fourie.
Considering they were playing against Flutey, derided as a Super 14 reject, and Bowe who’s only a part-time centre, they looked decidedly average. Didn’t think much of Kirchner either on that performance, though his Super 14 form suggests he’s a better player. Would have helped if they’d had JP and Habana alongside them in that backline though.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
#155 jonnymain:
Kom bly bietjie hier – dan praat ons weer mamparra.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
#155 jonnymain:
Dont you know how it works here?
South Africans point out facts,its not a whinge or a complaint.Everyone else in the world are whingers and complainers with no facts what so ever,quite easy to understand really.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
#158 WilladieLeeu: My Afrikaans isn’t so good, but I don’t need to live somewhere to have an opinion. If you don’t like it that’s tough *****.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
#159 Hurricane: Well aware mate. I’m just sick and bloody tired of the double-standards that some guys have. I shouldn’t take it so seriously
July 5th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
#155 jonnymain: Winners don’t whinge china! We express our opinion. Losers on the other hand… well, you fill in the rest
July 5th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
I thought Smit ought to have got Morne Steyn to go for posts on several occasions rather than the corner . Particularly as the Boks were always under the pump , the BILs defence was outstanding and the Boks could not get their rolling maul into gear. Assumung Steyn would have kicked 100% , how many points did he leave on the field , and how could this have changed the game ? Was it 4 or 5 kickable penalties they squandered?
July 5th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
#162 Durban Poison: Nice one
July 5th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
#162 Durban Poison:
what does it mean when you say “China”?
July 5th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
#160 jonnymain:
If you don’t live here – keep your opinion to youself. Want jy maak net jou naam gat.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
>> Assumung Steyn would have kicked 100% , how many points did he leave on the field , and how could this have changed the game ? Was it 4 or 5 kickable penalties they squandered <<
True… but at the same time, the Boks have scored tries in both preceding Tests from lineout ball so it wasn’t unreasonable to assume they’d be able to do so again.
Benefit of hindsight I guess.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
#166 WilladieLeeu: I don’t normally take an immediate disliking to keo bloggers, but I’ll make an exception just for you.
Hope the Lions have a good CC season
July 5th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
#165 Hurricane: You from New Zealand ‘bro’?! China’s that huge country north of you guys that’s been financially-colonising you over the last 4 years in an attempt to get you out of your recession! Wu Lo Yuk anyone?!
July 5th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
#168 jonnymain:
Thanks, appreciated.
Me too, beat the Griffons 54 – 7 Friday.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
#166 WilladieLeeu:
Everyone is allowed an opinion Willa,even you believe it or not.Of course it dosnt mean you have to agree with anyone but free speech is what the great WWW is all about.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
#169 Durban Poison:
sorry i get mixed up with all the asians and the South Africans coming over here,my mistake as you were durban
July 5th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
#159 Hurricane:
100%…
July 5th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
#166 WilladieLeeu: Didn’t know you guys had internet in Oranje?! Keep it coming Jonnymain – the rest of us have been living in a free country since 1994 and enjoy good a few good barbs, especially as they will never change the series result!
July 5th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
#174 Durban Poison:
You meant Orania? Yeah, and our own currency.
#171 Hurricane:
I know, just get pissed off when people have no idea. But your right.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
JC, last sentence of your penultimate paragraph says it all… you only need to play decent rugby for approx. four weeks to have the mantle of World Champs…
July 5th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
#174 Durban Poison:
On more thing. Free country? In your little world.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
#176 poppa69:
Cool, isn’t it?
July 5th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
#177 WilladieLeeu:
lol
I didnt want to say anything,glad you did
July 5th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
#172 Hurricane: Never really understood why Asians come to study in NZ in the first place. What with the poor standard of education and dodgy English. As for the Saffas there, I believe most of them actually work and their taxes pay for the ‘locals’ living on the dole! Bet you’re a Saffa living on the North Shore yourself! This site usually only attracts home-sick Saffas in NZ who secretly support the Boks
July 5th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
#142 cab:
OH
now I know why Smit thought it appropriate to grace us with his Justice campaign.
Youre all the same.
Its everyone else that whinges. If only Id figured that out years ago. If in doubt, ask a Safa.
Most people might say this tongue’n'cheek. Your problem is you actually appear to believe it.
#143 mbaxman93:
No, they complained because their player was eye-gouged and your Manager directly condoned it. They complained because they lost a player to dangerous play, and this was vindicated by a banning.
The Justice embarrtassment means that the Boks are major hypocrites and, yes, DO condone foul play.
But where is the news value in that ?
July 5th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
#178 WilladieLeeu: yeah it is… seems a shame though that we can have teams liek Eng really live up to the form shown over the 4 weeks…. really makes a mockery of the title the other 202 odd weeks… luckily, SA has been a little better as defending champs then England were…
July 5th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
#182 poppa69:
I wouldn’t say that.
I don’t measure our perfomances against NH teams. It Aus and NZ. 2 from 6. Not good.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Bottom line is the simple fact that the so called superiority of these ’senior players’ is one big hogwash myth.
It is high time these senior players simply either high tail it to better pastures or re structure this so called mythological superiority that was Jake White’s illustrious band of indestructible’s.
We already have seen with clear light of day clarity that the one indestructible Schalk Burger is by no means such, he is as fallible and imperfect as every other human born and primed to play this illustrious game of domination and physicality.
The infallible senior players are all getting long in the tooth already, so if this coaching setup which is way better than White, Smal, and Coetzee by a hundred fold, do not see and recognize this right now as a shedding point then they are going to get caught big time with their pants down.
Smit is on borrowed time, so too Matfield and maybe Bakkies and Smith, JdV part of the walking wounded, as is Schalk a shadow of his former self. The only potential prospect here is to bust this fallacious mold wide apart and start again, from ground up and develop a new team, and I would already start with a new captain pretty soon.
Take it on the chin and break up this so called mythological best team in the world syndrome, it is by no means such and if we do not bite the bullet and start again right now, this 2007 team of indestructible’s will take this coach down with them as they are already showing the way how.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
#180 Durban Poison:
lol
good one.
Nope born in NZ,but i think it shows on what sort of country NZ is,unlike your country,NZ has alot of different nationalities,which is good in alot of ways.And unlike your country the people who live here from different places can actually walk on the same side of the road as everyone else,they can go to the toilet with everyone else,they dont have to be a certain race to drink at a certain bar.
So yeah there is a few good things about NZ i suppose.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
#185 Hurricane:
oh i forgot this
July 5th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Its a big fat myth all this so called talent we have at our disposal, just look at the teams that faced each other and tell me in which position our players are better than the opposition.
Whoever was the coach Jake or whoever would struggle with waning players who are out of sorts with their so called superiority, they are not superior at all.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
#174 Durban Poison: With pleasure. Actually I don’t usually have a go at Saffas, I’m half-Saffa on my wife’s side
but I’m a bit fed up with some of the self-righteous **** posted on here.
Yes the Lions players were bad losers, especially after Pretoria and it was downright embarrassing for the likes of me to have to read and it gave you plenty of ammunition to label them as whingers etc. The series is over thankfully but nobody could deny that the actual rugby was highly entertaining and a lot closer than most people thought it would be.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
#184 skopskiet:
I agree 100%.
Rather let these borrowed time players play under a decent coach and win the Super 14 again.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
#183 WilladieLeeu: wasnt detracting from the fact you guys won, best team at the tournament and so deserved their victory… hats off to them…
Ive said it all along on here, it gets shot down because it appears I have sour grapes we havent won one since 87 (even that one gets shot down), but to me, it isnt a true test of rugby supremacy… I think it would be much better using the four years, top ten ranked nations play each other in a 3 test series, so roughly 6 tests a year, differing teams each year… top four ranked teams after the four years (or when everyone has played everyone else, alternate tours next 4 years so everyone gets a turn at home ground advantage)
these could be semi final series, best of 3… winners meet in a best of 3 final series and are crowned world champs…
teams ranked 11 to 20 play in their own series, with top two teams advancing to top league, bottom two drop to second league and so on…
July 5th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
#184 skopskiet:
Yes, the senior players are not what they were in 2007, but there is no denying that their experience pulled us through in Pretoria.
What concrens me about the coaching set up us that on Monday Zane practises with the Bulls and on Saterday he started for the Boks! What does that say about our planning?
July 5th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
#184 skopskiet:
‘Bottom line is the simple fact’ that if John Smit leaves today, PdeV will be ‘dead’ tomorrow (in rugby terms).
That is why PdeV brought him back from France (at all costs).
Fact, bottom line.
John should go back to playing hooker again, with Bissy as #2 ( another ‘fact’, by the way).
July 5th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
#187 skopskiet: Best scrum-half in the world, best lock pairing in the world. Habana is arguably the best winger in the world, Spies would be my pick in a world XV at No.8. Stop being so negative, the Boks are LOADED with talent.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
#177 WilladieLeeu:
Weet nie hoe lank jy al op keo is nie, maar net ingeval jy nie weet nie, daai ou is een mooosa rassistiese doOs.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
#191 LondonBul:
Junior players pulled us throughin Pretoria, no senior players did, senior player Schalk let the side down, Danie Roussouw got concussed by a center and Brussow and M.Steyn saved the day – with Jacque Fourie who got the pass from Brussow to go over, a senior player like Schalk or Smith would have backed himself and gone for the bust through on his own and got turned over like we saw yesterday.
It is time to get the senior players out, everybody reckons BArny Smit is the foundation of the team, well that is what he was for White, if PdV wants to go down the tubes he hangs onto John Smit and Victor Matfield for dear life then he is history.
If he wants to show he is a proper coach he gets shot of dead wood and starts again with proper props and proper locks to back up the guys who are losing it fast.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
#193 jonnymain:
Right on the button Jonno, spot on….now let’s have a wee dram on that I say!
July 5th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
#180 Durban Poison:
actually this posts has said a bit about you Durban.
