Selections highlight flawed system
1 Nov 2009
Several tour selections reiterate a sad truth that Peter de Villiers and the Currie Cup coaches aren’t on the same wavelength.
De Villiers has defended the selection of Earl Rose time and again, choosing to ignore the player’s inconsistent offerings in the Super 14 and Currie Cup. He’s rather blamed the Lions’ coaching staff for not giving Rose more opportunities at flyhalf, where De Villiers feels Rose is best.
Chiliboy Ralepelle will tour with the Springboks this November despite playing understudy – when he was fit – to Derick Kuun for the better part of 2009. Bandise Maku is one behind Ralepelle in the Bulls’ hooker queue, but bizarrely has also made De Villiers’ 37-man touring party.
Adriaan Strauss and Tiaan Liebenberg have enjoyed fantastic seasons for the Cheetahs and WP respectively, and have also been involved with the Boks before. It would have made more sense to take these players on tour, as they wouldn’t let the Boks down if Bismarck du Plessis succumbed to injury.
For De Villiers to say Maku has made the touring squad on merit is an interesting statement, as it suggests neither form nor game time in the domestic and Super 14 tournaments are pre-requisites for national selection. Maku is talented and deserves to play at Super 14 and Currie Cup level, but what has he done in those tournaments to deserve elevation to the national squad?
Maku’s selection may be justified if there weren’t other players performing, but that just isn’t the case. It could be justified if Liebenberg (27) and Strauss (23) were on the wrong side of 30, but that isn’t the case either.
Rose is the classic example of a De Villiers favourite keeping a more deserving candidate out of the national set-up. There are other backline players that deserved to tour, WP’s Peter Grant as well as the Cheetahs’ Lionel Mapoe just two that come to mind. In the case of Grant, the tour would provide an alternative flyhalf the opportunity to gain game time so that if Morne Steyn broke down, he would slot in seamlessly. In the case of Mapoe, it would provide an up-and-coming youngster the opportunity to take the next step. Unlike Maku and Rose, Mapoe has earned the right to be there through his consistent performances in the Currie Cup.
There are other players that will feel frustrated. WP flanks Duane Vermeulen and Francois Louw have been outstanding this season, as has Province loosehead Wicus Blaauw. The young flankers would have benefited immensely from a tour experience, but instead De Villiers has opted for Griquas’ Davon Raubenheimer. Instead of Blaauw or other impressive young props like WP Nel and Coenie Oosthuizen, De Villiers has gone for Gurthro Steenkamp, a player that was embarrassed at scrum time in the Currie Cup final.
The decision to take a perfectly good loosehead in Heinke van der Merwe and switch him to tighthead is also ludicrous. Why not give this promising player from the Cheetahs a go? If Os du Randt feels Nel is national prospect, why aren’t the national selectors taking that suggestion to heart?
It’s hard to have faith in De Villiers’ masterplan to defend the Boks’ world title when it’s clear his view differs from that of the Currie Cup coaches. When Ruan Pienaar went back to the Sharks, they played him at No 9, even though De Villiers wants him to get game time at 10 and 15. The Lions prefer to use Rose at fullback or off the bench, while Ralepelle and Maku are regular bench warmers at the Bulls. One way or another, it’s not a healthy situation for Springbok rugby.
De Villiers and the respective coaches need to iron out their communication problems and work toward a common goal. It’s no use to the Boks if a South African side wins the Super 14 or Currie Cup without the starting players De Villiers plans to utilise at Test level.
By Jon Cardinelli
503 Comments
1 Nov 2009, 06:03 am
PDV has to pick the required quota of “quota players”, come hell or high water. Or Butana will fire him.
1 Nov 2009, 06:10 am
Vermeulen, Alberts, Strauss, Liebenberg, Nel, Kockott, Ludik… the Melbourne Rebels and for those not capped… the Wallabies will be calling…
1 Nov 2009, 06:12 am
Pity the likes of Maku, Rose, Ralepelle don’t have the ‘sincerity’ of Charl Langeveld… I don’t know how they can look themselves in the mirror!
1 Nov 2009, 06:40 am
Statement: “Several tour selections reiterate a sad truth that Peter de Villiers and the Currie Cup coaches aren’t on the same wavelength”
Talks are cheap JC, it’s “money that buys the whisky”
1 Nov 2009, 06:48 am
In order to make sense of this squad it needs to be divided into 2. Guys like Odwa are there because they’re part of the existing Bok structure and have the experience. I don’t think PdeV wants to risk a rookie for the games against France and Ireland.
1 Nov 2009, 07:02 am
#5 David:
Both France and Ireland have the teams to beat a full strength Boks when playing at their home grounds.
Sending the Beast, Steenkamp and Chiliboy against them, it could result in broken necks and spines.
1 Nov 2009, 07:15 am
#6 Hondo:
Steenkamp will be on the bench, as will Chiliboy. The point I made is that the core of the squad is the same one that won the 3N and beat the Lions, excepting JdeV and Frans.
1 Nov 2009, 07:25 am
#2 bryce_in_oz:
Don’t get hysterical. Those guys are already playing S14, besides the new ARU rules only allows for one marquee player and a limited number of young foreigners in their Super squads.
1 Nov 2009, 07:46 am
#3 bryce_in_oz: Agreed. Charl did the right thing.
1 Nov 2009, 07:58 am
#8 David:
I suggest you do a bit of ‘research’ on the changes in the pipeline commencing with the introduction of the Melbourne rebels…
1 Nov 2009, 08:08 am
Players out of position at national level is a cancer in our rugby. Anyone advocating it is a fool.
1 Nov 2009, 08:11 am
#10 bryce_in_oz:
This is the only thing I could find that actually addresses the matter, dated 07/10/2009. I don’t know if you have more upto date info?
?We’re a new franchise in a limited market and as such are permitted by the ARU to recruit Australians from abroad whether they’re currently eligible to play for Australia or not.
?We’re permitted to recruit a smattering of Pacific Islanders and Argentinians.
?We’re also allowed to recruit a marquee player.
1 Nov 2009, 08:13 am
Div doesn’t pick this side alone and he has proved he can get the results so lets see who actually runs onto the field and who are just getting a nice long Bok holiday.
These big squads are a joke – the money spent on the Bok tourists would be better spent on rugby development or even have a training camp for them in SA where they could play games against the Super 14 sides for next year.
1 Nov 2009, 08:20 am
As mentioned on another post, let’s have a trial match.
The EOY 2nd-string Boks vs:
Wian Du Preez
Adrian Strauss
WP Nel
Stephen Sykes
David De Villiers
Francois Louw
Duane Vermeulen
Willem Alberts
Jano Vermaak
Burton Francis
Lionel Mapoe
Peter Grant
Waylon Murray
Gio Aplon
Joe Pieterson
Wicus Blaauw
Tiaan Liebenberg
Anton Van Zyl
Jean Deyzel
Sarel Pretorius
Luziko Vulindlu
Louis Ludik
1 Nov 2009, 08:20 am
I’m still blown away that we can be world champions and the no 1 ranked team in the world despite all these political interferences.
1 Nov 2009, 08:22 am
And when they’re overseas, let’s see how the do against:
CJ Van Der Linde
Schalk Britz
BJ Botha
Juandre Kruger
Gerrie Britz
Luke Watson
Wikus Van Heerden
Joe Van Niekerk
Neil De Kock
Butch James
Brent Russell
Jean De Villiers
Marius Joubert
Gcobani Bobo
Frans Steyn
Daan Human
Danie Coetzee
Ross Skeate
Shaun Sowerby
Michael Claassens
Derick Hougaard
Philip Burger
1 Nov 2009, 08:32 am
Good article JC. Only your point about Peter Grant I don’t agree with. Ruan Pienaar is the back-up flyhalf to Morne Steyn. There would be no point in taking Grant on tour.
1 Nov 2009, 08:33 am
Australia need depth:
Anton Van Zyl
Duane Vermeulen
Jean Deyzel
Willem Alberts
Rory Kockott
Sarel Pretorius
?
1 Nov 2009, 08:45 am
Rose’s selection is an absolute joke – he will never be international material- he is a good (at times ) Currie Cup player , nothing more. The reason why he is in the team is because Rose’s dad and De Villiers are big mates
1 Nov 2009, 08:54 am
#19 dh@rv:
Er… Snor is married to Earl’s aunt… they are related…
1 Nov 2009, 09:11 am
#2 bryce_in_oz: You are 100% correct there Bryce. All those players will leave if never given the chance. I for one wont blame them. Actually wish Oz would give them a chance they deserve it and deserve to be playing at the highest level.
Here in SA we will NEVER see players being picked on merit alone ever.
I do feel maybe PdV is under pressure to select certain players.
SA rugby will never grow into the strength that it should be doing if they keep on selecting quota players.
1 Nov 2009, 09:14 am
#18 puff: Don’t be surprised if you see those players playing for OZ. Think most of them have had enough of waiting. They keep performing at the highest level just to be left out to players that don’t deserve to be selected.
1 Nov 2009, 09:18 am
Flawed system? As far as I am concerned the selectors choose their team. If they win, they get some accolades, if they loose they get fired. That seems fair.
1 Nov 2009, 09:19 am
Recon there are a few in the squad who will feel uncomfortable and find it hard to look others in the eye. Pity.
1 Nov 2009, 09:26 am
#21 Puma:
Here in SA we have NEVER picked players on merit alone.
#6 Hondo:
Come now Hondo. You know what the front row would look like in the tests.
1 Nov 2009, 09:38 am
gnash gnash gnash gnash
Whats the poor coach to do. Cc and S14 coaches aren’t playing ball so he has to pull rank and select those they sideline or else walk the gang plank. Only problem is some dire shortsighted lack of clarity when it comes down to playing Rose and Ndungane ahead of Mapoe or Joe Pietersen or Bosman ahead of Le Grange.
Those I would have taken
W. Du Preez
Liebenberg
WP Nel
A. Van Zyl
Vermeulen
Alberts
S. Pretorius
P. Grant
D. Le Grange
L. Mapoe
J. Pietersen
Left behind
J. Smit
J. Du Plessis
C. Ralepelle
A. Hargreaves
D. Raubenheimer
M. Bosman
O. Ndungane
E. Rose
(adams, kirchner, maku, jacobs)
1 Nov 2009, 09:43 am
#26 Kanko should be out also in favor of Alberts. And D. Roussouw still a luxury when better 2nd row or back row prospects are busting down the door.
1 Nov 2009, 09:44 am
#22 Puma:
Most of those players are to old to qualify for Oz, under their present rules which were formulated last year, as none of them would qualify as a “development” player.
“Sitting in Sydney on Friday, the nine-man board also settled on the conditions of the recently-altered policy allowing Super 14 franchises the opportunity to recruit foreigners.
Australian teams can each sign two overseas players for next year’s Super 14, but will be restricted to just one “marquee” foreigner – an international who can never qualify for the Wallabies.
The four Super 14 teams will also be able to contract a second “developing” foreigner yet to represent his native country at Test, sevens or A-team level and could qualify for the Wallabies after three years of residency.
The board accepted a management recommendation that a province could sign two development players if it opted against recruiting an established overseas star.
Marquee signings will be limited to a two-year stint and Super 14 teams must apply to the ARU before contracting foreign players.”
1 Nov 2009, 09:49 am
We should simply revert to the old style of trials. Play an A team against a B team and see who dominates who. Then selectors can stand on their heads if player A outperforms player B he won’t be able to question the call.
1 Nov 2009, 10:04 am
SKOPSKIET,
Would you drop John Smit or rest him?
1 Nov 2009, 10:12 am
#29 skopskiet:
It never worked in the past because coaches still pick the players they intended to in the first place.
As for De Villiers’ selections, I support him despite one or two baffling picks. He’s in the unfortunate situation where not only does he have to satisfy the ruling government as well as the supporters, he also has to keep the spirits up so the “suspect” players go on tour with a belief that even though they’re somewhat lucky, they may just be worthy of the jersey by giving everything they’ve got instead of going through the paces and not caring.
1 Nov 2009, 10:12 am
#29 skopskiet:
Trials, now that’s an idea.
It was during the trials that Avril Williams outplayed Kobus Burger, the media and public’s favourite, for the right wing position for the tests against England in 1984 (I think) to become the first coloured player to be selected on merit. In my view he is still the only one to start of his test career as a merit player. Just a pity it only lasted for two tests before injuries forced him to quit the game.
All the others started of their Bok careers as quotas and through consistent good performances, became merit players.This would include Chester, Breyten, Habana, JPP, Beast.
It was also during the last trials held by a Bok coach that Brent Russell announced himself.
1 Nov 2009, 10:15 am
its time for J. Smit to retire the fat lady has started her swan song and won’t be letting up till the chandelier glass is broken.
Buys, Wp Nel, W. Du Preez, W. Blaauw, H. Van der Merwe are all superior scrummagers to Smit and J. Du Plessis. Something smells rotten in the land of the front row blind mens academy.
1 Nov 2009, 10:16 am
#29 Skop. Trials are from the dark ages when talent is lacking and experience is low. (Strueli era, current Wallabies). The majority of our starting line-up are professional World Cup winners. Making them play trials would be a slap in the face.
1 Nov 2009, 10:22 am
#28 David: Then I feel sorry for them. They must leave and go play in Europe just wasted sitting here playing some of the best rugby and not getting selected at the highest level.
Mark my words David. Oz then will scout here for our youngsters. They were here during craven week already. Bet they were looking at some of the U21′s yesterday too. Maybe not from here but you never know. We are going to lose many if they don’t start selecting on merit alone.
1 Nov 2009, 10:24 am
ja the wallabies could be the sprinboks part 2
they have already had tiaan rathbone and vickerman and the all blacks had that lock from natal
and now i heard the tahs have signed an under 21 blue bull
1 Nov 2009, 10:31 am
I also support Pdv in spite of some c’ckeyed selections. The biggest one being Rose and Ndungane ahead of Mapoe. For me Mapoe was a certain shoe in, perhaps the most exciting talent we’ve seen emerge out the Cc this year. I would also take Le Grange as the best no.12 on display.
W. Du Preez
T. Liebenberg or A. Strauss
WP Nel
A. Van Zyl
D. Vermeulen
W. Alberts
S. Pretorius
Le Grange
Mapoe
J. Pietersen
Are all superior to some their counterparts in the squad
1 Nov 2009, 10:37 am
#37 and in a trials match these guys would destroy the likes of Beast Ralepelle Smit Kanko Ndungane Rose etc
1 Nov 2009, 10:41 am
#33 skopskiet:
The S14 replaced the trials as a basis for selection. Let’s see how the youngsters go next year before we get our knickers in a twist.
Besides, scrumming isn’t the only criteria for a prop at test level, although it is a prime requisite.
1 Nov 2009, 10:46 am
#39 David: I would of thought scrumming would be the primary requisite of any prop!!!!
1 Nov 2009, 10:47 am
1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Nel
4. Sharpe
5. Horwill
6. Smith
7. Elsom
8. Vermeulen
9. Kockott
10. Giteau
11. Ione
12. Barnes
13. Ashley-Cooper
14. Ludik
15. Shepherd
Hmmm…
1 Nov 2009, 10:51 am
I personally would not have chosen
J Smit at 3…[WP NEL]
Jannie Du Plessis [ Coenie Oosthuisen ]
Maku [ would have had J Smit there ]
F Hougaard [ Mapoe ]
Otherwise lets see how it goes….
Front row is a massive concern…..the 2 strongest front rows in the country have zero represenation.
Go figure.
1 Nov 2009, 10:51 am
#41 puff:
I see you’ve found something to keep yourself entertained with.
1 Nov 2009, 10:52 am
I feel sorry for players who are not selected on merit
because they dont select themselves.I sincerely hope the
games against Ireland and France dont prove a bridge to
far for the Boks,because players like Bakkies were
showing signs of fatigue in the Currie Cup final.
The end of the year tours at the end of a tough season
is always a no win situation for the touring party,because
they are expected to win and if they dont their critics
will write them off as has-been.
1 Nov 2009, 10:57 am
In the Nh the set pieces form the fundamentals of the game still far more than here or in Oz or Nz where open play sets a precedent. Players like Kanko and Rose with their frilly play making show boating wont make any impression on the French or Irish. Also if front row gets dominated in set scrum’s we will get done, no question.
J. Du Plessis and Smit and perhaps even Beast, not to mention Chilli and Maku are going to be going through a baptism of fire up there and I hope these Achilles heels don’t come back to bite us big time on this impending Eoyt.
1 Nov 2009, 10:58 am
#35 Puma:
I agree that the Aussies have been scouting our youngsters. Unfortunately, because of their paucity of depth, they can offer these kids a fast track to the S14, and then the Wobblies after 3 years. I suppose it’s not much different to any aggressive immigration policy where you need specific skills.
1 Nov 2009, 11:01 am
Essentially, PDV is saying he knows what he has in the likes of:
Adrian Strauss
Tiaan Liebenberg
Jean Deyzel
Duane Vermeulen
etc.
which is why he’s taking guys like Johnson (personally, I’m looking forward to watching him play), Maku and Raubenheimer.
But his logic is flawed.
Surely he knows what he has in Earl Rose too?
Wouldn’t it make sense to take Burton Francis in Rose’s place?
Francis was going to start for the Emerging Boks against the Lions but got injured, so PDV actually hasn’t seen him perform at a higher level.
Adams surely is a stop-gap until Vermaak is fit again.
I truly wouldn’t be surprised to see Rory Kockott heading over to Oz.
