Lions prepared for another fight
Manie Reyneke says the Lions will follow a similar path to the Jaque Fourie arbitration case if Louis Ludik and Willem Alberts want to leave to the Sharks.
Reports suggest that Alberts, Ludik and four other players have similar loopholes to the Springbok centre’s contract, which meant he won the arbitration that allows him to now sign for Western Province. Reyneke denied that there is anything wrong with the contracts, but said he is again prepared to fight for the promising fullback and eighthman.
The Fourie saga took nearly three months to reach a conclusion, and Lions CEO Reyneke said they would go a similar route with Ludik and Alberts.
‘The contract is not wrong, that’s the agent [Peet van Zyl] playing games again,’ Reyneke told keo.co.za. ‘If the players want to leave, we have individual contracts with them and we’ll go the same route we went with Jaque, and then see what happens.’
Reyneke looked a jaded man regarding the entire Fourie saga, and did concede there was nothing he could do if the players wish to leave to Durban.
‘Ive seen stuff in the press from them through their lawyers and agents – if it makes them happy to go, they must go. We’ve made them offers, we’ve looked after them, but there’s a lot of talent in this country.’
Reyneke was understandably disappointed with the outcome of the Fourie arbitration.
‘I am very sad with the manner it happened. If anyone is ever privy to the arbitration documents, you’ll see they admitted they signed a two-year contract, but got off on a technicality. You know what, it’s just sad, we fetched him out of school and gave him the opportunities and stuck with him through all the injuries he had. Unfortunately that’s the route they want to go – it’s a professional era and if he wants to move, he’ll move.’
The Lions have suffered a mass exodus of senior players throughout the year, but Reyneke was confident the future is bright, despite their best players being eyed by other provinces. Despite the senior side finishing a lowly sixth, the Lions U19s face the Cheetahs in the Currie Cup final at Loftus on Saturday.
‘If it wasn’t for the swine flu the U21s had [in August], we probably would’ve been in the final for that as well. We have good youngsters in the system, our recruiting is working, and look at our current senior squad – most of them are being hunted by other provinces – but 12 have come through our own schools system.’
Regarding the coaching structures, it is not yet clear whether Jake White will work with new director of rugby Dick Muir next year. Reyneke confirmed former Bok and Lions lock Johan Ackermann could be added as a forwards coach within the next week.
‘Jake and his company’s contract runs out at end of October, but there is a proposal on the table. But that now needs to change with the new coaching structures. Either way, we know where we’re going.’
By Grant Ball, in Johannesburg
October 29th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Why the Lions didn’t just use the standard SA rugby contract only they can know. Basically an unprofessional outfit in a very professional era.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
now if i am travelling down a road and i see a fork ahead, two paths, and i have to choose one, i will do so knowing that i have forsaken the other path and, in most cases, a different destination.
now we have oom manie’s words to reflect on:
“Either way, we know where we’re going.’”
has the chicken lost its head?
October 29th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
#100 Paws: i admire your integrity man.
you know what though? many times i have cursed vodacom and mtn for their prctice of tying us into 24 month contracts.
i wish i could find a loophole.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
#100 Paws:honouring a contract in a union that is going nowhere? People join companies & leave them for various reasons, career advancement opportunities of the lack thereof is one of them! If louis ludik was playing in a not-so-winning-sharks team, i guarantee you he’d be a springbok fullback. Why would you stay at a stagnating company when you know the market leader is gagging for your services? That would be stupid, rugby is a PROFESSIONAL with a short life span…
#99 Sharksgirl: i guess so…
October 29th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
professional career!
October 29th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
#93 charo: Thanks mate. Still waiting on email but no doubt i’ll get it soon enough. I’ll be in touch.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
No use arguing these matters. Those who benefit from these actions will defend the players’ actions (no matter what), and those who stand to lose will opose the players’ actions. When WP and the Sharks stand to lose players in this way we’ll see how they’ll come crying, and if the Lions stand to gain from it the Lions fans will argue that it’s a professional era and it’s been done to them.
Fact is that the Fourie case opened the door for many to exit from existing contracts (if they wish to do so) and those supporters now enjoying this will also cry foul …
and please don’t come with the story that it’s only the Lions contracts that are **** and not those at other unions. When the Lions go into a more aggressive buy mode (once Muir is properly settled in 2010) we’ll see how solid the other contracts are …
October 29th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
I am so damned sick of the Sharks and their opportunism.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
#108 pierre: what are you on about? The sharks have a world class rugby development academy!
