Div rants about refs
7 Sep 2009
Peter de Villiers delivered a scathing criticism of the officials and is concerned by their body language when awarding decisions against the Springboks.
The Bok scrum has been decimated in three consecutive matches by the Wallabies, but De Villiers preferred to focus on the refereeing. After the Test in Perth, the Bok coach wrote a letter to IRB referee boss Paddy O’Brien regarding Bryce Lawrence’s interpretations.
O’Brien backed his fellow Kiwi, saying that was the best refereeing performance in the Tri-Nations.
De Villiers said there is now no point in asking for feedback, as the referees and assistant referees don’t stick to what was set out.
‘I believe it’s a complete waste of time,’ said De Villiers. ‘It doesn’t matter if we ask for an explanation of the scrum rules. The problem is pointed out but it is not officiated properly by the referee and the other officials on the field.’
De Villiers maintains the Boks are still the benchmark that other countries measure themselves by, but claimed their jealousy at the Boks’ success was the reason for what he deems as questionable decisions.
‘People don’t want to see other teams being successful. That is my biggest problem at the moment. We can’t go public about certain things because we don’t have all the evidence, but the body language of certain officials when things went against us in that game made us worry,’ he said.
‘The officials were so happy when decisions went against us on the day. I am talking about the number one rugby team in the world. Shouldn’t they really get the other guys to that level?
‘Or do they want to break things down so that the game can become mediocre and everyone has a chance to win it. We don’t want to dwell on that point, but if that is the case, then I feel I am wasting my time by talking to them. I will then have to reconsider talking to them.’
De Villiers emphasised that he would not be asking for clarification from O’Brien on the decisions. When asked whether he would send him another email, De Villiers responded:
‘I believe life within your own country is sometimes a burden because you have to face it every day but when you go outside your borders, you see that it is actually worse.’
392 Comments
7 Sep 2009, 17:31 pm
Where did they find this clown?
7 Sep 2009, 17:34 pm
Here we go again.
7 Sep 2009, 17:37 pm
Does this fool really think the officals were happy, the Bokke have been No 1 in the world for about 5 mins you would think with the shite that comes out of his mouth they had been there for the last 10 years.
7 Sep 2009, 17:38 pm
“…. because we don’t have all the evidence, but the body language of certain officials ….”
Did refs show middle finger, were gleefully grinning or what?
What about the evidence apart from the game tape? THAT mythical e-mail
7 Sep 2009, 17:39 pm
Tell them like it is Helium!!!
first the british media now the IRB , this guy doesnt take sh*t from nobody haha
7 Sep 2009, 17:43 pm
PDV….no use fighting in the press….the guys that order the ink by the barrell will crucify you….
NZINCHINA …leave those clown comments out of it….he is a great Bok coach….none of us saffas calling Henry or DEans derogatory names because we beat them….
And they have done there fair share of whinging as well…
7 Sep 2009, 17:44 pm
“We can’t go public about certain things because we don’t have all the evidence, but the body language of certain officials when things went against us in that game made us worry,”
Oh no, here come all the conspiracy theories, yet again.
Why in SA is it always the referees that are to blame when the Boks lose ? Why is it that the opposition cant win purely thru being better on the day ? Why does the author of this article make reference to Paddy and “his fellow Kiwi” ?
As for this ‘body language’, what facial expressions or body contortions did Barnes make when the TMO turned down 3 Wallaby tries ?
travel fatigue…..hotel fatigue…now its body language…
Truly pathetic. Its like the Bok Management believe the World owes them a favour and should just roll over and accept their superiority.
7 Sep 2009, 17:45 pm
#6 grant10:
C’mon mate he’s the village idiot and you know it.
7 Sep 2009, 17:45 pm
At one stage I thought to myself that the ref looked unhappy when the TMO didn’t award that try. He almost looked dissapointed to be dissallowing it.
I don’t want to be a whiner about the ref but even the Aussie commentators where saying, umm the Aussies got away with this and that, but later said it was a superb ref performance HAHAH got to love it. They forget their in the moment comments but overall bias shows through later
7 Sep 2009, 17:46 pm
Especially I like this pearl “People don’t want to see other teams being successful.”
It’s getting interesting. Then it appears that people want to see their own team success, right? Isn’t basically PDV asking for South African refs in Boks Tests without directly calling spade a spade?
On the other hand, why “the other teams” in this context applies to the Boks exclusively?
And finally, are referees obligation to see “the other teams” being successful? I thought their only obligation is to referee.
7 Sep 2009, 17:46 pm
The light finally came on for Div: It is a waste of time to speak to officials. Instead spend your time and effort improving the Bok scrum, selecting players in positions they want to play/are familiar with, coming up with a plan B, etc.
7 Sep 2009, 17:48 pm
The Aussies played well and deserved to win but the Aussies did get away with quite a bit at the breakdown. Falling on teh wrong side etc continuosly.
7 Sep 2009, 17:48 pm
#8 NZINCHINA: No mate…he aint no idiot…just has to learn to keep his mouth shut ….sadly he has failed ….again.
7 Sep 2009, 17:49 pm
#9 Mike H: Englishman looked dissapointed to disallow Aussie try? sounds a bit weird to me.
7 Sep 2009, 17:52 pm
You know there’s an element of truth in what Div is saying but ja go on and deny it…
My question is simple what is the role of the touch judge?
Both touch judges are international refs but they seem only content to watch whether the ball or the players foot was in touch etc.
Does the IRB allow for their roles to be extended further e.g raising the flag to alert the ref to illegal tactics at the line out or alerting the refs to obstructive running, offsides, sealing off the ball, taking out the fetcher before he even gets to the ball, collapsing the maul etc.
Are they there only for checking whether the ball is in play or do they have a bigger role?
7 Sep 2009, 17:52 pm
#13 grant10: Sad to see such a man at the helm of the very good team and rugby powerhouse who is equally sour and repulsive no matter whether his team wins or lose.
7 Sep 2009, 17:52 pm
I remember one NZ commentator during the S14 in the Blues vs Sharks game bemoaning a forward pass which wasn’t picked up by the ref or his touch judges…his words “what on earth is the touch judge doing there? they might as well put cadboard cut outs on both sides”
Have to say I feel the same way.
7 Sep 2009, 17:53 pm
he may be right …. but bitching like this after a defeat is pointless and makes it look like being a sore loser.
lets win in hamilton and then make the same complaint … eh ….
7 Sep 2009, 17:53 pm
he tried the official channels and was told “it was the best reffing performance of the 3n so far” in reply??????
through the press ffs!!!!!!!!!!!
what do you kiwis expect him to say?
and dont get us going on your coach chaps. he wants the rules changed after losing because its “boring”
you have got to be fukking kidding me.
anyways, noce to have you all back here after a bok loss. keo is probably loving it as it drives up revenue.
7 Sep 2009, 17:54 pm
#13 grant10:
So you agree with what he said then?
7 Sep 2009, 17:54 pm
I think the journalists doing the interviews lure coaches into some of these outbursts. This stuff sells papers
But yes PDV does really fall into the trap hook line and sinker. Jake put his foot in it from time to time as well. (I’m a huge Jake fan and happy to support PDV as well as overall he is making the right decisions in my view)
7 Sep 2009, 17:55 pm
#16 Nils: lovely to have you back nils
i am sure you AB fans are hoping that after this weekend you can stop living vicariously off the Aussies results eh?
7 Sep 2009, 17:56 pm
#22 rangerman:
“vicariously” – a dangerously long word for this forum …
7 Sep 2009, 17:57 pm
Always the referees’ fault!! Damn, I was a referee for 15 seasons in WP, one of the toughest places to referee, and we always got the blame. We had to be careful in the tone which we used, our body language, as well as the manner in which we refereed certain areas of the game. Bottom line, Smit is NOT a tight-head, there will always be problems here!! We did not pitch up for the game, or we were too cocky, end of the day we were beaten by a team which played better on the day, accept it!!
7 Sep 2009, 17:58 pm
#20 NZINCHINA: i agree that it made no difference for him to consult paddy.
he got no clarity, just a press statement calling the reffing display “the most accurate yet”.
he hadnt taken a swipe at bryce lawrence, just asked for clarity from the guy who sets the bar on how laws are interpreted.
surely, as coach of the no.1 side in the world, he is entitled to do that?
7 Sep 2009, 17:58 pm
#19 rangerman:
A week is a long time in footy aye Ranger?
7 Sep 2009, 17:59 pm
14. Nils :
You know Englishman have a infatuation with Aussies
Just looked that way – not saying it is.
Refs are human afterall and fallible. After the Boks home wins in SA the Aussie were moaning about the reffing preference we seemed to receive.
I guess it goes both ways.
7 Sep 2009, 18:02 pm
#23 redrum:
i have no idea where i came up with that one lmao!
ok, enough fighting.
have a cool evening aussies (deserved winners), kiwis and my saffa brothers and sisters.
but most of all, stay cool PDivvy and our brave Bok warriors, far from home and in hostile territory, our thoughts are with you as you prepare to take on the vicious black-clad hordes from the frozen southlands.
BOKKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
7 Sep 2009, 18:02 pm
#14 Nils:
Dont forget, until now it was an ‘Australasian Conspiracy’. And how they loved to mock the Kiwis about Barnes.
Now that this widely assumed theory has been shot out of the water, its that ‘people….outside (SA) borders’ dont want to see them being successful, so the net is being slowly widened to catch everyone.
Dont worry, they obviously have loads of evidence too but – just for now – they cant “go public” because there are higher powers in force.
Its like reading a Philip Pullman novel (‘Golden Compass’), and how the Magisterium threatens the true World order and only PdV knows how to save the game of rugby for the good of everyone.
Nah. The time is over for being pleasant to this moustachioed-**** and his sickening ego and paranoia-infused theories. The Aussies have done us all a favour by wiping that smug smirk off his face and his chest-beating “we want the World to start following us” arrogance.
7 Sep 2009, 18:04 pm
#26 NZINCHINA: yup, the aussies and kiwis seem to have forgotten about changing the rules
well, the aussies at least.
GH still needs another week to make up his mind
keep well man!
7 Sep 2009, 18:10 pm
30. rangerman :
Love it
and so true
7 Sep 2009, 18:18 pm
These bloody Aussies, if it’s not our 800m woman athlete it’s something else……..
7 Sep 2009, 18:20 pm
32. Staal :
So true
7 Sep 2009, 18:21 pm
ek weet nie hoe om n tong innie kies icon te maakie….
7 Sep 2009, 18:23 pm
#29 BlackPanther: Remind me why are you on this blog again?
7 Sep 2009, 18:23 pm
I remember back to the days when it was our first Cricket World Cup after isolation and the Aussie’s had some slogan “3rd World Country, 3rd World Players”.
They really love to hate us.
If we weren’t the biggest contributors to the SANSAR TV deal there would be no Tri-nations only some Aus, NZ, Islanders and Japan tournament.
7 Sep 2009, 18:26 pm
How many times have the Aussies called for us to be kicked out of the 3nations
7 Sep 2009, 18:29 pm
AAAHH
Just got the blood up enough to blog and then in an instant lost the urge. Anyhow what the f… let me go again. Well done to the teenage/youngster side that did us on the weekend.
Started as always in the front row. We got shoved up our arses. We were ball gazing while the aussies climbed in (albeit illegally at times and got away with it) and secured possession and played with zeal and gusto.
Hopefully our arrogant attitude was well and truly shoved up our back….. and we will be a lot hungrier come this weekend. Well done Aussies.
7 Sep 2009, 18:30 pm
#36 Mike H:
You sound just like PDV, we all have to follow the Bokke now, we are all jealous of the Bokke, all officials are basically cheating when the Bokke lose a test and now you without the Bokke the rest of us would have nothing,so in summary the Bokke are the best thing since sliced bread and without them we are all farked?
7 Sep 2009, 18:36 pm
#39 NZINCHINA: back again.
nah, why dont you just change the rules?
7 Sep 2009, 18:38 pm
#35 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke:
Presumably you think its fine then to point fingers at referees and allude to officials “being happy” when TMO replays go against them as if everyone has signed off on some secret Get the Japies email ?
Go on other threads here and you will see Ive happily named some of your players as the ‘Worlds Best’ (today in fact, Bismarck) and have previously, repeatedly, praised the performance of your team. Esp after Perth where the 1stH was sublime and “near perfect rugby”. I dont say those things just in hope in being invited to some Springbok Brethren with a secret handshake. That would be shallow. Read Big Hit if you need that.
But this whole paranoia that PdV is going on about, and on and on, is completely unacceptable. Why should the Aussies awesome performance in Brisbane have some slight cast on it by the direct inference that in some ways the referees are disappointed by certain TMO decisions ? That everyone needs to buy in to this premise that the Boks are ‘no1′ ?
Why do you come on to this blog, just to read stuff you want to hear, to be flattered ? Be weary of strangers bearing gifts.
7 Sep 2009, 18:42 pm
39. NZINCHINA :
When did I ever say any of that – you can’t deny they called for us to be kicked out of the 3 nations or that the Aussies had that slogan.
I definitely don’t think the bokke are the best thing since sliced bread. I think they are a good team.
I think they are the best team SA has had since isolation, apart from maybe the record equalling team under Mallet. I don’t remember it all that well anymore.
I never ever said anything about the world following us. Don’t care if they do or don’t. Its just nice to have a team we can be proud of. Yes last weekend we got beaten but that happens. Aussies outplayed us. Never said we were invincible just a really good team and one loss doesn’t change that.
7 Sep 2009, 18:46 pm
41. BlackPanther :
You have valid points. The refs have a really tough job.
It is just not nice when things go against you.
The Aussie writers had a go at the NH refs after our home wins. It’s swings and round abouts. Everyone likes a bit of a ^&%$% now and then. Not sure coaches should make such blatent attacks though, he might get a fine for this.
7 Sep 2009, 18:48 pm
We have got to learn to play the referee.
We are an experienced team now and there should be no exuses when it come to the ref. Many of his decisions were highly suspect, however we should have picked up this and used it our advantage as did the clever Australian’s.
7 Sep 2009, 19:00 pm
#43 Mike H:
Of course its not nice when things go against you. But PdV is clearly suggesting that everyone is out to get the Boks. WTF does he mean by “cant go public on certain things” ?!
I dont recall either NZ or Aus making these inferences when they were penalised off the park in all SA home matches ? No, all we heard was that the ABs & Wallabies were rightly punished for their cheating in the face of a clearly superior team.
