Indiscipline endemic to anarchy
5 Jul 2009
The Springbok discipline has been shocking throughout the three-Test series, a fact that confirms all is not well in the South African camp.
‘That was just two minutes of the game, and we play for 80 minutes,’ head coach Peter de Villiers replied when asked about the senseless scuffle that afforded the Lions a late penalty in Saturday’s defeat.
The Lions won by more than three points, but that wasn’t the issue. De Villiers dodged the question pertaining to brain explosions that are becoming the norm rather than the exception.
Why is he dodging the question? Because the answer is a poor reflection on himself. The Boks are an aggravated lot, just as they were under Rudolf Straeuli. Does that suggest they don’t back their own coach or are unhappy under his rule?
You look at the evidence and you decide.
The senior players have had to take on greater responsibility since De Villiers came to power. A tumultuous 2008 Tri-Nations was characterised by what De Villiers called total rugby, a brand that was devoid of sense or structure, and most importantly a brand that led to a last-place finish. On the end-of-the-year tour, the game against England witnessed the reversion to a more structured approach as the senior players put their collective foot down to force De Villiers into submission.
De Villiers was hailed in the aftermath, but insiders confirmed the senior players were determined to play to a pattern akin to the one that won the World Cup.
In 2008, De Villiers’s advisors peddled the line, ‘Give us time to work with him’, implying that given a chance, he could become a half decent coach.
Together with his consistently ridiculous press conference offerings, his rugby contribution has failed to improve. That first Test in Durban was so nearly lost thanks to some mindless substitutions in the final quarter, and in the second and third Tests, the patent lack of player discipline served to highlight his lack of control.
The Boks are getting worse, not better. Maybe it’s taken Saturday’s defeat for more people to realise that.
Most of these Bok players have been together for five years and a number boast over 50 caps. When you see a player like Victor Matfield, a veteran and vice-captain of the Boks, involved in off-the-ball fighting, you have to wonder. There’s aggression and then there’s senseless pushing and shoving that ultimately ends in a penalty against your own team. The experienced players just don’t do that.
Indiscipline is not limited to foul play. It was written off as rust in the first Test, but the Bok decision-making has been shocking across all three games. The Boks were robbed of a kickable penalty in the final stages of the second Test because Bismarck du Plessis took a quick tap. Where was the common sense?
Sure, players need to be held accountable for their own poor decisions, but when they occur so frequently you have to question the coaching philosophy that continues to tolerate perpetual failure in this regard.
Some would say John Smit should shoulder some of the blame for not taking more control on the park. Smit is already under enough pressure trying to play a position that’s not his best, and play it for 80 minutes since the Bok management haven’t bothered to include another specialist tighthead on the bench. No, Smit’s done an admirable job in this series despite the coaching staff, not because of them.
The balance of the 22 has been suspect across the series, the substitutions in the first Test highlighting the point. The decision to field a team boasting 10 changes in the third Test was also flawed given the Boks were so shaky in the first two games. The results failed to hide the fact that they were off the pace.
De Villiers is now talking about building for the Tri-Nations, as if defeat to the Lions’ second-stringers in Johannesburg has afforded him some great insight. Another win for the Bok first side would not have served as a precursor to Tri-Nations glory, but it would have afforded the Boks a further opportunity to attain the synergy that was so obviously lacking in Durban and Pretoria.
The Boks head into the Tri-Nations a group of individuals when they should head into this tournament a hardened and well-drilled team. They have the Lions series win to show for their efforts, but their sub-standard performances in all three games tell a truer story.
This side is stacked with individual talent, but without the necessary management, the team is on a downward spiral. Ian McGeechan came to South Africa with a limited team and managed to record a relatively commendable 2-1 result. De Villiers went into a home series with a world champion team, scraped two wins and then proceeded to field an unbalanced group of youngsters to lose at the fortress Ellis Park. Who should be celebrated and who should be condemned?
The Boks have beaten the Lions and South Africa should celebrate the result, and after that, South Africa should move on. In moving on, South Africa should acknowledge why their world champion team is not performing to world champion standards.
The bottom line is that as a top rugby nation, we deserve more than a second-rate coach.
