Lions prepared for another fight
Manie Reyneke says the Lions will follow a similar path to the Jaque Fourie arbitration case if Louis Ludik and Willem Alberts want to leave to the Sharks.
Reports suggest that Alberts, Ludik and four other players have similar loopholes to the Springbok centre’s contract, which meant he won the arbitration that allows him to now sign for Western Province. Reyneke denied that there is anything wrong with the contracts, but said he is again prepared to fight for the promising fullback and eighthman.
The Fourie saga took nearly three months to reach a conclusion, and Lions CEO Reyneke said they would go a similar route with Ludik and Alberts.
‘The contract is not wrong, that’s the agent [Peet van Zyl] playing games again,’ Reyneke told keo.co.za. ‘If the players want to leave, we have individual contracts with them and we’ll go the same route we went with Jaque, and then see what happens.’
Reyneke looked a jaded man regarding the entire Fourie saga, and did concede there was nothing he could do if the players wish to leave to Durban.
‘Ive seen stuff in the press from them through their lawyers and agents – if it makes them happy to go, they must go. We’ve made them offers, we’ve looked after them, but there’s a lot of talent in this country.’
Reyneke was understandably disappointed with the outcome of the Fourie arbitration.
‘I am very sad with the manner it happened. If anyone is ever privy to the arbitration documents, you’ll see they admitted they signed a two-year contract, but got off on a technicality. You know what, it’s just sad, we fetched him out of school and gave him the opportunities and stuck with him through all the injuries he had. Unfortunately that’s the route they want to go – it’s a professional era and if he wants to move, he’ll move.’
The Lions have suffered a mass exodus of senior players throughout the year, but Reyneke was confident the future is bright, despite their best players being eyed by other provinces. Despite the senior side finishing a lowly sixth, the Lions U19s face the Cheetahs in the Currie Cup final at Loftus on Saturday.
‘If it wasn’t for the swine flu the U21s had [in August], we probably would’ve been in the final for that as well. We have good youngsters in the system, our recruiting is working, and look at our current senior squad – most of them are being hunted by other provinces – but 12 have come through our own schools system.’
Regarding the coaching structures, it is not yet clear whether Jake White will work with new director of rugby Dick Muir next year. Reyneke confirmed former Bok and Lions lock Johan Ackermann could be added as a forwards coach within the next week.
‘Jake and his company’s contract runs out at end of October, but there is a proposal on the table. But that now needs to change with the new coaching structures. Either way, we know where we’re going.’
By Grant Ball, in Johannesburg
October 29th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
151. sharks_lover : Your comment is awaiting moderation.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
#150 charo: bro go check on rugby talk you will see a article from this morning where is show that from the cheetahs and the bulls, only 3 players in each team are born and raised in those provinces
they all bought players
but typically thses fools that have no idea love to point fingers at the sharks
hey atleast we pay for the players
for 100 years they stole out players in the name of defence , policing , prison services , afrikaans universities etc
now they come cry like babies
bopoohoooohoooooooooooooooooooo , hand them a free tissue
October 29th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
LOL charo yup us old farts hehee
October 29th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
#151 sharks_lover:
looks like jockbok and his bulls mate will be pulling into accra next week.
hope so, will be fun to have a beer or dozen with a weepee and bulls supporter.
will show them some local sights
October 29th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
#154 charo: sounds fun , hope you guys have a great time
good evening soda boet ^5
hiyas poppa ltnc mate ?? w/back ^5
October 29th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
Oh boo hoo – you Lion admin morons were too incompetemnt to pull your fingers out for 15 years, and now we must feel sorry for you because your players are abandoning you in droves (and they can because of yet more sheer incompetence)?
All together now: AAAAAAAAG SHAAAAAMEE
As far as I am concerned the administrators are the ones that should be on performance related contracts. Your salaries should be halved for each year that your team does not win silverware. Then we will see how quickly the rats abandon the sinking ship ne?
and when you find that no-one else will take you because you are USELESSS, then maybe we will start seeing that sense of professionalism and support that professional rugby players need. I am still raging at the idea of them not even having a full time bloody physio for the Lions. Yet the administrators were probably all driving around in luxury cars… am I right?
October 29th, 2009 at 11:22 pm
#154 SjamBok: Couldn’t agree more.
they’ve run the union right in to the ground. And reaping what they sowed a long time ago.
October 30th, 2009 at 8:55 am
Don’t know if you guys know the full story, doesn’t seem that way so let me try and enlighten you.
The contract being declared “non-binding” has not got nothing to do with the fact that is was not a standard players contract issued by SARPA.
The reason it was declared as “non-binding” is because in the remuneration for 2010 it was said as “to be negotiated”. The Arbitrator declared on this basis that the contract was not binding due to Fourie’s remuneration for 2010 not specified, thus there is no contractual basis that forces Fourie to play rugby for the Lions next season.
