Testing our next best
28 Sep 2009
Peter de Villiers has one more tour to expose his second tier players to the international stage, writes Keo in his weekly Business Day column.
This time next year will be a fine-tuning process for the World Cup campaign, so when it comes to developing the depth of the squad, it has to start in November in Europe, with the Italian one-off the obvious target for those who must provide cover in New Zealand in 2011.
The view that the Springboks are the best team in the world is unanimous, but equally emphatic is that the second tier is not as imposing.
What if there is no John Smit, Victor Matfield, Fourie du Preez and Jean de Villiers at the next World Cup? This is a leadership quartet unrivalled in the world order at present and one that has been central to the Springboks’ success since 2004.
Matfield and Du Preez would be the obvious captaincy replacements if Smit was injured or rested, while De Villiers has international leadership capabilities.
De Villiers and Frans Steyn won’t be selected for the end of season tour because they are playing club rugby in France and Ireland respectively. But it would be outrageous not to consider them in 2011 provided they are fit and in form. Where they play rugby in 2011 should be irrelevant, as De Villiers owes it to South African supporters to select the best available South Africans for New Zealand 2011.
De Villiers also has to use the November tour to advance transformation because no new South African-born black players have been developed since De Villiers became national coach in 2008. The only new non-white Springbok De Villiers has picked in two years is Bulls fullback Zane Kirchner, and he played in the dead rubber against the British & Irish Lions.
Jongi Nokwe, Adrian Jacobs, the Ndungane twins, Ricky Januarie and Chiliboy Ralepelle have all been in the national system for some time.
Fortunately for De Villiers there has been the emergence of exciting new talent, and even more fortunate is that he should be able to add a black forward to the abundance of black backline talent available.
Griquas loose-forward Jonathan Mokuena and Cheetahs loose-forward Ashley Johnson have made an impact in the Currie Cup and Cheetahs winger Lionel Mapoe is the best new wing talent, regardless of colour. That’s already three new faces De Villiers could add, while Western Province centre Juan de Jongh appears to have the X-factor.
De Villiers’s biggest challenge will be the management of his best players and the integration of the good young ones into a selection that provides balance and comfort and shows a coach can build, transform and win at the same time.
When you compare the standard of New Zealand’s domestic competition with the Currie Cup, you can see why South Africa currently has the edge over the Kiwis. At the moment South African rugby is blessed and we need to maximize this advantage because it can change very quickly.
The biggest question mark over the Springboks is whether they can be as potent without Matfield in the lineout or Smit’s leadership, and the tour allows De Villiers to play the one without the other. I’d still take both on tour, with the French Test in Toulouse as tough as the visit to Dublin.
What makes the Dublin showdown intriguing is former Bok forward coach Gert Smal’s presence in the Irish set-up. Smal knows the Bok lineout even better than Matfield and Bakkies Botha.
And currently it is the Bok lineout that defines the team’s supremacy, as they are guaranteed a first-phase platform and the contesting skills of Matfield and company means no opponent can take lineout ball as a given.
Everyone knows how good Matfield is, but I don’t think everyone appreciates just how significant he is to the woes of the opposition.
Equally, who is the replacement for Du Preez, should he be injured? Januarie plays a different game and his strengths ensure an alternative, yet less potent, approach. Bulls scrumhalf-turned winger Francois Hougaard is the Du Preez clone, but will De Villiers be bold enough to pick Hougaard as the back up to Du Preez?
With (Jean) de Villiers also not selected will Wynand Olivier be given the No 12 jersey or will Jacobs be the go to man?
Rarely has Currie Cup form been so relevant in asking questions of national squad importance because rarely in the last decade has the Currie Cup consistently been of such a good standard.
246 Comments
28 Sep 2009, 12:47 pm
Business day Dragon is here!
28 Sep 2009, 12:56 pm
Jonathan Mokuena, Ashley Johnson, Lionel Mapoe, Juan de Jongh are all good options for the future.
Others deserving at least a chance to be included on the EOYT are Stegmann, Dewaldt Potgieter, Duanne Vermeulen.
28 Sep 2009, 13:00 pm
I believe this touring squad will be bigger, as their will be some mid-week games on this tour too???
I think it is a massive ask to pick a youngster, whether it be a young white Hougaard or coloured/black De Jongh straight from CC to test level.
Any event when last did Hougaard start at 9?
It destroyed Meyer Bosman and might well destroy these players as-well.
Super 14 is the base our Boks should be built around.
We have 150 players in the Super rugby squads, more than enough to pick around.
28 Sep 2009, 13:10 pm
Dewaldt Potgieter is absoultely fantastic. Reminds me of Schalk in his early days. He has a workrate like no other.
He is really going to be pushing Smith and Schalk for that number 7 jersey in 2011.
28 Sep 2009, 13:11 pm
“De Villiers also has to use the November tour to advance transformation because no new South African-born black players have been developed since De Villiers became national coach in 2008. The only new non-white Springbok De Villiers has picked in two years is Bulls fullback Zane Kirchner, and he played in the dead rubber against the British & Irish Lions.”
This is utter garbage.
Beast was introduced. Mujati was there. The Springboks had an all-black front row on the field for the first time. Jacobs was first choice 13 last year which is something that White and his prdecessors never contemplated.
De Villiers is also looking to cast his net further and needs the Super 14 and CC coaches to come to the party.
Shame on keo.co.za yet again.
28 Sep 2009, 13:17 pm
#3 PissAnt:
Agreed PA, S14 form should be the only measuring stick for the case of inclusion of new players into the Bok squad
#2 WP Till I Die:
No Deysel?
28 Sep 2009, 13:17 pm
I would hate to see guys like Spies, Bakkies, Matfiel, Smit, Habana, Fourie, Juan Smith and Beast play all the games on the EOYT.
What drive is there for them to play against the likes of Scotland and Wales?
Have the up and coming guys play a few games. It cant hurt to have Kankovski, Bekker, Chiliboy, Mapoe, De jong, Ruan (@9), Nokwe get some decent game time while some of the warhorses take a bit of a breather.
Some will fail but some might not.
28 Sep 2009, 13:18 pm
#5 Mike Brass:
To be fair he said “South African-born black players”. Beast and Mujatis are both zimbo’s.
28 Sep 2009, 13:19 pm
#6 Ruggaluvva: the Namibian, Sharks, Southern Kings & Wallaby supporter:
Yip, Deysel as well.
28 Sep 2009, 13:22 pm
#7 Dumb Supporter:
We only play Italy, Ireland and France.
28 Sep 2009, 13:25 pm
What about giving fringe players more time?
Chilli and Andries need to start a game and not just fill in for 2 mins when the game is won. Italy would be the game to see what they’ve got without losing a test.
28 Sep 2009, 13:27 pm
#11 ruggaboy:
Correct, the guys that featured in the Lions 3rd test should be the ones the back up is built around.
28 Sep 2009, 13:28 pm
#8 Sonito: It’s a cop-out from their side which ignores that de Villiers has been giving non-White players more exposure than they received under his predecessors. It also needs to be seen against the backdrop of many prior postings on this site which increased in intensity once Keo hooked up with White’s company.
28 Sep 2009, 13:28 pm
#11 ruggaboy: I agree entirely.
28 Sep 2009, 13:34 pm
Our second 15 should look like this more or less;
1. Guthro
2. Chili/Strauss/Liebenberg
3. Jannie
4. Muller
5. Bekker
6. Schalk
7. Potgieter
8. Kanko
9. January
10. Ruan
11. Nokwe
12. Wynand
13. Adi
14. Odwa
15. Kirchner
Then look at the weaker areas and perhaps add one or two more guys in there that could pressure the ones second in line.