By Jon Cardinelli, in Johannesburg
452 Comments
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5 Jul 2009, 09:17 am
Hahaha, that’s ur facts? “Div doesn’t know what he’s doing” lol…mate that’s an opinion and and as schoolboy-esc as you can get.
Just for interest sake do you know the win-loss records of the Super 14 coaches? In a tournament that is rated as the best in the world, what coaches did we pick and what are their records?
5 Jul 2009, 09:17 am
Those silly armbands are symptomatic of their anarchic and ill-disciplined lack of professionalism. Leadership is lacking.
5 Jul 2009, 09:19 am
#40 RugbyStudent: Chilli boy didnt play that badly , i for one have no problem with hisd selection
i just feel we should have started because of bismarks stronger scrummaging
what you may not realise is its not only power in the front row but technique
smit bismark and beast know each other so well , and with bakkies already gone , the warning lights should have been on , not to make changes in the front row
yet still i think chilli played quite well , and is not the reason we lost
5 Jul 2009, 09:19 am
#52 TheTackler:
Tackler,you being a lonely expat with nothing good to say about SA is silly for being here.
Dont you have to go and drink your warm milk and brush your mothers hair?
5 Jul 2009, 09:22 am
#54 Fern:
5 Jul 2009, 09:23 am
#51 RugbyStudent: Ask the players what they think of Snor, wait for Smit’s book, gonna be a cooker I hear.
5 Jul 2009, 09:23 am
#53 sharks_lover: Our scrums need
CJ vand der Linde
BJ Botha
Faan Rautenbach
Daan Human
Werner Kruger
We need 2 new strng number 4 locks
Steenkamp and maybe that new guy at WP
We need a new rugby board and get Smit back in a hooker or get another captain
5 Jul 2009, 09:29 am
#57 JL1: spot on thats exactly what we need………..but we know pdv will sadly not pick them, as he wont pick players outside SA even though he can…hes a idiot. I believe we also need different selectors
ideally interms of scrumming ability alone and not open play this is our strongest frontrow
1 human/hienke van der merwe
2 smit
3 BJ botha
5 Jul 2009, 09:30 am
Sharks_lover
Agreed, cj and bj a must if we wanna win in the next world cup. A front row squad of:
1. Beast, Guthro
2. John, Chilliboy
3. Cj, Bj
Would make us proud. Add to that;
4.) Bakkies, Danie
5.) Matfield, Bekker
Then our tight 5 will be awesome
5 Jul 2009, 09:31 am
The only indiscipline the boks showed (bar the sily schalk incident) was to be dragged into the lions dirty play this tour.
The lions have always played dirty (aka johnson’s lions) and again tried to ruffle the boks feathers this series. WHat did edwards mean before the 2nd test that they wont be intimidated? They were planning to get in our faces. We fell for it.
Unfortunately the boks play with brawn and no brains and loose their cool when maggots like phillips and BOD and sheridan and vicery etc etc start off the ball stuff. Then we try and sort it out ourselves and the refs just love penalising the boks for retaliation.
We need to learn to be more wise on a field and not to get involved and lose our cool n the field. The second thing that needs to happen is that the IRB need to be more consistent in their execution of handing down the law.
5 Jul 2009, 09:33 am
Disturbing yet very accurate article by JC.
Well thought through and presented.
Of course we will get the fanatics on just now,
Most of them confused themselves.
They will be spewing bile, accusing everyone of being racists.
They will call anyone with apposing views a couple of well trodden names and say we are targeting Snor because he is he is a Coloured, not realizing that Coloured is a definition of pigmentation and not one’s ability as a human being.
But the unfortunate truth will remain.
I feel sorry for Snor because he is taking a lot of heat. He also seems like a decent sort of fellow. BUT he ain’t a Springbok coach, not by a country mile, not yet. Just not up to the job.
Bring JW in as DOR so that he can pull the strings and coach the coach for a few years. Get rid of the amateur assistants. Beg Solomons, Percy and Pieter Russouw to come on board.
Very important, get rid of the PR-machine and get a Keo type crew in place. Although opinionated he knows damn well what he is doing and everyone seems to underestimate the impact of negative press and sound public relations on the team itself.
