Indiscipline endemic to anarchy
5 Jul 2009
The Springbok discipline has been shocking throughout the three-Test series, a fact that confirms all is not well in the South African camp.
‘That was just two minutes of the game, and we play for 80 minutes,’ head coach Peter de Villiers replied when asked about the senseless scuffle that afforded the Lions a late penalty in Saturday’s defeat.
The Lions won by more than three points, but that wasn’t the issue. De Villiers dodged the question pertaining to brain explosions that are becoming the norm rather than the exception.
Why is he dodging the question? Because the answer is a poor reflection on himself. The Boks are an aggravated lot, just as they were under Rudolf Straeuli. Does that suggest they don’t back their own coach or are unhappy under his rule?
You look at the evidence and you decide.
The senior players have had to take on greater responsibility since De Villiers came to power. A tumultuous 2008 Tri-Nations was characterised by what De Villiers called total rugby, a brand that was devoid of sense or structure, and most importantly a brand that led to a last-place finish. On the end-of-the-year tour, the game against England witnessed the reversion to a more structured approach as the senior players put their collective foot down to force De Villiers into submission.
De Villiers was hailed in the aftermath, but insiders confirmed the senior players were determined to play to a pattern akin to the one that won the World Cup.
In 2008, De Villiers’s advisors peddled the line, ‘Give us time to work with him’, implying that given a chance, he could become a half decent coach.
Together with his consistently ridiculous press conference offerings, his rugby contribution has failed to improve. That first Test in Durban was so nearly lost thanks to some mindless substitutions in the final quarter, and in the second and third Tests, the patent lack of player discipline served to highlight his lack of control.
The Boks are getting worse, not better. Maybe it’s taken Saturday’s defeat for more people to realise that.
Most of these Bok players have been together for five years and a number boast over 50 caps. When you see a player like Victor Matfield, a veteran and vice-captain of the Boks, involved in off-the-ball fighting, you have to wonder. There’s aggression and then there’s senseless pushing and shoving that ultimately ends in a penalty against your own team. The experienced players just don’t do that.
Indiscipline is not limited to foul play. It was written off as rust in the first Test, but the Bok decision-making has been shocking across all three games. The Boks were robbed of a kickable penalty in the final stages of the second Test because Bismarck du Plessis took a quick tap. Where was the common sense?
Sure, players need to be held accountable for their own poor decisions, but when they occur so frequently you have to question the coaching philosophy that continues to tolerate perpetual failure in this regard.
Some would say John Smit should shoulder some of the blame for not taking more control on the park. Smit is already under enough pressure trying to play a position that’s not his best, and play it for 80 minutes since the Bok management haven’t bothered to include another specialist tighthead on the bench. No, Smit’s done an admirable job in this series despite the coaching staff, not because of them.
The balance of the 22 has been suspect across the series, the substitutions in the first Test highlighting the point. The decision to field a team boasting 10 changes in the third Test was also flawed given the Boks were so shaky in the first two games. The results failed to hide the fact that they were off the pace.
De Villiers is now talking about building for the Tri-Nations, as if defeat to the Lions’ second-stringers in Johannesburg has afforded him some great insight. Another win for the Bok first side would not have served as a precursor to Tri-Nations glory, but it would have afforded the Boks a further opportunity to attain the synergy that was so obviously lacking in Durban and Pretoria.
The Boks head into the Tri-Nations a group of individuals when they should head into this tournament a hardened and well-drilled team. They have the Lions series win to show for their efforts, but their sub-standard performances in all three games tell a truer story.
This side is stacked with individual talent, but without the necessary management, the team is on a downward spiral. Ian McGeechan came to South Africa with a limited team and managed to record a relatively commendable 2-1 result. De Villiers went into a home series with a world champion team, scraped two wins and then proceeded to field an unbalanced group of youngsters to lose at the fortress Ellis Park. Who should be celebrated and who should be condemned?
The Boks have beaten the Lions and South Africa should celebrate the result, and after that, South Africa should move on. In moving on, South Africa should acknowledge why their world champion team is not performing to world champion standards.
The bottom line is that as a top rugby nation, we deserve more than a second-rate coach.
