Gifting Bok blazers
2 Nov 2009
Token black players continue to be selected for the national squad, writes Keo in his weekly Business Day column.
A domestic final with an inevitable script and a Springbok touring squad so predictable that every newspaper got it 100% correct ahead of the announcement.
The Bok squad leaks to the media were to soften blows about selections such as those of Earl Rose and the Griquas duo of Riaan Viljoen and Davon Raubenheimer. Bandise Maku and Chiliboy Ralepelle were also Springbok tour inclusions, even though they were never the first-choice hookers in the Bulls’ victorious Currie Cup campaign.
South African Rugby Union president Oregan Hoskins felt the urge to put it on record that this was a touring squad selected on merit. The fact that he felt compelled to tell us this was a squad selected on playing ability alone, means it was not.
Springbok coach Peter de Villiers, as with his predecessors, is entitled to his own opinion on players, and he will argue that those selected are the best in their positions. Anyone with half a brain knows it is nonsense and the squad of 37 is bloated by black numbers, with very few of those players possibilities for the three Test matches.
The message it sends to the players left behind is that very little has changed within South African rugby and, despite the quality of black players, there are still black players gifted a free blazer and tracksuit at national level. Political pawns have walked the same path, only to be cast away afterwards.
Pity the black player who deserves to be there on ability because there are a few who aren’t good enough who continue to be selected.
There is no argument that can be made to justify Rose’s inclusion. Currently he does not deserve to be a Springbok. Given the need to find greater black representation, the biggest shock is the omission of Cheetahs wing Lionel Mapoe. Outside of Bryan Habana, Mapoe has been the form wing of the Currie Cup and there is no explanation that will convince me he was not good enough to go. When you get a player like Mapoe, you pick him and give him an overseas tour to settle into the Springbok dynamic.
With Mapoe the selectors missed a trick. With a few others they’ve played a trick on what it takes to be a Springbok.
The selectors and bosses at South African rugby have also ignored the advice of sports science specialist Dr Tim Noakes, who suggested that the senior Boks had to be rested this month if they were to make it to the 2011 World Cup. All of them were picked and all those who starred against the British & Irish Lions and in the Tri-Nations will play another month of rugby. As Noakes warned, the damage is already being done, but the extent of that damage will only be seen in a year.
The Bulls Springboks, in particular Victor Matfield and Fourie du Preez, were instrumental in the Bulls 36-24 Currie Cup final win against the Cheetahs, but they looked like two great players tapping into their last reserves. They were monumental in the final, but they were also tired.
Do the duo, the best lock and scrumhalf in the world, have two more Test matches in them this season? And what will the long- term consequence be of playing them against France and Ireland? Emotionally they must be drained.
Too much is being asked of the senior players on this tour, that should have been used to strengthen the depth of the squad. The results should have been secondary to the 2011 World Cup planning, but the fact that De Villiers has picked his strongest starting Test XV, excluding overseas-based players, means this is a tour that will be defined by results.
The attitude towards the tour short-changes the Boks, just as the selections short-changed some of those players who were outstanding in Saturday’s final.
That the Bulls deserved to win is not in question. No team wins easily against the Bulls in Pretoria, but to gift them a 24-point start after 20 minutes ended the contest before it had even started.
The Cheetahs were brave. Some may even say they were heroic. But with a 24-point cushion the Bulls were always two scores to the good. It was a quality final, but the identity of the Springbok squad unfortunately said more about South African rugby than the climax to the domestic season.
114 Comments
2 Nov 2009, 12:05 pm
This thread is a Dragon’s minefield!
2 Nov 2009, 12:06 pm
jan
2 Nov 2009, 12:06 pm
yep, pretty much says it all.
the springbok should be the pinnacle of achievement and not used as a transformation vehicle. instead the EP S14 franchise should be used as such. its not PdV’s fault, he like every other bok coach knows only too well the push for transformers, its SARU who’ve missed the golden goose here which would be a panacea to alot of ills. they should have let watson snr take on o’neil, and he would of been more than a match.
2 Nov 2009, 12:08 pm
Oh here we go again.
The SA rugby season is over so we should expect more of these articles from Keo’s poisoned diatribe pen.
2 Nov 2009, 12:12 pm
#4 Jozi: the article is stating the facts plain and simple.
i am sure some of the quota players are embarrassed knowing that they have been chosen as a quota rather than their talent.
maybe pdv should go and talk to breyton paulse.
2 Nov 2009, 12:14 pm
You’re missing the point CAB. The black players are there to be picked, and deserve to be there. They’ve again persisted with players that doesn’t deserve it in any way. That’s all he said. But then, everybody knows that, and it is a bit of a no-point article.
2 Nov 2009, 12:14 pm
Anyone who starts article with the word “token” …
is asking for kuk.
2 Nov 2009, 12:15 pm
Maybe the selectors didn’t watch the final?
And missed Mapoe?
2 Nov 2009, 12:16 pm
#5 fish out of water: That may well be but I’m bored stiff of this subject. I just don’t feel like discussing it anymore. I concur with Cab above. That’s my last comment on this topic.
2 Nov 2009, 12:17 pm
We can debate for ages on who is there, who should be there and what a travesty it is that certain guys are not there.