It’s a win, win for all.
5 Jul 2009, 09:47 am
Great article and it should now be plain for all to see… we reallu only played 60 minutes of decent world champion rugby the whole series. I can’t think the excuse of the players not having the heart yesterday because the series was won as being true – these guys play as hard as they can in every test match…they were just hammered by a better team. Changing the front row and the back 3 was silly. I thought Zane had an OK game but he made some glaring mistakes in defence. Nokwe was blown away and Odwa was as solid yet unspectacular as always, just a pity about his disallowed try. Knankowski’s name was mentioned for involvement on play more times in the first 20 minutes than Spies’ was in the the first 2 tests put together, so I think Spies also needs to take a breather as 8th man.
. Also, there seemed to be a multitude of Lions joining the rucks from offside positions, but maybe that was just the TV angle. And then I would REALLY like to know about Heaslip’s (I think) clean out of Juan Smith….was that not EXACTLY the same as what Bakkies did last week? As far as I know he hasn’t been cited?
I thought Dickinson missed a lot of players ahead of the Lions kickers whenever they bombed their up and unders, but that foolish Frenchman on the touchline was never going to understand ALL the rules was he?
Shaw’s knee was disgraceful but let’s see what happens to him – the end of thier season so I don’t think he’ll give a hoot if they ban him for 2 weeks.
Nevertheless, this is not about the game, it’s about the rot that’s set in. The JW legacy that the players have held on to and that has carried them this far through de Villiers’ inept coaching ids now wearing thin and the resultant mess is being brutally exposed.
I fear we have yet another 3rd place in the Tri Nations to look forward to…
5 Jul 2009, 09:49 am
#61 Bul-a-Bhloo: well balanced article – 3 days ago the keo lot all agreed that fielding a 2nd string team with the eye on the 3N is not such a bad idea – today they criticize because he did make the changes… pathetic journalism if you ask me
5 Jul 2009, 09:49 am
Best SA TEAM: 1.BEAST/HEINKE 2.BISMARK/SMIT 3.BJ/CJ 4.BAKKIES 5.VICTOR 6.BRUSSOUW 7.JUAN 8.BIG JOE 9.PIENAAR(FOURIE maak te stadig skoon.) 10.M STEYN 11.HABANA 12.JEAN 13.FOURIE 14.JPP 15.F STEYN
5 Jul 2009, 09:49 am
Great article, speaks to the very heart of the matter. My grandmother could coach this current Bok side to a few wins and she knows less about rugby than Div.
The fact is that we are not getting better we are getting worse. I am just glad that we managed to win the series despite this plonker.
No doubt his defense will be something abstract like purple mechanics and chinese astronauts.
5 Jul 2009, 09:59 am
snor
takes
a lot
of heat
but he knows
he will
keep
his job
that’s why
he made
his job
even more
political
by officially
backing
the anc
our rugby
is fooked
our problem
is our
politics
we live in
africa
5 Jul 2009, 10:00 am
Thats not really fair- I thought this tam would od better and so did you. I did not take intoa ccount that were were playing with effectively 7 forwards as Muller does NOTHING effective at rucks. We will never get clean ball if he plays. Neither do the Sharks.
5 Jul 2009, 10:06 am
#66 Porra the Fat Speedster: True. But if we like rugby we need to find ways to work around these hurdles.
#63 BrusselsBok: I believe we are painting on a much wider canvas this morning. I think it was sound to make the changes as the game was a dead rubber. I think we were all surprised at the lack of synergy (lack of coaching) yesterday.
5 Jul 2009, 10:06 am
When PdV wins the Lions series keo.co.za crucifies him.When Jake White lost a record 40 something nil a few years ago in Australia they say nothing. Racists. Idiots
5 Jul 2009, 10:09 am
#69 Freestater: Ah, the first one arises. Must be a bugger carrying that chip on your shoulder?
