Selections highlight flawed system
1 Nov 2009
Several tour selections reiterate a sad truth that Peter de Villiers and the Currie Cup coaches aren’t on the same wavelength.
De Villiers has defended the selection of Earl Rose time and again, choosing to ignore the player’s inconsistent offerings in the Super 14 and Currie Cup. He’s rather blamed the Lions’ coaching staff for not giving Rose more opportunities at flyhalf, where De Villiers feels Rose is best.
Chiliboy Ralepelle will tour with the Springboks this November despite playing understudy – when he was fit – to Derick Kuun for the better part of 2009. Bandise Maku is one behind Ralepelle in the Bulls’ hooker queue, but bizarrely has also made De Villiers’ 37-man touring party.
Adriaan Strauss and Tiaan Liebenberg have enjoyed fantastic seasons for the Cheetahs and WP respectively, and have also been involved with the Boks before. It would have made more sense to take these players on tour, as they wouldn’t let the Boks down if Bismarck du Plessis succumbed to injury.
For De Villiers to say Maku has made the touring squad on merit is an interesting statement, as it suggests neither form nor game time in the domestic and Super 14 tournaments are pre-requisites for national selection. Maku is talented and deserves to play at Super 14 and Currie Cup level, but what has he done in those tournaments to deserve elevation to the national squad?
Maku’s selection may be justified if there weren’t other players performing, but that just isn’t the case. It could be justified if Liebenberg (27) and Strauss (23) were on the wrong side of 30, but that isn’t the case either.
Rose is the classic example of a De Villiers favourite keeping a more deserving candidate out of the national set-up. There are other backline players that deserved to tour, WP’s Peter Grant as well as the Cheetahs’ Lionel Mapoe just two that come to mind. In the case of Grant, the tour would provide an alternative flyhalf the opportunity to gain game time so that if Morne Steyn broke down, he would slot in seamlessly. In the case of Mapoe, it would provide an up-and-coming youngster the opportunity to take the next step. Unlike Maku and Rose, Mapoe has earned the right to be there through his consistent performances in the Currie Cup.
There are other players that will feel frustrated. WP flanks Duane Vermeulen and Francois Louw have been outstanding this season, as has Province loosehead Wicus Blaauw. The young flankers would have benefited immensely from a tour experience, but instead De Villiers has opted for Griquas’ Davon Raubenheimer. Instead of Blaauw or other impressive young props like WP Nel and Coenie Oosthuizen, De Villiers has gone for Gurthro Steenkamp, a player that was embarrassed at scrum time in the Currie Cup final.
The decision to take a perfectly good loosehead in Heinke van der Merwe and switch him to tighthead is also ludicrous. Why not give this promising player from the Cheetahs a go? If Os du Randt feels Nel is national prospect, why aren’t the national selectors taking that suggestion to heart?
It’s hard to have faith in De Villiers’ masterplan to defend the Boks’ world title when it’s clear his view differs from that of the Currie Cup coaches. When Ruan Pienaar went back to the Sharks, they played him at No 9, even though De Villiers wants him to get game time at 10 and 15. The Lions prefer to use Rose at fullback or off the bench, while Ralepelle and Maku are regular bench warmers at the Bulls. One way or another, it’s not a healthy situation for Springbok rugby.
De Villiers and the respective coaches need to iron out their communication problems and work toward a common goal. It’s no use to the Boks if a South African side wins the Super 14 or Currie Cup without the starting players De Villiers plans to utilise at Test level.
By Jon Cardinelli
503 Comments
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1 Nov 2009, 22:20 pm
Cheers all.
Enjoy the rest of your evening.
Blogged far too much today. Going to shower and off to bed
Once again well done Bulls.
1 Nov 2009, 22:21 pm
mwahhhhh night carol tc hun hagw 2
1 Nov 2009, 22:21 pm
#445 carol:
That is her, she is a 10/10, a blonde, much better and fresher than Pammy or Tasmin.
Her husband is not in Kelly’s class though, not even close.
She used to go out with Greame Smith (SA cricket captain) and according to the sunday papers she might be heading back to him.
1 Nov 2009, 22:21 pm
tc bro catch you 2morrow
1 Nov 2009, 22:21 pm
#448 Robzim: Bulls loss is your gain…..!!
I owe you a mail…..till later, have a good week too!!
1 Nov 2009, 22:23 pm
#455 carol:
See u.