October 29th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
#109 pierre: pierre booohoooohoooo cry me a river
all teams buy , a good example was done between the cheetahs and the bulls, only 3 players from each team are born and raised in the province they play for
go ro talk rugby and read the lastest article , might teach you something
October 29th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
amazing how people only see what they want to see
or is it???
October 29th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
#106 JockBok:
checked my outlook – damn email not in sent box or drafts.
will send again.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
hi sharksgirl dawling , how ru doing??? hows the famiglia??
hope you guys are well down south
the daily news you can subscribe free for one week
so go to iol.co.za and subscibe and you will see the article i talk of
i cant give the link on here because it gets moderated
October 29th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
#113 charo: hiyas charoping boet ^5
October 29th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
#113 sharks_lover:
friggen busy – thats why i am a bit scarce today
October 29th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
#113 sharks_lover: Hi there Sharks_Lover, We are all well, just very boring weekends now that the Sharks are out. But I have my white and Orange shirt all ready for Saturday
Its great to blame the Sharks for “stealing” players. The Sharks made an offer which the players could very well have refused had they wanted to. The same way the Bulls made an offer to the Dups. Which (oh thank goodness for the good admin at the Sharks) they turned down. Besides wasn’t it the player’s agent that approached the Sharks? Correct me if I am wrong.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
#117 Sharksgirl: you are right hun
like i said hun go to rugby talk just for a visit dont even sign up
then read the latest article about the bulls and cheetahs teams of present
only 3 in each team are born and raised in the union they play for
October 29th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
amazing how they always just point finger at the sharks
another thing is i am not sure if you are aware of it , but in the history of the sharks via the police defence force and other enterties the natal players were stolen and ened up playing elsewhere
they for example forced into the military in bloem or cape area , and of course pretoria
stransky is a good example of a natal player , played for the bulls while forced into military in pretoria cliffie brown
**** i can name so many
now we actually pay for those we take
October 29th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
I thought it is professional honoring the contract you sign, knowing full well what you’re signing on to do when you sign it.
It is distinctly unprofessional to leave before the contract is expired and the job is half done.
Apparently it’s just me that thinks that way.
As far as I’m concerned, it is the same as hiring a tiler to tile your kitchen, and he leaves the job halfway because a bigger job has come along.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
#120 Paws: paws there is arguments for it both ways boet , i do feel sorry for the lions though , and i mean it
i for one would like to see lions rugby back where it belongs ,
October 29th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
#117 sharks_lover: Tacitus will tell you that Bakkies was not a household name when they bought him…they achieved greatness in Pretoria.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
#119 Paws:
Again it comes down to how the contract ends. Whether at the agreed expiry period or before.
When you end it before, penalties are incurred, like financial penalties to end a contract early. or in other words, buying yourself out of a contract.
Someone mentioned the MTN scenario earlier.
If I have a cell contract for 2 years, and I want to leave after 1 year, I have to buy myself out of that remaining year by paying the subscription I agreed to pay initially.
BUT the difference is, MTN gives me the option to buy myself out effectively honouring my contract. No one loses.
No-where have I seen the Lions offering this option to Jaque.
WP was not the first union he wanted to move to, or where rumours surfaced.
Before that he was linked to a French club – the union seemingly had no problem with this – only when he wanted to move to WP did they kick up a stink.
Something don’t add up there mate.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
#122 Transformation: lol tranise thats tacitus
uhm they never do anything wrong in pta didnt you know?
October 29th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
#122 Transformation: plus the oke still lives in the past , so be kind
October 29th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
My heart bleeds for tyhe lions….DM must be thinking is this worth it!!!
Poor bugger…
October 29th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Better that the players are not lost to overseas clubs ….for sure…no debate about that…i hate losing pokes overseas….
But i wonder if the sharks and wp should rather not get the saffas elsewhere?
I suppose Habana and JF made the approaches?? Or did WP??
And i know we coured the Du Plessis brothers as well…
Anyway…i hope Lions land on there feet….
October 29th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
coured is courted…
October 29th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
pokes is okes…
October 29th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
#107 Katsesnor:
I think what you say is right.
Its surprising that these professiional sporting contracts do not have an early buy-out clause, whereby the player is allowed to leave earlier than contracted, but only if the union is paid back or compensated by the new purchasing union/club.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
#107 Katsesnor:
There is no shortage of good lawyers in Joburg, let us all rest assured.
