Comments on: Selections highlight flawed system http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/ An independent look at South African rugby Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:43:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1449545 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke Mon, 02 Nov 2009 12:35:40 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1449545 #<a href="#comment-1448920" rel="nofollow">490 skopskiet</a>: What's with all the insults? Please show me what gives you the right to speak to me in such a disrespectful way? This is why people get such the hell in with you Skop because you can't ever refute someone's point without flinging childish school yard insults. That is the sign of an weak debater. If you can't speak to people without descending into a flurry of vitriolic personal attacks then I suggest don't respond at all. #490 skopskiet: What’s with all the insults? Please show me what gives you the right to speak to me in such a disrespectful way? This is why people get such the hell in with you Skop because you can’t ever refute someone’s point without flinging childish school yard insults. That is the sign of an weak debater. If you can’t speak to people without descending into a flurry of vitriolic personal attacks then I suggest don’t respond at all.

]]> By: cab http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1449296 cab Mon, 02 Nov 2009 10:18:00 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1449296 #<a href="#comment-1448912" rel="nofollow">487 AlanD</a>: nice post, but ireland and france have both had it over SA over the last 5 years on the EOY tours, going to be very hard to beat - also alot of extremely tired Bok/Bulls players. #487 AlanD:
nice post, but ireland and france have both had it over SA over the last 5 years on the EOY tours, going to be very hard to beat – also alot of extremely tired Bok/Bulls players.

]]> By: Storm outta hell http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1449264 Storm outta hell Mon, 02 Nov 2009 09:59:13 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1449264 Peter de Villier's wavelength in an enigma...don't even try go there :lol: Peter de Villier’s wavelength in an enigma…don’t even try go there :lol:

]]> By: Beast http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1449142 Beast Mon, 02 Nov 2009 08:40:39 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1449142 Mr. Cardinelli, time for you to also get with the program. PdV has proven that his master-plan, bizar as it may appear at times, is working. Forget about the odd "controversial" selections, think future. Any selection from WP is not a longterm prospect as they will inevitabilly move to a glamour European club. Loyalty is not their strongest atribute. You don't develop PDI players by bringing them into a squad when you are struggling. You bleed them while you are on top. I would rather have exposed another 2 or 3 in stead of a couple of the guys who are on the wrong side of 30. Whether it is said or not, if Rugby is not seen to be transforming, the politicians will make the decisions for us. Live with it! We have an opertunity to make rugby the no.1 sport in SA over the next to years. With the PSL and Bafana being in the state it is, many people have already made the switch. The more successful and representative our team is, the better for the future of our beloved game. Mr. Cardinelli, time for you to also get with the program. PdV has proven that his master-plan, bizar as it may appear at times, is working. Forget about the odd “controversial” selections, think future. Any selection from WP is not a longterm prospect as they will inevitabilly move to a glamour European club. Loyalty is not their strongest atribute.

You don’t develop PDI players by bringing them into a squad when you are struggling. You bleed them while you are on top. I would rather have exposed another 2 or 3 in stead of a couple of the guys who are on the wrong side of 30. Whether it is said or not, if Rugby is not seen to be transforming, the politicians will make the decisions for us. Live with it!

We have an opertunity to make rugby the no.1 sport in SA over the next to years. With the PSL and Bafana being in the state it is, many people have already made the switch. The more successful and representative our team is, the better for the future of our beloved game.

]]> By: David http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1449105 David Mon, 02 Nov 2009 08:17:15 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1449105 #<a href="#comment-1449052" rel="nofollow">497 Hondo</a>: He hasn't picked any passengers for the EOY tests either. Apart from Potgieter on the bench and possibly Viljoen against Italy the test squad is unchanged. I suspect that Bosman is only there as a replacement 12 since Jean has left. #497 Hondo:
He hasn’t picked any passengers for the EOY tests either. Apart from Potgieter on the bench and possibly Viljoen against Italy the test squad is unchanged. I suspect that Bosman is only there as a replacement 12 since Jean has left.

]]> By: Sidewinder http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1449099 Sidewinder Mon, 02 Nov 2009 08:12:30 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1449099 #<a href="#comment-1448965" rel="nofollow">494 David</a>: But you're overlooking the glaring difference between SA and NZ - namely, that we have a race quota in SA rugby. It seems illogical to overlook this when analysing team selections. It's fairly obvious who has benefited from their complexion. #494 David: But you’re overlooking the glaring difference between SA and NZ – namely, that we have a race quota in SA rugby. It seems illogical to overlook this when analysing team selections. It’s fairly obvious who has benefited from their complexion.

