Gatland attacks refs
7 Nov 2009
Warren Gatland continued his verbal tirade this week as he said Craig Joubert was the reason for their loss to the All Blacks.
Gatland had a lot to say after his side lost to the Springboks last year, while he also believes the All Blacks have lost their aura. New Zealand may have, but his side were completely outplayed at the Millennium Stadium and were fortunate to lose just 19-12.
That hasn’t stopped him from blaming referee Joubert, who he believes missed a high tackle from Dan Carter on reserve scrumhalf Martin Roberts.
‘If that had happened at the other end, then it would have been a penalty and a yellow card,’ Gatland told BBC Sport. ‘It was a head-high tackle. And all the officials missed it, so we are pretty disappointed with that.’
All Blacks coach Graham Henry defended Carter’s tackle.
‘I think that’s a bit of a stretch,’ said Henry. ‘I just saw it at the moment, I didn’t look at the replay at all. It seemed to me he hit him around the chest and slid up, and the other guy ducked under. But who knows? Till you look at those things over several views you can’t make a decision.’
Wales were only afforded the undeserved chance to win the game with a loose pass from Jimmy Cowan, which meant they intercepted and broke down field. They were also lucky not to be carded for several cynical penalties on defence, but Gatland believes officials are afraid to penalise the All Blacks.
‘The frustrating thing… was not getting some 50-50 calls,’ he said.
‘You just want some calls to go your way. It’s trying to change referees’ opinions about not wanting to referee an upset.
‘We’ve got to keep playing positive rugby and win them over.’
Henry was not so diplomatic when asked about Gatland’s claims that the Kiwis are officiated differently.
‘It’s complete rubbish. I think that’s a huge stretch. I don’t even think Warren would believe that,’ he said. When told about Gatland’s claims, Henry replied: ‘Yeah, but he’s said a lot of things this week.’
81 Comments
8 Nov 2009, 12:50 pm
Gatland you team lost accept it. ABs were the better team on the day and deserved their win.
8 Nov 2009, 13:05 pm
In real time………..I didn’t even notice it was high.
After the the 475 replays I had to endure for the remainder of the game…..yes it was high.
As for bad mouthing Joubert. I thought he had a magnificent game.
Largely the match was played in a good and competitive spirit.
This was in no small part due to Jouberts, style, and professionalism.
The kick to Leonard’s head……..how many replays did that get?
Even as a biased AB supporter, I think the best team won.
But full credit to Wales, they are certainly on the UP.
8 Nov 2009, 13:17 pm
As a neutral observer I thought Joubert’s performance was pretty good. Shorter players always seem to get away with high tackles easier. Joubert wouldnt have seen extent of the high tackle from his angle nor the blindside touchjudge. Lawrence was probably a good 30m from the tackle point , it wouldnt have been easy for him to pick it up.
8 Nov 2009, 13:36 pm
This guy is becoming a joke he sounds like a English football manager after a game against Man U blaming the ref to cover up shortcomings in there game
Fact of the matter is the Abs scored a try and should have had another 3 while the only chance for Wales was a lucky intercept by there lock and they couldnt even finish that.
This guys aim is to coach the Abs i cant say many Kiwis would want this idiot running there team
8 Nov 2009, 13:58 pm
it seems even an auraless all black team still has what it takes to beat wales .joubert had a pretty good game and actually should have awarded the blacks a few more penalties due to wales continously infringing at ruck time (mainly martyn williams)
8 Nov 2009, 14:04 pm
it just occured to me , Matthew tackled mccaw without the ball and mccaw got penalised for not rolling away ???wales kicked the three points!!!!!! if anything GH should be complaining
8 Nov 2009, 14:05 pm
Well, there are 2 issues here.
the Kiwis DO get away with an amazing amount of 50/50′s and illegal infrigements.
The Taffs were not the best side on display anyway.
8 Nov 2009, 14:42 pm
Please highlight where Gatland has said Joubert was the reason that Wales lost because I can’t see it!
I thought Joubert had a good game, apart from one or two calls that were highlighted by the slow-motion replays. I think Carters tackle on the scrum-half was a penalty and nothing more, it wasn’t malicious and it wasn’t intentional but it was high.
Maybe if Alun-Wyn Jones had ran into the left corner instead of running towards the covering run of the AB winger (Jane or Guildford) they might have scraped a draw. The ref certainly didn’t have an undue influence on the result and Gatland will probably regret speaking out in the heat of the moment when he reads todays papers!