What would PdV have said if Matfield had been YCed for kicking out at a ball that was clearly out of the ruck, like Isaac Ross was in Durban ? Its just ridiculous to make these iferences of hidden agendas by referees – the TMO decided against 3 tries and, yet, somehow PdV is suggesting foul play.
Sorry, this is just unacceptable. I didnt hear 1 peep out of Henry or Deans when they were getting nailed in SA. Its merely a sad continuation of the paranoia that laid the JUSTICE egg.
7 Sep 2009, 19:04 pm
#20 NZINCHINA: Not the point….dont call him a village idiot.
7 Sep 2009, 19:13 pm
It looks like Jake the Great White was right again. What did he say before the Boks left SA? He said. Wait here it comes again. “The Boks can expect much more penalties against them away from home. Dont ask me why but it is just the way it is”
And I believe refers to all the teams that play away games. So yes the ref was kak but so can the Ausies and the ABs argue as well when the played in the Republic. P Divvy has just made it a bit more difficult for the Boks coming this Saturday.
Do the wise thing. It took Jake the Great a few seasons to learn this. Keep your head down and control what you can control and **** the rest.
7 Sep 2009, 19:25 pm
Don’t mess with Bam Bam De Villiers.
lol, he loves to have a go at the refs, so much for cowboys don’t cry.
7 Sep 2009, 19:29 pm
Oh f#$k here we go again. Why doesn’t he just hand the IRB a gun?
7 Sep 2009, 19:33 pm
#49 rich1:
i think he likes to keep everyone on their toes
7 Sep 2009, 19:37 pm
#50 cab:
I think he should have kept his mouth shut. Just congratulate the Aussies, get back to work and play better next week. Focus on winning the trinations, now we have a sideshow. It makes us look no better than the whinging Lions
7 Sep 2009, 19:39 pm
#1 NZINCHINA: You sour grapes cause we battered you like Fush & chups…..keep you delusional comments to yourself…
7 Sep 2009, 19:39 pm
Tell them PdV. That Barnes on Saturday was pure rubbish. Should stick to reffing club rugby in the North.
7 Sep 2009, 19:41 pm
#8 NZINCHINA: why, cause you battered Fush & Chups….looser
7 Sep 2009, 19:43 pm
Who is the ref for this Saturday? Anyone know?
7 Sep 2009, 19:43 pm
#13 grant10: Why should he, we not bottom of the log…..
7 Sep 2009, 19:45 pm
#50 cab: I think it’s funny, it keeps the heat on Paddy O’Brien who services NZ/Aus’s every whim and stood side by side with them on the much disliked ELVs, even changing interpretations of laws on their behalf trying to get them through the backdoor. They won’t even let the Boks maul anymore since Henry/Hansen had a word in his ear after the first test in SA. So yeah, keep the heat on the real puppet Div, let him away with nothing.
7 Sep 2009, 19:48 pm
#57 Big Hit:
yes more interesting comments on the apparent ANZAC bias on world rugby from an external neutral source.
actually that maul must be used more, i think they can really do over both oz and nz using that more and with more control.
7 Sep 2009, 19:49 pm
De Villiers is not except from the idiosyncracies of the international coach fraternity.
Henry was moaning about the refs/playing style of Boks a few weeks back
Deans moaned about some of the decisions in SA and as well as the test in Perth
Ian McGeechan and his Lions staff moaned from pillar to high post in the most despicable of ways never witnessed before in rugby.
Oz in the past have repeatedly moaned in the week leading up to test and advertently or inadvertently influenced the decision/flow of the game.
Too often SA has kept quiet to their detriment.
Gamesmanship
7 Sep 2009, 19:49 pm
exempt
7 Sep 2009, 19:50 pm
#54 Rugbystud:
Owens, the Taff. The same one who reffed NZ vs SA in Durban.
7 Sep 2009, 19:53 pm
#35 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke:
There you go. Read Big Hit at #57, he’ll tell you everything you want to hear. He’s good at that.
7 Sep 2009, 19:54 pm
#59 mshiniwami:
lol, tell you what between him and **** muir, those two must have worked themselves into an absolute frenzy after sat. dicky can also get very irate with the refs. i actually think barnes is ultimately going to be a good ref, he will learn, got a few things on sat imo, but oz deserved their win.
it seems gamesmanship has become very important, or as the aussies like to call it, controlling the ref, and they do it very well, and smit actually does it extremely well – i dont know if i like it but i think it is quite important.
7 Sep 2009, 19:54 pm
At least Paddy O’Brien is consistent.
He was a decidedly mediocre ref in his day and is maintaining that delivery.
7 Sep 2009, 19:56 pm
ITs TRUE: have a look at how dissapointed Wayne Barnes looks when Giteaus try is disallowed?
pretty shameful really…
7 Sep 2009, 19:56 pm
#62 BlackPanther:
BP, what is wrong with a bit of impartial comment?
Besides was it not the kiwi supporters who nearly destroyed young barnesey’s career before it even took off?
7 Sep 2009, 19:58 pm
#59 mshiniwami:
“Too often SA has kept quiet to their detriment”
Youre a lost cause.
What do you plan on doing next, attacking the referee ? arm bands ? emails ?
The Boks lost 1 Test. Just 1. They were outplayed. That is all that happened. Theyll still win the damn trophy. Why does everything need to conspiring against you the very first time you hit a small bump in the road ?
7 Sep 2009, 19:59 pm
#63 cab:
Its become part and parcell of pro rugby
cant say I like it but if it needs to be done then so be it.
Tired of this hollier-than-thou attitude we always take in that regard then comes back to bite us in the ***.
Take em on
7 Sep 2009, 20:00 pm
yes oz outplayed us once in a deadrubber, but Boks outplayed them twice. series won 2-1 vs oz in 2009.
7 Sep 2009, 20:01 pm
#58 cab: happy to oblige
Owens wouldn’t let them maul last time so it’s pretty much a dead tactic for the Boks in Hamilton. He is however pretty tight on ruck infringements where Barnes is more lax so that should suit a forward orientated gameplan.
#59 mshiniwami: very true, it only seems to be a problem for some when Div has his say. Perhaps it’s because he gets straight to the point rather than muttering around the issue in suggestive tones like the others. Says what he thinks, can’t fault him for that.
7 Sep 2009, 20:04 pm
#66 cab:
impartial ?
BH ?!!!!
come on.
BH has gleefully waved Wayne Barnes under our nose for 2 years. Lets see how he balances the desire to keep that up his sleeve whilst simultaneously agreeing with your complaints about the same ref at the same time as maintaining his English/supporting-Barnes appearances.
Its called comprimising yourself. And its a tricky one to back out of that corner.
We’re talking a SA vs Aus match and, like it or not, Im most certainly ‘impartial’ on that count too.
7 Sep 2009, 20:06 pm
#71 BlackPanther:
but are you really impartial against SA, afterall we are No 1?
I dont think the kiwis like that, they’d prefer to make out that the standard of world rugby is not very good generally at the moment.
7 Sep 2009, 20:06 pm
#67 BlackPanther:
You have taken me out of context so rather keep quiet or retrace where my stance/comment arises from
Where in my posts do I mention that we lost Saturday’s test due to reffing? none
OZ pressured us from the first minutes,some calls where dubious yes but we didnt play enough to deserve to win that game.
Possession,territory belonged to OZ,we were tackling for 70% of the game.Didnt get enough chances in the red zone,had no mometum even though score was close until 65 min out.
My response is to the notion that De Villiers is speaking out of turn/giving excuses/moaning etc..Im disputing that claim as its indicative of all the international coaches of late.
SA is not exempt neither should they take a step back neither.More often than not it influences games.Whether one likes to admit it or not.
7 Sep 2009, 20:11 pm
i wonder why the kiwis get so up in arms when the boks or their coach speak their minds?
honestly, the only conclusion i can draw is that it affects them.
how? i ask myself.
i am going to reflect on it.
7 Sep 2009, 20:14 pm
#73 mshiniwami: i think you have hit the nail on the head.
GH moans about the rules.
robbie deans calls our play boring and claims the boks played no rugby at the 2007 world cup.
both moan about the maul.
but PdV is clearly an idiot in their world.
who are these people kidding?
7 Sep 2009, 20:16 pm
We can do better (than P-Div). Can Bakkies’ dad coach?
7 Sep 2009, 20:19 pm
the lack of trust in the sanzar partnership is quite sad really.
imagine if mauritius or madagascar played rugby?
it would really make things a lot easier.
but kenya are on the up. we should help them.
i am sure the extra week or two on african soil will be of no consequence to our brave kiwi and aussie warriors.
there is probably more to do in nairobi than in hamilton too.
7 Sep 2009, 20:20 pm
I used to think of the Kiwis as warriors.
Not anymore. Now I regard them as worriors.
7 Sep 2009, 20:22 pm
#77 rangerman:
This is scary.
I did not see your post 77 and posted 78 independently.
Can I have my name back please?
7 Sep 2009, 20:24 pm
#75 rangerman: I don’t care how boring we play. Just want to see us winning. So really don’t care who thinks what.
Play 10 man rugby this Saturday and win it. They find it hard to play us when we are doing that.
Also find a place for Frans Steyn to start. Wasted on the bench. Not so sure about Odwa on the wing. Missed JPP on Sat.
7 Sep 2009, 20:25 pm
#74 rangerman:
Hey Ranger
I’ll tell you why they react that way..
Because theyve always played the BIG BROTHER role to SA in the last 10 yrs or so.Theyve always had an acrimonious relationship with OZ as neighbours and who in the last 10 yrs have beaten them more than any other nation or threatened their dominance.
Boks have always like acceptance from NZ- as they are seen as the custodians of pantheon level/standards of the sport..especially modern day rugby.
Now the Boks seem not to be apologetic and want to claim supremacy at all levels by all means necessary..
And for the first time…dont have to adhere to anyone’s opinion/standards as for the time being at least are the trend setters. One has heard countless times P Div/Smit and a number of the other Boks and administration mention this.
This is not indicative of the landscape one especially NZ has been used to.Wheels of change.
Whether SA is good enough to maintain such standards and continue to be trend setters is the ultimate test.
World Champions,S14 Champs,7 Sevens Champs,Lions series winners,Tri nations log leaders…ALL SA
This is not how things are “supposed to be”…right?On top of that SA seems to have confidence/swag/determination and not an apologetic attitude about them
7 Sep 2009, 20:31 pm
#81 mshiniwami:
You really know where you stand with a “friend” when you prosper.
If he becomes uncomfortable with your success you know he was never sincere in the 1st place.
Wayne Barnes brought rugby union in disrepute with the way he officiated that game on Saturday. If there was any doubt before, then surely there is consensus now that he is an embarrassment to the game. He should do a “Willie Roos”
7 Sep 2009, 20:33 pm
Seriously….from the beginning of this Sanzar thing i said to my mate….this is bad news…..SA will always be treated as the third wheel….the less welcome guest at the dinner table…..Geographically it is so obvious we the outsiders….and no matter how we wanna all be big mates, etc we are dominated by simple maths….2 votes to 1….
Same as this Southern Kings thing….wont happen…Melbourne here we come…..
Play Rri nations every 2 nd year….lkets get some thing different going….to be honest i am a bit bored cosying upo to these kissing cousins…..they dont like us….thats the deal….
7 Sep 2009, 20:34 pm
PdV, expert body-language reader. Refs beware!
7 Sep 2009, 20:35 pm
Travel fatigue, “hotel fatigue”, body language…
And Smitty says the Boks don’t grizzle. Well, their barmy ANC-supporting “coach” makes up for that in spades, doesn’t he?
Snorre is single-handedly bringing the game into disrepute.
His country must be cringing with embarrassment. The rest of the world is rolling on the floor, laughing. Not with him; at him.
7 Sep 2009, 20:35 pm
Bloody kiwis calling PDV a village idiot……that gets my blood boiling i tell you…..
Moer hulle Bokke!!
7 Sep 2009, 20:36 pm
#76 haribaldi:
how can you improve on perfection?
i pity the fool who tries to muzzle bam bam de villiers, one two he’s in and he’s out, sting like a butterfly float like a bee…
7 Sep 2009, 20:42 pm
#87 cab: Last paragraph brilliant
Had a damn good laugh there.
7 Sep 2009, 20:45 pm
#85 TheTackler:
What he has done is raised the world’s awareness to those aspects.
Some things he mentioned in conversation, someone asked and he merely explained politely.
Remember balsak we dont want the refs to favour us, we only want a fair contest.
The Aussies were better on Sat, but Barnes’ blatant mistakes just gave them the added advantage. Side entry at ruck and maul stages and many other very deliberate things they did.
The ar$ehole even said that he was happy with the Aussie 9′s “try”
7 Sep 2009, 20:46 pm
#86 grant10: The only way is to keep winning. That will keep them quit. Don’t think they like the Boks dominating this year.
7 Sep 2009, 20:46 pm
#79 Sheriff:
howziiiiiiiiiiit!!!
#80 Puma: too true. frans must start. preferably on the wing imo. let him chase, jump and bash all day long.
#81 mshiniwami: totally agree mshini.
it seems like the “gracious winners” role is something they have got down pat. they struggle with the gracious losers tag.
heres hoping PDivvy and the BOKKE! force them to get better at it
7 Sep 2009, 20:49 pm
#89 Sheriff: balsak
i just had a great laugh man, thanks!
7 Sep 2009, 20:49 pm
Can anyone point me to a more reputable source for this story? Can’t find it being run anywhere else. Not saying it didn’t happen – I just want to flash it around a few forums but don’t really want to cite a blog as my source.
7 Sep 2009, 20:50 pm
#90 Puma: meant quiet
7 Sep 2009, 20:53 pm
#91 rangerman: Ranger I have been screaming my lungs out about that. PLAY FRANS ON THE WING. Imagine if they were facing him there instead of Odwa. Huge difference mate. I know Odwa is a good player bug Fransie is just so strong to bring down and when he tackles they drop like a bomb
Also remember he has that big boot to kick too. Use him instead of leaving such talent on the bench. We have to win this week. Play your best that are there.
7 Sep 2009, 20:53 pm
#95 Puma: bug meant but
7 Sep 2009, 20:53 pm
only change i would make is F steyn at 15 for Ruan…..Ruan looks lost and confused…
The sharks gonna have to nurse tjhat oke back to form…..he is not a happy camper….i reckon the ist team that says we promise to play you at 9 or 10….Ruan gone !