You said “Never really understood why Asians COME to study in NZ”.hmmm not GO to NZ.
Another bit of your post ” Bet you’re a Saffa living on the North Shore yourself”.
You seem to know a bit about NZ.
And this “, I believe most of them actually work and their taxes pay for the ‘locals’ living on the dole!”
The dole…………hmmmm are you on the Dole in NZ?
July 5th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
#184 skopskiet:
you’re right
they
are
no best team
in the world
they were
however
but
snorre’s
lack of brains
took care
of that
July 5th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
#196 Pietman: Would be lovely if it were possible
July 5th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Anyway i am off to bed,its late here in NZ as Durban knows.
I have work tomorrow,unlike Durban
Cyas all
July 5th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
#185 Hurricane: Touché!
July 5th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
#197 Hurricane:
Well spotted!
I also have a notion he is hanging about in your part of the world.
******* of note that oke, btw.
Ignore mate.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
#200 Hurricane:
Cheers, see you in the TriNations again!
July 5th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
#195 skopskiet: I agree that Morne had a moerse game, but Habanna’s try was set up by FdP. And yes, Brussow should be in any Bok squad.
I know you hate Jake White, but the difference between him and Strueli was that Strueli always searched for the magical players that could win a game for the Boks, while Jake believed in building a team.
Heynicke Meyer did the same at the Bulls and Clive Woodward did the same for England. Look what they achieved. Their is many more examples.
To start chopping and changing the team is not the sulotion, some senior players will go, like perhaps Schalk, but wholesale chamges will be suicide.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
#156 WilladieLeeu:
I agree that there are crucial differences between 2004 and 2009, and my point was certainly not that White was a bad coach. On the contrary, I think he did a great job, given the dismal state of SA rugby when he took over. But when people now complain about the fact that the Boks did not win the Lions series 3-0, preferably by at least 20 points per game, it is not clear to me whatsoever why anyone should think that this is a realistic expectation. At no point during the last decade or so were the Boks consistently 20+ points better than the top Northern hemisphere teams. (Let’s not even mention SA’s dismal record in the 3N… be that under White or De Villiers.) It is nice to think that the current crop of players are so “talented” that they _ought_ to be whipping everyone by record margins, but when have they actually managed to do this on a regular basis?
July 5th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
#190 poppa69:
There’s no denying that NZ is the supreme rugby side in the world, and who-ever denies that has blinkers.
Jake’s first two years when he publically said that he would use to find his core of players that can compete with Aus and NZ, NZ and SA played 4 times – each winning twice. Sa played Aus 6 times and SA won 4 of those.
We were competetive until 2006 when Jake put all his attention on the World Cup to build depth. Giving fringe players the oppertunity to play themselves into contention. Also injuries to Bakkies and Schalk didn’t help either.
Last year with a settled squad and the only goal was the Tr-nations – we should have achieved Jake’s success of 2004 and 2005. But only 2 out of 6.
NZ dominated once again. But I agree with your concept of a World Cup tournament.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
#39 sharks_lover: one good thing about the yesterday’s game, there are no longer any questions about the best center pairing, JDV and Adi are the best for the job
July 5th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
#188 jonnymain: What’s this ’six degrees’ to being South African?!
But I share your point and have mentioned it a few times on keo.co.za – apart from the Bok players and management, the average Boks fan/sheeple believed the nonsense spewed from the SA rugby media of an inferior Lions team and easy series whitewash. The truth is way different of course and we’ve been served up some awesome rugby – I have never watched as tense a rugby match as the 2nd Test since our 1995 RWC win. Thanks to the Boks and Lions for a fantastic series!
July 5th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Amyway, the series is in the bag.
Thx PdeV and the Boks.
You did well, those BIL’s gave us a run for the money, they were no easy beats.
But now we have to move on to bigger things, the TriNations!
Catch you ruggaluvvas tomorrow, cheers all.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
#193 jonnymain:
Best scrum half in the world another fat myth, nothing of the sort, hopelessly out played by Phillips on Saturday, no such luck best scrum half in the world.
Our star performers are who
Spies is no classic No.8, Vermeulen far better for a true No.8, Spies fine as a running ball carrier in broken play but is awol in tight close encounters, same or far worse is Kankowski,
Habana is a great talent, so too JPP, F.Steyn can settle down and be a first class full back if left to develop there, so too Pienaar at 10. M.Steyn is a good solid dependable backup to Pienaar who should be our play making pivot.
Centers are a quandary because we don’t know our best pairing, JdV and Jacobs still much better then the 2 on display yesterday but neither covered in glory, Fourie is class but needs a play maker inside of him.
Props we got none, we need to draft in Kruger and Heinke immediately, Hooker Bissie is hot and cold, Smit is history. Need to bring in Liebenberg and play Chili off bench.
Locks we need youth to back up Matfield and Botha not a useless carrot like Muller or Roussouw, Sykes and Steenkamp or Wentzel or Bekker and Fondse or somebody got to start getting up to international conditioning. Matfield and Burger will soon fade as they are doing already.
Flanks, Brussow, Potgieter, Deysel, Smith, Stegmann
8th Man, Vermeulen, Spies, Potgieter
Bust up this myth of superiority now, because it is nothing of the sort.
Start again and develop a new team with players ready for the big time in less than 2 years or go down the plughole hanging onto obsolete superiority mythology.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
#185 Hurricane: Really mate? From my memory and from my sister’s first hand account in Kiwi land all Maori are equal then then there is everyone else.
Pakeha’s can’t fish without a license, but Maori can. Can’t colect shellfish, but Maori can. Maori just recieved the last of a 100 million dollar payment for forests which were never even there before.
To say NZ is not racist is to wear massive blinkers. Yours is the only country left in the world that has a national representative team based on race. The NZ Maoris, racism is racism, whether you like it or not.
Bought the kiwi T-shirt, lived there for ages and there are some great things about the place, but it ain’t perfect.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
#207 XhosaKid: Adi and JdV played behind a more dominant pack.
JF and Wynand did not have the best games, but I think they would have been much better in Pretoria. Wynand should have played of the bench and JF and JdV should have started.
Jacobs is not bad – he had a good year last year, but IMO he is 4th best in SA.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
#197 Hurricane: Afraid to disappoint you Hurricane. I’m unashamedly South African. My sister however did live on the North Shore for a few years, until she abandoned ship/recession and moved to more prosperous shores i.e. Australia. Sleep well fella – 3am there already.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
#205 Thucydides:
Agreed.
#194 Pietman:
Dankie, sal hom dan maar net ignoreer.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
#210 skopskiet: Not a bad summation. I know you don’t rate Kanko and I don’t rate Spies for the same reasons. Still think Chilli is not up to it YET. Give him a few years.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
#155 jonnymain:
precisely correct, now you have it.
on a more serious note, if you want to see the difference between a whinger and not, look no further than the 3 post-match interviews of John Smit vs Paul O’Connel.
This will be remembered as the greatest bunch of whinging Lions ever to tour.
They will go down in folklore as magnificent bitchers.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
these twats starting with their bullsh’t ideological mayhem **** again regarding race and culture, who is more equal than who, pakeha-maoari, zulu-xhosa-pink-white-blue-green-boer-brit, just f’off man and go spew it elsewhere.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
#202 Pietman: Where is the love?! You sound like one of those bitter Saffas, who didn’t make the most out of your advantaged status during apartheid. Old man worked for Spoornet?
July 5th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
#212 LondonBul:
Olivier skipped JF every single time. He turned over at least 6 balls at rucks. He brought himself into the game on defense.
But yeah, JDV and Fourie is our best centre pairing.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
#211 goyougoodthing2:
You don’t need a licence to sea fish or collect shellfish if its for recreational purposes.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
#209 Pietman:
and what is your verdict on the bitching?
have u ever seen a greater team of touring bitchers (not *******)?
July 5th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
#216 cab:
No that was BOD and Woodward in 05′.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
#217 skopskiet: That’s the way it plays out there mate.
Mind you the Maori did have the wheel, a bit more advanced than you lot were what what!
July 5th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
#222 NZINCHINA:
yes they were a spectacular bitching outfit, no doubt, but this side had a few other legends of the bitching game.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
#220 NZINCHINA: On a commercial scale you need to be Maori don’t you? And there are great tracts of sea where you cannot fish or collect if you are Pakeha. South West coast of the North Island, just past Otaki…
July 5th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
#219 WilladieLeeu: JDV is a show pony. Just like Bekker.
Our wings were shown up yesterday for what they are – not good enough. We have plenty better than them.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
#216 cab: Yes they will sadly and that hurts.
Please don’t compare Smit to O’Connell. Despite the obvious fact that Smit is a far more accomplished captain and leader than POC, it is always going to be easy to be gracious in victory (2 times) and defeat once (only after the series was already won!)
July 5th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
#206 WilladieLeeu: Jake certainly did find a great nucleus, and seems his attention to the WC was, in hindsight, correct…
Agree with the sentiment on bakkies and Schalk, was like us losing carter in the 1/4 final then Evans on top of that… think Bakkies importance was plain for all to see in the 3rd test against the lions…
I see last years 3Ns as PDV’s baptism, and honestly believe he learnt from the experience… he also IMO has an eye to the World Cup, with only 2 years till its here, he has to try new blood and talent so he knows who is capable and who isnt…
and lets face it, a dead test in an already won rubber, against a tough opposition, is an ideal situation to see who is up to the task… start of the 3Ns is definitely NOT the place to try new players, and he doesnt have too many other chances, only EOYT and next years June tests…
so may as well try to identify who has it (ala brussouw) and who doesnt (Nokwe, at this stage)… so therefore he gathers more info on who his top 30 players in the country are… IMO
July 5th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
#216 cab:
still whinging about all the whinging?
