Lions prepared for another fight
Manie Reyneke says the Lions will follow a similar path to the Jaque Fourie arbitration case if Louis Ludik and Willem Alberts want to leave to the Sharks.
Reports suggest that Alberts, Ludik and four other players have similar loopholes to the Springbok centre’s contract, which meant he won the arbitration that allows him to now sign for Western Province. Reyneke denied that there is anything wrong with the contracts, but said he is again prepared to fight for the promising fullback and eighthman.
The Fourie saga took nearly three months to reach a conclusion, and Lions CEO Reyneke said they would go a similar route with Ludik and Alberts.
‘The contract is not wrong, that’s the agent [Peet van Zyl] playing games again,’ Reyneke told keo.co.za. ‘If the players want to leave, we have individual contracts with them and we’ll go the same route we went with Jaque, and then see what happens.’
Reyneke looked a jaded man regarding the entire Fourie saga, and did concede there was nothing he could do if the players wish to leave to Durban.
‘Ive seen stuff in the press from them through their lawyers and agents – if it makes them happy to go, they must go. We’ve made them offers, we’ve looked after them, but there’s a lot of talent in this country.’
Reyneke was understandably disappointed with the outcome of the Fourie arbitration.
‘I am very sad with the manner it happened. If anyone is ever privy to the arbitration documents, you’ll see they admitted they signed a two-year contract, but got off on a technicality. You know what, it’s just sad, we fetched him out of school and gave him the opportunities and stuck with him through all the injuries he had. Unfortunately that’s the route they want to go – it’s a professional era and if he wants to move, he’ll move.’
The Lions have suffered a mass exodus of senior players throughout the year, but Reyneke was confident the future is bright, despite their best players being eyed by other provinces. Despite the senior side finishing a lowly sixth, the Lions U19s face the Cheetahs in the Currie Cup final at Loftus on Saturday.
‘If it wasn’t for the swine flu the U21s had [in August], we probably would’ve been in the final for that as well. We have good youngsters in the system, our recruiting is working, and look at our current senior squad – most of them are being hunted by other provinces – but 12 have come through our own schools system.’
Regarding the coaching structures, it is not yet clear whether Jake White will work with new director of rugby Dick Muir next year. Reyneke confirmed former Bok and Lions lock Johan Ackermann could be added as a forwards coach within the next week.
‘Jake and his company’s contract runs out at end of October, but there is a proposal on the table. But that now needs to change with the new coaching structures. Either way, we know where we’re going.’
By Grant Ball, in Johannesburg
October 29th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
#42 Paws: agree….i bet that ludick took the pay while he nursed his knee!!
October 29th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
#44 JockBok: Good to see you here.
Time has flown in fast. You seem to have been in Togo for awhile now.
How much longer you got there?
Do you get any of the CC and will you get the eoyt games to watch while there?
October 29th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
#46 sharks_lover: #46 sharks_lover: #46 sharks_lover: #46 sharks_lover:
answer me ffs
October 29th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
October 29th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
instead of paying jake….go get some recruits…and DM can do the training…..
Bloody hell….
Anyway…cheers all
Outta here
October 29th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
Why ain’t it Friday.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Gotta stock up on horror movies for the weekend.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
#25 PissAnt: mate i got to go , check out iol.co.za and click on daily news reports on sport
October 29th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
#42 Paws: loyalty don’t put food in your stomach…..and pay the bond etc etc…..but don’t worry…here at wp we will look after him hehe
October 29th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
#46 grant10:
I read what GB had to say, the lure of the Euro is attractive, but not everyone can adapt to different lifestyles and cultures.
While no doubt some of the boys want to come home, the reality is depending how far they are into their contracts it remains expensive to bring them back.
If the player is not extra special i cannot see Unions being in a position to spend that type of money!!
October 29th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
what happened to that uber successful sharks development program, if they’re buying up all the free state & lions developed players?
October 29th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
#42 Paws:
I have mentioned this before.
It is all good and well expecting honour and respect from players, but what about the admin okes in the union? Surely respect is earned, not bought?
While these guys played for the union, you have seen the Golden Lions Trust being raped to the extent that the Lions were/are in such deep financial kak as an independent audit in 2006 confirmed.
You have CEO’s and Presidents being accused of all kinds of things.
You have coaches fired in the most dubious of circumstances.
You have guys being paid who has not played or pitched for work in over a year.
You have half your stadium sold off to a soccer club.
This respect and honour goes both ways.
