Selections highlight flawed system
1 Nov 2009
Several tour selections reiterate a sad truth that Peter de Villiers and the Currie Cup coaches aren’t on the same wavelength.
De Villiers has defended the selection of Earl Rose time and again, choosing to ignore the player’s inconsistent offerings in the Super 14 and Currie Cup. He’s rather blamed the Lions’ coaching staff for not giving Rose more opportunities at flyhalf, where De Villiers feels Rose is best.
Chiliboy Ralepelle will tour with the Springboks this November despite playing understudy – when he was fit – to Derick Kuun for the better part of 2009. Bandise Maku is one behind Ralepelle in the Bulls’ hooker queue, but bizarrely has also made De Villiers’ 37-man touring party.
Adriaan Strauss and Tiaan Liebenberg have enjoyed fantastic seasons for the Cheetahs and WP respectively, and have also been involved with the Boks before. It would have made more sense to take these players on tour, as they wouldn’t let the Boks down if Bismarck du Plessis succumbed to injury.
For De Villiers to say Maku has made the touring squad on merit is an interesting statement, as it suggests neither form nor game time in the domestic and Super 14 tournaments are pre-requisites for national selection. Maku is talented and deserves to play at Super 14 and Currie Cup level, but what has he done in those tournaments to deserve elevation to the national squad?
Maku’s selection may be justified if there weren’t other players performing, but that just isn’t the case. It could be justified if Liebenberg (27) and Strauss (23) were on the wrong side of 30, but that isn’t the case either.
Rose is the classic example of a De Villiers favourite keeping a more deserving candidate out of the national set-up. There are other backline players that deserved to tour, WP’s Peter Grant as well as the Cheetahs’ Lionel Mapoe just two that come to mind. In the case of Grant, the tour would provide an alternative flyhalf the opportunity to gain game time so that if Morne Steyn broke down, he would slot in seamlessly. In the case of Mapoe, it would provide an up-and-coming youngster the opportunity to take the next step. Unlike Maku and Rose, Mapoe has earned the right to be there through his consistent performances in the Currie Cup.
There are other players that will feel frustrated. WP flanks Duane Vermeulen and Francois Louw have been outstanding this season, as has Province loosehead Wicus Blaauw. The young flankers would have benefited immensely from a tour experience, but instead De Villiers has opted for Griquas’ Davon Raubenheimer. Instead of Blaauw or other impressive young props like WP Nel and Coenie Oosthuizen, De Villiers has gone for Gurthro Steenkamp, a player that was embarrassed at scrum time in the Currie Cup final.
The decision to take a perfectly good loosehead in Heinke van der Merwe and switch him to tighthead is also ludicrous. Why not give this promising player from the Cheetahs a go? If Os du Randt feels Nel is national prospect, why aren’t the national selectors taking that suggestion to heart?
It’s hard to have faith in De Villiers’ masterplan to defend the Boks’ world title when it’s clear his view differs from that of the Currie Cup coaches. When Ruan Pienaar went back to the Sharks, they played him at No 9, even though De Villiers wants him to get game time at 10 and 15. The Lions prefer to use Rose at fullback or off the bench, while Ralepelle and Maku are regular bench warmers at the Bulls. One way or another, it’s not a healthy situation for Springbok rugby.
De Villiers and the respective coaches need to iron out their communication problems and work toward a common goal. It’s no use to the Boks if a South African side wins the Super 14 or Currie Cup without the starting players De Villiers plans to utilise at Test level.
By Jon Cardinelli
503 Comments
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1 Nov 2009, 06:03 am
PDV has to pick the required quota of “quota players”, come hell or high water. Or Butana will fire him.
1 Nov 2009, 06:10 am
Vermeulen, Alberts, Strauss, Liebenberg, Nel, Kockott, Ludik… the Melbourne Rebels and for those not capped… the Wallabies will be calling…
1 Nov 2009, 06:12 am
Pity the likes of Maku, Rose, Ralepelle don’t have the ‘sincerity’ of Charl Langeveld… I don’t know how they can look themselves in the mirror!