He has been ignored by PDV when on form, and he now looks to be dropping down the pecking order at the Sharks.
PDV knows what he has in Ndungane too.
While I rate the player, I don’t think he’s been at his best.
Mapoe should tour in his place.
1 Nov 2009, 11:02 am
They should do away with this large tour group thing. It is obvious which players are going to play and which are nowhere near international calibre. And its not just a race thing, its also old favourites from junior level getting selected over true international quality. Why are Potgieter and Hargreaves going on tour and lets face I know he’s had a good season and all, but honestly do you see Viljoen ever playing for the boks?
The back-up squad is a joke. It seems like PdV doesn’t want to put pressure on his chosen 22 by actually picking international quality players.
P.S. Grant10 you’re a joke, Habanna and Larkham might not agree with you.
1 Nov 2009, 11:03 am
interesting thing about wp nel… according to supersport during the rugby yesterday he only weighs 92kg!!!!!! they keep putting up these made up farkin weights for the players. please tell me somebody else gets irritated by this? how can they get it so wrong? and they say bakkies is 4kg lighter than matfield!
somebody please tell me how i can get a message to supersport and complain about this incompetence? according to yesterday’s coverage only 3 of the front rowers (out of 6) were over 100kg! WTF??????!!!!!
1 Nov 2009, 11:05 am
#47 puff:
Ndungane is an experienced Bok regular, which is why he’s there for the games against France and Ireland.
I would love to see Kocket playing for an Aussie S14 and national side. He’d be worth a fortune to us in penalties and yellows.
1 Nov 2009, 11:07 am
#48 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): I am a joke??
A bit like your shark front row.
1 Nov 2009, 11:11 am
The 3 “wise” men have yet again shown a fat middle finger to Tim Noakes and his theories about resting players by selecting every “overplayed” player (mainly Bulls and Sharks who took part in the tri-nations).
According to what was published here last week, Noakes reckons that if these players are not rested the wheels will start falling off very soon (2010 is going to be a nightmare for SA rugby in comparison to 2009). He, in fact, reckons the cracks will already start to show during the EOYT.
We will soon see who is right and who is wrong in this regard.
1 Nov 2009, 11:11 am
#50 David:
Ndungane has six test caps.
I wouldn’t call that very experienced.
However, I do acknowledge that he’s more familiar with the Bok set-up than Mapoe.
But is he more familiar with it than Nokwe?
Anyway, do you really think he’ll make the 22 against France or Ireland?
Only if Habana, Pieterson or Kirchner are injured, surely.
1 Nov 2009, 11:11 am
#49 iamyourfather:
According to the Cheetahs site Nel is 116kg.
The Bulls site also has Victor 8kgs lighter than Bakkies.
1 Nov 2009, 11:12 am
Mtawarira
Du Plessis
Smit
Botha
Matfield
Brussow
Burger
Spies
Du Preez
Steyn
Habana
Jacobs
Fourie
Pieterson
Pienaar
Du Plessis
Ralepelle
Bekker
Rossouw
Adams
Olivier
Kirchner
Surely this will be the first-choice 22 for up north.
Personally, I’d swop Jacobs and Olivier.
1 Nov 2009, 11:14 am
#54 David:
They also stated that Big Vic is 1.98m.
When I’ve always read he’s 2m tall.
1 Nov 2009, 11:16 am
#55 puff:
I reckon Kirchner will start at 15, with Ruan as the backline utility player on the bench.
As for Ndungane, I assume he’s there in case of last minute injury problems to either Habs or JP.
1 Nov 2009, 11:17 am
#56 puff:
When I was in the Navy during national service they credited me with an extra 4 cm’s in height and even got the colour of my eyes wrong.
So these things happen.
1 Nov 2009, 11:17 am
#56 puff:
No one could reach that high to get a proper measurement.
1 Nov 2009, 11:19 am
#58 Robzim:
It must have been the high heels.
1 Nov 2009, 11:20 am
#57 David:
It does make sense to have these Bulls:
Du Preez
Steyn
Olivier
Habana
Kirchner
as first-choice Bok backline players on tour for some good continuity.
With Adams, Pienaar and Jacobs on the bench to open up tired defences when they come on in the second half.
1 Nov 2009, 11:21 am
#51 grant10: You mean our all conquering Springbok frontrow.
#52 Robzim: The cracks have already started to show Rob. The tight-5 in particular need a rest, the Sharks frontrow were terrible and Bakkies is a shadow of himself. Big Vic still going strong, but not as dominant as mid-season.
Its really sad when the players who have performed well all season get ignored. Merit and form, bull.
Tiaan (best hooker in CC)
Deysel (overlooked for Pottie)
WP Nel (a scrumming sensation and definately one for the future)
Locks?? I could name many better than Hargreaves?
Mapoe (best wing in CC)
1 Nov 2009, 11:22 am
Lol! The players stats were horribly wrong yesterday. There is no way Victor is heavier than Bakkies, I doubt JLP is 1.98m tall, he could have played lock then!
1 Nov 2009, 11:26 am
By my calculations there are 5 players who can slot in at scrumhalf. WTF? Is this some kind of joke?
1 Nov 2009, 11:27 am
#63 Lions_Soutie:
I reckon by the time the game started everyone at SuperSport was already pissed.
1 Nov 2009, 11:28 am
Dewalt Potgieter selection is the correct one…he is a class act…in fact i would have him at 7 before Schalk….
But our problems going to be in the scrums….
1 Nov 2009, 11:29 am
#64 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
9 is the new black. You start there and then progress up in number.
1 Nov 2009, 11:30 am
#56 puff:
When he enters the lineout, its more like 3m.
1 Nov 2009, 11:34 am
#66 grant10: Of course you do, you love little Pottie. I think he’s a good player and wouldn’t let down the jersey, but there are at least 4 better loosies who will be watching from the sofa. He’s an SA rugby favourite.
1 Nov 2009, 11:34 am
#62 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
Yeah, Hoskins is insulting the intelligence of the public with his “merit is the only criterion” statement.
I have no faith in this bunch any more.
1 Nov 2009, 11:35 am
Think we all need to remember that this tour, as openly stated, will be about testing new combinations and players. Nothing is set in stone and PDV, unlike Jake, will make corrections if necessary and undoubtedly after the next S14 the squad will begin taking on a different look to the one announced yesterday.
1 Nov 2009, 11:39 am
#69 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
Deyzel is explosive, but too one dimensional at the moment.
He plays like he’s a one-man team.
Potgieter is more well-rounded and is a fantastic utility loosie who can play at 6, 7 or 8.
Plus he has sound leadership qualities which should be developed further.
At this point, I’d have Vermeulen, Frans Louw and Alberts ahead of Deyzel too.
And Ashley Johnson.
1 Nov 2009, 11:40 am
heaven forbid M Steyn get hurt….
1 Nov 2009, 11:41 am
#70 Robzim: Hi Rob….good final yesterday….pity about the result…but M Steyn got ice in the veins….
1 Nov 2009, 11:46 am
#72 puff: Interesting analysis. Deysel’s linking and hands have developed really well this season. Not to mention he made Pottie his ***** whenever they met this season. I had Deysel, Vermuelen, Alberts and Stegman all more deserving than Pottie, Raubenheimer and Johnson.
1 Nov 2009, 11:48 am
Aussie can have Kockott he’s no loss to us. Even Macloed at Sharks better than him. I’m fine with Adams a far better distributor of the ball than Fdp even, but there are others like S. Pretorius and F. Hougaard who are great prospects at scrum half and far better than R. Pienaar at 9 too.
Viljoen at 15 a good call better than Kirchner in all aspects of Fb play.
Only real issue is front row and Rose ahead of Mapoe and back row lacking depth all of a sudden with Burger Spies Brussow as starters and then Johnson Raubenheimer and Kanko as back up.
We will miss the likes of Vermeulen, Alberts, Nel, Du Preez, Blaauw, Liebenberg, Strauss and Mapoe and possibly a better 12 in Le Grange over Olivier or Jacobs.
1 Nov 2009, 11:50 am
#75 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
Deyzel pilfers the ball off the ground well because of his upper body strength.
But he tries to carry the ball up a little too often at the expense of reading the play around him.
Often there’s a better option to take, but he doesn’t seem to have or care about periphery vision and passing/offloading.
Also, his “bash and crash” style has become all too predictable, and more often than not this season, opposition players can see him coming and actually smash him back.
Potgieter may not have more power, but he defs has more skills and a more well rounded game.
1 Nov 2009, 11:52 am
periphery = peripheral
1 Nov 2009, 11:53 am
#75 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): deysel would on done well on the heavy NH fields…as would Duane Vermeulen…W Alberts …
But DEwalt is the most able and skilled to slot in at 6 …7 or 8….
He is being touted as a possible Bok skipper post 2011….and yesterday showed his worth again. To call him Deysels ***** may be a bit of a stretch…..
Too many of the Shatks fans seem to be blinkered by provincialsism.
1 Nov 2009, 11:53 am
#76 skopskiet:
You forgot Pottie in the loosie mix and Bosman at 12, possibly also covering 10 in an emergency.
1 Nov 2009, 11:53 am
How does a guy like Peter Grant not make the squad, I mean he can cover 10 and 12? At least Meyer Bosman is there, he’s had a great season.
1 Nov 2009, 11:54 am
Potgieter is class and can fetch or carry or link way better than 1 dimensional Deysel.
Pottie is a captains arm band in the waiting besides being a younger version of Schalk Burger with a few extra brain cells to boot. He’s little on the light side for a 7 or 8 so would have him at 6 after Brussow. Pottie the perfect bench loose forward far better than Kanko or Roussouw.
1 Nov 2009, 11:55 am
#77 puff:
I agree with you there. Pottie is one of the few loosies in contention that is also a natural ball player.
1 Nov 2009, 12:02 pm
#79 grant10: Dude, provinsionalism has got nothing to do with it, as I said in the beginnig Hargreaves is also only there from junior level performance. Also I said Stegman would’ve made a better choice. How well did he play in the final? Same with Vermuelen and Alberts. But never mind, for somebody who hates the utility player you seem happy to select an inferior player cause he can play 6,7 and 8. Something Deysel could also manage, Vermulen can cover 7 and 8. Stegman specialist 6, Alberts 7 and 8. The fact that Pottie is touted as a future bok just reinforcers my argument. It’ll probably end up happening too.
1 Nov 2009, 12:04 pm
#83 David: He also gets handed off at least once every game. And Stegman is a far superior 6. He’s the only back-up we have for Brussow.
1 Nov 2009, 12:05 pm
Yes David Potgieter is the correct call at versatile loose forward cover but I would have dropped Kanko for Vermeulen and or Alberts. In fact I think I would have taken Alberts and Vermeulen and left Kanko and Roussouw behind.
I also would have taken Le Grange or Grant ahead of Bosman, and obviously Mapoe ahead of Ndungane or Rose.
1 Nov 2009, 12:07 pm
#82 skopskiet: Younger version of Schalk? Dude are you on tic? Pottie is less physical than Heinrich. Schalk at his best, hurts people physically. Not sure Pottie leaves his mark even at CC level. Don’t think Jerry Collins would have been worried.
1 Nov 2009, 12:07 pm
Big losers are Joe Pietersen and Mapoe…..
And W DU PREEZ and WP NEL.
But hell that Coenie Oosthuisen is a scary beast…..monster….what a prospect…..
Hope Heinke converts succesfully to 3….strong as an ox….without doubr the most powerful loosehead in the country….
Baptism of fire at 3 in the N H though…
1 Nov 2009, 12:08 pm
Cant believe Maku and Rose is in the team; MAKU 3rd choice at the bulls and being selected before Derick Kuin and Joe Peterson is 50times beter than cant catch a ball Rose…..ja what that is something the new beter south africa must get use to…….
1 Nov 2009, 12:10 pm
#63 Lions_Soutie:
Correct… seems like ‘quotas’ have extended to the SS stats team… they also had either Nel or Coenie at 94kgs… where Nel in 116kgs… and Coenie a massive 126kgs…
1 Nov 2009, 12:11 pm
well rather full up the quota now then around time of wc 2011?
-potgieter call up? his game yesterday was week in comparison to danie rosouw stegman viljoen-see him as a leader figure and i supose you choose players from wining sides
-tho the gwk flanker is a slap in the face to players like deysel alberts vermulen louw viljoen stegman-id even go as far to say as daniels =P
backs;rian viljoen ?maybe its time to say its sensible to choose players currently in the s14 as they are recognised higher teir players?
hargreeves -proud of my sharkie sjoe-but poor choice -maybe this whole leadership thing i dont know -anyways gives some of those deserved some time to rest -heres hoping that the bulls players are to tired to reach there bench mark in the future haha .congratz bulle
1 Nov 2009, 12:12 pm
I disagree strongly on guthro steenkamp, he is not a quota at all and an absolute bull in the tightloose and one of the biggest reasons the bulls are still competitive, he is fearless and gets stuck into everything, and the scrum contest with WP Nel was a very even one, where he monstered WP on at least one occasion. it was wian du preez who was drukking werner kruger.
raubenheiner over deysel, albers, vermeulen or louw is not a merit selection.
but then again the non-selection of mapoe was mind-boggling.
1 Nov 2009, 12:15 pm
#84 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
#86 skopskiet:
I would have selected Alberts as the perfect backup for the role that Rossouw has played over the years at 7/8 and 4 lock cover.
Roussow is going as the designated backup for Bakkies, so I wouldn’t have left him behind.
I have a feeling that PdeV is more interested in what will happen after 2011 as far as this EOYT midweek games are concerned, rather than the WC. He’s probably got a good idea who his first and second choice players are for that.
As a wing, Mapoe will probably get more experience with ball in hand in the national 7s side, than he will sitting on the bench as cover for Brian or JP.
With no B&IL tour to attract the players, I can see a massive exodus of our senior players after the WC, due to retirement and the lure of the extra pension money.
1 Nov 2009, 12:15 pm
the only thing i would say is give the maestro a break, he;s made some crazy selections before and they have worked bladdy well – who knows, next thing we klap france and ireland too…
1 Nov 2009, 12:17 pm
#84 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Dewalt in my book has all the attributes to be a Bok 8….thats where i would like him to play eventually.
Agree with Steggmann as back up to Brussow.
But feel Dewalt better than Deysel at 7…not saying Deysel is poor…think he is damn good actually.
Yes…you right…i like specialists …especially at 15….10….9….8…..1 and 3….
Hate players being tested out in new positions at tyhe highest levels….criminal in my opinion….
If you want to experiment 2 things must apply in my book
1 The players committed buy in
2 Not at Test level…rather CC …even super 14 a huge ask.
But thats just me…seems most happy to gamble…maybe just my conservative nature when it comes to rugby.
1 Nov 2009, 12:20 pm
Potgieter far better versatile loose forward than Stegman and possibly a better no. 6 fetcher than him too. Kanko is the luxury in the package. Hargreaves a call from out the blue probably a throw back to junior associations with Pdv. I can live with Hargreaves, Raubenheimer, Johnson, Adams, though I’d have made adjustments to include Vermeulen and Alberts ahead of Kanko and Roussouw, and I’d have certainly taken Mapoe and not Rose or Ndungane, probably taken Le Grange or Grant ahead of Bosman.
1 Nov 2009, 12:21 pm
#92 cab: agree….guthro a fine loosehead…did very well yesterday…Wiaan du preez monstered Werner Kruger though!!!
1 Nov 2009, 12:22 pm
btw wynand was dam good yesterday? yes -cant disagree-hes perfectly able to play in jean devilliers place -id like to see him head to wp so u guys can start acknowleging that =D
1 Nov 2009, 12:23 pm
6. potgieter 7. deysel/louw 8. alberts
be a helluva good combination too.
1 Nov 2009, 12:25 pm
That Mapoe a handfull….best prospect wing i have seen since habana burst on the scene….would love to have seen him,Juan de Jongh together…anyway..i am sure its to do with the 7 s contract he has sighned….
Mapoe will be there sooner than later….hell he is a special talent.
1 Nov 2009, 12:28 pm
Actually, when you look at this squad, it’s a rather conservative one with only 4 “prospects” in Maku, Raubenheimer, de Jongh and Hargreaves being given a chance at a more senior level. All have u/21 credentials.
1 Nov 2009, 12:29 pm
a very good squad selection by pdv,a nice mixture of white and black quotas.
1 Nov 2009, 12:30 pm
Gurthro stakes his claim squarely and probably a better LH than Beast. Its Smit and Du Plessis that are the passengers in the front row, not Gurthro, if Smit must go as captain then he should go as hooker otherwise hang up his boots.
1 Nov 2009, 12:30 pm
Heinke last played in April…a bigger ask on him than on J Smit…if he makes it at 3 it will be a massive boost for Boks….
Brave to accept the challenge…go Heinke!!!
1 Nov 2009, 12:31 pm
#104 grant10: thought u didnt like em played outa position =P
1 Nov 2009, 12:32 pm
If Heinke shoots the lights out as a 3…where does that leave J Smit????
1 Nov 2009, 12:35 pm
grant why do u under estimate the value of a captain that we have in j smit
1 Nov 2009, 12:36 pm
Hello All, hooray back to Springbok talk…… Have really enjoyed the Currie Cup build up chatter but your National Team is my favourite…..
Probably because I can actually get a chance to see these guys play in real life, not just on TV.
Blue Bulls winning yesterday was the icing on the cake though!!! Just basking in the glory of supporting a winning team for a change!!