28 Sep 2009, 13:35 pm
#12 PissAnt: Yeah its not only about being exposed to international rugby but also about forming combinations and understanding amongst players. The fact that Morne played with FdP at Bulls helped him enormously in settling into the Bok set-up in my opinion. PDV’s idea of letting them get used to the Bok set-up is great but he has to give them game time in their combinations for it to work.
I am not his biggest fan but I reckon Ricky has been at a disadvantage not being able to have time to work with Pierre and MOrne etc. When he comes on as a sub he is made to look incompetent when I don’t think he is.
28 Sep 2009, 13:37 pm
#16 bananaboy:
And about getting time in the middle.
Those fringe Boks have had very little of that.
28 Sep 2009, 13:42 pm
#17 PissAnt: Agree – They are therefore not match fit and inadequately prepared to even fill in.
28 Sep 2009, 13:42 pm
I Keo is also banging the same drum regarding selecting overseas players. He reckons that PdeV owes it to the SA supporters. Neither Jean nor Frans seemed to feel they owed their supporters anything, although Jean has only signed for one year.
28 Sep 2009, 13:43 pm
Johnson is too slow (even though he has had a great CC so far)… Jonah is not better than Mboyo (sic)… but none are better than adding Stegman, Potgieter and Vermeulen (as a spare trio) even Louw, Deysel, Alberts are bubbling under before… I could care less about ‘the RSA numbers game’ at test level…
Certainly going to be interesting seeing an extended squad (which it really has to be with the mid-weekers)…
I’d be more concerned with 9, TH, lock, FB back-up to the 1st XXII…
28 Sep 2009, 13:45 pm
# 15 Pissant
Good side, but I would swop Muller for Anton Van Zyl. He would provide similar grunt to Bakkies, but better ball skills, and is, I think a bit younger than Muller. And I would bring in the FS TH for Jannie Dup.
28 Sep 2009, 13:46 pm
#15 PissAnt:
What about the rest of the 22… there-in lies the conundrum…
16 ?
17 sorted above
18 Danie
19 Vermeulen
20 ?
21 Murray
22 ?
28 Sep 2009, 13:48 pm
#21 lion4ever:
I basically just listed the Boks in the 3rd test and some emerging Boks, like I mentioned, look at the weaker areas and fill in.
#19 David:
Quite correct.
PDV is on record to say that he will look locally first, if there is no-one good enough for test rugby he will select the guys overseas.
PDV’s policy is sound and 100% correct.
Why do you think SA is not sitting with the same extent of the problem NZ and Aus are sitting with their players heading off overseas where our players (most of them) sign locally?
28 Sep 2009, 13:53 pm
#22 money_man:
16. Strauss/Liebenberg
17 & 18. (Props: WP Nel, Wian du Preez, Deon Carstens, and even Brock)
19. Forgot about Danie but back up locks: Van Zyl, Sykes, David de Villiers
20. Loosies – too many to mention
21. Scrummy – Adams, Duvenhage, Hougaard (Kockett, Jano)
22. Newman, De Jongh, Mapoe, and so many more.
28 Sep 2009, 13:56 pm
#23 PissAnt:
I think both our views about this are on record. I just wonder why Keo and his guys keep on about it. One thought that crossed my mind is that Keo is in the pay of Johan Rupert, who would love to get his hands on more Boks for the Saracens.
The only prospect he’s currently signed is now in line for an England cap.
28 Sep 2009, 13:57 pm
#15 PissAnt: Janury???
nie eens verder gelees toe ek dit sien nie… 
28 Sep 2009, 13:58 pm
#23 Pissant,
True, you said that, but I would look at some players that have really excelled this year, both in CC and S14, and see how they fare.
Use Italy as the main experiment, plus the 2 midweek games, and rest the main manne for the France and Ireland, but maybe we need them to have some time against Italy to gel again before the 2 big boys. Tough decisions the coach has to make.
28 Sep 2009, 13:59 pm
#25 David:
Its easy to work out.
Keo does not want the Boks White selected and coached to go overseas and for PDV to develop his own team to conquer the rugby world leaving White with no glory other than a World Cup people called us lucky to win
28 Sep 2009, 14:01 pm
#26 Staal:
Ek probeer soos die coach dink Staal, of ons nou laaik of nie die man gaan daar wees.
Jy kan bly wees ek het nie Rose genoem nie!
#27 lion4ever:
Tough indeed, the balance is a very fine one.
I would prefer if he went for experienced guys and only look to blood youngsters in problem areas like prop, lock, scrummy and wing/fullback
28 Sep 2009, 14:03 pm
First and foremost Mr Keohane, there are no “Non-Whites” in South Africa, if you are going to call people Non-whites, them you might as well use the K-word, it has the same derogatory meaning.
2nd:
I dont think Jonathan Mokoena or Ashley Johnson have done enough to be picked ahead of Vermeulen, Potgieter, Watson, Deysel, Steggman even Keegan Daniels for that matter, they shouldnt be picked.
3rd:
We never called Ray Morndt, Adrian Garvey, Gary Teichmann, Bob Skinstad, Corne krige “zimbos”, why the constant reference to zimbos for Beast and Mujati?
4th:
“”Fortunately for De Villiers there has been the emergence of exciting new talent, and even more fortunate is that he should be able to add a black forward to the abundance of black backline talent available.”"
There has always been emerging black talent, its not new, Solly Tyibika has three international Man of the Match awards all achieved against George Smith ( 2x for Sharks and once for Sprinbok).Its all about how you manage your players as a coach
28 Sep 2009, 14:07 pm
The question is can wp pull off the upset at Newlands. I think they stand a really good chance, pvd’s ability as a coach shouldn’t be underestimated.
28 Sep 2009, 14:08 pm
I propose a Rugby tax on future stars.
And a tax for supporters. This will be the only way to save the Springbok.
28 Sep 2009, 14:09 pm
It’s a pity that Ernst Joubert left. I could see him developing into a 7/4 in the Rossouw and AJ mould, although Alberts is also starting to fit that bill.
With the new bench laws it should be possible, though, to include a specialist 4 and 5 on the bench instead of one and a utility.
28 Sep 2009, 14:10 pm
I see we have the usual pill poppers in the room.
28 Sep 2009, 14:10 pm
#27 lion4ever: I’d beware of experimenting too much against Italy, Australia only just got past them last year in Padova, NZ had trouble with them this year and Mallet knows the Boks inside out. A loss to Italy would be hard to live down.
28 Sep 2009, 14:15 pm
#35 Big Hit: Italy already gave Kanko a big fright.
28 Sep 2009, 14:18 pm
#35 Big Hit:
Yes, next to England that would be highly embarrassing. BTW how is the British Commonwealth & England side looking.
28 Sep 2009, 14:20 pm
F@ck Wynand and give the no12 jersey to De jong. Im sick of blue bulls being pushed into the bok side when we have adequate cover at other provinces. Do you know why nz will always be better than us its because of provincial bias to certain franchises. Didn’t you guys ever wonder why new zealand ended up with three teams in the super14 semi finals. Im my eyes having the x factor means you the best man for the job.
28 Sep 2009, 14:20 pm
#30 XhosaKid:
You could have chained Solly to his bed at night, he still would have gone on walkabout.
As good as Solly may have been, dont blame the coach for this players rank inability to behave himself. He had a rap sheet a mile long with several different coaches.