7 Sep 2009, 20:54 pm
Pdv and J. Smit better zip it and find some props.
7 Sep 2009, 20:56 pm
#95 Puma: Then play Odwa at 15…..becauseRuan is a goner….confidence levels flat as a pannekoek….klaar gelag…..if he isnt at 10….leave him on bench….
7 Sep 2009, 20:56 pm
#95 Puma: i think frans will suit a return to the box kick gameplan.
7 Sep 2009, 20:58 pm
dammit ….now Newman out for 6 months….WP should keep JDV till end of CC…now we in kak again….both inside centres gone…..
7 Sep 2009, 20:59 pm
Pienaar should never have been taken out of Fh that was the big mistake. Now we lose on both fronts. Weak fb and a weak fh. M. Steyn to Fb or inside center, F. Steyn to fb, wing or bench or center, or Fourie to wing.
7 Sep 2009, 20:59 pm
ok, gotta go finish off cooking my fresh shad.
tjorts julle.
7 Sep 2009, 21:00 pm
#100 rangerman: He will. Jeez I would start him for sure. Just think he will be left on the bench and only brought on in the last 10min when he nothing much can be done. Will be a mistake I think. Especially if there is a wet ground to play on and that is very possible in Hamilton.
7 Sep 2009, 21:00 pm
#92 rangerman:
7 Sep 2009, 21:01 pm
#103 rangerman: Making us hungry again Ranger. Enjoy.
7 Sep 2009, 21:02 pm
#101 grant10:
Not that I worry too much about that. Its good news for Sharkies..haha.
7 Sep 2009, 21:03 pm
#22 rangerman: nice to see you, too, Rangerman.
At this very moment we certainly are thanking the Aussies, however who knows maybe you folks will be hoping to get similar Aussie favour next week.
August here was the last month of the summer and I took some deserved week off. Plus NZ were playing +/- ****…. nice to have DC back though.
Enjoy the end of the winter, mate.
we are slowly getting into golden autumn.
7 Sep 2009, 21:05 pm
That is the huge illness in our rugby…playing okes out of position…..i go into a nervous spasm when i hear coaches saying …..’we had to accomodate Ruan’ and Frans and John, etc, etc…..
Recipe for disaster…player doesent feel secure….Ruan still today says he is a versatile scrumhalf!!!!
No….at the highest level….no jack of all trades for me….if you not a master of your trade….you not gonna cut the mustard.
Very rare that i have seen these players really step up in new positions at the highest level.
Ruan at 15 has been a disaster.
7 Sep 2009, 21:06 pm
#108 Nils: We in Spring and I already have my air-con on! Feels more like summer and we have given the spring a miss..lol.
7 Sep 2009, 21:08 pm
#109 grant10: Frans was far better at FB. Pity he is leaving probably by the time next year came he would have been well settled in that position. Now its up for grabs again.
7 Sep 2009, 21:08 pm
#107 Puma: ja….wp just looking good…and i thought Newman looked slick on sat….this is hectic news….and knowing WP we will play Willem Wikkelspies at 10 and shunt P Grant back to 12 again…
7 Sep 2009, 21:09 pm
lol, i think old Bam Bam gives SA rugby nightmares everytime he opens his mouth.
he is bladdy funny though. someone’s gotta try and have a word in his ear tho.
7 Sep 2009, 21:09 pm
#112 grant10: Ja, was just kidding there. Not nice when players get injured.
7 Sep 2009, 21:10 pm
#27 Mike H: “Englishman have a infatuation with Aussies”
Damn right and after the Ashes even more!
7 Sep 2009, 21:10 pm
#111 Puma: Kirchner….go with a specialist….15 is all about experience under the high ball and a positional sense which comes with experience….not that easy to go play there from flyhalf….completely different .
7 Sep 2009, 21:11 pm
Cheers all out of here now. Lots of sleep to catch up on after having Scots here for 5 weeks. Left today. So early night for me.
7 Sep 2009, 21:12 pm
#112 grant10:
Hi,
It was that “no arms” tackle from Zane that did Morgan. OK, lets say, not a lot of arms into that tackle
I see Jack is also playing his last match, Liebenberg still injured, Wikkelspies still dodgy……,
At least it seems as if Kritzinger is just about ready to play again. And Nakalavuki (??)
They must not stuff it up now. We need a nice easy run in to the semi’s, I do not want to stress again.
Boks are in trouble imo, whatever they do.
I do not like the “body language” comment from Div a bit.
They should shut up and play.
7 Sep 2009, 21:12 pm
#113 cab: yes….it is kinda silly…cant win these battles in the press……ridicule and acrimony will be the order of the day now….Sat will be a war!!
7 Sep 2009, 21:13 pm
#116 grant10: He will probably play there next year. Was not that great in the E. Boks or the last game against the Lions but probably needs time there at that level.
I would have kept Frans Steyn playing there. He was doing fine. Especially with the kick-and-chase we had 3 good kickers in FdP, M. Steyn and Frans at the back.
Anyhow out of here now Grant. Early night for me. Cheers.
7 Sep 2009, 21:15 pm
#118 Robzim: Yes….we must get 1 st spot….beat the lions or cheetahs in the semi …and watch the sharks and bulls pummell each other half to death in the other semi….
Next week we turn the knife at New;lands and Luke raises the CC….
AI…if only it were that simple….ja…that no arms Kirchner tackle did it!!
7 Sep 2009, 21:17 pm
#120 Puma: Cheers Puma
7 Sep 2009, 21:17 pm
u gotta love the DIV he just subliminally told the IRB chief ref to f*** off and he wouldnt bother to consult the refs before matches , absolute classic haha
he will surely go down in world history as the man who stood up to the british press , the wallabies,kiwis,IRB ,BIL and gave them all the finger then led his team to the top of the world rankings against all odds
go bOKKKKEE!!!!!
7 Sep 2009, 21:17 pm
#121 grant10:
I was quite impressed by Burton Francis – wonder whether Rassie has anything left in the bank.
7 Sep 2009, 21:18 pm
#113 cab:
A common sense dictates that any reservations, disagreements and protests to Mr. O’Brien should be made in a discrete manner and by a reputable SA Representative, Andre’ Watson comes to mind
Unleashing Mr PdV against the IRB refereeing system is not so prudent, but I doubt he opened up without a permision from Hoskins?!
The Boks had their 5 out of 6 home Tests handing to them on a palte by the Test referees, no reason for us to complain in the final analysis.
7 Sep 2009, 21:19 pm
#123 mbaxman93:
The man has no fear whatsoever.
7 Sep 2009, 21:20 pm
#118 Robzim: Ja Rob….PDV must rather zip it….this sounds very much like a whinge to me….of mega proportions….and to be fair…we were drilled!!
7 Sep 2009, 21:22 pm
#124 Robzim: Yes….perhaps worth a tinkle and a cup of coffee at the Mugg n bean in Menlyn….
1 thing for sure….dont want there 2 props!!!
7 Sep 2009, 21:23 pm
#111 Puma:
F Steyn’s decision to leave was augered by the favorism of the selectors for Jantje and Kirshener at No15, it makes no rugby sense of course but that is the S African’s reality
7 Sep 2009, 21:24 pm
the Kiwis and Aussies gonna milk this for all its worth…..will perhaps galvanise the boks come sat….this not the end of the saga….more fines and disrepute charges coming i reckon…
7 Sep 2009, 21:25 pm
#128 grant10:
Yip, Those props are pussies, soft, typical Pretoria boys.
It is quite nice to have the shoe on the other foot for a change
7 Sep 2009, 21:25 pm
#128 grant10: Boet I thought Biz was going to leave the field with whiplash. Fkn popped out of the scrum like through a Volksie Windscreen.
Scary stuff.
7 Sep 2009, 21:26 pm
#129 Hondo: Having said that F Steyn always made it plain and clear he coveted the 12 or 10 jersey.
7 Sep 2009, 21:26 pm
#131 Robzim: I watched the CC highlights last night.
Wow – Province boytjies gave the Bulls scrum a pounding.
I almost thought they were Australian.
7 Sep 2009, 21:27 pm
#133 grant10: Jean had a lovely game on Saturday actually. Unfortunately no one else rocked up.
But Steyn is a great 12 as I have said before.
I was pretty disappointed with Ruan actually. So Steyn back to 15.
7 Sep 2009, 21:28 pm
PDV “standing up” to the IRB referees is a bit like a snail on the motorway standing up to a Mack truck bearing down on it.
Silly snail.
7 Sep 2009, 21:28 pm
#131 Robzim: Brock and wickus were like kids in a candy shop….damn i have never seen a bulls pack get shunted like that for many a year…proud of those wp boys….
Must not screw it up against those Bloem boys!!
7 Sep 2009, 21:29 pm
#129 Hondo:
Nope, I do not think Frans really had the number 15 spot in his mind when he signed for France.
I think he is a unwilling fullback – was aiming for 10 or 12.
7 Sep 2009, 21:29 pm
I also think Piet Snor is speaking codswallop.
Take your losses with grace. No acceptance, but win and los like a man.
I think John Smit has the character to retire with grace. 2011 is a step too far at TH.
7 Sep 2009, 21:30 pm
#132 SodaJoe: there was some ugly moments….but i reckon we get behind the boys this week….nothing can be done now….but soda…thats the ball game for Smitty i reckon…back to hooker or off into the glorious sunset….i reckon he calls it a day.
7 Sep 2009, 21:31 pm
#135 SodaJoe: JDV was the only 1 that pitched….we will be alot better this week…
7 Sep 2009, 21:33 pm
#139 SodaJoe: France 2009 is a step too far at 3 for smit!!
7 Sep 2009, 21:33 pm
#140 grant10: I am obviously behind the Boks.
I think we will better, we can’t be worse.
Smit is the best 3 on tour, which doesn’t say a lot.
Bismark is a better 2 than John now. Unfortunately teh scrum pressure kept him from supporting Brussow, so The Diamond was pretty much on his own all day against Pockock (good game) and Smith.
7 Sep 2009, 21:34 pm
#142 grant10: Well you know that you and I agree on this.
Diabolical.
7 Sep 2009, 21:34 pm
Robzim….we get Sharks or Bulls in final at least we know we will get at least parity at scrum time!!!Easy peasy!!
7 Sep 2009, 21:36 pm
#142 grant10: He’ll play the EOYT, I don’t think that’s in question.
7 Sep 2009, 21:36 pm
#118 Robzim:
lol, yeah ‘body language’ comment, very bad, he looks very parochial and biased with that one. poor bugger just wants to win, there were some tough decisions, but they have to learn to swallow it in the press, and keep pestering the refs for an explanation and go thru the formal channels.
#119 grant10:
i think sat was always going to be a battle royale, the kiwi pride cant and wont take a 3-zip battering by boks, especially their forwards and henry knows this, going to be very tough game, these poor modern gladiators carry the pride of country’s on their back, for a little oval ball, all kinda nuts
#125 Hondo:
ha ha, common sense and bam bam de villiers do not go together, he’s torn up the script and does it his own way and it seems to work most of the time. i’m pretty sure hoskins and marinos and co had no idea he was going to say this and is very very pissed off. then again, their justice4bakkies defense was just as dom, so they cant really talk.
7 Sep 2009, 21:36 pm
#78 Sheriff: “Now I regard them as worriors.”
Wot’s a “worrior” then, pilgrim?
7 Sep 2009, 21:38 pm
#143 SodaJoe: thats the problem when you getting wacked at scrum time….the whole day you on the back foot…..its tough enough as it is….at this level no place to hide…..but Smitty knows the score …he is an honorable man….he will know in his heart….like Joost said….the man in the mirrow….he never lies.
7 Sep 2009, 21:38 pm
#143 SodaJoe:
#142 grant10:
We read a lot about people saying John’s technique is not right – “he goes in too high, back not straight, feet placed incorrectly” etc and that he will improve with better coaching.
I am not sure – Gold and co cannot be that stupid and must obviously also know these things and must have showed him.
I think the man is just not made to be a good enough prop at this level and will never be.
So, it is either hooker or the stand for him.
7 Sep 2009, 21:39 pm
#146 Big Hit: Not at 3 he wont!!
7 Sep 2009, 21:40 pm
Bismark is actually half the problem he stands too upright in the scrum and Oz props who are short little battle ship toughies push our entire front row upward and out the top. Phweeet! Penalty.
Whole front row gotta go down lower and get their feet back and hit the engage much lower down Bismark especially and JS too.
Get Cobus Visagie in to fix the f’ng malady already dammit!
Decent 2nd half back up no.4 lock wouldn’t be a bad idea either.
7 Sep 2009, 21:40 pm
#133 grant10: Most of us are not aware of our own limitations
FS ditto, he is too of a ‘I, Me, Mine’ player who is too slow and lack vision of the options at 10 or 12, we saw it time and again
At 15 on the other hand he will be one of the best, anything he does there helps his team: his kicking for a long touch is great, run with the ball even better, his speed and size gets you a good momentum for a 2nd phase
He is the best defender there too.
Playing at 14 is also a viable option for FS, but for the Quota system,,
7 Sep 2009, 21:41 pm
#149 grant10:
i dont know how honorable he is or whatever, but i honestly think he actually played well on saturday, damn well, i must have been watching a different game.
7 Sep 2009, 21:43 pm
#151 grant10: if he gets through this weekend ok he will. The NZ scrum is nothing special, Franks a greenhorn at 3, Issac Ross has no power.
7 Sep 2009, 21:44 pm
#150 Robzim: Cant convert AT THIS LEVEL into a n international tighthead…..nigh bloody impossible….and more that that…unfair ask…..Smitty will know its not working….
Let me tell yoiu …if smitty digs his heels in and trys to go back to 2….Sharks camp gonna be in disarray….
Lots of promises made in the heat of the night….
May still end in tears.
7 Sep 2009, 21:44 pm
#150 Robzim: at this level technique is not an argument.
The good guys spend their whole lives building their craft and professional experience.
The experiment is a failure from a scrumming point of view. From a captaincy position maybe not. But pick your best and then your captain.
I am not a Big Vic captain fan, but he did captain the Bulls to S14 victory. So ….