Hope the Bulls Boys and Brussow get a few days break before flying up here!
1 Nov 2009, 12:36 pm
A couple of key injuries………
A bout of swine flu……
A red card here and there…….
Some political behind the scenes shenanigans….
A eye-gauge 37 seconds into a game……
and hey…….you okes are looking vulnerable.
1 Nov 2009, 12:36 pm
Potgieter won plenty ball on the ground yesterday and even beat Brussow to a couple 50/50 balls plus linking well with others in the loose. Spies is more of a liability in the handling dept than Potgieter, and its Brussow’s immense strength in the carry that is more mind boggling than his actual fetching credentials. Potgieter way better choice as extra loosie for my money than Deysel or Stegman.
1 Nov 2009, 12:37 pm
#106 grant10:
Hello…
1 Nov 2009, 12:37 pm
#105 80srovers: I dont….seems that the conversion of J Smit to 3 has opened a can of worms….now needing to risk Heinke…and Buys now converting to hooker to accomodate heinke at the lions….
Brave move by heinke…hope he manages…to be fair i think he has the build and ability to convert better than Smit…..
1 Nov 2009, 12:39 pm
#111 carol: Hi there…please send my congrats to BDB and Superbul and the other Bulls fans ona great Bulls season…
1 Nov 2009, 12:40 pm
overrated players like kanko and wynand olivier completes the picture just nicely.how many chances are we going to give these guys?
1 Nov 2009, 12:40 pm
I think Smit should consider playing an impact role coming off the bench in the 2nd half cos:
- the scrums are depowered especially in last 20
- can benefit from his exp and captaincy at closing out close ones
- as a replacment he covers all three frontrow positions
a starting front row of:
Guthro / Bismarck / WP Nel = would be extremely capable and mae up a helluva unit in the early thunderous tighloose exchanges.
1 Nov 2009, 12:41 pm
#110 skopskiet: thos balls where won illegaly ,even comentators had a bit to say about it -and alot of the balls had already been won -i thinki stegman had a thumper of a game !was far better on the ground than potgieter
1 Nov 2009, 12:42 pm
#109 cane:
lol, they gotta keep the controversy away from the ireland game, and not select schalla the great.
1 Nov 2009, 12:43 pm
#107 80srovers: i would have J Smit at 2…and as captain….if not …V Matfield as captain.
I would never have J Smit at 3 …he cant scrum…not fair on him or the rest of the team…..
Smit at 2 i am happy…maybe at a strtch at loosehead…but at 3….for me…not amn option…its nuts…
1 Nov 2009, 12:43 pm
Its funny how black uncapped young prospects are always quotas and white ones are bolters. Which eva word you wana use its still young guys being GROOMED. Call me an idiot if will I lyk the look of this team and not because of peoples color.
1 Nov 2009, 12:44 pm
#115 cab: aha….the man starts to see the light!!!
1 Nov 2009, 12:44 pm
Anyone who thinks Guthro Steenkamp is an acceptable scrummager knows nothing about the frontrow. He pops out his shoulder to push on the side of the TH. These means it is difficult to push him back but it allows the TH to put a ton of pressure on the hooker and that’s why the other side struggled so heavily. Steenkamp is really good in the loose but is a poor scrummager
1 Nov 2009, 12:45 pm
#116 80srovers: You sharkies just dont like Dewalt because he keeps Deysel out the team???
1 Nov 2009, 12:45 pm
#118 grant10:
you cannot leave bismarck out, he is the best hooker in world rugby at the moment.
1 Nov 2009, 12:47 pm
#121 HulkSmash:
that may be true, but i saw at least one scrum where the bulls decimated the cheetahs, so not sure its as open and shut as you make out.
1 Nov 2009, 12:47 pm
In a perfect world the frontrow would be 1 heinke
2 J Smit
3 CJ
Bring on beast and bissy last 30 to wreak havoc….
Bobs your aunt
1 Nov 2009, 12:48 pm
#113 grant10: Will do, very quiet there today, think there may be a few sore heads!!
1 Nov 2009, 12:48 pm
#119 skunk: idiot -some players are not merit or even experienced enough to be considered as bok material-eg hargreeves
1 Nov 2009, 12:50 pm
#123 cab: ja…but then i get trial for treason….i like your suggestion Smit off the bench..
1 Nov 2009, 12:51 pm
playing Smit as impact the better way to go and a front row of Gurthro Bismark and Nel with Buys and W. Du Preez in the wings nothing to be shy about. Have Smit and Beast off bench with Gurthro and Nel or Heinke starting a better way to go than other way around.
Stegman is ok but not a shadow on Brussow and Potgieter still better loosie cover for me any day of the week than either Deysel or Stegman surely because of his overall versatility across the back row. Kanko is the weak link there.
1 Nov 2009, 12:51 pm
its not about the scrums, that is a facet, but with the modern game you want guys who can hold their own but are primarily tightforwards, its all about the tightloose and tacklepoint.
1 Nov 2009, 12:52 pm
#127 80srovers: I always rated A Hargreaves…watch him come on big time….better than bloody J Muller!!
1 Nov 2009, 12:53 pm
#128 grant10:
that was always where he was going to end up, but they wanted his captaincy against the Lions. He did bladdy well here, regardless of what you say.
1 Nov 2009, 12:53 pm
#125 grant10: In a perfect world that is who I would start too. Would never ever leave out our Captain.
Then this is not a perfect world and Boks will never be selected on merit either. So we will have to live with it.
This Sharkie by the way is very pleased that D. Potgieter was selected. Think he will be our next Bok Captain after wc 2011. Probably captain the mid week games too and not. Chili as many think.
Just wish that Alberts, Deysel, Vermeulen, J. Pietersen, Mopoe, Vermaak even Kockott had a chance. Adams is 30 now. Unless they going to use Ruan to be back scrummie, FB and FH. Shame man he too going to be messed about like Fransie was.
1 Nov 2009, 12:55 pm
@127
If I remember correctly AH is a fomer junior bok captain. He is a better lineout jumper than both sykes and muller. And he is smarter than AVZ
1 Nov 2009, 12:56 pm
the days of scruming beasts like tommie laubscher and guy kebble are way gone – its just too frenetic a game to support these body shapes – in fact props take tremendous pressure on their hearts with their frames that they have to haul around.
even the mighty os du rand was not a beast in the scrums, esp in his twilight years, where the french and english drukked him at scrum time, but in the tightloose, good god what a piledriving machine.
1 Nov 2009, 12:56 pm
Thank God that Muller eventually put to pasture what a damn relief. Next is Roussouw and then Smit, then we start cooking with some gas again.
1 Nov 2009, 12:57 pm
#132 cab: He did too Cabbie agree.
We cant have Smit off the bench for goodness sake. Does McCaw play off the bench? Never man we need our Captain to play the full 80min. Look what happened when he came off in the first test against the Lions? We almost lost until he came back on. Play Bissie off the bench rather.
1 Nov 2009, 12:58 pm
Brilliant article.
Some of the selections are a complete joke. PdV has been an arrogant twit. Reinforcing what a poor judge of talent he is!
Remember this is the guy who didnt pick Brussow and Morne Steyn in the original Bok team. Two of the superstars of the year.
1 Nov 2009, 12:58 pm
#137 Puma: 2nd paragraph not meant for you Cabbie. Just speaking in general there.
1 Nov 2009, 12:59 pm
#138 WP_: Last paragraph spot on WP. Now both are stars. They got a lucky break to play in the Lions series and proved they should have started first up.
1 Nov 2009, 13:00 pm
#137 Puma:
he cant play for 80, he’s mobility in the tightloose is his strength, by 60min he is poked and looks like he might have a corronary – rather get him on at the sharp end when games are close, bmt is need to close out, he can run full-out for 30mins and the scrums are less of an issue.
1 Nov 2009, 13:03 pm
smit needs to be there until 2011, even as an impact player, he will add tremendous value to shaping the youngsters that come thru, this is one guy who will take anythin for the team, just like fitzy.
1 Nov 2009, 13:03 pm
#141 cab: He did play almost the whole 80min in the 2nd test against the Lions.
We come apart when he comes off. Not sure why but we do.
1 Nov 2009, 13:03 pm
#130 cab: no cab….you need competent platforms to launch. If the scrum in a shambles it messes up the whole rhythm of the team. We must neber be lulled into accepting a weak scrumming front row is acceptable….we simply do not have to…we are Boks…noty bloody tiddlywinks platers….
That attitude is going to get us into a lot of trouble…really boet…we must never accept poor scrumming through accomodation selections…it is weak!!
1 Nov 2009, 13:04 pm
WP still carrying huge grudge around his neck even after this coach brought home the bacon time and again this year. Poor supporters the Sa problem perhaps not so much a case of poor coaches.
1 Nov 2009, 13:04 pm
#132 cab: he did well in 1 st test….
1 Nov 2009, 13:05 pm
#142 cab: Yes agree Cabbie, Smitty has to stay until 2011. Remember Fitzy was older when the ABs beat us in 1996 here in their first ever test series win against the Boks.
Then he played Hooker. Maybe they should put John back to hooker.
1 Nov 2009, 13:06 pm
Yeah Puma. Luckily they got their chances eventually.
Was hoping guys like Vermeulen, Mapoe, Liebenberg, A Strauss, WP Nel might get a chance.
Such a pity
1 Nov 2009, 13:06 pm
battery low. Out.
Go the quotas, show all these delinquent ostriches a thing or two.
1 Nov 2009, 13:08 pm
#133 Puma: yeah…although i heard chilli is captaining midweek team…but dewaly may be long term skipper
1 Nov 2009, 13:08 pm
#148 WP_: I was too WP. What a pity those players never got a chance. They all proved they are Bok material.
Some selections just are crazy.
1 Nov 2009, 13:09 pm
#144 grant10:
so how come the Bulls are the best side in the world with their underpowered scrum if it is so important?
1 Nov 2009, 13:10 pm
#150 grant10: Well I read it somewhere awhile back. I think somehow it will be D. Potgieter. Going to be a great Captain one day. A born leader like John. Impressed me in the E. Boks side.
1 Nov 2009, 13:11 pm
the sharks fans were rubbing it in about their return of their springboks but at the end of the day the majority of them were nothing but a bunch of quotas and overrated players!ffs jannie’cant scrum’du plessis still in every squad,he is more suited to playing with women than a rugby ball.
1 Nov 2009, 13:12 pm
Shut up skop. Take off you’re quota tinted glasses and see the squad for what it is. A poor representation of the best players in the country. Sad
1 Nov 2009, 13:14 pm
u get stuck on something like a broken record and u forget to see the wood from the trees – if wp, the cheetahs and the lions have got such great scrums and its so all-important – wtf they always get the wooden spoon?
1 Nov 2009, 13:14 pm
#152 cab: imagine how much better they would be with a dominant scrum Cab?
And imagine Brussow and Spies flying off the back of a scrum going forward or holding its own?
I dont believe we can / should compromise cab….especially at 3…
1 Nov 2009, 13:15 pm
#156 cab: okay cab…i gotta run….
Weak front rows the answer it seems…
Outta here all…
1 Nov 2009, 13:17 pm
#157 grant10:
but you miss my point, which is would they be, since its a tradeoff between scrumming and mobility – perhaps they have some rock in the scrums but prefer the mobbility of steenkamp – and i can tell you right now it is bakkies and gurthro that are key to the bulls success.
1 Nov 2009, 13:27 pm
Cheers Cabbie. I am out of here now. Hope its a nice day there in lovely Paris.
1 Nov 2009, 13:29 pm
#159 cab: Okay …gotta run but last comment cab….
I feel the 1 and 2 at boks are cery good in the tightloose…beast and bissy. I also see them as being no more than average come scrum time.
The luxury of having another fantastic tight loose player as a 3…which most teams build there scrums around…is…to me…a luxury and too high a risk. I know i am pedantic about this…but it appears …to me anyway…to be negatively impacting on Spies in particular.
And at the sharks Kanko is bearing the brunt.
I am not anti Smit at all….he is a legend and i have the greatest respect for what he has sacrificied for bok and indeed world rugby…..
However i believe if we want him at 2011 he needs to either revert to 2…in which case Bissy is sacrificed….or off the bench as per your option….
I would go with off the bench.
Off to mates…cheers
By the way the mates and i will debate this too….
1 Nov 2009, 13:30 pm
#160 Puma:
cheers, nah its kak over here, am sure much nicer where u are.
1 Nov 2009, 13:52 pm
“It’s hard to have faith in De Villiers’ masterplan to defend the Boks’ world title when it’s clear his view differs from that of the Currie Cup coaches.”
are we seriously back to this again? so we can completely ignore what he has achieved this year because you don’t agree with his squad selection. baw
1 Nov 2009, 14:13 pm
#119 skunk: u said it!
thats the problem in this country when it comes to the actual rugby supporters
1 Nov 2009, 14:15 pm
#129 skopskiet: i think most knowledgeable rugby fans stop listening to comments that start with dropping the captain
why fix whats nt broke, 1st person u pick is ur captain, then ur kicker, then move on…when will okes grasp this concept???
1 Nov 2009, 14:30 pm
#115 cab: Well if youre talking starting front row I would say why not Heink at 1 instead of Gurthro? If youre looking for impact loose forwardish type play Beast is as good as Gurthro. But come srum time Heinke would be formidable in a front row with Bismarck and WP Nel
1 Nov 2009, 14:37 pm
I’m genuinely suprised that Hilton Lobberts and Kabamba Floors didnt make that squad!
They would be in line with PdV’s ridiculous and outrageous selections.
1 Nov 2009, 14:45 pm
am indifferent abt sum of d bok selections bt overall squad is on the money.
rose should be nowhere near squad,talented he is bt not bok quality.Maku and Hargreaves hav huge upsides ability wise bt wud hav pickd Strauss,F.vd Merwe.griquas duo of Raubenheimer,Viljoen have bn superb-anyone who watchd CC will concur.Raubenheimer is a true blindside with speed,skill set,workrate.only downside is he is a lil on da lightside.Plays exactly like AB Adam Thompson.Viljoen is conventional 15 with a boot that matches Frans Steyn.can drop frm 60m out.Heinie Adams good replacement 4 Ricky plus Vermaak is injured.Kockott out of form,Duvenage stil greenhorn.so makes sense.
Heinkie at 3 is a move that many on this blog hav bn askin 4,plus Pdiv has coachd da man-is actually built more like a tighthead than loosehead.calculated risk.unl ucky WP nel.Bosman selection is consistent bt he is at best avg.played wel in flnal though.
Biggest shock 4 me is no Mapoe.he in my view shud b a certainty ahead of both Odwa/Jongi even.
1 Nov 2009, 14:54 pm
Yeah Mishini on the money most those observations
From the back Viljoen deserve the call up best 15 in country with a boot to match F. Steyn.
Adams long past due recognition great service and ability at 9
Bosman a mediocre option and Mapoe should definitely have got the nod over one of Rose Odwa or Nokwe
Front row is where we going to get hurt worst of all thats where they missed a trick. Maybe Heinke solves the issue but J. Dup should never have gone.
1 Nov 2009, 14:54 pm
go pdv!
1 Nov 2009, 15:00 pm
After having time to give the selections some thought, it’s fairly obvious that PdeV is treating the midweek games as a way of looking at young players who have little S14 exposure and probably won’t next year either, as a way of identifying future prospects post WC 2011.
Let’s face it, neither Leicester nor Saracens are going to risk their top players in the middle of the season for a match like this, so there’s very little at stake.
Seen in this light, players like Vermeulen, Alberts, Stegman etc. who’s talents are already known, wouldn’t have shown PdeV more than he already knows about them.
Of the others, Heini makes sense as backup for FduP as he’s played with Morne on numerous occassions and risking another 9,10 combo in the main games would have been too much of a gamble, considering the short preparation period.
Viljoen, in retrospect, is an inspired replacement for Frans. He’s got an enormous boot and is second only to Frans with the long range goal attempts. He’s also a very solid player.
All in all, the fringe selections make sense as the S14 will provide the real testing ground,for the players not chosen, to claim a place in the WC squad.
The mistake we’re making is to think that the new caps have replaced more established contenders as prospects for the 2011 WC squad.
1 Nov 2009, 15:04 pm
#171 David: Yes…you are correct David….this is not about the next best Bok team really….a Bok B if you like…..
I reckon a couple of ‘dirttrackers’ may come home with enhanced reputations….
Keen to see what 15 will start 1 st test…not sure that they may not be a surprise or 2 there.
1 Nov 2009, 15:06 pm
#163 AndrewBK: So we cant say anything against someone just based on their past achievements?
I think his current selections stink. Alistair Hargreaves in my opinion is a good player but ahead of Sykes?? Is he just checking out possibles or is he grooming people he know can step up? Because in that case why doesnt he pick Jacques Lombaard for example? And where does Anton van Zyl who had a stonker of a Currie Cup stand then?
Chilliboy AND Bandhise Maku? Why in hell would you pick 3 hookers when 2 are non starters for their teams? Does PDV know something the Bulls management dont? Is PDV more sucessful than the Bulls have been this year? And where does that leave outstanding players like Adriaan Strauss and Tiaan Liebenberg? BTW I like Bandhise Make myself as a player but is he really better than Strauss and Liebenberg? I dont think so.
Heinke as a TH????? Why the hell would you do that when you have a rising star such as WP Nel who has been phenomenal this year. I am very glad Heinke is in the team but surely he would have provided us a nice different option at LH where we already have 2 players in the same mould (not great scrummagers but good in the loose).