If your employer is bordering on bankruptcy and constantly under achieving as a business, how do you think it will affect your personal career and future prospects with this employer?
The days where you played for a pack of smokes and a 6 pack of beer is long gone.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
#53 sharks_lover:
Having a laugh here. I think you meant post 45 there?..haha
October 29th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
#57 Dawn:
Hi Dawn
Watching the Bulls slaughter the Cheetach’s could be considered a horror !!:)
October 29th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Arghhh, moderated. Must be the addy. Charo, you can reach me on jockbok2009 at yahoo. co.uk
#36 charo: Thanks mate, appreciate it. Details are, pick up 160 bags x 25kg grout from South Industrial Area, Accra next thursday or friday. Deliver Lome, Togo at your earliest convenience
I’ll be in Accra for a few days next week too, so maybe catch a beer. Just set up an email addy, jockbok2009 at yahoo.co.uk so drop me a line if it’s possible.
————-
Arghhh, moderated. Must be the addy. Trying again.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
#45 sharks_lover:
What you mean you have not got it???
Rob has it, do not want to open myself up to Keo spammers!!!
October 29th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
#59 Martin:
No, loyalty does not do that, the pay cheque that they gratefully banked each month from the union they’re now trying to stab in the back did that for them while they were out injured.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
#67 PissAnt: nope i dont have ur email addie lol and keo puts the link under moderation for the article,
also i iunderstand not wanting to put ur email addie on here no problem
the article however is in the daily news of the 28th, so go to iol.co.za and click on daily news on left hand side of page
go to sport , there you will see the article
October 29th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
#62 PissAnt:
Did there pay cheques ever bounch?
Did they recieve 2nd rate medical attention and rehad?
Did they not get noticed to get call ups for highter honours?
Just saying, that no matter how sub standard the contract may be, they did sign at the time till 2010, and have been more than happy to accept the benifts.
It is not as though the union has now suddenly gone down hill, it was in this position when they re-signed till 2010 .. and now suddenly they are unhappy.
Utter ****.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
#52 Puma: Got DStv installed just in time for the semis last week, unfortunately for both of us as it turned out. But looking forward to the final and the EOYT. Still got another 6 months or so here so roll on the S14 too
October 29th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
#51 grant10: Grant The Dup Brothers have signed with the Sharks, its not longer verbal agreement anymore. I am a very happy lady today
October 29th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
#48 Dawn: Interesting. Do you also supply crumpet with the tea????
October 29th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
#71 Sharksgirl: and they signed for 2 years
October 29th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
#70 JockBok: Well at least you have DSTV to keep you going. You will see the CC final and eoyt, S14 too.
Ja, pity about our teams but that is how it goes. Now cant wait to see the Boks playing against France and Ireland. Players going to be tired. Lots of Boks in the Bulls team. At least the Boks in the Sharks are having a rest.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
#71 Sharksgirl:
Don’t be to happy .. contracts mean jack in SA if your lawyer is smarter than theirs.
Always a loop hole to try and exploit.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
#73 Sharksgirl: Read that last week. So very pleased about it.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
#75 Paws: Yip, you are right there.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
#10 Tacitus: But their contract were valid these aparently are not!
October 29th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Is Reyneke on drugs? If all the mentioned players’ contracts have the same loophole, then surely JF’s arbitration victory has set the precedent and a fight is pointless.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
#67 Paws: when the ship starts sinking all the rats start making a move overboard. anyway i see your point but at the end of the day its the lions own fault for not securing proper contract…why is this type of thing not happening at other unions? it takes two to tango.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
#69 Paws:
But that is the point isn’t it.
They signed a contract at point X. Since then, a lot changed over which they have no control, but (it) controls their careers directly and indirectly either positively, or negatively (which seems to be the case with the Lions).
Contracts is not only about money, and getting a paycheque, contracts is a mutual undertaking by both parties to commit to one another offering each other the best working environment, and results they possible can.
If the one defaults on this which is clearly the case for me from the Lions union, you cannot expect the other party to simply remain happy.
It is time unions take some responsibility for their actions too.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
#45 sharks_lover: Hi ther Shark_L please send me that link too!
October 29th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
#82 Sharksgirl:
The link doesn’t work, unless you’re a Daily News subscriber. Just tried it.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
#75 Paws: Lots can be said against Streuli, however not having water tight contracts for his players is not one of those! But I hear where you are coming from.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
#83 David: oh damn
Thank you David, spared me the trouble!
