Selections highlight flawed system
1 Nov 2009
Several tour selections reiterate a sad truth that Peter de Villiers and the Currie Cup coaches aren’t on the same wavelength.
De Villiers has defended the selection of Earl Rose time and again, choosing to ignore the player’s inconsistent offerings in the Super 14 and Currie Cup. He’s rather blamed the Lions’ coaching staff for not giving Rose more opportunities at flyhalf, where De Villiers feels Rose is best.
Chiliboy Ralepelle will tour with the Springboks this November despite playing understudy – when he was fit – to Derick Kuun for the better part of 2009. Bandise Maku is one behind Ralepelle in the Bulls’ hooker queue, but bizarrely has also made De Villiers’ 37-man touring party.
Adriaan Strauss and Tiaan Liebenberg have enjoyed fantastic seasons for the Cheetahs and WP respectively, and have also been involved with the Boks before. It would have made more sense to take these players on tour, as they wouldn’t let the Boks down if Bismarck du Plessis succumbed to injury.
For De Villiers to say Maku has made the touring squad on merit is an interesting statement, as it suggests neither form nor game time in the domestic and Super 14 tournaments are pre-requisites for national selection. Maku is talented and deserves to play at Super 14 and Currie Cup level, but what has he done in those tournaments to deserve elevation to the national squad?
Maku’s selection may be justified if there weren’t other players performing, but that just isn’t the case. It could be justified if Liebenberg (27) and Strauss (23) were on the wrong side of 30, but that isn’t the case either.
Rose is the classic example of a De Villiers favourite keeping a more deserving candidate out of the national set-up. There are other backline players that deserved to tour, WP’s Peter Grant as well as the Cheetahs’ Lionel Mapoe just two that come to mind. In the case of Grant, the tour would provide an alternative flyhalf the opportunity to gain game time so that if Morne Steyn broke down, he would slot in seamlessly. In the case of Mapoe, it would provide an up-and-coming youngster the opportunity to take the next step. Unlike Maku and Rose, Mapoe has earned the right to be there through his consistent performances in the Currie Cup.
There are other players that will feel frustrated. WP flanks Duane Vermeulen and Francois Louw have been outstanding this season, as has Province loosehead Wicus Blaauw. The young flankers would have benefited immensely from a tour experience, but instead De Villiers has opted for Griquas’ Davon Raubenheimer. Instead of Blaauw or other impressive young props like WP Nel and Coenie Oosthuizen, De Villiers has gone for Gurthro Steenkamp, a player that was embarrassed at scrum time in the Currie Cup final.
The decision to take a perfectly good loosehead in Heinke van der Merwe and switch him to tighthead is also ludicrous. Why not give this promising player from the Cheetahs a go? If Os du Randt feels Nel is national prospect, why aren’t the national selectors taking that suggestion to heart?
It’s hard to have faith in De Villiers’ masterplan to defend the Boks’ world title when it’s clear his view differs from that of the Currie Cup coaches. When Ruan Pienaar went back to the Sharks, they played him at No 9, even though De Villiers wants him to get game time at 10 and 15. The Lions prefer to use Rose at fullback or off the bench, while Ralepelle and Maku are regular bench warmers at the Bulls. One way or another, it’s not a healthy situation for Springbok rugby.
De Villiers and the respective coaches need to iron out their communication problems and work toward a common goal. It’s no use to the Boks if a South African side wins the Super 14 or Currie Cup without the starting players De Villiers plans to utilise at Test level.
By Jon Cardinelli
503 Comments
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 » Show All
1 Nov 2009, 13:08 pm
#148 WP_: I was too WP. What a pity those players never got a chance. They all proved they are Bok material.
Some selections just are crazy.
1 Nov 2009, 13:09 pm
#144 grant10:
so how come the Bulls are the best side in the world with their underpowered scrum if it is so important?
1 Nov 2009, 13:10 pm
#150 grant10: Well I read it somewhere awhile back. I think somehow it will be D. Potgieter. Going to be a great Captain one day. A born leader like John. Impressed me in the E. Boks side.
1 Nov 2009, 13:11 pm
the sharks fans were rubbing it in about their return of their springboks but at the end of the day the majority of them were nothing but a bunch of quotas and overrated players!ffs jannie’cant scrum’du plessis still in every squad,he is more suited to playing with women than a rugby ball.
