Indiscipline endemic to anarchy
The Springbok discipline has been shocking throughout the three-Test series, a fact that confirms all is not well in the South African camp.
‘That was just two minutes of the game, and we play for 80 minutes,’ head coach Peter de Villiers replied when asked about the senseless scuffle that afforded the Lions a late penalty in Saturday’s defeat.
The Lions won by more than three points, but that wasn’t the issue. De Villiers dodged the question pertaining to brain explosions that are becoming the norm rather than the exception.
Why is he dodging the question? Because the answer is a poor reflection on himself. The Boks are an aggravated lot, just as they were under Rudolf Straeuli. Does that suggest they don’t back their own coach or are unhappy under his rule?
You look at the evidence and you decide.
The senior players have had to take on greater responsibility since De Villiers came to power. A tumultuous 2008 Tri-Nations was characterised by what De Villiers called total rugby, a brand that was devoid of sense or structure, and most importantly a brand that led to a last-place finish. On the end-of-the-year tour, the game against England witnessed the reversion to a more structured approach as the senior players put their collective foot down to force De Villiers into submission.
De Villiers was hailed in the aftermath, but insiders confirmed the senior players were determined to play to a pattern akin to the one that won the World Cup.
In 2008, De Villiers’s advisors peddled the line, ‘Give us time to work with him’, implying that given a chance, he could become a half decent coach.
Together with his consistently ridiculous press conference offerings, his rugby contribution has failed to improve. That first Test in Durban was so nearly lost thanks to some mindless substitutions in the final quarter, and in the second and third Tests, the patent lack of player discipline served to highlight his lack of control.
The Boks are getting worse, not better. Maybe it’s taken Saturday’s defeat for more people to realise that.
Most of these Bok players have been together for five years and a number boast over 50 caps. When you see a player like Victor Matfield, a veteran and vice-captain of the Boks, involved in off-the-ball fighting, you have to wonder. There’s aggression and then there’s senseless pushing and shoving that ultimately ends in a penalty against your own team. The experienced players just don’t do that.
Indiscipline is not limited to foul play. It was written off as rust in the first Test, but the Bok decision-making has been shocking across all three games. The Boks were robbed of a kickable penalty in the final stages of the second Test because Bismarck du Plessis took a quick tap. Where was the common sense?
Sure, players need to be held accountable for their own poor decisions, but when they occur so frequently you have to question the coaching philosophy that continues to tolerate perpetual failure in this regard.
Some would say John Smit should shoulder some of the blame for not taking more control on the park. Smit is already under enough pressure trying to play a position that’s not his best, and play it for 80 minutes since the Bok management haven’t bothered to include another specialist tighthead on the bench. No, Smit’s done an admirable job in this series despite the coaching staff, not because of them.
The balance of the 22 has been suspect across the series, the substitutions in the first Test highlighting the point. The decision to field a team boasting 10 changes in the third Test was also flawed given the Boks were so shaky in the first two games. The results failed to hide the fact that they were off the pace.
De Villiers is now talking about building for the Tri-Nations, as if defeat to the Lions’ second-stringers in Johannesburg has afforded him some great insight. Another win for the Bok first side would not have served as a precursor to Tri-Nations glory, but it would have afforded the Boks a further opportunity to attain the synergy that was so obviously lacking in Durban and Pretoria.
The Boks head into the Tri-Nations a group of individuals when they should head into this tournament a hardened and well-drilled team. They have the Lions series win to show for their efforts, but their sub-standard performances in all three games tell a truer story.
This side is stacked with individual talent, but without the necessary management, the team is on a downward spiral. Ian McGeechan came to South Africa with a limited team and managed to record a relatively commendable 2-1 result. De Villiers went into a home series with a world champion team, scraped two wins and then proceeded to field an unbalanced group of youngsters to lose at the fortress Ellis Park. Who should be celebrated and who should be condemned?
The Boks have beaten the Lions and South Africa should celebrate the result, and after that, South Africa should move on. In moving on, South Africa should acknowledge why their world champion team is not performing to world champion standards.
The bottom line is that as a top rugby nation, we deserve more than a second-rate coach.
By Jon Cardinelli, in Johannesburg
July 5th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
#113 cab:
“when have we ever beaten a lions side or any other by 40 points 3 times in a row. i never saw that under JW, i see a 36-0 win which was the best in 4 years, i’ve seen bigger under PdV in 1 year.”