1 Nov 2009, 22:27 pm
poor selections were taking both Chili and Maku ahead of Strauss or Liebenberg, one of them would have been enough.
J. Dup ahead of Wp Nel
Roussouw ahead of Alberts
Kanko ahead of Vermeulen
Bosman ahead of Le Grange or Grant
Nokwe or Ndungane ahead of Mapoe
Rose ahead of J. Pietersen
Johnson, Hargreaves, Raubenheimer, Adams, Viljoen are all fine.
1 Nov 2009, 22:30 pm
#441 David: Tigers are already missing 19 players to injury, not sure who they can rest as there is no one available, but Billy Twelvetrees, Toby Flood and Sam Vesty might well be available. I reckon Saracens might rest their English players and put out a full strength Saffacens side.
1 Nov 2009, 22:32 pm
#458 Big Hit: hiyas BH mate ^5
how did F steyn play the weekend?
1 Nov 2009, 22:33 pm
#450 skopskiet:
Viljoen and Potgieter are the only ones competing for a place in the WC squad out of the uncapped players, as far as I can see, as those positions are still up for grabs.
Heini is there as the logical backup for FduP as he’s played with Morne and Spies, and should not be considered a long term option. Also in his favour is his colour without detracting from his abilities. PdeV’s just lucky there.
Bosman fills a position that we’re woefully weak in and has the ability to cover 10 as well, so I can’t understand all the moaning about the squad for the matches that matter.
1 Nov 2009, 22:36 pm
#457 skopskiet: coaches didn’t change much for the EOYT last year either, continuity is clearly a big thing for them and given their results it can’t really be argued with.
There are risks pursuing that strategy of course, the side can become too old and start to falter with no back-up ready and some of the young stars who are overlooked might feel they’d get a better deal in Europe.You can make a talented test side from the guys left behind.
1 Nov 2009, 22:39 pm
Maku = Quota Selection – end of story. Why can’t he stop bullshit us and just be honest and say the politicians have him by the balls and he will lose his job if he don’t select them.
1 Nov 2009, 22:40 pm
and Viljoen is a Pawn…
1 Nov 2009, 22:41 pm
they think the public is stupid…well 99% are but that’s another story for another day. In selecting Viljoen they try to win the “white vote” but Viljoen is just gonna be used…
1 Nov 2009, 22:42 pm
#459 sharks_lover: hi sl, I didn’t see the Racing/Toulouse highlights but someone on here said he had a top game, not surprising as everyone knows he quality. Can see the coach’s logic in not selecting the Euro-based players though.
1 Nov 2009, 22:43 pm
#457 skopskiet:
I think Meyer Bosman had a good game on Saturday and is a good playmaker.
Johnson had one good game against the Sharks – in the final he appeared to be out of his league (they substituted him very early)
I cannot see why Hargreaves made the team ahead of Sykes and a few others
And Raubenheimer?- what did he do during the season? – he was never hardly ever mentioned?
Anyway, these guys will only play against the Saracens and Tigers’ second teams, so what the hell?
1 Nov 2009, 22:44 pm
#457 skopskiet: So what you’re suggesting is that PdeV drops some of his current squad players in favour of new ones for the games against France and Ireland. I’d also like to see some of those players in the mix in future, but it’s obvious that he wants to win those games and cause as little disruption as possible.
1 Nov 2009, 22:47 pm
#464 Ned:
I suggest you go back to supporting netball, or whatever game it is that you know something about.
1 Nov 2009, 22:49 pm
you talk sh’t ned fool, Viljoen is best fb in the country far better than Kirchner or Pienaar or Terblanche, second only to F. Steyn on current attributes.
Maku is probably better than Chili but Chili has too much invested in him to give up on him. If it were me I’d probably leave Chili behind.
The quota player is actually Jan Dup
Weakest link in the whole squad, Kanko not too far behind.
1 Nov 2009, 22:51 pm
#464 Ned:
Just relax, man.
1 Nov 2009, 23:02 pm
Pdv knows these players far better than we do because he coached them at u21 so he’s in a better position to know their capabilities than we do. I don’t know Raubenheimer’s ability at all but I.m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Those I do know their capabilities like J. Dup, Kanko, Roussouw, Rose, Ndungane, Bosman, I rather swap for WP Nel, Vermeulen, Alberts, J. Pietersen, Mapoe, Le Grange or Grant.