By Jon Cardinelli, in Johannesburg
452 Comments
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5 Jul 2009, 15:23 pm
#235 WilladieLeeu: still very much the unknown for me…
ABs unfortunately have looked way off the boil, some quality coming back so may help, but not having played for a while not sure how much they will lift the side..
Aust have looked good, but Italy is not the same kettle of fish, and France never ever win after playing and beating the ABs… a wierd by product, I like to call it karma lol
SA, although having been seriously disrupted in the 3rd test, have had the toughest preparation of the 3, and I think this alone stands them in good stead…think PDV will start with the team from the first test… only making changes if they are forced through injury or suspension…
5 Jul 2009, 15:23 pm
#249 goyougoodthing2:
yeah couple more tickets and i could’ve bought a farm backhome.
probably a waste of money should have gone to charity or something.
followed the boks around france for every single game so had to complete the set.
great night tho..
5 Jul 2009, 15:24 pm
#246 skopskiet:
When you have two/three injuries we have depth. But making 10 changes to take on the B&I Lions is just madness.
No team in the world can do that, hence New Zealand losing to France in the first test. They had 8 injuries to their top players.
Depth isn’t fielding two squads as Graham Henry said, it’s when you have injuries you can replace them with players that can fill that void. But not 10 at the same time.
5 Jul 2009, 15:24 pm
#247 NZINCHINA: kiwis are reasonable in general. I think you’ll take a while to come back form the socialist lesbian PM, but it’ll be right mate.
One thing is for sure, kiwis wouldn’t stand for this nonsense the Boks are going through if it were the ABs. They’d be demanding, and getting answers to questions. Tough questions such as who is running the ship, which players don’t listen to the coach and who is feeding the media.
Think it’s going to be a shock when it comes out eventually here.
5 Jul 2009, 15:26 pm
#251 poppa69:
Currie Cup and Tri-nations at the same time. Life is good. But good luck with the 3N. Gonna be a cracker.
Why isn’t Stephen Brett in the squad? I rate that kid. He stepped in for Carter for the Crusaders.
5 Jul 2009, 15:27 pm
#44 sharks_lover: Face it people PdV is a complete idiot! We just scraped through the first two tests and got our arse handed to us yesterday – we were lucky to have one this Lions series. We’ve not looked convincing in the slightest. To top it off, PdV’s comments have made us look a complete laughing stock and he has tarnished the reputation of SA rugby for good. He needs to be fired on that basis alone for those ridiculous comments!
I’m not looking forward to this year’s Tri-Nations. I think its going to be one of the worst on record. I can see the Bok team imploding by the end of the year. We’re going to lose a lot of our senior players, Habana included. Yesterday’s hammering is a start of things to come.
The ABs are going to tear us a new a$$hole on the 25th! Expect another 19-0. Even skoppie isn’t convinced by Snor anymore. I for one want to see him fired for making us a laughing stock around the world!
5 Jul 2009, 15:27 pm
#253 WilladieLeeu: one of the few good things Henry has ever said or done… this from a man who didnt know who his form winger of the world cup was (howlett), and decided top play Carter when injured, when he had a more then able replacement to call on in the form of Evans… then lets him leave the country, which has come back to bite us big time…
5 Jul 2009, 15:28 pm
#234 saffa_guy:
Its the ‘winning ways’ undercover agenda, you can be sure who is behind all this propaganda stunt to get the rug pulled from under the national coach’s feet, there are secret meetings held in secret corridors by the 3rd force of the undercover agenda as we speak, and who is really pulling the strings behind this cloak and dagger little coup de grace we have going here, as Rodriguez would so eloquently ask, ‘I wonder’..?
5 Jul 2009, 15:29 pm
#231 cab:
Well, if “constructive criticism” can cure all the whinging, then I’m all for it.
I hope it cures not only the Lions’ supporters, but also the Bok fans… personally, I find the tendency around here to ***** about unfair travel schedules, biased refs (etc etc ad infinitum) at least as tedious as the Lions’ appalling lack of sportsmanship.
Glad to hear we agree that SA supporters tend to have unrealistic expectations. Might explain why they (also) tend to be whingers … given the expectations, the results cannot be anything but a series of disappointments.