One could add that it was on White’s watch that we saw things like the 36-12, “boys against men” loss against England. Also worth recalling that this happened on a tour that began with plenty of over-confident talk about grand slams, etc.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Could someone be so kind as to please list all the credentials or achievements of the current SA coaching team?
PdV:
Muir:
Gold:
Did Muir only coach the Sharks? Who is Gary Gold exactly?
PS: I am not trying to be funny or sarcastic, I really don’t know (can’t remember) what the CVs of these gentlemen would look like.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Great series win for the Bokke, can’t understand why PDV wouldn’t want to make history though and whitewash them, it was pretty clear after the Loftus test that a weakened Bokke side would struggle.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
#135 WakaNathan: “Independent tribunal.” Wat se k@k is dit? Who were those 3 “wise men” on that tribunal and what is their actual rugby experience? Just as one would not appoint the Governor of Zimbabwe’s Reserve Bank to the IMF policy committee, so too the IRB should not use 3 people without any real rugby experience to judge players’ indiscretions. The ICC has got it absolutely right by having former Test cricketers as match referees at all international matches where, if necessary, they can impose fines and suspensions. Similarly the IRB has got it absolutely wrong in the Bakkies Botha case, hence the outcry and criticism by players, coaches (including Warren Gatland) and supporters.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
#142 cab: If Saffas get sick of whingers why then are people on here whinging so much? A whinge is a whinge regardless of who it is against, the media, opposition, refs or your own bloody coach!
I get the gist of it now though. Someone from Britain or Ireland complains about something that is perceived to be unfair then it is a whinge. Someone from SA complains about something perceived unfair it isn’t classed as a whinge. Biggest load of **** I’ve ever heard!
July 5th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
#151 Thucydides:
Thing with the thinking of this, is that when Jake had his first test match against Ireland – 12 June 2004 in Bloem – Bakkies played in his 7th test, Matfield in his 9th. a Certain Fourie du Preez made his debut that same day.
Yes, we won the Tri-nations, but when we played England that year – the team had a combined cap of 72. That day also a certain Bryan Habana made his test debut. John Smit captained his 9th test.
No comparison to that time and this. Perspective people.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Pointing to the fact that the Boks won the series under de Villers isn’t – Boks won the series DESPITE him, not because of him.
With the talent the Boks have at their disposal, they should have put this Lions team to the sword. This was not a particularly strong Lions team – that should be pretty obvious Boks were even-money in the NH to pull of a 3-0 whitewash.
What I thought was interesting was the fact that a lot was made in the South African press of PdV’s selection of Pienaar, de Villers and Jacobs as a midfield when the form players (at least as far as I saw it) in Super 14 were Steyn, Olivier and Fourie.
Considering they were playing against Flutey, derided as a Super 14 reject, and Bowe who’s only a part-time centre, they looked decidedly average. Didn’t think much of Kirchner either on that performance, though his Super 14 form suggests he’s a better player. Would have helped if they’d had JP and Habana alongside them in that backline though.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
#155 jonnymain:
Kom bly bietjie hier – dan praat ons weer mamparra.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
#155 jonnymain:
Dont you know how it works here?
South Africans point out facts,its not a whinge or a complaint.Everyone else in the world are whingers and complainers with no facts what so ever,quite easy to understand really.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
#158 WilladieLeeu: My Afrikaans isn’t so good, but I don’t need to live somewhere to have an opinion. If you don’t like it that’s tough *****.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
#159 Hurricane: Well aware mate. I’m just sick and bloody tired of the double-standards that some guys have. I shouldn’t take it so seriously
July 5th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
#155 jonnymain: Winners don’t whinge china! We express our opinion. Losers on the other hand… well, you fill in the rest
July 5th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
I thought Smit ought to have got Morne Steyn to go for posts on several occasions rather than the corner . Particularly as the Boks were always under the pump , the BILs defence was outstanding and the Boks could not get their rolling maul into gear. Assumung Steyn would have kicked 100% , how many points did he leave on the field , and how could this have changed the game ? Was it 4 or 5 kickable penalties they squandered?
July 5th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
#162 Durban Poison: Nice one
July 5th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
#162 Durban Poison:
what does it mean when you say “China”?
July 5th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
#160 jonnymain:
If you don’t live here – keep your opinion to youself. Want jy maak net jou naam gat.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
>> Assumung Steyn would have kicked 100% , how many points did he leave on the field , and how could this have changed the game ? Was it 4 or 5 kickable penalties they squandered <<
True… but at the same time, the Boks have scored tries in both preceding Tests from lineout ball so it wasn’t unreasonable to assume they’d be able to do so again.