Hargreaves, Johnson, Raubenheimer, Adams I.m happy to give benefit of doubt to.
Viljoen I know is class, so too Potgieter.
Adams will need make way for Pretorius or Hougaard in time to come.
1 Nov 2009, 23:03 pm
#458 Big Hit:
“Billy Twelvetrees,”
Interesting surname. Do you maybe know whether there is a story behind it?
1 Nov 2009, 23:05 pm
#472 nama1:
Sounds like another Tiger Woods, to me.
1 Nov 2009, 23:07 pm
Anyway guys, Good night, the die has been cast and we just need to see how it plays out.
1 Nov 2009, 23:14 pm
#472 nama1: no story, but his nickname is ’36′ given to him by the Irishman Geordan Murphy, see if you can work out why.
He looks a great prospect, just 20 and looks more of a surfer than a rugby player. Came on for his debut against Ospreys and rescued a 32 all draw for Tigers. Will likely play for England in time.
1 Nov 2009, 23:16 pm
#473 David:
LOL David. Good night. Over and out.
1 Nov 2009, 23:17 pm
So long
Rob to me Bosman has always flattered to deceive he’s quite big and strong but lacks vision and usually dies with the ball. The one time on Saturday he took it up in Bulls 22 got isolated, turned over and Bulls scored their third try directly from stealing Cheetah’s positional and possession dominance in first quarter. Bosman is not a world class center and doubt ever will be, Le Grange on the other hand has all the makings, so too De Jongh and Jacobs on a good day. Not Bosman he’s selfish and dies with the ball far too often, a poor mans Jdv.
1 Nov 2009, 23:22 pm
Why the big fuss about PDV’s choices? Jake chose Frans Steyn before he was a regular choice in Natal, he chose Albert vd Bergh when he was an irregular bench warmer, Bobby was a second league centre in London, he preferred Danie Coetzee while Botha was no 1 in Pretoria, he chose Schalk Burger when the Stormers did not consider him good enough, he brought Habanna and Januarie from nowhere, he took Ashwin Willemse and Wayne Julies to the World Cup when they were not regulars in their provinces, he made centre Meyer Bosman a Springbok when he hardly played flyhalf. The list goes on. And to go a little back. Harry Viljoen chose Jantjes and Big Joe before they play provincial. Frik du Preez became a Bok on a tour to the UK and France before he was a regular in NTvl, Dawie Snyman and Mike Lawless played second fiddle to Jannie Barnard, Tommy Gentles to **** Lockyear, Clive Ulyatte to Natie Rens, Toni Roux to Mauritz Neuhoff, Gert Kotze to Hannes Marais. Do not forget Kitch with Gavin Johnson (a carbon copy of Rose), Rob Brink, Chris Rossouw, Balie Swart on Tighthead.
And what about the undeserving whites in the present team? Danie Rossouw will again sub for the loosies while he is behind at least four in Pretoria (worst than Maku), Van der Merwe was out since April and what did Hougaardt do to deserve the green and gold? – also no 3 as scrum half and a mediocre wing.
Come on Keo, if you want to moan, at least be consistent.
1 Nov 2009, 23:26 pm
I would say that although I was a PDV doubter 2 years ago, he seems to have delivered.
I will pass comment on this squad after the tour. I would not have picked some of the players, but hell, I am not coach.
Whatever the outcome, I want the Boks to win, and as always, I will support them.
1 Nov 2009, 23:44 pm
#463 Ned: lol…and what is jannie dup? allister who? Why is bandise’s selection the only one vexing to you?
2 Nov 2009, 01:20 am
#114 Valkyrie: Exactly how many chances has Kanko been given? He hasn’t even been allowed to start a game yet for the Boks let alone play for more than 20 minutes! Olivier again, got one start (yes he was pathetic in that match) and barely featured in the Tri-nations along with Kanko so I don’t know how you can say that.
They are fringe players at best – Spies has been given far more chances than them and he is yet to live up to his hype so why don’t you start looking at the incumbents before taking potshots at the dirt trackers?
2 Nov 2009, 01:34 am
#469 skopskiet: Picking on the Sharks players again I see…that is an absolute joke. So you’d rather Earl “oh my god I don’t what the fck to do” Rose in the squad over JdP who at least is a tighthead? Sorry but how can anyone take you seriously after that comment.
Also how is having Kanko any different than having Spies there? Spies is yet to deliver on his big hype and Kanko hasnt been allowed to play more than 20 mins each time so how exactly can we pass judgement on his ability when he’s only brought on once the game has been won? What is it about the Sharks you hate so much?
