Building a dynasty
14 Sep 2009
If Peter de Villiers wants the Springboks to build on their recent success he’ll need to develop a quality second-string contingent.
A year ago, South Africans had to endure Kiwi taunts about how the Boks’ 2007 World Cup win was a fluke. The Boks bombed out of the 2008 Tri-Nations when they diverted from a more structured approach, and the All Blacks finished the year top of the IRB rankings. The Boks finished that tournament last when they should have finished first.
2009 has been the year 2008 should have been. Superior personnel, superior tactics and just reward. The new Bok management should have built on what worked during Jake White’s tenure, and fortunately for the sake of Springbok rugby, they’ve learned their lesson.
The result is a win over the British & Irish Lions and a Tri-Nations title. In terms of ambition, it doesn’t have to end there. As long as these players are fit and available, the Boks are well capable of an unprecedented world title defence come 2011.
Peter de Villiers was humble following Saturday’s victory, and he and his assistant coaches will know they have plenty to do in the next two years. The Boks are blessed with a gifted match 22, but as the head coach himself admitted after defeat in the third Lions Test, they are a bit thin on depth.
The 31-year-old John Smit is yet to decide whether he will continue with the Boks. If he does commit to SA Rugby, he will command a larger leadership group that includes Victor Matfield, Bakkies Botha, Juan Smith and Fourie du Preez.
That list of players inspires confidence, but to win big tournaments you need to have quality in reserve. To build a dynasty and sustain success, the management need to look at the alternatives and start giving them opportunities.
The Jean de Villiers move is a classic example.The Bok centre made a massive contribution to the Tri-Nations victory and will be sorely missed when he heads to Irish club Munster. He may yet return in time for the World Cup, but alternatives need to be identified, alternatives that can perform a similar role.
De Villiers’s World Cup dream was shattered when he tore his bicep in the first 2007 pool game against Samoa. Frans Steyn stepped in at No 12 and proved a great replacement.
Steyn won’t be available in the forseeable future so what are the other options at No 12? Wynand Olivier had a fantastic Super 14 and would complement Jaque Fourie well in midfield. Playing Adi Jacobs at inside centre would alter the Bok attacking dynamic as he’s a completely different player to De Villiers. Because of Jacobs’s suspect defence, the Bok midfield would also become a target.
This is just but one example. Who is going to replace Fourie du Preez if he gets injured? Ruan Pienaar is the second best scrumhalf in South Africa and would be the logical choice, while a player like Jano Vermaak must be close to joining the wider squad. Du Preez’s a class apart, but Pienaar and Vermaak have the kicking game to ensure the Bok gameplan wouldn’t suffer in Du Preez’s absence. There’s no longer a place for Ricky Januarie as long as the current tactics hold sway.
Pienaar has enjoyed mixed success at flyhalf, and is currently the alternative to Morne Steyn. Apart form his obvious goal-kicking attributes, Steyn’s all-round game has improved immensely since he played his first Test this June. He’s always been a good flyhalf when his pack is going forward, but he’s also learned to perform when his forwards are under pressure.
Pienaar’s opportunities have been limited by injuries, but time is running out. He needs to be afforded an extended run at Test level, and in two years the Boks may be in a rare position when they possess two great and experienced pivots.
There are players like Odwa Ndungane who can fill a gap, but the Bok management needs to seek out players who can offer as much as a Bryan Habana and a JP Pietersen. Pienaar has been mentioned as a fullback option, but what if he were to get injured? Conrad Jantjes will be back in 2010, but there needs to be a drive to develop an understudy. Zane Kirchner is one that springs to mind.
Peter de Villiers told the press on Saturday that ‘Players make coaches’. If De Villiers can keep a group of 30 players together in the build up to the 2011 World Cup, they might just make him the greatest coach ever. In developing that elite group, however, he’ll need to start cutting the dead weight and identifying the men to support players that have quickly become legends.
By Jon Cardinelli
154 Comments
14 Sep 2009, 06:25 am
Respect for Peter, well earned.
Also great to see a season with very few injuries to vital players.
No complaints of burnouts
Just great.
14 Sep 2009, 06:42 am
#1 111BIG5: Agreed. PdV now actually has some points in my books.
Hope he utilises the year end tour to give a couple of guys like Olivier, Kirchner, Muller and Sykes some game time. We definitely need to start building depth. If he can give 5 fringe players some game time, it would go a long way.
14 Sep 2009, 06:44 am
Funny to see another dig at Jacobs’ “suspect” defence, especially after Jaque Fourie’s poor showing on the weekend.
Some good questions raised though, it will be interesting to see what youngsters are included on the end of year tour.
The Boks look to have an embarrassment of riches in the loose forwards, hooker and scrummy, but what about the other areas.
Who are people’s predictions as tour bolters in the key positions of lock, prop (esp tighthead), centres and fullback?
14 Sep 2009, 06:49 am
Reason 2008 was a bugger-up was because of politics – we changed coaching staff.Let that be a lesson.Continuity is everything – coaches, players et al…..
That’s what scares me about NZ – if Henry survives – they will win 2011 – he would have absorbed all the lessons by then.
14 Sep 2009, 07:12 am
#4 raven: I disagree. Henry’s team has not shown a lot of development. His game plan is based around Carter, McCaw, Mils and a couple of others. The scrum has not shown improvement, and nor has their lineout. No-one really knows where Henry is heading with the All Blacks and he does not have the talent he had in 2007. One or two injuries (Carter, McCaw) and the start to struggle. The Australians seem to be developing nicely. They have a lot of talent, and for once actually appear to have some strength in depth, and despite losing, they atleast appear to be developing along a structure and with a plan in mind.
This is the same with the Boks. The only question is whether they have reached as high as they can get, and whether they might begin to struggle-some of the players are getting older-or whether they can carry on developing.
14 Sep 2009, 07:18 am
#4 raven: Not too sure about that.
You could also take the opposite view and think that because he has been around so long he can no longer pop any real surprises.
Continually evolving and adjusting your coaching as the game changes takes its toll, especially at the elite level. No-one stays on top forever.
#5 WOLFMAN21: Agreed, the All Blacks lineout has not been up to scratch for years now, and unlike the Wallabies with their scrum, they appear to not be making any attempt to get it up to speed.
14 Sep 2009, 07:19 am
New Zealand confirmed their reputation as bad losers when Springbok centre Jaque Fourie was suspended for four weeks for an alleged spear tackle on Ma’a Nonu in Saturday’s Tri-Nations Test.