]]> By: Hondo http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1449052 Hondo Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:49:27 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1449052 #<a href="#comment-1448965" rel="nofollow">494 David</a>: With the exception of Jacobs, PdV didn't pick passangers this season when tough, decided tests were on the line! Jacobs was dumped at half time of the 2nd Lions' Test and Jaques Fourie came on to win the series On the 3rd Test there were 4 passangers in the Boks line up and the Boks lost that Test, but the series already had been won. In Brisbane, PdV brought on 3 passangers and packed the banch with few more, result: Test was lost. But it had no effect on winning the Tri Nation 2009, the ABs were extremly dysfunctional this year, they lost their lineouts and their backs dropped 14 balls per test on average, Ndungane helped the ABs cause in the 3rd (and last) Test but the Boks with Styen's 60m kicks won it nevertheless! #494 David:
With the exception of Jacobs, PdV didn’t pick passangers this season when tough, decided tests were on the line!
Jacobs was dumped at half time of the 2nd Lions’ Test and Jaques Fourie came on to win the series
On the 3rd Test there were 4 passangers in the Boks line up and the Boks lost that Test, but the series already had been won.
In Brisbane, PdV brought on 3 passangers and packed the banch with few more, result: Test was lost.
But it had no effect on winning the Tri Nation 2009, the ABs were extremly dysfunctional this year, they lost their lineouts and their backs dropped 14 balls per test on average, Ndungane helped the ABs cause in the 3rd (and last) Test but the Boks with Styen’s 60m kicks won it nevertheless!

]]> By: siener http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1449038 siener Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:36:56 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1449038 I posted this in an old dead thread: The inclusion of Rose is still the most perplexing choice. No matter how talented he is, he has shown time and again that he does not step up to the plate in the big games when it really counts. Time and again he has been thrown in at the deep end with the hope that he will swim and time and again he has failed. If he is to have a future in SA rugby I would say that he rather has to drop down to a smaller union like Griekwas where the pressure is less and he can build some confidence. Heinke is also a weird choice. He hasn’t played any rugby since April and according to reports here on Keo, he was only going to start playing again in next year’s S14. Even weirder is the fact that JC calls Heinke a “good selection”. In my mind there are many props who played well in the CC and deserved a call-up ahead of him. Isn’t it about time we give someone else a chance ahead of the Ndungane brothers? They have served SA well as solid second stringers, but there is so much exciting young talent on the wing to choose from. The one glaring omission is Adriaan Strauss. When he got his chance in a Bok jersey last year through the injury of the top three or four hookers he grabbed it with both hands. Since then he played brilliantly for the Cheetahs and has shown himself as a great leader as well. I posted this in an old dead thread:
The inclusion of Rose is still the most perplexing choice. No matter how talented he is, he has shown time and again that he does not step up to the plate in the big games when it really counts.

Time and again he has been thrown in at the deep end with the hope that he will swim and time and again he has failed.

If he is to have a future in SA rugby I would say that he rather has to drop down to a smaller union like Griekwas where the pressure is less and he can build some confidence.

Heinke is also a weird choice. He hasn’t played any rugby since April and according to reports here on Keo, he was only going to start playing again in next year’s S14. Even weirder is the fact that JC calls Heinke a “good selection”. In my mind there are many props who played well in the CC and deserved a call-up ahead of him.

Isn’t it about time we give someone else a chance ahead of the Ndungane brothers? They have served SA well as solid second stringers, but there is so much exciting young talent on the wing to choose from.

The one glaring omission is Adriaan Strauss. When he got his chance in a Bok jersey last year through the injury of the top three or four hookers he grabbed it with both hands. Since then he played brilliantly for the Cheetahs and has shown himself as a great leader as well.

]]> By: Oubaas2009 http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1449019 Oubaas2009 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:15:02 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1449019 Hold onto your panties people. Our 'A' side will be exactly the same as the one that won the Tri Nations & beat the British & Irish Lions bar Frans Steyn & JDV and Juan Smith. Think about it. Our dirt trackers will be our A side bench plus the others. Something like... 1. Gurthro Steenkamp 2. Chilliboy Ralepele 3. Jannie Du Plessis 4. Danie Rossouw 5. Andries Bekker 6. Devon Raubenheimer 7. Dewald Potgeiter 8. Ryan Kankowski 9. Frans Hougaard 10. Ruan Pienaar (Or if Ruan plays 15 for the A's then Meyer Bosman) 11. Jongi Nokwe 12. Adi Jacobs 13. Juan De Jongh 14. Odwa Ndungane 15. Zane Kirchner 16. Bandise Maku 17. Heinke Van der Merve 18. Ashley Johnson 19. Heini Adams 20. Riaan Viljoen 21. Alaister Hargreaves 22. Meyer Bosman 23. Earl Rose That's a damn good side. Not sure why they persist with Nokwe and Rose. I would go for Mapoe and Burton Francis over those two anyday and you still have your 'quota'. Hold onto your panties people.