5 Jul 2009, 15:30 pm
#257 poppa69: Ypu guys should have gone with Robbie Deans as AB coach. I can’t believe the NZRU didn’t appoint him.
#256 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: I think you are right – I hope you are wrong, but it looks like we are back to the dark days of Strueli.
5 Jul 2009, 15:31 pm
#180 Durban Poison: Like Tackler!!
5 Jul 2009, 15:32 pm
#255 WilladieLeeu: I agree, and think he would be a much better option then Donald…
think it is going to be a cracker series myself…
5 Jul 2009, 15:33 pm
#258 skopskiet: I think you’ll find the scariest part about this hidden agenda is that the main antagonist is the coach himself.
It’s like being a double agent, but even more tricky than that. A schitzo Suicide Bomber…
5 Jul 2009, 15:34 pm
Whether you win a test by a point or ten you win the match. The Boks won the series because in two games they scored more points than us. In the third we scored more points so won the match, but the war was won by the Boks. No gripes – no excuses – no blaming our coaches or blaming the refs. Good luck in Tri-Nations, not going to be easy.
5 Jul 2009, 15:35 pm
#259 Thucydides: talk to us kiwis about unrealistic expectations, from supporters to world press …our team developed an uncomplimentary tag that way lol
#260 LondonBul: me neither, was definitely touting for him… GH asked to be judged on his WC effort, and we had our worst EVER result… so to me he must have some powerful friends…
but after every world cup, we have fired the coach and repeated the mistakes… so in a way, as with the loss to France this year, it may stand us in good stead come 11… it may not either, but trying to be positive…
5 Jul 2009, 15:36 pm
#254 goyougoodthing2:
She was farken terrible, speaking of tickets prices was fortunate to be able to attend the WC final in 87′ as a school boy – terrace seat NZ$16 from memory back then most people could afford to go to the big games. Your situation will always be different so many factions in fighting but they have just won a series against the Lions so are tracking pretty well I would have thought, if we take one of you in SA this year i’ll be happy.
5 Jul 2009, 15:38 pm
#263 goyougoodthing2: Are you sitting on your Nuts.You sound in pain.
5 Jul 2009, 15:38 pm
#253 WilladieLeeu:
we imploded in the front row for starters, then at second row and in line outs, and at the breakdown with our top proponents of loose play, Brussow, Smith and Kankowski who to most pundits around here is as good or better than Spies.
Our so called ‘depth’ then extended into half back where we got taken to the cleaners, Phillips and Jones out playing FdP and Steyn, onto the famous best center pairing in the country, WO and Fourie who got shown up by Fluti and Bowe.
Wings are not even debatable and our second best FB who everyone was crying to be included from the beginning because he was the stalwart along with FdP, M.Steyn, and WO as the great Bloe Bulls contingent who would have walked this Lions side.
Everybody is living in la la delusion land over here, including this crouching bending over idiot who cries ‘fire the coach’ from over in his hidy hole in the far reaches under Mother Hen Her Majesty’s empire. Jake’s illustrious super duper infallible team is no more, a big fat inconsequential MYTH. Jake and Eddy Jones just as they capitulated with the greatest collection of players they could muster for the Barbarians against Australia, would not have beaten this Lions team with their so called fading fast ‘depth’ of WC 2007 players.
5 Jul 2009, 15:39 pm
#265 poppa69: I think the problem with ABs in RWCs is that they demolish almost everybody before them and then go in to confident in World Cups. So the defaet against France might be a blessing in diguise for you.
5 Jul 2009, 15:46 pm
#268 skopskiet: Amen.
5 Jul 2009, 15:47 pm
#269 LondonBul: Im thinking along the same lines… but the expectation and pressure, especially being at home, may IMO make this the toughest one of the lot for us to win…
and with players like Brussouw and potgeiter making claims, think you guys are going to be awfully difficult to beat… I believe by that time Brussouw may well be thought of in the terms most think of G Smith and McCaw, definitely has that potential…
just when loosie play seems to be reaching its nadir, along come players like Brussouw who keep raising the bar…
5 Jul 2009, 15:48 pm
#265 poppa69:
Even so, the All Blacks surely comes much closer to living up to those expectations (if we ignore that minor thing called the World Cup, of course … but I promise to shut up about that if you don’t mention SA’s record in the 3N, S14, and End of Year tours:-).