5 Jul 2009, 10:09 am
tam = team
od = do
5 Jul 2009, 10:12 am
#64 THE ROCK: Big joe? Did you just step out of a time machine from 1998? Isn’t big joe retired? Because he has been NOWHERE for the last 4 years…
5 Jul 2009, 10:18 am
Twakkies se komentar oor hoekom die Bokke gister so swak was:
“sometimes your car doesn’t start and it could be because your alternator wasn’t serviced properlyand you put unleaded petrol in when it needed diesel. But the serviceplan hasn’t expired so we can all get new spark plugs”
5 Jul 2009, 10:18 am
The Lions got away with murder in all three tests. O’Driscoll wasn’t even cited for his no-arms tackle that took Rossouw out, Schalk’s head was nearly taken of in a high tackle, Habana was almost decapitated – intentionally; Shaw kneed Fourie du Preez into oblivion… And although the Springboks played absolutely atrocious rugby, the coaching is even worse.
And the Lions shouldn’t be too proud of their victory. Watch the video again – in the build-up to the first try there was (unintentional) obstruction that should have given the Springboks a scrum; in the second try the tap-back was about 2 metres forward. Dickenson’s record against South Africa? Something like 3 test wins for SA when he’s got the whistle, and 7 defeats.
Oh, and Smit isn’t a prop OR a hooker and I can’t seeing him last to the World Cup; so let’s get a new captain. Just not JdV, Schalk or Matfield!! Juan Smith or Luke Watson are better bets – they are the only Super14 captains who could help the team.
5 Jul 2009, 10:20 am
john was huffing and puffing he doesnt sound fit
5 Jul 2009, 10:22 am
#74 DaveyJ:
pdv
is getting
away
with murder
too
5 Jul 2009, 10:30 am
No doubt about it, even though we won the series, this loss was very disappointing. Especially the “headless chicken” manner of the loss.
So lets compare the positives and negatives of this coaching tenure. Surely, a settled team packed with the most experienced players in SA history, World Cup winners, you’d expect the positives to vastly outweigh the negatives?
POSITIVES
- First ever win away at Dunedin, and the Boks first win in NZ since 1998.
- Record win over Aus at Ellis Park
- Record win over England at Twickenham (in fact England’s biggest loss at Twickenham ever)
- Unbeaten NH tour (albeit France and Ireland were not played)
- Series win against the B&I Lions
- 71% success rate (to view this *** a genuine positive is in my view a symbol of mediocrity, it is only to be viewed as a positive in light of the previous coaches’ records)
NEGATIVES
- First ever NIL at home in losing 19-0 to NZ
- First loss against Aus at home since 2000
- Finished last in the Tri-Nations 2008
- Struggled to wins over Wales (twice in the early season, once on the EOYT), Italy (early season), Scotland and B&I Lions. The manner of the wins is disappointing, one gets a sense the Boks are trying to make winning difficult for themselves.
- First loss at Ellis Park since 2001.
Do the positives outweigh the negatives? Or is it just about even stevens at the moment? The Tri-Nations will be very interesting.
The jury is still out as to whether we are progressing or regressing.
5 Jul 2009, 10:31 am
#74 DaveyJ:
which sa
s14 captain
won the s14
twice
5 Jul 2009, 10:34 am
#76 Porra the Fat Speedster: Ja, AND bad judgment, stupid pronouncements, weird selections, horrible substitutions… And the worst is, he defends every stupid decision. If he can convert the energy he uses to talk manure to learn something about test rugby, he will be a brilliant coach. Worts of all, he’s dragging **** Muir and Gary Gold down with him. They just look incompetent at this stage.
5 Jul 2009, 10:35 am
Sorry, one more negative – biggest ever loss to the B&I Lions.
5 Jul 2009, 10:40 am
This article is disappointing to say the least, why the fk do our press jump on the band wagon and start slating the boks for indiscipline when we know full well that the B&I Lions discipline was absolutley shocking. GO BOKKE!!!!
5 Jul 2009, 10:41 am
#78 Porra the Fat Speedster: Smit is an inspirational caption, Matfield is just a good captain. There IS a difference. And the Bulls had a better coach than the Boks have.
But will Matfield last until 2011? Or Smit? Methinks not. So… we’re building for 2011, but we’re not giving the 2011 captain an opportunity to arrive at the World Cup with 30 tests as captain under his belt? JdV is injury-prone, Smit is not under the three best players in his position, Matfield is getting older… Oy vey. Bad times ahead. And with a coach like PdV a strong leader on the field is a necessity!!