7 Sep 2009, 21:44 pm
#152 skopskiet: Anton Van Zyl comes to mind and Steve Skyke got the attributes too
I watched the Bulls last Saturday, their new No4 looks good, a great prospect
7 Sep 2009, 21:46 pm
#154 cab:
Hi Cab,
No, look, John was not bad around the park
Carried the ball strongly on a few occasions
Also tried his luck with the Ref – nearly Fitzylike at times –
But in the scrums??
7 Sep 2009, 21:46 pm
#154 cab: At the very least you must have been drunk.
7 Sep 2009, 21:46 pm
#153 Hondo: certainly i agree he could be an awesome 15….also feel he was bloody great at 12 for sharks in super 14 before ruans injury and he started getting shunted….
Ja…youth is an interesting thing….wasted on the young!!
7 Sep 2009, 21:48 pm
#158 Hondo: Sykes, Fondse & Van Zyl are all good.
But Danie Rossouw is better than all of them, and he scrums like a tank too.
Issue is #1 & #3. (Skops disagree about Biz).
7 Sep 2009, 21:48 pm
#154 cab: I think he was penalised once as were BDP and Beast, but some posters just have the perception that’s it’s all down to Smit.
I don’t really understand it, nor do I understand where the rush to drop him comes from considering there are no alternatives.
7 Sep 2009, 21:49 pm
Rugby is a momentum game, one week to the next, heroes one week, zero’s the next. Coaches, captains, senior and junior players as well as supporters better learn the drill. Rest on laurels one week to the next, believe your own infatuated hype to your own arrogant egotistical peril. You think you can coast on a roller coaster wipe out tsunami, you gonna come crashing down in the white water head first.
7 Sep 2009, 21:49 pm
#72 cab:
#81 mshiniwami:
Did you see the video on nzherald.co.nz last week when GH was praising the Boks ? “the best in the World…..and rightly so” he said.
When Soaiolo was highly complimentary about SA rugby earlier this year, he was abused here for being patronising.
So even when your rivals are acknowledging the Boks achievements, openly, youre so damn paranoid that youve interpreted this as ‘they’d prefer to make out that the standard of world rugby is not very good generally at the moment.’.
PdV is so paranoid that he now sees something lurking in the shadows of a NH refs ‘body language’. And here we were lead to believe that this was solely down to this NZ-Aus conspiracy ?! Whats it to be then ?
#78 Sheriff:
You worry about your coach. He’s pointing fingers at everyone now. Please explain what he means by “We can’t go public about certain things because we don’t have all the evidence” ?
And how we are supposed to respect what he’s saying about the scrum when you only need to read a few of the very many posts here to realise that the Bok scrum is in disarray ? He knows it is, thats obvious, but he’s trying to blame the ref instead. 2 consecutive Tests now, same thing.
#83 grant10:
Oh yeah, Kiwis really would do anything to sidle up to Aussies for the sole reason of annoying Safas. Come on, you dont seriously believe that do you ?
Your team lost to a better team on the day. Not because of the ref. Not because of some shadows in the corridors of power. Credit where credit is due. GH has been busy doing just that to the Boks, why is it so hard for the Bok coach ?
Didnt Smit say “excuses are for losers” ? Who would you rather support….no-excuses Smit or full-of-excuses PdV ?
7 Sep 2009, 21:49 pm
#155 Big Hit: Franks & Woodcock are very good props. Hore on the other hand is not a very good hooker (this year).
But All Blacks will be feeling quite good.
7 Sep 2009, 21:50 pm
#157 SodaJoe:
Yip, maybe PdV must swallow his pride and admit that it is not working.
Imagine this front row going up against France during the end of the year tour
It could be a massacre
PdV needs to make the call now.
7 Sep 2009, 21:50 pm
#154 cab: Its not about how he played alone….1st and foremost his primary function is to scrum …..good heavens he was piss poor….and Beast as bloody bad…..
The tackles amnd the other stuff is great ….but the tighthead is the 1 position where the primary objective has to be to stabilise and anchor the scrum….
Perhaps Smitty got to go to loosehead ….a much easier conversion process….remember not even os du randt would try tighthead!!!!!!
7 Sep 2009, 21:51 pm
#163 Big Hit: Beast has scrummed poorly for a little while now. He appears to have been found out, and as he is still a Scrum “Baby” – he will need to up his game, and get good coaching.
7 Sep 2009, 21:53 pm
#155 Big Hit: i agree…it will be easier than aussies….but come 2011 kiwis , france, poms, aussies will all murder us at scrums….we not that dumb BH…we will fix this….despite your protesttations to keep the weak front row….dare i suggest you a RFU agent placed to keep that kak front row in place??;LOL
7 Sep 2009, 21:53 pm
#162 SodaJoe:
Jeez, you and oom Danie again. What is is with you, he is tired.
MMJ is winning me over – slowly but surely.
7 Sep 2009, 21:53 pm
#161 grant10: sure
if at 12 then they must play him at 12 at all times, the positional shuffelings does him no good
7 Sep 2009, 21:53 pm
#165 WakaNathan: Losing is losing. No matter how you cut it.
But winning & losing with good grace is the mark of a man.
Full marks John. Piet – shurrup already.
7 Sep 2009, 21:54 pm
Danie Roussouw a has been plonker got no f’ng fire left in his belly almost as softly useless as Johann Muller. Get shot of him and bring in Van Zyl or a young lion lock, anyone of the better cc players, from Bulls or Cheetahs or Wp, there are enough of them about. I prefer Van Zyl to Sykes who is still too young and string bean like Bekker, not enough meat on them bones.
7 Sep 2009, 21:55 pm
#156 grant10: the 2nd skoppie with a new tune, you sing the JS line over and over
7 Sep 2009, 21:56 pm
#171 Robzim: Boet. Bear with me. I live in fear of having Malteaser Muller in a Green jersey. Sykes, Fondse and Van Zyl. The new Bulls boy sound s good, but won’t play enough after 3N.
Oom Danie is terrific.And yesterday he was all over the park again. I like him so I watch him. Good player.
Pierre & Ruan were my big disappointments after Smit & Beast.
7 Sep 2009, 21:56 pm
#165 WakaNathan: Waka…we were fairly and squarely moered by the aussies….ni ifs or buts….taken to the cleaners, humbled amnd humiliated….what more must i say !!
7 Sep 2009, 21:56 pm
#159 Robzim:
i thought he was excpetional around the park, in fact i believe he was the best player in the Bok team, he bust a gut out there in the tightloose and he has to carry around that extra weight.
the scrums were a tough one, they often are lately with oz who have not only improved but still rely on all those sneaky tricks when they were depowered. Robinson was excpetional and he’s given everyone problems but Div and Smit were right too complain, there were times that Robinson was dropping his bind imo, smit actually had a word during the game. The bok scrum was very stable on our ball for the first 60, which is what the TH, i.e. Johns job was. I believe Os is correct, which is that JS has done well as TH, but he tends to depower in the last 20 because of all the work he gets thru in the tightloose and also his pod with bakkies being substituted and juan blowing does not help. the solution imo is to have CJ van der Linde come on in the last 20 mins.
7 Sep 2009, 21:57 pm
#169 SodaJoe:
That won’t happened while the Beast is in the Test Arena, as long as he is a fixture at the Boks’ front row he is only gonna get drilled time and again
His work rate now is less than a 3rd of what it was last year, he let the others doing the work,,,, must have spoken to Sephaka and Addi Andrews?
7 Sep 2009, 21:58 pm
#166 SodaJoe: Franks struggled to keep his end of the scrum off the floor in the SA/NZ games. He’s new on the test scene. Woodcock holds his own and that’s about it.
I agree, ABs will be confident but the game won’t be open like the Brisbane game. It will be a much tighter affair.
7 Sep 2009, 21:58 pm
#175 111BIG5: Pretty much the biggest issue to solve. And worthy of discourse.
You can always use your mouse.
7 Sep 2009, 21:59 pm
NZ has never lost a test in Hamilton. Ever.
7 Sep 2009, 21:59 pm
#179 Hondo: Don’t diss Sephaka. I would pay good money to have him on the bench ahead of Jannie Poep.
7 Sep 2009, 22:00 pm
#182 TheTackler: Eish.
7 Sep 2009, 22:00 pm
#175 111BIG5: i dig Smitty my man…just not at 3….but you keep your head firmly in the sand and believe its all ok…fine with me….
7 Sep 2009, 22:00 pm
#170 grant10: lol we lost by 40 points at home with Smit in the front row so it probably makes little difference. I have a feeling you’re right that Smit might retire at the end of the year but think it depends how he goes this weekend, if he goes well then he might stay longer because I don’t see him having too many problems up north, he didn’t last year.
7 Sep 2009, 22:01 pm
#174 skopskiet: I think there is quite a few players on that bench, in the ice box who is so rusty by now, WO , Kanko , Jannie , Chillies, who else same in a lesser degree with Danie, they can not perform at their best now . It would have been better to leave them at their provinces and fly them in if necessary.
I know you need guys to train against but they could have used other players for that purpose, maybe Brok or Blaaw…
7 Sep 2009, 22:02 pm
#173 SodaJoe:
Exactly. If only he was talking about this Test tho, it would be easily dismissed. But this whole “cant go public on certain things” absolutely screams conspiracy.
Maybe he thinks he’s rugbys version of Jose Mourinho and the way he used to taunt everyone thereby taking the pressure on his own shoulders and off those of the players ?
Hey, I heard a Safa band today – Black Jacks. Kinda proggy World music rock with African chants. Not bad. Did you see my long reply re Minneapolis music to you ? I was hoping you did. One of my very favourite bands is The Replacements, you really triggered me there.
I suppose Paddy and the IRB refs could take on a new theme song for PdV……
‘here comes the regular’.
7 Sep 2009, 22:03 pm
#176 SodaJoe:
I was also a bit disappointed in Brussow, although the odds were stacked against him (scrum going backwards, 2 fetchers playing for Aus etc)
Schalk also did not make much of an impact.
Elsom was awesome and Pocock very good.
But, as Skoppy has said somewhere above, the situation changes from game to game, maybe our boys will all be heroes again on Saturday.
7 Sep 2009, 22:03 pm
#187 111BIG5: Chili Cheerleader is in danger of putting on a mini-skirt and dancing alongside the sielines with the pretty girls.
Bloody guy needs to play. How’s he ever going to hone his craft. Stupid. Doing the kid a disservice.
7 Sep 2009, 22:03 pm
#183 SodaJoe: an amazingly skilled, capable and powerful tight head with a fitness and work ethics of an anc shop steward,,,,
7 Sep 2009, 22:04 pm
#187 111BIG5: leave brok and blaauw alone, wp heroes they are…together with Luke.
7 Sep 2009, 22:05 pm
#177 grant10:
yep, which is exactly what the Kiwis said post Bloem & Durban. No ifs or buts.
Sorry, but I think PdV has forgotten that little chat he had with is bosses about keeping his gob shut. We gave him the benefit of the doubt but he’s just making things worse, not better. Does he think making these ‘body language’ accusations is suppose to win the Boks friends or enemies ?
7 Sep 2009, 22:05 pm
#190 SodaJoe:
He plays- he gets injured
The more he plays the more sever will be the injuries
What do you suggest?
7 Sep 2009, 22:06 pm
How well is this Francois Louw flanker for WP playing!!! Hell i have a feeling this may be the year …just maybe!!!!
7 Sep 2009, 22:07 pm
#160 SodaJoe:
lol, susprising not this time, but you’d be right most others.
#163 Big Hit:
yeah, i don’t get it either.
#165 WakaNathan:
i like GH and the kiwis, but you are just as paranoid.
#168 grant10:
yes you have a point on the primary function, but lets see, give him another game or two, you cant judge these guys on 20min or make them the scapegoat. grant the scrum is a small part of the game, it is important, but its not why the Boks lost. the interesting and really soul-searching question is what happened to Brussow, in the last two games, the ozzies have been clearing him out with stunning efficiency? he is not the reason for the loss either, its the whole pack, the only one who played with the same committment was Smit and maybe Juan, the others were below their hungry best imo.
7 Sep 2009, 22:07 pm
#188 WakaNathan: Wacka – I think I responded. Westerburg is pretty much Godlike in this town. Even Mr Finn would fawn.
The album I am looking for is the new Neil Finn 7 World’s Collide with Wilko, Johnny Marr, etc.
Piet needs to get though Saturday, then start planning. RWC is not far off. We are well positioned to do well, but I would hate to see Beast vs the Hymen. Woodcock & Brick Shithouse Ben have already worked Smitty out.
7 Sep 2009, 22:08 pm
#192 grant10:
Rugby is a team game and getting the combination right
You have Anton v Zyl and Jack at locks, Vermulen match fit again and it all looks different
7 Sep 2009, 22:08 pm
#178 cab:
Fair points.
Lets see how it goes on Saturday when Robinson is not around.
7 Sep 2009, 22:08 pm
#193 WakaNathan: Most sane saffas are confused by it all….and obviously hope PDV rather lets the rugby do the talking….i doubt this is the end of the soap opera either…very regretful and unfortunate.
7 Sep 2009, 22:08 pm
#182 TheTackler:
ha ha, yeah but have they played a test in Hamilton, ever?
i didn’t know there was anything out there, at least bloem has pretty girls.
7 Sep 2009, 22:10 pm
#191 Hondo: Honestly bud. He was terrific in S14. Excellent. A raging bull elephant. And fit again. I honestly can’t think of a TH better right now, although that may well be construed as damning with faint praise.
7 Sep 2009, 22:10 pm
#182 TheTackler: Under Henry, NZ have faced Argentina, Ireland, Canada in Hamilton and under Mitchell they played Italy and Wales.
7 Sep 2009, 22:11 pm
#196 cab: My friend I WISHED I was drunk on Saturday.
But I did use it as a good excuse later on.
7 Sep 2009, 22:11 pm
Best 3N cities for hot girls: Joburg, Cape Town, Durban, Bloem, Sydney.
7 Sep 2009, 22:11 pm
#181 SodaJoe: True , but having 10 000 posts saying that JS will never be a no 3 is also just pure speculation. He is a hard working honest player and in his 1st year at tight head. If someone does not appear out of the blue we will have him there for 2011.
7 Sep 2009, 22:12 pm
#195 grant10:
I wonder what will happen when Schalk comes back in 2 weeks time?
At this stage I would put him on the bench ….
Is Alistair brave enough to face big Schalk?