All Black lock Brad Thorn was suspended for only a week for a far more serious spear tackle on Bok captain John Smit last year.
Kieran Read, who shoulder-charged Bryan Habana without the ball in Saturday’s Test, was not even cited.
The citing commissioner, Scott Nowland, was the same man who suspended Bakkies Botha for legal play against the British and Irish Lions.
Brian O’Driscoll headbutted Danie Rossouw in the same Test without anything being said about the incident.
14 Sep 2009, 07:23 am
#7 JL1: Perhaps it’s not a New Zealand thing, just a Scott Nowland thing.
All countries have their wankers, it doesn’t have to necessarily be some conspiracy.
14 Sep 2009, 07:25 am
#8 DonutDunning: OK, I have to agree with that
14 Sep 2009, 07:26 am
#8 DonutDunning: …but I also recall a certain Dempsey which changed the Pacific vote and Dempsey was also a Kiwi
14 Sep 2009, 07:37 am
Wc Champs.
S14 Champs.
3Nations Champs.
Charraaaaaaaap you Aussies and A4Y’s….
!
14 Sep 2009, 07:39 am
#2 King Shark:
Muller?
14 Sep 2009, 07:40 am
Is Jantjes really international quality?
14 Sep 2009, 07:52 am
#11 Staal: 2 years Staal.
2011-2009 = 2, not 4
14 Sep 2009, 07:53 am
#3 DonutDunning: PdV should use the end of year tour to blood some youngsters, but he should no go overboard the way he did in the 3rd BIL test. Remember, we’re playing France and Ireland this year – the two best NH sides at the moment.
#13 Lions_Soutie:
It is amazing how short people’s memories are. After last year’s S14 just about everyone (Aussies and Kiwis as well) agreed that Jantjes was the best fullback in the tournament. He played brilliantly in the Bok jersey as well and it was only really towards the end of the year that he had a slight drop in form.
14 Sep 2009, 07:54 am
#14 DonutDunning: hehehehehe in 2 years time it will be A4Y’s.
14 Sep 2009, 07:55 am
#8 DonutDunning: I agree. I don’t think that there is a wide spread anti-SA conspiracy, but I definitely think there are a few individuals with an axe to grind.
14 Sep 2009, 08:00 am
#15 siener: Sorry Siener – maar ek dink Jantjies is useless. Wil nie persoonlik raak nie maar sy verdediging is pateties. Het jy gesien hoe hardloop daai senter van wallis bo-oor hom – goeieste hy probeer nie eens nie. Aggenee … kyk hoe tough was Frans die naweek met of sonder die bal. Hy is n kompiteerder … Jantjies…. neee wat … hy laaik ook maar die bol in hand maar andersinds is hy maar average
my 2 sente….
14 Sep 2009, 08:04 am
#8 DonutDunning: Agree, the conspiracy theory is a bit OTT but there can be no doubting the outrageous inconsistency when it comes to player citings in this year’s Tests.
However, as I posted on another thread, Nowland should be made to explain why he cited Bakkies’ indiscretion against the Lions but failed to cite Woodcock for running in (off about five paces) and diving into a Bok player at a ruck in the 14th minute in Hamilton. At no stage was he bound onto another player.
Maybe the SARU hierarchy can do something useful for once and seek an explanation.
14 Sep 2009, 08:06 am
What about Pietersen or Fourie … both have played there before and been pretty good. An experiment to be tried out at the end of the year.
Stefan will surely hang up his boots at the end of the CC for the Sharks so moving JP to ullback for the Sharks and Boks is an option.
14 Sep 2009, 08:08 am
#19 cambok: Yeah, it’s unfair … but we’re still winning and that makes the victories even sweeter!
14 Sep 2009, 08:09 am
#18 Staal: Wel, dis nou maar een maal so dat mense net die foute raaksien in spelers waarvan hulle nie hou nie terwyl hulle hul gunstelling spelers se foute heeltemal miskyk.
Die “swak verdediging” aanval is die een waarvoor mense gewoonlik gaan as hulle nie iets noemenswaardig het om ‘n speler voor te kritiseer nie.
Almal maak af en toe foute op verdediging. Jaque Fourie die naweek is ‘n goeie voorbeeld. So ook Odwa, wat gewoonlik rotsvas op verdediging is. JdV het gereeld blapse op verdediging. Die naweek het sy onderskep poging gewerk, maar in die verlede het hy al gemis en dan ‘n lekker groot gaping gelos vir die ander span.
Dis maar die aard van die sport. ‘n Mens moet ‘n balans tref tussen aanval en verdediging.
Vir lank was Spies die koning van gemiste duikslae, maar jy sal hom nie sommer net daaroor afmaak as ‘n swak speler nie?
Op sy beste is Jantjes ‘n wêreldklas speler en as hy fiks is sal ek hom vir die Bokke kies voor Kirchner of Terreblanche. Nou dat Fransie weg is het Jantjes verseker ‘n rol om te speel.
14 Sep 2009, 08:10 am
#15 siener: Who are the young guns to look out for, besides Vermaak and Kirchner?
Who is your pick out of the young loosies – Botes, Potgieter, Stegman etc
14 Sep 2009, 08:12 am
Well done Boks – got to admit they are the best team on the planet. The Abs had little chance when we lost every single lineout( even the scew throw in s!) Respect where respect is due.
14 Sep 2009, 08:14 am
#23 DonutDunning: Sorry I was thinking of Deysel not Botes
14 Sep 2009, 08:14 am
PDV has done it, this is by far the most succesfull rugby year for the boks since 1998, only 2 losses against the best teams there is besides the boks.
PDV is humble and it seems he is learning to control his tongue, he has proven us all wrong. (including myself)
14 Sep 2009, 08:17 am
#22 siener: Ek verstaan. LW dis mos my opinie… soos jy n opinie het. Niks persoonliks nie.
Eerlik – Jantjies n wêreldklas speler? ….. soos jy sê – ek sal bietjie kyk.
14 Sep 2009, 08:17 am
#23 DonutDunning: Duane Vermeulen is also on the fringes and deserves a spot on the bench IMO (if only there was any space!! Too many quality loosies). He’s also in that Burger/Smith mould of big powerful loose forwards.
14 Sep 2009, 08:18 am
JC,
You mention that Adi is a completely different player to JDV…
In what way?
I would love for you to explain that one to us.
As for developing depth, start by identifying crucial specialist positions.
2, 3, 8, 9, 10 and 15
Ensure you have world class players there, and world class back up’s.
This means that if PDV is serious about his groupd he has stuck with this year, Chiliboy needs a lot more game time, so too Jannie, Kanko, a scrummy, Pienaar at 10 and we need to desperately find a 15.