28 Sep 2009, 14:21 pm
#37 David: injury strewn sadly
28 Sep 2009, 14:23 pm
provincial bias in sa that is
28 Sep 2009, 14:24 pm
Wonder what Julius malema is up to today??
28 Sep 2009, 14:25 pm
#30 XhosaKid: Good post. Only one minor error: Corne is not a Zimbo, he’s a Zambian, same as his compatriot Gregan.
28 Sep 2009, 14:25 pm
The number 12 jersey its a toss up between de jong and jacobs.
28 Sep 2009, 14:28 pm
Im sure if De jong can hack it in the currie cup he shouldnt have to much trouble with italy.
28 Sep 2009, 14:29 pm
#33 David:
Too small at 102kgs 193cm for lock… despite his obvious excellent game over the last several seasons… best to blood young specialists most of them Sykes, Steenkamp, Fondse, Van Zyl are pretty athletic anyway and 2m 112kg plus…
28 Sep 2009, 14:29 pm
Kirschner and jantjies for the no15 jumper.
28 Sep 2009, 14:30 pm
#39 John Galt:
There is far more to the Solly story than ever got reported. One is that the day before the Lions told the press he couldn’t be contacted he was standing 20 metres from their deputy CEO and development officer and then played in the Easter club tournament a little later, watched by both.
Solly had had enough of the racial slurs and digs at his Bok selection by his own team mates. He didn’t select himself and all he wanted to do was to play rugby.
28 Sep 2009, 14:31 pm
#44 Wezwp: #47 Wezwp: some interesting analysis there Wezwp. I think all those players you mentioned will tour but I can see the rationale for Olivier at 12 too if Steyn is 10.
28 Sep 2009, 14:32 pm
Two words for solly deysel and botes.
28 Sep 2009, 14:32 pm
#38 Wezwp: So you are sick of the Boks being so successful?
Are you one of them WP NZ supporters club people?
28 Sep 2009, 14:33 pm
#45 Wezwp:
Nup… Meisiekind will get it… the form 12 of the S14 and in fine form… deservedly so… I could care less that he plays for the Bulls… get over it…
28 Sep 2009, 14:33 pm
I also feel that young players need to be “managed” into higher levels!
But having said that, why is it so easy for Aussie/NZ players to fit into international stage (Super 14/Tests) so easily?
I think of James O’Conner(18) and Owen Franks(21) at them moment… young guys who did their job at higher level!
De Jongh, Hougarrd and Mapoe have what it takes to step up on the EOYT!
I would like to see the following players up for a EOYT spot:-
1/3 – W. Blaauw / WP Nel / C. Oosthuizen
2 – T. Liebernberg / A. Strauss
4/5 – W. Steenkamp / S. Sykes
6/7/8 – J. Deysel / D. Vermuelen / D. Stegmann
9 – F. Hougaard / R. Kockett / J. Vermaak
11/14 – L. Mapoe / G. van den Heerver
12/13 – J. de Jongh / R. Ebersohn
Only new caps mentioned…
Would’ve loved for Wilton Pieterson to get a go at the EOYT! Anyone know when he’ll be playing top flight rugby again?
28 Sep 2009, 14:35 pm
Same old story.
Some people will go on CC performance, but will turn a blind eye to S14 form, nevermind Springbok form!
What gives?
28 Sep 2009, 14:36 pm
Oliver doesn’t have enough creativity in midfield thats because hes no Berrick Barnes.
28 Sep 2009, 14:37 pm
#39 John Galt: I know, actually I know him personally, He loves his beer and strange dodgy places
!!
28 Sep 2009, 14:37 pm
37 players apparently going on tour….with a fixture on the 17th nov vs saracens to be finalised.
28 Sep 2009, 14:37 pm
It has been my feeling for a while now that we almost ned to get all these youngsters everyone is talking about, get them into a squad together and let them start playing as a 2nd unit, whether they are out playing Samoa, Tonga, Kenya, Namibia, England, you know … all the second tier teams LOL, no but seriously if you keep a group of outstanding players together for long enough they will be unstoppable just like our boks now that have all played together since ’03 and some before.
28 Sep 2009, 14:37 pm
#55 Wezwp: sure he does, he created a try for Ugo Monye in the 3rd test
28 Sep 2009, 14:37 pm
#54 Puppet-Obama:
Every year the same indeed… must be the pap-saks in the shade of Newland… cracks me up every year this time without fail…
28 Sep 2009, 14:38 pm
What are the toughts of Anton Van Zyl – he seems to be making a big impact at Province this season, and was also quite ipmpressive with the lions!!
Province Players for EOYT
Joe Pietersen
Juan De Jongh
Januarie
Schalk
Duane Vermeulen
Andries Bekker
Then possibles
Aplon
Van Zyl
Wicus Blauw
Peter Grant (but he’s probably had his time)
Watson (controversial but playing well enough, Bath might have solved that problem)
Any others??
28 Sep 2009, 14:38 pm
Why go for combinations when you only as good as your weakest link.
28 Sep 2009, 14:39 pm
#58 Timbo: I have to agree with you. Makes perfect sense.
28 Sep 2009, 14:41 pm
Francois Steyn wasn’t picked on S14 or Springbok form yet he still excelled. It’s the unknown factor that gives them that edge.
28 Sep 2009, 14:43 pm
#60 money_man: Unfortunately, rugby only have place for 15 players on the field at any given time.
IMO CC is a far cry from S14 and National duty. It`s ludicrous to even want to pick a CC player over an established S14 one. There is no need to rush youngsters into the big time.
Seems to me there is people with Brain Freeze down south calling on changes.
28 Sep 2009, 14:43 pm
You calling for van zyl in the eoyt squad. You must be a Ronderbosch boy.
28 Sep 2009, 14:45 pm
Id rather rush the youngsters now then in 2011.
28 Sep 2009, 14:45 pm
#64 Wezwp: He wasn`t that good to start with. He is only now coming into his own. Granted, he has all the talent in the world.
28 Sep 2009, 14:56 pm
My 37….all being fit ansd available of course
15 Kirchner
J Pietersen
14 JPP
L Mapoe
13 J FOurie
J De jongh
12 W Olivier
A Jacobs
11 b Habana
O Ndugane
10 M Steyn
P Grant
9 F DU Preez
R Pienaar
E Januarie
8 P Spies
Kankowski
7 Dewalt potgieter
S Burger
J Deysel
6 Brussow
Mbizo
5 matfield
Bekker
4 Bakkies
A van Zyl
3 J Smit
J du plessis
2 Bissy
T Liebenberg
Maku
1 beast
Guthro
Additional; W Murray….A Johnson….D Steggmann….d rossouw
28 Sep 2009, 15:10 pm
#69 grant10: Faan Rautenbach received good reviews for his scrummaging at the weekend. At 6ft 3 and 20st he’s quite the unit, but not exactly the future at 33.
28 Sep 2009, 15:13 pm
My Bok squad of 37
1.Guthro/Beast
2.Bismarck/Liebenberg(both chilli/strauss injured)
3.Smit/WP Nel(new cap)
Utility Prop-Jannie DuP
4.Rossouw/F.vd Merwe(new cap)
5.Matfield/Bekker
Rest Bakkies
6.Brussow/Burger
7.Vermeulen/Deysel
8.Kankowski/Potgieter
Rest Spies,Smith
9.Du Preez/January
10.M.Steyn/Grant
11.Habana/Nokwe
12.Jacobs/Olivier
13.Fourie/De Jongh
14.JPP/Ndungane
15.Kirchner
Utility Back:Pienaar
Extra 6 members:
Mapoe
F.Hougaard(utility role)
J.Vermaak
S.Sykes
B.Basson
***Bolter as last name dont know who it will be(Mbiyozo/Rose/Johnson/Blaauw,J.Peterson,F.Louw etc)
28 Sep 2009, 15:13 pm
Iv seen Faan in a club game here in cape town and that guy is a monster come Scrum time.