July 5th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
#224 cab:
Ha ha what a shambles mate its amazing how these things turn into a media circus, the average guy just wants the match and reasonably priced tickets, I wouldn’t have thought that was too much to ask for.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
#227 jonnymain:
johnnymain, you are a gentleman and as such i do not wish to inflict my propaganda rhetoric on your ears, just think of me as goebells.
#229 Thucydides:
yes, its called constructive criticism of the whinging.
PS you comment above was spot on about the SA folk expectations being too high.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
#230 NZINCHINA:
well thats another thing to whinge about, the prices were crazy for the average saffa worked out to about 400 kiwi dollars.
daylight frikkin robbery.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
#221 cab:
Nope, must say, I haven’t.
Especially disappointed in the Irish lads (O’Gara and BOD).
As you know, I got to know some of the ‘74 Lions tour well, and we always had some beers and steaks around the fire afterwards, even though they and our boys went flat out on the pitch.
But afterwards, no rugby talk until the next game.
Players didn’t do press interviews way back then, too hung-over from the night before, I guess!
And Syd Millar and Alun Thomas ran that team with an iron fist, the players kept shut.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Jon Cardinelli throws out rotten meat
And the hyenas come scampering in from all directions
Some frothing at the mouth
Deluded others chuckling at the supposed well presented feast on offer
Time for Keo to do himself a favour
And offer contractual employment to the likes of: Mishwini, PissAnt, Ziyaad, SodaJoe, etc to name a few
Will improve the content on offer immeasurably
July 5th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
#228 poppa69:
Yup, true.
I serioulsy cannot look to this years Tri-nations positively. We played 70 minutes of good rugby out of 240 minutes.
Against Aus and NZ that will be a major disaster. More than half of this side can pay in the 2011 World Cup, so there’s no real building. We have depth, but not making 10 changes.
He has everything he wants, the players…and also he has the final say in team selection – something White never had.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
#225 goyougoodthing2:
Mate your probably right, I get a few crays on tank and the odd snapper and I’m happy so I don’t really care what the bro’s are doing.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
#234 saffa_guy: Do you know who pIssant is?
July 5th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
#233 Pietman:
uh hah, there we go, from the horse’s mouth, i rest my case.
one wonders if both sets of the modern players even had a few beers off the park, i sensed much dislike among the squads…poor effort allround.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
#223 goyougoodthing2:
which ‘lot’ is that ‘what what’?
July 5th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
#232 cab:
I paid NZ$70O for the Eden park test in 05′, it was called a hospitality pass, Heineken, hamburgers, a 30 second “speech” from Lomu and an uncovered seat in the rain, I won’t be going back in 17′.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
#236 NZINCHINA: For sure, that wasn’t my point, Hurricane just spouting godzone, we all have good and bad points in our countries, he was just taking it a bit far. Kiwiland is a great picture, but it ain’t perfect either.
Tell me where is I will call you a liar LOL.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
#237 goyougoodthing2:
Yep
July 5th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
#240 NZINCHINA:
holy ****, that is committment, the lomu speech must have been something, haha…yeah we paid 1000 euros to go to RWC final, worth every penny mind.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
#239 skopskiet: Just puling your chain Skop. You know that about me by now surely.
he he he.
Good summation earlier BTW. We are in short supply of decent locks moving forward. Muller is a nice guy, but not international player material.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
#240 NZINCHINA: I see NZs hospitality hasn’t quite reached Twickers standards then!
Hamburgers and Heineken FFS!!?
July 5th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
#235 WilladieLeeu:
show me this so called ‘depth’ where, if we had so much ‘depth’ we would not have been drilled into the turf yesterday which started up front, where is all this mythological ‘epth’ I’d like to see it right now.
Only depth we have is in our young players coming through, the so called ‘depth’ in the senior players is slowly starting to prove to be one fat big myth altogether.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
#241 goyougoodthing2:
Far from perfect, a lot of people in denial as to the social state of affairs, still home though and very few better places to live in the world.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
#242 saffa_guy:
Hence the use of the term “likes”
Rational and very knowleagable arguments
Not this endless sensationlist tripe of the past week
July 5th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
#243 cab: 1000 Euros? holy moly that puts things in perspective.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
#243 cab:
Yer don’t think he’s going to join Clinton on the world speaking circuit.
#245 jonnymain:
Mate the burgers were cold lol
July 5th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
#235 WilladieLeeu: still very much the unknown for me…
ABs unfortunately have looked way off the boil, some quality coming back so may help, but not having played for a while not sure how much they will lift the side..
Aust have looked good, but Italy is not the same kettle of fish, and France never ever win after playing and beating the ABs… a wierd by product, I like to call it karma lol
SA, although having been seriously disrupted in the 3rd test, have had the toughest preparation of the 3, and I think this alone stands them in good stead…think PDV will start with the team from the first test… only making changes if they are forced through injury or suspension…
July 5th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
#249 goyougoodthing2:
yeah couple more tickets and i could’ve bought a farm backhome.
probably a waste of money should have gone to charity or something.
followed the boks around france for every single game so had to complete the set.
great night tho..
July 5th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
#246 skopskiet:
When you have two/three injuries we have depth. But making 10 changes to take on the B&I Lions is just madness.
No team in the world can do that, hence New Zealand losing to France in the first test. They had 8 injuries to their top players.
Depth isn’t fielding two squads as Graham Henry said, it’s when you have injuries you can replace them with players that can fill that void. But not 10 at the same time.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
#247 NZINCHINA: kiwis are reasonable in general. I think you’ll take a while to come back form the socialist lesbian PM, but it’ll be right mate.
One thing is for sure, kiwis wouldn’t stand for this nonsense the Boks are going through if it were the ABs. They’d be demanding, and getting answers to questions. Tough questions such as who is running the ship, which players don’t listen to the coach and who is feeding the media.
Think it’s going to be a shock when it comes out eventually here.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
#251 poppa69:
Currie Cup and Tri-nations at the same time. Life is good. But good luck with the 3N. Gonna be a cracker.
Why isn’t Stephen Brett in the squad? I rate that kid. He stepped in for Carter for the Crusaders.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
#44 sharks_lover: Face it people PdV is a complete idiot! We just scraped through the first two tests and got our arse handed to us yesterday – we were lucky to have one this Lions series. We’ve not looked convincing in the slightest. To top it off, PdV’s comments have made us look a complete laughing stock and he has tarnished the reputation of SA rugby for good. He needs to be fired on that basis alone for those ridiculous comments!
I’m not looking forward to this year’s Tri-Nations. I think its going to be one of the worst on record. I can see the Bok team imploding by the end of the year. We’re going to lose a lot of our senior players, Habana included. Yesterday’s hammering is a start of things to come.
The ABs are going to tear us a new a$$hole on the 25th! Expect another 19-0. Even skoppie isn’t convinced by Snor anymore. I for one want to see him fired for making us a laughing stock around the world!
July 5th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
#253 WilladieLeeu: one of the few good things Henry has ever said or done… this from a man who didnt know who his form winger of the world cup was (howlett), and decided top play Carter when injured, when he had a more then able replacement to call on in the form of Evans… then lets him leave the country, which has come back to bite us big time…
July 5th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
#234 saffa_guy:
Its the ‘winning ways’ undercover agenda, you can be sure who is behind all this propaganda stunt to get the rug pulled from under the national coach’s feet, there are secret meetings held in secret corridors by the 3rd force of the undercover agenda as we speak, and who is really pulling the strings behind this cloak and dagger little coup de grace we have going here, as Rodriguez would so eloquently ask, ‘I wonder’..?
July 5th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
#231 cab:
Well, if “constructive criticism” can cure all the whinging, then I’m all for it.
I hope it cures not only the Lions’ supporters, but also the Bok fans… personally, I find the tendency around here to ***** about unfair travel schedules, biased refs (etc etc ad infinitum) at least as tedious as the Lions’ appalling lack of sportsmanship.
Glad to hear we agree that SA supporters tend to have unrealistic expectations. Might explain why they (also) tend to be whingers … given the expectations, the results cannot be anything but a series of disappointments.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
#257 poppa69: Ypu guys should have gone with Robbie Deans as AB coach. I can’t believe the NZRU didn’t appoint him.
#256 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: I think you are right – I hope you are wrong, but it looks like we are back to the dark days of Strueli.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
#180 Durban Poison: Like Tackler!!
July 5th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
#255 WilladieLeeu: I agree, and think he would be a much better option then Donald…
think it is going to be a cracker series myself…
July 5th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
#258 skopskiet: I think you’ll find the scariest part about this hidden agenda is that the main antagonist is the coach himself.
It’s like being a double agent, but even more tricky than that. A schitzo Suicide Bomber…
July 5th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Whether you win a test by a point or ten you win the match. The Boks won the series because in two games they scored more points than us. In the third we scored more points so won the match, but the war was won by the Boks. No gripes – no excuses – no blaming our coaches or blaming the refs. Good luck in Tri-Nations, not going to be easy.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
#259 Thucydides: talk to us kiwis about unrealistic expectations, from supporters to world press …our team developed an uncomplimentary tag that way lol
#260 LondonBul: me neither, was definitely touting for him… GH asked to be judged on his WC effort, and we had our worst EVER result… so to me he must have some powerful friends…
but after every world cup, we have fired the coach and repeated the mistakes… so in a way, as with the loss to France this year, it may stand us in good stead come 11… it may not either, but trying to be positive…
July 5th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
#254 goyougoodthing2:
She was farken terrible, speaking of tickets prices was fortunate to be able to attend the WC final in 87′ as a school boy – terrace seat NZ$16 from memory back then most people could afford to go to the big games. Your situation will always be different so many factions in fighting but they have just won a series against the Lions so are tracking pretty well I would have thought, if we take one of you in SA this year i’ll be happy.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
#263 goyougoodthing2: Are you sitting on your Nuts.You sound in pain.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
#253 WilladieLeeu:
we imploded in the front row for starters, then at second row and in line outs, and at the breakdown with our top proponents of loose play, Brussow, Smith and Kankowski who to most pundits around here is as good or better than Spies.