1 Nov 2009, 13:12 pm
Shut up skop. Take off you’re quota tinted glasses and see the squad for what it is. A poor representation of the best players in the country. Sad
1 Nov 2009, 13:14 pm
u get stuck on something like a broken record and u forget to see the wood from the trees – if wp, the cheetahs and the lions have got such great scrums and its so all-important – wtf they always get the wooden spoon?
1 Nov 2009, 13:14 pm
#152 cab: imagine how much better they would be with a dominant scrum Cab?
And imagine Brussow and Spies flying off the back of a scrum going forward or holding its own?
I dont believe we can / should compromise cab….especially at 3…
1 Nov 2009, 13:15 pm
#156 cab: okay cab…i gotta run….
Weak front rows the answer it seems…
Outta here all…
1 Nov 2009, 13:17 pm
#157 grant10:
but you miss my point, which is would they be, since its a tradeoff between scrumming and mobility – perhaps they have some rock in the scrums but prefer the mobbility of steenkamp – and i can tell you right now it is bakkies and gurthro that are key to the bulls success.
1 Nov 2009, 13:27 pm
Cheers Cabbie. I am out of here now. Hope its a nice day there in lovely Paris.
1 Nov 2009, 13:29 pm
#159 cab: Okay …gotta run but last comment cab….
I feel the 1 and 2 at boks are cery good in the tightloose…beast and bissy. I also see them as being no more than average come scrum time.
The luxury of having another fantastic tight loose player as a 3…which most teams build there scrums around…is…to me…a luxury and too high a risk. I know i am pedantic about this…but it appears …to me anyway…to be negatively impacting on Spies in particular.
And at the sharks Kanko is bearing the brunt.
I am not anti Smit at all….he is a legend and i have the greatest respect for what he has sacrificied for bok and indeed world rugby…..
However i believe if we want him at 2011 he needs to either revert to 2…in which case Bissy is sacrificed….or off the bench as per your option….
I would go with off the bench.
Off to mates…cheers
By the way the mates and i will debate this too….
1 Nov 2009, 13:30 pm
#160 Puma:
cheers, nah its kak over here, am sure much nicer where u are.
1 Nov 2009, 13:52 pm
“It’s hard to have faith in De Villiers’ masterplan to defend the Boks’ world title when it’s clear his view differs from that of the Currie Cup coaches.”
are we seriously back to this again? so we can completely ignore what he has achieved this year because you don’t agree with his squad selection. baw
1 Nov 2009, 14:13 pm
#119 skunk: u said it!
thats the problem in this country when it comes to the actual rugby supporters
1 Nov 2009, 14:15 pm
#129 skopskiet: i think most knowledgeable rugby fans stop listening to comments that start with dropping the captain
why fix whats nt broke, 1st person u pick is ur captain, then ur kicker, then move on…when will okes grasp this concept???
1 Nov 2009, 14:30 pm
#115 cab: Well if youre talking starting front row I would say why not Heink at 1 instead of Gurthro? If youre looking for impact loose forwardish type play Beast is as good as Gurthro. But come srum time Heinke would be formidable in a front row with Bismarck and WP Nel
1 Nov 2009, 14:37 pm
I’m genuinely suprised that Hilton Lobberts and Kabamba Floors didnt make that squad!
They would be in line with PdV’s ridiculous and outrageous selections.
1 Nov 2009, 14:45 pm
am indifferent abt sum of d bok selections bt overall squad is on the money.
rose should be nowhere near squad,talented he is bt not bok quality.Maku and Hargreaves hav huge upsides ability wise bt wud hav pickd Strauss,F.vd Merwe.griquas duo of Raubenheimer,Viljoen have bn superb-anyone who watchd CC will concur.Raubenheimer is a true blindside with speed,skill set,workrate.only downside is he is a lil on da lightside.Plays exactly like AB Adam Thompson.Viljoen is conventional 15 with a boot that matches Frans Steyn.can drop frm 60m out.Heinie Adams good replacement 4 Ricky plus Vermaak is injured.Kockott out of form,Duvenage stil greenhorn.so makes sense.
Heinkie at 3 is a move that many on this blog hav bn askin 4,plus Pdiv has coachd da man-is actually built more like a tighthead than loosehead.calculated risk.unl ucky WP nel.Bosman selection is consistent bt he is at best avg.played wel in flnal though.
Biggest shock 4 me is no Mapoe.he in my view shud b a certainty ahead of both Odwa/Jongi even.
1 Nov 2009, 14:54 pm
Yeah Mishini on the money most those observations
From the back Viljoen deserve the call up best 15 in country with a boot to match F. Steyn.