5 Jul 2009, 15:49 pm
#269 LondonBul: Henry need to coach a domino team.AB coach is wiff de aussies.
5 Jul 2009, 15:50 pm
#268 skopskiet: Is jy gesuip, PDV is besig om hierdie span op te neuk. Jy redeneer soos aap. Kom ons wag vir die 3N, dan kan ek vir jou se “I told you so”
5 Jul 2009, 15:50 pm
#268 skopskiet:
Don’t agree with you on everything.
But do agree with you on the front row and locks. We have nothing of international quality as back-up there.
We have so many loose forwards in this country – might as well have a few of them turn to lock. Alberts from the Lions an example.
5 Jul 2009, 15:52 pm
#271 poppa69: Yes, I think Brussow will be by a long shot the best fetcher in World Rugby in about a year from now.
Potgieter is also pretty good. But rugby is a team sport – throwing a number of talated individuals together does not a make a sucsesful rugby team….I am very concerned about our standard of coaching.
5 Jul 2009, 15:53 pm
#274 bok_bal: Hoe Redeneer n Aap,bokbal? Jy Klink soos n ************* so jy behoort seker te Weet n aap klink nie So Logies nie.
5 Jul 2009, 15:55 pm
#272 Thucydides: done deal… lol
us kiwis have always wanted SA to be strong, we need you guys to be strong, as we measure ourselves primarily against you guys… some will say the Bledisloe is the biggest deal nowadays, but they are the younger generation and are not fully aware of the tradition and history associated with NZ/SA clashes…
SA remains the old enemy in rugby terms, always have, always will….
5 Jul 2009, 15:56 pm
#277 namakwaland: Redeneer soos jy twakkie, net soos jy……
5 Jul 2009, 15:56 pm
#274 bok_bal: By ************* bedoel ek jy Beledig sonder om te Staaf.n Karaktertrek vannie *************.Jy klink soos Jon Cardinelli.
5 Jul 2009, 15:58 pm
#276 LondonBul: I think Potgeiter had an absolutely outstanding s14… was consistently getting through the line, always linking superbly and his support play was excellent…
Brussouw, if he continues to improve and stays injury free, will be held one day IMO alongside names such as M Jones and R McCaw, those that redefined the ideal of loosie play…
always a pleasure to watch someone live up to their potential, regardless of what country they come from…
5 Jul 2009, 15:58 pm
#279 Bul-a-Bhloo: Dit IS n Kompliment wat ek Groot waardeer.Baie dankie.
5 Jul 2009, 16:00 pm
#281 poppa69: Yes, that is the nice thing about rugby – you always respect a good player, irrespective of where he comes from.
We have good Loosies in SA – but props and locks are becoming a huge problem. We are very thin there…
5 Jul 2009, 16:01 pm
#264 Irish Devil:
very nice of you irish and same to you in the 6N
5 Jul 2009, 16:01 pm
#281 poppa69: I think theres too much provincialism when it comes to the Boks… seems most want players from their union there, rather then the most capable.. whereas IMO in NZ, generally the best man for the job is selected… and from schoolboy to provincial to S14 sides, everything feeds into the ABs, from my observations this is not the same as SA, though correct me if Im wrong…
5 Jul 2009, 16:03 pm
Waars bokbal? Innie pampoenland?
5 Jul 2009, 16:04 pm
#274 bok_bal:
net soos ons groot prestasie in di 3N in 2006 en 2007 – Jake het die 2 jare ’06 en ’07 gespeel 10 gewen 3 – 30% success, en intussen was daar n 0-49 en n 26-45 (by Loftus nogal) teen Australia en NZ
die mense hier is koploos, hulle dink die span moet net op die veld draf en dan is hulle onmiddelik wenners, niks van die soort, die WB was teen Tonga, Fiji, Argentina en Engeland geeis, nemand hoer as 6de rang, en net daarna het Jake verloor teen Wallis op Cardiff wie nie eers die quart eindronde gehaal het. Die gedagtes hier is ongelooflik, die span is glad nie a wereld oorheersende span wieookal die coach sal wees.
