Selections highlight flawed system
1 Nov 2009
Several tour selections reiterate a sad truth that Peter de Villiers and the Currie Cup coaches aren’t on the same wavelength.
De Villiers has defended the selection of Earl Rose time and again, choosing to ignore the player’s inconsistent offerings in the Super 14 and Currie Cup. He’s rather blamed the Lions’ coaching staff for not giving Rose more opportunities at flyhalf, where De Villiers feels Rose is best.
Chiliboy Ralepelle will tour with the Springboks this November despite playing understudy – when he was fit – to Derick Kuun for the better part of 2009. Bandise Maku is one behind Ralepelle in the Bulls’ hooker queue, but bizarrely has also made De Villiers’ 37-man touring party.
Adriaan Strauss and Tiaan Liebenberg have enjoyed fantastic seasons for the Cheetahs and WP respectively, and have also been involved with the Boks before. It would have made more sense to take these players on tour, as they wouldn’t let the Boks down if Bismarck du Plessis succumbed to injury.
For De Villiers to say Maku has made the touring squad on merit is an interesting statement, as it suggests neither form nor game time in the domestic and Super 14 tournaments are pre-requisites for national selection. Maku is talented and deserves to play at Super 14 and Currie Cup level, but what has he done in those tournaments to deserve elevation to the national squad?
Maku’s selection may be justified if there weren’t other players performing, but that just isn’t the case. It could be justified if Liebenberg (27) and Strauss (23) were on the wrong side of 30, but that isn’t the case either.
Rose is the classic example of a De Villiers favourite keeping a more deserving candidate out of the national set-up. There are other backline players that deserved to tour, WP’s Peter Grant as well as the Cheetahs’ Lionel Mapoe just two that come to mind. In the case of Grant, the tour would provide an alternative flyhalf the opportunity to gain game time so that if Morne Steyn broke down, he would slot in seamlessly. In the case of Mapoe, it would provide an up-and-coming youngster the opportunity to take the next step. Unlike Maku and Rose, Mapoe has earned the right to be there through his consistent performances in the Currie Cup.
There are other players that will feel frustrated. WP flanks Duane Vermeulen and Francois Louw have been outstanding this season, as has Province loosehead Wicus Blaauw. The young flankers would have benefited immensely from a tour experience, but instead De Villiers has opted for Griquas’ Davon Raubenheimer. Instead of Blaauw or other impressive young props like WP Nel and Coenie Oosthuizen, De Villiers has gone for Gurthro Steenkamp, a player that was embarrassed at scrum time in the Currie Cup final.
The decision to take a perfectly good loosehead in Heinke van der Merwe and switch him to tighthead is also ludicrous. Why not give this promising player from the Cheetahs a go? If Os du Randt feels Nel is national prospect, why aren’t the national selectors taking that suggestion to heart?
It’s hard to have faith in De Villiers’ masterplan to defend the Boks’ world title when it’s clear his view differs from that of the Currie Cup coaches. When Ruan Pienaar went back to the Sharks, they played him at No 9, even though De Villiers wants him to get game time at 10 and 15. The Lions prefer to use Rose at fullback or off the bench, while Ralepelle and Maku are regular bench warmers at the Bulls. One way or another, it’s not a healthy situation for Springbok rugby.
De Villiers and the respective coaches need to iron out their communication problems and work toward a common goal. It’s no use to the Boks if a South African side wins the Super 14 or Currie Cup without the starting players De Villiers plans to utilise at Test level.
By Jon Cardinelli
503 Comments
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1 Nov 2009, 11:07 am
#48 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): I am a joke??
A bit like your shark front row.
1 Nov 2009, 11:11 am
The 3 “wise” men have yet again shown a fat middle finger to Tim Noakes and his theories about resting players by selecting every “overplayed” player (mainly Bulls and Sharks who took part in the tri-nations).
According to what was published here last week, Noakes reckons that if these players are not rested the wheels will start falling off very soon (2010 is going to be a nightmare for SA rugby in comparison to 2009). He, in fact, reckons the cracks will already start to show during the EOYT.
We will soon see who is right and who is wrong in this regard.
1 Nov 2009, 11:11 am
#50 David:
Ndungane has six test caps.
I wouldn’t call that very experienced.
However, I do acknowledge that he’s more familiar with the Bok set-up than Mapoe.
But is he more familiar with it than Nokwe?
Anyway, do you really think he’ll make the 22 against France or Ireland?
Only if Habana, Pieterson or Kirchner are injured, surely.
1 Nov 2009, 11:11 am
#49 iamyourfather:
According to the Cheetahs site Nel is 116kg.