History does repeat itself as you mentioned Keo, but the history I keep on seeing repeating itself is a coach going for a selection of ‘better the devil you know’.
Most of the ‘shock’ inclusions are made out of guys Peter coached at junior level, or with the Spears.
There is a difference between favouritism, and tokenism.
Another telling fact for me is that our so-called 2nd stringers were badly exposed this year, where De Villiers admitted that our depth is far from what he thought it was.
‘Obvious’ choices that were left behind have almost all experienced some of the Bok culture either through previous inclusions in Bok camps, or for the Emerging Boks. So the management has to have some idea of what they can contribute.
Our (first choice) 2nd stringers are a problem, so in essence I have no proble with PDV experimenting with guys who perhaps might slot in much better into back up positions, than okes that failed there recently.
De Villiers gets to assess guys for probably about 3 months of the year if that (since the majority of his time is spent preparing for actual tests).
Just as De Villiers gets stuff wrong, so do union coaches too by not selecting players arguably deserving a place. Neither can be said to be right or wrong, it is personal choices, the difference however is De Villiers has almost no room for ever, where union coaches have a lot.
De Villiers will select what he believes is best for Bok rugby, as he knows bad results will cost him his job.
PS, all of the above is said excluding Earl Rose whose selection does not even deserve debate.
2 Nov 2009, 12:20 pm
Div could have easily selected three new black players and given them game time on tour and had everyone’s support in this. If he had taken De Jongh, Mapoe and Johnson along and played them in the midweek teams, everyone would have lauded his ability to spot talent and get these guys involved in the Bok set-up. But by picking Raubenheimer and Maku, and persisting with Chilliboy, Rose and Nokwe he has taken it several steps too far and this squad has become a joke, once again. I feel sorry for Juan De Jongh, because now he’s painted with the same brush as Earl Rose. How is this fair?
2 Nov 2009, 12:23 pm
Here’s the problem: Every coach has favourite players that he sees qualities in that other people don’t. The problem is that in SA, if that player happens to be black it will always be put down to quotas. If a player is white there is no such issue.
Hell, even when one black player gets selected ahead of another black player the quota trumpet gets blown – see Mapoe.
We all know PdV has faith in Rose for no apparent reason (as Jake had in people like Jaco vd W and Snyman), but in the public’s mind Rose is and will always be a quota.
The perplexing selection of Heinke (at tight head no less) will never get the same amount of scorn. No matter what you can say about Heinke, at least he’s not a “quota”.
2 Nov 2009, 12:25 pm
#10 PissAnt: I agree 100% PA. KEO is just looking for hits
2 Nov 2009, 12:26 pm
Earning a Bok jersey is easier than buying one down at the robots
2 Nov 2009, 12:26 pm
#12 Siener
Thank you, on why everytime a team is selected there should be issues of race i do not understand. Most of the guys will not even play in any of the tests matches. The best will play in the test matches! Get over your self Keo.
2 Nov 2009, 12:27 pm
I don’t have a problem with PdViva!’s approach… They’re handing out track-suits FFS… not CAPS…
They told us up-front they were selecting guys to give them time to play with the Boks against opposition where the result won’t affect our rankings and such… sure we don’t want to lose (and shoudn’t) against club sides… but PdViva! got roasted for putting in the second-string against the BILion’s… so what is he supposed to do…???
as usual… he’s damned if he does… damned if he doesn’t…
sure he could’ve picked a few more players that I would’ve picked…
and I could debate that with him… but as for the principle of what he’s doing…? I say Viva PdViva!!
2 Nov 2009, 12:29 pm
Just to emphasize the how delusional the “token” and “quota” criers have become, note that in a column about racial quotas Keo laments the inclusion of the white Riaan Viljoen and the exclusion of Mapoe.
Wow.
Div has strange ideas and he has rightly criticized the CC Unions for not giving black players the chances they deserve, but you can’t accuse him of just selecting token black players.
2 Nov 2009, 12:30 pm
Looks a good touring side – i think the selection of the Griquas players is fantastic , they had a great season so it is well deserved , but the little scrumy from the Wild Onions was very unlucky
Front row is still so much up for debate , and why the whole Cheetahs front row did not get a call up is puzzling because they werent just good they were dynamite.
The only issue is that alot of the B players havent played enough rugby this year so i think we will see them struggling in the first outing against Leciester
2 Nov 2009, 12:30 pm
#11 katman:
“I feel sorry for Juan De Jongh, because now he’s painted with the same brush as Earl Rose. How is this fair?”
It’s only unfair of the guys holding the brush…
2 Nov 2009, 12:35 pm
Why should P Diddy not stick with Chilli? Why is it impossible for him to see more potential in Maku than the other hookers? I mean potential in whatever he rates. The guy clearly rates Rose, I dont, but he must see something. Safe to say that if he was coaching any of the Super 14 teams Rose would start for him.
Honestly, I would not have picked Rose but Chilli and Maku would make my team. Maku for midweek games and Chilli for the tests. I dont rate Kuhn as a hooker at all and think he would make our scrum even worse. There are other hookers but the coach believes these 2 can take the boks forward.
2 Nov 2009, 12:36 pm
I wonder hw derick kuun feels…..I mean this has got to be dicouraging for him!