Our ‘A’ side will be exactly the same as the one that won the Tri Nations & beat the British & Irish Lions bar Frans Steyn & JDV and Juan Smith.

Think about it. Our dirt trackers will be our A side bench plus the others. Something like…

1. Gurthro Steenkamp
2. Chilliboy Ralepele
3. Jannie Du Plessis
4. Danie Rossouw
5. Andries Bekker
6. Devon Raubenheimer
7. Dewald Potgeiter
8. Ryan Kankowski

9. Frans Hougaard
10. Ruan Pienaar (Or if Ruan plays 15 for the A’s then Meyer Bosman)
11. Jongi Nokwe
12. Adi Jacobs
13. Juan De Jongh
14. Odwa Ndungane
15. Zane Kirchner

16. Bandise Maku
17. Heinke Van der Merve
18. Ashley Johnson
19. Heini Adams
20. Riaan Viljoen
21. Alaister Hargreaves
22. Meyer Bosman
23. Earl Rose

That’s a damn good side.

Not sure why they persist with Nokwe and Rose. I would go for Mapoe and Burton Francis over those two anyday and you still have your ‘quota’.

]]> By: David http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1448965 David Mon, 02 Nov 2009 06:39:38 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1448965 #<a href="#comment-1448956" rel="nofollow">493 Dunx</a>: PdeV has done what the NZRU does every year when they draft young players into a franchise where they'll get game time at a higher level and the selectors can monitor their progress. SARU don't have this power, so PdeV has done the next best thing and included them for midweek games against decent club sides in the NH. #493 Dunx:
PdeV has done what the NZRU does every year when they draft young players into a franchise where they’ll get game time at a higher level and the selectors can monitor their progress. SARU don’t have this power, so PdeV has done the next best thing and included them for midweek games against decent club sides in the NH.

]]> By: Dunx http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1448956 Dunx Mon, 02 Nov 2009 06:22:10 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1448956 that is because mr PdV doesn't select on merit and if they had played as 1st choice where would those provinces be? the provinces play merit based players and the springboks are turning into a big "white elephant" with all these players that may have talent but cant cut a 1st choice starting bearth regulary that is because mr PdV doesn’t select on merit and if they had played as 1st choice where would those provinces be? the provinces play merit based players and the springboks are turning into a big “white elephant” with all these players that may have talent but cant cut a 1st choice starting bearth regulary

]]> By: nama1 http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1448936 nama1 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 05:53:22 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1448936 #<a href="#comment-1448892" rel="nofollow">475 Big Hit</a>: 12 x 3 = 36, I suppose. Post 478: Yeah... some would have us believe that the Bok teams/squads of the past were always solely picked on merit... without some coaches favourite... you forgot to mention Markgraaf taking his drinking buddy on tour Theo Oosthuizen, not so? #<a href="#comment-1448905" rel="nofollow">482 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke</a>: Did you actually read the man's posts. See 457. #475 Big Hit:
12 x 3 = 36, I suppose.

Post 478: Yeah… some would have us believe that the Bok teams/squads of the past were always solely picked on merit… without some coaches favourite… you forgot to mention Markgraaf taking his drinking buddy on tour Theo Oosthuizen, not so?

#482 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke:
Did you actually read the man’s posts. See 457.

]]> By: Pearl Rose http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1448931 Pearl Rose Mon, 02 Nov 2009 05:13:38 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1448931 #<a href="#comment-1448905" rel="nofollow">482 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke</a>: for goodness' sake crouchy give it a rest! What is with the wounded animal attitude all the time? Get over skopkiet, you're making his assertions about you sound like they may have some truth to them. #482 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: for goodness’ sake crouchy give it a rest! What is with the wounded animal attitude all the time? Get over skopkiet, you’re making his assertions about you sound like they may have some truth to them.

]]> By: skopskiet http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1448920 skopskiet Mon, 02 Nov 2009 04:29:15 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1448920 Crouchety reading with his A hole again. Where I say I'd rather have Rose over Jdp in squad? You got some seriously deluded blinkers covering your eyes. If you look properly and closely I said: I rather have Wp Nel over Jdp. Would leave one of Maku or Chili behind and take Liebenberg or Strauss. Would leave Roussouw out for Alberts. Have Vermeulen ahead of Kanko. Take Mapoe ahead of Ndungane or Nokwe. Take Joe Pietersen ahead of Rose. Thats what I said not wtf you thought I said, next time open your eyes and your brain. I also said biggest quota in the team is Jannie Dup and Kanko not too far behind. And thank the Lord they left useless Muller out at last and taken some potential in Hargreaves instead. Crouchety reading with his A hole again. Where I say I’d rather have Rose over Jdp in squad? You got some seriously deluded blinkers covering your eyes.