Adams long past due recognition great service and ability at 9
Bosman a mediocre option and Mapoe should definitely have got the nod over one of Rose Odwa or Nokwe
Front row is where we going to get hurt worst of all thats where they missed a trick. Maybe Heinke solves the issue but J. Dup should never have gone.
1 Nov 2009, 14:54 pm
go pdv!
1 Nov 2009, 15:00 pm
After having time to give the selections some thought, it’s fairly obvious that PdeV is treating the midweek games as a way of looking at young players who have little S14 exposure and probably won’t next year either, as a way of identifying future prospects post WC 2011.
Let’s face it, neither Leicester nor Saracens are going to risk their top players in the middle of the season for a match like this, so there’s very little at stake.
Seen in this light, players like Vermeulen, Alberts, Stegman etc. who’s talents are already known, wouldn’t have shown PdeV more than he already knows about them.
Of the others, Heini makes sense as backup for FduP as he’s played with Morne on numerous occassions and risking another 9,10 combo in the main games would have been too much of a gamble, considering the short preparation period.
Viljoen, in retrospect, is an inspired replacement for Frans. He’s got an enormous boot and is second only to Frans with the long range goal attempts. He’s also a very solid player.
All in all, the fringe selections make sense as the S14 will provide the real testing ground,for the players not chosen, to claim a place in the WC squad.
The mistake we’re making is to think that the new caps have replaced more established contenders as prospects for the 2011 WC squad.
1 Nov 2009, 15:04 pm
#171 David: Yes…you are correct David….this is not about the next best Bok team really….a Bok B if you like…..
I reckon a couple of ‘dirttrackers’ may come home with enhanced reputations….
Keen to see what 15 will start 1 st test…not sure that they may not be a surprise or 2 there.
1 Nov 2009, 15:06 pm
#163 AndrewBK: So we cant say anything against someone just based on their past achievements?
I think his current selections stink. Alistair Hargreaves in my opinion is a good player but ahead of Sykes?? Is he just checking out possibles or is he grooming people he know can step up? Because in that case why doesnt he pick Jacques Lombaard for example? And where does Anton van Zyl who had a stonker of a Currie Cup stand then?
Chilliboy AND Bandhise Maku? Why in hell would you pick 3 hookers when 2 are non starters for their teams? Does PDV know something the Bulls management dont? Is PDV more sucessful than the Bulls have been this year? And where does that leave outstanding players like Adriaan Strauss and Tiaan Liebenberg? BTW I like Bandhise Make myself as a player but is he really better than Strauss and Liebenberg? I dont think so.
Heinke as a TH????? Why the hell would you do that when you have a rising star such as WP Nel who has been phenomenal this year. I am very glad Heinke is in the team but surely he would have provided us a nice different option at LH where we already have 2 players in the same mould (not great scrummagers but good in the loose).
Why pick Jannie du Plessis ahead of players such as WP Nel and Coenie Oosthuizen when you are converting Heinke into a TH? For the experience? Well I reckon WP Nel would put Jannie on his butt any day experience or not.
Davon Raubenheimer?? I reckon he did great this season but reallyy??? Is he better than Duane Vermeulen and Jean Deysel? OK so you want to check out new blood… so when are we going to see Jean Deysel take the step up he deserves? Come next Tri Nations it´ll be back to the old standard Juan Smith, Danie Rossouw, Schalk Burger bunch again… so what have we learnt? That Davon needs another few years to make the step up? We loose the opportunity to see players such as Deysel and Vermeulen in the cauldron and how they handle thats what.
Only selections I agree with in the forward pack are Heinke (but not at TH and I´m really not sure he´s ready for action after such a long layoff and absolutely no rugby) and Ashley Johnson – but in his case again … does he deserve the spot more than Willem Alberts? Also Dewaldt Potgieter who is everywhere.
Odwa Ndungane?????? I think we have enough new excellent talent coming through the ranks to give old Odwa a rest now. He´s a good workhorse but i´m afraid he´s no game breaker or class finisher. Why not blood Mapoe? What about the talents of Juries, Mvovo who I thought was very exciting this year, or Gio Aplon who has proved that his size doesnt matter and who has enough speed to seriously burn most players. Talk about game breaker and finisher. He has impressed me immensely and especially with his all round game. Gimme a break – Odwa Ndungane pfft.