2 Nov 2009, 12:38 pm
#19 ufo: Yep…but you’ll find that De Jongh will fall in with the likes of Habana and others whom are actually there on merit,whilst Rose is gonna be a little lost without his good mate Ricky
2 Nov 2009, 12:38 pm
#21 usualsuspect: He is useless though…Better hookers elsewhere – they must be feeling kak.
2 Nov 2009, 12:41 pm
Mad Dog and Siener… Selections like Davon Raubenheimer and Maku/Ralapelle are inevitably going to bring racial issues to the fore and it’s a healthy discussion. I’d far rather have a bit of outcry and controversy over this, than see us all happily accept PDV and Hoskins claims that these are ‘merit’ selections.
These claims suggest that the players concerned are arguably one of the 2 or 3 best in their positions. If SA Rugby made a statement to clarify that the touring squad would consist of the best 30 players in SA, and would also include 7 talented black players who will be taken along for purposes of development and investing in players, there would be no outcry. Every intelligent fan knows that it’s important for South Africa to find players like Habana, Pieterson, Beast etc – heroes for South Africans of every colour.
The problem is a lack of common honesty. We don’t like to be lied to by the custodians of the game we love – especially when the lies insult our intelligence. I would love to see Maku or Raubenheimer develop into world class players and am always looking out for good black players, because they are so important to South African rugby. Just don’t try and convince me that they are in the squad as the best available players.
2 Nov 2009, 12:41 pm
#23 Ig: hehehehe . Yip Kuuhn is a flanker at best…… i always yell to him to throw the ball to a player in blue at the lineout…. makes me nervous this guy…
2 Nov 2009, 12:43 pm
The squad that should tour:
1. Steenkamp
2. Ralepelle
3. Du Plessis
4. Rossouw
5. Bekker
6. Burger
7. Potgieter
8. Kankowski
9. Adams
10. Pienaar
11. Nokwe
12. Olivier
13. Fourie
14. Pieterson
15. Kirchner
16. Du Preez
17. Strauss
18. Nel
19. Sykes
20. Hargreaves
21. Deyzel
22. Vermeulen
23. Johnson
24. Sarel Pretorius
25. Francis
26. Mapoe
27. Bosman
28. Jacobs
29. Ndungane
30. Pieterson
31. Van Der Merwe
32. Liebenberg
33. Van Zyl
34. Francois Louw
35. Vermaak (Hougaard if Vermaak is injured)
36. De Jongh
37. Aplon or Terblanche or Viljoen (you decide)
Rested:
Mtawarira
Du Plessis
Smit
Botha
Matfield
Brussow
Spies
Du Preez
Steyn
Habana
Injured:
Smith
Overseas:
JDV
Frans Steyn
CJ
2 Nov 2009, 12:44 pm
Ralepelle and Potgieter to lead.
2 Nov 2009, 12:46 pm
Surely we will then see how good our depth truly is.
Plus the big boys for 2011 who are in desperate need of down time will get some rest.
2 Nov 2009, 12:46 pm
No caps for the midweek side so I don’t see the problem.
2 Nov 2009, 12:48 pm
#23 IG I dont agree with some of PDv choices,I mean earl rose,*** on nw!But Derick Kuun has played the whole season as the Blue Bulls number 1 hooker,and for the two guys bhind you to b selected before you,is got to be worying,wat does tht say about other franchise first choice hookers (straus etc)!I also think johnson should be thrown in the depend end jus yet,you got players like Deysel,Duane Vermeulen who have sound super 14 experience,and had great games when playing for the emerging boks.We are not building any depth like this,look at your shimanges,your tyibilika’s all disapeard of the radar.We just settiing these boys up for failure.
2 Nov 2009, 12:48 pm
#28 puff: Will totally spoil PdV’s coaching record as Boks get thrashed by France and Ireland..
2 Nov 2009, 12:51 pm
#12 siener:
Well said mate
2 Nov 2009, 12:53 pm
#31 Storm outta hell:
But it will be exciting, unpredictable rugby.
And he will be forgiven if (when) they lose as it’ll be clear he’s building depth for 2011 and resting the big guns.
So what if the Boks lose two end of year matches?
They’ve had a brilliant year – it wouldn’t ruin it.
It’s not like they’re attempting a Grand Slam.
I’m not saying go out there to lose.
The guys I listed should look to win and surprise their more favoured opponents.
Imagine if the guys listed do win against France and Ireland.
Then Bok rugby would be even more feared.
2 Nov 2009, 12:53 pm
And PDV would be truly revered.
2 Nov 2009, 12:54 pm
#31 Storm outta hell: There are 5 players that ensured the winning of the super14,the tri-nations and the CC….FdP,Bakkies,Vic,Brian and Morne…if you leave all of them at home the Boks have no hope of winning in the NH
2 Nov 2009, 12:55 pm
“The results should have been secondary to the 2011 World Cup planning,”
Really, Keo? What do you think the reaction of some supporters would be if he were to take that route and lose against France and Ireland. Mind you it is still a possibility, but at least they will then have to beat our strongest possible side. I guarantee you if the unthinkable happens some people here, you probably included, will still blame the squad selection for the losses, notwithstanding the fact that our best players will play in the test matches.