28 Sep 2009, 15:14 pm
#70 Big Hit: Hi BH….thanks for the update…
I know Faan from Stormers days….was a potent scrummager but not much else…..
Was in a meeting today…1 of the guys there knows a lot of the WP guys as well as Rassie….so i got some interesting snippets!!
There will be a lot of comings and goungs prior to 2010 Super 14…..1 thing for sure…WP/ Stormers are deadly serious …..
28 Sep 2009, 15:16 pm
#71 mshiniwami: Very good….Mbizo is apparently a definite.
28 Sep 2009, 15:26 pm
#73 grant10: any mention of NH players?
28 Sep 2009, 15:26 pm
#74 grant10:
Mbiyozo hasnt played any rugby since Spears/7′s circuit.
He is definite according to THIS SITE who has more “open secrets” than a common *****.
Good player but not Bok ready IMO.Must play 15′s consistently in 2010 to prove it
28 Sep 2009, 15:36 pm
#75 Big Hit: Not really BH…
#76 mshiniwami: His inclusion was mentioned in Rapport…never saw it here boet…..but it is an injustice that such a talent has failed to secure a CC contract.
28 Sep 2009, 15:43 pm
This article presupposes that it’s necessary to expose all this talent the highest level in one fell swoop… I disagree on a couple of levels…
Firstly… We moan about the NH teams sending us second string teams to learn about international rugby every year. Virtually everyone on this site including Keo and Co have complained about exactly that many times… I believe we have to show Italy full respect and put our best on the field against them… to do anything else would smack of extreme arrogance… I also see not a little of Jake White fleeing in Keo’s ear on this one… remembering his dumming down of the 3N in 2007…
Secondly… To start a bunch of newbies in matches where the opposition are all going to be up big-time to have a crack at the World Champs is asking for trouble… as happened in the third Lion’s test… A lot of potentially great careers will plough straight into the peer…
Thirdly… the best time to introduce young players is when they have experienced guys around them to show them the ropes and pass on the winning culture…
Lastly… PdViva!! Has finally established a winning culture for the first time since readmission where the supporters now EXPECT the Boks to win as opposed to HOPING they will win as has always been the case… Why mess with that now…? It would be madness IMO…
Identify a group of the best up-and-coming players and take them and manage their introduction carefully…
As for PdViva!! identifying who those players are… I have every faith in him… No coach in the history of Springbok rugby has ever picked a squad so universally supported as the current one. Very few supporters can have very little to say in disagreeing with PdViva’s!! selections…
28 Sep 2009, 15:43 pm
#71 mshiniwami:
nice squad that ….. I would give my left nut for steyn to still be there at 15 still no use crying over spilt cafe au lait…
28 Sep 2009, 15:52 pm
#74 grant10: his inclusion will be wrong for many reasons, I would advise against it. If PDV has to pick black players then the following should be considered, numbering doesnt reflect position
1. Guthro,
2. Beast
3. Chilliboy
4. Januarie
5 Habana
6. Chavanga
7. De Jongh ( suprise package)
8. Adi
9. JPP
10. Nokwe
11. Zane
12. Mapoe
with 6 or 7 of these making the first 15, that should do the “numbers game” well and Bhorat can be happy
28 Sep 2009, 16:09 pm
#74 grant10: are you dyslexic? It is M B I Y O Z O, not MBIZO…
28 Sep 2009, 16:11 pm
Mbiyozo should go to the Lions, with Baywatch leaving that’s about the only place where he would make the starting xv. If he impresses over 13 games in the s14, then we can talk about him becoming a Springbok. Potentially the second best openside flanker in the land, if Schalk’s move to the blindside is permanent.
28 Sep 2009, 16:13 pm
mbiyozo played one exhibition game & a lot of sevens rugby, albeit very well, but that cannot guarantee or make him a definite for selection to the springboks
28 Sep 2009, 16:22 pm
Many people are against the idea of picking a young player for the test arena after a few good games in the CC.
This certainly is valid in some cases but there are also cases when it is not.
An important issue is to compare the youngster’s performance to current springboks who play in the same CC competition.
As an example, if Mapoe is breaking tackles and scoring tries, what is Ngungane doing when he is playing. Saying that the young star is only looking good in a watered-down CC and that it is not test rugby is one thing, but are you still backing a current springbok who is not really shining?
Doesn’t this lack consistency?
28 Sep 2009, 16:36 pm
#82 mxhosa:
The only problem with that is, he’ll be lost to EP and the S.Ks. How SARU allowed the Sharks to take sole ownership of the Coastal Sharks franchise is an absolute disgrace.
28 Sep 2009, 16:39 pm
#84 Dumb Supporter: There is a competition called the S14.Soon to be S15.
Put your hand up there and you are worth a second look.
28 Sep 2009, 16:47 pm
#81 Pearl Rose: apologies to you and Mbiyozo
28 Sep 2009, 16:50 pm
For me Mapoe and Juan De Jongh are real deal players who deserve the EOYT opportunity…..even though they havent played Super rugby.
Mbiyozo ….i agree….let him get some more rugby under the belt.
28 Sep 2009, 16:50 pm
#87 grant10: lol you got tackler’d with your spelling
28 Sep 2009, 16:54 pm
#89 Big Hit: blindsided ….more my **** typing !!
28 Sep 2009, 16:56 pm
#30 XhosaKid:
Very soon Mr Keohane will find himself as the only non-black at a director’s meeting.
The problem with these “non-labels” is that it assumes that the part that follows after the “non” is the desired or dominant state of being.
To be fair tho, whites are not the only racists – many of them are racist no doubt, I need not tell you that – but they’re certainly not the only racists.
I think we should recognise that, they were the FIRST racists, but certainly not the only racists.
For example: Trevor Manuel our long serving Fin Minister in a normal society should have been a logical successor to Mbeki.
However, that is not possible cause he is not African Black.
We have a long way to go with this issue.
28 Sep 2009, 16:59 pm
#87 grant10:
shame on you…
28 Sep 2009, 17:00 pm
#92 gunther: my shame knows no boundaries
28 Sep 2009, 17:02 pm
i support your 2 nd last para….but he is the main power anyway…
28 Sep 2009, 17:05 pm
Just something on Luke Watson.
The kid is playing some of his best rugby, in a sense even better than in 2006 when he should have been selected by Jackal.
But the kid is too serious. He takes himself too seriously.
No doubt he is a natural leader, but he should demonstrate that he has a lighter side to him as well. Smile a bit when on the park.
I wish someone will point that out to the kid.
28 Sep 2009, 17:07 pm
Keo, we need to end this focus on transformation. Just focus on talent irrespective of colour.
28 Sep 2009, 17:10 pm
#91 Sheriff:
I was also going to comment on that description, then realised that what he was trying to say was they were the only Boks who weren’t white. Unfortunately, Keo seems to lack sensitivity on the history of the term.
28 Sep 2009, 17:17 pm
#97 David: agree david, what other way can he say it? he didn’t mean desired or dominant.
28 Sep 2009, 17:24 pm
I think its difficult picking bolter selections without any super experience, only liebenberg has proven his consistency thus far, from the mentioned players. That said they all very talented and thrown into a organised setup like the boks, im sure they wudnt let anyone down. And this eyot and nxt yr super 14 is the last opportunity to unearth new talent before the wc
28 Sep 2009, 17:27 pm
does anyone know of what the surprise selections could be?