Jantjes and Kirchner are the logical guys for 2010, but perhaps with Jantjes still injured, it is time to pull Ludik in closer for the EOYT.
14 Sep 2009, 08:21 am
JP for Bok fullback!
14 Sep 2009, 08:22 am
#15 siener: Conrad J is not the solution for SA at fullback , he lacks BMT and would not be a benefit to an already firing team …. Got to chose a player who will add benefit not be a passenger … It would be better to give Kirchner a run at the end of year tour
14 Sep 2009, 08:22 am
#29 PissAnt: JY was weer verkeerd die naweek! Baie dankie.
14 Sep 2009, 08:23 am
#27 Staal: If I had to pick any player in SA under a hanging up and under, it would be Jantjies… but there are a few criticisms of his game, one being that he needs to work on his kicking. Steyn’s obvious strength is his ability to turn defence into attack by launching one of those missiles back into the opposiiton 22, whereas Jantjies tendancy is always to run the ball. However, Steyn used to do the same thing in the not-so-distant past, so these technical issues can be dealt with.
With experience he’ll learn to read the game better and if he can regain the form he showed last year prior to his injury, he’d be my first choice fullback (albeit after plenty of S14 game time though)
14 Sep 2009, 08:23 am
End of year tour squad:
15. Jantjes
14. JP
11. Nokwe
13. Fourie (since he’ll have a 4 week rest now)
12. Adi (Must get game time with Fourie since he’ll be the no 12 from now on.)
10. Pienaar (he should only be 10, nothing else)
9. Vermaak
8. Kanko
7. Burger (C)
6. Brussow
5. Rossow
4. Bekker
3. Jannie DuP
2. Chilli
1. Guthrow
16. Liebenberg
17. Du Preez
18. Muller
19. (Who’s that big Sharks guy again?)
20. January (Yes, correct)
21. Olivier
22. Kirchner
Rest: Beast, Bismark, Smit, Bakkies, Victor, Smith, Spies, Du Preez, Steyn and Habana after a long season!
14 Sep 2009, 08:24 am
#32 Staal:
Ek is bly om te help!
14 Sep 2009, 08:26 am
I would bring players like
1) Heinke van der Merwe /Wickus Blaauw
Willem Alberts
2) Adriaan Struass / Deon Fourie
3) Werner Kruger / WP Nel
4) Flip van der Merwe
5) Andries Bekker / Franco van der Merwe
6) Duanne Vermeulen / Deon Stegman
7) Jean Deyzel / Piedrie Wannenberg
9) Jano Vermaak/Francois Hougaadt
10) Peter Grant/Meyer Bosman
11) Nigel Mpoe/ Chavange
12) Wynand Olivier/ Swanepoel
13) Alwyn Hollenbach/ Corne Uys
14) Jongi Nkowe/ Louis Ludik
15 Zane Kirschner/Joe Pietersen
This reserve team is not to bad. We should have a back up player in every position.
14 Sep 2009, 08:27 am
The Boks have their core players all world beaters. The focus must now be to source the up and coming talent. We should not have situations where a player like Brussow but for Burger’s indiscretion might have played currie cup rugby this season. It cannot happen again. The suspension of Burger was acutally a turningpoint inasmuch as it brught Brussow in form nowhere and has actually also imprved Burger who I thought had a big game on Saturday. Januarie is now a spent force – he has had his time and offers nothing to the Boks. The S14/15 will agian show we have a wealth of talent the 2010 season will be all importnat to harnmess that talent if we are going to defend in 2011. Ither than the Wallabies I cannot see any other challengers. The AB have it all to do playing at home is not such a key factor them.
14 Sep 2009, 08:28 am
#34 Lobberts, you Dragon:
19. Deysel
14 Sep 2009, 08:28 am
#34 Lobberts, you Dragon: I’m not sure about all your selections but strongly support your plan to leave those 10 at home for a rest.
14 Sep 2009, 08:31 am
#29 PissAnt: Think you got it dead right about the spesialist positions.
See my team at#34 Lobberts, you Dragon: , I’ve got them all in there.
14 Sep 2009, 08:33 am
Incorrect. The boks dont have a quality match 22. They have a quality starting 15. Everytime the sub-standard replacements come on, things fall apart. Hence, the starting 15 are forced to stay on past the point of exhaustion out of necessity and as a result we start leaking tries in the last 20, making the opposition look better than they really are. In truth, we have guys like wynand olivier, jano vermaak, adriaan strauss etc who could retain the intensity in the last 20, but its a quota thing, of course.
14 Sep 2009, 08:38 am
#30 kevin w:
Nah, pick Ludik. he’s the best bet after Oom Stef
Deysel is too good not to go on the EOYT, while I cannot understand the picking of Vermaak over Kockett?!?
D. Vermeulen also looking good but I cannot see him being put in ahead of Potgieter or Deysel. Sykes and Flip vd Merwe need to be there and should be groomed to take over the enforcer role from Bakkies.
AB’s have problems, how players like de malmanche and masaga didnt really get a look in after their S14 performances is beyond me while guys like Kaino, Joe R. and other underperformers were maintained.
#25 DonutDunning:
When can we expect Digby back?
14 Sep 2009, 08:39 am
#39 cambok: Even if that means we lose a test or two, we’ve got the 3N and the Lions series, and next year we’ll be back aging, with our strongest team, but also a stronger back-up!
14 Sep 2009, 08:39 am
Just thought I’d repost what I posted on the SA-NZ Preview blog on Friday
:
91. WP_ :
September 11th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Why are the ABs so confident? They’ve got no right to be!
I was watching ReUnion last night, and Grant Nisbett and Willie Lose predited huge wins for the ABs by 13 or more.
Wat the ****! Talk about getting carried away, they’ve shown nothing all season that suggests that they can beat us by such a margin. They’ve got a make shift combo in midfield, a winger who isnt in great form, a very, very average no. 8 in Read and an inexperienced lock in Ross who we can easily dominate at line out time.
Boks by 3 or 4
14 Sep 2009, 08:43 am
#41 Tacitus:
Same could be said for Oz and Nz as well to be fair Tac and that is as it should be. Where in the world do you find a team of 22 players that are all of a similar class?
14 Sep 2009, 08:46 am
Steyn showed what a quality and gifted player he is this weekend . So many people on this website have bemoaned Steyn for being overated , flash in the pan …. but to be able to kick a 60 m penalty in the final of the Trinations shows this player has the BMT and attitude to do great things . As a kiwi there is no answer to the 60 m “siege cannon” , it is so demotivating being on the other end.