Earl Rose??? Ahh what can you say. He just wont leave it alone. Where is he going to play? FH FB? We already have a player of weak confidence in the team in the form of Ruaan Pienaar. Do we really need another? Why not give Peter Grant hsi rightful opportunity as a backup to Morne Steyn. Why not blood someone with some talent such as Burton Francis? This is possibly the most pathetic selection of the lot.
Heini Adams?? Ja well no fine. He´s been great make no mistake, but we have cover in the form of Pienaar and Houghaard, so we can risk something more avant garde here. Why not Sarel Pretorius who though diminutive has proven he is a game breaker time and again. He has been the outstanding scrumhalf of the comp and yet he´s nowhere. Based on merit? Yeah right! Any poll of best Scrumhalf for CUrrie Cup 2009 would come up with the same result Sarel Pretorius.
Rickie´s axing is the only welcome non selection here. Wish he would do the same with Adi JAcobs
Meyer %&$ Bosman…. now really. Do we not have any other talent at centre? Meyer is average most days and makes more stuff ups than the Department of Home Affairs. If youre looking for a 12 why not play someone who was solid the whole Currie Cup like Barry Geel, or slot Francois Houghaard in there who in my opinion is an excellent prospect at centre.
With Steyn and de Villiers were a bit thin on cover for 12 and if it wasnt for injury I would even try Ebersohn there. If you want beef then why not Riaan Swanepoel.
Juan de Jongh and Francois Houghaard I think are excellent choices at least and possibly the best selection decisions of the lot. Houghaard reminds me of Quade Cooper from Oz and has some sublime stepping abilities – he´s wasted at scrumhalf.
Ditto Zane Kirchner – he is one of our better fullbacks and deserves more time there in a Bok setup.
And finally Riaan Viljoen … no doubt he deserves a special mention and has a bright future ahead but I think its a tad premature to have him in there ahead of the World Cup with excellent and overlook Stefan Terblanche at home. Terblanche shows no signs of letting up and he´s fitter than most. He deserves a place in the Bok squad for the World Cup instead of pissing about with Ruan Pienaar. Adn if we want to talk form fullback… then what happened to Joe Pietersen? Ok he´s small too, but he has an amazing kicking boot and game breaking abilities. He would be an assett should we loose Morne Steyn in a match…
Now how much of what I said above DOESNT make sense???
Special mentions shoudl also go out to COenie Oosthuizen, Wiaan du Preez, Wickus Blaauw, Derrick Kuun, Craig Burden, Deon Fourie, David de Villiers, Francois Louw, Franco vd Merwe, Frans Viljoen, Jano Vermaak (injured), Naas Olivier, Henno Mentz (injured), Tonderai Chavanga – who seems to now be completely forgotten as an option on wing, Louis Ludik (injured)
1 Nov 2009, 15:07 pm
#172 grant10: meant not a bok b team
1 Nov 2009, 15:08 pm
#171 David: I´m very much hoping this is coreect but I really think that way of thinking makes much more sense the other way around. Give your players you know are good a chance to play in the Bok setup and see hoe they go and see how your dirttrackers handle the Super 14 next year.
1 Nov 2009, 15:10 pm
Ol’ skop has been calling for John Smit’s head since 1967. The man has it in for him because he was old Jakey’s darling captain. Yawn.
1 Nov 2009, 15:15 pm
#175 Slumtown:
When you consider that both midweek matches will be against weakened sides that won’t be much stronger, if that, than our better CC sides, I can see the logic behind PdeVs thinking.
For me, theonly really signicant selection is that of Potgieter, who I reckon will go straight onto the bench for the main matches, in the absence of Juan.
1 Nov 2009, 15:17 pm
#177 David:
Unless, of course, he’s there as a 6 for the midweek matches.
1 Nov 2009, 15:17 pm
Some whacky left field selections and some noticeable ommissions (Mapoe chief amonst those – he’s really good), but overall, the core of the successful team is there, all but Steyn and De Villiers. There is undoubtedly some political pressure however, for Hoskins to deny this is insulting to the averge SA fans’ intelligence (or is it?).
I’m worried about Ireland and France away though, it’s been a while since we’ve beaten these teams away from home.
I reckon we’ll do just fine with our A team, and some of the newer lads will be around in 2011, so good to get them involved early.
1 Nov 2009, 15:17 pm
#173 Slumtown: u mad
1 Nov 2009, 15:24 pm
#179 wooden spoon:
I think Mapoe will get far more game time and experience in the 7s side than he would sitting on the bench for the Boks. As a wing it can only improve his running and support lines. I reckon allowing him to go that route is an inspired decision.