7 Sep 2009, 22:12 pm
#197 SodaJoe: Depends on the draw mate
Playing NZ, Aus or France in the RWC isn’t exactly like playing England (twice) and Argentina as last time out
The luck of the draw
7 Sep 2009, 22:13 pm
#195 grant10: You are such a half-*** Cape Town man.
7 Sep 2009, 22:13 pm
#196 cab: Cab….he aint no 3…never was…never shall be….Smitty goes to 1 ….2 …or the Grand satand….i cannot see this going any other way….BH and the kiwis will try and convince us saffas all is well….i would do the same…great that GH moves Caryter to 12,,,,,,for the Boks that is….yoou think they want us to have a great scrum as well….no ways….they want a target….at scrum time they got it….
These Kiwis had us believing that Schalk was a grewat aura fetcher for years….all **** my m,an….Brussow the victim pf a poor forward effort…and still he does more than scahlk….
7 Sep 2009, 22:14 pm
#189 Robzim: Brussow didn’t have a great game but he took the Aussie hooker out of the game with a big tackle so the commitment was there.
7 Sep 2009, 22:15 pm
#205 haribaldi: Nah. Joburg guys are Handsome Devils – Joburg kugels pale next to Pretoria Poppies. But Cape Town girls are great and one can only hope the Kings come to fruition so you may see some Slummies Semi-***** watching rugby.
7 Sep 2009, 22:15 pm
I say good for him! Give king ref and his henchmen horns. They deserve it. The unwritten “law” that you shouldn’t criticise the ref is a load of bollox. I’m not talking about whinging like a kid and throwing toys when you’re on the wrong side of a result….finding excuses to deflect from an inept performance, etc. The ref has a job to do and he should be objectively judged after each performance. I would like to see the statistics; ratios of penalty counts for and against home sides. You may well find it is 1.5 – 2. The last two games it averaged 3:1 or more. I just want the ref to not be a factor in the outcome. Refs performances should be rated. This should be finacially linked, and refs should be demoted if they underperform. I’m not sure if such a system has been touted at the IRB ivory palace, or if any appraisal system is in place.
Another case can be made for rectifying the glaring inconsistancies in the citing process.
Someone needs to be brave enough to call a spade a spade in a losing circumstance. He has a point, regardless of which side of the fence you’re on. Those were two poor reffing performances and issue needed to be taken. Well done Div. I have more respect for you now, unlike most on here…
7 Sep 2009, 22:15 pm
#206 111BIG5: no way Jose….will never happen…forget that…
7 Sep 2009, 22:16 pm
#206 111BIG5: I think you mean conjecture.
But I would suggest it may be commentary on seeing John with his head up his arse and the SA scrum being moered.
And to me it seems to be our biggest issue.
7 Sep 2009, 22:17 pm
#207 Robzim: He will need to play off the bench…last 20 minutes if Vermeulen or Louw a bit jaded…can never take off Luke…far too influential….
7 Sep 2009, 22:18 pm
Scrum must be fixed or we are gonna see Kiwis celebrating.
7 Sep 2009, 22:18 pm
#211 Big Hit:
Yip, I saw that, and that hooker was giving us a lot of trouble, putting in some big hits himself.
7 Sep 2009, 22:18 pm
#180 Big Hit:
When Sheridan dumped Baxter on his *** he was quickly labelled ‘the best prop in the World’. A week after Woodcock does the same he’s now merely ‘holding his own’ ?
Desperate Housewives.
So tell your Sth African fans, BH, what did you think of Barnes the ref on Sat ?
7 Sep 2009, 22:19 pm
#209 SodaJoe: first the speedo and now the questioning of my sexuality….hell you a cool mate hey!!
7 Sep 2009, 22:19 pm
#213 julz: Joolz. We were penalized within the letter of the law.
I actually thought the ref was very good – very clear, very quick, communicated well. Smitty treid to have his usual go, but even he smirked when he got a 2-barreled answer.
7 Sep 2009, 22:20 pm
#220 grant10: You Weepees and “this is our year”.
7 Sep 2009, 22:22 pm
#210 grant10:
lol, mate, i’m sorry i dont listen to the kiwis or the pommies (however neutral and impartial they may be). I believe Schalk Burger is probably the best springbok player of this generation. He’s done some stupid things recently and been embroiled with a whole nest of poltical vipers and battling factions, but all that **** aside, he remains a great rugby player who will bust his poep-string each and everytime he plays, guarenteed.
7 Sep 2009, 22:23 pm
#222 SodaJoe: well kts been a while….far too long…and we score a pushover try against the ‘manne’ ….what a pleasure….
Seriously though….we end top we may sneak a final….then its on….heeehaaaa.
7 Sep 2009, 22:25 pm
#215 SodaJoe: OK i will talk again after JS destroyed the AB scrum on Saturday.
Why not?
So many miraculous transformations happened the last few months, why not this one. Just think about all the turnarounds, Brok, Blaauw, the Aussie scrum, Werner Kruger , Beast x 2, from glory to useless.
7 Sep 2009, 22:25 pm
#223 cab: ja….i agree…same as J Smit….but please…all i contend is not at 3 or fetcher….never ever questioned there commitment or greatness….just there positions…
7 Sep 2009, 22:25 pm
#218 Robzim: yes hard boy, set the tone for the Aussies. Throwing wasn’t the best though.
#219 WakaNathan: Woodcock didn’t dump Baxter at all, Deans took him off early because the ref penalised him once. In the opening game Woodcock couldn’t even stand up, wouldn’t attempt to bind and Joubert kept pinging Baxter and Deans didn’t want the same thing happening again. Ludicrous officiating really.
The England scrum actually pummelled the Aussies, their entire pack went flying backwards disintegrating into a big gold puddle at the hands of Sheridan. He did it to the French in the followng 6N too.
Barnes was fine on Saturday and had nothing to do with the Boks losing. Boks were the architect of their own downfall by utilising a gameplan which played into Aussie hands. Wasn’t anything to do with the scrum either.
7 Sep 2009, 22:27 pm
#223 cab: A superb player. Rightfully will be considered an all time great.
But outside of RWC when he played for the team our record was largely kak.
And the fetcher principle gets proved game in and game out, it’s obvious. You cannot win the game without the ball. The Diamond wins us ball and slows their ball down allowing defensive lines to form. (And has a pretty nifty scrumhalf service too).
Nah – fetcher is the only way to win consistently, and Schalk needs to compete with the excellent Juan Smith for that jersey.
See you all through the window. I have to go.
7 Sep 2009, 22:28 pm
JW said it a while back about the comparison of Burger and Brussow – i personally think there is room for both of them in the same pack – but as so often JW says something and its all poo-pood for being conservative but guess what, it often comes to pass.
7 Sep 2009, 22:28 pm
#225 111BIG5: Smitty must just hold his own this sat….
But never think a criticism levelled at a player means disrespect…it is simply a view …an observation….thnats all…
I prefer blondes….so what…brunettes , red heads…raven like beauties all cool….sometimes just choice…at the ens of the day J Smit dont givve a damn i dont think he is a 3….
He dont lose sleep….and niether should you…iuse the mouse…
Cheers all…outta here..
7 Sep 2009, 22:29 pm
#225 111BIG5: From your mouth to God’s ears.
I live in hope.
Adieu.
7 Sep 2009, 22:33 pm
Its the same with Soialo and GH trying to opt for more skill, its madness, he’s a fantastic player soailo, the one for england like that is lewis moody, richard brown is a bit like that too but he does not have the endurance and rapid terrier-like quality of Burger, they have no fear factor, some call it no brains, but whatever it is, they just do it – and its so hard to play against that sort of commitment.
7 Sep 2009, 22:35 pm
#221 SodaJoe: yes Mr Barnes was clear, quick and concise, which was good. He may well have been within the law at each time he penalised, but therein lies the problem. At most breakdowns the penalty can go either way, the most maligned case being holding on on the ground / tackler not rolling away. So the ref holds enormous sway. He weilds too much power. Like I said, I would like to see some statistics, because I’m convinced they would paint a grim picture…
Having said all this, we definitely deserved to lose on saturday, regardless!
7 Sep 2009, 22:36 pm
Schalk must play 8 this weekend. Spies to bench.
Ruan to Fh.
M. Steyn to 12 or 15.
F. Steyn to 15 or 14.
If they play M. Steyn at 12 then J. Fourie to wing.
Otherwise M. Steyn to 15 and F. Steyn to 14.
Either way would work out fine.
Pienaar don’t cut it first half hour, pull him bring on Jacobs to center M. Steyn to Fh, Fourie to wing.
Bob’s your uncle we in business. Follow my lead Pdv you won’t go wrong.
7 Sep 2009, 22:37 pm
#228 SodaJoe:
lol, i’m not sure its quite as clearcut as you guys make out, but sure i agree there is room for it, but more importantly is the pack balance.
we presently have an aerial specialist, a converted winger playing 8, a converted hooker playing 3, a converted flanker playing 1 and now a pinball wizard (thats 5 of the 8). there’s a reason that pack was pushed off the ball at the b/d and it was not john smit.
7 Sep 2009, 22:38 pm
#211 Big Hit:
‘big tackle’ ?
That was no tackle. That was an ugly no-arms launch and Brussow deserved a pen for that. In fact, going by what the locals here were saying about Giteaus tackle in SA, it deserved a citing too. It was ugly and the hooker had to leave the field because it injured him thru reckless play. It wasnt intentional, but it wasnt pretty either. Didnt hear any complaints from Deans tho, noone lurking in the shadows at the IRB with any vendettas.
7 Sep 2009, 22:40 pm
#233 julz: statistics were Boks 13-8 Aus in the penalty count. Two of the penalties were awarded by the Kiwi touch-judges, one of them (Bakkies offside) was clearly wrong. Barnes actual penalty count was Boks 11-8 Aus.
7 Sep 2009, 22:41 pm
#236 WakaNathan: come on, you can’t compare Giteau’s flying elbow with Brussow’s tackle.
7 Sep 2009, 22:45 pm
#236 WakaNathan: it looked like it could have been deliberate on the slow mo, but real speed there were miliseconds in it and it looked like they were both competing.
7 Sep 2009, 22:47 pm
#234 skopskiet: skop wats up with the whole morne at 12 ???? do you not know JDV plays 12 ?????????//
7 Sep 2009, 22:50 pm
#237 Big Hit: and the game before was about 17-4 or so (correct me) brining the combined count to 30 – 12 or so! You defending your countryman? Thought the first count was worse though!
7 Sep 2009, 22:50 pm
#227 Big Hit:
Baxter was penalised 2 times in a row. Woodcock nailed him. Your desperation to not acknowledge any AB advantage or aspect of fine play, particularly in the fwds, makes you look a fool.
Woodcock was also part of an AB scrum that forced off 2 French props, in France, forcing them to go no-scrums. Hardly the sign of a prop who merely ‘holds his own’.
Sheridan had his big day vs Baxter, Cannon, Dunning. Big deal, Ive seen scarier front rows at a Bingo Hall. Name me a worse International front row in the history of pro-rugby. Even Italy have a better front row than that.
I suppose if Deans agreed with you that it was merely the refs ruling on Baxter in the Bledisloe he would have selected him vs SA in Brisbane. Gee, Baxter looks like he’ll be riding the pine at best for the forseeable future, and not before time.
7 Sep 2009, 22:53 pm
#239 julz:
Like I said, I dont think it was intentional. But it was certainly no ‘tackle’ and it was most certainly reckless. It was worth a pen tho which given the field position would have been 3pts.
#238 Big Hit:
as ridiculous as calling that a ‘big tackle’.
7 Sep 2009, 22:56 pm
#234 skopskiet: agree largely. RP to fh, MS to fb, FS cover for fb (& 11-14) or preferred depending on the opposition and conditions.
2 fetchers needed. spies on later in the game.
7 Sep 2009, 22:58 pm
#242 WakaNathan: He didn’t nail anything Baxter didn’t go back an inch, the scrum just collapsing and the ref put it on Baxter. On the other hand there’s a video on youtube of Baxter pummelling Woodcock and the ref giving it the other way. Deans even complained about it after the test. Woodcock’s real value is around the field where he was very good last year, a destructive scrummager he is not. Sheridan nailed every front row he faced on the Lions tour, apart from WP. And NZ struggled with that very same Aus pack he wrecked before the World Cup.
anyway, it’s getting late, goodnight waka and others.
7 Sep 2009, 23:01 pm
#240 these are our 2 choices.
F. Steyn
J. Fourie
Jdv
M. Steyn
B. Habana
R. Pienaar
Fdp
Burger
Smith
Brussow
Matfield
Botha
Smit
BdP
Beast
Gurthro, Chili, Roussouw, Spies, January, WO, Jacobs
Or
M. Steyn
F.steyn
J. Fourie
Jdv
B. Habana
R. Pienaar
Fdp
Etc. Etc.
Take your pick, either way will work and win us the try nations. Any other combinations I’m afraid might not.
7 Sep 2009, 23:01 pm
#243 WakaNathan: you a kiwi, with a name like that! lots of aka’s in kiwiland. Went to a number of places sounding like that
7 Sep 2009, 23:02 pm
#244 julz:
I hope youre right and they select Morne at FB.
Which would be closely followed in the Genius Stakes by dropping Brussow for Burger.
The ABs are down to selecting the crumbs at the bottom of the cookie jar. It would make things a whole lot easier for them if the Boks made those panicy decisions. Personally I have little confidence in the Blacks for Saturday, but I felt an inner glow of warm sunshine when I read that remark.
You cant convert a 10 to 15 overnight. Tell me please, in which game did you see Morne play so well at FB that it gave you confidence to select him there in a TriN decider ?
7 Sep 2009, 23:02 pm
For as long as there is such a concentration of power in one official, the game will be devalued, results unreliable, and the officials themselves under unfair pressure.
7 Sep 2009, 23:03 pm
#245 Big Hit: baxter drilled woodcock proper in the first test.
in fact, the aussie scrum was unfairly penalised with an attacking scrum on in the ab’s 22m.
the whole world saw it.
they also saw brussow competing with the island hooker in the air and colliding UNINTENTIONALLY.
the whole world barring waka that is.
7 Sep 2009, 23:09 pm
yes Julz #244 way I see it moly way to go. Get Pienaar out of Fb back to Fh and Ms out of Fh, and Spies to bench, Burger to 8.
Then we stand a very good chance of creaming this 3N Comp. Any other way we could actually end up blowing ourselves right out the water from here, even though we think we sitting so honky dory pretty.