28 Sep 2009, 17:32 pm
#97 David:
What was OK in 2001 (to write) is no longer acceptable.
SA like any other society continually evolves, of course in our case it is so much more pronounced coming from our diabolical past.
Keo’s audience in this case the Business Day, mostly white, 40+ and male. In their world, for that matter his own world as well, it is still OK to talk about “non-white” because deep down being white is still the desired state of being.
What I enjoy/like how they go to extremes to try and convince us that they are not like that. But we know better.
It must be tough being a journalist but then again I dont think anybody is forced to become one, in other words, we should challenge their views.
28 Sep 2009, 17:36 pm
#101 Sheriff: Perfectly put.
28 Sep 2009, 17:39 pm
#100 Mustard: Mapoe has been mentioned by PDV hasn’t he?
28 Sep 2009, 17:44 pm
@ 103 big hit, not sure, i dont follow the media much but il take your word for it. Good selection think he will be a star, we need at least one quality reserve wing and right now we dont
28 Sep 2009, 17:46 pm
#101 Sheriff: you mean stuff like this?
725. Sheriff :
August 27th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Anyone who wants a practical illustration of what some of these ethnic ANC politicians mean, when they refer to transformation, only need to look to our northern neighbour.
Zim.
They talk about this thing all the time, but privately they’re actually referring to transFERmation. That’s why, when you join their ranks, you need to at least have a bank account.
28 Sep 2009, 17:49 pm
#102 Mike Brass:
This is the generation who is setting the strategic direction for SA at the moment, here Im referring to the business world. They have been and continue to do so.
This is the generation who has learnt to talk a new language, a language that embraces transformation (AA, EE etc)but are not quite convince that this is the way forward. They talk it, but they dont walk it.
2 key things that have emerged over the last 6-12 months:
a. SA companies top management structures continue to be dominated by white male, there are improvements but it is clear that the resistance is huge – based on Labour Minister’s findings
b. Wealth distrib – Goeni coef I think is the measurement – SA apparently has the biggest gap between rich and poor;again we know what segment has the resources so clearly they’re not letting go one bit
These are facts. There is nothing malicious about me stating these. We should not fool ourselves, but remain realistic of the challenge.
28 Sep 2009, 17:51 pm
@ 105, is this a political thread? Last time i checkd this was a rugby blog and the article refers the upcoming eyot
28 Sep 2009, 17:51 pm
#105 Pearl Rose: How sad is it that you can actually find a post from over a month ago? Is there a search function on this blog? Please tell me that you haven’t a) remembered that post from a month ago; b) searched through old stories to find that quote; c) had that quote saved to a file on you pc.
28 Sep 2009, 17:52 pm
#91 Sheriff: so trevor should’ve been? like that bastion of democracy called the united states only had it’s first black president in the 21st century? so malcom x maybe should’ve been the american president!
28 Sep 2009, 17:53 pm
#108 crazy ******: look closely it’s a year ago…
28 Sep 2009, 17:57 pm
What’s with all these cheap shots at the Currie Cup?
28 Sep 2009, 18:03 pm
#110 Pearl Rose: Er, ok…so even worse then. Seriously, how did you manage to find a post from more than a year ago?
28 Sep 2009, 18:04 pm
#101 Sheriff:
I mentioned the lack of sensitivity in my original post. I was also about to post an explaination in response to BH, when lightning tripped the whole bloody house!
I agree, Keo should have been aware of the meaning of the phrase. Sometimes, however, he does go out of his way to prove that he isn’t politicall correct.
28 Sep 2009, 18:06 pm
#105 Pearl Rose:
Thanks Pearl.
I suppose you’re trying to say to me that Im contradicting myself. Of course, one has to wonder why someone would want to keep that sort of arbitrary comment posted more than a year ago. That gives us a clue of your real identity, but that’s OK.
Im saying both are wrong. Zim as well of the situation in SA Im referring to.
That’s my view – perhaps you can convince me otherwise with methods are than showing my posts (said in a certain context of course) in 2008. Lets hear your OWN views.
28 Sep 2009, 18:08 pm
I have a feeling that Pearl is on Keos staff or is at least part of the company.
Am I right, Pearl?
28 Sep 2009, 18:12 pm
#109 Pearl Rose:
Pearl, again:
Trevor could have been.
Why bring in the US of A here; are you there? Who cares what they do? They must sort out their own matters.
Is Obama a reincarnation of Malcolm? He has the look but needs the glasses and will have to adjust his speech delivery.
28 Sep 2009, 18:16 pm
#114 Sheriff: #115 David: It’s actually pretty pathetic. If Keo feels that he needs to come out and defend himself, why not just come out and do it, instead of making one of his lackey’s trawl through old posts to try to target a member on his site?
28 Sep 2009, 18:19 pm
#112 crazy ******: keo is on the world wide web, you just google a poignant thread & voila…bob’s your aunt.
28 Sep 2009, 18:21 pm
#117 crazy ******:
I don’t think Keo really cares and doubt if he instructed anyone to defend him. As I said, at times he likes to show he’s not PC.
28 Sep 2009, 18:22 pm
#118 Pearl Rose:
Uncle, unless he’s ***.
28 Sep 2009, 18:23 pm
#117 crazy ******: you are way off base with your assumption.
28 Sep 2009, 18:24 pm
#118 Pearl Rose: Ok, so you don’t work for Keo, you just don’t have an opinion of your own…and seemingly quite a lot of time on your hands.
28 Sep 2009, 18:24 pm
this site is somewhat losing it’s appeal.
28 Sep 2009, 18:27 pm
So what is the correct term the pollies and Buthana’s of RSA use to describe players that are not caucasian went counting sports teams?
28 Sep 2009, 18:36 pm
Well well well if it isn’t the infamous Sheriff. What happened to You mate? Dont tell me also started your own rugby blog.
28 Sep 2009, 18:37 pm
Sheriff is the John Locke of Keo. While mark is More like Benjamin.
28 Sep 2009, 18:39 pm
#38 Wezwp: sorry man ,im a sharks suporter,but um what did the blue bulls do in this years s14 ?? provinvial bias what a load …
Wp supporters are always saying how thier players should be springboks,wyand is our 2nd best 12 …wp are like the poms in the sense that they overate their players -f@ck wynand olivier …who are you kiding
28 Sep 2009, 18:40 pm
#124 money_man: Basically, considering the demographics of SA, we should really just be referring to black people as “Zulu, Xhosa, Ndebele, Sotho, etc.”, coloured people as “Mixed race”, Chinese & Indians as “Asians” and white people as “so called non-black”. White English speaking people can be called “White Europeans” and Afrikaaners can be “Mixed Europeans or European Other” considering their Dutch and French heritage.
FYI – I’m joking, but I’ll bet someone doesn’t read this far before replying.
28 Sep 2009, 18:44 pm
#128 crazy ******:
You obviously haven’t read “The SuperAfrikaaners” and the racial makeup of some Afrikaanerdoms best known families.
28 Sep 2009, 18:44 pm
I vote for more mixed europeans.
28 Sep 2009, 18:46 pm
#129 David: I haven’t read it, but I’m assuming that we should then change that name to “Afropean”?
28 Sep 2009, 18:46 pm
More Mixed europeans in the eoyt or the Autumn internationals like the British would say.
28 Sep 2009, 18:48 pm
Who are the Super Afrikaaners???