Why pick Jannie du Plessis ahead of players such as WP Nel and Coenie Oosthuizen when you are converting Heinke into a TH? For the experience? Well I reckon WP Nel would put Jannie on his butt any day experience or not.
Davon Raubenheimer?? I reckon he did great this season but reallyy??? Is he better than Duane Vermeulen and Jean Deysel? OK so you want to check out new blood… so when are we going to see Jean Deysel take the step up he deserves? Come next Tri Nations it´ll be back to the old standard Juan Smith, Danie Rossouw, Schalk Burger bunch again… so what have we learnt? That Davon needs another few years to make the step up? We loose the opportunity to see players such as Deysel and Vermeulen in the cauldron and how they handle thats what.
Only selections I agree with in the forward pack are Heinke (but not at TH and I´m really not sure he´s ready for action after such a long layoff and absolutely no rugby) and Ashley Johnson – but in his case again … does he deserve the spot more than Willem Alberts? Also Dewaldt Potgieter who is everywhere.
Odwa Ndungane?????? I think we have enough new excellent talent coming through the ranks to give old Odwa a rest now. He´s a good workhorse but i´m afraid he´s no game breaker or class finisher. Why not blood Mapoe? What about the talents of Juries, Mvovo who I thought was very exciting this year, or Gio Aplon who has proved that his size doesnt matter and who has enough speed to seriously burn most players. Talk about game breaker and finisher. He has impressed me immensely and especially with his all round game. Gimme a break – Odwa Ndungane pfft.
Earl Rose??? Ahh what can you say. He just wont leave it alone. Where is he going to play? FH FB? We already have a player of weak confidence in the team in the form of Ruaan Pienaar. Do we really need another? Why not give Peter Grant hsi rightful opportunity as a backup to Morne Steyn. Why not blood someone with some talent such as Burton Francis? This is possibly the most pathetic selection of the lot.
Heini Adams?? Ja well no fine. He´s been great make no mistake, but we have cover in the form of Pienaar and Houghaard, so we can risk something more avant garde here. Why not Sarel Pretorius who though diminutive has proven he is a game breaker time and again. He has been the outstanding scrumhalf of the comp and yet he´s nowhere. Based on merit? Yeah right! Any poll of best Scrumhalf for CUrrie Cup 2009 would come up with the same result Sarel Pretorius.
Rickie´s axing is the only welcome non selection here. Wish he would do the same with Adi JAcobs
Meyer %&$ Bosman…. now really. Do we not have any other talent at centre? Meyer is average most days and makes more stuff ups than the Department of Home Affairs. If youre looking for a 12 why not play someone who was solid the whole Currie Cup like Barry Geel, or slot Francois Houghaard in there who in my opinion is an excellent prospect at centre.
With Steyn and de Villiers were a bit thin on cover for 12 and if it wasnt for injury I would even try Ebersohn there. If you want beef then why not Riaan Swanepoel.
Juan de Jongh and Francois Houghaard I think are excellent choices at least and possibly the best selection decisions of the lot. Houghaard reminds me of Quade Cooper from Oz and has some sublime stepping abilities – he´s wasted at scrumhalf.
Ditto Zane Kirchner – he is one of our better fullbacks and deserves more time there in a Bok setup.
And finally Riaan Viljoen … no doubt he deserves a special mention and has a bright future ahead but I think its a tad premature to have him in there ahead of the World Cup with excellent and overlook Stefan Terblanche at home. Terblanche shows no signs of letting up and he´s fitter than most. He deserves a place in the Bok squad for the World Cup instead of pissing about with Ruan Pienaar. Adn if we want to talk form fullback… then what happened to Joe Pietersen? Ok he´s small too, but he has an amazing kicking boot and game breaking abilities. He would be an assett should we loose Morne Steyn in a match…
Now how much of what I said above DOESNT make sense???
Special mentions shoudl also go out to COenie Oosthuizen, Wiaan du Preez, Wickus Blaauw, Derrick Kuun, Craig Burden, Deon Fourie, David de Villiers, Francois Louw, Franco vd Merwe, Frans Viljoen, Jano Vermaak (injured), Naas Olivier, Henno Mentz (injured), Tonderai Chavanga – who seems to now be completely forgotten as an option on wing, Louis Ludik (injured)
1 Nov 2009, 15:07 pm
#172 grant10: meant not a bok b team
1 Nov 2009, 15:08 pm
#171 David: I´m very much hoping this is coreect but I really think that way of thinking makes much more sense the other way around. Give your players you know are good a chance to play in the Bok setup and see hoe they go and see how your dirttrackers handle the Super 14 next year.
1 Nov 2009, 15:10 pm
Ol’ skop has been calling for John Smit’s head since 1967. The man has it in for him because he was old Jakey’s darling captain. Yawn.
1 Nov 2009, 15:15 pm
#175 Slumtown:
When you consider that both midweek matches will be against weakened sides that won’t be much stronger, if that, than our better CC sides, I can see the logic behind PdeVs thinking.
For me, theonly really signicant selection is that of Potgieter, who I reckon will go straight onto the bench for the main matches, in the absence of Juan.
1 Nov 2009, 15:17 pm
#177 David:
Unless, of course, he’s there as a 6 for the midweek matches.
1 Nov 2009, 15:17 pm
Some whacky left field selections and some noticeable ommissions (Mapoe chief amonst those – he’s really good), but overall, the core of the successful team is there, all but Steyn and De Villiers. There is undoubtedly some political pressure however, for Hoskins to deny this is insulting to the averge SA fans’ intelligence (or is it?).
I’m worried about Ireland and France away though, it’s been a while since we’ve beaten these teams away from home.
I reckon we’ll do just fine with our A team, and some of the newer lads will be around in 2011, so good to get them involved early.
1 Nov 2009, 15:17 pm
#173 Slumtown: u mad
1 Nov 2009, 15:24 pm
#179 wooden spoon:
I think Mapoe will get far more game time and experience in the 7s side than he would sitting on the bench for the Boks. As a wing it can only improve his running and support lines. I reckon allowing him to go that route is an inspired decision.
1 Nov 2009, 15:24 pm
#131 grant10: ye hes a talent i just dont know what hes done to warant this call up…well look at frans steyn so…j deysel grant is my fav non springbok player -ofc im biased ,used to rate potg but imo he a bit small -same height as deysel-allthough i think that he works so well alongside piere spies -kinda the fringe grunt work that we all wish spies would do -he gets his shorts dirty, bleeds abit- tough boy ;kinda evrything spies isnt -a bit like schalk burger but faster and carries the ball more efectivley
1 Nov 2009, 15:29 pm
#181 David: and let’s face it, Mapoe has only been around for 1 season. Perhaps a bit premature for a national call up, but I suspect its only a matter of time.
I suspect PDV is also looking to add to our extended squad strength with his other selections. The hard truth is that the Boks currently don’t have much fire power beyond the starting 15.
1 Nov 2009, 15:29 pm
a way to please politics and suporters-backline with habana pietersen de jongh murray kirchner -would be potent -mapoe jacobs guthro -and idealy januarie and chiliboy ish
1 Nov 2009, 15:32 pm
#182 80srovers: Deysel will get his chance….matter of time. My opinion is we may find the 2011 a bridge too far for a number of current boks.
1 Nov 2009, 15:36 pm
BREAKING NEWS….
Both bulls and Lions after Waylon Murray…seems he is lost to the Sharks….probably going to join D Muir at Lions.
Lions awaiting news on J Lombaard.
Willie Wepener by all accounts not on Lions hit list as Lions to announce star hooker sighning…
1 Nov 2009, 15:38 pm
Willa…kom praat hie boet…se vir ons oor BOD …asseblief.
1 Nov 2009, 15:38 pm
#183 wooden spoon:
Yes, he’s only 21 with a world junior championship under his belt and a world series 7s title.
I reckon he’ll replace Ndungane come the next 3N.
1 Nov 2009, 15:41 pm
#185 grant10: i think we should give the bulls players some rest -we need to preserve the likes of matfield and botha -du preez -then j smith -the rest of the team must play and settle combos -front row needs some game time (maybe get o du rant in here ) and backlines fine
1 Nov 2009, 15:43 pm
#186 grant10:
“Willie Wepener by all accounts not on Lions hit list as Lions to announce star hooker sighning…”
Yeah, must be my ex wife.
1 Nov 2009, 15:44 pm
#189 80srovers: ja…really believe a few top boks should of been left at home for this eoyt…..
In a way a blessing that J Smith out….i would have risked the losses and left at least FDP…BAKKIES…VM…J SMIT at home….risky but long term beneficail…..
1 Nov 2009, 15:45 pm
#190 David: LOL….
1 Nov 2009, 15:47 pm
#191 grant10: grant like the breaking news on brussouw ?/
brian van zyl confirmed there is no communication between brussow and the charks as he is comtracted to 2010
they are legally he said not allowed to negotiate with brussow
aint no breaking news mate , its nothing till a contract is signed
same goes for alberts or ludick , nothing is signed
1 Nov 2009, 15:49 pm
as for leaving out the capt of the boks ??/ lets just say joke of the day
people have short memories
john injured matfield capt boks got clobbered , need i say more
j smit is the glue that holds this bok team together
anyhows. enough said
1 Nov 2009, 15:49 pm
#191 grant10: yep we should have used this time to flex our muscles a bit in terms of depth -front row cheetahs backed with sykes and d devilliers -stegman deysel and vermulen -imo haha (maybe poti capt) albertsd in there tosome where-vermak pienaar de jong jacobs/murray mapoe pietersen and then maybe kirchner
1 Nov 2009, 15:50 pm
#193 sharks_lover: lets see…..
1 Nov 2009, 15:50 pm
rovers 80??
mark my words young lambie a huge star for the sharks in the future
1 Nov 2009, 15:51 pm
#196 grant10:
yup lets , till then ill not get excited 
1 Nov 2009, 15:52 pm
#194 sharks_lover: seems he is better at holding the boks together than the sharks….
Anyway…V Matfiel….with c cups and 2 x super 14 titles on his cv….could also captain the boks…..i reckon we undermine Matfield with these sort of comments…
1 Nov 2009, 15:53 pm
#197 sharks_lover: Now on that we agree 100%…That kid is a rising star!!!
1 Nov 2009, 15:53 pm
murray wont be leaving , watch this space
1 Nov 2009, 15:53 pm
#197 sharks_lover: definately -maybe just a bit small i sit in the same box as he does nad hes about 5,8 -but im realy impressed if we could put his player know how in guys like frans -but ya hes gona be huge -alot of my friends played with him at rovers and they say he is going to be a bok some day
1 Nov 2009, 15:56 pm
#199 grant10: grant its different thing for matfield to keep together a provincial team then a sa combined team , and dont try tell me its the same thing , its not
not too long ago we saw when smit was injured
matfield had the chance
the rest is history
dont compare the bulls to the boks mate , not the same thing
1 Nov 2009, 15:57 pm
rovers he is big enough trust me
he reminds me so much of hugh reece edwards , just not as big as hugh
1 Nov 2009, 15:58 pm
#203 sharks_lover: J Smit can captain Boks till 2030 for all i care…just not as a tighthead…
1 Nov 2009, 15:58 pm
like i told you before i too have met the cronje’s and lambie etc , i have no doubt lambie is a huge star in the making
1 Nov 2009, 15:59 pm
#204 sharks_lover: Yes….but more incisive on attack…..that youngster will be a star….is he playing super 14 next year???? I reckon he amd Ludick will be the premier 15 s ….
1 Nov 2009, 15:59 pm
#205 grant10: all i can say is he will be there lol
well till 2011 , thats where he will hang up them big boots
1 Nov 2009, 16:00 pm
#207 grant10: grant i am thinking we need a fast 13 , and to me lambie might just be the answer
he has all the attributes
1 Nov 2009, 16:00 pm
Apparently BOD wants R8M a season for Lions….insane i reckon.
1 Nov 2009, 16:00 pm
Guys, guys, guys,
Didn’t the great Jake White actually build this worldbeating team we now have around the juniors he had worked with earlier in his career? Why shouldn’t PdV be afforded the same opportunity?
Johnson, Chilliboy, Maku, Spies, Heinke, Rose, Raubenheimer, Kanko, Bekker and Hargeaves all played under him at Junior level at some or other time if I’m not mistaken and he is rewarding them by building the next echelon of Bok worldbeaters around them.
And yes, Brussouw and Morne Steyn weren’t in his starting line-up plans in the beginning of the year, but when they banged on the door hard enough he admitted his mistake and look where they are now. I can live with that, just as I can live with it that a guy like Dewald Potgieter has played himself into PdV’s plans. Old Ratel Brussouw is a lone voice in the jungle when it comes to condemning Pottie. Probably a case of sour grapes- who knows maybe he personally has been Pottie’s ***** a few times in his life or he has some family ties to the guys who unfortunately lost out.
Be that as it may- Pottie is the type of player who wins matches without even having to touch the ball. His ability to read and react to the game is uncanny and his greatest value, appart from his defence and linking ability is the way in which he complements and frees up other players in the team to play to their strengths. Afterall, rugby is a team game and it is not about the individual, which is why players like Kanko, Watson, Deysel and the like would never make my team. Their style of play speaks about them rather than the team, and I have a problem with that if it becomes excessive as in their case.
And then, in the final analysis, it is the coaches prerogative to decide on the gameplan and style of rugby he wants to play, which in turn implies that it should be his prerogative to be prescriptive to the selectors about the merits and type of player he requires for his squad to enable him to achieve his goals within his vision and the fact that gameplan.
So I guess what I’m saying is merit is subjective as well- from the perspective of the coach. Afterall, his **** is on the block. And maybe the fact that the Deysels of this world aren’t in the squad signals that they are less able or equiped to deliver on his expectations than those who have been selected, and not that they are bad or not talented.
And that view has merit of its own- maybe not in the view of the average rugby supporter, but certainly in the view of the coach. Who knows, maybe it is that MERIT which OH and PdV are referring to.
1 Nov 2009, 16:01 pm
#186 grant10: excellent news
Murray to replace Mossie. Maku to leave the bully boys where there are 4 other hookers and Lombaard our very own enforcer.
Lions are building nicely.
1 Nov 2009, 16:01 pm
#207 grant10: i have no doubt the sharks will pull him into the super 14 squad
i watched him closely on saturday , damn this kid is class
his decision making is classic
1 Nov 2009, 16:01 pm
#180 AndrewBK: very mature
1 Nov 2009, 16:02 pm
#209 sharks_lover: well you know me and playing okes out of position!!
No…SL…thnat oke is a born 15….maybe a 10….but yesterday he was absolutely fantastic in that u 21 final.
1 Nov 2009, 16:04 pm
#212 RedLion: mate murray is contacted till 2011
and he does not have a lions type contact , unless the sharks and lions come to an agreement re alberts and ludick , and then release murray
so maybe not totally impossible
1 Nov 2009, 16:06 pm
#212 RedLion:
I don’t know about building, looks more like trying to fill the gaps, to me. I wonder which position DM wants Murray for?
1 Nov 2009, 16:06 pm
#215 grant10: look he is 19 years old , the world is his oyster
i know he is a 15 and has played there since primary school
his positional play is fenominal
but i know he has the skills to help out at 13 if need be
, anyhows stefan is only there for the super 14 then he retires
1 Nov 2009, 16:06 pm
#216 sharks_lover:With technicalities contracts mean nothing these days
1 Nov 2009, 16:07 pm
#216 sharks_lover:
Even the Lions wouldn’t be that gullible…would they?
1 Nov 2009, 16:09 pm
#211 catleya: excellent post….agree re Dewalt 100%
But LW still my favorite!!
1 Nov 2009, 16:09 pm
#219 RedLion: uhm sharks dont have the loop hole technicallities the lions contracts have
but like i said one never knows with **** muit and the sharks , there might well be a gentlemans agreement where murray gets released to the lions for the services of ludick and alberts who want to and can leave because lions contracts are willy nilly worth lol
1 Nov 2009, 16:09 pm
Well after a bit more thought I think I know what the real problem is. We have an embarrasing amount of talent and by all accounts I reckon we could field at least 4 international squads at any given time…. the 3rd and 4th may not be up to beating the All Blacks but theyd certainly still beat the vast majority of the other top 10 interantional rugby teams.
1 Nov 2009, 16:09 pm
Sorry- strike “the fact that”.
1 Nov 2009, 16:10 pm
#220 David: eish boet with lions who knows
1 Nov 2009, 16:10 pm
#218 sharks_lover:
I sometimes wonder how much some of the bloggers here actually follow the game. A number of them are still punting Stefan for a Bok place after he’s announced his intention to retire and also that he wants less game time in the S14, next year.
1 Nov 2009, 16:10 pm
anyhows ill believe signing of players when they officialy announced
there is to many ifs and buts right now
1 Nov 2009, 16:11 pm
#218 sharks_lover:Lambie is a player i will watch closely….class…
1 Nov 2009, 16:12 pm
#226 David: not sure i cant speak for them ;wink:
but i agree stefan has announced his retirement , so to call him up now would be futile
joe peterson should have had a call up
well lemme put it this was , i am for profssionalism , so to me jdv and f steyn should be there
and bj
1 Nov 2009, 16:13 pm
#227 sharks_lover: Brussow will be a shark
Waylon Murray will be a lion….
I bet you some cold windhoeks??