Steyns genius has been wasted in SA – imo he has not been managed propely and has been pushed from pillar to post by coaching staff in SA ( being dropped for the Aus test was spite not tactical). I see Steyn coming back to SA as a much better and smarter player , hopefully he gets the respect and the coaching that he needs – i wish him luck
14 Sep 2009, 08:58 am
#46 stew: well said, can’t believe that i am agreeing with a kiwi, but when you right you right
14 Sep 2009, 08:59 am
#42 Ruggaluvva: the Namibian, Sharks, Southern Kings & Wallaby supporter: Requires a shoulder reconstruction, they said it could be 6 months.
So unfortunately it may not be until next Super 14 season.
A real shame, I would have loved to have seen him go on the EOYT on the wing, or even tested out at outside centre.
14 Sep 2009, 09:02 am
#43 Lobberts, you Dragon: i agree northern tour should just be used as a testing ground for southern hemisphere up and coming players to ensure our domination over them
14 Sep 2009, 09:02 am
#41 Tacitus:
I agree with your selections, why is Chili in the squad if he never play’s, and January let me not even start with old pap sak…
Fransois Hougaard is the back up to Fourie at the bulls and will be in the bok frame soon.
Also Potgieter but we have a lot of loose forwards.
14 Sep 2009, 09:03 am
#46 stew:
Spite? Why do you say that Stew, what spiteful reason could Peter have for excluding Steyn? It was purely tactical
14 Sep 2009, 09:05 am
#42 Ruggaluvva: the Namibian, Sharks, Southern Kings & Wallaby supporter: Vermaak over Kocket because somewhere along the line Kocket lost his one and only marble and is now prone to brain farts occasionaly, who knows maybe he will find his marble one day when he grows up and realises that he is supposed to be a professional rugby player (ps i do like him, his brain farts not so much)
14 Sep 2009, 09:06 am
#51 Ruggaluvva: the Namibian, Sharks, Southern Kings & Wallaby supporter: Yes we all know Pienaar was a tactical choice – come on !
14 Sep 2009, 09:08 am
#51 Ruggaluvva: the Namibian, Sharks, Southern Kings & Wallaby supporter:
“Spite? Why do you say that Stew, what spiteful reason could Peter have for excluding Steyn? It was purely tactical” …..
Honestly … not the best tactical move ever…..
14 Sep 2009, 09:08 am
#48 DonutDunning:
Damn, Digby looked really good this past S14. I would have him at 13 though, he’ll be wasted on the wing
14 Sep 2009, 09:09 am
Well i got to go…. can i just say it again….
Ruan Woods is a 9
14 Sep 2009, 09:10 am
46 Stew – Fully agree with you there.
At 22 years old Frans Steyn has already played 36 tests and scored 86 points. He weighs in at 100kg. Given that he is not a main line kicker this is remarkable. He has also scored 5 tries. For some bizzare reason he has as many starts as he has had coming of the bench. It is quite remarkalbe how Steyn has been treated rather than being nutured. One of the issues has been where to put Steyn given his ability to play any position in the backline other than no.9. In my opinion he stands to be one the great Boks if injuries aside they let him settle at 15. This is seriously one of the most gifted players I have seen in a long time. I think his move to France will only improve him and he should be back in the Bok jumper soon. Hopefully PDV has realised that he is the only no 15 for 2011!
14 Sep 2009, 09:12 am
#56 Staal: lol and where is Earl Woods gonna play?
14 Sep 2009, 09:14 am
#57 kesbok: i agree, he has huge bmt kicking those penalties in the TriNations final, what a gem, he had me off my chair on Saturday and watching the kiwi faces as he slotted them priceless
14 Sep 2009, 09:15 am
#57 kesbok: I am hoping he is not playing for the Boks in 2011 – by then he will be able to kick from his own 22 !!! He he …. Amazing
14 Sep 2009, 09:15 am
#52 Wukong:
Please man Kockett is solid, granted he’s fiery, but solid nonetheless.
He can kick for poles, and is a better tactical kicker than Vermaak. Actually Vermaaks only better than him with regards to passing and if thats the sole criteria you are choosing to look at then I’d rather have Charl McLeod (sp?) in there.
#53 stew:
Lets not go on heresay Stew, Pienaar has all the attributes of a good 15 so why not give him a try in a position that is rather up for grabs (rememeber Steyn only started there this year too). It was an experiment that failed but you cannot be successful all the time. Tactical.
#54 Staal:
Agreed
14 Sep 2009, 09:15 am
E O Y T now apparently 5 matches with 2 midweek games….France and Ireland will be helleva tough….even Italy have a formidable pack so no gimmees…..Certainly Leicester will also pose a challenge.
Will be interesting to see who is affored rest opportunities…..of course being a WP fan i would hope the Bulls and Sharks rest there Boks but realistically dont see that happening….
With a view to the future i would like to see a 30 man squad as follows….
15….Kirchner…J Pietersen
14…JPP….L Mapoe
11 Habana….O Ndugane
12 W Olivier…P Grant
13 J Fourie….J De Jongh
10 M Steyn… B Francis
9 J Fourie….R Pienaar
8 P Spies….R Kankowski
7 J Smith….S Burger
6 H Brussouw….D Potgieter
5 V Matfield….J Muller
4 B Botha….S Sykes
3 J Smit…W Kruger
2 Bismarck….Chilliboy
1 Beast….W Blaauw
14 Sep 2009, 09:16 am
9 is FDP
14 Sep 2009, 09:17 am
#57 kesbok:
PDV was the best thing that could have happened to Frans – pity it happened a year too late for him.
He needed the right management to get the best out of him.
14 Sep 2009, 09:17 am
#56 Staal:
I disagree, play him at 10 and leave him there
14 Sep 2009, 09:19 am
Congratulations **** Muir and Gary Gold. YOU are the unsung heroes of ALL the Bok victories and achievements this year.
We all know who are the ACTUAL coached in the Bok setup. Just look carefully at the shots of the “Coach Box” during the game. Also look at **** Muir;s bodylanguage and looks of dismay/disgust when PdV starts celebrating 20 minutes early.
It is unfortuante that **** and Gary is ignored when the accolades start flooding in…without them the Bokke would be nowhere.