2 Nov 2009, 12:58 pm
#34 puff:
2 Nov 2009, 13:00 pm
Juan De Jongh is the find of the Currie Cup season and fully deserves to be there unlike Rose who is was and always will be rubbish… . only there cause he is connected to Div
2 Nov 2009, 13:03 pm
#33 puff: PDV not thinking about 2011 at the moment:
‘We don’t want to look after 2011 and have regrets, there is life after that World Cup – it’s not the be all and end all – and we don’t want to get caught with our pants down. We have medium-term and long-term goals, which we hope to fulfill.’
2 Nov 2009, 13:04 pm
ROSE DESERVES IT !
He needs playing experience now for when he leads us to glory in 2011 !
Rose has the skills of Dan Carter, the natural gifts of Giteau and the brilliance of Carlos Spencer – All rolled into one !
Get off his back ! He will lead us to glory !
2 Nov 2009, 13:08 pm
#11 katman:
“I feel sorry for Juan De Jongh, because now he’s painted with the same brush as Earl Rose.”
Why should he be painted with the same brush? Something’s wrong with that statement… can’t put my fingers on it.
#12 siener:
Good post.
#13 Kritik:
If he hasn’t realised by now that this kind of article does not generate as many hits any more, he must be a Joos.
2 Nov 2009, 13:11 pm
#41 nama1: It’s a figure of speech. You know, a metaphorical brush.
2 Nov 2009, 13:23 pm
#26 puff:
And you would be probably be first in line to ask for PdV head if the team lose all of their matches.
The team has been selected already. The first group of players are on their way to Europe tomorrow. It’s time for us to get behind the WHOLE TEAM as a nation. Stop this back and front about players who did not make it or players that you feel should not be in the squad, please.
2 Nov 2009, 13:25 pm
#42 katman:
And what did you think I thought?
2 Nov 2009, 13:26 pm
#43 nama1:
I would not.
Without Smit, Mtawarira, Van Der Linde, Botha, Matfield, Brussouw, Smith, Spies, Du Preez, M Steyn, Habana, JDV and F Steyn
I would be mad to expect them to win.
I would be delighted if they did.
I would understand if they didn’t.
And if they put up a good fight, I would be even more impressed.
2 Nov 2009, 13:26 pm
tranformation is clearly not working all it will do it send talented players overseas
i always thought corne uys should be in a midweek side hes not a bad centre
2 Nov 2009, 13:32 pm
But what I can say is that Earl is like a new vehicle. You know when it comes on the market people are unsure of its capability. Many will even say it is a dubious car maybe.But after a while, people will realise that this is infact a decent vehicle that is worth driving, you see. Its like a Mini Cooper. People rushed to insult it but look today at what it is. Earl Rose is a very strong vehicle that will take the world by storm. He just needs the driving time.
2 Nov 2009, 13:33 pm
There has been some questionable selection indeed,but 2 soley focus on black selections is a bit short sighted.What about Hargreaves,Bosman,VDMerwe,Viljoen,none of which was selected on merit.Ah,but they r white,so they r merit selections.All white players are always on merit right.
Please stop with this racist articles and write the story as it is…
2 Nov 2009, 13:37 pm
#47 rugbygenius: Sounds like you’re trying to sell me a Fiat Multipla.
2 Nov 2009, 13:39 pm
#49 katman: No I’m selling a concept car – an Aston Martin 2011 model. But so many people fail to see it. They would rather take a Mazda 3 simply because they fear the unknown ! The concept car is a special one. It is a classic.
2 Nov 2009, 13:43 pm
#45 puff:
Good on you. If most supporters would be able to show that kind of attitude, I may agree and say, let’s take that route.
But as you know, we’re SA’s and demand/expect the Bok team to win every match they play in. Just think back to the reaction of the people after the experimentation in the 3rd test vs B&I lions. I don’t think PdV will want to set himself up like that again as he also hate losing.
2 Nov 2009, 13:43 pm
#21 usualsuspect: Derick must feel the same way Chilli feels at the Union. As I’ve said it before and I think someone else here has said it. If PdV was coaching the Bulls, Chilli would be the 1st choice hooker and Derick 2nd.
That being said, being 1st choice or 2nd choice depends on the head coaches preferance…I would like to say it should be mainly on playing ability.
2 Nov 2009, 13:45 pm
#50 rugbygenius: Earl Rose is a Fiat Multipla in purple with suspiciously high mileage and no service history.
2 Nov 2009, 13:50 pm
#53 katman: At the end of the day – Earl is catching the plane to Europe. Instead of insulting him us Bokke fans must do like how the Aussies do and GET BEHIND HIM ! You do not hear Australians insulting the selection of James O’ Connor yes ?
Lets back Earl with all our hearts and souls !
Lets start an Earl fan club – make some Earl t-shirts and coffee mugs etc . Lets get our kids some Earl posters and encourage them to play rugby. Let Earl know we love him and hold him high !
Earl is OUR player ! We must back him against our opponents yes ?
2 Nov 2009, 13:53 pm
ha ha ha ha you can feel as you read the words how amped up keo must’ve been when penning this opus and dying to email it to peter bruce by yesterday afternoon. Cry all you want keo, an article about tokens and players not deserving and no mention of allistair hargreaves, meyer bosman, heinke (@ tighthead), farcical!