7 Sep 2009, 23:09 pm
moly – only
7 Sep 2009, 23:10 pm
#248 WakaNathan: none! no basis! i guess i’m getting blaze (sp?) like our coaches about playing players out of position. I assume because he can kick well he’ll be ok? Who do you think our fh and fb should be…the ones that would cloud your sunshine..!
7 Sep 2009, 23:14 pm
#251 skopskiet: what do you think the root causes of staturday’s capitulation were?
You seen MS play fb?
7 Sep 2009, 23:17 pm
#253 julz:
#248 WakaNathan
Morne is not a rookie at 15.
I cannot recall him playing brilliantly at FB, but I can recall him playing occasionally for the Bulls in that position.
He was solid enough and under the current circumstances I would also consider it to give him a go at 15 in order to have the play making skills of Pienaar at 10.
7 Sep 2009, 23:19 pm
M. Steyn was covering Fb most the second half last week anyway because Pienaar got stranded out of position, the two players were naturally gravitating to the natural roles, Pienaar to attack and M. Steyn to defence. Just play them where they fit best. M. Steyn a natural kicking defensive safe option back line player, Pienaar a gifted natural intuitive attack minded player. Stop beating about the dead beat bush any longer and drop Spies for Burger, the plonker is a one dimensional non passing donkey with the potential gate of a stallion.
No good having a stallion acting like a buffalo, rather play a buffalo in position instead.
7 Sep 2009, 23:20 pm
I put it down to lack of intensity, lack of commitment to the breakdown, poor tactical kicking and obviously some poor option taking. The game plan was a bit off in the sense that we should have palyed it tigher and more structured. It was Australia’s night and they seemed more hungry
7 Sep 2009, 23:25 pm
#257 julz:
It was a breakthrough game for Australia.
They will now believe that they can match any team as far as physicality goes.
I see a very strong team emerging and coming world cup time they could be the team to beat.
7 Sep 2009, 23:26 pm
#256 skopskiet: what about positional sense. I was a forward(flank), but is that not a skill that takes experience?
7 Sep 2009, 23:26 pm
#246 skopskiet:
reckon your 1st choice is spot on, but wont be allowed for political reasons.
Bam Bam De Villiers will be forced to pick odwa.
7 Sep 2009, 23:29 pm
#258 Robzim: yeah, I was a bit rattled by the result, given that they beat us at our traditional strength..and they are such a young team. But as skoppy was saying maybe we should be playing bufalos not stallions up front..
7 Sep 2009, 23:33 pm
#242 WakaNathan: You play Bingo, Waka?
7 Sep 2009, 23:33 pm
Actually its interesting that politics could end up determining the outcome of sat’s game and might end up accelerating the demise of Bam Bam, rather then letting them pick the best and getting his reputation and record up to the point, where he can start introducing other talents into the setup.
Skopskiet’s first team will win on sat imo, there are absolutely no weaknesses, its a great team throughout.
If Odwa and Adi have to be picked, i think NZ will sneak it.
They are good players, but not as good as the team capable of being picked.
7 Sep 2009, 23:41 pm
#254 julz
Number of problems.
1. Kop toe mentality, thinking we invincible or something as ridiculous as that, now we find out we far from it, divert the attention to the cheating ref, yeah he was in Oz’s pocket 60% of the game but that don’t detract from our lack of temerity or conditioning or sheer inept strategy on the day.
2. No back up front row props and very poor scrum technique. Bismark and Smit go in too high, no power through the front row cause they caught going upward instead of forward. They scared to go down hence they engage too high and then pop out the top instead. Penalty bang!
3. Spies a dead loss in a tight encounter with zero peripheral vision and lack of rugby brain ball skills. A one dimensional straight line bashing ball carrier without the pedigree to carry it off. Not a Smith or Burger just a poor replica of the two with some gas in his legs if by chance he gets an open gap sometime during proceedings. Not a game breaker or game winner in tight fought wars of attrition, far better off bench late in 2nd half when legs are tiring.
4. Pienaar is not a Fb’s back side, should never have been forced or humiliated to play there, totally out of his league or comfort zone, true fish out of water syndrome get him out of there and back to Fh pronto.
5. Mid field stagnant for 2 reasons, no play maker in the mix. Pienaar and Jacobs the only 2 with intuitive game breaking instinct. Jdv and Fourie both hard running centers and either of then could go to wing instead. Jacobs to wing is a recipe for disaster but not the other way around.
6. Need another hard man lock. Roussouw is history, far for Burger hopefully he’s not the same. But I’d still risk Burger to start at 8 ahead of Spies and assist Brussow at breakdown who was left battling in the trenches all on his lonesome. Spies gone awol as he usually does in tight encounters, Kanko would unfortunately be even worse. Play Burger at 8, Spies off bench, problem solved.
Few other problems like Habana getting injured, Bakkies nursing damaged knee etc. Par for the course in extended international test series. Simply have to ride out the storm, but unless we remedy the blatant maladies like Pienaar and Spies and non functioning front row we in for a long period of gnashing and wailing ahead.
7 Sep 2009, 23:45 pm
#263 cab: PDiV has to meet quotas, 3 run on players of colour is my guess. This means that Beast, Habana (if he is fit) and Odwa. I cannot see Adi playing, he is useless. If I had to chose a wind of colour it would be Nokwe and not Odwa, at least Nokwe has some gas (Chavanga would also be better than Odwa). Also FSteyn should be at FB instead of Pienaar.
If there were no quotas, I’d put Pienaar on the wing, bring FSteyn as FB and start with Burger instead of Brussow/Spies.
7 Sep 2009, 23:46 pm
#265 Quagmire: Choose a wing of colour.
7 Sep 2009, 23:49 pm
#251 skopskiet: Not sure I agree with you.
I agree get Pienaar out, but completely out.
The rest – on the day I havent seen Schalk play better than Spies lately, I wouldnt bother with Pienaar at flyhalf because he´s flakey, Morne Steyn at fullback – why do we keep on harping on about playing players out of position? Why not play John Smit at lock? Steyn is a flyhalf born n bred leave him there.
Problem lies with Smit not handling in the scrum or with the refs, Lack of support play and dominating the collisions on Saturday, hence brussouw getting nailed, lack of hunger from the team, poor decision making in the backline – especially at centres, average back 3 for most of the match – Odwa, Pienaar and Adi (silly *******) Jacobs. Lack of phase play, and poor attempt at the kick chase game on Sat – resulting in a monumental loss of possession. I dont think Schalk Burger will change a thing, Bakkies was under the weather with his injury if u ask me and he was part of the reason the tight five struggled. Beast also seems somewhat out of sorts.
All round perhaps fatigue, complacency and lack of urgency. Oz dominated at breakdowns cos they poured numbers through and over any ball and were fitter. We need gamebreakers like Giteau and O Connor – he was sitting players on their asses and he´s a little pint sized fellow. Try putting Joe Pietersen in our backline and we need someone like Nokwe around to add some speed to attack. Mvovo for directness – we need new blood in the long run in the backline as its getting long in the tooth. Front row needs overhaul and if u want to put someone at 8th man who will dominate put Juan Smith back there with Deysel on the side or Willem Alberts at 8?
7 Sep 2009, 23:52 pm
#265 Quagmire:
yes, that sounds right, some stupid min number of 3 and think one has to be proper south african indigeneous black fella with no mixed race – usual bullshit crass racial profiling that still continues 15 years after race reservation.
a few injuries later and they have a real problem on their hands, nokwe is not on tour so he cant be used, if habana is out i think the Boks are in deep ****.
we need a frontline team with no weaknesses to beat the ABs away or at least prevent the 4 try bonus and get within 7 points for our own BP.
7 Sep 2009, 23:52 pm
skopskiet
do you
have a
brain
or are you
just a
washed up
old
brick layer
7 Sep 2009, 23:53 pm
#264 cont.
M. Steyn is not a natural attack prone Fh. Whole back line caught flat footed most times. If you watch Oz the up and down the advantage line this way and that way probing for gaps till they make one or find one. Genia out played Fdp in this regard. Whipped the ball out to first receiver whether its Barnes or Giteau or a rampaging Elsom and then quickly from second and third phase again and again. Fdp still got to learn the art of quick ball to backs, and M. Steyn is a Naas Botha clone that can tackle, he’d be better off at Fb, can come forward when we in drop kick range and urgently looking for 3 points.
Thats my take, M. Steyn to 15 or 12. F. Steyn to 15 or 14. Pienaar to 10. Fourie and Jdv shift one position out if M. Steyn goes to 12.
Burger to 8, Spies to bench, and Bob’s your uncle we come home next week with 3N in the bag.
Go same way as last week we could still cough it all up from here.
7 Sep 2009, 23:54 pm
#205 haribaldi: Pretoris beats all of them. And the cioty with teh highest proposrtion fo great looking girls is Potchefstroom – the nursing college, teachers college and uni is there. Is like paradise. No coincidence why the Aussie cricket team like to be based there…
7 Sep 2009, 23:55 pm
#264 skopskiet:
very good post this
7 Sep 2009, 23:57 pm
waka,
do you also blog as “baron silas greenback” on silverfern?
similar style and also uk-based kiwi.
skoppie,
schalk at 8 would be a disaster – doesn’t have the hands or acceleration off the mark. noticed that brussow put pressure on whichever prop he was scrumming on. his body position in the scrum is not braced and exerts zero support. one option would be to play him at 8 for offensive scrums with smith and spies scrumming on the props.
7 Sep 2009, 23:57 pm
#253 julz:
On the road you need to attack, you cant rely on pens that flowed your way at home. I think RP would be a far better with an attacking mindset. You cant expect to be gifted wins on away trips, you must take it to the opposition. However I completely understand selecting Morne because he’s unflustered and a kicking machine. What I will say is that you either pick RP or MS, to slot 1 in at FB is utter madness. I cant think of ONE 10 who has been converted to 15 at Test level and made a success of it.
Without a doubt Frans should be there at 15. He tackles like a demon, kicks like a mule and is brave under the highball. His only downfall is a lack of vision and passing skills, however the other 3 attributes are far more impt. He would give the back-3 confidence and his longrange kicks would keep discipline a key issue for ABs beyond their own half.
#255 Robzim:
By all means, I hope they do. FB at Test level is a specialist position and DC is a specialist at finding gaps & space.
#262 CharlieBrown:
No, but given BHs English heritage Im sure he does. I pass them all the time here in London, its hard to believe they still exist.
Legs Eleven anyone ?
8 Sep 2009, 00:00 am
would also play adi at 13 and move jf to 14 instead of odwa.
rp to bench and fs at 15
satisfies the anc requirements as well i think
8 Sep 2009, 00:02 am
Porra the fat f.ckwit go get f’ked. Your mates are down the sewer on the website next door, you must have got lost along the way, scream loud enough they might hear you and come fetch you, you obviously in the wrong place poor portogoose prat.
8 Sep 2009, 00:02 am
#273 charo:
Never been on to sulverfun and no intention of doing so. I enjoy differing opinions here and would find boofhead Kiwis blowing smoke up each others asses too much. Theres enough of those specimens here too, of course, some of them smellier than others.
But this greenback fulla sounds like an intelligent chap already, pleased to hear there are 1 or 2 still left back there.
8 Sep 2009, 00:04 am
#274 WakaNathan: Morne Steyn seemed to do just damn fine in the Super 14 semi final and final. Like all players he depends on his team. I think everyone here is being pedantic about him. He is a top notch player.
8 Sep 2009, 00:05 am
#277 WakaNathan:
you a doctor by the way?
8 Sep 2009, 00:06 am
#273 charo:
Burger has very poor hands at the base. For me, he’s a good bencher only, covers all 3 loosie positions. If he competes for any positions its blindside flanker only. Brussow is fantastic. Smith is much better than Burger, who has technical deficiencies (let alone cerebral ones). Spies doesnt convince me, Im a massive fan of Big Joe, best no8 bar none.
8 Sep 2009, 00:07 am
Burger will be very good at 8 given one or two games, very good indeed.
The combination with Brussow might be phenomenal.
8 Sep 2009, 00:11 am
#279 cab:
Nope. What made you think that ? Im surrounded by them tho, wife is a daughter of one and has 4 sisters who are also Drs.
Me, Im squeamish around human blood. Altho Im born’nbred farmers son, so have performed the odd surgical procedures there when req’d.
8 Sep 2009, 00:16 am
Charo – Burger would be a huge improvement on Spies who is actually the problem in that back row. Some very knowledgable rugby fundi’s have been calling for Burger to 8 for a long time already, and the reason we got done in the loose Saturday is because Spies was not assisting Brussow who was left battling the breakdown war alone.
Deans got it right, he picked Pocock to combat Brussow and switched Smith to 8, perfect symmetry amongst his trio who caught us cold because up to then Brussow had a field day in the ground battle, Deans read the script and made the adjustments and we were the ones scrambling for the ball most the time, they cleaned us out at the deck because Spies was simply nowhere, and whenever he carries it up he loses possession trying to bust out alone never linking or passing ever, I simply think he simply don’t know how. Blinker mentality, no real rugby sense whatsoever, not a true 8th man yet, still learning the trade. Burger would be a huge improvement and will get into the breakdown fray and clean out with Brussow hunting together.
8 Sep 2009, 00:17 am
#278 Slumtown:
I didnt say he wasnt. In fact I said throughout the S14 that he was a natural Bok 10. An absolutely phenomenal kicker, balls of steel.
But you cant sit back and wait for pens to come your way on away territory, esp in NZ. You must attack. Im sure he can, but hoisting garryowens all day simply is not the answer.
I dont have any confidence in the ABs tho because theyre ravaged by injury. If they had a backline of Leonard/DC/McAlister/Kahui/Sivi/Roko/Mils and if Hayman was available and Ali.W not injured too, then Id be reasonably confident. But theyre not. And GHs idea of playing DC at 12, Donald at 10, is idiotic.
8 Sep 2009, 00:18 am
#268 cab: Cab,
with Chili, Ndungane and Addi the Boks already deep there, surprised you haven’t noticed it
8 Sep 2009, 00:20 am
anyway time out, past midnight is when all good Birds or Monks go to bed.
8 Sep 2009, 00:21 am
#283 skopskiet:
if you want to drop spies then would play brussow at 8 and schalk at 6. would be better in a tight game, brussow has good hands for the back of the scrum and you wouldn’t lose much in terms of speed to the breakdown. he often plays 8 for cheetahs.
most important though, you get power on both the props at scrumtime
8 Sep 2009, 00:21 am
#280 WakaNathan: couldn’t put it better myself mate, spot on!