Our so called ‘depth’ then extended into half back where we got taken to the cleaners, Phillips and Jones out playing FdP and Steyn, onto the famous best center pairing in the country, WO and Fourie who got shown up by Fluti and Bowe.
Wings are not even debatable and our second best FB who everyone was crying to be included from the beginning because he was the stalwart along with FdP, M.Steyn, and WO as the great Bloe Bulls contingent who would have walked this Lions side.
Everybody is living in la la delusion land over here, including this crouching bending over idiot who cries ‘fire the coach’ from over in his hidy hole in the far reaches under Mother Hen Her Majesty’s empire. Jake’s illustrious super duper infallible team is no more, a big fat inconsequential MYTH. Jake and Eddy Jones just as they capitulated with the greatest collection of players they could muster for the Barbarians against Australia, would not have beaten this Lions team with their so called fading fast ‘depth’ of WC 2007 players.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
#265 poppa69: I think the problem with ABs in RWCs is that they demolish almost everybody before them and then go in to confident in World Cups. So the defaet against France might be a blessing in diguise for you.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
#268 skopskiet: Amen.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
#269 LondonBul: Im thinking along the same lines… but the expectation and pressure, especially being at home, may IMO make this the toughest one of the lot for us to win…
and with players like Brussouw and potgeiter making claims, think you guys are going to be awfully difficult to beat… I believe by that time Brussouw may well be thought of in the terms most think of G Smith and McCaw, definitely has that potential…
just when loosie play seems to be reaching its nadir, along come players like Brussouw who keep raising the bar…
July 5th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
#265 poppa69:
Even so, the All Blacks surely comes much closer to living up to those expectations (if we ignore that minor thing called the World Cup, of course … but I promise to shut up about that if you don’t mention SA’s record in the 3N, S14, and End of Year tours:-).
July 5th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
#269 LondonBul: Henry need to coach a domino team.AB coach is wiff de aussies.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
#268 skopskiet: Is jy gesuip, PDV is besig om hierdie span op te neuk. Jy redeneer soos aap. Kom ons wag vir die 3N, dan kan ek vir jou se “I told you so”
July 5th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
#268 skopskiet:
Don’t agree with you on everything.
But do agree with you on the front row and locks. We have nothing of international quality as back-up there.
We have so many loose forwards in this country – might as well have a few of them turn to lock. Alberts from the Lions an example.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
#271 poppa69: Yes, I think Brussow will be by a long shot the best fetcher in World Rugby in about a year from now.
Potgieter is also pretty good. But rugby is a team sport – throwing a number of talated individuals together does not a make a sucsesful rugby team….I am very concerned about our standard of coaching.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
#274 bok_bal: Hoe Redeneer n Aap,bokbal? Jy Klink soos n ************* so jy behoort seker te Weet n aap klink nie So Logies nie.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
#272 Thucydides: done deal… lol
us kiwis have always wanted SA to be strong, we need you guys to be strong, as we measure ourselves primarily against you guys… some will say the Bledisloe is the biggest deal nowadays, but they are the younger generation and are not fully aware of the tradition and history associated with NZ/SA clashes…
SA remains the old enemy in rugby terms, always have, always will….
July 5th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
#277 namakwaland: Redeneer soos jy twakkie, net soos jy……
July 5th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
#274 bok_bal: By ************* bedoel ek jy Beledig sonder om te Staaf.n Karaktertrek vannie *************.Jy klink soos Jon Cardinelli.
July 5th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
#276 LondonBul: I think Potgeiter had an absolutely outstanding s14… was consistently getting through the line, always linking superbly and his support play was excellent…
Brussouw, if he continues to improve and stays injury free, will be held one day IMO alongside names such as M Jones and R McCaw, those that redefined the ideal of loosie play…
always a pleasure to watch someone live up to their potential, regardless of what country they come from…
July 5th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
#279 Bul-a-Bhloo: Dit IS n Kompliment wat ek Groot waardeer.Baie dankie.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
#281 poppa69: Yes, that is the nice thing about rugby – you always respect a good player, irrespective of where he comes from.
We have good Loosies in SA – but props and locks are becoming a huge problem. We are very thin there…
July 5th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
#264 Irish Devil:
very nice of you irish and same to you in the 6N
July 5th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
#281 poppa69: I think theres too much provincialism when it comes to the Boks… seems most want players from their union there, rather then the most capable.. whereas IMO in NZ, generally the best man for the job is selected… and from schoolboy to provincial to S14 sides, everything feeds into the ABs, from my observations this is not the same as SA, though correct me if Im wrong…
July 5th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Waars bokbal? Innie pampoenland?
July 5th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
#274 bok_bal:
net soos ons groot prestasie in di 3N in 2006 en 2007 – Jake het die 2 jare ‘06 en ‘07 gespeel 10 gewen 3 – 30% success, en intussen was daar n 0-49 en n 26-45 (by Loftus nogal) teen Australia en NZ
die mense hier is koploos, hulle dink die span moet net op die veld draf en dan is hulle onmiddelik wenners, niks van die soort, die WB was teen Tonga, Fiji, Argentina en Engeland geeis, nemand hoer as 6de rang, en net daarna het Jake verloor teen Wallis op Cardiff wie nie eers die quart eindronde gehaal het. Die gedagtes hier is ongelooflik, die span is glad nie a wereld oorheersende span wieookal die coach sal wees.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
#285 poppa69:
It’s’ true, but I think where that comes in is with the Currie Cup. South Africans love the Currie Cup. It’s war for us more than any other country in the world.
This only proved when we refused to put aside the Currie Cup with the Super 15 extension – whereas NZ and AUS had no quibble.
But it’s true. It used to be much worse – believe me!
July 5th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
#283 LondonBul: yep… just as we are short on halfbacks, no. 10s, also our locking stocks are not flash either, and in Afoa and Tialata we have the NZ equivalent of donut dunning and the Aussie powderpuff scrum of a few years ago…
seriously hoping crockett, franks and the two from the highlanders really start to improve… or Haymen decides to be homesick, but needs to be back this year…
July 5th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
#287 skopskiet:
Skoppie, moet nou nie kak praat nie. Ons het vir Wallis gebliksem. Gan kyk bietjie.
Ons het teen die Barbarians verloor met Jake wat 12 veranderings aan die span gemaak het. Soos gister.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
#288 WilladieLeeu:
I think that also had a lot to do with TV rights that had already been signed in SA for the Currie cup.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
#288 WilladieLeeu: appreciate that with the CC… we used to have the same sort of pride in NZ with the NPC, but that has been destroyed by short sighted administrators and the almighty dollar chasers…
rugby is losing its soul!
July 5th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
#279 Bul-a-Bhloo: Hy is vannie Min hier rond van wie ek enigeIets kan Leer van Wat ek Nodig het.Vir Wat is jy Hier.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
#291 NZINCHINA:
Maybe, but the biggest crowd attendace in SA (including internationals) was a Currie Cup final between the Bulls and the Cheetahs. We are fanatical about the Currie Cup. This is what SA rugby is all about.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
#291 NZINCHINA: Yes and no. The tradition and strength of the Currie Cup is known to be vitally important to Sa rugby.
Hope the kiwis realise this about the NPC or Air NZ cup now… TJ mentioned it the other night on re-union, that perhaps the kiwis should take a leaf out of the SAffas book on the importance of the respective championships
July 5th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
#292 poppa69:
at least you only have money issues. We have money, politics and transformation.
But I love this game.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
#275 WilladieLeeu:
Alberts and Juan Smith could stand in at 2nd row quite comfortably which would give space to our true back row proponents like Brussow, Potgieter and Vermeulen to manage the loose play with Spies off bench.
This is how I would run the greater squad team going forward from now almost immediately
FB – F.Steyn / Kirchner
Wings – Habana / Jpp / Basson / Fourie
Centers – JdV / Jacobs / Fourie / WO
FH – Pienaar / M.Steyn
SH – FdP / Adams / Hougard / Vermaak
8th Man – Vermeulen / Spies / Potgieter
Flanks – Brussow / Smith / Potgieter / Deysel / (Stegman)
Locks – Matfield / Botha / Bekker / Sykes / Steenkamp (Alberts / Smith)
Props – VdMerwe / Kruger / Beast / Smit / Steenkamp
Hookers – du Plessis / Liebenberg / Chili / Kuun
Captain for now J.Smith – future D.Potgieter
July 5th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
#297 skopskiet: i love it Skop, your own agenda showing through with your selections etc.
Hating everything to do with Jake I see.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
#290 WilladieLeeu:
Kyk die prestasie op 2007 na die wereldbeker op Millenium Stadum, ons het teen Wallis verloor, Pienaar het 10 gespeel, ons het verloor, ek sal dit gaan kry vir jou en die telling hier opsit.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
#297 skopskiet:
Not bad, experience and youth. Think mostly spot-on.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
#295 goyougoodthing2: some of us do, but we have a puppet for a leader in the NZRU… unfortunately
#296 WilladieLeeu: we have the old north vs south politics, but granted probably no where near as intrusive as it is in SA…
think we all love it, shame the people in charge are never in touch with the grass roots of the game, us supporters…
July 5th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
should be a helluva 3n, pity about schalk he does make a difference, i dont think the strongest lions or bok side played each other, but then again i ainst The Maestro.
kiwis maybe a little weaker but will come out to SA to prove a point after their slip-up to France, and the ozzies have prob the strongest squad in years, they are looking very hot indeed, could be a moerse series. ours okes are going to be buggered after S14 final, Lions and this 3N.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
#298 goyougoodthing2: Talking making Smith Captain… he’s not even playing very well
July 5th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
#299 skopskiet:
Ons het 34 – 12 gewen op Cardiff. Jy dink an die Barbarian game met Ruan.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
‘weaker than usual’, but kiwis never weak against SA.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
#290 WilladieLeeu:
nee jammer jy’s reg – ons het Wallis oorheers daai game en teen die Barbarians in 2008 verloor
July 5th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
#301 poppa69: So do we in Hoskins. Rugby is in a sad state it seems. Not cool
July 5th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
#295 goyougoodthing2:
That model rightly or wrongly just doesn’t work in NZ anymore S14 pays the bills so its the priority, small country not enough cash to go around – in a perfect world Eden park would be full for every NPC game.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
#302 cab: agreed Cab, think Aussie are the real danger, said last year it would take Deans at least a year, prob 2 to get them to be an extremely competitive unit, but he is doing it quicker then I thought..
and think of next year, S15, much longer season… players are going to burn out in 5 years, instead of 8-10…
July 5th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
#287 skopskiet: Ek verstaan die jou WB redenasie nie. So wat jy probeer se is dat nz, aus en die res nie deelgeneem het nie. Het hulle dan nie verloor teen die spanne wat die bokke gewen het nie. Snaaks. Ek onthou hoe ons Wallis (6 nasie champs) behoorlik gewen het.