28 Sep 2009, 18:53 pm
breaking news: Wp boss signs Loti Tuquiri for $500 000.
28 Sep 2009, 18:56 pm
#114 Sheriff: my pleasure sheriff, on the contrary though i was actually trying to augment your argument. In that things one might have thought/ said even in as recent a past as last year can & do evolve.
A recent example, people’s opinions on peter de villiers’ coaching acumen or trevor manuel’s once overt support for the all blacks.
Well as in most things in life, there are exceptions, for example: jake white’s fixation with the size of loose forwards. Last year he was quoted as saying “schalk burger, just recently the rugby player in the world is substituted and replaced with luke watson, i don’t understand that”
This year he was quoted saying that heinrich brussow doesn’t give the springboks another lineout option and that schalk won irb player of the year and in his mind heinrich won’t win that award. So clearly mr white’s views on schalk burger are set in concrete.
28 Sep 2009, 18:57 pm
#131 crazy ******:
Yes, that’s about right.
#133 Wezwp:
It was a book that came out in the ’80s, I think, that traced the history and racial make up of some of the better known afrikaans families and names, including senior Nat politicians. It caused an uproar at the time because it claimed that they all had black or coloured blood. It certainly didn’t go down well with the HNP because it listed the Mulders, amongst them.
28 Sep 2009, 19:01 pm
#136 David:
Actually I got that wrong. The Super Afrikaaners was about the Broederbond. I’m trying to remember the correct book.
28 Sep 2009, 19:04 pm
…… so that makes Hansie Cronje a Afrikaaner with black or coloured blood.
28 Sep 2009, 19:05 pm
I’m also getting my spelling screwed up. Afrikaners, with one a. I apologise to anyone I may have offended with the mis spelling.
28 Sep 2009, 19:06 pm
oh **** don’t even mention the broederbond.
28 Sep 2009, 19:07 pm
#138 Wezwp:
Probably. The point is, who cares? It just made a mockery of the whole apartheid philosophy and its’ proponents.
28 Sep 2009, 19:44 pm
#125 Wezwp:
Things changed a bit here on my side so keo time scaled down.
But Im happy with that, I think I was blogging too much at one stage.
One consistent fear or anxiety here on keo is that if Im not blogging here then I must be blogging on rugbytalk. Why is that?
As an aside, lightning just hit my pc so Im pretty concerned as Im typing here on my wife’s laptop. No power whatsoever. Heard loud noise and everything. Eish…
perhaps the techies can help; can it just be the power supply?
28 Sep 2009, 19:47 pm
#142 Sheriff:
Same thing happened to me, as I mentioned. You also in Jhb?
28 Sep 2009, 19:48 pm
#135 Pearl Rose:
But I do think if we change opinion then we must be able to explain ourselves.
Life is a journey of learning.
28 Sep 2009, 19:52 pm
#143 David:
Pretoria.
Funny thing is I was about to say that I hope all ok there on your side when it happened. Bizarre.
I know I made back-ups on Norton but worried now about how I will retrieve
28 Sep 2009, 19:55 pm
#145 Sheriff:
Where did you backup too? The Windows backup is a farce if you’re restoring to a brand new installation. Next time get a Mac, the backup is awesome.
By the way, you can’t just blog on RT, you need to be approved first, although I have no idea of the criteria. The pencil test?
28 Sep 2009, 20:01 pm
gents…..we will arrive when we ars SAFFAS….AND NOTHING BUT SAFFAS!!!
Bloody tribes that divide us…..
I just want to be a member of the Saffa tribe….
28 Sep 2009, 20:05 pm
Gary Botha confirms he is on his way back to bulls….
Gio Aplon out for 2 weeks
28 Sep 2009, 20:08 pm
#147 grant10:
You gonna have to get circumcised first.
28 Sep 2009, 20:09 pm
#146 David:
The beauty of a blog is that one joins voluntarily.
The moment we try to exercise too much control, then it loses its appeal.
(Dave and mates, have to dash, wife needs her laptop now)
28 Sep 2009, 20:11 pm
#149 David: Done and dusted!!LOL
Seriously though….thats the problem….too divided…..screw this Afrikaaner, Zulu, Soutie, XHOSA, ….Thats the bloody problem.
As the great Justrugby once said……the line that was my Damascus Road…..
‘WHEN IS JUST BEING A SAFFA GOING TO BE ENOUGH?’
Damn…..a lifetime in politics and Justrugby nails it in a one liner!!!
28 Sep 2009, 20:12 pm
#150 Sheriff: cheers
28 Sep 2009, 20:15 pm
#152 grant10:
Cheers Grant; catch up with you guys later this week hopefully; a bit concerned about my pc right now
28 Sep 2009, 20:20 pm
#153 Sheriff: look forward to that….hope PC okay!
28 Sep 2009, 20:25 pm
wezwp….please dont put in breaking news as a joke unless it is true boet….
I saw the 2 posts and thought wp had signed Lote Tuquiri and CJ…called a mate all excited and now see its nonsense….
You owe me a beer boet!
28 Sep 2009, 20:41 pm
Grant_ didn’t mean making you look like a fool buddy. What You should get excited about is the local talent at our disposal.
28 Sep 2009, 20:43 pm
Like Conrad Hoffman and F. Louw.
28 Sep 2009, 20:43 pm
Grant, you also posted something earlier but no details? WP comings and goings- come on mate give names!
28 Sep 2009, 20:44 pm
Whatever happened to nic koster??
28 Sep 2009, 20:45 pm
yeah spill the beans buddy.
28 Sep 2009, 20:46 pm
Wewp – Koster is going to the Force.
28 Sep 2009, 20:48 pm
#126 Wezwp: Now I’m Lost…
28 Sep 2009, 20:49 pm
#156 Wezwp: Ja….agreed…phoned mate to complain about Lote….and rejoice about CJ….!
I drink Windhoek Lager by the way!
28 Sep 2009, 20:49 pm
This blog was quite volatile and serene this past wknd. Skop and Crouchy had an Orah moment I see.
28 Sep 2009, 20:49 pm
#158 Slappes: Sworn to secrecy mate….seriously….hand on the heart stuff…
28 Sep 2009, 20:50 pm
#150 Sheriff: disclosure means responsibility. We’ve seen how anoniminity has been abused by some on this very blog.
28 Sep 2009, 20:50 pm
#164 Slappes: who is Orah?
28 Sep 2009, 20:51 pm
#161 Slappes: Not you 2 slappes!!
28 Sep 2009, 20:53 pm
#159 Wezwp: He wants to specialise at wing ….with Habana coming across as well one of the reasons Chavangha leaving.
28 Sep 2009, 20:54 pm
164 meant Oprah. Grant – k@k man! hand on heart my ***, you owe it to us or i will mail you?
28 Sep 2009, 20:54 pm
Not to many people interested in the icc trophy i see. Victor Matfield even expressed his disappointment on twitter.
28 Sep 2009, 20:55 pm
#170 Slappes: Cant boet…..
28 Sep 2009, 20:56 pm
#171 Wezwp: We can slice and dice it all we like …our cricketers choke….
28 Sep 2009, 20:56 pm
#164 Slappes: don’t even mention that spat, crouchy was uber tender this weekend.
28 Sep 2009, 20:56 pm
Pearl Rose, do you like wearing knee-length boots?
28 Sep 2009, 20:57 pm
#170 Slappes: How come you never join WPTID and Dawn and i for that beer a few weeks ago?
28 Sep 2009, 20:58 pm
it was a soap opera of note!