Weak links in the squad are:
ROSE
Chili boy
Heinke – hasn’t played in an age
Kirchner – not convinced he has sufficient BMT
Nokwe – ridiculously fast but poor in defence
No hard nut flanker like Deysel or Vermuelen to replace Juan Smith
This team on a highway to a hiding and Ireland are going to tear us a new *******. They will be baying for our blood and without a hard nut 7 Ferris will walk all over us. I just pray Ashley Johnson is up to the task.
2 Nov 2009, 01:36 am
#482 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: I forgot to add Spies to that list of weaklinks – I wonder how many times we’ll see him to knock on at the back of the scrum and cost us an essential attacking platform?
2 Nov 2009, 01:37 am
#463 Ned: but not a Prawn?
2 Nov 2009, 01:40 am
#483 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: Also forgot Ndungane – poor hands.
2 Nov 2009, 03:35 am
#478 Namibianmaverick: Spot on. All teams have a few “surprises.” Piet Snor is the coach and have the right to success or fail. Go Bokke.
2 Nov 2009, 03:50 am
Hows it going all. First time posting here and I must say its a very good well informed blog. I have seen various posts here and elsewhere(and articles mainly in NH) saying France and Ireland will give SA a good game, some suggesting they will both beat SA. It puzzles me to be honest. I’m Irish and as much as I would absolutely love to see us win in Croke Park against the top 15 SA team, I honestly think its an extremely low probability. We won in 2004 and 2006 but this SA team are in a different league right now to everyone else and Ireland are nowhere near their standard, particularly with the very poor form of Munster and to a lesser extent Leinster. I watch a tonne of rugby both NH and SH and love almost all of it and I have to say that the performances in the Currie Cup by all the semifinalists have been by far and away head and shoulders above anything I have seen in Air NZ cup, magners, H-cup, premiership or Top 14 in France so far this year. I think France have a better shot at SA as we all know that on their day France are capable of playing unbelievable rugby. There is the small matter of Declan Kidney being able to weave magic in Ireland’s favor so I will cling to that for now. Looking forward to it in any case.
2 Nov 2009, 06:15 am
#482 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke:
So you think that Schalk at 7 is a softie?
2 Nov 2009, 06:20 am
#478 Namibianmaverick:
Danie is the backup for Bakkies. When did you miss that?
2 Nov 2009, 06:29 am
Crouchety reading with his A hole again. Where I say I’d rather have Rose over Jdp in squad? You got some seriously deluded blinkers covering your eyes.
If you look properly and closely I said:
I rather have Wp Nel over Jdp.
Would leave one of Maku or Chili behind and take Liebenberg or Strauss.
Would leave Roussouw out for Alberts.
Have Vermeulen ahead of Kanko.
Take Mapoe ahead of Ndungane or Nokwe.
Take Joe Pietersen ahead of Rose.
Thats what I said not wtf you thought I said, next time open your eyes and your brain. I also said biggest quota in the team is Jannie Dup and Kanko not too far behind. And thank the Lord they left useless Muller out at last and taken some potential in Hargreaves instead.
2 Nov 2009, 07:13 am
#482 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: for goodness’ sake crouchy give it a rest! What is with the wounded animal attitude all the time? Get over skopkiet, you’re making his assertions about you sound like they may have some truth to them.
2 Nov 2009, 07:53 am
#475 Big Hit:
12 x 3 = 36, I suppose.
Post 478: Yeah… some would have us believe that the Bok teams/squads of the past were always solely picked on merit… without some coaches favourite… you forgot to mention Markgraaf taking his drinking buddy on tour Theo Oosthuizen, not so?
#482 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke:
Did you actually read the man’s posts. See 457.
2 Nov 2009, 08:22 am
that is because mr PdV doesn’t select on merit and if they had played as 1st choice where would those provinces be? the provinces play merit based players and the springboks are turning into a big “white elephant” with all these players that may have talent but cant cut a 1st choice starting bearth regulary
2 Nov 2009, 08:39 am
#493 Dunx:
PdeV has done what the NZRU does every year when they draft young players into a franchise where they’ll get game time at a higher level and the selectors can monitor their progress. SARU don’t have this power, so PdeV has done the next best thing and included them for midweek games against decent club sides in the NH.