Show them up pdv, the provincial coaches have carte blanche to select whoever they want & have been abdicating from further exploring with black players in their teams. Let them eat cake.
2 Nov 2009, 13:57 pm
#54 rugbygenius: He’s still a light purple code 3 Fiat Multipla with shot rings and a Vin number that doesn’t match the chassis number. I’d strongly recommend staying away.
2 Nov 2009, 13:59 pm
#54 rugbygenius: you cannot seriously compare Earl Rose to James O’Connor. O’Connor has more talent at the end of his little toe than Earl Rose will ever have. O’Connor is in the team based on talent alone.
Rose was a decent junior player but he isn’t good enough for senior rugby. He makes the wrong decision too many times and doesn’t seem to be able to cut it at the top.
Rose does not deserve to be there. End of story.
2 Nov 2009, 14:05 pm
#56 katman: I can see I can’t covince you Sir. Fair enough.
#57 fish out of water: As a South African I can only believe Earl is better over some Aussie.
The point with Earl is that he NEEDS SOME OPPORTUNITY ! AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. Even if he fails to perform – he needs consistent selection. Again and again and again . Eventually he will show the world what he is capable of. He needs top flight rugby on a very regular basis. He also has plenty potential ‘star power’ . Attracting young people to the stadiums etc . He would sell many t-shirts etc for SA rugby . he could be a very successful brand .
2 Nov 2009, 14:10 pm
#53 katman: that is funny bru.
2 Nov 2009, 14:11 pm
#58 rugbygenius: As a South African I believe Earl Rose is seriously over rated. He has been given every opportunity under the sun and he hasn’t been able to make it. The only thing he has been capable of is to show that he is not good enough.
Your nickname is a walking contradiction.
2 Nov 2009, 14:12 pm
#6 Bouts: what about Mapoe?
He’s been awesome.
2 Nov 2009, 14:13 pm
#56 katman: Bwahahahaha….very funny
2 Nov 2009, 14:13 pm
#12 siener: with rose it’s not quota, he’s just k*k.
2 Nov 2009, 14:14 pm
#60 fish out of water: We will have to agree to disagree on that one Sir. I’m sorry but Earl has not received anything like a fair chance. He needs much, MUCH more. But you have a right to your opinion. I just say we must unite behind the Bokke on Friday .
2 Nov 2009, 14:18 pm
since john smit, vic matfield & fdp are coaching the side, they must stage a “protest” against all these quotas by not initiating them like the ostracized luke. That will send a message to pdv & his manne that they as the “senior” players are not happy with springbok tracksuits being handed out williy nilly. How many tracksuits does chilli have now? yho he probably could open his own bok spaza now.
2 Nov 2009, 14:20 pm
The best position for Earl “The Pearl” would be carrying the oranges into the change room at half time…
but then again, he might make the incorrect decision and drop the bag…
2 Nov 2009, 14:20 pm
#51 nama1:
Ah yes, well, I can’t speak for anyone but myself.
But, as far as the 3rd B&I Lions test goes, I too would’ve played more of a first-choice line-up to try and ensure a 3-nil drubbing.
This end-of-year tour though – different story.
Although, now that I think about it, I wouldn’t want the Irish to beat us.
They’ve beaten us over there too often lately and Ronan O Gara deserves to be on the losing end again after he arrogantly refused to shake Dewald Potgieter’s hand at the toss-up before the Emerging Boks/B&I Lions game.
Plus the record should be set straight as O Gara blatantly cheated when he took that quick tap while John Smit went to go speak to his players during the White era. Some may call it opportunism and say you shouldn’t blame O Gara, it was the ref’s fault. But still.
Also it’s been a while since we beat France in France, so…
Hmmm…
It seems there’s much to play for on this tour after all.
2 Nov 2009, 14:57 pm
do u really feel chilli boy or maku should be boks
to all those who r mocking keo for this article at least he can tell the truth
or earl rose they r not good enough full stop
and only there for window dressing i am all for black boks
but they must earn it like everyone one else
like adi jacobs or habana they have proven there worth
2 Nov 2009, 15:02 pm
why didnt waylon murray make the bok squad he should have
2 Nov 2009, 16:41 pm
#67 puff:
Yes, much to play for and yet people want our first team Boks to rest and sacrifice the matches against France and Ireland.
Also remember that Italy gave the AB’s a real run for their money earlier in the year. They are not the pushover people make them out to be, especially at home.
2 Nov 2009, 17:02 pm
#68 klippies101: Yes, I think Maku should be the Bulls’ first choice hooker. Kuun is mediocre and Chilli is a sick-note.
None of them is as good as Strauss though. The touring hookers should be Bismarck, Strauss and Maku.
It was a good move to call up Hargreaves. Call it succession planning. The guy has all the physical attributes to be a Test-quality lock – more than 2m tall and more than 110kg. Not many of our young up-and-coming locks actually have the physical stats required of the modern Test lock.
Johann Muller cannot feel hard done by, since he is ****.
Ndungane and Nokwe ahead of Mapoe? WTF???
Meyer Bosman is awesome and thoroughly deserves his call up.
Heinke??? Give me a break. He’s been injured since forever and he isn’t even a tighthead. Having experimented and failed miserably with one loosehead as a back-up tighthead (Deon Carstens), PdV remains adamant that playing a loosehead out of position is the way to go.