28 Sep 2009, 21:03 pm
Grant, i did let you know i couldnt make it, wife, in-laws and my wknd was ruined
. Dont worry I will make your next meeting – when? semi?
28 Sep 2009, 21:03 pm
With all these rumours of wp signings, lets rather just wait till the super squads are announced, as far as im concerned only habana is a certain.
28 Sep 2009, 21:03 pm
#177 grant10: hello grant, i’m back from the choekie? Paid the cost to be tha boss!
28 Sep 2009, 21:05 pm
Pearl , not to worry its just i think we have spoken here before. Was just wondering.
28 Sep 2009, 21:07 pm
Transief, howd you get out?- paid the warden with a happy meal?
28 Sep 2009, 21:12 pm
#178 Slappes: I am sure we will put something together for semi….will let you know…cool…i remember now…#180 Transformation: Bloody hell its great you back !! Hi boet….you have been missed!
28 Sep 2009, 21:13 pm
Transie…now you back…have to mention it….i see my boys back where they belong….top the Premier League!!
28 Sep 2009, 21:14 pm
Funny this whole proteas thing. What does the term ‘chockers’ refer to. To me its dominating cricket and being ranked no.1 only to crash out of big events….repeatedly. This is what happend and yet in the media they saying they didnt choke but rather was beaten by a better side on the day. Strange that. One word springs to mind…Denial. I think they should just embrace the term like the All backs have and move on. Go back to the drawing board, if theres still space left on that damn thing, and work harder.
28 Sep 2009, 21:17 pm
#185 Mustard: Agree….okes have a bloody mental block or something….
I watched till the end last nite….they were never really in it …bowled poorly and too much pressure….
But every time they do this….and in SA they seem to choke even more violently….as will the All Blacks in 2011….
28 Sep 2009, 21:21 pm
Grant -Cool. Biff and the boys have become expert chokers. I will now start supporting the Pakis!
28 Sep 2009, 21:23 pm
#184 grant10:that’s what you get when the ref add an extra minute & a half to the game to the FOUR signalled by the fourth official.
#183 grant10:thanks man, the choekie wasn’t nice…but what doesn’t kill you can only make you stronger.
#182 Slappes: i served my time and paid my debt to society slaptjips…
28 Sep 2009, 21:24 pm
#187 Slappes: Ja….me as well boet….anyone except the Aussies,Kiwis and the Poms….Pakis,Indians and Sri Lankans…dont seem the windies have a prayer!
28 Sep 2009, 21:28 pm
#188 Transformation: Was shocked at the Chelsea result…pleasantly shocked that is….
Dont get to see much of the games so cant comment …but agree Man U tend to get the refs favor at Old Trafford….much like Bulls at Loftus….
Now avoid the chookie in future Transie my man…bite the tongue and count to 100 before pushing the send button!!
28 Sep 2009, 21:31 pm
Just read that Gary Botha may even play in the CC still with Chilliboy out!!
28 Sep 2009, 21:35 pm
#186 grant10:
Watched a Shane Warne feature on cricket legends over the weekend. That fellow was out of this world.
Matter of fact, the current talent cannot be compared to Viv Richards, Ian Botham, in terms of real super star and match winning abilities. The closest is probably Sachin Tendulkar.
Why does sport in general no longer have real super stars that really make you sit up like Ali, Michael Jordan , Magic Johnson, Zinzan Brooke to mention a few. Are players over coached into walking robots where talent is stiffled? No instinct at all!! Very sad.
28 Sep 2009, 21:37 pm
Grant, Gary the chipmunk will always start ahead of Chilli. Thats how the bools roll. Chilli shouldve gone to the lions. Andre bekker just facebooked he will be playing sat.
28 Sep 2009, 21:38 pm
#188 Transformation:
Choekie??
28 Sep 2009, 21:39 pm
@ 191 grant, may i ask where you read that, sum of these rumours u just cant believe
28 Sep 2009, 21:39 pm
#192 Peter Mkata: Ja….the Bjrn Borgs, Maradonas, Bob Skinstads…..
I reckon the more professional the more the individual flair gets drilled out of players ….regretfully!
Well…we still have Giteau……Aplon, Joe Pietersen…..
Warne was simply THE MAN….along with Muri the greatest of all time.
28 Sep 2009, 21:40 pm
#188 Transformation:
if city hadn’t wasted so much time celebrating their 3rd goal, they might have got away with a draw.
but as one english paper put it, the extra time also gave city the chance to win – and they never took it.
sorry-oh…….as my lagos friends like to say.
#189 grant10:
not those arrogant pakis….please god. better india or, my favourites, sri lanka
28 Sep 2009, 21:40 pm
#193 Slappes: A Bekker the next door neighbour of the chap i got some info from today…
28 Sep 2009, 21:41 pm
Peter , very true. No superstars left, everyones equally good. I think its a generation thing also.
28 Sep 2009, 21:41 pm
I’m keen for a drink sometime, Grant and Slappes. I’m under new management, though, so might have to clear it with the missus first
28 Sep 2009, 21:42 pm
#195 Mustard: news 24 boet
28 Sep 2009, 21:44 pm
#200 WP Till I Die:
is dawn pissed off?
28 Sep 2009, 21:44 pm
#197 charo: okay….Indians or Sri Lankans….poms or aussies i cut my wrists!#200 WP Till I Die: Please tell me its not the lady judo expert??
Anytime….just let me know….although WED i got a gig…
28 Sep 2009, 21:45 pm
WPtid- New management??? Hope its not a new pimp…,
28 Sep 2009, 21:45 pm
#202 charo: It was nt me!!
Would never upset the raven haired Goddess!
28 Sep 2009, 21:47 pm
#199 Slappes:
Naas Botha against all Currie cup provinces in 80′s. Hated him, but a real match winner and a NASTY BOTHA.
28 Sep 2009, 21:47 pm
@ 192 peter, agree. The best batting iv ever seen live was watchin sachin and azharudien bat for a day at newlands, smashing our bowlers all over the ground, was really good. I think batters back then where more techinically correct, today cross the line shots have become the norm and hand grips have become awkward. Is more exciting now with high scores though the purist must feel as though the norms been thrown out the window.
28 Sep 2009, 21:48 pm
where is gunther when you need him?
old gunther would make a meal of the development on this thread.
28 Sep 2009, 21:48 pm
Charo with the Prado, and can speak Ibu, no?
28 Sep 2009, 21:49 pm
#207 Mustard: i was there that day….unreal …and proteas won the test still….Sachin went out to a catch off Adam Bacher ….what a knock by him and Azharuddin!!
28 Sep 2009, 21:50 pm
WPTID….send regards to your mate….good dude that..
28 Sep 2009, 21:51 pm
@grant10: Nah, boet, but she is luckily a massage specialist…
28 Sep 2009, 21:51 pm
#205 grant10:
naah, i think dawn is a bit protective of wptid.
she like to mother him.
28 Sep 2009, 21:51 pm
@ 206, lol i wonder how nasty botha wouldov done in todays game, with guys like spies dysel etc running at the flyhalf chanel, im sure his pants wudov atleast been dirty
28 Sep 2009, 21:52 pm
WPtid, yeah would be nice but the last time we were in firemans – eina! Stodders never was the same again.
28 Sep 2009, 21:52 pm
gents…been cool chatting….things to do….
Have a cool evening….WP to close the CC deal….
Outta here!
28 Sep 2009, 21:53 pm
#212 WP Till I Die: good one….enjoy my man….nothing beats the heat of the first 3 months!!
28 Sep 2009, 21:54 pm
Firemans….i am there!!