8 Nov 2009, 14:47 pm
Joubert had a good game. The commentators often questioned his calls and then agreed with him after watching the slomos… except the Carter tackle… which I believe wasn’t that bad… had the guy not ducked forward into it Carter’s arm would’ve been chest high… No probs…
Thing is Gatland has to shout louder now than he did last week to justify how loudly he shouted last week…
Gatland is fast catching Graham Henry for the title of the Denatonium King of world rugby…
Was quite impressed by Ryan Jones though…
Thought the AB loosies were pretty medicore in the first half… and did much better in the second…
Also thought it ironic after the 3N… just how much kicking Carter did… Seems it’s boring rugby and we should change the rules when the Boks kick… but it a clever strategy when the ABs do the same…
Still well done to the ABs and Wallabies…
8 Nov 2009, 15:02 pm
Does anyone remember the “Whine tasting” section in the SA Sports Illustrated (Keo please don’t ban me!) a couple years back?
Gatland would be perfect for it. A natural successor to Eddie Moans as he was known at the time…
8 Nov 2009, 15:35 pm
Gatland the cry baby continues …………. this time its Wales, 3 mnths ago it was the Lions. Shut the f….k up and take ur hiding like a man.
8 Nov 2009, 15:46 pm
It seems all the time he spent with Ian “we deserved to win” Mc Geechan on the lions tour rubbed off on him because the excuses are coming thick and fast. Most northern hemisphere players and coaches seem to be completely incapable of giving credit where it’s due. Being strsangled for 70 minutes of a match then making a frantic comeback doesn’t mean you deserve to win.
8 Nov 2009, 15:53 pm
Problem I have is not generally with the refs – they have a high pressure job to do and under the circumstances normally do well.
The problem I have is with the touch officials – all they have to do is watch the play and keep in line with the ball – they miss a lot of incidents and DEFINITELY miss a hellava lot of forward passes. Just look at the blatant forward pass to Bryan Habana in the CC final 2 weeks ago – get rid of the blind bats and use the telly replay instead I say.
8 Nov 2009, 17:08 pm
Gatland: shh.
A couple of things here: The Kiwis were not impressive in this game, but were better than Wales and deserved to win. Carter also wasn’t particularly impressive, throwing at least one poor pass, dropping a couple of high balls and putting in a few unconvincing kicks (as well as more good ones; he certainly did kick a lot as others have noted). I was surprised that he got MOTM, but not as surprised as the Welsh lassie who interviewed him after the game. You could see Carter was getting pissed off with her!
8 Nov 2009, 17:22 pm
#14 kaksioek: yeh and mccaw rolled his eyes at her when she asked about the tackle
8 Nov 2009, 17:37 pm
what they complaining about, this is about as close they ever got, unless one counts that sneaky win in the 1950s, gatland is def a bit of a cry baby bunting, then again perhaps he big maestro ****-stirrer.
8 Nov 2009, 20:41 pm
How does he say the All Blacks have lost their aura and claim that officials are still afraid to make calls against the ABs? Wouldn’t that ability to influence match officials based on who you are fall under the All Black Mystic?
And Wales got beat hands down.
8 Nov 2009, 23:40 pm
#3 Lions_Soutie:
whats ‘neutral’ about a Safa commenting on the performance of a Safa ref ?
nada
Safas seem to have the same blind orthodox fanaticism about their refs as they do for their players. In no other country can this be said. All Safa refs are, supposedly, above reproach and from good families whilst the rest from everywhere else are all heathen “cheats”.*
Craig Joubert is a catastrophic pantomime viliian if Ive ever seen 1.
Craig Joubert is the guy on Wanted posters on the Death Row wing.
Craig Joubert’s whistle gives Hellraiser nightmares.
Craig Joubert played backwards on 78 is ‘Beelzebub is King’.
8 Nov 2009, 23:47 pm
#7 Brigadier Van Zyl:
Ok you said an amazing amount of 50/50s go NZs way.
So it should be easy to name 10 from Saturdays/Sundays match,can you name them please.
As for 50/50 call,wales got a few like the 2 yellow cards they got away with for professional fouls on there try line.
By the way we lost 3 times against the Boks this year and you still say we get away with illegal tactics and get the 50/50 calls,silly post from you if you ask me
8 Nov 2009, 23:48 pm
#6 mbaxman93:
and if it wasnt a ‘tackle’ exactly it was most certain a shirt-pull that stopped The King from getting a miraculous pickup of the pill. McCaw at his best.