1 Nov 2009, 16:14 pm
#228 grant10: as i am grant , i am yet to see him play a bad game , and **** i must have seen him in 15 games or more already
1 Nov 2009, 16:14 pm
the super 14 2011….watch those SA Franchises cook….all the saffas back…watch this space…
1 Nov 2009, 16:14 pm
#230 grant10: sure thing mate 1 doz lol
1 Nov 2009, 16:14 pm
I believe that Mapoe has been left out to buy time to retread him into a 12 centre. He will become a legend there- he has everything to succeed there. Power, speed, tenacity, defence, size, hands and feet, and above all, the elusive guile. At 14 he is just to far from the play.
1 Nov 2009, 16:17 pm
the sharks need another class center
even if they got alberts ludick and brussow,
well they also got mostert the big lions lock lol
but its center where there is an issue to me
murray has not had form for about 2 years
adi is nowhere near the player he was , wish he would find form
i posted a possible sharks squad recently as you saw grant and i took it we got the players as mentioned , and in that squad it quite clearly shows a problem at center
1 Nov 2009, 16:29 pm
The danger with leaving Mapoe out now is he goes off the boil. I believe in striking while the iron is hot not wait till after its cooled down. Mapoe in my assessment was perfectly ripe for big time exposure right now not later
1 Nov 2009, 16:33 pm
#221 grant10: We’ll agree to disagree on your last comment- LOL!
Jokes aside, Luke is a great player, and has always been, but we all have our favourites, so to each his own. I personally like Duane Vermeulen, and personally cant wait for the day the Boks play Brussouw at 6, Vermeulen at 7 and Dewald at 8. He is the only complete 8 in SA, and is being utilized out of position due to his youth and the death of talent at the Bulls. Be that as it may, he is so highly versatile and talented that he can play international rugby at 6, 7 & 8 any day, which is brilliant for the Boks.
I always say, if you want to know how good a guy is, as the okes who play against him. I wish Ratel Brussouw would do that!
1 Nov 2009, 16:38 pm
#236 skopskiet:
I wouldn’t consider 2 games against a depleted Sarries and Tigers side the big time, exactly. The Springbok 7s isn’t to be sneezed at either, especially as it’ll be an olympic sport in 6 years, only 1 year after the 2015 WC.
1 Nov 2009, 16:42 pm
#235 sharks_lover:
I reckon one of the reasons for Murrays loss of form is that when he played 13 he had Barritt at 12 to set him up.
Why not, as I’ve posted before, play Dumond at 10 with Hernandez 12. It’ll also help Dumond to develop further with Hernandez outside him.
1 Nov 2009, 16:42 pm
death = dearth
1 Nov 2009, 16:43 pm
as = ask
Hell, my eye-hand coordination has gone to ****.
1 Nov 2009, 16:52 pm
Daar is hy
S14 …. Done and Dusted
CC…… Done and dusted
and then sad fcuks like skopskiet and johnnymain wants to blame the ref. Same old excuse as always.
Rather go look at why you support such a kak team
If the CC is played from today the standings will be
Bulls
Cheetahs
Sharks
Lions
en dan die Lulettes
Go Bulle!!!!!!!!
1 Nov 2009, 16:53 pm
Holy ****!!!
I am so sick of the Sharks fans with their “shopping lists”
Does the Bulls have world class players from 1 to 15?
No they don’t, yet they won the S14 and CC
How does that work then??
SHARKS MANAGEMENT = DUMB MONEY
1 Nov 2009, 16:54 pm
#199 grant10:
No way, G10. Please don’t even think along those lines. Matfield’s not an international captain.
What’s this now with JS having to play from the bench? The captain must lead from the front not from a bench. I believe that JS has enough integrity to inform PdV if he feels that he is not up for the task at TH. He may not be the best but liewe hemel, our second choice is Jannie Dup! WP Nel needs at least one more season of CC and Super rugby before being considered.I think he will be great from 2011 onwards. So for now, let us just accept that JS will be our TH and captain till 2011.
1 Nov 2009, 16:56 pm
#211 catleya:
Excellent post. Really well put.Hopefully some will take heed of your comments and stop whining.
1 Nov 2009, 17:00 pm
#233 sharks_lover: done!!
1 Nov 2009, 17:01 pm
#235 sharks_lover: Ja,,,, just leave Juan De jongh alone!!!
1 Nov 2009, 17:03 pm
#237 catleya: Ratel Brussow is a Sharks fan like i have never seen before!! If it aint a shark it dont count!!
Dewalt is capt post 2011….yesterday he again showed his class and versatality.
Woulsd love to see him at 8…
1 Nov 2009, 17:05 pm
#244 nama1: i will try and accept it…but fark its not easy for me…i always thought a 3 needed 1st and foremost to be able to scrum!!
1 Nov 2009, 17:40 pm
#249 grant10:
Hi Grant,
John might make it till 2011, but we wont win the world cup with a prop that cannot scrum.
Unfortunately Peter has already made up his mind, so John will probably play and NZ will become champs in their own country.
That is how I see it.
1 Nov 2009, 17:55 pm
#250 Robzim: ‘NZ will become champs in their own country’
doubt it, lot of contenders in 2011, the French team will be maturing nicely
1 Nov 2009, 18:01 pm
#250 Robzim: Hi Rob
Cant see Smit seeing it through….i just for the life of me cant see another 2 years of retreating boik scrums….Heinke…Buys…WP NEL…CJ and Bj will bring the heat….
If we go in prepared to come off 2 nd best boks will be beaten.
1 Nov 2009, 18:02 pm
BH…How is Cj….BJ …doing over there???
1 Nov 2009, 18:05 pm
Robzim….whats your take on the squad??
Did you watch the final or grab a wave yesterday?
1 Nov 2009, 18:09 pm
Rob….check out that Coenie Oosthuisen oke from cheetahs ….bloody hell…,that okes a mmean monster tighthead/Loosehead….wouldnt mind him getting an opportunity down the line.
1 Nov 2009, 18:10 pm
#251 Big Hit:
Sure, the French will be in with a chance, they always are, but as u know they are very inconsistent – on their day they can beat anyone but the next week they might lose against Scotland or Somoa. That is why I doubt whether they will ever win the wc.
I think SA might have peaked too soon while the AB’s and Aussies are both building up quite nicely.
By picking fourth and fifth choice players as back ups for the end of the year tour the selectors are also not doing us any favours.
1 Nov 2009, 18:15 pm
#254 grant10:
I watched the game. The Cheetahs lost it within the first 20 minutes – after that they were only playing catch up.
I think it is a terrible squad – some of the choices just do not make sense.
We all know that picking a rugby team is not an exact science – we all have our favourites and we are all biased to a certain degree – but some of the choices are just plain ridiculous imo.
I mean Chilli AND Maku ahead of Strauss or Liebenbergh?
Who is Hargreave?
To me it just does not make sense.
1 Nov 2009, 18:17 pm
#256 Robzim: Yes – beware the French. The ‘new breed’ have managed to shake the tag of ‘unpredictable’ probably as a result of proffesionalism.
France will be in the semi-finals of the next world cup. Guarenteed.
However ….
Keep an eye on
1.) Welsh
2.) Australians.
Both have some superb talent and are building depth that will cause a few surprises next world cup.
1 Nov 2009, 18:18 pm
#255 grant10: Yes – you are right he is imposing. He is no Mujati or Hayman but he is talented.
1 Nov 2009, 18:20 pm
#257 Robzim: I sensed your ‘outrage’….
At the end of the day i am pleased for some but of course it is not neccessary a 2nd bok team ….for sure there are better players being left at home…
Transformation is a driver….that much needs to be accepted as part and parcel of the reality. I think your offence is more at Hoskins saying merit is theonly driver….clearly it is not so.
ADriaan Strauss was superb yesterday…..
The Heinke move is a clear indication that PDV believes there is a dearth of 3 s in SA….WP Nel will be dissapointed.
1 Nov 2009, 18:22 pm
#257 Robzim: Chilli is a rare talent – he deserves his place. He has leadership skills like that of Sean Fitzpatrick.
Maku is still to earn his stripes – a good future prospect. But Strauss deserved a tour.
1 Nov 2009, 18:22 pm
#259 rugbygenius: I know little of him except Os rates him highly…..after seeing him come on yesterday i understand why!
1 Nov 2009, 18:22 pm
#258 rugbygenius:
Yip, I forgot about the Welsh, they are indeed picking up nicely and also have an excellent coaching staff.
The 6 nations next year will give us a good indication.
1 Nov 2009, 18:23 pm
#258 rugbygenius: keep your eye on England bud, all these injuries are allowing us to build depth, we’ll be a force in 2011.
1 Nov 2009, 18:24 pm
Great opportunity for the dirttrackers to go play some attractive rugby and make a name for themselves….
Wonder when the team for Fri nite game will be announced??
1 Nov 2009, 18:25 pm
#264 Big Hit: any news on CJ…BJ…?
How are they doing BH??
1 Nov 2009, 18:27 pm
#260 grant10:
Yip, Hoskins pissed me off with his bullsh@t lying talk.
If I was Duanne for example I would have gone overseas without even having second thoughts.
Hopefully these guys are more patriotic then me.
1 Nov 2009, 18:27 pm
#263 Robzim:
Yes – can you imagine Lee Byrne, Jamie Roberts, Mike Phillips, Alun Wyn Jones etc on the rampage AND in their prime ? They could destroy anything put in front of them . Even the Bokke or All Blacks.
I see the Welsh easily scooping the 6 nations. Only Ireland can match them from the home nations. The English seem to think the return of Wilko will be a major turning point for them.
1 Nov 2009, 18:29 pm
#266 grant10: Van der Linde started at tighthead for Leinster, they hammered Cardiff. I only caught the last 5 minutes of Munster/Ulster but the Ulster scrum looked surprisingly good against what is essentially the Irish pack. JDV scored again.
1 Nov 2009, 18:29 pm
#264 Big Hit: Potentially. But as it stands, a 1/4 final place is probably what Johnson and Co should be aiming for .
1 Nov 2009, 18:29 pm
#267 Robzim: LOL…well i hope so Rob…Stormers need all the help they can get!!
1 Nov 2009, 18:30 pm
#268 rugbygenius: lol come now, Wales won’t win the 6N. It will be France or England, check the way the fixtures fall. Wales have a lot of talent but they lack power in the forwards, bit like NZ this year.
1 Nov 2009, 18:31 pm
#269 Big Hit: Thanks BH….i owe you a couple of cold beers you ever in Cape Town for the updates….both will be back prior to 2011…BJ confirmed as much….
1 Nov 2009, 18:32 pm
Bokke going to win in 2011, bank on it.
i knew they;d win in 95 and 07, mind u i thought they;d do it in 99 too, but did;nt count on the great honiball being dropped.
1 Nov 2009, 18:33 pm
#272 Big Hit: France are definite contenders. Man for Man Wales are a better team in my opinion. Name one English player who is better than their Welsh counterpart ? Vickery is the only one I can think of .
1 Nov 2009, 18:34 pm
#274 cab: yeah…i also reckon we will win it in 2011……we all know kiwis will choke , especially with the added home pressure….
1 Nov 2009, 18:34 pm
#270 rugbygenius: that’s what they said last time
We’re the 3rd most successful World Cup team and there will be fewer injuries with no club rugby during the summer before the RWC.
1 Nov 2009, 18:34 pm
#276 grant10: They are incapable of choking a home . All Blacks HAVE to win this one.
1 Nov 2009, 18:35 pm
Are the poms gonna be able to field a half decent team….seems every day they lose a player to injury….bizarre!
1 Nov 2009, 18:35 pm
#260 grant10: no i’m not a driver! Can you believe this guy? He says i’m a golf club?
1 Nov 2009, 18:36 pm
#278 rugbygenius: no chance…kiwis will choke as night follows day….will never handle the heat….
Boks will be a far better outfit in 2011 as 2007….
1 Nov 2009, 18:37 pm
#276 grant10:
kiwis wont choke, they be in final with boks if in the other segment, but boks be too settled. i’m pretty certain we looking good, just gotta find a new 4 for test level to back-up bakkies – not sure how he is going to hold out the next 2 years, already struggling to get up from rucks.
1 Nov 2009, 18:37 pm
#267 Robzim:
Check my post 171 for my take on the selections and tell me what you think.
I think we’re reading far too much into the fact that certain players were excluded.
1 Nov 2009, 18:37 pm
#275 rugbygenius: There are quite a few when everyone is fit, but look out for a few new names like Matt Banahan, Courtney Lawes, Shane Geraghty and many more to come back from injury. Keeping our guys fit is the biggest challenge.
1 Nov 2009, 18:38 pm
#268 rugbygenius:
Yeah well if Jonny can stay fit he might make a difference – brilliant player.
I doubt whether he will be enough though. They do not seem to have enough quality and depth to back him up.
Last time they won the wc they had at least 4-5 world class players – at the moment they are not a long way from that?
1 Nov 2009, 18:38 pm
#280 Transformation: LOL…how you my man?
Man u doing the business again!!
1 Nov 2009, 18:40 pm
#282 cab: they will choke in final….no…not true….they will get beaten by Boks in semis…i think thats the draw!
1 Nov 2009, 18:40 pm
#282 cab: Bakkies looking MOEG!!!!
1 Nov 2009, 18:41 pm
I wont easy bet against a team with Jonny Wilkinson in it….
He is the real deal ….class.
1 Nov 2009, 18:44 pm
#287 grant10:
oh ****, semis, i dunno if that is a big enough game for them to choke, that is probably the ideal draw, cos they wont be expecting to win v Boks, whereas in the final the expectation will be overwhelming.
Bokke going to peak next year, but will have enough to carry it thru with the senior players being young enough to do an england 2003 and sneak in. the big difference is brussow and a worldclass flyhalf in morne steyn, who is the new naas botha, machine=like BMT.
oh yes, its ours, i will start composing songs already…
1 Nov 2009, 18:46 pm
#286 grant10: i’m doing great chap, how are you doing? I saw that, berbatov scoring some top drawer goals, damn!
Chelsea running rampant, ‘Pool back to “Losing Ways”…
I see pdv’s squad has ruffled some feathers…can’t wait for Keo’s ramblings tomorrow in the Business Day…
1 Nov 2009, 18:46 pm
#283 David:
David, if that is what they want to do and if that is the message that they have communicated to the “obvious real second choice” players I have no problem with it.
Unfortunately Hoskins came up with his statement that they have only selected on merit.
It is confusing to say the least and if I was a player like Vermeulen or Strauss I would have gone for the Euro’s.
1 Nov 2009, 18:47 pm
#290 cab: Easy peasy….kiwis will be petrified of us…..
But we mustnt play our okes into the ground…my big concern is 2009 has been a killer season ….best ever i reckon….but the toll it has taken on some of our veterans may come back to haunt us…..
1 Nov 2009, 18:50 pm
#291 Transformation:Ja…but PDV has delivered more in 2009 than could of ever been expected….so its in PDV we trust!
Yes…L Pool are such a strange team ….so inconsistent…..but always seem to raise it ahainst Man u….watched some of the spurs Arsenal game yesterday….now that Fabregas is very special….
1 Nov 2009, 18:51 pm
#292 Robzim: I do hope the communication with the players is 1 st class…or else frustration will inevitavly result in Euro and even Aussie deflections….
1 Nov 2009, 18:53 pm
#293 grant10:
LoL, we cannot denied the kiwi’s of the ultimate glory for ever.
My guess is that they will take it in 2011.
We will be moeg, depending on an ageing captain and will probably be home after the semi’s with lots of excuses.
And Pieter will then be fired and become a gospel singer in the Paarl.
1 Nov 2009, 18:58 pm
#296 Robzim: LOL….no Rob….those Kiwis just kak themselves when the heats on….at home it will be 10 times worse….
I am concerned at the aging nature of the pack though….some okes look out on there feet….will really have to nurse the J Smiths , Bakkies..J Smit and V Matfield in particular….putting them through this eoyt is a major ask….
1 Nov 2009, 19:02 pm
#297 grant10:
Rest/rotate the buggers during the S14 and CC, never at the expense of the Boks !!, still plenty of time for them to be well rested come 2011 !!
1 Nov 2009, 19:02 pm
#297 grant10:
LoL, John should not be nursed, he should be fired before he cause any further damage to an already dodge scrum.
I am taking my unfit body for a run now.
If the wind does not blow me away we can discuss the issue a bit later.
See u.
1 Nov 2009, 19:10 pm
#299 Robzim: cheers boet…
#298 justrugby: Ja…problem is the franchises just as bad!!
1 Nov 2009, 19:12 pm
#300 grant10:
Tough calls re the bigger picture will need to be made !!
1 Nov 2009, 19:15 pm
#298 justrugby: Hear hear!!
Select a full strength team for every test and blow away the opposition. Build a winning character.
And then let the guys only play 50% of the S14 matches and perhaps no CC matches.
End of story.
1 Nov 2009, 19:19 pm
#302 Boerboel:
Agree Boerboel, these are the decisions that have to be made to keep the Boks the No1 side in world rugby !!!
History has shown that common sense does not always prevail…….let’s learn from history and not repeat it !!!
1 Nov 2009, 19:19 pm
#294 grant10: Cesc is magical, i enjoy watching him play, i wish the arsenal cats would just give the ball to all the time, he is a genius!
1 Nov 2009, 19:21 pm
#301 justrugby: yes….see you at about 10 am tomorrow boet?
Will confirm in the morning?
1 Nov 2009, 19:22 pm
#302 Boerboel: HI Boerboel….how is the leg??
Rather rest them in the CC…
That super 14 is like the Holy Grail…
1 Nov 2009, 19:23 pm
#305 grant10:
Cool !!