The Bulls site also has Victor 8kgs lighter than Bakkies.
1 Nov 2009, 11:12 am
Mtawarira
Du Plessis
Smit
Botha
Matfield
Brussow
Burger
Spies
Du Preez
Steyn
Habana
Jacobs
Fourie
Pieterson
Pienaar
Du Plessis
Ralepelle
Bekker
Rossouw
Adams
Olivier
Kirchner
Surely this will be the first-choice 22 for up north.
Personally, I’d swop Jacobs and Olivier.
1 Nov 2009, 11:14 am
#54 David:
They also stated that Big Vic is 1.98m.
When I’ve always read he’s 2m tall.
1 Nov 2009, 11:16 am
#55 puff:
I reckon Kirchner will start at 15, with Ruan as the backline utility player on the bench.
As for Ndungane, I assume he’s there in case of last minute injury problems to either Habs or JP.
1 Nov 2009, 11:17 am
#56 puff:
When I was in the Navy during national service they credited me with an extra 4 cm’s in height and even got the colour of my eyes wrong.
So these things happen.
1 Nov 2009, 11:17 am
#56 puff:
No one could reach that high to get a proper measurement.
1 Nov 2009, 11:19 am
#58 Robzim:
It must have been the high heels.
1 Nov 2009, 11:20 am
#57 David:
It does make sense to have these Bulls:
Du Preez
Steyn
Olivier
Habana
Kirchner
as first-choice Bok backline players on tour for some good continuity.
With Adams, Pienaar and Jacobs on the bench to open up tired defences when they come on in the second half.
1 Nov 2009, 11:21 am
#51 grant10: You mean our all conquering Springbok frontrow.
#52 Robzim: The cracks have already started to show Rob. The tight-5 in particular need a rest, the Sharks frontrow were terrible and Bakkies is a shadow of himself. Big Vic still going strong, but not as dominant as mid-season.
Its really sad when the players who have performed well all season get ignored. Merit and form, bull.
Tiaan (best hooker in CC)
Deysel (overlooked for Pottie)
WP Nel (a scrumming sensation and definately one for the future)
Locks?? I could name many better than Hargreaves?
Mapoe (best wing in CC)
1 Nov 2009, 11:22 am
Lol! The players stats were horribly wrong yesterday. There is no way Victor is heavier than Bakkies, I doubt JLP is 1.98m tall, he could have played lock then!
1 Nov 2009, 11:26 am
By my calculations there are 5 players who can slot in at scrumhalf. WTF? Is this some kind of joke?
1 Nov 2009, 11:27 am
#63 Lions_Soutie:
I reckon by the time the game started everyone at SuperSport was already pissed.
1 Nov 2009, 11:28 am
Dewalt Potgieter selection is the correct one…he is a class act…in fact i would have him at 7 before Schalk….
But our problems going to be in the scrums….
1 Nov 2009, 11:29 am
#64 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
9 is the new black. You start there and then progress up in number.
1 Nov 2009, 11:30 am
#56 puff:
When he enters the lineout, its more like 3m.
1 Nov 2009, 11:34 am
#66 grant10: Of course you do, you love little Pottie. I think he’s a good player and wouldn’t let down the jersey, but there are at least 4 better loosies who will be watching from the sofa. He’s an SA rugby favourite.
1 Nov 2009, 11:34 am
#62 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
Yeah, Hoskins is insulting the intelligence of the public with his “merit is the only criterion” statement.
I have no faith in this bunch any more.
1 Nov 2009, 11:35 am
Think we all need to remember that this tour, as openly stated, will be about testing new combinations and players. Nothing is set in stone and PDV, unlike Jake, will make corrections if necessary and undoubtedly after the next S14 the squad will begin taking on a different look to the one announced yesterday.
1 Nov 2009, 11:39 am
#69 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
Deyzel is explosive, but too one dimensional at the moment.
He plays like he’s a one-man team.
Potgieter is more well-rounded and is a fantastic utility loosie who can play at 6, 7 or 8.
Plus he has sound leadership qualities which should be developed further.
At this point, I’d have Vermeulen, Frans Louw and Alberts ahead of Deyzel too.
And Ashley Johnson.
1 Nov 2009, 11:40 am
heaven forbid M Steyn get hurt….
1 Nov 2009, 11:41 am
#70 Robzim: Hi Rob….good final yesterday….pity about the result…but M Steyn got ice in the veins….
1 Nov 2009, 11:46 am
#72 puff: Interesting analysis. Deysel’s linking and hands have developed really well this season. Not to mention he made Pottie his ***** whenever they met this season. I had Deysel, Vermuelen, Alberts and Stegman all more deserving than Pottie, Raubenheimer and Johnson.