The interesting part, is that the Lions did not specify the remuneration on request of Fourie and his agent. Reason being that they said Fourie’s market value would increase and they didn’t want him to play for a salary less than what he was worth. The GLRU agreed to these terms in good faith.
So, you decide if the Lions were incompetent or if they took the word of Mossie and his agent.
Rumour is that Ludik and Alberts contracts have their remuneration specified for the next 2 years. That is the only reason Fourie got off, nothing else.
October 30th, 2009 at 9:30 am
#156 WilladieLeeu:
FYI
When they interiviewed Piet Haymans CEO of SARPA about the JF contract about a month ago now… He stated categorically that the Lions did NOT use standard SARPA contracts. He added that SARPA had tried for several years to get the Lions and other unions to use SARPA contracts… to no avail…
Not my opinon… not speculation…
From the horses mouth…
October 30th, 2009 at 9:51 am
#157 ufo:
Everybody knows that.
But what I meant in my previous post, the fact that the Lions did not use the standard players contract had no bearing on the outcome. That was irrelevant in the result of the arbitration.
October 30th, 2009 at 9:55 am
#158 WilladieLeeu:
oh! okay… cool.
October 30th, 2009 at 10:01 am
#158 WilladieLeeu:
I have two simple questions on this whole issue:
a) Why were the Lions happy to release Jaque to a French club (if that came up) but not another union, what is this principle they refer to?
b) Why does Jaque so desperately want to leave the Lions going as far as arbitration? What is so pressing that he, his agent and the Lions admin could not sort out as grown-up’s behind closed doors of the union?
October 30th, 2009 at 10:03 am
#147 pierre: Like Morne Steyn is not From Tshwane, born in CT studies in Bloem go worry about your own sorry lot!
October 30th, 2009 at 10:26 am
#160 PissAnt:
It was the principle that the contract stipulated that Fourie could leave the Lions for o/seas teams but not for a local Franchise until his contract ended with the GLRU.
He singned and agreed with it. That principle.
Money, Money and more money. And don’t understimate the influence his wife had. Ja, the Lions are not the most succesful union in the country at the moment, but so is Province. So don’t come with the **** about wanting to play in a winning culture. If that was the case he would have moved to the Bulls.
Money and lifestyle.
October 30th, 2009 at 10:42 am
#162 WilladieLeeu:
Was it an actual stipulation in his contract?
That’s news to me.
Did you see this contract?
October 30th, 2009 at 10:47 am
#162 WilladieLeeu:
Oh and wanted to add…
Sticking out for another 6 to 8 months while wifey sorts out the new house and decor in CPT would not have been that tough for Jaque.
Being out of pocket by a couple of thousand for a couple more months would also not be the end of the world for Jaque since I am sure he is not actually earning peanuts at the moment anycase.
What has transpired with the Lions, and the lengths it went to smacks of desperation here, not simply a case of money and lifestyle.
October 30th, 2009 at 10:54 am
Another thing.
I think it is easily forgotten that Jaque has been a fiercely loyal player to a union that has underperformed for many years now.
This whole thing was very sudden, very dramatic and very ugly.
So forgive me if I cannot help but think something happened here behind the scenes which we are not aware of.
As my dad said; “As iets lyk soos kak, en ruik soos kak, is die kanse goed dit is kak”
October 30th, 2009 at 11:16 am
#163 PissAnt:
Yes it was a stipulation.
I didn’t see it, but a source close to the team said it’s def, and it was widely reported when he first wanted to move o/seas.
What happened behind doors and if Jaque would have stayed a while longer, we will never know. The point that I’m making, is this issue has been put to the GLRU and they have been accused of being idiots etc etc.
When the fact merely is that they accepted a request by the player and agent, and that at the end of the day, that request was the get out of jail free card. So who should be accused of being unproffesional?
The GLRU accepted terms in good faith with Mossie and his agent. This was the thing that came to bite them in the ***.
What I also can’t understand, is he went through all this trouble to be able to go to Province, and almost three weeks after been released, he still hasn’t signed with Province.
What’s up with that?
October 30th, 2009 at 11:22 am
#166 WilladieLeeu:
I hope your sources is more reliable and honest than Keo’s sources!
I don’t know mate.
This whole thing is messy and a lot of things do not add up here.
October 30th, 2009 at 11:24 am
#167 PissAnt:
Let’s just say my sources has neve been wrong.
October 30th, 2009 at 11:50 am
ja look in fourie’s case, i cant see there is anyone to blame, the players obviously just wants to leave and they dont want him to.
its pretty sad from a lions viewpoint, but he’s been with them for about 6 or 7 seasons now, so its fair enough if he wants a change.
they probably should not have played hardball with him and instead asked him to reconsider for another year 2010, and paid him handsomely for it or come to some sort of arragment, but perhaps they tried all of those things and Fourie (or the missus) still wanted a change – so be it.