1 Nov 2009, 19:23 pm
How disappointing.
Jannie Poep vs WP Nel (Heinke retreaded? Why?)
Earl Rose vs Lionel Mapoe (No Burton Francis?)
Maku vs Liebenberg & Strauss
Hargreaves?
No Peter Grant.
One could go on.
1 Nov 2009, 19:24 pm
#304 Transformation: Ja….that oke…Messi…Ronaldo….priviliege to watch them…geniuses at work.
1 Nov 2009, 19:24 pm
#306 grant10:
But in the year prior to WC……takes back seat big time ….imho !!!
1 Nov 2009, 19:25 pm
#308 SodaJoe: Lions being messed around now….see they talking about moving Buys to hooker to accomodate Heinke at 3…..
This has a knock on effect…and all because of accomodation selection.
1 Nov 2009, 19:26 pm
#310 justrugby: absolutely….then its all about Bill…
1 Nov 2009, 19:29 pm
#310 justrugby:
In fact if money was mot the driving force I would like to see the S14 alteranted with the 3N’s, ie one year S14, next year 3N’s (or 4N’s), to have both in same year plus Cc is what is killing the players !!
1 Nov 2009, 19:29 pm
#311 grant10: Ridiculous.
Buys Maku Heinke. That would be a terrifying front row.
What really irritates me is the lying, not even obfuscation. They make themselves look stupid.
Maku has more potential than Chili, but needs to play. At least Burton Francis has the balls to put his hand up to say I am good enough to be first choice in the S14. Unlike Heini Adams or Chiliboy.
1 Nov 2009, 19:30 pm
#313 justrugby: The are playing too much rugby. For me the bigger issue is the November tours vs S14 & CC.
1 Nov 2009, 19:31 pm
#313 justrugby: ja…great idea that!!
1 Nov 2009, 19:32 pm
#314 SodaJoe: erxactly…pis ses me off…anyway…till later gents….
1 Nov 2009, 19:33 pm
The Australian s14 rules need to be more flexible to take in South Africans, Argentinians, Georgians, Islanders, etc.
Kockott
Vermulen
Alberts
Liebenberg
Sykes
WP Nel
Wian du Preez
Coenie Ooosthuizen
Joe Pietersen
If I was these guys I would get on a plane. They are all international standard.
2 years to qualify for Aussie citizenship.
1 Nov 2009, 19:33 pm
#302 Boerboel: Agree always play our best for the Boks.
Think we should in the S14 too. That is where we are building our strength from.
Bok players in the S14 should be rested for the CC.
1 Nov 2009, 19:37 pm
#315 SodaJoe:
The Nov tours are important from a brand perspective……unless it’s a grand slam it usually only 3 games and the travel schedule is not that hectic……the S14 and 3N”s are killers with the intesity plus the travel……having said that, money dictates !!
1 Nov 2009, 19:37 pm
Victor 32
John Smit 31
Bakkies 30
CJ 29
Juan Smit 28
Gurthro 28
JdV 28
FdP 27
Schalk 26
Habana 26
Jacques Fourie 26
Bismarck 25
Morne Steyn 25
Kirchener 25
Heinke 24
Spies 24
Joe Pietersen 24
Brussouw 23
JP 23
Frans 22
Hougaard 21
De Jong 21
Mapoe 21
young uncapped props:
WP Nel 23 (112 kg)
Kevin Buys 23 (120 kg)
Wickus Blaauw 23 (125 kg)
Coenie Oosthuizen 21 (126kg)
Thats a young squad still with a very good balance of ages.
1 Nov 2009, 19:39 pm
France will be there at Wc 2011 with Nz. We be fortunate to get past semi’s. If we go to final again will be a huge achievement with a bunch of overused over traded jaded jockeys jostling for position. I reckon this time France will get to finals, they’re due a big one. In fact they should have been in 95 final because Bevan disallowed the Benazzi try in the rain under the posts in the semi’s. They were robbed and we got the spoils instead.
1 Nov 2009, 19:39 pm
#319 Puma: I disagree, look at the players who come through through the testing ground of the last rounds of CC.
November tours should be like what NH do to us in June – C teams. Rest the big guns then.
Great game yesterday.
Our talent is now so good we could win the WC again. But we are doos’.
WP Nel is by far the best tight head in the country.
1 Nov 2009, 19:41 pm
#306 grant10: Hi Grant, leg is almost out of the brace now, now the op is on the horizon!
1 Nov 2009, 19:41 pm
#321 cab: There are a lot of permutations that could be picked on merit that would be better than what was chosen, and still fulfill transformation AMBITIONS.
1 Nov 2009, 19:42 pm
Naand manne, hoop dit gan goed.
1 Nov 2009, 19:42 pm
#320 justrugby: Why boet they do it to us in June. In their national jerseys. England is the worst.
Rest the guys.
Our C team is talented enough to win.
1 Nov 2009, 19:43 pm
#326 WilladieLeeu: Hello boet. Still irritated.
1 Nov 2009, 19:45 pm
#322 skopskiet: They will be there.
2011 is a way to go. The Big guns will all have a good shout: NZ, SA, Aus, France, Ireland, Wales, England.
The ones who will drop down will be Argentina. There golden age needs to be resuscitated.
1 Nov 2009, 19:45 pm
hoop die been herstel goed boerboel
1 Nov 2009, 19:46 pm
#328 SodaJoe:
With what Soda?
1 Nov 2009, 19:46 pm
#327 SodaJoe:
Lol…..I want to hold on to that No1 spot !!!
1 Nov 2009, 19:47 pm
#330 skopskiet: Thanks Skop
1 Nov 2009, 19:49 pm
#331 WilladieLeeu: 2 things – some of the Bok team selections, but more the blatant lying about the selections.
I am really disappointed for soem of these young men, who put everything on the line, give everything to have a shot at playing for the Springboks, and then get shafted.
1 Nov 2009, 19:51 pm
#332 justrugby: Lets just win 3N and World Cup then worry about #1.
Our C team should play in June & November with a few B team okes.
1 Nov 2009, 19:52 pm
#324 Boerboel: Boerie Roll, what’s up with your leg?
1 Nov 2009, 19:53 pm
#325 SodaJoe:
ja there are, but still perhaps the wee maestro conjuring?
#326 WilladieLeeu:
lol, naand willa.
1 Nov 2009, 19:53 pm
#336 SodaJoe: I played rugby with my grandson and broke the fibbia! Done the ligaments as well. Damn, I’m not 25 anymore!
1 Nov 2009, 19:57 pm
France tend to play equally as good away as they do at home. They always been good on the road. Took Nz to the wire in 87 Wc, have beaten Nz and Sa away a few times. Cleaned us up in 65 I think it was in Springs Pam Brink Stadium I was there my first test match live. And cleaned up Jakes team 3 times with a draw. Jake never beat France once. They might be temperamental but when on song like that 99 semi when they ran Nz ragged from behind second half they are something else once the belief kicks in.
1 Nov 2009, 19:57 pm
#338 Boerboel:
were you trying the crashball Boerboel?
1 Nov 2009, 19:58 pm
#334 SodaJoe:
If these guys are our futute when our A team retires….were screwed.
You know SARU, they think the SA rugby public are total idiots.
1 Nov 2009, 19:58 pm
#334 SodaJoe:
As I said to Robzim, read my post 171 for my take on the reasons behind those selections.
BTW, it’s a 3 year residency period in Oz, not two, and the current ARU rules don’t allow for that many foreign players in the S14. 1 marquee (international) and 1 development player, or 2 development players if no marquee. They must also be approved by the ARU. Most of the players mentioned would be too old to qualify.
1 Nov 2009, 19:59 pm
#337 cab: Cab there are good guys in that squad. Make no mistake.
But I really resent the destroying of a young man’s dreams for the wrong reasons.
WP Nel – breaks my heart. No reason for Jannie Poep to be in that team.
One can go on, but it’s all been said already.
1 Nov 2009, 19:59 pm
#337 cab:
Hallo Cab, hoe voel dit om n Leeu te wees op hierdie great Sondag-aand? Nou weet n ander span ook hoe dit voel om al die trofees moontlik in een jaar te wen.
1 Nov 2009, 20:01 pm
#342 David: Dave, as I said- they should change their rules, especially if Melbourne get the 15′th team.
But hey – I suppose it may be an illustrative point.
1 Nov 2009, 20:02 pm
#340 cab: No, tried to kick a ball 10 million miles!
I’m out for a while, see you guys later, maybe..
1 Nov 2009, 20:03 pm
#343 SodaJoe:
deysel, vermeulen, alberts, potgieter – also all under 25
there is too much depth coming thru, its a south african era coming and its only going to get stronger with more black talent coming thru. Bokke will be back at No1 permanently.
1 Nov 2009, 20:03 pm
#340 cab: I think he had on his Bakkies Botha #4 Bok jersey and “hit” a ruck. But the ruck hit back.
1 Nov 2009, 20:03 pm
#346 Boerboel:
ha ha … night
1 Nov 2009, 20:05 pm
#344 WilladieLeeu:
hehe, ja bulle het skoongemaak, nou moet ons hulle bietjie les leer.
het jy gehoor dat miskien kom justin harrison na leeus?
1 Nov 2009, 20:06 pm
#347 cab: Cab we could hold the #1 spot for years. We have more players than anyone else, of whatever colour. I don’t care. Just for goodness sake pick the best guys.
I worry about dof selections. Dof coaching (I am not including PdV – he’s proved himself to me, but at CC and S14).
1 Nov 2009, 20:06 pm
if he don’t start driving the transformation bus home then when? Too much lip service been spouted around bringing in more players into the main stream a whole lot of window dressing but no real change taken place really since Errol Tobias. Its now or never and may as well be now than too close to 2011. My only real gripe is front row and Mapoe being overlooked for Odwa or Nokwe and/or Rose. The problem there being J. Smit stuffing up the natural progress of younger talent because of his talisman status and Rose being Pdv’s nephew in law. Two blind spots that can screw up a whole team’s potential.
1 Nov 2009, 20:08 pm
#344 WilladieLeeu: Willa cheer me up with soem good news re Lions – new players, etc.
Please don’t tell me we are going to retread Heinek too (although it must be said that I have suggested this in the past, but having seen WP Nel & Buys, I wish Snor did not read my posts so deeply).
1 Nov 2009, 20:09 pm
#350 cab:
Genuine, laaste wat ek gehoor het is dat dit Boland was wat met hom onderhandel het.
Manie homself het dit laasweek ontken dat ons met hom praat.
1 Nov 2009, 20:11 pm
#354 WilladieLeeu:
Boland? bladdy hell.
should be good to see the lions frontrow in s14 with heinke and buys. we shall have to see what happens to alberts?
nag, moet iets doen hierdie kant.
1 Nov 2009, 20:11 pm
#352 skopskiet: Skop I tghink we are making lots of progress and quickly.
Burton Francis is 3x the player Earl Rose will ever be.
1 Nov 2009, 20:11 pm
sien jou later bb
1 Nov 2009, 20:15 pm
#353 SodaJoe:
No news on Lombaard yet. Deon van Rensburg is joining the Lions next week-end. Murray is likely to join us.
Were waiting for confirmation on a hooker. International.
Lions are going to put Buys at hooker on a trial basis to accomodate Heinke’s move to TH. He doesn’t have a problem with it. Front row will look like this:
Wayne Swart, Kevin, Heinke.
BOD wants 8 mil, weve so far offered him 5.6. Negotiations still ongoing.
1 Nov 2009, 20:16 pm
I haven’t seen Burton Francis do anything since all the hype about him. He’s a very conservative Nasty Booter type of player. Rose is totally unpredictable and sometimes outright diabolical but at least he can sometimes get a move happening with some creativity. Francis I haven’t seen a single iota of creativity from that player yet and not even great place kicking either. So dunno how much better he is than Rose if at all.
1 Nov 2009, 20:20 pm
#358 WilladieLeeu: Buys is way to big for hooker imo. But it would be scary as fk to see that oke in the middle of the line! I think most front rows would wet themselves.
I don’t think BOD will come, how will he fit in 6N? But would be great.
Murray is a good player, needs a Barret style guy to bring the best out of him, Doppies can do that. Vermaak, Francis, Doppies, Murray is a pretty good back line.
1 Nov 2009, 20:21 pm
Ok guys see you all through the window.
1 Nov 2009, 20:23 pm
#323 SodaJoe: Joe burnout if we don’t rest players especially in a wc year. Need to rest the players that will make the Boks squad or no Tri-Nations in a world cup year.
Always play your best players for the Boks. Don’t hand out the green and gold like it is marbles. Must be earned.
Showing my age here. Only the best ever got selected when I grew up. Always the best team was sent out to play for the Boks. We a proud rugby nations.
Poms can send us their kak players in June and the rest of the NH and they will stay kak then.
That is why ABs/Os/SA way ahead of them. We alays play our best against each other. Except 2007 in world cup year Jake rested players.
1 Nov 2009, 20:24 pm
#360 SodaJoe:
That would be a frightening front row.
I’d play Boshoff at FH. That kid has the best step I’ve seen in a while.
My Super 14 team:
Wayne Swart
Kevin Buys
Heinke
Lombaard
Franco
Baywatch
Minnie
Mokuena (C)
Jano (VC)
Ruan Boshoff
Jackson
Doppies
BOD/Murray
Chavanga
Hollenbach
1 Nov 2009, 20:24 pm
meant always there. not alays..
1 Nov 2009, 20:25 pm
#361 SodaJoe: Cheers Joe, Just missed you there. Posted back to you a bit late.
1 Nov 2009, 20:27 pm
I can see some long term planning taking place for post WC. Converting Heinke to TH must be Golds idea, and it makes sense to have a prop able to play both 1 and 3 in the squad. That’s CJs strength. With Buys, a converted flank also able to play 3 and 2, it gives us an awesome depth and flexibility in the 22 man squad. Players like WP, Wian, Coenie and Blauw can fill the specialist spots. Just think about it. Bissie will be in great demand after the WC, as will a number of the players who don’t retire, and with no B&IL tour to keep them until the following WC we’ll probably lose them for a couple of years.
1 Nov 2009, 20:31 pm
pdv is just being consistent & using players that he knows…this is his 2006 U21 team that he took to france
SA U21: 15 Scott Spedding, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Waylon Murray, 12 Brad Barritt, 11 Marius Delport, 10 Isma-eel Dollie, 9 Jano Vermaak, 8 Pierre Spies, 7 Hilton Lobberts, 6 Keegan Daniel, 5 Wilheim Steenkamp, 4 Nikolai Blignaut, 3 Sangoni Mxoli, 2 Chiliboy Ralepele, 1 Heinke van der Merwe.
Subs: 16 Bandise Maku, 17 Werner Kruger, 18, Alistair Hargreaves, 19 Adriaan Strauss, 20 Warren Malgas, 21 Morgan Newman, 22 Cedric Mkhize
1 Nov 2009, 20:36 pm
#288
Few guys would be aware of this but Bakkies and Pottie were still down with flu on Friday. Cudos to them for being there to do their bit come matchtime.
1 Nov 2009, 20:36 pm
I get the impression that Pdv and co are less concerned with winning all the eoyt games at the cost of development and they looking to expand some options. Only problem is they possibly barking up the wrong tree with a few choices. The sideline of Mapoe definitely being one and the blindness around tight head. Hopefully Heinke makes all the difference, if not its going to be a long tour.
1 Nov 2009, 20:41 pm
Earl Rose ????
What the ???????
1 Nov 2009, 20:42 pm
Van der Westhuizen dropped by Supersport? probably old news to you guys but there’s an article in the Telegraph today about it.
1 Nov 2009, 20:47 pm
#369 skopskiet:
He still wants to win the tests Skop, as he picked all the top guys, although some of them are in serious need for a break and should have been given a rest.
Many of his back up players however are not the real second best as he was forced to please his masters.
So, imo he is trying to please everyone at the same time and that is where he is going to come up short – if not now, then next year or at the 2011 wc.
Opportunity lost, imo.
1 Nov 2009, 20:53 pm
i wonder if any surprises in the bok shadow test team ….tomorrow all will be revealed as the dirttracker 22 flys out Tues…..will be interesting to see who nails down the 15….12 and 7 spot.
1 Nov 2009, 20:55 pm
15…Kirchner or Ruan?
12 W O or Adi J
7 Schalk or Dewalt Potgieter???????
1 Nov 2009, 20:57 pm
#374 grant10: ruan
wo
schalk
1 Nov 2009, 21:02 pm
i would go…Zane….WO and Dewalt…
1 Nov 2009, 21:02 pm
#372 Robzim: hi rob…someone on a music blog was raving about this song, i just want to find out what your opinion is…
h.t.t.p://www.limelinx.com/files/444f6fdfc55f27266eb596a3ec915392
1 Nov 2009, 21:05 pm
i see B O Driscoll not going to Lions….Leinster said no.And too costly.
Also Griquas lock Lombard cant get out of contract….so no to the lions.
Now they onto Waylon Murray as a 13….and still looking for lock and hooker…
1 Nov 2009, 21:05 pm
#372 Robzim:
Which backup players for the main squad are you referring to? The squad for the internationals is the same as the 3N one, except for JdeV and Frans.