2 Nov 2009, 17:21 pm
Cummon guys,
PdV has always wanted to play this open style of fast running rugbyand now he’ll get to do it against the Tigers if his tight five can win some decent ball. I mean- look at the team, guys!
1. Guthro loves to carry and mix it in the tight loose.
2. Chilli likes to carry and drive as well.
3. Jannie Dup has to do little more than anker the scrum.
4. Pakslae is always good for a couple of meters on the front foot.
5. Bekker loves to beat opposition centres on the outside and could probably outsprint Odwa if he really has to.
6. Brussow is already a legend in his time.
7. Dewald is the crown prince of loosies.
8. Ashley is the lucky packet.
9. Heini is mister accurate service.
10.Ruan has all the right moves at FH
11.Jongi can motor
12.WO is sublime this year
13.Juan de Jongh will be the find of the tour.
14. Odwa knows the tryline.
15. Earl, in spite of all his detractors, has the X factor.
So, imho, if this side clicks, we are in for some spectacular running rugby and support play. I would just have liked to see Dewald as captain. Chilli is a little rusted and game-time-shy and will need to focus his full attention on his own game.
2 Nov 2009, 17:37 pm
Ek wens die Boere van SA wil oor hulself kom. Hulle dink hulle het rugby uitgevind en vervolmaak. Hulle arrogansie ken geen perke nie en hul sal selfs hul landgenote slegmaak in hul soeke na daai 1 ding wat van hulle af weggevat is nl. WIT BAASSKAP. Hulle kan dit nie hanteer as dinge nie hul way gaan nie. Maar omdat hulle die media nog beheer, sal hulle ons vertel hoe swak bruin/swart/indier spelers is en hoe BJA BJA goed wit spelers is. Mark Keohane kan die grootste klomp K#@$%K skryf en hy sal nog altyd WIT mense kry wat met hom saamstem. KRY DIT IN JULLE F%&*%N DIK KOPPE. Dis nie net witmense wat kan rugby speel nie. Keo tell me just 1 thing plz. WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THE TOKEN WHITE PLAYERS IN THE CURRENT BOK TEAM????
2 Nov 2009, 17:47 pm
#73 Vaste6: Die boere maak die Bok span ongelukkig………….
Bakkies
Victor
Brussouw
Schalk
Smith
Spies
Du Preez
Morne Steyn
Francios Steyn
De Villiers
Olivier
J. Fourie
so f@#@$#@ aan.
2 Nov 2009, 17:48 pm
The hypocrisy of sa media and certain sections of the public never ceases to amaze me somehow its handing out jerseys to select black players on potential but selecting white guys on potential is ok?
Its almost assumed that when a white guy is selected its on merit and the reverse is assumed to be true so because Maku and chilli aren’t first choice hookersr at their province its assumed they are quotas but somehow Hargreaves also a bench warmer is a merit selection thats blatant double standards. As is often suggested about black players why doesnt Hargreaves turn down his bok blazer because he knows he doesnt deserver selection on merit ?
Don’t get me wrong I disagree with some of the selections but why do we need to single out black players when there are a number of white players who are fortunate to be there as well.
Riaan Viljoens form fell away badly towards the end of the cc
Heinke van der Merwe is very talented but it was a huge issue when ashwin willemse was selected coming back from injury now its fine i mean the guy hasn’t played in 6 months
Francois Hougaard like maku is very talented but third choice at the bulls not settled in the bulls line-up and only got selected on the wing due to injuries
The above selections haven’t even been questioned its blatant double standards. Udue pressure is placed on the black players while guys like Heinke , Hargreaves, Hougaard are allowed to comfortably developer at their and slowly settle into the international scene then we wonder why the black players arent making it at the higher level
2 Nov 2009, 17:48 pm
Ek wil eers die Bulle gelukwens met hulle fantastiese uitslae hierdie jaar!
Ek dink daar is geen twyfel dat hulle die beste in die land is nie.
2 Nov 2009, 17:49 pm
I really don’t understand all the hysteria over the youngsters picked for the midweek games against weakened club sides.
PdeVs looking beyond 2011 and has picked talented young players who probably won’t get much exposure during the S14, that’s all.
Keo has deliberately chosen to ignore the itinerary in order to write a controversial article, instead of applying his mind to analyse the possible reason for the selections.
2 Nov 2009, 17:51 pm
Nallie hoekom verdwyn jy nie net uit SA uit nie. Ons sal jou nie eens mis nie. Dis in elk geval nie jou land nie. Maar julle boere wil die meeste se en net die ander rasse afkraak. So f*&^kof man. Jy en jou wit gespuis.
2 Nov 2009, 17:55 pm
#73 Vaste6:
#78 Vaste6:
2 Nov 2009, 18:03 pm
Jozi just by calling me broer tells me you might be with me on this one. I get very annoyed by this white people, that, when they open their mouths it’s always how bad the rugby players of other races are- read quotas. But yet they are not willing to see when a white player is not chosen on merit. Why must our people from other races always just sit and watch how this BOERE will try to break us down? Our players are also our pride and somehow some people should start standing up for them. They will call us the K$%^KEST of names, yet we must just chill. That’s bullsh%$#t. I’m not chilling anymore. Die boere plus Mark Keohane moet ‘n slag vertel word.