5 Jul 2009, 10:43 am
Our T5 got totally out played, the gap between Bakkies and Muller was huge. Juan at 7 is a spectator, so was Kanko , we missed Spies at the rucks.
Steyn did well when he came on, but Jongi is and aws terrible , how he could be picked above the other twin, only Peter will know.
Play
1 Beast /Gurthro
2 Bissey/Kuhn
3 Smit/Werner
4 Bakkies/Danie
5 Vic/ Bekker
6 Brussouw
7 Schalla/ Potgieter
8 Spies / Kanko
9 FdP/ Ruan
10 Morne/ Ruan
11 Habs/Twin
12 WO/ JdV
13 JF/ AD
14 Jpp/ Twin
15 Sten/ Zane
5 Jul 2009, 10:44 am
#74 DaveyJ: luke watson as springbok capt. ha ha ha ..are you kidding me, don’t be silly man. watson is gone and i hope he stays there.
5 Jul 2009, 10:47 am
#79 DaveyJ: The minit you talk Watson shows lack of Rugby knowledge , nee sis man
5 Jul 2009, 10:56 am
#83 capebull: I agree with your team, might have Potgeiter instead of schalla as first choice.
I thought Zane, Muller and Jongi were very poor. Morne, Brussouw and Wynand played well.
5 Jul 2009, 11:00 am
I still think Pienaar is the better option at flyhalf.
5 Jul 2009, 11:08 am
Its time for the old gaurd to stand down and new blood to come in. Its natural for players sticking toghere and promoting their mates. But we must start blooding new players…
Muller thank-you but sorry mate but heart doesnt always count.
But more important is to have a coach that has been sucesfull at S14 level.
Springbok coach is not learning…you should know enough ALREADY!!! I backed Snor to introduce running and brains rugby. Players who play the Ball. We have some old schoolers here who need to take a rest.
But Snor has shown his inexperince escpecailly when it came to uncontested scrum, thier action there was clear stupidty.
Oh to be a Bok suppoerter…with so much politics…I suppose the ANC will f@ck anything thats works properly from the old days…oh look north ouens to see whats coming….
5 Jul 2009, 11:08 am
Lessons out of 3rd test:
PDV although series was won to make 10 changes is suicidal in this team sport. I will concede that it was the only opportunity to assess the depth of the squad.
Dickinson I thought had a poor game esp blowing up Beast when I saw him only once slipping his bind.
Chili needs to jack his scrummaging cos his allround play is phenomenal.
Johann Muller is not up to test level and Kanko and Spies are both front foot players when their packs dominate but are unable to put in the hard yards. Please PDV call up Vermeulen or Watson.
Fourie and Morne both kicked good ball away too often and compounded this with inaccurate kicking. When will our players learn to play the situation and not kick for the sake of so called structure. Good example Zane kicking ball in the first 5 minutes with 2 man overlap.
Meisiekind is not up to test standard period. First try direct result of not tackling his man (never mind the hallelujah long pass). The prejudice against Adi is clear for me to see. No ways that JDV/AJ combo is matched in this country although I don’t mind JF as well.
FS is a fullback no further debate.
The manner in which we were rucked off the ball is frightening. We missed Bakkies and Schalla.
Time is now to invest in some new blood. PDV pick BJ or CJ. Bring in Potgieter, Deysel, Vermaak.
This senior player bullshit will also come to an end by bringing these new players in. No place for prima donnas (Div take a cue from Sir Alex). In any event it would be stupid to invest in the senior players for the defence of 2011. Most of them, probably, would lack the self belief to win Bill in NZ!!
Conrats PDV for your achievements to date but be firm and make the calls now, 2011 is around the corner.
5 Jul 2009, 11:11 am
#53 sharks_lover:
He seemed to be standing around alot, fringing alot, and at 1 stage in 1st H was keeled over sucking for breath.
Completely out of his depth. You gotta feel sorry for the fella actually, those selections do more harm than good.
#74 DaveyJ:
Oh go stick a stupid arrogant ‘Justice’ billboard on your head and go to work on proving the Boks eternal innocense.