October 29th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
#81 PissAnt:
Is it not strange how the union always seems to be on the loosing end?
When did there two player resign there contracts .. can you really say things are worse off now than then .. now atleast plans are been made to improve things at the union, so that argument does not fly.
The Lions union has been in the dumps for the last 6/8 years.
Can these poor poor players (my heart bleeds for the terrible conditions they must suffer in) not survive just one more s14 and cc for the union that carried them, and then negotiate in good faith with other unions for 2011, and they can leave with a pat on the back and a handshake for good service.
It does take two to tango .. but everyone seems to forget the players part in partaking in the dance.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Look at how Wikus van Heerden did things, how difficult can it be for the others.
We should also not forget the big role the players managers play in this, too many are out to make extra bucks for themselves.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
#72 JockBok:
How about some cake?
October 29th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Great news – Sharks blow your budget on the Lions and leave the cheetahs alone.
I guess this then free’s up the Lions budget – wonder from who they will start buying….. O f**k! We cannot win!
October 29th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Hierdie KEO raak nou uit hand uit …
“Win a copy of TALKING BALLS”
“Win your BIG BALL TRADING CARDS collectors folder”
Sies.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
#89 adj nm:
October 29th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
#65 JockBok:
have sent you an email. my ops mgr will try to get someone.
give me a shout when you in accra next week.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
#86 Paws:
Well if their administration starts sorting themselves out then maybe they will not end up in the losing end?
And of course it flies, because you can go back every single year, for the last 6 years and every end of the season how it was promised that this time, this year (or next) will be different and how they turned a corner.
Just for the same kak.
At no time did the Lions agree that they be bought out of their contracts (i.e. be financially reimbursed) which is a pretty standard thing if you want to move jobs, but rather, the only reason they gave for not wanting to release a player that obviously wants to move was that ‘it is against our principles because then he would be playing against us’.
Now you tell me who is the party here that is not coming to the party?
October 29th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
#43 charo: you must be living under a rock if’you’re thinking we have a “monopoly” on failing infrastructure! Wake up or come back from Kumasi, have you seen or heard about service delivery protests in the EC? Gauteng, Mpumalanga & Limpopo are burning as we speak!
In any case my initial statement was about bungling RUGBY administrators…
October 29th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
#93 PissAnt:
Why do you think the Bulls are not on the losing end where players like Wynand Olivier said no to a hell of a lot more money, a seemingly better lifestyle (in CPT) and opted to stay with a union where he is happy?
Then compare that to a guy like Jaque, who would risk reputation and possible huge financial losses and go to the lengths of legal artbitration to get out of a union.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
#95 PissAnt: anyone suggesting that the players are not being loyal is being trivial, when players are told by jake that they’re fat & not properly conditioned! Any self-respecting player who has Springbok aspirations is entitled to seek greener pastures!
Look @ chavanga, he’s been loyal to the stormers for years, his agent asks rassie about contract extensions, they dilly dallie and no answer is forthcoming, how professional is that? If the unions are run like spaza shops, the players must bounce i say.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
#95 PissAnt:
Jaques new wife was probably a WP supporter and told him she wanted to live in Cape Town if she married him. A choice between her or the Coke Tin. What would you have done?
October 29th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
#97 David: all these bokke are getting married i just saw a mag cover with morne steyn & his bride @ the shop…she’s a pretty blonde, great taste morne…
October 29th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
#98 Transformation: The time comes for every man (and every poor woman
) to take a spouse, even for the Boks! 
October 29th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
#96 Transformation:
Its has got nothing to do with loyalty .. it’s got all to do with honoring your contract which you signed.
So .. if no other offers come along, the contract is fine and you expect your monthly pay cheque and what ever else goes along especially when injured, but when there is something else on offer, mind you, not form a small crappy union, a loop hole needs to be found and they want out.
Not taking any blame away from the Lions union, they have done a **** job now for a long time, especially when it comes to these contracts .. but what, the players smell of roses?
I say once again, when there was no prospects or better offers, they were more than willing to sign, even when the union in question was as **** is it still is .. and now suddenly they can’t bear to be there and want to move on.
Do you time, which you promised and signed and have been paid for, and then do business in good faith from there.
What has so dramatically changed at the union that they want to leave .. nothing .. just a good offer is suddenly on the table.
W Olivier is a good example, and Habana .. the one has stayed, and the other has left. The difference it that both there contracts were over and they negotiated with all parties in good faith.
It really is not that difficult.