1 Nov 2009, 06:40 am
Statement: “Several tour selections reiterate a sad truth that Peter de Villiers and the Currie Cup coaches aren’t on the same wavelength”
Talks are cheap JC, it’s “money that buys the whisky”
1 Nov 2009, 06:48 am
In order to make sense of this squad it needs to be divided into 2. Guys like Odwa are there because they’re part of the existing Bok structure and have the experience. I don’t think PdeV wants to risk a rookie for the games against France and Ireland.
1 Nov 2009, 07:02 am
#5 David:
Both France and Ireland have the teams to beat a full strength Boks when playing at their home grounds.
Sending the Beast, Steenkamp and Chiliboy against them, it could result in broken necks and spines.
1 Nov 2009, 07:15 am
#6 Hondo:
Steenkamp will be on the bench, as will Chiliboy. The point I made is that the core of the squad is the same one that won the 3N and beat the Lions, excepting JdeV and Frans.
1 Nov 2009, 07:25 am
#2 bryce_in_oz:
Don’t get hysterical. Those guys are already playing S14, besides the new ARU rules only allows for one marquee player and a limited number of young foreigners in their Super squads.
1 Nov 2009, 07:46 am
#3 bryce_in_oz: Agreed. Charl did the right thing.
1 Nov 2009, 07:58 am
#8 David:
I suggest you do a bit of ‘research’ on the changes in the pipeline commencing with the introduction of the Melbourne rebels…
1 Nov 2009, 08:08 am
Players out of position at national level is a cancer in our rugby. Anyone advocating it is a fool.
1 Nov 2009, 08:11 am
#10 bryce_in_oz:
This is the only thing I could find that actually addresses the matter, dated 07/10/2009. I don’t know if you have more upto date info?
?We’re a new franchise in a limited market and as such are permitted by the ARU to recruit Australians from abroad whether they’re currently eligible to play for Australia or not.
?We’re permitted to recruit a smattering of Pacific Islanders and Argentinians.
?We’re also allowed to recruit a marquee player.
1 Nov 2009, 08:13 am
Div doesn’t pick this side alone and he has proved he can get the results so lets see who actually runs onto the field and who are just getting a nice long Bok holiday.
These big squads are a joke – the money spent on the Bok tourists would be better spent on rugby development or even have a training camp for them in SA where they could play games against the Super 14 sides for next year.
1 Nov 2009, 08:20 am
As mentioned on another post, let’s have a trial match.
The EOY 2nd-string Boks vs:
Wian Du Preez
Adrian Strauss
WP Nel
Stephen Sykes
David De Villiers
Francois Louw
Duane Vermeulen
Willem Alberts
Jano Vermaak
Burton Francis
Lionel Mapoe
Peter Grant
Waylon Murray
Gio Aplon
Joe Pieterson
Wicus Blaauw
Tiaan Liebenberg
Anton Van Zyl
Jean Deyzel
Sarel Pretorius
Luziko Vulindlu
Louis Ludik
1 Nov 2009, 08:20 am
I’m still blown away that we can be world champions and the no 1 ranked team in the world despite all these political interferences.
1 Nov 2009, 08:22 am
And when they’re overseas, let’s see how the do against:
CJ Van Der Linde
Schalk Britz
BJ Botha
Juandre Kruger
Gerrie Britz
Luke Watson
Wikus Van Heerden
Joe Van Niekerk
Neil De Kock
Butch James
Brent Russell
Jean De Villiers
Marius Joubert
Gcobani Bobo
Frans Steyn
Daan Human
Danie Coetzee
Ross Skeate
Shaun Sowerby
Michael Claassens
Derick Hougaard
Philip Burger
1 Nov 2009, 08:32 am
Good article JC. Only your point about Peter Grant I don’t agree with. Ruan Pienaar is the back-up flyhalf to Morne Steyn. There would be no point in taking Grant on tour.