Jou uitlatings staaf net my punt. Pdv supporters weet net so min soos hy. Doen jou huiswerk voor jy jou mond oopmaak.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
#307 goyougoodthing2: yep… it is sad, because it is such a great game..
July 5th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
#309 poppa69:
yeah Deans is class, but getting some decent tight 5 players cming through, Moore is up there with Bismark and Hore/MEaluma now, Benn Robinson looks a bit rolly polly but arguably the best scrummung prop in S14 and got some big young locks coming through.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
#306 skopskiet:
I just hope we do it this year. We need to gain momentum for 2011. If we have a bad 3N then is doens’t bode well for WC.
Less than 2 years.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
#312 cab: yep, been impressed by Robinson… aussie always produces quality backs, its there forwards that have let them down previously (obviously not in the Eales era though, probably their greatest pack of all time)… Deans will have them recycling ball and playing with the cohesion of the Crusaders, if not this year, prob next year and definitely for the WC…
July 5th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
#279 Bul-a-Bhloo: Ek kan Verstaan hoe jy dink Sedert jy Grootgemaak is deur die Engelse.Jy het Alles wat jy Is van hulle Ontvang,maakie saak of hulle vir jou geLieg het nie.Begin by 1910 to n paar Werfbobbejane tesame met die ingelse die Swart,Bruin en Witmense uitVerkoop het.Van toe af het Hulle beheer oor jou Stuitjie gehad.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
#298 goyougoodthing2:
Smit is blowing hard at 3 Sheridan drilled him and Smit won’t cut it much longer in the front row, he’s hanging in because coaches need him as the talisman captain.
I wouldn’t hang onto Smit or Matfield for all that much longer, play best man for the position and if Matfield is best 5 then play him, if Smit is best 3 then play him, but just to hang onto either one because of captaincy doesn’t cut it for me.
J. Smith I think is a fine captain that puts his body on line every single game, and leads from the front. He could well play in the 2nd row and bring in younger loosies who are more proficient in the modern faster game, this is where Schalk and others have fallen off the wagon, they cannot compete in a game that has speeded up as much as it his done in the last 2 years.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
#312 cab: can you imagine the lynching in NZ if Deans wins the WC with the Wallabies ??
July 5th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
#304 WilladieLeeu:
Ek dink Ruan het 10 gespeel teen Wallis in 2007, F.Steyn het 10 gespeel teen Baabaas en die hele span se pogings opgevok self alleen.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
#317 poppa69:
lol, well the rumblings have started again with Henry and France.
Always wondered how you kiwis recycle the thing so quickly, its like an artform in nz.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
#278 poppa69:
Likewise, I grew up believing that it is against the All Blacks that the real worth of a Springbok team is measured. I’d still rate a series win over NZ in NZ as a much bigger achievement than, say, winning a World Cup, or any other yardstick I can think of. But genuine tours seem to be a thing of the past (the Lions being an exception, which is one of the reasons why I still like the Lions concept), and every test played in between World Cups is apparently only a matter of “building” for the next World Cup, nowadays. I still think a team that can consistently beat most challengers over the long run provides a better yardstick. If the current bunch of SA players begin to whip NZ on a regular basis, I might start buying all the talk that they are exceptionally “talented”. Until then, they’re just the guys who come last in the 3N every year.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
#318 skopskiet:
O ja, wie kan dit vergeet. Shame, die outjie het sy naam gat gemaak daai dag. Maar moet se hy lyk goed op heelagter.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
#313 WilladieLeeu:
They have to start thinking out of the narrow minded box NOW, if they want to progress they must forget about the aging team of 2007 and bring in fresh potential right now, especially at loose forward.
We on the right track but some big decisions have to be made soon about players who play only on prestige and reputation.
If the senior players are not pulling 100% weight, like Matfield didn’t on Saturday (Muller a total diabolical disgrace, Kanko not much better) then get new blood in and fast.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
#320 Thucydides:
the worst of the lot is the french nearly won 2 tests in new zealand, its frikkin unheard of…cant believe the surrender ******* nearly pulled it off, its a disgrace, something should be done, fire henry or donald ffs!
July 5th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
#319 cab: yeah… its always going to be the case, think people will only ever leave GH alone if he does the unthinkable and wins the bloody thing
emphasis is always on precision and basics, take care of those and generally the rest falls into place…
July 5th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
#321 WilladieLeeu:
Heelagter lyk my is sy posiesie, hulle moet net vashou daar en hy sal seker sy naam weer groot maak net daar.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
#308 NZINCHINA: True I know it’s a tiny place and the S14 does bring the crowds, which even then are not big. A final in South Africa is a much bigger deal than anywhere in kiwiland it seems.
But for the sake of the game, you need that NPC comp happening, otherwise you can expect to see the Bulls and Sharks compete more and more in the s14, which will make it even worse.
I hope NZRU sort out their mess and put rugby first. You don’t need full stadia to play a comp. We have s14 and at the same time the Vodacom Cup with our second teams. They don’t get much audience.
Then we have Currie Cup 1st and second division towards the end of year. Even places like Border get 3 men, an hermaphrodite and a dog to the games. But it’s not about the crowds…
July 5th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
#322 skopskiet:
The guys still has the goods. They are quality. But the big questions that needs answered is motivation.
Having won a WC, Tri-nations, Currie Cups, Super 14 and now a Lions series. What keeps you going? Are you still going to leave everything out on the field.
I dunno.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
#320 Thucydides: I miss those days, the extended tours… I enjoyed the series this year, although it has a bit of a novelty factor now (because tours are yesterdays story)… it is one of the last true remaining traditions…
and agreed, was actually so pleased France sent a decent side down this year, we have missed having decent touring teams (Aus SA dont count, see them every year and we all know they bring their best sides – 07 exception, but proven correct)… think it has contributed to the lack of crowds in NZ…
after almost 100 years, both sides have only managed 1 series win in oppositions territory…. amazing stat really..
July 5th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
#323 cab: their first win in NZ for 15 years Cab, and only won after McAllister gifted them the final score… but, glad they won this year, and having them in our pool, we may lose to them and not be out of the cup
July 5th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
#316 skopskiet: Now I hear you. I have always wondered why Smit has been played as Captain first and then 3rd rate hooker.
Always troubled me there. I do think moving him to TH is daft. If it’s to make room for Chilli then I still think it’s too early for that anyway.
Always heard how wondeful Smit was as Captain but then heard weird stories within the Sharks camp. I mean he’s not even Sharks Captain and would not be first choice Hooker or TH.
Anyway think there’s more to worry about than that. Smith though, weird choice???
July 5th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
#327 WilladieLeeu:
Its tough to put it all out there every game, rugby is at least 50% psychological as well as physical, so if they want to bring the game up to the highest standard 100% of the time, then like you say the motivation has to be kept at a very high premium, and also the conditioning in terms of mental and physical fitness has to be kept at the sharp edge throughout.
Very difficult in such a sport from week to week to keep the motivation and the momentum going to such a high intense level all the time.
That is why I advocate fresh blood, it not only injects new energy into the team it also helps to keep the old guard on their toes.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
#329 poppa69: not at all, we’re used to beating France at World Cups and otherwise and NZ have no supersized Tongan to bail them out next time. Bring it on
July 5th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
#331 skopskiet:
Head to head
Steyn vs Pienaar
Piennar has talent in buckets, not sure he has the mind. Soft. Steyn the other way around. Solid.
Tough call but I don’t know if I’d start Steyn and bench Ruan. 4 out of 6 each week is better than 6/6 and then 0/6
July 5th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
#331 skopskiet:
Think there is gonna be a huge exodus next year.
What’s even more scary is look at Frans Steyn. 22? He has a world cup medal, Currie Cup winner and a Lions series victory medal.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
#323 cab:
Ja, but then again, the frogs have long done pretty well against NZ, haven’t they … far as I recall, they actually won a test series against NZ in NZ in ‘94, and kicked them out of two world cups. (As an aside, I reckon the frogs’ second-half comeback against NZ in the ‘99 WC is still one of the best games of rugby ever played… not least because NZ had some awesome players back then.)So I’d argue that it is not just a fluke that they nearly won the 2nd test as well, this time around … seems like the previous wins gave them a psychological edge which most other teams lack when playing against the AB’s. (Somewhat like 1980s heavyweight boxers going up against Tyson … most of them lost the fight before the first punch was thrown.) Anyway, one could argue that those “surrendering *******” are the main reason why the All Blacks have such a **** WC record.
PS – Apologies to Poppa for bringing up the WC despite my earlier promise to shut up about it:-)
July 5th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
This is something to get excited about, a new Africa record in long jump, this boy has talent, world class.
‘Beijing silver medallist Khotso Mokoena soared to a new African long jump record of 8.50 metres at Saturday’s 28th Madrid track and field meeting in Spain.
And he had great back-up from middle distance runners Johan Cronje and Mbulaeni Mulaudzi who won the 1,500 and 800m events respectively.