1 Nov 2009, 21:09 pm
#378 grant10: they should get a hooker from capt town , every street corner has one
1 Nov 2009, 21:10 pm
#380 sharks_lover: LOL
1 Nov 2009, 21:13 pm
#366 David:
Exactly. Players like JS, VM, Bakkies and Danie will probably retire after the WC while players like Habana, Du Preez,
J. Fourie, Bismarck, WO and even JPP will look to play out their careers in Europe. That will leave the incoming coach with the task of rebuilding a Bok squad for 2015.
The new cach, if not PdV, will have to build from scratch if that happens, It is therefore important that PdV starts the process to make things easier.
1 Nov 2009, 21:25 pm
Rob, Last time I saw him interviewed before the squad was announced he hinted at our poor record against France and Ireland away and I got a hint then already that he’s going to go with less all out non compromise as we did in the Lions tour or 3N. He’s still going with the intention to win but that the blooding of some new faces more important on his agenda.
I’m not holding anything against him for selecting Viljoen, Maku, Raubenheimer, Johnson, or Adams. Though I am holding it against him for not taking Mapoe for Rose Nokwe or Ndungane, and for taking Kanko Roussouw and Jannie Dup instead of Vermeulen, Alberts and WP Nel. Also for taking Bosman ahead of Le Grange or Grant. But then its the coaches prerogative to pick and chose how he likes and take the consequences of his choices.
1 Nov 2009, 21:27 pm
#373 grant10:
Test team:Kirchner, JPP, J. Fourie, Adi, Habana, M. Steyn, FdP, Spies, Burger, HB, VM, Bakkies, JS (c), Bismarck, Beast.
Midweek team: Pienaar, Odwa, WO, De Jongh, Nokwe, Rose, Heinie, Kanko, Potgieter,Raubenheimer, Bekker, Danie, Jannie Dup, Chilliboy, Steenkamp.
Pienaar, WO, Bosman, Bekker, Danie, Jannie, Chilliboy reserves for the tests.
What do you think. Do they stand a chance against the Froggies?
1 Nov 2009, 21:33 pm
#384 nama1: ja…we got a chance…as you know i kak myself with that front row….but if we hold our own we will be okay. We seldom beat France over there….so will be tough.
Dont like Ruan at 15 5though….he will moan like hell!!
1 Nov 2009, 21:34 pm
#377 Transformation:
It is one of the greatest songs ever written.
“Advertising signs that con you
Into thinking you’re the one
That can do what’s never been done
That can win what’s never been won
Meantime life outside goes on
All around you.
AND:
“Old lady judges watch people in pairs
Limited in ***, they dare
To push fake morals, insult and stare
While money doesn’t talk, it swears
Obscenity, who really cares
Propaganda, all is phony.”
And so on ….. I just love it.
Dylan at his best.
1 Nov 2009, 21:35 pm
#371 Big Hit:
He admitted sniffing some white powdery stuff doing “body hits” with a stripper. Although there were some sexual contact, there was no ***, according to him.
1 Nov 2009, 21:36 pm
#384 nama1:
I think you’ve got the staring 15 spot on, but you’ve left a spot on the bench which should go to Pottie.
1 Nov 2009, 21:40 pm
#379 David:
No, sorry, I am referring to the second string team, not the reserves for the A team.
That is where I think they could have done much better by picking players who performed during the cc like Vermeulen, Strauss, Sykes, Grant etc.
1 Nov 2009, 21:41 pm
#387 nama1: yeah, when did he admit it? the curious thing about it is he had a pregnant wife at home. Was he an habitual drug user or was it a one-off or did he not say?
1 Nov 2009, 21:42 pm
#385 grant10:
One thing about this team though is that they don’t seem to care what the history books say. Two wins in NZ in two years are prove that they believe they can win any game, anywhere.
I believe PdV played a big role in instilling that believe into the players.
1 Nov 2009, 21:43 pm
#389 Robzim: agreed
and i got no problem if they admit that they had to choose quota’s to keep the politicians happy
but dont lie and think people are all a bunch of idiots that cant see the **** selections and what they stand for
that pisses me off more then the fact a lot of brilliant players didnt get selected , and they call it merit
1 Nov 2009, 21:44 pm
It is my understanding that players who perform well in the Currie cup genrally get a spot on the squad
Was PDV watching the Currie Cup???
I understand with some selections, who he is trying to please, but come on, some selections are not just a suprise but very strange
1 Nov 2009, 21:46 pm
#392 sharks_lover:
I have to agree with that.
Just come out and say we want to try some new players, and not say they deserve a spot in the squad
Although Earl Rose is not a new player
1 Nov 2009, 21:47 pm
#391 nama1: yes…pdv without doubt has installed a sense of confidence….and who knows….?
But France will be eyeing that front row consisting 2 x hookers and a ex loose forward….and saying thats where we nail them!!
Hope i am wrong…but we will eventually bear the pain of a poor front row….inevitable i reckon.
But what the hell….lets smash the Frogs…..
Cheers all…Outta here
1 Nov 2009, 21:48 pm
#393 CoachPete: deysel , sykes , mapoe , alberts , strauss , vermeulen , to name a few that should have been in the squad
1 Nov 2009, 21:50 pm
i tell ya if the usa rugby union used their brains and MONEY they have , they would be buying out 50% of the talent here in SA
would come cheap for them and **** they could built with talent like that and spread the game more in the usa
1 Nov 2009, 21:51 pm
Yes I cant disagree at all
But you and I know what is going on here.
it just worries me that these players who are potential future springboks to take the palce of guys retiring, they may move to Europe sooner than later.
Sad
1 Nov 2009, 21:51 pm
#392 sharks_lover:
Exactly my point, I just hope we do not lose more players to Europe.
Hoskins must watch his trap.
1 Nov 2009, 21:51 pm
#390 Big Hit:
He admits it in a biography called, Joost: Man in a mirror. The newspapers and internet sites carried pieces of it today. I don’t know whether it was a habit or a once off thing but apparently that specific drug is quite commonly used amongst the people in Pretoria.
1 Nov 2009, 21:52 pm
#397 sharks_lover:
USA rugby = no brains no money no coaches
Watch out for China
1 Nov 2009, 21:53 pm
#399 Robzim:
Hi Rob Hoezit
Yes we see whats happening here.
1 Nov 2009, 21:55 pm
#401 CoachPete: Howzit Coach, Just logged on quick to say Hi. How you doing mate? Did you get to see the CC final?
What you think of the Bok Selections?
Some crazy ones. Thought some were a sure bet to make it but never.
1 Nov 2009, 21:55 pm
#395 grant10:
Dont forget with have M steyn and that means points onthe board so French test may be a close one, but i think a bok win
1 Nov 2009, 21:56 pm
#400 nama1: it’s surprising as I always thought he was a straight-laced sort of character, never believed the rumours before. Guess where there’s smoke there’s fire. Hopefully he can move on from it.
1 Nov 2009, 21:57 pm
#402 CoachPete: Coach Hiya – Puma and I have been watching you from ‘The Other Side’…..
How are things with you, long time no speak…?
1 Nov 2009, 21:57 pm
#403 Puma:
Hi Mate
yes I did
Pity cheetahs could not pull it off.
Once again it was M steyn and Fdp.
I am disappointed in the squad
1 Nov 2009, 21:59 pm
#406 carol:
Hi there Beautiful
I am fine Hope you are been well looked after by the boys.
Nice to see you. Your rugby knowledge is excelent these days.
1 Nov 2009, 21:59 pm
pete i think again if the usa put their mind to it rugby there could be top of the world
they have a shitload of huge fast talent , only problem isd rugby isnt in the blood
another one is russia and georgia
1 Nov 2009, 21:59 pm
#402 CoachPete:
Howzit coach,
Could u watch the final from the USA?
Did u see Hammies are the SA club champs?
Robin still going strongly at the surfing?
I am so p@ssed of with the selected team, these guys are really determined to chase players away it seems.
1 Nov 2009, 22:00 pm
OK Grant,Rob, Big Hit, Nama, Sharkie, Soda, David – Have we got to be so ruddy serious all night or shall I just slink off?
1 Nov 2009, 22:01 pm
#403 Puma:
yeah like hooker , wing lock center maybe and prop
1 Nov 2009, 22:03 pm
carol strip for us and run nekke through the room
1 Nov 2009, 22:03 pm
#407 CoachPete: Yes some should really have made it. I am too disappinted in with some selections.
Some will eventually leave if they never get selected.
Think PdV has to be under pressure to select some players. Just cannot understand why he left out some players that really, really should have made that squad.
1 Nov 2009, 22:03 pm
meant disappointed
1 Nov 2009, 22:03 pm
#410 Robzim:
yes to Final I get to see all the rugby
I read about my old club
Rob is still going strong with surfing but a bit gut vol
1 Nov 2009, 22:03 pm
#408 CoachPete: So good to see you here Coach, all is well with me thanks….
I have some great rugby coming up Wales v AB’s next weekend for a start….Love going to Cardiff, great atmosphere there.
Still prefer the South African rugby to ours though!!
1 Nov 2009, 22:04 pm
#411 carol:
Hi, OK maybe we should just relax a bit, it is only a stupid game I guess.
Congratulations with the win.
btw, how is Stormer doing or is he now called Bloues or Blues?
1 Nov 2009, 22:04 pm
#411 carol:
Hi Carol, I’d forgotten that Jeremy Clarkson would have been a neighbour of yours. It couldn’t be so boring there.
1 Nov 2009, 22:06 pm
#413 sharks_lover</ OK……..
1 Nov 2009, 22:06 pm
#405 Big Hit:
Everybody thought that about Hansie too until the paw-paw hit the fan.
He did apologise and ask for forgiveness for his actions. He is working it out with his wife and hopes to keep his family together.
1 Nov 2009, 22:06 pm
#417 carol:
Should that not read ” you still prefer south africans full stop
1 Nov 2009, 22:08 pm
#308 SodaJoe: why compare Rose with Mapoe, does Mapoe play full-back?
I don’t really understand the reaction to the Rose selection, he is looking more and more comfortable at 15 and in the Sharks/Lions game was arguably the best player on the field.
1 Nov 2009, 22:08 pm
#420 carol: lol @ OK
1 Nov 2009, 22:09 pm
#418 Robzim:
And earl Rose is just in the squad for moral so the others can laugh at him at practice
1 Nov 2009, 22:09 pm
#418 Robzim: Hi Rob, Stormer is still Stormer – His real name is Ashagan but he will always be Stormer to me.
Blue Bull is a **** name for a horse!!
So the surf was rubbish and you watched The Bulls instead!!
You have to be glad that so many of the bulls boys are Boks, you will love them in the next few weeks again!!
1 Nov 2009, 22:09 pm
#421 nama1: yeah, guess you just never know. Hope he does hold it together, never nice to see a family break up.
1 Nov 2009, 22:10 pm
#424 sharks_lover: …..You blinked and missed me…………..!!!!!!!!!!
1 Nov 2009, 22:10 pm
#421 nama1:
Yeah, the Sunday papers were full value today with all the gossiping.
I saw that Minki is also getting a divorce – apparently her husband saw some SMS’s to Greame.
If he has not got his hands full already as it is??
1 Nov 2009, 22:10 pm
#423 Big Hit:
i know you want us to lose some games, but earl Rose ???????
Come BH
1 Nov 2009, 22:12 pm
#412 CoachPete: Coach, Mapoe should have got selected even if he has signed for the 7′s should have bought him out of it.
Sykes, Deysel, Alberts, Vermeulen and J. Pietersen from WP should have been selected. Also H. Adams is 30 now should have selected Vermaak or even Kockott. Think Ruan going to play from the bench and cover 15, 10 and 9. Not fair on him.
Why Rose is there is a mystery.
The biggest shock was not seeing Mapoe making it. Shame he had such a good season. Should have been going on tour.
Watch out for Mvovo from the Sharks. I rate him before Odwa too.
1 Nov 2009, 22:12 pm
OK Lady and okies, I am off Nice to see you all
Cheers
1 Nov 2009, 22:12 pm
#419 David: Jeremy Clarkson has not yet invited us to dinner!! I am still waiting!!
He is in the David Cameron, Pop Star, Old Money Cotswold Celeb crowd! We are humble farming neighbours!!
1 Nov 2009, 22:12 pm
#428 carol: lol
1 Nov 2009, 22:13 pm
take muh blinkers off again??
1 Nov 2009, 22:13 pm
#431 Puma:
yes I agree with all of that
And IMO J Pietersen is best 15 in Sa rugby
1 Nov 2009, 22:13 pm
#430 CoachPete: I only saw him a couple of times in the CC but he played very well. Admittedly he was shocking in the S14 but it takes time to adapt to full-back. I guess Joe Pietersen may have been a better pick but tis not wise to question the wee maestro
1 Nov 2009, 22:14 pm
#422 CoachPete: Coach I just ADORE South Africans full stop….
Good Night and have a great week, lovely to see you here again!!
1 Nov 2009, 22:14 pm
cheers tc mate ^5
1 Nov 2009, 22:14 pm
#376 grant10:
In a perfect world we might see the following scenario:
1. the Dirttrackers beat Leicester;
2. the Testboks as they played in the 3N beat the Frogs (Pottie on bench as loosie cover),and
3. the Dirttrackers beat Saracens,
AND THEN PDV ELECTS TO DO THE FOLLOWING:
Against Italy- (starters first)
15. Kirchner/Ruan Pienaar
14. JPP
13. J de Jongh/J Fourie
12. W Olivier
11. Habana
10. M Steyn
9. F Hougaard/FdP
8. P Spies
7. D Potgieter/S. Burger
6. H Brussouw
5. A Bekker/V. Matfield
4. B Botha
3. J. Smit/J.du Plessis
2. Chilli/Bismarck
1. Beast
Play J Smit and Bekker for 50 minutes and then sub them simultaneously with Matfield taking over captaincy- rest of subs, injury only. So you rest some Testboks,and against Ireland:
15. Ruan Pienaar/Z. Kirchner
14. JPP
13. J.Fourie/J de Jongh
12. W. Olivier
11. B. Habana
10. M. Steyn
9. FdP/F. Hougaard
8. P. Spies
7. S.Burger/D. Potgieter (approx 50/30 min split, or as injury dictates)
6. H. Brussouw
5. V. Matfield/A. Bekker
4. B. Botha
3. J. Smit/J. du Plessis
2. Bismarck/Chilli
1. Beast
I believe that this is the best-balanced 22 that can be picked from the 37, and we blood 4 youngsters(Kirchner, Hougaard, de Jongh and Potgieter) in two tests at minimum risk.
1 Nov 2009, 22:14 pm
BH
Who do you think the Tigers and Sarries will rest for the midweek games? I can’t see them risking their premier players for what is basically a friendly.
1 Nov 2009, 22:14 pm
#425 CoachPete:
Yeah, or that piece of magic that he comes up with every one out of 10 games. Just not enough.
I honestly do not know what more he must do to prove that is not an international quality player.
1 Nov 2009, 22:15 pm
#438 carol: cuzz we are so adorable
1 Nov 2009, 22:16 pm
#436 CoachPete: He is right now. He should have got selected.
I would still have selected Frans Steyn even if he is playing overseas. Well that how it goes I suppose.
Cheers Coach. Good to catch up again.
1 Nov 2009, 22:16 pm
#429 Robzim: Is this Minki Van Der Vesthazen, I have no idea who she is but Jim T and I thought she had a brilliant name!!
1 Nov 2009, 22:17 pm
#435 sharks_lover: …………..WHOOSSSHHHH………..
1 Nov 2009, 22:17 pm
#443 sharks_lover: Yip…
1 Nov 2009, 22:18 pm
#426 carol:
I “surfed” earlier and did watch the game – bulls were OK, at least they have one world class player in Bryan Habanna.
He really stood out, lovely person as well, made a good career move also
1 Nov 2009, 22:19 pm
OK – Back to solid rugby boys…
I’m off……Mwahhhhh…have a great week!
1 Nov 2009, 22:20 pm
Watch this Viljoen kid thats one selection Pdv got right he’s best Fb in country maybe as good or perhaps better than F. Steyn, fearless, big boot, plenty gas. Better than Kirchner and Ruan at 15 even better than Terblanche. Adams an Ok call too, Vermaak injured and Kockott a no no. Adams is best distributor off the back of the scrum we have. S. Pretorius is next in line not Vermaak or Kockott.
The poor selections were actually J. Du Plessis and Rose and Ndungane and Kanko, those were the weak selections. Adams, Raubenheimer, Johnson, Hargreaves, nothing wrong.
1 Nov 2009, 22:20 pm
Cheers all.
Enjoy the rest of your evening.
Blogged far too much today. Going to shower and off to bed
Once again well done Bulls.
1 Nov 2009, 22:21 pm
mwahhhhh night carol tc hun hagw 2
1 Nov 2009, 22:21 pm
#445 carol:
That is her, she is a 10/10, a blonde, much better and fresher than Pammy or Tasmin.
Her husband is not in Kelly’s class though, not even close.
She used to go out with Greame Smith (SA cricket captain) and according to the sunday papers she might be heading back to him.
1 Nov 2009, 22:21 pm
tc bro catch you 2morrow
1 Nov 2009, 22:21 pm
#448 Robzim: Bulls loss is your gain…..!!
I owe you a mail…..till later, have a good week too!!
1 Nov 2009, 22:23 pm
#455 carol:
See u.
1 Nov 2009, 22:27 pm
poor selections were taking both Chili and Maku ahead of Strauss or Liebenberg, one of them would have been enough.
J. Dup ahead of Wp Nel
Roussouw ahead of Alberts
Kanko ahead of Vermeulen
Bosman ahead of Le Grange or Grant
Nokwe or Ndungane ahead of Mapoe
Rose ahead of J. Pietersen
Johnson, Hargreaves, Raubenheimer, Adams, Viljoen are all fine.