1 Nov 2009, 08:33 am
Australia need depth:
Anton Van Zyl
Duane Vermeulen
Jean Deyzel
Willem Alberts
Rory Kockott
Sarel Pretorius
?
1 Nov 2009, 08:45 am
Rose’s selection is an absolute joke – he will never be international material- he is a good (at times ) Currie Cup player , nothing more. The reason why he is in the team is because Rose’s dad and De Villiers are big mates
1 Nov 2009, 08:54 am
#19 dh@rv:
Er… Snor is married to Earl’s aunt… they are related…
1 Nov 2009, 09:11 am
#2 bryce_in_oz: You are 100% correct there Bryce. All those players will leave if never given the chance. I for one wont blame them. Actually wish Oz would give them a chance they deserve it and deserve to be playing at the highest level.
Here in SA we will NEVER see players being picked on merit alone ever.
I do feel maybe PdV is under pressure to select certain players.
SA rugby will never grow into the strength that it should be doing if they keep on selecting quota players.
1 Nov 2009, 09:14 am
#18 puff: Don’t be surprised if you see those players playing for OZ. Think most of them have had enough of waiting. They keep performing at the highest level just to be left out to players that don’t deserve to be selected.
1 Nov 2009, 09:18 am
Flawed system? As far as I am concerned the selectors choose their team. If they win, they get some accolades, if they loose they get fired. That seems fair.
1 Nov 2009, 09:19 am
Recon there are a few in the squad who will feel uncomfortable and find it hard to look others in the eye. Pity.
1 Nov 2009, 09:26 am
#21 Puma:
Here in SA we have NEVER picked players on merit alone.
#6 Hondo:
Come now Hondo. You know what the front row would look like in the tests.
1 Nov 2009, 09:38 am
gnash gnash gnash gnash
Whats the poor coach to do. Cc and S14 coaches aren’t playing ball so he has to pull rank and select those they sideline or else walk the gang plank. Only problem is some dire shortsighted lack of clarity when it comes down to playing Rose and Ndungane ahead of Mapoe or Joe Pietersen or Bosman ahead of Le Grange.
Those I would have taken
W. Du Preez
Liebenberg
WP Nel
A. Van Zyl
Vermeulen
Alberts
S. Pretorius
P. Grant
D. Le Grange
L. Mapoe
J. Pietersen
Left behind
J. Smit
J. Du Plessis
C. Ralepelle
A. Hargreaves
D. Raubenheimer
M. Bosman
O. Ndungane
E. Rose
(adams, kirchner, maku, jacobs)
1 Nov 2009, 09:43 am
#26 Kanko should be out also in favor of Alberts. And D. Roussouw still a luxury when better 2nd row or back row prospects are busting down the door.
1 Nov 2009, 09:44 am
#22 Puma:
Most of those players are to old to qualify for Oz, under their present rules which were formulated last year, as none of them would qualify as a “development” player.
“Sitting in Sydney on Friday, the nine-man board also settled on the conditions of the recently-altered policy allowing Super 14 franchises the opportunity to recruit foreigners.
Australian teams can each sign two overseas players for next year’s Super 14, but will be restricted to just one “marquee” foreigner – an international who can never qualify for the Wallabies.
The four Super 14 teams will also be able to contract a second “developing” foreigner yet to represent his native country at Test, sevens or A-team level and could qualify for the Wallabies after three years of residency.
The board accepted a management recommendation that a province could sign two development players if it opted against recruiting an established overseas star.
Marquee signings will be limited to a two-year stint and Super 14 teams must apply to the ARU before contracting foreign players.”
1 Nov 2009, 09:49 am
We should simply revert to the old style of trials. Play an A team against a B team and see who dominates who. Then selectors can stand on their heads if player A outperforms player B he won’t be able to question the call.