14 Sep 2009, 09:20 am
64 – let’s hope so and let’s hope PDV selects him notwithstanding his French commitments. That will be a real boost for the player and the team
14 Sep 2009, 09:21 am
#61 Ruggaluvva: the Namibian, Sharks, Southern Kings & Wallaby supporter: why in the bok squad would he kick for poles? ever? you have Morne point machine there for that, his fieryness as you call it has the potential to cost you a test match, if he sorts this out we on the same page if not then we will not agree on this, also would like to see Vermaak in a winning team, if he can shine for the Lions what would he do for the boks under P Divvy tuition?
14 Sep 2009, 09:21 am
#66 MightyQuin:
Mangement TEAM.
14 Sep 2009, 09:22 am
Why doesent someone just ask Ruan where he wants to play ? Players have preferences….and Ruan has always maintained he is a 9 that can play elsewhere.
Ruan wants to play 9….always was a reluctant utility player.
14 Sep 2009, 09:24 am
#62 grant10:
Also a fan of J Pitersen but he wont cut it at international level and you cannot not include Deysel. Stegmann should be backup for Brussouw. Rather Swanepoel over Grant at 12 behind Wynand. Bjorn Basson should also be included somewhere there.
14 Sep 2009, 09:25 am
I hate Marius Jonker and I hate penalty tries and I hate teams that don’t play for 80 minutes.
14 Sep 2009, 09:25 am
#69 PissAnt: Hu? What’s your point? Then PdV should be lauded as the Manager of the Year…not coach. Why are the rest of the “Team” then ignored? I think it’s time that terms like “coach” get revisited. IS PdV a coach? What is a coach? etc etc
14 Sep 2009, 09:26 am
#71 Ruggaluvva: the Namibian, Sharks, Southern Kings & Wallaby supporter: Ja….its tough hey!! Deysel, D Vermeulen, Steggmann, Dewalt…hell i am glad i am not a selector!
14 Sep 2009, 09:27 am
#73 MightyQuin:
Coach is nothing without his players, and players are nothing without their coach.
14 Sep 2009, 09:27 am
#68 Wukong:
Not saying he would, just saying he can. Like I said I think Vermaaks only beats Kockett when its comes to the pass and Kockett has looked selfish of late but when on song there is no scrummy in SA better than Kockett (barring FdP)
14 Sep 2009, 09:28 am
PDV is the man….no question about it….detractors eating loads of humble pie…like i have over J Smit at 3….
What more must PDV do….cmon…the mans a LEGEND.
Check the scoreboard.
14 Sep 2009, 09:30 am
#66 MightyQuin:
he was celebrating a penalty at a crucial point not a win…numbnuts…
14 Sep 2009, 09:31 am
#66 MightyQuin:
Is it cos he’s black?
14 Sep 2009, 09:31 am
#62 grant10: A Jacobs at 12 in place of p Grant…messed up there.
14 Sep 2009, 09:32 am
#73 MightyQuin:
I am actually to afraid to explain the point to you.
The article reads the ‘management’ (inclusive) and does not single out any one person in particular.
Any international setup has a head coach, with assistant coaches who forms part of the management team, or coaching team.
Otherwise there would be no point in appointing them don’t you think?
If anyone thinks the success is only down to ONE man he or she is dellusional. Same as the success of a rugby team never coming down to ONE person alone even if he kicks 60 meter penalties.
Having to thank EACH individual involved in the setup individually seems a bit insecure to me if that is what you want. Simply because this TEAM and its management are always first to acknowledge each other and not the individual.
Lastly, if we have to ‘coach’ players at this level we are in serious ****. At test level you manage processes as management and leaders (captains) which include strategies, game plans and selections.
14 Sep 2009, 09:33 am
#75 Dawn: i agree, i have immense repect for pdv. HE is the man!!!!!.
14 Sep 2009, 09:34 am
#75 Dawn:
Some comments dont need a reply, its clear MightyQuin is just looking for trouble. Ignore him and he’ll soon go away.
#74 grant10:
Now imagine waht Plum must be going through;
Where to play Ruan? 9, 10, 15?
9: We have Kockett and McLeod (who should be our first choice scrummy at this point) who are both quality
10: Ruan surely wants to play 9 but he can play 10 then we have JMH and Monty who can play there
15: Stefan is irreplaceable at the back imo
12: Swanepoel adds a lovely crashball alternative, JMH can add flair, horses for courses
13: Adi, Murray, Strauss, Vulindlu (in that order)
Wings: Mvovo looks exciting indeed, pace galore. Jordaan also pretty good. Odwa and JPP.
Eish, but we have a surplus of options
14 Sep 2009, 09:34 am
#77 grant10:
how does it taste…
14 Sep 2009, 09:36 am
#82 Martin:
Naah. Please attend to the Mighty Quin!!!!
“All kudos to Gary Gold and **** Muir the unsung heroes of all our victories!!!!!!!!”
14 Sep 2009, 09:37 am
Jeez I hate Marius Jonker and I hate penalty tries and I hate teams that don’t play for 80 minutes.
And I hate the weather.
14 Sep 2009, 09:38 am
#85 Dawn:
Stop being so bitter. Be happy…for a change.
14 Sep 2009, 09:39 am
#80 grant10:
Why would you play jacobs at 12? Then he comes back and plays 13 for the Sharks. Do you “other franchise supporters” enjoy making our players play out of position?
Smit from 2 to 3
Beast from 8 to 1
Ruan from 9 to 10 to 15
JPP from 14 to 15 (as was being touted earlier in the year)
Adi from 13 to wing to 12
Steyn (not ours anymore though) from 12 to wing to 10 to 15
Kankowski from 8 to 7
14 Sep 2009, 09:39 am
And who the heck are Nick and Norah!!!!!!!!!!!
14 Sep 2009, 09:40 am
#85 Dawn: its not worth the energy…really….and it will spoil my positive karma for this week.
14 Sep 2009, 09:41 am
#87 Predawn:
Broer, I’m very happy.
14 Sep 2009, 09:42 am
#79 Dawn:
Pete de Villiers is black….I thought he was afrikaans, I thought that Luke was talking about him when he said dutchmen were running rugby in sa?
14 Sep 2009, 09:42 am
#83 Ruggaluvva: the Namibian, Sharks, Southern Kings & Wallaby supporter: Ja…..horses for courses the way to go…That Jordaan winger impressed me a lot Sat, as well as Pat cilliers.
14 Sep 2009, 09:43 am
It’s just I have a beef with my team(s) who only played for 40 minutes this weekend.
Valid, I think.
14 Sep 2009, 09:44 am
#88 Ruggaluvva: the Namibian, Sharks, Southern Kings & Wallaby supporter: I always thought Adi was better suited to 12….but …you 100% right, best not to play players out of position.