Desite having to settle for second Mokoena had a briliant series of six jumps.
Australian, Fabrice Lapierre won the event in 8.57m but Mokoena had the extra satisfaction of beating Olympic champion, Irving Saladino, of Panama and also breaking
the 12-year-old African record of 8.46m set by Cheikh Tidane Toure of Senegal .
“I am simply ecstatic,” Mokoena’s coach, Elna de Beer, told leading SA track and field statistician Gert le Roux. “I think 8.60m is now within his reach but that is not the main aim’.
July 5th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
#332 Big Hit:
didnt expect an answer so succinct… thanks BH, brought a smile…
July 5th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
#333 goyougoodthing2:
I would start with Pienaar, in fact I advocated it before the test, I somehow had a feeling M.Steyn would get bogged down behind a retreating pack. Pienaar can alsways provide some spark, even though Steyn is far more sure footed and a better BMT head, he lacks the creativity and vision and ability to break a game open if it gets stuck in one dimensional mode.
#334 WilladieLeeu:
Then we simply have to do what the AB’s have had to do, revert to the next generation and bring them through, this is the curse of professionalism, I actually don’t like it at all. I think the money game sucks, much better in the old days when they were all amateur.
July 5th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
#335 Thucydides: no dramas at all… I was at the second test in Auckland, when the french scored what to me is still one of the very best tries I have ever had the pleasure of witnessing…
thing was in 99, in the first half, we gave the ball to (using BH,s moniker) one supersized Tongan and he destroyed them… then the second half, he seemingly had the plague and no one wanted to pass the ball to him… never understood that…
July 5th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
ok see you round some other time – time out
July 5th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
We once again need a clean up of our coaching team. It’s just not working. Sadly I expect the Boks to finish last again in this years Tri-Nations, Aus to win, NZ second. Finishing 3rd will be a blessing in disguise. Personally I would like to see Alan Solomons as Bok coach, with Rossouw for the backline, McFarland defence. Forward coach not sure. We still have 2 years, changes should happen this year.
July 5th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
ist thing i would do is get on the line to CJ VD LINDE….
if he says no….call bj….
If he says no…blood w Kruger
Move J smit back to 2….
Brussow must start
Steggmann into squad of 30…..
Serious chats to Matfield, bakkies ,J Smith and J Smit…..they either commit to 2011 or start the search for successors now….
DONT play j smith at 4 or 5….never ever plkay okes out of position at the highest level…it is a disease in our rugby and a cheap way of avoiding the tough calls!
Bissy off the bench last 30….J Smit can move to loosehead but never play him at 3 again….he doesent deserve to be treated in this way….even Os said he would never contemplate trying to play 3 !!!
Dewalt Potgieter ,Steggmann must be knocking at the door….and i am getting to the conclusion that a Duanne Vermeulen at 8 may be the answer with the speed of Spies used of the bench in last 30 min.
Our huge pressing issue is to 100% back a 10….3….6…and 15….
I am sure Pdv learnt a lot from yesterdays fiasco…never again should we have to see a bok front row so humiliated and our pack bullied like a girlie team….
July 5th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
#339 poppa69:
Far as I recall, another problem in the 99 game was that Cullen was played out of position, and did not adapt all that well, especially on defense. Pity, because Cullen was otherwise a genuinely great player.
July 5th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
#343 Thucydides: yep, you are correct… one of the most gifted runners I have seen, especially interjecting himself into the backline, and we put him at centre… crazy, then, we did the same with Mils (I think it was Mils) in 03 when Tana was injured… seems the learning wasnt learnt…
July 5th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
The series win hinged on one penalty kick,the result
of a brain **** by a Lions player.Poor chap .I am sure
he is going to have nightmares for the rest of his life.
The Boks won and the record books will for ever reflect
that,it wont reflect though that the Boks as
World champions nearly made a hell of a mess of it and in the end were saved,from embarrassment by a superb penalty kick.
Looking at the world rankings,it is clear that although
the Lions had a number of talented player,they were not
from countries dominating world rugby.
29 June 2009
1(1) NZL
2(2) RSA
3(3) AUS
4(4) IRE
5(5) FRA
6(6) ARG
7(7) ENG
8(8) WAL
9(9) FJI
10(10) SCO
July 5th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
Yes we won the series 2 1 but somehow it does not feel like a victory. In fact I feel quite depressed about the performance of our beloved Boks. This depression is further aggravated by the utterings of the coach. Further, the loss on Saturday has given the B&I Lions supporters a lot to say, not only here, but on other sites. And they are a negative, arrogant bunch! You would think they are the world champions.
Then there was the mis-management of the ticket sales. The really shocking prices. How SARU can allow there to be more touring team supporters than Bok supporters at the games and tests boggles the mind!
Hoskins, where are you allowing our rugby to go to? As a loyal supporter, I am dissatisfied! One small voice complaining but probably one amongst a million or two who feel the same.
July 5th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Is it just me or is everyone else tired of the anti-PdV articles on this site?
This site is starting to bore me, okay we know you dont like the coach so get of it already.
Lest see what ‘rugby heaven’ has to offer.
July 5th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
#344 poppa69:
For some reason, South African coaches also seem to struggle to learn that particular lesson … witness the number of positions into which players like Francois Steyn have been forced. Poor bloke is probably more confused than a Sarah Palin speech, by now.
July 5th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
#345 Brentie1: was indeed a superb penalty… I somehow find it rather ironic, that the countries that most enjoy the penalty kick in the game (considering their disapproval of the short arm free kick at ruck time, and trialled in the ELV’s), were sunk by the very same sword…
July 5th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
#346 ZA1:
I agree ZA! If things continue as they are ….. our rugby is heading for the scrap heap!
July 5th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
#346 ZA1: It isn’t as bad as you make it out to be. We didn’t play at our best, so what, at least we won.
We’ve got bigger fish to fry, the Tri-Nations is where we can put all this bulls**t to rests.
“Hope the British are watching because this is what real competition looks like”
July 5th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
#345 Brentie1: I wouldn’t place too much faith in rankings, they don’t tell the true story. Also the Lions is about taking the best players from the 4 nations, so they’re clearly a level or two above the home nations on their own (except maybe England).
A rugby writer in NZ today said these Lions would’ve hammered the 2009 ABs so take from that what you will.
July 5th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
#348 Thucydides: or Clinton with two separate cigars lol
really feel for Frans… hopefully now he will realise that FB is his natural position (not sure he knows himself to be honest).. but he is going to play in the NH isnt he?
July 5th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
#352 Big Hit: nah, INCLUDING england
July 5th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Lets all reserve judgement till after the Tri Nations shall we? We’ve won the series, lets give him a chance and see if he’s the real deal, or riding on the core of World Cup players….i prefer to be optimistic and feel he can do it!!
July 5th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
#355 Atreides: Agreed. Why are they not allowing him a chance?
July 5th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
Congrats to the Lions
July 5th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
#356 Ezee-23: Dunno…strange….SA is a weird counry sometimes….so much to be positive about, but also the “frog in the bucket” mentality is quite pervasive. I thought it was a great series and we came out on top….yesterday’s game meant little to the boks, and on top of that, I think the Lions dodn’t deserve a whitewash. What happens when 3 weeks into the Tri Nations we lose Bakkies, Smit, Habana and Steyn to injury, and no-one is there to take their places? We need to blood new players, this has been an age-old argument….I don’t remember many playes who shone in their debuts, most guys struggle, it’s an enormous overwhelming occasion. I read somewhere that most guys remember very little of that first game, so why write them off if they’re overshadowed by the moment?
July 5th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
#357 chch: For what?
July 5th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
#358 Atreides:
The margin should have meant something.
July 5th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
#359 Ezee-23:
Did you see the game?
The Lions won
July 5th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
#360 chch: Im sure thy weren’t proud of the performance, but their focus has shifted to the 3N I think, and with the series win it would be really hard to get as motivated for the dead rubber…whereas the Lions had it all to play for?
July 5th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
#360 chch: if it was against our first team yes maybe
July 5th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
#362 Atreides:
Strange. When they played the ABs the focus was to win all three. It was a Lions tour after all
July 5th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
#363 byoboy: We didn’t play their A team either.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
#363 byoboy:
Sounds like something Graham Henry would do
July 5th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
#364 chch: I agree. We did the Lions tour & history a disservice – and the exclusion of Boks from other games also devalued a fine tradition.
But you know that for us it’s all practice for the All Blacks.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
#358 Atreides: Too right. No matter what PdV does he’s always gonna get a negative reaction even though he won the series and also managed to save our players from exhaustion by not allowing them to play for their Super 14 teams.
Imagine what the reaction would have been like if we had as many injuries as the Lions. Here’s a few:
“PdV SETS BOKS BACK 5 YEARS”
“PdV TACTICS QUESTIONABLE”
“SPRINGBOKS EXHAUSTED FROM LONG LIONS SERIES”
“INJURED HABANA TO MISS TRI-NATIONS”
Now replace Habana’s name with Victor Matfield, Beast, Juan Smith, John Smit, Bakkies and any other senior player.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
#366 chch: You are the Skopskiet of New Zealand.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
#364 chch: FAct is our squad has a core of players who have ‘done it all’ and I think many of them will start moving on, we HAVE to get news guy coming through who can step up to the plate…the only way to do that is give them game time, so what better chance than in a dead ruber match? Your coaches and management have often been lambasted for the same thing, the re-building phases every team goes throug from time to time…I admire Div for taking htis step early, rather than a s a knee-jerk reaction to injury
July 5th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
#368 Ezee-23: I think I may have read those headlines already.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
#365 SodaJoe: I was just making a point about the margin difference, all in all I’m just super stoked that we won the series, especially after all their fkn winging and wining.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
#367 SodaJoe:
Apparently we gave up on the trophy against the French because it was better preparation for the tri-nations. Killing rugby
July 5th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
#366 chch: I think we won the series so the focus turned to 3N.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
#370 Atreides: Boet he has hardly made the step at all.