2 Nov 2009, 18:14 pm
The best part for me is that Mark Keohane was more honest this year.
2 Nov 2009, 18:17 pm
Like I said in post 41, Keo, this kind of article does not generate the kind of hits that you would hope for any more. Most bloggers on here try to debate with their brains and leave the emotion out of it. Obviously, as with anything in life, there are exceptions.
Give us informative/analytical articles if you want the hits. Bring the players closer to the bloggers. Where is the Q & A sessions you used to organised with the Bok players? Bring it back.
2 Nov 2009, 18:19 pm
There’s nothing new with some of these selections mind you Keo… JW continued to select the likes of Shimange, Rose (at a time) and even had Wacko at FH at some stage – he also thought that fetcher’s is a make-believe fairytale persona, who’s sometimes good to get a cold bruskie… Likewise, Rudolph selected one of the most sh!test centre’s to have ever braced a Bok jersey in Jorrie. Coaches tend to select favourites (the token quota) etc., what’s important for me is that the starting 22 on the day do reflect our (almost) best test combinations.
On a different note, Harry “$” Viljoen flirted with the idea of kicks being gradually phased out of a rugby contest….
That’s not to say that Mapoe, Vermeulen, Stegman, A. Strauss should not feel disappointed because these dudes played their socks of and richly deserve a spot somewhere in that 37-man squad.
All I’m saying is that this selection disease is a chronic one; PDV won’t be the last to suffer from this. DAMN Sure the chap who wrote “Winning Ways” wasn’t either!
2 Nov 2009, 18:45 pm
#75 Redox: You are 100% correct. This article by keo smacks of racism. Sure, Ndungane, Nokwe, Adi, Rose and Chilli are questionable selections. But so are Hougaard, Viljoen, Kanko, Heinke (I mean seriously, WTF???) and Jannie. Why pick on the black guys, keo?
2 Nov 2009, 18:49 pm
#83 Pot Blou Gevaar:
Good post.
The problem is that everyone regards himself as a super selector and the coach of the team as stupid. In saying that I’m not only referring to PdV as the coach but to any coach, whether at local, provincial or national level.
2 Nov 2009, 18:53 pm
#84 pierre:
To start a fight amongst bloggers and get as much hits as possible.
2 Nov 2009, 19:22 pm
shame..doesnt seem like people are falling for Keo’s tirade judging by the number of comments
thank goodness
2 Nov 2009, 19:52 pm
To all those who respond to this article by speaking of “white quota players”, spare us your idiocy. Dubious selections who happen to be white (Hargreaves, Vd Merwe, Viljoen) cannot be considered quota players, because there is no pro-white quota. So why raise the issue of their race?
On the other hand, dubious black selections are quite obviously race-based. Their race is pertinent because this is what got them selected. That is the point of Keo’s article. Surely you have the mental capacity to understand that?
2 Nov 2009, 19:54 pm
There are no Bok blazers any more, surely? They’ve been replaced with Protea blazers.
2 Nov 2009, 20:28 pm
#78 Vaste6: If the moderator on this site does not have the balls to tell you, I will. Take your rassist rhetoric somewhere else please, and take Nallie with you. This is a rugby blog, and if we express our opinions as rugby fans here it has nothing to do with race. What every White oke, and every black/coloured/indian fan wants, is merit. Current white rugby fans were not respnsible for apartheid- we inherited by being born into it just like you, and just like you we could not choose the colour of our skin. Yes, there are major pricks amongst us, as there are amongst you guys, but by now I’m hoping they are dwindling in numbers. Your outbursts here are just a sad reminder of how deeply rooted racism is in this country. But I continue live in hope !
2 Nov 2009, 20:32 pm
#85 nama1:
Good on you, Pierre
2 Nov 2009, 20:52 pm
I say YES
to Mapoe, Maku, Juan de Jongh, Heini Adams, Zane Kirchner, Davon Raubenheimer, Lwazi Mvovo, Bazooka Vulindlu, Jongi Nokwe, because they all have some degree of merit.
I say NO to Chilliboy, Heinke, and the like because they are there currently , and are having their paths smoothed over at the expense of others- they are there on reputation only. They come back from injury and where I come from, I expect a man to prove his worth. They have not, although they might have potential, they are injury prone and there is nothing anyone can tell me that will change my mind.
The only way for me is if they prove it by playing between the four lines as fully fit players at a level which is at least comparable to other contenders in their position. They don’t have to necesarily be the best now, but show potential to become the best at some point in the near future through talent and application.
If there are no other contenders, then fine, but they cannot be advanced in the face of other serious talent.
2 Nov 2009, 21:26 pm
Typical quota 2nd Xv!! Bannana Republic, bannana 2nd XV! It all matches.
2 Nov 2009, 21:36 pm
Have not read the thread so I am sure somebody must have posted this already. But Hey, I want to say it and I will: Noakes must be brain dead to propose that the Boks must be rested for a BOK GAME OR TEST!!! Rest them during the S14 or CC ffs they are BOKS!!!!!
2 Nov 2009, 21:39 pm
#92 catleya: Heinke not injury prone…that was the 1 st major time out heinke has had??