28 Sep 2009, 21:55 pm
#207 Mustard:
Have you ever seen Viv Richards’ swagger whenever he got in to bat?
Was it arrogance or extreme self confidence?? And no helmet to boot. Believe he never batted with a helmet on. Never in his career. Insane if you ask me. And Ian Botham, what a talent.
28 Sep 2009, 21:55 pm
#209 Slappes:
aha … you have a knowledge of lagos?
ibu very difficult,,but am trying to pick up twi and ga since i am now resident in ghana again
#213 charo:
dawn has a strong maternal instinct – very protective to those young men she feels needs it!!!
28 Sep 2009, 21:56 pm
PeterM , I still hate Naas.
28 Sep 2009, 21:59 pm
#214 Mustard:
Rob Louw was there and was GOOD AND FAST. Tried to put pressure but mostly failed. Only Morne dup resorted to late tackles and Doc mauled him.
28 Sep 2009, 22:01 pm
#221 Slappes:
I hated N Tvl and anyone associated with them. LOL
28 Sep 2009, 22:02 pm
@ 219, peter, only seen highlights packages of viv on espn, yep what a legend. Think bowlers back in the day mustov had sum sortov agreement with regards to bowling short, yes insane batting with no helmet. Or they were just scared the windies bowlers would return the favour
funny that the pull shot swivel was made famous by the windies batters…makes u think ne
28 Sep 2009, 22:02 pm
#197 charo
h charley why you dey say sorry-oh it only dey football…
#194 Peter Mkata:i was banned for a week for insulting ryan vrede last week saturday. Now i’ve got a criminal record. I see the Peter Mkata Rugby Tournament was back in the Nelson Mandela Bay & i think the Cacadu team won the whole thing. Beast was @ the boardwalk for a function & it was reported that pdv was going to address the youngsters & zola yeye to make a speech about the man that is peter mkata! “the best flyhalf the world has never known”
#192 Peter Mkata:tiger woods is a star, le bron james is a star, floyd mayweather jr is a star, usain bolt is getting there, michael schumacher, lionel messi another reason for me that has taken the gloss of the stars is their over exposure, while i used to wait a month or two for SLAM magazine so that i can read about the latest goings on in the NBA, now the blogs have it instantly and some more! Just my 2c worth anyway…
#190 grant10: i’ve learnt my lesson boet, even if ryan vrede is spewing the most preposterous drivel i will just ignore it…
28 Sep 2009, 22:07 pm
@Mustard: Reminds me of a joke my grandfather’s brother (who was a navigator in a Lancaster) used to tell. As Uncle Reg told it: Hans is helping Hitler dress, and hands him a red tunic. Hitler: Vot iss zees? Hans: Mein Fuehrer, Napoleon used zees trick, he vore red so zat if he vaz wounded ze troops vould not notice! Hitler: In zat case, bring me mein brown trousers!
28 Sep 2009, 22:08 pm
@ 223 why lol they even got steve hofmeyer
28 Sep 2009, 22:09 pm
#219 Peter Mkata:
Yes, there are not many top sportsmen with personalities these days – all so serious, focussed and non smiling, for example Woods, Armstrong, Schumaker and Federer.
Imo, the most charismatic sportsman in the world today is the Moto GP champion Valentino Rossi. I am not a big motorsport fan but this guy is something else – a crowd pleaser, clown, genius, daredevil, show off, fierce competitor, entertainer – OK, it probably helps that he is an Italian.
Bolt is also getting there.
28 Sep 2009, 22:10 pm
@ 226 wp til u dead, lol hilarious
28 Sep 2009, 22:12 pm
cheers guys enjoy your evenings.
28 Sep 2009, 22:12 pm
#226 WP Till I Die:
com’n, spill the beans. does dawn know about your latest romance?
you going to have to spill the beans to her some time or other.
28 Sep 2009, 22:13 pm
WPtid,
and some ystergarde horsemen still wear brown.
28 Sep 2009, 22:15 pm
#231 charo:
jeez, talk about repetition!
anyway, about to go to the airport to check in for my flight back to sa.
later guys
28 Sep 2009, 22:17 pm
#225 Transformation:
Yeah Transie
-I read about that tournament – great when such great legends are recognised. Many don’t even know bhut Peter. Was lucky to see him play with Cheeky in early 80′s at Dan Qeqe stadium.
Saw Saru president (Hoskins) on SABC news publicly apologizing to PdV for having demeaned him when appointed as a bok coach infront of the pre-unity SARU banquet in PE OR Cape Town – not sure.
-Missed the Ryan Vrede debacle. Was away for 2 weeks. He surely deserved whatever you threw at him.
28 Sep 2009, 22:22 pm
#228 Robzim:
Agree 100%. Is it professionalism? Sport at the end of the day is entertainment. You never forget Ali’s showmanship or Shane Warne for that matter!
28 Sep 2009, 22:22 pm
The Ryan Vrede debacle?
28 Sep 2009, 22:27 pm
WPTID, transief said Ryan was a *** cullert.
28 Sep 2009, 22:28 pm
#233 Peter Mkata: oh well hoskins didn’t have to do it in my book. Because every institution is this country whether corporate or academic has or needs to have (AA; BEE, EE etc) policies to redress the imbalances of the past. So why would SARU be exempt? Anyway that’s my 2c worth again.
I would love to meet pdv! He seems like such cool ou toppie, i’m sure i’d laugh my @ss off in his company.
28 Sep 2009, 22:34 pm
#236 Slappes:lmao…oh hell no i didn’t say no such!
#235 WP Till I Die: i insulted him & he came on the blog to say that the language is getting out of hand & that children read keo too…then roy banned me.
28 Sep 2009, 22:41 pm
Transf, but yourre out on medical parole now? Youve got friends high up?
28 Sep 2009, 22:49 pm
How’s this for a potential black Bok backline?
9) Heinie Adams (yes I rate him highly)
10) Burton Francis
11) Bryan Habana
12) Juan de Jongh
13) Fabian Juries (I REAALLLY RATE HIM as a playmaker 13 with speed)
14) Lionel Mapoe/JP Pietersen
15) Zane Kirchner
That would be a most effective line, full of talent, skills speed and stepping.
Also black faces in the forwards include Beast,Chilliboy, and Mpho Mbiyozo (who I rate as a fetcher – also an awesome 7′s player with all the skills and power).
No black locks I am afraid…
28 Sep 2009, 22:51 pm
#240 SjamBok: Actually I would ove to see a game between the current Boks and an SA “Impi” black team.
The boks would win, but I dont think that it would be as much of a walkover as everyone thinks (assuming decent black locks and props can be found).
29 Sep 2009, 03:00 am
#223 Peter Mkata: reminds me of the days of Peter Whipp, Agie Koch, Bossie Clarke, Hempies, Shaun Povey, Div Visser, Hennie Bekker, Divan. Spent many days at Newlands, often witnessing WP ahead against NTVL with minutes to go, then that Naas bloke kicks some penalty to grab a win in the dying minutes.
29 Sep 2009, 05:45 am
#28 PissAnt: Keo has no influence or control over who PdV picks for his team. I believe we will be foolish to be too dogmatic on this point when RWC comes around. Then we will want to represented by the best of all eligible contenders. We will be defending champs playing in NZ against a nation whose desperation to win can be seen from the moon.
29 Sep 2009, 07:55 am
#137 David: Groepe sonder grense.
29 Sep 2009, 08:37 am
#244 stormer in a teacup:
Thanks, but that wasn’t the book I was thinking of.
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