For 1 unclear year having been there for 6/7 years, he’s def given his pound of flesh imo.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
I saw on the ENEWS channel last night that the Sharks had signed Heinrich Brussow and will buy out his contract. Has anybody heard anything about this?
October 30th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
#170 Pepe: A guy with connections to someone close to the Sharks has said as much yesterday, can you give me the address to the site you read it on , I would be interested to read what it said as well.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
the sharks are splashing out – Brussow, Deysel and Alberts could form a potentially devastating loose trio – they are looking extremely well-placed for 2010.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
#172 cab:
And Kanko move to the Lions or Southern Kings?
October 30th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
#172 cab:
I also wonder where this leaves Botes and Daniels. So much for the Sharks Academy and statements that WP are forcing out youngsters by buying players.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
#174 David: Daniels and Botes have been passengers for most of this season, Daniel is a penalty a minute. A bit of stiff competition will do them the world of good. And if Rassie had got it right in getting Brussow would you be complaining? (Just a quetion not being facitious), and who is accusing WP of forcing out youngsters, the crits came mainly from WP supporters!
October 30th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
i can confidently say sharks are losing noone of the senior players
burden was sought by the lions but has turned down the offer
i cant confirm a rhodes or downey leaving or not
all senior players will be staying
October 30th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
#174 cab: hiyas cabby ^5 hows you/>??
even with that done i still feel we need a good center pairing at the sharks
hell we should never have let steyn go
adi and murray are ok but they need to find form
strauss tries hard but to slow
vulindlu cant catch the ball is probably the best suited for 13 with pace power and speed…………… sigh if only he can catch a ball , the kid has so much potential
October 30th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
#175 Sharksgirl:
It was the president of the Sharks Provincial Union who made that criticism of WP, a few days ago, when he was boasting about how the Sharks developed their players through the system.
Sure, I’d love to get Brussow for WP, especially now that Luke’s gone. But WP isn’t the one that’s pointing fingers.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
#177 sharks_lover: Like Morne Steyn who couldn’t kick a ball over posts if he was 2 meters away from the posts who single handedly handed the home Final to the Sharks in last year’s cc with hard work he is now the premier kicker for the Bok, so too can Vulindlu Learn to catch the frigging ball!
October 30th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
#177 sharks_lover:
Why not move Hernandez to 12 and play Dumond at 10?
October 30th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
#178 David: Oh okai, sorry I missed that one, I was going from Keo posts, where can I find that article? If there is one, and not on T.V. The president then should learn about what they say about people sitting in glass houses.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
#180 David: david i read the article and he isnt point fingers
just showing and explaining whats happening at the lower levels
everybody buys players wo sharks or whoever , and free state just as much
in the present bulls and cheetah’s squads there is only 3 players born and raised in thses 2 unions that play for them
its a professional era and i cant fathom why( and i dont mean you ) people still cry about a team buying a player
October 30th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
#174 David:
yip, Daniels and Botes, and especially should stay on as back-up, they are talented players in their own right, but not in the league of brussow imo, very few are, nothing to be ashamed of, just the way it is. the squad system is so important, bound to be at least one and prob more injuries to the loosetrio. the sharks paid for it with the loss of deysel last year, but they looking to shore that up with alberts. the two toughies from gauteng-by-the-sea.
#177 sharks_lover:
very much agree, the loss of steyn is huge, but hernanded will make an outstanding centre in the S14 against class opposition. hernandez and jacobs could be a very creative combo in opening up oppo defences on attack.
October 30th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
#182 sharks_lover:
What worries me is when provinces start hogging the bulk of the best players in certain positions. The whole point of the Super Series was to give playing time at just below test level to the countries top 150 players. That’s why we did away with Springbok trials. I still prefer the NZ system, where the franchise declares a squad of 25 players and the NZRU can then draft ones not named to a franchise that’s weak there or that they’d like to see get more game time. I remember a few seasons back when the Bulls had 4 class 9s on their books and other franchises were struggling.
October 31st, 2009 at 10:24 am
#156 WilladieLeeu:
Willa – the fact that 6 players at the GLRU had contracts completely different to the Standard Players Contract with incomplete information and even some of them unsigned, one contract even lost(!) by the GLRU, is statement enough that Mani Reyneke is out of his depth and has cost the Lions tens of millions of Rands.
Under him players are walking out the door because of administrative bungling and stuff ups, the stadium is empty, the management contract of the stadium is a mess – losing the Union Millions of Rands, racism always flares up, referees go on strike, sponsors are wanting to walk away because there is no value, the clubs are pissed off, the GLRU schools headmasters see or hear nothing of the man, there is no set of management accounts or business plan for the next 3 years and he sits behind a desk that has 6 1/2 meter high piles of files and papers.
Does this instil confidence in the Union?
The GLRU Union is in a meltdown and neither Kevin de Klerk nor **** Muir can stop this unless they cut the cancer.