If you look properly and closely I said:

I rather have Wp Nel over Jdp.
Would leave one of Maku or Chili behind and take Liebenberg or Strauss.
Would leave Roussouw out for Alberts.
Have Vermeulen ahead of Kanko.
Take Mapoe ahead of Ndungane or Nokwe.
Take Joe Pietersen ahead of Rose.

Thats what I said not wtf you thought I said, next time open your eyes and your brain. I also said biggest quota in the team is Jannie Dup and Kanko not too far behind. And thank the Lord they left useless Muller out at last and taken some potential in Hargreaves instead.

]]> By: David http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1448918 David Mon, 02 Nov 2009 04:20:38 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1448918 #<a href="#comment-1448896" rel="nofollow">478 Namibianmaverick</a>: Danie is the backup for Bakkies. When did you miss that? #478 Namibianmaverick:
Danie is the backup for Bakkies. When did you miss that?

]]> By: David http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1448916 David Mon, 02 Nov 2009 04:15:55 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1448916 #<a href="#comment-1448905" rel="nofollow">482 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke</a>: So you think that Schalk at 7 is a softie? :roll: #482 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke:

So you think that Schalk at 7 is a softie? :roll:

]]> By: AlanD http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1448912 AlanD Mon, 02 Nov 2009 01:50:25 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1448912 Hows it going all. First time posting here and I must say its a very good well informed blog. I have seen various posts here and elsewhere(and articles mainly in NH) saying France and Ireland will give SA a good game, some suggesting they will both beat SA. It puzzles me to be honest. I'm Irish and as much as I would absolutely love to see us win in Croke Park against the top 15 SA team, I honestly think its an extremely low probability. We won in 2004 and 2006 but this SA team are in a different league right now to everyone else and Ireland are nowhere near their standard, particularly with the very poor form of Munster and to a lesser extent Leinster. I watch a tonne of rugby both NH and SH and love almost all of it and I have to say that the performances in the Currie Cup by all the semifinalists have been by far and away head and shoulders above anything I have seen in Air NZ cup, magners, H-cup, premiership or Top 14 in France so far this year. I think France have a better shot at SA as we all know that on their day France are capable of playing unbelievable rugby. There is the small matter of Declan Kidney being able to weave magic in Ireland's favor so I will cling to that for now. Looking forward to it in any case. Hows it going all. First time posting here and I must say its a very good well informed blog. I have seen various posts here and elsewhere(and articles mainly in NH) saying France and Ireland will give SA a good game, some suggesting they will both beat SA. It puzzles me to be honest. I’m Irish and as much as I would absolutely love to see us win in Croke Park against the top 15 SA team, I honestly think its an extremely low probability. We won in 2004 and 2006 but this SA team are in a different league right now to everyone else and Ireland are nowhere near their standard, particularly with the very poor form of Munster and to a lesser extent Leinster. I watch a tonne of rugby both NH and SH and love almost all of it and I have to say that the performances in the Currie Cup by all the semifinalists have been by far and away head and shoulders above anything I have seen in Air NZ cup, magners, H-cup, premiership or Top 14 in France so far this year. I think France have a better shot at SA as we all know that on their day France are capable of playing unbelievable rugby. There is the small matter of Declan Kidney being able to weave magic in Ireland’s favor so I will cling to that for now. Looking forward to it in any case.

]]> By: Amerifikaner http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1448910 Amerifikaner Mon, 02 Nov 2009 01:35:59 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1448910 #<a href="#comment-1448896" rel="nofollow">478 Namibianmaverick</a>: Spot on. All teams have a few "surprises." Piet Snor is the coach and have the right to success or fail. Go Bokke. #478 Namibianmaverick: Spot on. All teams have a few “surprises.” Piet Snor is the coach and have the right to success or fail. Go Bokke.

]]> By: Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1448908 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke Sun, 01 Nov 2009 23:40:31 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1448908 #<a href="#comment-1448906" rel="nofollow">483 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke</a>: Also forgot Ndungane - poor hands. #483 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: Also forgot Ndungane – poor hands.

]]> By: Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke http://www.keo.co.za/2009/11/01/selections-highlight-flawed-system/#comment-1448907 Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke Sun, 01 Nov 2009 23:37:55 +0000 http://www.keo.co.za/?p=45646#comment-1448907 #<a href="#comment-1448880" rel="nofollow">463 Ned</a>: but not a Prawn? :) #463 Ned: but not a Prawn? :)

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