Selections highlight flawed system
1 Nov 2009
Several tour selections reiterate a sad truth that Peter de Villiers and the Currie Cup coaches aren’t on the same wavelength.
De Villiers has defended the selection of Earl Rose time and again, choosing to ignore the player’s inconsistent offerings in the Super 14 and Currie Cup. He’s rather blamed the Lions’ coaching staff for not giving Rose more opportunities at flyhalf, where De Villiers feels Rose is best.
Chiliboy Ralepelle will tour with the Springboks this November despite playing understudy – when he was fit – to Derick Kuun for the better part of 2009. Bandise Maku is one behind Ralepelle in the Bulls’ hooker queue, but bizarrely has also made De Villiers’ 37-man touring party.
Adriaan Strauss and Tiaan Liebenberg have enjoyed fantastic seasons for the Cheetahs and WP respectively, and have also been involved with the Boks before. It would have made more sense to take these players on tour, as they wouldn’t let the Boks down if Bismarck du Plessis succumbed to injury.
For De Villiers to say Maku has made the touring squad on merit is an interesting statement, as it suggests neither form nor game time in the domestic and Super 14 tournaments are pre-requisites for national selection. Maku is talented and deserves to play at Super 14 and Currie Cup level, but what has he done in those tournaments to deserve elevation to the national squad?
Maku’s selection may be justified if there weren’t other players performing, but that just isn’t the case. It could be justified if Liebenberg (27) and Strauss (23) were on the wrong side of 30, but that isn’t the case either.
Rose is the classic example of a De Villiers favourite keeping a more deserving candidate out of the national set-up. There are other backline players that deserved to tour, WP’s Peter Grant as well as the Cheetahs’ Lionel Mapoe just two that come to mind. In the case of Grant, the tour would provide an alternative flyhalf the opportunity to gain game time so that if Morne Steyn broke down, he would slot in seamlessly. In the case of Mapoe, it would provide an up-and-coming youngster the opportunity to take the next step. Unlike Maku and Rose, Mapoe has earned the right to be there through his consistent performances in the Currie Cup.
There are other players that will feel frustrated. WP flanks Duane Vermeulen and Francois Louw have been outstanding this season, as has Province loosehead Wicus Blaauw. The young flankers would have benefited immensely from a tour experience, but instead De Villiers has opted for Griquas’ Davon Raubenheimer. Instead of Blaauw or other impressive young props like WP Nel and Coenie Oosthuizen, De Villiers has gone for Gurthro Steenkamp, a player that was embarrassed at scrum time in the Currie Cup final.
The decision to take a perfectly good loosehead in Heinke van der Merwe and switch him to tighthead is also ludicrous. Why not give this promising player from the Cheetahs a go? If Os du Randt feels Nel is national prospect, why aren’t the national selectors taking that suggestion to heart?
It’s hard to have faith in De Villiers’ masterplan to defend the Boks’ world title when it’s clear his view differs from that of the Currie Cup coaches. When Ruan Pienaar went back to the Sharks, they played him at No 9, even though De Villiers wants him to get game time at 10 and 15. The Lions prefer to use Rose at fullback or off the bench, while Ralepelle and Maku are regular bench warmers at the Bulls. One way or another, it’s not a healthy situation for Springbok rugby.
De Villiers and the respective coaches need to iron out their communication problems and work toward a common goal. It’s no use to the Boks if a South African side wins the Super 14 or Currie Cup without the starting players De Villiers plans to utilise at Test level.
By Jon Cardinelli
503 Comments
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1 Nov 2009, 20:06 pm
#347 cab: Cab we could hold the #1 spot for years. We have more players than anyone else, of whatever colour. I don’t care. Just for goodness sake pick the best guys.
I worry about dof selections. Dof coaching (I am not including PdV – he’s proved himself to me, but at CC and S14).
1 Nov 2009, 20:06 pm
if he don’t start driving the transformation bus home then when? Too much lip service been spouted around bringing in more players into the main stream a whole lot of window dressing but no real change taken place really since Errol Tobias. Its now or never and may as well be now than too close to 2011. My only real gripe is front row and Mapoe being overlooked for Odwa or Nokwe and/or Rose. The problem there being J. Smit stuffing up the natural progress of younger talent because of his talisman status and Rose being Pdv’s nephew in law. Two blind spots that can screw up a whole team’s potential.
1 Nov 2009, 20:08 pm
#344 WilladieLeeu: Willa cheer me up with soem good news re Lions – new players, etc.