But i agree with the sentiment…Heinke should have proven fitness first…especially as the switch to 3 is a huge one…
2 Nov 2009, 21:56 pm
#95 grant10: My prediction: you put on dry pants as Heinke is going to kak at TH!!!
2 Nov 2009, 21:58 pm
#96 Boerboel: Fancy seeing you here!!
Are all the Keoites at the Awards at the moment?
Tumble weed blowing through here!
2 Nov 2009, 22:54 pm
#95 grant10:
Your sentiment about the change to three is exactly my point about Heinke. Even the best and fittest loosehead will require a lot of gametime to make the switch. How can they expect him to do it after such a major op and lay-off. It is crazy.
3 Nov 2009, 01:18 am
It’s sickening, really. Why leave out good players of colour like Mapoe…
Only guys deserving to be there are Habana, Pietersen, Beast, Ndungane and maybe Kirchner.
Bench boy Chili leading the Springboks (even if it is a zed grade side) puts a sour taste in my mouth.
3 Nov 2009, 02:04 am
Obviously some dubious choices. PDV has his views and he is a stubborn old stick. However, the Bok team is winning and all the players who tour contribute. So why not have some questionable choices. Why should a provincial coach infulence the Nok coach. One must assume that PDV has seen enought to ensure that his choice is solid.
Its all very well giving someone the job but then complaining how he does it even when he doing well at his job. This is South Africa where not too much always makes sense
3 Nov 2009, 04:05 am
I don’t know about everyone else but I find Keo’s columns too pretentious and a bit condescending.
Anyway I have to agree that Mapoe had to be in the team and that Earl Rose isn’t worth this much loyalty. He just doesn’t have the look of a Springbok he has no positive attributes that make up for his negatives. He’s been playing at a respectable level for a while now and even now he hasn’t even shown a glimpse of potential.
To put it bluntly, the odd token player might have been tolerated but to have a player who deserved a shot miss out because of said token player is despicable.
3 Nov 2009, 04:59 am
#40 rugbygenius: #47 rugbygenius: #50 rugbygenius: #54 rugbygenius: #58 rugbygenius: #64 rugbygenius:
It’s blindingly obvious from your impassioned posts that you are either:
a) Earl Rose
b) Earl Rose’s father
c) Peter De Villiers
I suspect you’d have better luck trying to convince us all that the Earth is flat.
3 Nov 2009, 05:03 am
#24 toughnrumble: Good post.
3 Nov 2009, 09:06 am
Token Selections, no wonder so many quality players are playing Rugby in Europe.
3 Nov 2009, 09:30 am
Blah blah blah blah blah. Shut up Keo. Same old story. You keep rehashing this article year after year. If anyone is past their sell by date its you.
Get some fresh blood into Highbury.
3 Nov 2009, 09:46 am
what?? only 105 comments so far on another race related KEO post??? advertisers are going to sit up and take notice and take their business elsewhere soon…
3 Nov 2009, 10:19 am
#102 wooden spoon: I bet he is earl himself. earl shouldnt be allowed to play beach touch rugby.
3 Nov 2009, 13:10 pm
While I do agree with the comments, I will say this:
There are many, many people eating humble pie who said PDV didn’t know what he was doing…. maybe he has a plan with these guys.
Earl Rose is the kind of player that can have an absolute blinder and earn man-of-the-match. Unfortunately though he will generally follow it up with a match-losing performace the next week…
But I, for one, will wait and see.
3 Nov 2009, 15:21 pm
At least PdV’s approach is straight unlike that Athletics South Africa Chief who lied to Caster and the world.
I can live with PdV as long as he wins. He’s not the first coach to give touring tickets to favourites nor is he going to be the last.
Harry Viljoen and Rudolf did their fair share of devaluing the bok jersey.
I say, take it easy keo, Noakes and all the Winning Way surrogates.
3 Nov 2009, 15:22 pm
Eidrich Lubbe; Quota or merit?
3 Nov 2009, 15:39 pm
89 THE TACKLER
Stofile did not succeed. Bok blazer still in use. President JZ has a way of massaging the Afrikaner community.
3 Nov 2009, 16:59 pm
oh well as per usual these guys are going to break down and probaly in the wet surfaces of the northern hemisphere
3 Nov 2009, 20:09 pm
Let us be honest,some selection are made simply to satisfy
the politicians.If you select on merit Mapoe would be first choice and Joe pietersen ahead of Viljoen.
The Boks have an excellent 22,the A-team,so the natural next step is to find replaements for your A -team, by simply asking
who is next in line.
If Morne suffers an injury who will take over the position and
not disrupt the pattern of play and so on.Now Rose has been
tested on flyhalf and full back and has been found wanting in
both positions.
So taking him on tour is a huge gamble and if he is found
wanting he may well cost the Boks their first tour match as
he was solely responsible for a number of Lions losses.
If you are not good enough at Currie Cup level you are not
going to be good enough at international level.
4 Nov 2009, 04:38 am
There are some token selections but also token selections for oldmates and some for the provinces. The 2 hookers are wrong and Earl in the Northern hemisphere is tragic. Mapoe, Juries, Stick and Mpho Mzukisi Mbiyozo are obvious selection mishaps.
Mpho Mzukisi Mbiyozo is one great player and should have toured.
Dinorasaraus and some of the senior players(older ones) should have been rested.
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