Benefit of hindsight I guess.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
#166 WilladieLeeu: I don’t normally take an immediate disliking to keo bloggers, but I’ll make an exception just for you.
Hope the Lions have a good CC season
July 5th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
#165 Hurricane: You from New Zealand ‘bro’?! China’s that huge country north of you guys that’s been financially-colonising you over the last 4 years in an attempt to get you out of your recession! Wu Lo Yuk anyone?!
July 5th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
#168 jonnymain:
Thanks, appreciated.
Me too, beat the Griffons 54 – 7 Friday.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
#166 WilladieLeeu:
Everyone is allowed an opinion Willa,even you believe it or not.Of course it dosnt mean you have to agree with anyone but free speech is what the great WWW is all about.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
#169 Durban Poison:
sorry i get mixed up with all the asians and the South Africans coming over here,my mistake as you were durban
July 5th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
#159 Hurricane:
100%…
July 5th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
#166 WilladieLeeu: Didn’t know you guys had internet in Oranje?! Keep it coming Jonnymain – the rest of us have been living in a free country since 1994 and enjoy good a few good barbs, especially as they will never change the series result!
July 5th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
#174 Durban Poison:
You meant Orania? Yeah, and our own currency.
#171 Hurricane:
I know, just get pissed off when people have no idea. But your right.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
JC, last sentence of your penultimate paragraph says it all… you only need to play decent rugby for approx. four weeks to have the mantle of World Champs…
July 5th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
#174 Durban Poison:
On more thing. Free country? In your little world.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
#176 poppa69:
Cool, isn’t it?
July 5th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
#177 WilladieLeeu:
lol
I didnt want to say anything,glad you did
July 5th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
#172 Hurricane: Never really understood why Asians come to study in NZ in the first place. What with the poor standard of education and dodgy English. As for the Saffas there, I believe most of them actually work and their taxes pay for the ‘locals’ living on the dole! Bet you’re a Saffa living on the North Shore yourself! This site usually only attracts home-sick Saffas in NZ who secretly support the Boks
July 5th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
#142 cab:
OH
now I know why Smit thought it appropriate to grace us with his Justice campaign.
Youre all the same.
Its everyone else that whinges. If only Id figured that out years ago. If in doubt, ask a Safa.
Most people might say this tongue’n'cheek. Your problem is you actually appear to believe it.
#143 mbaxman93:
No, they complained because their player was eye-gouged and your Manager directly condoned it. They complained because they lost a player to dangerous play, and this was vindicated by a banning.
The Justice embarrtassment means that the Boks are major hypocrites and, yes, DO condone foul play.
But where is the news value in that ?
July 5th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
#178 WilladieLeeu: yeah it is… seems a shame though that we can have teams liek Eng really live up to the form shown over the 4 weeks…. really makes a mockery of the title the other 202 odd weeks… luckily, SA has been a little better as defending champs then England were…
July 5th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
#182 poppa69:
I wouldn’t say that.
I don’t measure our perfomances against NH teams. It Aus and NZ. 2 from 6. Not good.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Bottom line is the simple fact that the so called superiority of these ’senior players’ is one big hogwash myth.
It is high time these senior players simply either high tail it to better pastures or re structure this so called mythological superiority that was Jake White’s illustrious band of indestructible’s.
We already have seen with clear light of day clarity that the one indestructible Schalk Burger is by no means such, he is as fallible and imperfect as every other human born and primed to play this illustrious game of domination and physicality.
The infallible senior players are all getting long in the tooth already, so if this coaching setup which is way better than White, Smal, and Coetzee by a hundred fold, do not see and recognize this right now as a shedding point then they are going to get caught big time with their pants down.
Smit is on borrowed time, so too Matfield and maybe Bakkies and Smith, JdV part of the walking wounded, as is Schalk a shadow of his former self. The only potential prospect here is to bust this fallacious mold wide apart and start again, from ground up and develop a new team, and I would already start with a new captain pretty soon.
Take it on the chin and break up this so called mythological best team in the world syndrome, it is by no means such and if we do not bite the bullet and start again right now, this 2007 team of indestructible’s will take this coach down with them as they are already showing the way how.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
#180 Durban Poison:
lol
good one.
Nope born in NZ,but i think it shows on what sort of country NZ is,unlike your country,NZ has alot of different nationalities,which is good in alot of ways.And unlike your country the people who live here from different places can actually walk on the same side of the road as everyone else,they can go to the toilet with everyone else,they dont have to be a certain race to drink at a certain bar.