1 Nov 2009, 10:04 am
SKOPSKIET,
Would you drop John Smit or rest him?
1 Nov 2009, 10:12 am
#29 skopskiet:
It never worked in the past because coaches still pick the players they intended to in the first place.
As for De Villiers’ selections, I support him despite one or two baffling picks. He’s in the unfortunate situation where not only does he have to satisfy the ruling government as well as the supporters, he also has to keep the spirits up so the “suspect” players go on tour with a belief that even though they’re somewhat lucky, they may just be worthy of the jersey by giving everything they’ve got instead of going through the paces and not caring.
1 Nov 2009, 10:12 am
#29 skopskiet:
Trials, now that’s an idea.
It was during the trials that Avril Williams outplayed Kobus Burger, the media and public’s favourite, for the right wing position for the tests against England in 1984 (I think) to become the first coloured player to be selected on merit. In my view he is still the only one to start of his test career as a merit player. Just a pity it only lasted for two tests before injuries forced him to quit the game.
All the others started of their Bok careers as quotas and through consistent good performances, became merit players.This would include Chester, Breyten, Habana, JPP, Beast.
It was also during the last trials held by a Bok coach that Brent Russell announced himself.
1 Nov 2009, 10:15 am
its time for J. Smit to retire the fat lady has started her swan song and won’t be letting up till the chandelier glass is broken.
Buys, Wp Nel, W. Du Preez, W. Blaauw, H. Van der Merwe are all superior scrummagers to Smit and J. Du Plessis. Something smells rotten in the land of the front row blind mens academy.
1 Nov 2009, 10:16 am
#29 Skop. Trials are from the dark ages when talent is lacking and experience is low. (Strueli era, current Wallabies). The majority of our starting line-up are professional World Cup winners. Making them play trials would be a slap in the face.
1 Nov 2009, 10:22 am
#28 David: Then I feel sorry for them. They must leave and go play in Europe just wasted sitting here playing some of the best rugby and not getting selected at the highest level.
Mark my words David. Oz then will scout here for our youngsters. They were here during craven week already. Bet they were looking at some of the U21′s yesterday too. Maybe not from here but you never know. We are going to lose many if they don’t start selecting on merit alone.
1 Nov 2009, 10:24 am
ja the wallabies could be the sprinboks part 2
they have already had tiaan rathbone and vickerman and the all blacks had that lock from natal
and now i heard the tahs have signed an under 21 blue bull
1 Nov 2009, 10:31 am
I also support Pdv in spite of some c’ckeyed selections. The biggest one being Rose and Ndungane ahead of Mapoe. For me Mapoe was a certain shoe in, perhaps the most exciting talent we’ve seen emerge out the Cc this year. I would also take Le Grange as the best no.12 on display.
W. Du Preez
T. Liebenberg or A. Strauss
WP Nel
A. Van Zyl
D. Vermeulen
W. Alberts
S. Pretorius
Le Grange
Mapoe
J. Pietersen
Are all superior to some their counterparts in the squad
1 Nov 2009, 10:37 am
#37 and in a trials match these guys would destroy the likes of Beast Ralepelle Smit Kanko Ndungane Rose etc
1 Nov 2009, 10:41 am
#33 skopskiet:
The S14 replaced the trials as a basis for selection. Let’s see how the youngsters go next year before we get our knickers in a twist.
Besides, scrumming isn’t the only criteria for a prop at test level, although it is a prime requisite.
1 Nov 2009, 10:46 am
#39 David: I would of thought scrumming would be the primary requisite of any prop!!!!
1 Nov 2009, 10:47 am
1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Nel
4. Sharpe
5. Horwill
6. Smith
7. Elsom
8. Vermeulen
9. Kockott
10. Giteau
11. Ione
12. Barnes
13. Ashley-Cooper
14. Ludik
15. Shepherd
Hmmm…
1 Nov 2009, 10:51 am
I personally would not have chosen
J Smit at 3…[WP NEL]
Jannie Du Plessis [ Coenie Oosthuisen ]
Maku [ would have had J Smit there ]
F Hougaard [ Mapoe ]
Otherwise lets see how it goes….