Please don’t tell me we are going to retread Heinek too (although it must be said that I have suggested this in the past, but having seen WP Nel & Buys, I wish Snor did not read my posts so deeply).
1 Nov 2009, 20:09 pm
#350 cab:
Genuine, laaste wat ek gehoor het is dat dit Boland was wat met hom onderhandel het.
Manie homself het dit laasweek ontken dat ons met hom praat.
1 Nov 2009, 20:11 pm
#354 WilladieLeeu:
Boland? bladdy hell.
should be good to see the lions frontrow in s14 with heinke and buys. we shall have to see what happens to alberts?
nag, moet iets doen hierdie kant.
1 Nov 2009, 20:11 pm
#352 skopskiet: Skop I tghink we are making lots of progress and quickly.
Burton Francis is 3x the player Earl Rose will ever be.
1 Nov 2009, 20:11 pm
sien jou later bb
1 Nov 2009, 20:15 pm
#353 SodaJoe:
No news on Lombaard yet. Deon van Rensburg is joining the Lions next week-end. Murray is likely to join us.
Were waiting for confirmation on a hooker. International.
Lions are going to put Buys at hooker on a trial basis to accomodate Heinke’s move to TH. He doesn’t have a problem with it. Front row will look like this:
Wayne Swart, Kevin, Heinke.
BOD wants 8 mil, weve so far offered him 5.6. Negotiations still ongoing.
1 Nov 2009, 20:16 pm
I haven’t seen Burton Francis do anything since all the hype about him. He’s a very conservative Nasty Booter type of player. Rose is totally unpredictable and sometimes outright diabolical but at least he can sometimes get a move happening with some creativity. Francis I haven’t seen a single iota of creativity from that player yet and not even great place kicking either. So dunno how much better he is than Rose if at all.
1 Nov 2009, 20:20 pm
#358 WilladieLeeu: Buys is way to big for hooker imo. But it would be scary as fk to see that oke in the middle of the line! I think most front rows would wet themselves.
I don’t think BOD will come, how will he fit in 6N? But would be great.
Murray is a good player, needs a Barret style guy to bring the best out of him, Doppies can do that. Vermaak, Francis, Doppies, Murray is a pretty good back line.
1 Nov 2009, 20:21 pm
Ok guys see you all through the window.
1 Nov 2009, 20:23 pm
#323 SodaJoe: Joe burnout if we don’t rest players especially in a wc year. Need to rest the players that will make the Boks squad or no Tri-Nations in a world cup year.
Always play your best players for the Boks. Don’t hand out the green and gold like it is marbles. Must be earned.
Showing my age here. Only the best ever got selected when I grew up. Always the best team was sent out to play for the Boks. We a proud rugby nations.
Poms can send us their kak players in June and the rest of the NH and they will stay kak then.
That is why ABs/Os/SA way ahead of them. We alays play our best against each other. Except 2007 in world cup year Jake rested players.
1 Nov 2009, 20:24 pm
#360 SodaJoe:
That would be a frightening front row.
I’d play Boshoff at FH. That kid has the best step I’ve seen in a while.
My Super 14 team:
Wayne Swart
Kevin Buys
Heinke
Lombaard
Franco
Baywatch
Minnie
Mokuena (C)
Jano (VC)
Ruan Boshoff
Jackson
Doppies
BOD/Murray
Chavanga
Hollenbach
1 Nov 2009, 20:24 pm
meant always there. not alays..
1 Nov 2009, 20:25 pm
#361 SodaJoe: Cheers Joe, Just missed you there. Posted back to you a bit late.
1 Nov 2009, 20:27 pm
I can see some long term planning taking place for post WC. Converting Heinke to TH must be Golds idea, and it makes sense to have a prop able to play both 1 and 3 in the squad. That’s CJs strength. With Buys, a converted flank also able to play 3 and 2, it gives us an awesome depth and flexibility in the 22 man squad. Players like WP, Wian, Coenie and Blauw can fill the specialist spots. Just think about it. Bissie will be in great demand after the WC, as will a number of the players who don’t retire, and with no B&IL tour to keep them until the following WC we’ll probably lose them for a couple of years.
1 Nov 2009, 20:31 pm
pdv is just being consistent & using players that he knows…this is his 2006 U21 team that he took to france
SA U21: 15 Scott Spedding, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Waylon Murray, 12 Brad Barritt, 11 Marius Delport, 10 Isma-eel Dollie, 9 Jano Vermaak, 8 Pierre Spies, 7 Hilton Lobberts, 6 Keegan Daniel, 5 Wilheim Steenkamp, 4 Nikolai Blignaut, 3 Sangoni Mxoli, 2 Chiliboy Ralepele, 1 Heinke van der Merwe.