14 Sep 2009, 09:44 am
#92 gunther:
Course he is.
What’s your problem.
14 Sep 2009, 09:46 am
Where’s bloody Keo.
Tipping Australia for Tri-Nations.
Come out and eat crow.
14 Sep 2009, 09:47 am
#26 Breakdown Boy: hello breakdown boy, no, pdv hasn’t “proved us all wrong” he has proved YOU & the likes of mark keohane, gavin “you’re not close enough to the team” rich, some rent-a-quote former springboks who wrote about “seven lean years” wrong! some of us have been behind him through the “moerse lot of k@k” that the south african media put him through…welcome to the pdv supporters club, note, all new applications have to be approved by the current president, the honorable Saffa Guy.
14 Sep 2009, 09:54 am
#62 grant10: I would like to see the following players “groomed” into this GREAT BOK TEAM and mentored by the Matfields, Bakkie’s, Smits, Juans, Du Preez’s, Fourie’s, Habana’s, etc….
Props – C. Oosthiuizen / W. Blaaw / W. Du Preez / WP Nel / F. Kirsten
Hookers – T. Liebenberg / A. Strauss
Locks – J. Kruger (come back to SA) / M. Muller / S. Sykes / W. Steenkamp /
Flanks – J. Deysel / D. Vermuelen / F. Louw / J. Van Deventer / D. Stegmann
No. 8′s – N. Koster / CJ Stander / D. Potgieter
Scrumhalves – J. Vermaak / C. Hoffmann / R. Kockett / F. Hougaard
Flyhalves – B. Francis / F. Brummer / L. Cronje
Centres – J. de Jongh / R. Ebersohn / P. Snyman
Wings – L. Mapoe / JJ Engelbrecht / G. Van Den Heerver
Fullbacks – L. Ludick / W. Pieterson
14 Sep 2009, 09:55 am
#66 MightyQuin: thank you to Allister Coetzee & Gert Smal for the Rwc 07 win, without them we wouldn’t have won the cup, goodness knows where would’ve been without them, seeing that we entered the competition as no.4 in the world! the journalists on this site should include “world cup winning coach” every time they write a story about allister & his WP team in the currie cup!
14 Sep 2009, 09:58 am
#99 Gambit25: Not to mention the young guys in the current Bok team to stay there…
Beast
Bismark
Brussouw
Spies / Kankowski
JP Pieterson
F Steyn (to come back)
Thank you to Snor, Smitty and all the Boks for giving us a great year!
Whoop whoop for the BOKKE!!!
14 Sep 2009, 10:00 am
99 Gambit25: Province u21 have an inside centre by the name of Johan Sadie, pure class……pencil this guys name in as one for the future !!
14 Sep 2009, 10:01 am
#46 stew: Stew agree with you totally. If Steyn was just left in one position, how well would he have been playing there now? For me and many others he was always a natural FB. Should have been playing there since last year. Yes he should have played in Perth and in Brisbane too. There was no reason to not start with him. Not sure if it was spite maybe PdV thinking of the future because Steyn is leaving for France, but for those two tests he should have started. We may have won the Brisbane test too.
Now he may be lost to SA rugby he has signed for Metro for 2 years. I hope that PdV still selects him for the Boks as we can see if he can keep playing there he will be our best Bok FB ever. Hoping he can cut that contract short and come home in time for the wc.
What a performance by Frans on Saturday. He was brilliant so was our Captain John Smit.
14 Sep 2009, 10:06 am
#103 Puma: Watching the replay as we speak….Schalk was also huge, the amount of work he gets through is mind boggling !!
14 Sep 2009, 10:07 am
#101 Gambit25: Agree we should all say thanks. To PdV, Muir, Gold and mostly THE PLAYERS and our brilliant CAPTAIN for giving us the best year of rugby we have ever had.
Good luck on the eoyt too. Just wish Frans Steyn could have been playing eoyt too.
Boks have really made us proud this year.
14 Sep 2009, 10:11 am
#104 justrugby: He was and teaming up with Brussow was great. Think 7 suits Burger far, far more than 6. Pleased too that Kanko done well once Burger went off.
All the players were superb on Saturday. How is Habs defence? Awesome must be the best defence from any wing in the world at the moment. John had a magnificent game and Frans Steyn was for me just awesome and FdP superb as usual. They all played very well on Saturday. Like a band of brothers, the way it should always be.
14 Sep 2009, 10:14 am
#102 justrugby:
Hi, how are you,
The no 10 with the big boot also looks like a classy player.
If Schalk is not injured I wonder how they will accommodate him in the WP team.
Louw was brilliant, Watson is the Captain and Vermeulen can surely not be dropped?
14 Sep 2009, 10:15 am
#106 Puma: That’s what rugby is all about, kudos to the the management team led by PDEV for creating the atmosphere of brotherhood !!!
14 Sep 2009, 10:16 am
You see the way Frans Steyn played on Sat is the best you can get from the boy.Besides the drop ball he was flawless…FLAWLESSLY SOLID…The penalty goals were special indeed.But the game he played was like I said in midweek measured like a Gavin Hastings/Matt Burke..Steyn is NOT a pure runner of the ball,NOT a stepper/swerver of note,NOT a natural BALL PLAYER.He is best when doing the conventional FB role.He has a big boot,caregous on defence,compete on up and unders and solid positional play.its not an indictment on his abilities-but he is no BLANCO/CULLEN/LATHAM/ROBINSON/MULIAINA/JOUBA..period
He sticks to his strengths he will go on to be a very good 15 with a decoration of caps,trophies,medals.Great display on Saturday.
The maverick attitude was shelved on Saturday and for much of 2009-which has resulted in his best yr as a pro.consistency over time is better served in a team like the current Bok set up than FREAKISH..which he isnt in TOTALITY.
14 Sep 2009, 10:21 am
Once the hype settles we must be very clear, sensible and calm about how best to pave the future.
Form and not sentiment must be the criteria we use for picking a side that will take us to the 2011 WC.
Not easy for the selectors !
14 Sep 2009, 10:21 am
#104 justrugby: Yes… seen him play, liked what i saw!
I didn’t unclude too many under 21 players as I thought they still need to grow in their respective Provinces a bit more!
14 Sep 2009, 10:25 am
#107 Robzim: Hi Rob…. Interesting indeed, I think he will play in place of Louw…..(who is a reat prospect and playing himself into contention for eoyt selection.)
Tough call but i think that’s what will happen !!
14 Sep 2009, 10:25 am
#109 mshiniwami: He is perfect for this Bok team!