So yeah there is a few good things about NZ i suppose.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
#185 Hurricane:
oh i forgot this
July 5th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Its a big fat myth all this so called talent we have at our disposal, just look at the teams that faced each other and tell me in which position our players are better than the opposition.
Whoever was the coach Jake or whoever would struggle with waning players who are out of sorts with their so called superiority, they are not superior at all.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
#174 Durban Poison: With pleasure. Actually I don’t usually have a go at Saffas, I’m half-Saffa on my wife’s side
but I’m a bit fed up with some of the self-righteous **** posted on here.
Yes the Lions players were bad losers, especially after Pretoria and it was downright embarrassing for the likes of me to have to read and it gave you plenty of ammunition to label them as whingers etc. The series is over thankfully but nobody could deny that the actual rugby was highly entertaining and a lot closer than most people thought it would be.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
#184 skopskiet:
I agree 100%.
Rather let these borrowed time players play under a decent coach and win the Super 14 again.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
#183 WilladieLeeu: wasnt detracting from the fact you guys won, best team at the tournament and so deserved their victory… hats off to them…
Ive said it all along on here, it gets shot down because it appears I have sour grapes we havent won one since 87 (even that one gets shot down), but to me, it isnt a true test of rugby supremacy… I think it would be much better using the four years, top ten ranked nations play each other in a 3 test series, so roughly 6 tests a year, differing teams each year… top four ranked teams after the four years (or when everyone has played everyone else, alternate tours next 4 years so everyone gets a turn at home ground advantage)
these could be semi final series, best of 3… winners meet in a best of 3 final series and are crowned world champs…
teams ranked 11 to 20 play in their own series, with top two teams advancing to top league, bottom two drop to second league and so on…
July 5th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
#184 skopskiet:
Yes, the senior players are not what they were in 2007, but there is no denying that their experience pulled us through in Pretoria.
What concrens me about the coaching set up us that on Monday Zane practises with the Bulls and on Saterday he started for the Boks! What does that say about our planning?
July 5th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
#184 skopskiet:
‘Bottom line is the simple fact’ that if John Smit leaves today, PdeV will be ‘dead’ tomorrow (in rugby terms).
That is why PdeV brought him back from France (at all costs).
Fact, bottom line.
John should go back to playing hooker again, with Bissy as #2 ( another ‘fact’, by the way).
July 5th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
#187 skopskiet: Best scrum-half in the world, best lock pairing in the world. Habana is arguably the best winger in the world, Spies would be my pick in a world XV at No.8. Stop being so negative, the Boks are LOADED with talent.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
#177 WilladieLeeu:
Weet nie hoe lank jy al op keo is nie, maar net ingeval jy nie weet nie, daai ou is een mooosa rassistiese doOs.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
#191 LondonBul:
Junior players pulled us throughin Pretoria, no senior players did, senior player Schalk let the side down, Danie Roussouw got concussed by a center and Brussow and M.Steyn saved the day – with Jacque Fourie who got the pass from Brussow to go over, a senior player like Schalk or Smith would have backed himself and gone for the bust through on his own and got turned over like we saw yesterday.
It is time to get the senior players out, everybody reckons BArny Smit is the foundation of the team, well that is what he was for White, if PdV wants to go down the tubes he hangs onto John Smit and Victor Matfield for dear life then he is history.
If he wants to show he is a proper coach he gets shot of dead wood and starts again with proper props and proper locks to back up the guys who are losing it fast.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
#193 jonnymain:
Right on the button Jonno, spot on….now let’s have a wee dram on that I say!
July 5th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
#180 Durban Poison:
actually this posts has said a bit about you Durban.
You said “Never really understood why Asians COME to study in NZ”.hmmm not GO to NZ.
Another bit of your post ” Bet you’re a Saffa living on the North Shore yourself”.
You seem to know a bit about NZ.
And this “, I believe most of them actually work and their taxes pay for the ‘locals’ living on the dole!”
The dole…………hmmmm are you on the Dole in NZ?
July 5th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
#184 skopskiet:
you’re right
they
are
no best team
in the world
they were
however
but
snorre’s
lack of brains
took care
of that
July 5th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
#196 Pietman: Would be lovely if it were possible
July 5th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Anyway i am off to bed,its late here in NZ as Durban knows.
I have work tomorrow,unlike Durban
Cyas all