Subs: 16 Bandise Maku, 17 Werner Kruger, 18, Alistair Hargreaves, 19 Adriaan Strauss, 20 Warren Malgas, 21 Morgan Newman, 22 Cedric Mkhize
1 Nov 2009, 20:36 pm
#288
Few guys would be aware of this but Bakkies and Pottie were still down with flu on Friday. Cudos to them for being there to do their bit come matchtime.
1 Nov 2009, 20:36 pm
I get the impression that Pdv and co are less concerned with winning all the eoyt games at the cost of development and they looking to expand some options. Only problem is they possibly barking up the wrong tree with a few choices. The sideline of Mapoe definitely being one and the blindness around tight head. Hopefully Heinke makes all the difference, if not its going to be a long tour.
1 Nov 2009, 20:41 pm
Earl Rose ????
What the ???????
1 Nov 2009, 20:42 pm
Van der Westhuizen dropped by Supersport? probably old news to you guys but there’s an article in the Telegraph today about it.
1 Nov 2009, 20:47 pm
#369 skopskiet:
He still wants to win the tests Skop, as he picked all the top guys, although some of them are in serious need for a break and should have been given a rest.
Many of his back up players however are not the real second best as he was forced to please his masters.
So, imo he is trying to please everyone at the same time and that is where he is going to come up short – if not now, then next year or at the 2011 wc.
Opportunity lost, imo.
1 Nov 2009, 20:53 pm
i wonder if any surprises in the bok shadow test team ….tomorrow all will be revealed as the dirttracker 22 flys out Tues…..will be interesting to see who nails down the 15….12 and 7 spot.
1 Nov 2009, 20:55 pm
15…Kirchner or Ruan?
12 W O or Adi J
7 Schalk or Dewalt Potgieter???????
1 Nov 2009, 20:57 pm
#374 grant10: ruan
wo
schalk
1 Nov 2009, 21:02 pm
i would go…Zane….WO and Dewalt…
1 Nov 2009, 21:02 pm
#372 Robzim: hi rob…someone on a music blog was raving about this song, i just want to find out what your opinion is…
h.t.t.p://www.limelinx.com/files/444f6fdfc55f27266eb596a3ec915392
1 Nov 2009, 21:05 pm
i see B O Driscoll not going to Lions….Leinster said no.And too costly.
Also Griquas lock Lombard cant get out of contract….so no to the lions.
Now they onto Waylon Murray as a 13….and still looking for lock and hooker…
1 Nov 2009, 21:05 pm
#372 Robzim:
Which backup players for the main squad are you referring to? The squad for the internationals is the same as the 3N one, except for JdeV and Frans.
1 Nov 2009, 21:09 pm
#378 grant10: they should get a hooker from capt town , every street corner has one
1 Nov 2009, 21:10 pm
#380 sharks_lover: LOL
1 Nov 2009, 21:13 pm
#366 David:
Exactly. Players like JS, VM, Bakkies and Danie will probably retire after the WC while players like Habana, Du Preez,
J. Fourie, Bismarck, WO and even JPP will look to play out their careers in Europe. That will leave the incoming coach with the task of rebuilding a Bok squad for 2015.
The new cach, if not PdV, will have to build from scratch if that happens, It is therefore important that PdV starts the process to make things easier.
1 Nov 2009, 21:25 pm
Rob, Last time I saw him interviewed before the squad was announced he hinted at our poor record against France and Ireland away and I got a hint then already that he’s going to go with less all out non compromise as we did in the Lions tour or 3N. He’s still going with the intention to win but that the blooding of some new faces more important on his agenda.
I’m not holding anything against him for selecting Viljoen, Maku, Raubenheimer, Johnson, or Adams. Though I am holding it against him for not taking Mapoe for Rose Nokwe or Ndungane, and for taking Kanko Roussouw and Jannie Dup instead of Vermeulen, Alberts and WP Nel. Also for taking Bosman ahead of Le Grange or Grant. But then its the coaches prerogative to pick and chose how he likes and take the consequences of his choices.
1 Nov 2009, 21:27 pm
#373 grant10:
Test team:Kirchner, JPP, J. Fourie, Adi, Habana, M. Steyn, FdP, Spies, Burger, HB, VM, Bakkies, JS (c), Bismarck, Beast.