Other than Steyn, the only guy I would like to see make the Bok 15 jersey his own, is Wilton Pieterson!!!
I don’t believe Jantjes is going to light the world on fire and I don’t think Zane will either (as solid as he is). I do think Ludick can stake his claim at 15 though…
14 Sep 2009, 10:26 am
#108 justrugby: Yes he has created a good atmosphere for all the players. Also allowing them to have some say must make for a really good relationship. A happy team will always do well.
#109 mshiniwami: Steyn was magnificent on Saturday. Really sad to see him leaving for France. Did you see how many players were needed to bring him down? Damn that youngster is so strong. We at the Sharks are going to MISS him huge and so will the Boks if PdV does not keep selecting him. He should insist to play FB for his club.
14 Sep 2009, 10:27 am
EOYT squad to rest
Beast,Botha,Smith,Spies
Rotation policy on:(limited gametime)
Smit,Matfield,Habana
New caps:
F.vd Merwe,Vermaak,De Jongh,Vermuelen
14 Sep 2009, 10:29 am
#113 Gambit25: Think if Frans was not leaving and kept playing FB until wc 2011 we would see our very best FB ever by that time.
NO other team in world rugby has a FB that can kick 60m NO-ONE. How great was he with that monster kick? And he is ours. PdV should find ways to buy him out of that contract in France and keep him here until 2011. No-one you mentioned above will be a Frans Steyn no-one. Sad to lose such a great player. Only 22 also so young to be leaving.
14 Sep 2009, 10:29 am
#111 Gambit25: Fair call !!
14 Sep 2009, 10:31 am
#115 mshiniwami: I really don’t agree with sending a under strength team ever. Send our best always in the green and gold.
We need our best to beat France and Ireland. We beat Ireland then we have won just about everything this year by beating the 6 nations champions too. Send the best. They can rest a few weeks after the CC.
14 Sep 2009, 10:32 am
#113 Gambit25:
Exactly.
I dont rate Ludik myself..
Zane Kirchner in my view is a better player than him.
Ludik is solid like a younger version of the FB version of Stefan Terlanche/Johan Roets.Brave,positional play solid.but at present no Bok quality.
Wilton Pieterson was definitely one for the future.Havent hread much since his accident though
14 Sep 2009, 10:38 am
#119 mshiniwami: Cheetahchamp…. can you shed some light on Wilton’s recovery??
14 Sep 2009, 10:39 am
#118 Puma:
Hardly too understrength
You saw how France went to NZ and beat them in their own backyard with a good mix of youth and experience?
Its a compromise.Also a catch 22-if De Villiers doesnt blood new talent and rest intergral squad it will be to his/Boks detriment.Management nouse taht is needed there.Players nowadays have only 3 week rest of offseason after have to play close to 40 games…This is weakning the team its strengthning it.
I dont know if you saw it but the likes of Smit,Vic,Spies,Habana,Smith,De Villiers,Beast..look like they being held together by elostoplast at the moment.
14 Sep 2009, 10:48 am
#121 mshiniwami: i agree, i was so suprised & worried a bit when i saw vic & spies talking after the game in the locker room & their shoulders were sooo patched up in elastoplast! I give a lot of respect to these men, putting their bodies on the line week-in week-out for the springboks & south africa sometimes under immense pain!
Go bokke!
14 Sep 2009, 10:58 am
2008 was no surprise, the boks had a change in personnel, it was also going to take a few months to get settled, 2009 was always going to be the year once all settled.
Its easy to say PdV must build depth, but that is not his job. Its about picking your best players for each and every test match. There is no ways you can build so that players like Bakkies or FdP are injured there is someone else, they are irreplaceable worldclass talents, that when fit need to be picked. Its up to the S14 sides and their players to develop themselves so that they push the Bok incumbemts for a spot.
Just who is going to replace Bakkies Botha? Get serious. This has nothing to do with PDiv.
14 Sep 2009, 10:59 am
#66 MightyQuin:
Plenty of us have congratulated Gold and Muir… and everyone involved with the Boks… but far from congratulating Gold and Muir it seems that what you’re really intent on doing is NOT congratulating PdV…
You should chew on your own shoes and follow your own advice… Why don’t you congratulate everyone? Including PdV!!
Guess it puts your opinions into perspective…
14 Sep 2009, 11:01 am
#122 Transformation: one of the moments of the match (also scary moment) was when Smitty got hit by Schalk. I thought he was down and out. But true to the warrior that he is, he got up and soliered on.
I will go to war with Smitty, Bakkies, Habana, Bismark, Beast, Fransie and Schalk any day!
14 Sep 2009, 11:03 am
#124 ufo: you are wasting your time. orania is a town with internet access.
14 Sep 2009, 11:03 am
#121 mshiniwami: You are correct there that the players are playing too much rugby and need rest. Also agree those players are very good to send and yes, we need to bring in new players as we never know who will get injured and so on.
I really think we must never send a under strength team. Yes, France did and they always do and the NH that send under strength teams here and really I lose interest to watch under strength teams and think most do. Always play the best for the green and gold. Take some youngsters with this team. Thats why mid week games would be ideal but they don’t have them anymore. Pity.
14 Sep 2009, 11:03 am
Tonderai Chavanga and Jonke Nokwe must add the physical edge to there game to be world beaters,we need back up wings guys come on players put your hand up
14 Sep 2009, 11:05 am
#123 cab: How you cabbie? Ja, I feel the same there. Play our best always. S14 should be bringing the youngsters. I think that is what is happening right now. Sharks are doing well without their Boks with some youngsters.
14 Sep 2009, 11:14 am
#126 moedeloos:
seriously…???
I didn’t evenknow that were allowed to watch TV…!!!
14 Sep 2009, 11:18 am
ahem…
I didn’t even know that they were allowed to watch TV…!!!
14 Sep 2009, 11:22 am
#131 ufo: they dont watch TV…. they only read keo, rich and lanning’s comments and thrive on the **** that is spewed forth. The tuth is a bridge too far for them.
14 Sep 2009, 11:25 am
The reality is that right now, the Boks just have that little bit extra to beat the ABs
This is new territory for them.
You have to feel for South Africans who support the ABs.
14 Sep 2009, 11:28 am
#133 Sheriff: even worse for them is that we have won in NZ 2 years in a row. Bodes well for the WC in NZ. We will be fearless as we know what it takes to beat them at home.
14 Sep 2009, 11:28 am
#133 Sheriff:
“You have to feel for South Africans who support the ABs.”
guess we have to…
NAAAAHHH…!!! Let’s not!!