8 Sep 2009, 00:27 am
nite skoppie – quite early for you
8 Sep 2009, 00:27 am
#283 skopskiet: Vim Albert is the prime No 8 now in SA, he has it all and in addition he played the Aussies and the Kiwis plenty times, he’s no novice.
Big, strong ball carrier and a superb defender who doesn’t need that great athletism of Spies to break the line
8 Sep 2009, 00:28 am
Yes Pity we lost Big Joe to France he was our true bred No.8, the one that really knows the ropes and the dance steps. We missed a trick there for sure, Spies has flattered to deceive, perhaps he still comes good sometime.
If they not careful Ruan Pienaar stands a good chance of becoming our next Gaffie du Toit, so much talent simply gone to waste. Should never have dropped him from fh even though Morne was kicking the goals, he’s far too one dimensional for a true winning play making pivot.
So long. Cheers cabbie, charo
8 Sep 2009, 00:33 am
“Peter de Villiers delivered a scathing criticism of the officials and is concerned by their body language when awarding decisions against the Springboks.”
cry me a river PDV… no mention of this when the Boks were being favoured in the home tests.. how was the officals body language that day ??
‘I believe life within your own country is sometimes a burden because you have to face it every day but when you go outside your borders, you see that it is actually worse.’
bwahaha is he serious?? unbelievable…
“but claimed their jealousy at the Boks’ success was the reason for what he deems as questionable decisions. ”
jealous of the boks ? oh my goodness, I see he’s returned to his amusing little stories,… unbelievable, this is a much bigger whinge then the whole “boring rugby” affair, and makes GHs dossier on 07 look rather professional now..
what a joke, SA lose and its because the world is against them, (something they accuse the ABs of doing) win and its their own brilliance…
guess NZs arent the only whingers huh ? at least we whinge about a WC 1/4 final, not the first game we lose in the 3Ns when weve had it all our way in our home tests…
8 Sep 2009, 00:38 am
I like Alberts too, but not yet, anyway he’s not in the squad, got to make do with those on the tour. Burger to 8 is my call, leave Brussow at 6, switch around within the game if needs be when on attack or defence but start them like that. Ok must shut it and get gone now. Out.
8 Sep 2009, 00:41 am
come on poppa – the Boks were hardly favoured down here in SA.
Not more so that the home team in generally favoured on their own turf anyway.
I dont think wayne barnes was biased towards a particular side, I just think that he’s a toilet ref in general, and he misses more than he actually sees. I hope he doesnt get a another Bok test any time soon
8 Sep 2009, 00:47 am
#292 poppa69: ha ha ha “at least we whinge about a WC 1/4 final”
8 Sep 2009, 00:50 am
#294 WP_: not so sure mate, look at Rolland at Bloem (incorrect feeds yet FDP got away with the exact same thing? thats a glaring inconsistency) , will be one we will have to agree to disagree on…
Home team does get the better of the calls agreed, but for PDV to say the things he has (body language of an official when awarding a penalty against his side ???) really doesnt paint the Bok in a good light..
now, if he had said that the standard of officiating is appalling (as we all know), then yes, I would agree with him… but to say it after a loss and in the way he has just doesnt look good IMO…
8 Sep 2009, 00:53 am
#295 Transformation: Hey Trans
look, I had a running argument with Predawn yesterday, she bugs me because everything she says about NZ is derogatory, Ive lost count of the sheepshaggers, hicksville etc comments she makes…(and I guarantee she hasnt even been there) so my comments yesterday were all in retaliation… just wanted to explain that…
8 Sep 2009, 01:08 am
Yeah poppa I agree it doesnt look good when coaches have a ***** and a moan after test matches which have been lost, it screams sour grapes and in this case its not like barnes cost us the match. The final aussie try was a knock on from elsom though, if that had been called we might have had a chance to sneak a bonus point.
But, i’m not really a big fan of PdV and many of his decision and ridiculous comments and this is just another example. It shows his naivety to make such comments above the ref, while a few of them could have substance you take it on the chin in rugby and move on and focus on the next game. Its all about swings and roundabouts and you’ll get your bad calls and the calls that go for you.
You would obviously have noticed calls favouring the Boks when in SA more than me,
, but I didnt think the refs over here where too bad, certainly not as bad as blundering barnes. 
,
8 Sep 2009, 01:12 am
#297 poppa69: hey popps, no sweat mate, i had no idea you were in a running feud
, but you’re a warrior, you’re always in some sticky situation ha ha…
So where in the world rankings of whingers does pdv’s rant put us poppa?, cos you the Poms & yourselves are the perennial leaders, i’m sure we’ll manage something like 7th spot!
8 Sep 2009, 01:19 am
Trans – I think the whiny poms are far and away the no. 1 on that list they just ***** and ***** and ***** on and on and on about everything.
A distant 2nd are the kiwi’s followed closely by the aussies.
8 Sep 2009, 01:33 am
#300 WP_: Nobody comes remotely close to the yarpies for “creative” excuses — “travel disadvantage”, everybody hates us, hotel fatigue, beds too small, studs too short, ganging-up conspiracy this, conspiracy that…
8 Sep 2009, 01:33 am
#298 WP_: yeah, unfortunately as supporters I think we only ever see the other teams infringements
I actually thought PDV may have learnt a little from last year, and thought he had until now…
best I leave Barnes well enough alone lol
#299 Transformation: always in a sticky situation mate, not sure its a good thing either hehe Im not sure, but Id say we (with Suzie, Barnes and the stars not aligning every 4 years) perhaps edge you guys…
versus travel, reffing alliance (I wont include quotas because even I can see they do affect your team)
Have to agree with WP, the Poms are the worst, then the Aussies I reckon, one only has to read BH’s posts whenever England lose to someone (never the strongest side, the ref was against them etc etc)..
8 Sep 2009, 01:51 am
Starting to whinge like the poms…Geez I wish he would shut up and focus on the rugby. As for Wayne Barnes, the guy is a git. That god we didn’t get him in the WC, like NZ did.
8 Sep 2009, 02:13 am
#301 TheTackler: Really? I thought that “Suzie” is on the top step in the “creative excuses” department.
8 Sep 2009, 02:26 am
Who can find the quote from a few years ago about that alleged email going around between some Australasian referees to “Get those yarpies”?
8 Sep 2009, 02:36 am
I have always found Saffas pretty good after a loss, this outburst however is laughable
8 Sep 2009, 02:38 am
Dear Div,
Thank you for your entry in the ******** of the Year Award. Though the competition is strong, particularly in the South African divisional section, we believe your entry has an outstanding chance of sweeping the board.
Yours faithfully,
Jaapie van Niekerk,
Division Chairman.
International DHoY,
Johannesburg.
8 Sep 2009, 02:56 am
not much point in PDV saying anything really. but i guess he gets asks questions and then cant help answering them as he sees fit.
maybe he’s been watching lie to me and now thinks he’s an expert on body language…
Barnes, being a ref probably takes pleasure in all penatlies he awards, regardless of the team he’s penalising.
8 Sep 2009, 02:58 am
#301 TheTackler:
still the best excuse ever has to be “susie” – sine then the bopks have been playing excuse catch-up – but started from too far back to ever manage it.
unlike the boks though, you’re rather bereft of creative ideas. always the same old boring one dimenional nonsense from you.
8 Sep 2009, 02:59 am
#307 Maggie:
Not sure
Remember the dude is under a gag order from SARU, I doubt he made that ‘speech’ without a direct instruction from his masters.
The English he used if I am to believe the text is far better than what we usually hear from him on the TV, you have to see the TV footage to tell whether he reads it or speak out his fumes hazed mind?
8 Sep 2009, 03:04 am
#310 Hondo: Surely his masters are not that paranoid are they? To think up conspiracies like that? I don’t know maybe you are right
8 Sep 2009, 03:05 am
#301 TheTackler:
The Suzi poisioning is true but got nothing to do with the Springboks, it was a job of a Far East betting cartel, the SARFU organization had nothing to do with it
The refereeing of that one eyed Morrison bobo was more than enough to counter the effect of the food poisioning, so, what exactly are you bitching about?
8 Sep 2009, 03:07 am
“By any measure Smit’s men stack up as better than the Wallabies, even a more balanced looking Wallaby outfit, so I see no impediment to the Tri-Nations being added to the amazing list of achievements this year other than the unknown factor of how New Zealand’s favourite referee, Wayne Barnes, might influence things which, when you think about it, is quite a damning comment on the state of the game but, sadly, quite true.
Still, as David Campese has said all season long, it is the Boks’ to lose.”
Dan Retief sums up before the Boks game in Brisbane……..
8 Sep 2009, 03:11 am
P Div. Time to hou bek and do your talking on the field. We all know the playing field is not as level as it should be.But it has been this way for a long time. Other factors aside, we cost ourselves this game. Fix the problem areas, scrum and gameplan for starters, and normal service will be resumed.
8 Sep 2009, 03:12 am
#314 stormer in a teacup: What do you mean the field is not as level as it should be?
8 Sep 2009, 03:20 am
#313 Staalburger:
You never know.
Smilar sentiments expressed after the B&IL series and the 3 Home Tests against of the TriNation series.
Some Pom newspaper even went further saying we have witness the same ‘Bevan and the Gold Rolex and who knows what else’ yet again, some Kiwi writer even suggested a Poligraph test for Rolland
8 Sep 2009, 03:21 am
#306 Waster:
gotta agree. especially after he had done such a god job of congratulating the aussies for playing so well in another interview yesterday.
8 Sep 2009, 03:24 am
#315 Waster: Apart from the travel, which nothing can be done about, the SA players are always being cited, banned etc. while the other teams get treated far more leniently for similar offences. I was a function a few years back and Wayne Erickson, retired at that stage, basically stated he loved to dish it out to the Boks, to great laughter from the audience and not a hint of surprise. Bok fans may get a bit paranoid about these things, but there is a very clear pattern there.
8 Sep 2009, 03:26 am
#315 Waster:
Why the need to do it?
The Boks already won 6 out of 8 Tests this year, nothing’s broken why the fix?
8 Sep 2009, 03:26 am
#315 Waster: its all a conspiracy against SA, has been since rugby was invented, apparently
8 Sep 2009, 03:27 am
#318 stormer in a teacup: Ha ha paranoid all right, bring back Pieter van Zyl
8 Sep 2009, 03:29 am
#320 poppa69: Yeah so it seems, everyone picks on the boks, bring on the violins
8 Sep 2009, 03:31 am
#322 Waster: its like the whole “get the SA’s email” Ive asked repeatedly for someone to show me a copy of this email, yet to this day I still havent seen it… anyone say propoganda ?
8 Sep 2009, 03:34 am
#318 stormer in a teacup: That’s the reason why Erickson, Hoeniss and Morrison had their career cut short.
It’s hard to believe that after 7 pro SA biased Tests on the trot people complain about one test, the home tests were handed to us on a plate
8 Sep 2009, 03:35 am
#323 poppa69: Read post 318, comedy paranoia
8 Sep 2009, 03:42 am
#325 Waster: yeah seen it… guess when our team isnt doing well we all clutch at straws, and when enough clutch them they tend to go from outrageous to being possible… ala Suzie, ala reffing alliance etc etc etc ..
8 Sep 2009, 03:42 am
well at least he didn’t quote the bible. What he is saying is right but as usual he is saying it in the wrong way. It should be more of a case of the Boks are getting pinned too often and we need to focus ion this on all fronts both with the srumming technique and by getting a better udnerstanding of the IRB’s interpretation of the laws at scrum time.
8 Sep 2009, 03:44 am
#326 poppa69: Don’t worry I know all about teams I support doing badly,
8 Sep 2009, 03:45 am
If the boks win in hamilton and white wash the northern hemisphere teams(as usual) i wonder if the Irb will vote for p div as coach of the year considering his utterances throughout the whole year?
8 Sep 2009, 03:45 am
#327 kesbok: Well said
8 Sep 2009, 03:46 am
#324 Hondo: Career “cut short”???
Paul Honiss holds the record for reffing more rugby tests than any other referee on this planet, pilgrim.
8 Sep 2009, 04:10 am
Not bad for a blind man.
8 Sep 2009, 04:22 am
PERHAPS PDV, the PENALTIES were from all the PRESSURE Aust put on you
seems that was all we heard about when our teams were being pinged in SA and we complained, so suck it up peoples…
8 Sep 2009, 04:42 am
If you infringe, you run the risk of being pinged. Doesn’t mean you WILL get pinged, but you MIGHT. If you don’t infringe, you won’t be pinged.
So, how’s this for a radical suggestion? Don’t infringe.
And, while we’re at it, here’s another radical suggestion: if you choose to infringe and then you get pinged, just close your gob and swallow it. Leave the silly armbands and the ludicrous conspiracy theories in the change-room lavatory.
8 Sep 2009, 05:09 am
#334 TheTackler:
i dont think the guys are moaning about being pinged – rather the fact aussie at times escaped censure for what appeared to be blatant fouls. and when the one eyed aussie comentators suggest the same during the game you gotta know the home team is getting the rub.
that said who gives a **** – the best team won. they were at home and they were dominant. when that happens you usually get the 50/50 calls because you have the momentum. the boks benefitted in SA when they were dominant and had the momentum. there is no conspiracy, maybe slight inherrant and unavoidable bias but no one can avoid this – even you tackler are at least a little bit biassed in your views
i am not complaining and i am not bothered by the defeat. fact is it’ll do us more good than harm. we all know the ABs could have done with a few more losses and introspection in the leadup to the 99, 03 and 07 world cups.
I still think we’re the best team in the world at the moment – what do you think?
8 Sep 2009, 05:26 am
I think we can all agree that the current system of officiating and citing in rugby is deeply flawed. This essentially is the point PDV is making.
8 Sep 2009, 05:31 am
#336 sglazer:
still find it odd that giteau was not cited for his elbow on du preez. can only imagine what would have happened if it was bakkies or shalk that did that.
i guess officials find it harder to cite midgets than they do citing the big boys.
8 Sep 2009, 05:32 am
#336 sglazer: Didn’t look like his point to me, he thinks his boys are getting unfairly treated, which is bollocks
8 Sep 2009, 05:34 am
#337 munkiboi: Without doubt that was a citable offence.