5 Jul 2009, 11:14 am
#74 DaveyJ: you have got to be kidding luke the bok captain….
ja lets get the guy who hates the bokke and make him captain it would be a disaster none of the players respect him due to has disgusting comments…………not to mention he isnt good enough to be in the team as brussouw stegman & baywatch are all better opensiders, and if he wants to play No.8 then
spies,vermulen, potgieter (hes originally a No.8), joe van niekerk are all better than him
Also john smit is a hooker and a bloody good one & an excellent captain to get rid of him would be maddness. he brings stability to the boks and it is clear that him and the older players of the squad are running the show not snor.
5 Jul 2009, 11:17 am
Bottomline is our coach is a dumbass
I mean he almost lost the first test and he really can’t take any credit for what happened in the 2nd
And then he made ten changes for the third test
BUT
How kak must McGeechan not feel to lose against such an utter moron?
5 Jul 2009, 11:18 am
#52 TheTackler:
No, that was clearly Smits idea, read his diatribe about Bakkies the day before. The Captain is clearly running the ship but I think he’s been drinking too much of his own urine.
Me thinks some success has finally gone to someones head.
And dont believe the ‘Justice’ BS was solely about Bakkies, if you read Smits diatribe you will quickly figure out that the Boks think they are saving the game of rugby, doing us all a favour and preserving the games essence.
The single most arrogant thing I have ever seen on a rugby field. Thank God they didnt grace that with a victory. In fact, it was dis-graceful !
I would have hoped the Safas would have jumped up and down in disgust. But they seem blind and drunk on success of beating a fairly crappy Lions team. Only Skoppie seems to have any honour and has ridiculed them too. If an AB stuck that on his jersey, a jersey that has represented the nations peoples for 100+yrs, over 1 player getting a deserved ban, Id want him lynched. Lynched I say !
5 Jul 2009, 11:20 am
Fact is that is not only us South Africans who think that PDV is a joke and useless.
The WHOLE ENTIRE RUGBY WORLD agrees.
Does that make the whole planet racists? Don’t think so.
5 Jul 2009, 11:22 am
#93 WakaNathan: I think the whole thing is a fiasco. Super embarrassed.
Arm bands? FFS children who can’t swim wear armbands. Not national rugby players.
They are children not men
5 Jul 2009, 11:27 am
JC
I think, No I know, that you are spot on. All this **** remids me of the dark days of Struilli: the Boks is trying to win the fights; constant changing selections to get the “special” player(s) that will win us the game; the Boks playing as individuals; bad relations with the media; little struckture in play, weird team selections etc. etc.etc.
I am a great fan of Zane, but why the fck must his first game be against the Lions!?! guys l;ike that should play their first game against Italy or Tonga.
I just can’t fcking believe that we are going back in time. Why the fck don’t SARU learn from their past mistakes!
And yes, I don’t for one second blame Smittie. If it wasn’t for him we would have lost against the Lions.
5 Jul 2009, 11:29 am
#94 WilladieLeeu: Yes, you should read what the Brits say about the clown.
Funny that all the “racists” does not complain about Paul Treu (or JPP or Habana for that matter). Maybe because they are damn good about what they do.
5 Jul 2009, 11:32 am
#94 WilladieLeeu: no to some here on this blog (with their big chips) it would make the rest of the world western imperialistic racists
5 Jul 2009, 11:35 am
Paul True is a legend. Habana is a monster. JPP is fantastic. Chester Williams was a hero in this country.
Fact is that we welcome non-white players and we actually embrace them if theyre good. We are not racists – we want people in their positions that deserve it.
We face AA everyday, and it caused me to lose out on my dream job that I worked towards for years. I was told I was the best qualified, and just before I was appointed – I was told sorry…we have to appoint some-one black. Pissed me off, but it still didn’t make me angry.
5 Jul 2009, 11:35 am
#52 TheTackler:
Agreed, those arm bands were schoolboy – absolutely cringworthy and pathetic.
Then, again, everyone knows that the assistant coaches and the senior players are running the show so i guess the armband incident was moment the players started to run the ship (as opposed to the assistant coaches first, players 2nd).
On yesterdays evidence the balance might have gone too far.
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