5 Jul 2009, 16:04 pm
#285 poppa69:
It’s’ true, but I think where that comes in is with the Currie Cup. South Africans love the Currie Cup. It’s war for us more than any other country in the world.
This only proved when we refused to put aside the Currie Cup with the Super 15 extension – whereas NZ and AUS had no quibble.
But it’s true. It used to be much worse – believe me!
5 Jul 2009, 16:05 pm
#283 LondonBul: yep… just as we are short on halfbacks, no. 10s, also our locking stocks are not flash either, and in Afoa and Tialata we have the NZ equivalent of donut dunning and the Aussie powderpuff scrum of a few years ago…
seriously hoping crockett, franks and the two from the highlanders really start to improve… or Haymen decides to be homesick, but needs to be back this year…
5 Jul 2009, 16:06 pm
#287 skopskiet:
Skoppie, moet nou nie kak praat nie. Ons het vir Wallis gebliksem. Gan kyk bietjie.
Ons het teen die Barbarians verloor met Jake wat 12 veranderings aan die span gemaak het. Soos gister.
5 Jul 2009, 16:07 pm
#288 WilladieLeeu:
I think that also had a lot to do with TV rights that had already been signed in SA for the Currie cup.
5 Jul 2009, 16:09 pm
#288 WilladieLeeu: appreciate that with the CC… we used to have the same sort of pride in NZ with the NPC, but that has been destroyed by short sighted administrators and the almighty dollar chasers…
rugby is losing its soul!
5 Jul 2009, 16:10 pm
#279 Bul-a-Bhloo: Hy is vannie Min hier rond van wie ek enigeIets kan Leer van Wat ek Nodig het.Vir Wat is jy Hier.
5 Jul 2009, 16:11 pm
#291 NZINCHINA:
Maybe, but the biggest crowd attendace in SA (including internationals) was a Currie Cup final between the Bulls and the Cheetahs. We are fanatical about the Currie Cup. This is what SA rugby is all about.
5 Jul 2009, 16:12 pm
#291 NZINCHINA: Yes and no. The tradition and strength of the Currie Cup is known to be vitally important to Sa rugby.
Hope the kiwis realise this about the NPC or Air NZ cup now… TJ mentioned it the other night on re-union, that perhaps the kiwis should take a leaf out of the SAffas book on the importance of the respective championships
5 Jul 2009, 16:12 pm
#292 poppa69:
at least you only have money issues. We have money, politics and transformation.
But I love this game.
5 Jul 2009, 16:13 pm
#275 WilladieLeeu:
Alberts and Juan Smith could stand in at 2nd row quite comfortably which would give space to our true back row proponents like Brussow, Potgieter and Vermeulen to manage the loose play with Spies off bench.
This is how I would run the greater squad team going forward from now almost immediately
FB – F.Steyn / Kirchner
Wings – Habana / Jpp / Basson / Fourie
Centers – JdV / Jacobs / Fourie / WO
FH – Pienaar / M.Steyn
SH – FdP / Adams / Hougard / Vermaak
8th Man – Vermeulen / Spies / Potgieter
Flanks – Brussow / Smith / Potgieter / Deysel / (Stegman)
Locks – Matfield / Botha / Bekker / Sykes / Steenkamp (Alberts / Smith)
Props – VdMerwe / Kruger / Beast / Smit / Steenkamp
Hookers – du Plessis / Liebenberg / Chili / Kuun
Captain for now J.Smith – future D.Potgieter
5 Jul 2009, 16:15 pm
#297 skopskiet: i love it Skop, your own agenda showing through with your selections etc.
Hating everything to do with Jake I see.
5 Jul 2009, 16:17 pm
#290 WilladieLeeu:
Kyk die prestasie op 2007 na die wereldbeker op Millenium Stadum, ons het teen Wallis verloor, Pienaar het 10 gespeel, ons het verloor, ek sal dit gaan kry vir jou en die telling hier opsit.
5 Jul 2009, 16:18 pm
#297 skopskiet:
Not bad, experience and youth. Think mostly spot-on.
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