Front row is a massive concern…..the 2 strongest front rows in the country have zero represenation.
Go figure.
1 Nov 2009, 10:51 am
#41 puff:
I see you’ve found something to keep yourself entertained with.
1 Nov 2009, 10:52 am
I feel sorry for players who are not selected on merit
because they dont select themselves.I sincerely hope the
games against Ireland and France dont prove a bridge to
far for the Boks,because players like Bakkies were
showing signs of fatigue in the Currie Cup final.
The end of the year tours at the end of a tough season
is always a no win situation for the touring party,because
they are expected to win and if they dont their critics
will write them off as has-been.
1 Nov 2009, 10:57 am
In the Nh the set pieces form the fundamentals of the game still far more than here or in Oz or Nz where open play sets a precedent. Players like Kanko and Rose with their frilly play making show boating wont make any impression on the French or Irish. Also if front row gets dominated in set scrum’s we will get done, no question.
J. Du Plessis and Smit and perhaps even Beast, not to mention Chilli and Maku are going to be going through a baptism of fire up there and I hope these Achilles heels don’t come back to bite us big time on this impending Eoyt.
1 Nov 2009, 10:58 am
#35 Puma:
I agree that the Aussies have been scouting our youngsters. Unfortunately, because of their paucity of depth, they can offer these kids a fast track to the S14, and then the Wobblies after 3 years. I suppose it’s not much different to any aggressive immigration policy where you need specific skills.
1 Nov 2009, 11:01 am
Essentially, PDV is saying he knows what he has in the likes of:
Adrian Strauss
Tiaan Liebenberg
Jean Deyzel
Duane Vermeulen
etc.
which is why he’s taking guys like Johnson (personally, I’m looking forward to watching him play), Maku and Raubenheimer.
But his logic is flawed.
Surely he knows what he has in Earl Rose too?
Wouldn’t it make sense to take Burton Francis in Rose’s place?
Francis was going to start for the Emerging Boks against the Lions but got injured, so PDV actually hasn’t seen him perform at a higher level.
Adams surely is a stop-gap until Vermaak is fit again.
I truly wouldn’t be surprised to see Rory Kockott heading over to Oz.
He has been ignored by PDV when on form, and he now looks to be dropping down the pecking order at the Sharks.
PDV knows what he has in Ndungane too.
While I rate the player, I don’t think he’s been at his best.
Mapoe should tour in his place.
1 Nov 2009, 11:02 am
They should do away with this large tour group thing. It is obvious which players are going to play and which are nowhere near international calibre. And its not just a race thing, its also old favourites from junior level getting selected over true international quality. Why are Potgieter and Hargreaves going on tour and lets face I know he’s had a good season and all, but honestly do you see Viljoen ever playing for the boks?
The back-up squad is a joke. It seems like PdV doesn’t want to put pressure on his chosen 22 by actually picking international quality players.
P.S. Grant10 you’re a joke, Habanna and Larkham might not agree with you.
1 Nov 2009, 11:03 am
interesting thing about wp nel… according to supersport during the rugby yesterday he only weighs 92kg!!!!!! they keep putting up these made up farkin weights for the players. please tell me somebody else gets irritated by this? how can they get it so wrong? and they say bakkies is 4kg lighter than matfield!
somebody please tell me how i can get a message to supersport and complain about this incompetence? according to yesterday’s coverage only 3 of the front rowers (out of 6) were over 100kg! WTF??????!!!!!
1 Nov 2009, 11:05 am
#47 puff:
Ndungane is an experienced Bok regular, which is why he’s there for the games against France and Ireland.
I would love to see Kocket playing for an Aussie S14 and national side. He’d be worth a fortune to us in penalties and yellows.
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