1 Nov 2009, 11:48 am
Aussie can have Kockott he’s no loss to us. Even Macloed at Sharks better than him. I’m fine with Adams a far better distributor of the ball than Fdp even, but there are others like S. Pretorius and F. Hougaard who are great prospects at scrum half and far better than R. Pienaar at 9 too.
Viljoen at 15 a good call better than Kirchner in all aspects of Fb play.
Only real issue is front row and Rose ahead of Mapoe and back row lacking depth all of a sudden with Burger Spies Brussow as starters and then Johnson Raubenheimer and Kanko as back up.
We will miss the likes of Vermeulen, Alberts, Nel, Du Preez, Blaauw, Liebenberg, Strauss and Mapoe and possibly a better 12 in Le Grange over Olivier or Jacobs.
1 Nov 2009, 11:50 am
#75 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
Deyzel pilfers the ball off the ground well because of his upper body strength.
But he tries to carry the ball up a little too often at the expense of reading the play around him.
Often there’s a better option to take, but he doesn’t seem to have or care about periphery vision and passing/offloading.
Also, his “bash and crash” style has become all too predictable, and more often than not this season, opposition players can see him coming and actually smash him back.
Potgieter may not have more power, but he defs has more skills and a more well rounded game.
1 Nov 2009, 11:52 am
periphery = peripheral
1 Nov 2009, 11:53 am
#75 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): deysel would on done well on the heavy NH fields…as would Duane Vermeulen…W Alberts …
But DEwalt is the most able and skilled to slot in at 6 …7 or 8….
He is being touted as a possible Bok skipper post 2011….and yesterday showed his worth again. To call him Deysels ***** may be a bit of a stretch…..
Too many of the Shatks fans seem to be blinkered by provincialsism.
1 Nov 2009, 11:53 am
#76 skopskiet:
You forgot Pottie in the loosie mix and Bosman at 12, possibly also covering 10 in an emergency.
1 Nov 2009, 11:53 am
How does a guy like Peter Grant not make the squad, I mean he can cover 10 and 12? At least Meyer Bosman is there, he’s had a great season.
1 Nov 2009, 11:54 am
Potgieter is class and can fetch or carry or link way better than 1 dimensional Deysel.
Pottie is a captains arm band in the waiting besides being a younger version of Schalk Burger with a few extra brain cells to boot. He’s little on the light side for a 7 or 8 so would have him at 6 after Brussow. Pottie the perfect bench loose forward far better than Kanko or Roussouw.
1 Nov 2009, 11:55 am
#77 puff:
I agree with you there. Pottie is one of the few loosies in contention that is also a natural ball player.
1 Nov 2009, 12:02 pm
#79 grant10: Dude, provinsionalism has got nothing to do with it, as I said in the beginnig Hargreaves is also only there from junior level performance. Also I said Stegman would’ve made a better choice. How well did he play in the final? Same with Vermuelen and Alberts. But never mind, for somebody who hates the utility player you seem happy to select an inferior player cause he can play 6,7 and 8. Something Deysel could also manage, Vermulen can cover 7 and 8. Stegman specialist 6, Alberts 7 and 8. The fact that Pottie is touted as a future bok just reinforcers my argument. It’ll probably end up happening too.
1 Nov 2009, 12:04 pm
#83 David: He also gets handed off at least once every game. And Stegman is a far superior 6. He’s the only back-up we have for Brussow.
1 Nov 2009, 12:05 pm
Yes David Potgieter is the correct call at versatile loose forward cover but I would have dropped Kanko for Vermeulen and or Alberts. In fact I think I would have taken Alberts and Vermeulen and left Kanko and Roussouw behind.
I also would have taken Le Grange or Grant ahead of Bosman, and obviously Mapoe ahead of Ndungane or Rose.
1 Nov 2009, 12:07 pm
#82 skopskiet: Younger version of Schalk? Dude are you on tic? Pottie is less physical than Heinrich. Schalk at his best, hurts people physically. Not sure Pottie leaves his mark even at CC level. Don’t think Jerry Collins would have been worried.
1 Nov 2009, 12:07 pm
Big losers are Joe Pietersen and Mapoe…..
And W DU PREEZ and WP NEL.
But hell that Coenie Oosthuisen is a scary beast…..monster….what a prospect…..
Hope Heinke converts succesfully to 3….strong as an ox….without doubr the most powerful loosehead in the country….