Fourie, like Andre’ Pretorius and JvN were never a sound investment, always injury prone stars who spent more than half of their spells with the Lions on the disabled list while collecting their full wages. It makes good sense the GLRU was actually happy to see them leaving, I won’t be surprised if in the near future there will be few un paid medical bills claims!
I believe it just a show to avoide the die hard Lions’ supporters making noise.
Wim Albert is a loss though, to lose 3 Springbok No 8s in 3 years’ not easy for any Rugby Union
October 29th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
#129 cab:
This is the shtik Cab, see my #130 posting
Players who spent more than half of their careers on the injury list will not easily find a taker UNLESS they are cleared of their contractual obligations to their union or simply ‘renegated’ on their loop holed contract with the Union only makes a token noise
October 29th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
However, these contracts also need to be carefully done, because a player’s value can often change radically during the contract and the union’s should not be able to lock young players into a 5-year contract where their market value totally exceeds that offered under the terms of the contract.
If Fourie and Alberts are going, i think Muir might want to reconsider his acceptance.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
#131 Hondo:
ja, its a very tough one, at least fourie gave the Lions many years of service so they got their pound of flesh to an extent – but players like joe van niekerk and willemse, upped and offed after a season – after they were thrown a lifeline by the lions.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
ludik and alberts would be gr8 additions to the sharks squad especially as Terblanche who is brilliant is nearing his end
October 29th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
if this was earl rose who wanted to leave, would the lions be kicking up such a fuss?
October 29th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
In a perfect world Sharks would rather have signed Joe Van niekerk and Brent Russell…
October 29th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
and lions Juandre Kruger, cj,bj, and Butch James….sommer Marius Joubert and J Smit at 2 as well….
October 29th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
now i would like bj back at the sharks
as for smitty he already said he will play for no other provoince in sa but the sharks , where he will end his career
butch as much as we love him at the sharks is injured and out for another 9 months , so thats a sad ending i am afraid
actually i wouldnt mind if we bought marius joubert
to me 13 is a big problem at the sharks
man why the fluck we let steyn go ill never know
October 29th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
thing is players like Fourie and Alberts can make or break a team, this is why okes are the moer-in and tearing it up.
October 29th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
#133 cab:
It’s no secret the GLRU is the least professional Union of the big four in SA, that has been the case since early 2000s when a guy name Van Rooyan became their CEO.
A common sense says such a multi contract farces could not possibly happened under the Louis Luyt regime, however, I still believe the Lions were happy to see Fourie gone
October 29th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
No team wants to lose the likes of Fourie and Alberts but in the end the game of rugby is a team effort where the synergy achieved by a group of players matters more than the value of individuals. Obviously players like Alberts and Fourie adds more value and therefore should improves the synergy, but they can be replaced and SA has talent aplenty. The Lions can find quality replacements and I’m sure Muir’s going to do some good in this regard. No player is so good that he cannot be replaced.
October 29th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Free State proves again and again that rugby is a team sport where synergy, and not individual performances, matters most. They lose players but still achieves success.
October 29th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
#138 sharks_lover: Butch is back in January.
October 29th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
The Sharks have never produced a damn thing except cheque-book development and an ethos of dirty play. If you need proof of the fact that kzn is unable to produce players except by buying them, consider that they never won a single Currie Cup until the dawn of professionalism.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
#144 pierre:
get your facts right before making a complete prick of yourself
October 29th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
#146 charo: too late boet he already crossed that bridge
October 29th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
The truth hurts, boys. Personal attacks are not going to change that. The team that won the CC in 1990 consisted almost exclusively of non-Natalians, just like every sharks team since then. Every single sharks legend is non-natalian. You know it’s true.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
#147 pierre:
as i said, get your facts right.
since when was 1990 in the professional era?
jeez – some retards here
October 29th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
#147 pierre:
can only imagine you are a sad weepee supporter.
maties made you lot good in the 70’s and 80’s.
without them buying players through bursaries weepee would have been nowhere.
same with ntvl in the same era – die weermag het alles gedoen om die beste natalse spelers voortrekkerhoogte toe to neem.
suck it up boet
October 29th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
#150 charo: bro go check on rugby talk you will see a article from this morning where is show that from the cheetahs and the bulls, only 3 players in each team are born and raised in those provinces
they all bought players
but typically thses fools that have no idea love to point fingers at the sharks
hey atleast we pay for the players
for 100 years they stole out players in the name of defence , policing , prison services , afrikaans universities etc
now they come cry like babies
bopoohoooofuckinghoooooooooooooooooooo , hand them a free tissue