We have a lot of work (opportunity) for 3N building to RWC 2011.
Smit is not a TH ar$e.
Muller, Kanko, Nokwe are not good enough to be Boks. Need cover (and have cover for those positions).
July 5th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
#373 chch: and the super 15 is starting to kill our currie cup which is fkn annoying,
July 5th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
#369 SodaJoe:
ABs in different situation from Boks. As far as I know none of the Bok players make the team because they have naked pictures of the coach
July 5th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
#372 byoboy: Bud we have no excuse you know that. There’s a big difference between winning and whining. We lost big time.
Still thrilled with series win, which I think we deserved, but were quite fortunate.
Now it’s time for 3N. The toughest rugby tournament there is.
I think Piet Snor needs to replace some guys and get them ready for 2011.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
#377 chch: Please don’t tell me there are naked pictures of Grandpa Henry.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
#376 byoboy:
I thought that the new timing was what SA wanted?
Rugby in Australia struggles in Australia because of NRL. Rugby struggles in New Zealand because of the NZRU.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
#379 SodaJoe:
Ask Toeava
July 5th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
#376 byoboy: We have a bunch of incompetents running rugby, and that is before political imperatives.
O’Neill showed them up for what they were.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
#367 SodaJoe: Some traditions can’t last forever. You’re right the Tr-Nations tournament is still the ultimate test.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
#368 Ezee-23: like the titles, but if you want to “make it” on keo, wheres the alliteration…
something like
Hospitalised Habana Home from Terrible Tri-nations Tourny
or
Suffering Springboks Sever Lacklustre Lions in Spiteful Series…
still waiting for that call keo…
July 5th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
#381 chch: Seriously – you ARE the Skopskiet of New Zealand.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
#375 SodaJoe: Muller I tend to agree, Nokwe needs a couple more S14 seasons, harden up and bulk up a bit…Kanko I have to disagree. He always pulls in 2 or 3 defenders, very hard to bring down, once he gets his spark back he’ll be awesome….don’t judge him on the nowhere backline that played yesterday, no-one shone!
Was glad to see Div thinking about Spies at wing….the purists will howl, but I think he’s suited to it…more space to work with and a devastating runner when he has a bit of room. And tends to disappear in the close, tight stuff, would love him and Habana on our wings, best of both worlds
July 5th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
#369 SodaJoe:
What does the old NZ flag look like? Maybe I have one somewhere
July 5th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
#383 Ezee-23: Ezee. Fine lady. Please, the game is build on tradition and heritage. We disrespect the game when we talk like that.
I doubt that the tour would be treated with such cavalier commercial ineptitude, or administrative indifference in Australia or New Zealand.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
#378 SodaJoe: ha ha.. no man there are no excuses and i’m not giving any excuses. (i was just trying to say that if we had first choice teams from either side then the margin difference could have meant something – more – to the B&I folk, I wasn’t concerned with the margin diff coz it wasn’t our first team, just think if it had been , then we would all be crapping for 3N)
We deserved it for sure – they way we fought back in the second test was brilliant and we thoroughly deserved to win.
I can’t wait for 3N , think we got a good shot at being champs.
replace some guys, like?
July 5th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
#384 poppa69: LOL
July 5th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
2 sets all, Federer 4-4 final set vs Roddick, will he be the first man to 15 slam titles…
July 5th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
#385 SodaJoe:
But why?
I don’t really understand Skop. He sounds anti-government and a bit anti-other-bloggers
July 5th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
#388 SodaJoe:
I think that the Australians could play a good 25 adverts during a Lions test and still call it live
July 5th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
#386 Atreides: Crabkowski can run sideways. End of story.
Heaslip totally embarrassed him yesterday. He alone contributed to 6 or more turnovers. In and out of the tackle. Terrible in the lineouts – created huge pressure on his scrummy. People have blamed his loss of form on the loss of Deysel, I dunno. But Vermulen streets ahead of him, as is Spies.
JPP and Habs are easily our best wings.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
#381 chch: thats why Toeava keeps getting picked… I thought he had married GH’s son … oh well, learn something new…
July 5th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
#371 SodaJoe: Proves my point that PdV can never win over the majority of the fams even when he wins on the field.
If we win the Tr-Nations we will see:
“SPRINGBOKS WIN DESPITE COACHES TACTICS”
“SPRINGBOKS WIN LEAST CONTESTED TRI-NATIONS”
“TRI-NATIONS WIN DOESN’T COVER CRACKS WITHIN SQUAD”
I’ve personally never been a big fan but it’s about time he got comfortable at least for a second.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
#392 chch: You and he ride in the same dead-horse race. Yours is GH, his is JW.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
#393 chch: LOL.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
#396 Ezee-23: cmon Ezee, you still havent learnt
“Springboks slaughter sad southerners as Snor succumbs to senility”
cmon keo, alliteration like that is an art
LMFAO…
July 5th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
#396 Ezee-23: As my Dad says – look at the scoreboard, what’s in the book.
he has won more than he lost, which makes a change.
On at a time. 3N next. I think this is the big test. He had his honeymoon (sort of) with the last 3N. Which was disappointing.
This time, we need to stop fkg around with fat hookers as TH props, and 8′th men as wings, and 5′th choice hookers as starters.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
6-5 final set Federer.. going on serve at the moment..
July 5th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Speaking of Australians ….. SBS are at it again with their New Zealand issues. They managed to discuss the Tour sprint tonight for 20 minutes without mentioning the name of the rider who led Cancellara to the line.
Actually they were lame enough to say “look at his speed as he goes past that other rider” ….. they were referring to his team mate Julian Dean who led him and the race into the final 400m sprint and who pulled to the side (as you do in cycling) to let him through!
Australian sport commentators are soooo lame
July 5th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
I thought the mens final was last night? Won by Serina
July 5th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
This is an epic tennis game
July 5th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
#400 SodaJoe: I agree but I must ask: What “honeymoon period”? He wasn’t allowed one.
#399 poppa69: LOL. Sorry I couldn’t come up with one as quick as you did.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
#404 chch: it is indeed…
#405 Ezee-23:
July 5th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
#386 Atreides: Nokwe’s pace is excellent but I don’t know if he will ever be able to get rid of his poor defence and apparent nervousness at being tackled. Spies out classes Kanko at 8 no questions but it was a pity that Spies didn’t get some good ball on the wing because he if he had made soem of those bull runs it would have been a classic.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
#400 SodaJoe:
It will not matter when you play an AB side with the number 12 at 10, the number 6 at 8 and the orange boy at 13
July 5th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Quite annoying.. I really didn’t enjoy the BIL tour. They either didn’t play against out best teams or when they did, our best players weren’t allowed to play. The boks were rubbish and I predict that they’ll be last in this year’s 3N.
PdV isn’t the only problem. ****-I-want-everybody-to-play-in-every-position-except-where-they-are-best-Muir and Gary-I-coach-the-poorest-SA-forwards-unit-in-the-S14-Gold aren’t really world beaters…
July 5th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Great stuff Federer
July 5th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
#409 King Shark: if the boks were rubbish they would have lost the series
July 5th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
9 all!
Boks were not rubbish but that equalled the biggest score that the ABs have lost by
July 5th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
#407 byoboy: Agreed!
July 5th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
#411 byoboy: The boks were rubbish. If they played to their potential, they would’ve crushed a team that consists of players that are normally barely able to compete.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
#409 King Shark: I agree. As much as I berate Div, perhaps the real mistake is his selection of the 2 clowns as assistants.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
#415 goyougoodthing2: but werent Muir and Gold “quotas”
July 5th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
#409 King Shark: How rubbish can a win be?
#411 byoboy: Agreed!
July 5th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
10-10 neither player giving up… almost 4 hours on the court…
July 5th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
#414 King Shark: “They weren’t at their best” seems about right.
July 5th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
#417 Ezee-23: So if the boks were to beat Ladysmith High School by only 50 points they’d be allright. They won afterall.
July 5th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
Federer 42 aces 35 unforced errors
Roddick 25 aces 23 unforced errors
July 5th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
#408 chch: whose the orange boy you refer to , surely not C. Smith… did you mean Toeava?
July 5th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
#422 poppa69:
Toeava
July 5th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
#420 King Shark: I’m just saying they weren’t “rubbish” like you said they were.
In the 1st Test the 1st half was the best half of the series. And in the 2nd Test our comeback from the jaws of defeat involved the best try of the series(in my opinion).
In the 3rd test…well we were mostly “rubbish” in that one.
July 5th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
#416 poppa69: Of course not. They are possibly the 2 worst choices a coach could have made.
July 5th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
Oh no, the wisened one has woken up. Hold your lines men….hooooold
July 5th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
#414 King Shark: they didn’t play to their full potential but i don’t think they were rubbish and i think we’ve got a good chance of ending up champs in the 3N.
July 5th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
#427 byoboy: Australia to win it this year. Ab’s 2nd. South Africa 4th
July 5th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
#425 goyougoodthing2: I know, was just having a laugh… no offence meant.
July 5th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
#428 goyougoodthing2: No, SA to win, Aus might squeeze second. By the way, are you an Aus commentator?
July 5th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
#428 goyougoodthing2: not convinced on the Aussies just yet… Only played Italy and a tired France after they played us, and if history is anything to go by, France never win after beating the ABs… so still very much an unknown quantity really… they have looked impressive though…
July 5th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
#415 goyougoodthing2: Meyer should have been chosen end of story.
July 5th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
#431 poppa69: any way you look at it this is going to be a tight 3N, but still stick to my guns that we (SA) will pip the other 2
July 5th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
#429 poppa69: no worries, knew that
#430 byoboy: No, just like the name…
FEDERER YOU BEAUTY GOYOGOODTHING!
July 5th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
#433 byoboy: yep agree totally… but will still be behind the ABs, even though we are looking the worst of the bunch at the moment..