The bit I rated most was how, knowing that he had been fouled only to have a pen awarded against him, the King just nodded, raised his hand and retreated back to his troops immediately to rally them again as Jones stepped up for the kick. Not a hint of complaint to Joubert who missed it all, just accepted that he’s a moron and moved on.
The Bokke would have been voting for what it said on the next armband already if it was Smit.
8 Nov 2009, 23:57 pm
#15 mbaxman93:
Too right. Her ‘Ques’ was off topic only for her to just suddenly slip in the ‘high tackle’ suddenly as if it was ‘the reason why Wales didnt win’.
Those BBC interviewiers were stitching up all ABs, incl Wayne Smith later – fkwit supreme High Priest, Brian Moore, even suggesting Carter should be Cited – for a marginal high’tackle that at no stage hit the neck/head – and it was a bit gutter press redtop from the BBC.
Loved that look from McCaw. Looked a bit like Sir Alex.
ABs winning and Chels beating ManU scum in the one week…….HAPPY DAYS !
9 Nov 2009, 00:08 am
Carter HAS been Cited for that tackle ! unfarkenbelievable.
What complete BS. That is no less than a complete media-driven Hierarchy stitchup. That tackle was marginal at best. Did the crowd scream immediately in realtime ? No ! If a knowledgeable crowd scream immediately then you know something could be wrong. You know a coathanger when you see 1 immed. But, NO, the crowd only reacted after a real slo-mo replay.
Its a stitchup to appease the newspaper giants of the World and sell advertising space for the next week.
Watch the ABs tho, fellas. They wont complain.
How desperate, really, are the Brits after all the pastings theyve had on home soil these past few years ?
9 Nov 2009, 00:33 am
#22 WakaNathan: the citing commissioner is Australian, unless you take Crouchback’s view that Ozzies are Brits then I’m afraid you’ll have to retract that one waka
9 Nov 2009, 00:56 am
#23 Big Hit:
Lets not confuse things BH. Im not saying it is the Citing Officer per se, altho there would have been huge pressure on him to Cite DC.
But Moores appalling commentary, Jonathan Davies embarrassing studio outburst, the BBC female interveiwer persisting with ‘high-tackle’ as if it was a foregone consclusion – levelled at Carter himself, livem while getting the MoM Award, then McCaw, then Wayne Smith ? ? ? ?
No, that is a complete Brit-media stitchup built on the foundations of many consecutive years of not having beaten the TriN teams. No less.
Its ****. Cite away, if thats how you think Victories are conceived !
9 Nov 2009, 01:00 am
#23 Big Hit:
Stick your retraction up Brian Moores poephole, twist it til his eyes water, set it alight with a flamethrower, and I tell you that farker would light the sky more than Chinese New Year and Guy Fawkes combined.
What a nasty fly-ridden and festering pile of bulldog **** he is.
9 Nov 2009, 01:05 am
#25 WakaNathan: you seem pretty upset about this. Was it not Eddie Butler, the Welshman who suggested there would be further action? Brian Moore gave Carter man of the match in spite of the blemish. No offence waka but you’re sounding like some South African posters after the Burger incident who you criticised for defending the incident.
9 Nov 2009, 01:20 am
#23 Big Hit:
Brian Moore makes ‘Eddie and Steve-O’ – the Super League PR ‘commentators’ – look almost neutral.
9 Nov 2009, 01:25 am
Joubert is a cockroach. When ever I see him reffing and AB game I know they will never lose. Ever since he missed that Hines tackle on Sivivatu without the ball in 2008 he has been really trying to make up for it. He LOVES his New Zealand, there is no other way to explain it.
Thank goodness he will never ref a Bok-Ab game.
9 Nov 2009, 01:28 am
#26 Big Hit:
No offence taken, BH. I would have thought comparing a marginal high-tackle with a blatant 1st min eye-gouge as somewhat blurring the lines but given Brian Moores bewitching of the tv audience in England who tuned in for their 1st armchair match of the year, then you can be comforted by the fact that you are only 1 of many fools who bought it.
9 Nov 2009, 01:28 am
#27 WakaNathan: I think the female interviewer was worse to be honest. She is pretty tactless.
9 Nov 2009, 01:30 am
#29 WakaNathan: don’t think it was marginal, he clearly caught him on the side of the face which is high but I suspect we won’t agree on this one.
9 Nov 2009, 01:34 am
#28 Kobus Kitty:
Was he not the ref at Durban this year who allowed Kockott to take a quick lineout throw as the matchball continued its ascent in to Row Z ? Of course the Sharks, who were trailing at the time, then scored under the posts as the Hurricanes lifted their arms in bemusement at Joubert who had a laugh with Smit as they returned to halfway for the restart.