Midweek team: Pienaar, Odwa, WO, De Jongh, Nokwe, Rose, Heinie, Kanko, Potgieter,Raubenheimer, Bekker, Danie, Jannie Dup, Chilliboy, Steenkamp.
Pienaar, WO, Bosman, Bekker, Danie, Jannie, Chilliboy reserves for the tests.
What do you think. Do they stand a chance against the Froggies?
1 Nov 2009, 21:33 pm
#384 nama1: ja…we got a chance…as you know i kak myself with that front row….but if we hold our own we will be okay. We seldom beat France over there….so will be tough.
Dont like Ruan at 15 5though….he will moan like hell!!
1 Nov 2009, 21:34 pm
#377 Transformation:
It is one of the greatest songs ever written.
“Advertising signs that con you
Into thinking you’re the one
That can do what’s never been done
That can win what’s never been won
Meantime life outside goes on
All around you.
AND:
“Old lady judges watch people in pairs
Limited in ***, they dare
To push fake morals, insult and stare
While money doesn’t talk, it swears
Obscenity, who really cares
Propaganda, all is phony.”
And so on ….. I just love it.
Dylan at his best.
1 Nov 2009, 21:35 pm
#371 Big Hit:
He admitted sniffing some white powdery stuff doing “body hits” with a stripper. Although there were some sexual contact, there was no ***, according to him.
1 Nov 2009, 21:36 pm
#384 nama1:
I think you’ve got the staring 15 spot on, but you’ve left a spot on the bench which should go to Pottie.
1 Nov 2009, 21:40 pm
#379 David:
No, sorry, I am referring to the second string team, not the reserves for the A team.
That is where I think they could have done much better by picking players who performed during the cc like Vermeulen, Strauss, Sykes, Grant etc.
1 Nov 2009, 21:41 pm
#387 nama1: yeah, when did he admit it? the curious thing about it is he had a pregnant wife at home. Was he an habitual drug user or was it a one-off or did he not say?
1 Nov 2009, 21:42 pm
#385 grant10:
One thing about this team though is that they don’t seem to care what the history books say. Two wins in NZ in two years are prove that they believe they can win any game, anywhere.
I believe PdV played a big role in instilling that believe into the players.
1 Nov 2009, 21:43 pm
#389 Robzim: agreed
and i got no problem if they admit that they had to choose quota’s to keep the politicians happy
but dont lie and think people are all a bunch of idiots that cant see the **** selections and what they stand for
that pisses me off more then the fact a lot of brilliant players didnt get selected , and they call it merit
1 Nov 2009, 21:44 pm
It is my understanding that players who perform well in the Currie cup genrally get a spot on the squad
Was PDV watching the Currie Cup???
I understand with some selections, who he is trying to please, but come on, some selections are not just a suprise but very strange
1 Nov 2009, 21:46 pm
#392 sharks_lover:
I have to agree with that.
Just come out and say we want to try some new players, and not say they deserve a spot in the squad
Although Earl Rose is not a new player
1 Nov 2009, 21:47 pm
#391 nama1: yes…pdv without doubt has installed a sense of confidence….and who knows….?
But France will be eyeing that front row consisting 2 x hookers and a ex loose forward….and saying thats where we nail them!!
Hope i am wrong…but we will eventually bear the pain of a poor front row….inevitable i reckon.
But what the hell….lets smash the Frogs…..
Cheers all…Outta here
1 Nov 2009, 21:48 pm
#393 CoachPete: deysel , sykes , mapoe , alberts , strauss , vermeulen , to name a few that should have been in the squad
1 Nov 2009, 21:50 pm
i tell ya if the usa rugby union used their brains and MONEY they have , they would be buying out 50% of the talent here in SA
would come cheap for them and **** they could built with talent like that and spread the game more in the usa
1 Nov 2009, 21:51 pm
Yes I cant disagree at all
But you and I know what is going on here.
it just worries me that these players who are potential future springboks to take the palce of guys retiring, they may move to Europe sooner than later.
Sad
1 Nov 2009, 21:51 pm
#392 sharks_lover:
Exactly my point, I just hope we do not lose more players to Europe.
Hoskins must watch his trap.
1 Nov 2009, 21:51 pm
#390 Big Hit:
He admits it in a biography called, Joost: Man in a mirror. The newspapers and internet sites carried pieces of it today. I don’t know whether it was a habit or a once off thing but apparently that specific drug is quite commonly used amongst the people in Pretoria.
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