Congrats Federer… a true champ, always well spoken, gracious in victory and defeat… deserves it…
July 5th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
#44 sharks_lover:
Sharkslover, if you were driving an F1 car and you only just beat guy driving a Tata bakkie would you not be a bit concerned? The Boks really should have put the Lions away good and proper in all three tests. If this series had been played in 2007 they would have.
The so called depth of talent in SA rugger is so shallow you wouldn’t even get your ankles wet. I fear for the future of the Boks with all the quota rubbish and excusing of 3rd rate coaches.
July 5th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
#217 cab:
but your lot havent stopped.
JUSTICE.
July 5th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
#232 cab:
‘constructive criticism of the whinging’
I mean, are you for real ?!
JUSTICE
#260 Thucydides:
oh my God.
One amidst the millions !
Both eyes – check
Both ears – check
A brain – check.
Sonny, youre either gonna go far or not very far around here at all. Switch lasers to stun.
#279 poppa69:
Strictly and solely in a rugby sense tho .I think Kiwis are still more emotionally involved in matches vs Australia. For me there are 3 trophies – RWC, Bledisloe, TriN – in that order. And Ranfurly Shield for the purists.
I dont feel a rivallry with SA in cricket for example. Whereas even tho Aus are stronger, it still hurts losing to them.
But clearly, our 2 greatest rivals in rugby are SA & Aus with les Triclors looming as the Nemesis.
Footy. Great innit.
July 5th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
jc,
you are giving far to much credit to pdv by calling him a second rate coach – he is at least a 4th rate if not 5th rate coach.
farking useless and saru will probably keep the village idiot in his job because he was the affirmative action choice.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
#438 WakaNathan:
I am probably too far on the wrong side of 30 to still qualify as “sonny”, but petty details like my age aside, I am glad to hear you think I’ve got the potential to go far around here:-)Then again, not quite sure whether it is much of an achievement to go far on Keo.co.za…
PS – Arguably, one only needs one eye and half a brain to notice that South Africans can whinge with the worst of them… I hate to think what this site will be like if the Aussies win the 3N.(Which is where I’d put my money this year, if I was a betting man.)
July 6th, 2009 at 1:04 am
#438 WakaNathan: agreed, footys magic… but the greatest moment to me in the footy was in 96, when we returned to SA after losing in 95 and finally winning a series there…
to me, Aus are indeed a fierce rival in any sport, but in rugby they have only really been competitive with us since the late 80s, when we helped their rugby survive…whereas SA have been competitive throughout our rugby history with them… a marked difference IMO…
and I dont feel the same rivalry with the SA cricket team either, but us kiwis always delight in beating the Aussies, at any sport… them vice versa..which to me makes a mockery of the whole reffing alliance…both nations too proud to collude with the enemy across the ditch
for me, the ultimate is always the Boks, too much history to surpass for me….
July 6th, 2009 at 7:38 am
Having sat back and given PDV the benefit of the doubt for this series I am deeply concerned going into the Tri Nations. We have PDv up against Deans and Henry. Need we say more. I do support PDV for all his good intentions and the fact that he has been given one of the most difficult jobs in rugby with very little experience. The fact is he is just not up to it. It has been a long time since I saw a Bok team like that fold especially at Ellis Park. The reality here is that the Boks have been flirting with danger the whole series. In both test the Boks won by the skin of their teeth and you have to be bloody blind to think any other way. A win is a win but given what the Lions had to offer and their firepower we should have won very comfortably and most certiantly should
have whitewashed the Lions on thhe back of the quality of palyer and depth we have.PDv has been lucky this time – unfortunately his luck is about to run out in the Tri nations.
The average SA Rugby supporter know **** when they see it. This team lacks innovation and discipline – we all know that if we play like we did in the Lions series we won’t win the tri nations when we have the players to do it.
July 6th, 2009 at 9:56 am
#441 Thucydides:
You dont need to imagine what its like if Aus win, after any SA loss its like the World Fingerpointing Championships.
#442 poppa69:
Yes, of course the ultimate rugby rivallry is SA, the Bokke. But the Bledisloe is massive and its own unique atmosphere with Aussies and Kiwis being culturally similar whereas I sometimes feel as if SA & NZ only have rugby as a connection as otherwise I feel we are very different people. It has also helped that SA is now strong again because they have taken a while post-isolation to get back to their old high standards. With rugby, NZers only gain respect for the opposition thru a loss and perhaps this is the year the Boks finally get under NZs skin with a ’series’ win. Until then, its all talk. Lots of it.
Despite what these locals say however, I would rather the Safas win than the Aussies, every time. I flew to the RWC Final, did not sell my ticket for huge sums, and supported the Boks to their win. Funny, they take objective criticism SO personally but its just sport at the end of the day.
July 6th, 2009 at 10:26 am
#443 WakaNathan:
On current form, I’d back the Lions to win the World Fingerpointing Championships, but not by much … Saffas are bound to be very competitive, given the incredible experience and talent at their disposal
Mind you, on the rare occassions when the All Blacks lose a game of rugby, you lot are pretty adept at the whinging part as well.
July 6th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
#211 goyougoodthing2:
didnt say NZ wasnt or was racist at all.Did you notice the smiley face,just having a joke but if you want to get all serious on it i am keen.
So here we are a South African telling me about what my people are going through,i am Maori by the way.You have got it so wrong i think you should just keep right out of it.Maori land was taken away from them,i dont understand how you can say the forests were not there 150 years ago,sure as hell building werent there.The government sighned a treaty and went back on some of those claims.The Maori after 100 odd years have decided enough is enough and did something about it.
OK we do have a government party that supports Maori,but its just not Maori that hold those seats.We in NZ have realised that we are doing things differently but we have never been through what SA have been through with race,so maybe we are doing things right
Fishing rights is for the Iwi that belongs to that land/sea,easy.
Maori have stood up for what they believe in and in NZ they have been heard.As you know not all countries want to listen to anything that isnt there own colour.
July 6th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
#241 goyougoodthing2:
Again you are clueless.Read the whole thread and stop being a *****,it was a joke.Next time you are on i will carry this on as well.
July 6th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
not a very accurate summary in my opinion.
The Lions have been by far the more indisciplined side.
Their was very clearly an intent to get under the skin of the bok players… in particular Bismarck and bakkies…
BOD taking a swing at bismarck in the first test… Phillips taking swings at any player he could….
FACT
the Lions conceded probably 50% more penalties than the boks for “dangerous or foul play” i will get the exact figures shortly.
so this article is far from the truth. the truth is, the constant niggling and aggro tactics from the lions caused (rightly or wrongly) reactions from some of our players.
July 6th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Indiscipline wasnt only coach related. I honestly believe the Lions played some darn dirty rugby and were cheating wherever and whenever they could. I have never seen players like Habana and Pierre Spies have a good go in fights. But this series they were livid. All the fights started from underhanded skullduggery by the Lions. If you ask my they were very negative and unsporting. You always have niggles but these 3 tests have actually left a really bad taste in the mouth.
I also believe they got more of a chance at winning due to their underhanded tactics.
July 6th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
#444 Thucydides:
Just one question please, why are you still talking to this oke?
We have all given up on him some time ago.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
#449 Pietman:
Perhaps he has a brain and 2 eyes ?
who is ‘we’ ?
July 6th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
#449 Pietman:
They must be doubly annoying when they are right too….
“The IRBInternational Rugby Board have charged the South African Rugby Union after the Springboks wore armbands during the Third Test defeat to the British and Irish Lions on Saturday as a symbol of solidarity for Bakkies Botha.
The protest occurred aftr the upholding of Botha’s two-week suspension by an independent Appeal Committee for dangerously charging into a ruck without binding on a player.
The IRB have pressed charges for alleged Misconduct in breach of the IRB Regulations Relating to the Game including breaches of the IRB Code of Conduct.
The IRB takes the view that such an act demonstrates a clear disregard of the disciplinary process and does so in a manner which brings, or has the potential to bring, the Game into disrepute.
The IRB has notified the South Africa Rugby Union that it intends to begin the disciplinary proceedings. The matter will now be referred to the independent Judicial Panel Chairman who will appoint a Judicial Officer or Committee.
Botha was banned for two weeks for the second-half charge in the Springboks nailbiting second Test victory over the Lions – which gave them the series – on Adam Jones that left the Welsh prop needing corrective surgery to right a dislocated shoulder.
The Springbok and Lions coaching staff, as well as Jones, have insisted that they saw nothing untoward in the second-rower’s charge, arguing he had merely been clearing a ruck.
“As a sign of solidarity the Springbok players decided to wear white arm bands during the Test match,” said Piet Heymans, head of the South African Rugby Players Association (SARPA).
“At the same time the players want to send a clear message that they require the IRB to have an urgent and serious relook at Law 10.4 (j).”
July 8th, 2009 at 9:52 am
For all the delusional JWhite cheerleaders including KEO, maybe u need to look at the Boks record in the 21 matches b4 2007 RWC and then tell us how great a team they were:
AB 33 Boks 6 L
Aus 25 Boks 17 L
Boks 21 AB 26 L
Boks 22 Aus 19 W
Boks 35 Sam 8 W
Boks 55 Eng 22 W
Boks 58 Eng 10 W
W XV 7 Boks 32 W
Eng 14 Boks 25 W
Eng 23 Boks 21 L
Ire 32 Boks 15 L
Boks 24 Aus 16 W
Boks 21 AB 20 W
Boks 26 AB 45 L
Aus 20 Boks 18 L
AB 35 Boks 17 L
Aus 49 Boks 0 L
Boks 26 Fra 36 L
Boks 29 Scot 15 W
Boks 36 Scot 16 W
Boks 30 W XV 27 W
Thats 11 wins and 10 losses. Thats a 52% win ratio.
U need to stop making out JW to be such a great coach whereas the numbers tell us otherwise.