1 Nov 2009, 15:24 pm
#131 grant10: ye hes a talent i just dont know what hes done to warant this call up…well look at frans steyn so…j deysel grant is my fav non springbok player -ofc im biased ,used to rate potg but imo he a bit small -same height as deysel-allthough i think that he works so well alongside piere spies -kinda the fringe grunt work that we all wish spies would do -he gets his shorts dirty, bleeds abit- tough boy ;kinda evrything spies isnt -a bit like schalk burger but faster and carries the ball more efectivley
1 Nov 2009, 15:29 pm
#181 David: and let’s face it, Mapoe has only been around for 1 season. Perhaps a bit premature for a national call up, but I suspect its only a matter of time.
I suspect PDV is also looking to add to our extended squad strength with his other selections. The hard truth is that the Boks currently don’t have much fire power beyond the starting 15.
1 Nov 2009, 15:29 pm
a way to please politics and suporters-backline with habana pietersen de jongh murray kirchner -would be potent -mapoe jacobs guthro -and idealy januarie and chiliboy ish
1 Nov 2009, 15:32 pm
#182 80srovers: Deysel will get his chance….matter of time. My opinion is we may find the 2011 a bridge too far for a number of current boks.
1 Nov 2009, 15:36 pm
BREAKING NEWS….
Both bulls and Lions after Waylon Murray…seems he is lost to the Sharks….probably going to join D Muir at Lions.
Lions awaiting news on J Lombaard.
Willie Wepener by all accounts not on Lions hit list as Lions to announce star hooker sighning…
1 Nov 2009, 15:38 pm
Willa…kom praat hie boet…se vir ons oor BOD …asseblief.
1 Nov 2009, 15:38 pm
#183 wooden spoon:
Yes, he’s only 21 with a world junior championship under his belt and a world series 7s title.
I reckon he’ll replace Ndungane come the next 3N.
1 Nov 2009, 15:41 pm
#185 grant10: i think we should give the bulls players some rest -we need to preserve the likes of matfield and botha -du preez -then j smith -the rest of the team must play and settle combos -front row needs some game time (maybe get o du rant in here ) and backlines fine
1 Nov 2009, 15:43 pm
#186 grant10:
“Willie Wepener by all accounts not on Lions hit list as Lions to announce star hooker sighning…”
Yeah, must be my ex wife.
1 Nov 2009, 15:44 pm
#189 80srovers: ja…really believe a few top boks should of been left at home for this eoyt…..
In a way a blessing that J Smith out….i would have risked the losses and left at least FDP…BAKKIES…VM…J SMIT at home….risky but long term beneficail…..
1 Nov 2009, 15:45 pm
#190 David: LOL….
1 Nov 2009, 15:47 pm
#191 grant10: grant like the breaking news on brussouw ?/
brian van zyl confirmed there is no communication between brussow and the charks as he is comtracted to 2010
they are legally he said not allowed to negotiate with brussow
aint no breaking news mate , its nothing till a contract is signed
same goes for alberts or ludick , nothing is signed
1 Nov 2009, 15:49 pm
as for leaving out the capt of the boks ??/ lets just say joke of the day
people have short memories
john injured matfield capt boks got clobbered , need i say more
j smit is the glue that holds this bok team together
anyhows. enough said
1 Nov 2009, 15:49 pm
#191 grant10: yep we should have used this time to flex our muscles a bit in terms of depth -front row cheetahs backed with sykes and d devilliers -stegman deysel and vermulen -imo haha (maybe poti capt) albertsd in there tosome where-vermak pienaar de jong jacobs/murray mapoe pietersen and then maybe kirchner
1 Nov 2009, 15:50 pm
#193 sharks_lover: lets see…..
1 Nov 2009, 15:50 pm
rovers 80??
mark my words young lambie a huge star for the sharks in the future
1 Nov 2009, 15:51 pm
#196 grant10:
yup lets , till then ill not get excited 
1 Nov 2009, 15:52 pm
#194 sharks_lover: seems he is better at holding the boks together than the sharks….
Anyway…V Matfiel….with c cups and 2 x super 14 titles on his cv….could also captain the boks…..i reckon we undermine Matfield with these sort of comments…
1 Nov 2009, 15:53 pm
#197 sharks_lover: Now on that we agree 100%…That kid is a rising star!!!
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 » Show All
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.