2 Nov 2009, 09:15 am
Hold onto your panties people.
Our ‘A’ side will be exactly the same as the one that won the Tri Nations & beat the British & Irish Lions bar Frans Steyn & JDV and Juan Smith.
Think about it. Our dirt trackers will be our A side bench plus the others. Something like…
1. Gurthro Steenkamp
2. Chilliboy Ralepele
3. Jannie Du Plessis
4. Danie Rossouw
5. Andries Bekker
6. Devon Raubenheimer
7. Dewald Potgeiter
8. Ryan Kankowski
9. Frans Hougaard
10. Ruan Pienaar (Or if Ruan plays 15 for the A’s then Meyer Bosman)
11. Jongi Nokwe
12. Adi Jacobs
13. Juan De Jongh
14. Odwa Ndungane
15. Zane Kirchner
16. Bandise Maku
17. Heinke Van der Merve
18. Ashley Johnson
19. Heini Adams
20. Riaan Viljoen
21. Alaister Hargreaves
22. Meyer Bosman
23. Earl Rose
That’s a damn good side.
Not sure why they persist with Nokwe and Rose. I would go for Mapoe and Burton Francis over those two anyday and you still have your ‘quota’.
2 Nov 2009, 09:36 am
I posted this in an old dead thread:
The inclusion of Rose is still the most perplexing choice. No matter how talented he is, he has shown time and again that he does not step up to the plate in the big games when it really counts.
Time and again he has been thrown in at the deep end with the hope that he will swim and time and again he has failed.
If he is to have a future in SA rugby I would say that he rather has to drop down to a smaller union like Griekwas where the pressure is less and he can build some confidence.
Heinke is also a weird choice. He hasn’t played any rugby since April and according to reports here on Keo, he was only going to start playing again in next year’s S14. Even weirder is the fact that JC calls Heinke a “good selection”. In my mind there are many props who played well in the CC and deserved a call-up ahead of him.
Isn’t it about time we give someone else a chance ahead of the Ndungane brothers? They have served SA well as solid second stringers, but there is so much exciting young talent on the wing to choose from.
The one glaring omission is Adriaan Strauss. When he got his chance in a Bok jersey last year through the injury of the top three or four hookers he grabbed it with both hands. Since then he played brilliantly for the Cheetahs and has shown himself as a great leader as well.
2 Nov 2009, 09:49 am
#494 David:
With the exception of Jacobs, PdV didn’t pick passangers this season when tough, decided tests were on the line!
Jacobs was dumped at half time of the 2nd Lions’ Test and Jaques Fourie came on to win the series
On the 3rd Test there were 4 passangers in the Boks line up and the Boks lost that Test, but the series already had been won.
In Brisbane, PdV brought on 3 passangers and packed the banch with few more, result: Test was lost.
But it had no effect on winning the Tri Nation 2009, the ABs were extremly dysfunctional this year, they lost their lineouts and their backs dropped 14 balls per test on average, Ndungane helped the ABs cause in the 3rd (and last) Test but the Boks with Styen’s 60m kicks won it nevertheless!
2 Nov 2009, 10:12 am
#494 David: But you’re overlooking the glaring difference between SA and NZ – namely, that we have a race quota in SA rugby. It seems illogical to overlook this when analysing team selections. It’s fairly obvious who has benefited from their complexion.
2 Nov 2009, 10:17 am
#497 Hondo:
He hasn’t picked any passengers for the EOY tests either. Apart from Potgieter on the bench and possibly Viljoen against Italy the test squad is unchanged. I suspect that Bosman is only there as a replacement 12 since Jean has left.
2 Nov 2009, 10:40 am
Mr. Cardinelli, time for you to also get with the program. PdV has proven that his master-plan, bizar as it may appear at times, is working. Forget about the odd “controversial” selections, think future. Any selection from WP is not a longterm prospect as they will inevitabilly move to a glamour European club. Loyalty is not their strongest atribute.
You don’t develop PDI players by bringing them into a squad when you are struggling. You bleed them while you are on top. I would rather have exposed another 2 or 3 in stead of a couple of the guys who are on the wrong side of 30. Whether it is said or not, if Rugby is not seen to be transforming, the politicians will make the decisions for us. Live with it!
We have an opertunity to make rugby the no.1 sport in SA over the next to years. With the PSL and Bafana being in the state it is, many people have already made the switch. The more successful and representative our team is, the better for the future of our beloved game.
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