8 Sep 2009, 05:35 am
#338 Waster: Everyone is getting unfairly treated. PDV is speaking up.
8 Sep 2009, 05:37 am
#338 Waster: … including the officials themselves.
8 Sep 2009, 05:40 am
#341 sglazer: Fair point, the officials are getting it hard too, I just think the perception that SA players get dealt with harder than others is pretty one eyed
8 Sep 2009, 06:30 am
One good thing from last Saturday is the sudden improvement in Wayne Barnes’ popularity amongst the Kiwis. For the last almost two years he was the most hated man in NZ, there was a whole report written about how incompetent he was, some people even wanted him dead.
Now suddenly he’s an excellent ref, makes all the correct decisions, and PDV is just having a whinge, which is now apparently a uniquely Saffa thing to do.
Make up your minds, Kiwis, you’re worse than a bunch of women. Just tell us – is he a good ref or a bad ref?
8 Sep 2009, 06:46 am
#343 rich1:
You’re missing the point. AB fans have ben bagged and pilloried on this forum for two years now for expressing their view that Wayne Barnes had a shocker in 07. You can’t have it both ways – you bag us when we have a gripe but when you guys now do the same we are now just pointing out your hypocricy.
Personally, I still think Barnes is poor. He simply misses a lot of what’s happening at the breakdown and wouldn’t know an offside line if it bit him on his white pasty ***. However, it takes a seriously delusional person to blame the ref for that loss. The Wallabies were all over the Boks like white on rice.
8 Sep 2009, 06:55 am
#343 rich1: we dont think he’s a good ref, just now you guys may realise why we moaned about him so vociferously…
we’re worse then a bunch of woman.. bwahahaa
ARMBANDS
PDV now accusing refs of bad BODY LANGUAGE when penalising the Bok WTF???
Oregan Hoskins crying over NZ and AUS “ganging up” on the possible Kings Franchise…
The amount of gnashing teeth wanting to get rid of Brussouw after one poor game by his standards
The sudden crying that Smit isnt a TH, this wasnt such an issue when you guys were winning.. (still an issue, but now suddenly its a serious one)
THE CONSTANT CRYING for NH REFS, well you got one, shiite wasnt he…
shall I continue.. as Shaapshagger said, its been 2 years we have copped it from SA’s over Barnes, nice to see it come back and bite you guys… but wait, hes from the NH, how can that be part of the “reffing alliance” oh no, the NH is after you too, quick, better hide in them paranoia bunkers
and one more thing
you’re crying over a Tri-Nations game, imagine if that was a WC 1/4 final…
8 Sep 2009, 07:02 am
there’s really no much hoskins can do about pdv’s rant, seeing that he is also quoted talking about both australia & new zealand ganging up on south africa in the sanzar coalition. I’m convinced this was a whole SARU directive voice out their grievances. Either way i think it’s a bad move, win the damn thing first then talk later!
8 Sep 2009, 07:06 am
#346 Transformation: yeah its a shame because it detracts from such a wonderful season your team has had… really does take the gloss of the shine so to speak…
8 Sep 2009, 07:13 am
I think PDV is speaking from a very personal perspective, but it reflects outwards to how all of us have felt at one time or another. It’s time for change, proper change.
8 Sep 2009, 07:19 am
#347 poppa69: well everyone of them has been @ it this year, smit & the players union & the armbands, hoskins not convinced that we’ll get the s15 franchise because aus & nz are ganging up on us, pdv now saying it’s useless to talk to paddy when some of the officials’ body language is questionable & they want to dismantle the boks.
it would certainly be rich for anyone of them to tell pdv to zip it…
how does paddy sit with his whole thing with the refs being “expected” to blow in favour of the home team. Jake said the boks will need tries because the refs are not likely to award them penalties, my question is why? This is not the uefa champions league where a norwegian ref had to be smuggled out of england this year bcoz chelsea fans thought he blew against them. How does rugby union sit comfortably with such an alleged bias from their professional refs?
Anyway, work calls, later friends & foes…
8 Sep 2009, 07:21 am
it is about time that something is done as these refs are a law unto themselves they’re protected so no-one can say anything about them, you cant do anything they are protected so there has to be a evaluation system and feedback from the teams. Else what is the use POB will just back them all the time i think maybe it is time to get Andre Watson in to help
8 Sep 2009, 07:24 am
#334 TheTackler: It’s not as simple as that, especially the part where you say, “If you don’t infringe, you won’t get pinged”.
Mistakes are made missing infringements, and blowing non-existent ones.
8 Sep 2009, 07:26 am
#349 Transformation: I know, weve all been talking about the officiating for the two years at least that Ive been on here… Im not sure mate, but perhaps a sport being “professional” means that the gambling syndicates and bookies have a much more vested interest in certain results…
we seen it in the cricket, betting scandals so would not surprise if it has crept into rugby, no matter how many of us deny it….
07 – do you think it was Barnes or the IRB fearing a massive loss if France didnt make it past that quarter ? sounds ludicrous but it could be a possibility…
8 Sep 2009, 07:27 am
#352 poppa69: And did they land on the moon? (while we are grasping at straws….)
8 Sep 2009, 07:27 am
#350 Dunx: The answer is not more chastising of the refs. It’s spreading responsibility. More refs on the field and appeals for the teams.
8 Sep 2009, 07:29 am
#353 Wikus van der Merwe: thats still a question NOT everyone is sure on
did they? I heard Speilberg shot it in a vacant studio
8 Sep 2009, 07:35 am
#355 poppa69: Hehehehehe … donno…. who knows…. that race between the Russians and the US were full of conflicting facts…. or were they facts…. just not sure…
8 Sep 2009, 07:36 am
#356 Wikus van der Merwe: only the victors record the spoils of war, so youre right, only a select few will really know
8 Sep 2009, 07:45 am
Before the game is played, the Bok management and the team — and all voices inside SARU — always express complete confidence in the ref. “We rate Stu Dickerson very highly” we are told. “Bryce Lawrence is a very fair ref”. “We think that Wayne Barnes is an excellent ref”. “Paul Honiss is one of the best refs in the world and is very experienced”… bla bla.
Then, once the game is lost, the same effusive praise-singers put the boot heavily into the ref. They “struggled with his interpretations” and they “can’t understand” his decisions, etc etc.
Then, a year later, they are drawn the same ref for yet another test and all the smiling, brown-nosing and praise-singing starts all over again.
Who do they think they’re fooling?
8 Sep 2009, 08:00 am
Barnes was terrible on saterday, the wallabies scrum upwards with us getting penalised, how does that work?
There is a difference between scrumming hard and then the other prop pops up but the Aussies just scrum straight up. Poo officiating by Barnes, we all know that he is not the best ref on the park.
8 Sep 2009, 08:07 am
Good old Barnesy’s running touch this weekend, let’s hope he spots all those scandalous kiwi forward passes which they’ve been getting away with for years.
8 Sep 2009, 08:14 am
#358 TheTackler: the kiwis have done their fair share of ref whinging…just look at the 2007 wc. its one big merry go round. if it was any other team they would also be bitching and moaning. the fact is that barnes was absolutely diabolical on sat. as a bok supporter i will moan and am prepared to take the flak…just like i give when anyone else whinges about the ref.
8 Sep 2009, 08:49 am
Whiney Barnes does not even know the rules and I believe he is not impartial. Two Bokke in offside positions tackle a player in the act of scoring a try and no penalty try. He let a lot of thuggery go by also.
He had to use the VMO for a field goal for Heaven’s sake. Vision problems Whiney?
The score certainly flattered the Bokke and PdV is a lost cause; just when I thought that he had a clue.
8 Sep 2009, 08:58 am
#362 AiDoc: are you talking about genia?
lmao.
you cant be offsides when you are on your own line.
do you know the rules mate?
p.s. when taking a quick tap, the ball must leave the hands. look it up.
8 Sep 2009, 08:59 am
that said, the aussies certainly deserved their win.
well done aus!
but you kiwiws should stop crowing until you have done the job eh?
8 Sep 2009, 09:59 am
I have said it before and I will say it again. The standard of reffing world wide is very poor. In some ways the rules have become so complicated or the emphasis placed in different areas so much so that it has become so difficult for a ref to see and adjudicate on everything. Barnes is not a very good ref, it was clear that after awarding various warnings for slowing the ball down to the Ozzies he then took not further action. Some of the ball killing was blatant. Other than consistency which is a premium the next most important thing in reffing has to be the ability of a skipper to ask for is an explanation on why a decision is made so to ensure you do not make the same mistake again. It was clear that Barnes was totally ignoring any such request. The impact was clear to see in the frustration on players faces.
Needless to say this had no impact on the result. The boks looked tired and seemed to almost be running one or two men light at times.
Well done Australia, I think you were more hungry for victory on the day.
What concerns me is the very low standard of reffing world wide though and the impact it is having on this wonderful game. The law makers have made a mockery of the game in a bid to pander to certain nations requirement and tv needs.
8 Sep 2009, 10:20 am
whoever loses, whinges. it’s a law, lol
8 Sep 2009, 10:45 am
#366 spykerbaard: Usually it is. Some whinge more, some less. And I have feeling, that certain Mr. PDV whinges no matter, whether he wins or lose, he is sore anyway, he is going to surpass even SCW which I thought was not humanly possible.
8 Sep 2009, 10:53 am
Grow up or shoot yourself – make everyone happy- LOOSER
Bad LOOSER AT THAT.
8 Sep 2009, 10:54 am
I thought whining was only for losers – direct quote from J Smit after last Saturday? This just makes him sound even more ridiculous than he did before.
8 Sep 2009, 11:05 am
#364 rangerman: We can smell victory – the tables are turning!!!!!
8 Sep 2009, 11:14 am
#368 MalcolmMudge:
I think you mean loser – who tied your shoelaces this morning by the way?
8 Sep 2009, 11:17 am
#367 Nils: You are probably a little biased here, foretelling how bad he’s going to be (“he is going to surpass even SCW”). Who is SCW by the way?
8 Sep 2009, 11:32 am
SCW = Sir Clive Woodward
8 Sep 2009, 11:42 am
#373 jonnymain: thanks, had a blank there
8 Sep 2009, 13:08 pm
#372 spykerbaard: I am. I just hardly ever remember PDV being gracious in defeat (siege mentality? enemies everywhere!) and even in victory he is able to sound arrogant just like SCW, who just had more time, PDV only couple of years.
SCW is English version of JW. Who is JW, you may ask. Practically nobody nowdays but a few years back he was frontpage item.
8 Sep 2009, 13:53 pm
Oh no,he’s started running his mouth again.His biggest problem is not that he doesn’t mean well,but he has no idea how to project his thoughts in a sane considered manner.
He’s too quick to fall back on his mixed metaphors and biblical quotes which make great copy but leave him looking like a right muppet.
Take the Schalk Burger incident for example, he tried to defend his player’s conduct by insisting that the gouge was accidental but ended up sounding like he castigated gouging
8 Sep 2009, 14:50 pm
#376 Diliza:
I believe you mean the opposite of ‘castigated’, perhaps even ‘supported’, because to all the World that is exactly how it sounded. He deserved to be shot for that 1 statement alone. I suppose they were still too wrapped up in hatching their JUSTICE surprise at the time to care how it sounded.
8 Sep 2009, 15:18 pm
Oh dear trouble wif the refs, again. Basically rugby is a lottery with ridiculously complex rules and plenty dodgy refs. So don’t take it seriously. SARU don’t otherwise they would do something about it. Do what?
Well PdV shouldn’t be left to whine on his own. I would guess that having whined to Paddy O’Bumchum about the first game in Oz, Paddy let Barnesy back after putting NZ out of RWC 2007 on condition he was “strict” with the Saffers. Teach them a lesson.
Paddy is an NZder first and a ref second. SA refs are refs first and Saffers second. If SARU were serious they would ensure Andre Twatson took over from Paddy and gave the Aussies and the Aussies in training in NZ a little taste of their own medicine while quietly having a word with refs who ended up with suspect penalty counts against the Saffers. SARU would pack RFU admin with their pals; SA has the clout. No more one eyed citing officers who make Darryl Hair look like a saint.
Basically play the same professional game as Oz and NZ. Total rugby, refs, officials, admin, media and finally, the team. All with one goal – SA to win.
8 Sep 2009, 15:42 pm
#377 BlackPanther: My bad I to say endorsed,that statement will haunt the rest of his career
8 Sep 2009, 19:44 pm
can anyonetell me why we lost 1.46 rating points this week in the world rankings. it should have been closer to 0.6 because australia had home advantage.
8 Sep 2009, 19:45 pm
I THINK WE,VE BEEN CHEATED
8 Sep 2009, 19:52 pm
#381 Dirkie: Dirkie where did you read that? Where does that leave us on the IRB ranking now?
8 Sep 2009, 19:54 pm
A hair width away from NZ. have a look at the irb website.
8 Sep 2009, 20:06 pm
#383 Dirkie: Well thats nonsense. We have only lost to Os and should never have lost so much in points. Maybe they have it wrong.
8 Sep 2009, 20:06 pm
#384 Puma: Meant Oz.
8 Sep 2009, 20:09 pm
#383 Dirkie: Just checked it. Not sure how they work it out but it seems wrong to me.
8 Sep 2009, 20:16 pm
#386 Puma: I worked it out too and it is wrong.
Cheated again by the irb
8 Sep 2009, 20:20 pm
#387 Dirkie: Yip, It does not sound right to me.
Maybe they will correct it. Ag, who cares about them really.
Just hope we win on Saturday and win the Tri-Nations. Would good to finish on a win in NZ.
8 Sep 2009, 20:20 pm
#386 Puma: this means if nz beat us this weekend they will be number one again.
After beating ozz in ozz we should be untouchable on the rest of te away leg.
8 Sep 2009, 20:21 pm
#388 Puma: for sure. I think they will do it.
They needed a wake up call
8 Sep 2009, 20:27 pm
#389 Dirkie: So if we lose 2 games NZ is once again ahead of us? Something does not seem right really.
We have to win on Saturday. The last time I looked we had 90 something and NZ on 89. Now we are almost neck and neck and they lost to us twice here in SA and so did Oz lose to us in SA and in Perth.
Wont take it serious if thats the case. Just must win and take the cup on Sat.
8 Sep 2009, 20:31 pm
Cheers Dirkie I am out of here.
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