Baptism of fire at 3 in the N H though…
1 Nov 2009, 12:08 pm
Cant believe Maku and Rose is in the team; MAKU 3rd choice at the bulls and being selected before Derick Kuin and Joe Peterson is 50times beter than cant catch a ball Rose…..ja what that is something the new beter south africa must get use to…….
1 Nov 2009, 12:10 pm
#63 Lions_Soutie:
Correct… seems like ‘quotas’ have extended to the SS stats team… they also had either Nel or Coenie at 94kgs… where Nel in 116kgs… and Coenie a massive 126kgs…
1 Nov 2009, 12:11 pm
well rather full up the quota now then around time of wc 2011?
-potgieter call up? his game yesterday was week in comparison to danie rosouw stegman viljoen-see him as a leader figure and i supose you choose players from wining sides
-tho the gwk flanker is a slap in the face to players like deysel alberts vermulen louw viljoen stegman-id even go as far to say as daniels =P
backs;rian viljoen ?maybe its time to say its sensible to choose players currently in the s14 as they are recognised higher teir players?
hargreeves -proud of my sharkie sjoe-but poor choice -maybe this whole leadership thing i dont know -anyways gives some of those deserved some time to rest -heres hoping that the bulls players are to tired to reach there bench mark in the future haha .congratz bulle
1 Nov 2009, 12:12 pm
I disagree strongly on guthro steenkamp, he is not a quota at all and an absolute bull in the tightloose and one of the biggest reasons the bulls are still competitive, he is fearless and gets stuck into everything, and the scrum contest with WP Nel was a very even one, where he monstered WP on at least one occasion. it was wian du preez who was drukking werner kruger.
raubenheiner over deysel, albers, vermeulen or louw is not a merit selection.
but then again the non-selection of mapoe was mind-boggling.
1 Nov 2009, 12:15 pm
#84 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
#86 skopskiet:
I would have selected Alberts as the perfect backup for the role that Rossouw has played over the years at 7/8 and 4 lock cover.
Roussow is going as the designated backup for Bakkies, so I wouldn’t have left him behind.
I have a feeling that PdeV is more interested in what will happen after 2011 as far as this EOYT midweek games are concerned, rather than the WC. He’s probably got a good idea who his first and second choice players are for that.
As a wing, Mapoe will probably get more experience with ball in hand in the national 7s side, than he will sitting on the bench as cover for Brian or JP.
With no B&IL tour to attract the players, I can see a massive exodus of our senior players after the WC, due to retirement and the lure of the extra pension money.
1 Nov 2009, 12:15 pm
the only thing i would say is give the maestro a break, he;s made some crazy selections before and they have worked bladdy well – who knows, next thing we klap france and ireland too…
1 Nov 2009, 12:17 pm
#84 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Dewalt in my book has all the attributes to be a Bok 8….thats where i would like him to play eventually.
Agree with Steggmann as back up to Brussow.
But feel Dewalt better than Deysel at 7…not saying Deysel is poor…think he is damn good actually.
Yes…you right…i like specialists …especially at 15….10….9….8…..1 and 3….
Hate players being tested out in new positions at tyhe highest levels….criminal in my opinion….
If you want to experiment 2 things must apply in my book
1 The players committed buy in
2 Not at Test level…rather CC …even super 14 a huge ask.
But thats just me…seems most happy to gamble…maybe just my conservative nature when it comes to rugby.
1 Nov 2009, 12:20 pm
Potgieter far better versatile loose forward than Stegman and possibly a better no. 6 fetcher than him too. Kanko is the luxury in the package. Hargreaves a call from out the blue probably a throw back to junior associations with Pdv. I can live with Hargreaves, Raubenheimer, Johnson, Adams, though I’d have made adjustments to include Vermeulen and Alberts ahead of Kanko and Roussouw, and I’d have certainly taken Mapoe and not Rose or Ndungane, probably taken Le Grange or Grant ahead of Bosman.
1 Nov 2009, 12:21 pm
#92 cab: agree….guthro a fine loosehead…did very well yesterday…Wiaan du preez monstered Werner Kruger though!!!
1 Nov 2009, 12:22 pm
btw wynand was dam good yesterday? yes -cant disagree-hes perfectly able to play in jean devilliers place -id like to see him head to wp so u guys can start acknowleging that =D
1 Nov 2009, 12:23 pm
6. potgieter 7. deysel/louw 8. alberts
be a helluva good combination too.
1 Nov 2009, 12:25 pm
That Mapoe a handfull….best prospect wing i have seen since habana burst on the scene….would love to have seen him,Juan de Jongh together…anyway..i am sure its to do with the 7 s contract he has sighned….
Mapoe will be there sooner than later….hell he is a special talent.
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