1 Nov 2009, 22:30 pm
#441 David: Tigers are already missing 19 players to injury, not sure who they can rest as there is no one available, but Billy Twelvetrees, Toby Flood and Sam Vesty might well be available. I reckon Saracens might rest their English players and put out a full strength Saffacens side.
1 Nov 2009, 22:32 pm
#458 Big Hit: hiyas BH mate ^5
how did F steyn play the weekend?
1 Nov 2009, 22:33 pm
#450 skopskiet:
Viljoen and Potgieter are the only ones competing for a place in the WC squad out of the uncapped players, as far as I can see, as those positions are still up for grabs.
Heini is there as the logical backup for FduP as he’s played with Morne and Spies, and should not be considered a long term option. Also in his favour is his colour without detracting from his abilities. PdeV’s just lucky there.
Bosman fills a position that we’re woefully weak in and has the ability to cover 10 as well, so I can’t understand all the moaning about the squad for the matches that matter.
1 Nov 2009, 22:36 pm
#457 skopskiet: coaches didn’t change much for the EOYT last year either, continuity is clearly a big thing for them and given their results it can’t really be argued with.
There are risks pursuing that strategy of course, the side can become too old and start to falter with no back-up ready and some of the young stars who are overlooked might feel they’d get a better deal in Europe.You can make a talented test side from the guys left behind.
1 Nov 2009, 22:39 pm
Maku = Quota Selection – end of story. Why can’t he stop bullshit us and just be honest and say the politicians have him by the balls and he will lose his job if he don’t select them.
1 Nov 2009, 22:40 pm
and Viljoen is a Pawn…
1 Nov 2009, 22:41 pm
they think the public is stupid…well 99% are but that’s another story for another day. In selecting Viljoen they try to win the “white vote” but Viljoen is just gonna be used…
1 Nov 2009, 22:42 pm
#459 sharks_lover: hi sl, I didn’t see the Racing/Toulouse highlights but someone on here said he had a top game, not surprising as everyone knows he quality. Can see the coach’s logic in not selecting the Euro-based players though.
1 Nov 2009, 22:43 pm
#457 skopskiet:
I think Meyer Bosman had a good game on Saturday and is a good playmaker.
Johnson had one good game against the Sharks – in the final he appeared to be out of his league (they substituted him very early)
I cannot see why Hargreaves made the team ahead of Sykes and a few others
And Raubenheimer?- what did he do during the season? – he was never hardly ever mentioned?
Anyway, these guys will only play against the Saracens and Tigers’ second teams, so what the hell?
1 Nov 2009, 22:44 pm
#457 skopskiet: So what you’re suggesting is that PdeV drops some of his current squad players in favour of new ones for the games against France and Ireland. I’d also like to see some of those players in the mix in future, but it’s obvious that he wants to win those games and cause as little disruption as possible.
1 Nov 2009, 22:47 pm
#464 Ned:
I suggest you go back to supporting netball, or whatever game it is that you know something about.
1 Nov 2009, 22:49 pm
you talk sh’t ned fool, Viljoen is best fb in the country far better than Kirchner or Pienaar or Terblanche, second only to F. Steyn on current attributes.
Maku is probably better than Chili but Chili has too much invested in him to give up on him. If it were me I’d probably leave Chili behind.
The quota player is actually Jan Dup
Weakest link in the whole squad, Kanko not too far behind.
1 Nov 2009, 22:51 pm
#464 Ned:
Just relax, man.
1 Nov 2009, 23:02 pm
Pdv knows these players far better than we do because he coached them at u21 so he’s in a better position to know their capabilities than we do. I don’t know Raubenheimer’s ability at all but I.m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Those I do know their capabilities like J. Dup, Kanko, Roussouw, Rose, Ndungane, Bosman, I rather swap for WP Nel, Vermeulen, Alberts, J. Pietersen, Mapoe, Le Grange or Grant.
Hargreaves, Johnson, Raubenheimer, Adams I.m happy to give benefit of doubt to.
Viljoen I know is class, so too Potgieter.
Adams will need make way for Pretorius or Hougaard in time to come.
1 Nov 2009, 23:03 pm
#458 Big Hit:
“Billy Twelvetrees,”
Interesting surname. Do you maybe know whether there is a story behind it?
1 Nov 2009, 23:05 pm
#472 nama1:
Sounds like another Tiger Woods, to me.
1 Nov 2009, 23:07 pm
Anyway guys, Good night, the die has been cast and we just need to see how it plays out.
1 Nov 2009, 23:14 pm
#472 nama1: no story, but his nickname is ’36′ given to him by the Irishman Geordan Murphy, see if you can work out why.
He looks a great prospect, just 20 and looks more of a surfer than a rugby player. Came on for his debut against Ospreys and rescued a 32 all draw for Tigers. Will likely play for England in time.
1 Nov 2009, 23:16 pm
#473 David:
LOL David. Good night. Over and out.
1 Nov 2009, 23:17 pm
So long
Rob to me Bosman has always flattered to deceive he’s quite big and strong but lacks vision and usually dies with the ball. The one time on Saturday he took it up in Bulls 22 got isolated, turned over and Bulls scored their third try directly from stealing Cheetah’s positional and possession dominance in first quarter. Bosman is not a world class center and doubt ever will be, Le Grange on the other hand has all the makings, so too De Jongh and Jacobs on a good day. Not Bosman he’s selfish and dies with the ball far too often, a poor mans Jdv.
1 Nov 2009, 23:22 pm
Why the big fuss about PDV’s choices? Jake chose Frans Steyn before he was a regular choice in Natal, he chose Albert vd Bergh when he was an irregular bench warmer, Bobby was a second league centre in London, he preferred Danie Coetzee while Botha was no 1 in Pretoria, he chose Schalk Burger when the Stormers did not consider him good enough, he brought Habanna and Januarie from nowhere, he took Ashwin Willemse and Wayne Julies to the World Cup when they were not regulars in their provinces, he made centre Meyer Bosman a Springbok when he hardly played flyhalf. The list goes on. And to go a little back. Harry Viljoen chose Jantjes and Big Joe before they play provincial. Frik du Preez became a Bok on a tour to the UK and France before he was a regular in NTvl, Dawie Snyman and Mike Lawless played second fiddle to Jannie Barnard, Tommy Gentles to **** Lockyear, Clive Ulyatte to Natie Rens, Toni Roux to Mauritz Neuhoff, Gert Kotze to Hannes Marais. Do not forget Kitch with Gavin Johnson (a carbon copy of Rose), Rob Brink, Chris Rossouw, Balie Swart on Tighthead.
And what about the undeserving whites in the present team? Danie Rossouw will again sub for the loosies while he is behind at least four in Pretoria (worst than Maku), Van der Merwe was out since April and what did Hougaardt do to deserve the green and gold? – also no 3 as scrum half and a mediocre wing.
Come on Keo, if you want to moan, at least be consistent.
1 Nov 2009, 23:26 pm
I would say that although I was a PDV doubter 2 years ago, he seems to have delivered.
I will pass comment on this squad after the tour. I would not have picked some of the players, but hell, I am not coach.
Whatever the outcome, I want the Boks to win, and as always, I will support them.
1 Nov 2009, 23:44 pm
#463 Ned: lol…and what is jannie dup? allister who? Why is bandise’s selection the only one vexing to you?
2 Nov 2009, 01:20 am
#114 Valkyrie: Exactly how many chances has Kanko been given? He hasn’t even been allowed to start a game yet for the Boks let alone play for more than 20 minutes! Olivier again, got one start (yes he was pathetic in that match) and barely featured in the Tri-nations along with Kanko so I don’t know how you can say that.
They are fringe players at best – Spies has been given far more chances than them and he is yet to live up to his hype so why don’t you start looking at the incumbents before taking potshots at the dirt trackers?
2 Nov 2009, 01:34 am
#469 skopskiet: Picking on the Sharks players again I see…that is an absolute joke. So you’d rather Earl “oh my god I don’t what the fck to do” Rose in the squad over JdP who at least is a tighthead? Sorry but how can anyone take you seriously after that comment.
Also how is having Kanko any different than having Spies there? Spies is yet to deliver on his big hype and Kanko hasnt been allowed to play more than 20 mins each time so how exactly can we pass judgement on his ability when he’s only brought on once the game has been won? What is it about the Sharks you hate so much?
Weak links in the squad are:
ROSE
Chili boy
Heinke – hasn’t played in an age
Kirchner – not convinced he has sufficient BMT
Nokwe – ridiculously fast but poor in defence
No hard nut flanker like Deysel or Vermuelen to replace Juan Smith
This team on a highway to a hiding and Ireland are going to tear us a new *******. They will be baying for our blood and without a hard nut 7 Ferris will walk all over us. I just pray Ashley Johnson is up to the task.
2 Nov 2009, 01:36 am
#482 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: I forgot to add Spies to that list of weaklinks – I wonder how many times we’ll see him to knock on at the back of the scrum and cost us an essential attacking platform?
2 Nov 2009, 01:37 am
#463 Ned: but not a Prawn?
2 Nov 2009, 01:40 am
#483 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: Also forgot Ndungane – poor hands.
2 Nov 2009, 03:35 am
#478 Namibianmaverick: Spot on. All teams have a few “surprises.” Piet Snor is the coach and have the right to success or fail. Go Bokke.
2 Nov 2009, 03:50 am
Hows it going all. First time posting here and I must say its a very good well informed blog. I have seen various posts here and elsewhere(and articles mainly in NH) saying France and Ireland will give SA a good game, some suggesting they will both beat SA. It puzzles me to be honest. I’m Irish and as much as I would absolutely love to see us win in Croke Park against the top 15 SA team, I honestly think its an extremely low probability. We won in 2004 and 2006 but this SA team are in a different league right now to everyone else and Ireland are nowhere near their standard, particularly with the very poor form of Munster and to a lesser extent Leinster. I watch a tonne of rugby both NH and SH and love almost all of it and I have to say that the performances in the Currie Cup by all the semifinalists have been by far and away head and shoulders above anything I have seen in Air NZ cup, magners, H-cup, premiership or Top 14 in France so far this year. I think France have a better shot at SA as we all know that on their day France are capable of playing unbelievable rugby. There is the small matter of Declan Kidney being able to weave magic in Ireland’s favor so I will cling to that for now. Looking forward to it in any case.
2 Nov 2009, 06:15 am
#482 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke:
So you think that Schalk at 7 is a softie?
2 Nov 2009, 06:20 am
#478 Namibianmaverick:
Danie is the backup for Bakkies. When did you miss that?
2 Nov 2009, 06:29 am
Crouchety reading with his A hole again. Where I say I’d rather have Rose over Jdp in squad? You got some seriously deluded blinkers covering your eyes.
If you look properly and closely I said:
I rather have Wp Nel over Jdp.
Would leave one of Maku or Chili behind and take Liebenberg or Strauss.
Would leave Roussouw out for Alberts.
Have Vermeulen ahead of Kanko.
Take Mapoe ahead of Ndungane or Nokwe.
Take Joe Pietersen ahead of Rose.
Thats what I said not wtf you thought I said, next time open your eyes and your brain. I also said biggest quota in the team is Jannie Dup and Kanko not too far behind. And thank the Lord they left useless Muller out at last and taken some potential in Hargreaves instead.
2 Nov 2009, 07:13 am
#482 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: for goodness’ sake crouchy give it a rest! What is with the wounded animal attitude all the time? Get over skopkiet, you’re making his assertions about you sound like they may have some truth to them.
2 Nov 2009, 07:53 am
#475 Big Hit:
12 x 3 = 36, I suppose.
Post 478: Yeah… some would have us believe that the Bok teams/squads of the past were always solely picked on merit… without some coaches favourite… you forgot to mention Markgraaf taking his drinking buddy on tour Theo Oosthuizen, not so?
#482 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke:
Did you actually read the man’s posts. See 457.
2 Nov 2009, 08:22 am
that is because mr PdV doesn’t select on merit and if they had played as 1st choice where would those provinces be? the provinces play merit based players and the springboks are turning into a big “white elephant” with all these players that may have talent but cant cut a 1st choice starting bearth regulary
2 Nov 2009, 08:39 am
#493 Dunx:
PdeV has done what the NZRU does every year when they draft young players into a franchise where they’ll get game time at a higher level and the selectors can monitor their progress. SARU don’t have this power, so PdeV has done the next best thing and included them for midweek games against decent club sides in the NH.
2 Nov 2009, 09:15 am
Hold onto your panties people.
Our ‘A’ side will be exactly the same as the one that won the Tri Nations & beat the British & Irish Lions bar Frans Steyn & JDV and Juan Smith.
Think about it. Our dirt trackers will be our A side bench plus the others. Something like…
1. Gurthro Steenkamp
2. Chilliboy Ralepele
3. Jannie Du Plessis
4. Danie Rossouw
5. Andries Bekker
6. Devon Raubenheimer
7. Dewald Potgeiter
8. Ryan Kankowski
9. Frans Hougaard
10. Ruan Pienaar (Or if Ruan plays 15 for the A’s then Meyer Bosman)
11. Jongi Nokwe
12. Adi Jacobs
13. Juan De Jongh
14. Odwa Ndungane
15. Zane Kirchner
16. Bandise Maku
17. Heinke Van der Merve
18. Ashley Johnson
19. Heini Adams
20. Riaan Viljoen
21. Alaister Hargreaves
22. Meyer Bosman
23. Earl Rose
That’s a damn good side.
Not sure why they persist with Nokwe and Rose. I would go for Mapoe and Burton Francis over those two anyday and you still have your ‘quota’.
2 Nov 2009, 09:36 am
I posted this in an old dead thread:
The inclusion of Rose is still the most perplexing choice. No matter how talented he is, he has shown time and again that he does not step up to the plate in the big games when it really counts.
Time and again he has been thrown in at the deep end with the hope that he will swim and time and again he has failed.
If he is to have a future in SA rugby I would say that he rather has to drop down to a smaller union like Griekwas where the pressure is less and he can build some confidence.
Heinke is also a weird choice. He hasn’t played any rugby since April and according to reports here on Keo, he was only going to start playing again in next year’s S14. Even weirder is the fact that JC calls Heinke a “good selection”. In my mind there are many props who played well in the CC and deserved a call-up ahead of him.
Isn’t it about time we give someone else a chance ahead of the Ndungane brothers? They have served SA well as solid second stringers, but there is so much exciting young talent on the wing to choose from.
The one glaring omission is Adriaan Strauss. When he got his chance in a Bok jersey last year through the injury of the top three or four hookers he grabbed it with both hands. Since then he played brilliantly for the Cheetahs and has shown himself as a great leader as well.
2 Nov 2009, 09:49 am
#494 David:
With the exception of Jacobs, PdV didn’t pick passangers this season when tough, decided tests were on the line!
Jacobs was dumped at half time of the 2nd Lions’ Test and Jaques Fourie came on to win the series
On the 3rd Test there were 4 passangers in the Boks line up and the Boks lost that Test, but the series already had been won.
In Brisbane, PdV brought on 3 passangers and packed the banch with few more, result: Test was lost.
But it had no effect on winning the Tri Nation 2009, the ABs were extremly dysfunctional this year, they lost their lineouts and their backs dropped 14 balls per test on average, Ndungane helped the ABs cause in the 3rd (and last) Test but the Boks with Styen’s 60m kicks won it nevertheless!
2 Nov 2009, 10:12 am
#494 David: But you’re overlooking the glaring difference between SA and NZ – namely, that we have a race quota in SA rugby. It seems illogical to overlook this when analysing team selections. It’s fairly obvious who has benefited from their complexion.
2 Nov 2009, 10:17 am
#497 Hondo:
He hasn’t picked any passengers for the EOY tests either. Apart from Potgieter on the bench and possibly Viljoen against Italy the test squad is unchanged. I suspect that Bosman is only there as a replacement 12 since Jean has left.
2 Nov 2009, 10:40 am
Mr. Cardinelli, time for you to also get with the program. PdV has proven that his master-plan, bizar as it may appear at times, is working. Forget about the odd “controversial” selections, think future. Any selection from WP is not a longterm prospect as they will inevitabilly move to a glamour European club. Loyalty is not their strongest atribute.
You don’t develop PDI players by bringing them into a squad when you are struggling. You bleed them while you are on top. I would rather have exposed another 2 or 3 in stead of a couple of the guys who are on the wrong side of 30. Whether it is said or not, if Rugby is not seen to be transforming, the politicians will make the decisions for us. Live with it!
We have an opertunity to make rugby the no.1 sport in SA over the next to years. With the PSL and Bafana being in the state it is, many people have already made the switch. The more successful and representative our team is, the better for the future of our beloved game.
2 Nov 2009, 11:59 am
Peter de Villier’s wavelength in an enigma…don’t even try go there
2 Nov 2009, 12:18 pm
#487 AlanD:
nice post, but ireland and france have both had it over SA over the last 5 years on the EOY tours, going to be very hard to beat – also alot of extremely tired Bok/Bulls players.
2 Nov 2009, 14:35 pm
#490 skopskiet: What’s with all the insults? Please show me what gives you the right to speak to me in such a disrespectful way? This is why people get such the hell in with you Skop because you can’t ever refute someone’s point without flinging childish school yard insults. That is the sign of an weak debater. If you can’t speak to people without descending into a flurry of vitriolic personal attacks then I suggest don’t respond at all.
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