14 Sep 2009, 11:41 am
#134 moedeloos:
I am delighted that both Richie and Dan were playing in that game.
Because if they didn’t the Kiwis would have moaned about that as well.
The ABs were overwhelmed in SA but bounced back nicely. Happy for them! Just not enough in the end!
14 Sep 2009, 11:44 am
#135 ufo:
I feel embarrassed for them.
The ABs would have identified positions 3, 10 and 15 as weaknesses in their pre 3N planning.
They must be so freaked out!
Aussies would be desperate this coming weekend!
14 Sep 2009, 11:45 am
In my opinion:
1. we need to take the second stringers on the end of year tour just the ABs usually do.
2. the next best fullback to steyn is jantjes not kirchner.
3. the next best scrumhalf to du preez is vermaak, then adams. januarie is past his sell by date.
4. the worry is in the locks, especially the ‘enforcer’ role. not convinced that sykes is the answer.
5. no real problems in the loose forward area.
6. ruan pienaar in at inside centre. sounds strange but he is a similar player to berrick barnes and it works for the aussies. centre is our biggest problem at the moment.
7. we need better cover on the wings. for a start we toured with the wrong twin. why does the coach always seem to choose the one that is playing least well?
14 Sep 2009, 11:55 am
#138 Soda:
Berrick has a sound tackling technique and most of all the mental aptitude for the pressure/physical attriction at 12.Ruan is NO inside centre.Leave him at 10 and let him battle it out.
Wings tier
Habana
Peterson
Odwa
Nokwe
Akona
Chavanga
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
van Heever
van Heever for all his “blistering 400m hurdle speed” could cut off adequately an ageing Jacques Botes on Saturday.
14 Sep 2009, 11:56 am
#138 Soda: Hi soda……can’t agree with pienaar at inside centre …. a centre needs an appetite for tackling , Pienaar does not like the physical stuff and therefore will be targetted !!
He has under delivered in all the roles he has been given, cannot see it being any different at inside centre .
14 Sep 2009, 11:56 am
couldnt
14 Sep 2009, 11:59 am
#138 Soda:
Even NZ are having a wing crisis
Rokocoko
Sivi
Jane
Wulf
Hosea
Masaga
Tuituvake
Hardly the juggernauts of yesteryr…All terrible under kick chase and speed wise arent the fastest around.
14 Sep 2009, 12:05 pm
I think many of us realise the need to develop more depth and the fact that we don’t actually have the depth we always thought we did. It’s been one of those subjects we’ve all conveniently forgotten about while the going’s been good, until a vital injury comes along and suddenly the topic rears it’s head again.
The truth is that in some areas we just don’t seem to have an able replacement. Jantjies in my eyes, before his injury, was looking well below par for an international fullback. He can kick far and catch but he does not posses a rugby brain. He offers zero creativity with the bog std up-and-under kick every time he gets the ball. Defences cotton on and it becomes all too easy to shut him down and hence Steyn’s unpredictability is hailed as one of his strengths from the back.
Pienaar on the other hand possesses an awesome book rugby brain and could adapt to fullback but doesn’t really posses the bulk or pace to make any difference when joining the line on attack. His pace on cover defence is also not ideal.
Scrumhalf is fine, Januarie is merely there to make up the numbers we all know that. Vermaak is waiting in the wings and has plenty to offer.
Centre is the big question though. I think Wynand, after his quality performances at domestic level, needs to be afforded some time and resource to develop for the Boks. If he plays kak again then drop him, but I would persist with him – good pace and his defence has been awesome at S14 and Currie Cup level, with some good running lines on attack and a reasonable pass. I don’t have a problem with Jacobs, he gets his man down but loses a few meters in the process and that can cost at International level.
14 Sep 2009, 12:07 pm
#142 mshiniwami:
Corey Jane is the future for the All Blacks in that list I would say.
14 Sep 2009, 12:14 pm
#115 mshiniwami:
Flip vd Merwe, Bakkies’ successor.
A bit early for Juan de Jongh, let’s see what he does towards the end of next year.
Fantastic prospect!
Nobody is talking about Morgan Newman anymore!
14 Sep 2009, 12:16 pm
#139 mshiniwami: I would add Mapoe to that list!
14 Sep 2009, 12:23 pm
#143 Yetirat:
Wynand “Meisiekind” Olivier’s problem is that he is too one dimensional.
The best I’ve seen of him was at S14 level.
Beyond that he has been found wanting. PdV will play Adi, but 2 things need to happen:
* Adi will have to regain his 2008 form
* A 3rd 12 or 13 will have to be identified in Jean’s place, big shoes to fill
14 Sep 2009, 12:40 pm
#142 mshiniwami: add rene ranger to that list, him & tuitavake are the starters for the junior all blacks. GH played kahui @ wing last year & he didn’t do too bad…
14 Sep 2009, 19:55 pm
#66 MightyQuin: Hahahaha wait till you see how the AB scrum fares against the Aussies on Saturday and then tell how good is Golds coaching. The ABs dont have a dominating scrum anymore.
Bok scrum not doing well over the last 2 years under your hero.
14 Sep 2009, 20:52 pm
#133 Sheriff: Hey Sherif I am sorry I missed you at that Lion’s test but what a game to come from nairobi to see! However, I do not feel in the least bit sorry for Saffer’s who support the AB’s. I can understand why they once might have, but today they are just sad cases….I feel they are chumps and should eat it….
14 Sep 2009, 21:07 pm
PdV is quite a changed fellow. Despite being a big detractor I have to say he is totally committed to his players and I think they know that- especially after his defence of Schalk. He has a happy squad and a humbler outlook. He has finally got the Total Rugby he demanded and I think all SA supporters owe him a cheers of thanks for 2008. Now if he can build thew depth we need……. well done so far PdV
15 Sep 2009, 01:11 am
Right on the money Jon, for the Boks too have any chance of continuing in their present form they need to have a ‘second’ team. Depth and (a better one than we had) rotation was the strength for the AB’s, never really short any where.
15 Sep 2009, 05:01 am
#152 captain fantail:
Rotation was a strength? Most people would point to the WC loss as a symptom of rotating the team too much.
You need about 25 players who are capable of starting the game and the team not losing much.
15 Sep 2009, 08:40 am
#151 peterg123: I also must take my hat off to him, and congratulate him and the coaching staff for a season very well done. I said before the Lions that I would reserve judgement until after the TN..well, he’s proved himself in the most emphatic way possible. Don’t think the detractors have any leg to stand on. Go Pdv, go Bokke!
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