If you truly have the demented belief that Joubert is in awe from NZ teams, then please take it from this 1 Kiwi that you can have him back immediately, I’ll pay the courier fee and Idiots Insurance myself. But, please, keep him. Keep him locked up, where he should be.
9 Nov 2009, 01:37 am
#30 Big Hit:
‘tactless’ is the most tactful expression you could give. It was beyond the pall, esp for BBC. No word Fergy refuses to talk to them.
What was clear, esp during the McCaw interviewer, that whoever BBC Producer it was, was shouting in her ear to keep repeating the ‘high-tackle’.
The BBC has turned in to The Sun.
9 Nov 2009, 01:42 am
#31 Big Hit:
What it was was a penalisable offence. No more. It caught him across the shoulders, did not connect directly with his head. But I didnt hear the crowd Boooo immediately, did you ? Sure, in slo-mo it looks worse. But a YC offence ???
No, thats marginal.
Cite away. But you’ll wait a long time to hear AB Management complain. Im sure Gatland is off the Christmas Card list tho, the sour grape is infectious in thar valleys.
9 Nov 2009, 02:00 am
#28 Kobus Kitty:
Can you post all Jouberts games please that he has reffed. You must have that info at hand,as you have stated that the ABs never lose with Joubert reffing.
9 Nov 2009, 02:36 am
#35 Hurricane:
ABs lost to Aus with Joubert reffing. Didnt he YC Hayman ? Was it his 1st Test ? It was buffoonery at its most extreme.
9 Nov 2009, 08:42 am
That’s what happens if you shoot your mouth off before the game. Wales did it last year against the boks, this year against the blacks. They should learn to shut up and do their talking on the field. This reminds me of the BIL tour where they were equally poor losers.
9 Nov 2009, 09:21 am
#21 WakaNathan: Hehe welcome to the garbage we had to put up with from these NH w***rs and their puerile grovelling gutter press the entire Lions tour!
9 Nov 2009, 10:19 am
Are we sure that Gatland is a Kiwi because he whines like an Aussie
9 Nov 2009, 10:22 am
#38 Atreides:
rest assured, we had already eaten at the UK laid-on smorgasbord of hypocricy during the 2005 Lions tour and any visit by C.Woodward.
9 Nov 2009, 10:45 am
#34 Hurricane:
Oh! Hurricane! hows Cape Town?
Joubert may have cost the ABs a comeback win over the Wallabies in 2008 due to missing a player (sivivatu) getting tackled without the ball by Hines. It could have been a penalty try… most likely a penalty though.
Ever since that game he has obviously felt guilty about, he has raised his game. Very rarely does he penalize the Abs in their own half.
9 Nov 2009, 11:40 am
#33 WakaNathan: Ag shame Waka… reminds me of Bakkies Botha getting banned for clearing out the prop in the Lions Test, clearly wrong, but hey we had to endure that, so suck it up here.
9 Nov 2009, 11:57 am
#39 WakaNathan: Well the best way to shut their pie-holes would be a test clean sweep by all 3 SH nations on the tour…so Go Bokke, AB’s and Wallabies!!! will be shouting my lungs out for all 3 of them, just to see the sour miserable expressions, hehehe
9 Nov 2009, 12:24 pm
#42 Atreides: Me too, said the same thing last week. They talk a good game but more often than not they fail miserably to deliver when it matters most.
Lots of excuses when they lose and on the rare occassion when they win, they go on and on and on……
Big Hit, How’s the general feeling about Martin Johnson as head coach. His record is not looking good?
9 Nov 2009, 12:50 pm
Another key point.. The foul play that resulted in a penalty on the Welsh tryline. The decision was made by the TMO. Not a try, ball was knocked on, but penalty for playing the ball on the ground. If the foul was not committed, it would have been a try. Why not a penalty try?
As for the high tackle.. c’mon people, this isn’t netball. Toughen up fgs.
9 Nov 2009, 13:51 pm
#42 Cobusvj:
I must have missed that particular ‘clearing out’.
Fortunately the cameras didnt miss Bakkies flying no-hands headbutt, from the side, in to the unprotected midriff of the oppositions key player, using the same technique he has been warned about, cited and banned for on previous occasions.
I suppose Wales could have done that key player vs the All Blacks on Saturday. Unfortunately for them his major injury took him out of all rugby for 6months and he is still in rehab.
#43 Atreides:
I dont really buy in to this SH-allegiance theory. Im happy to see Boks beat Engl but love watching France play and, hopefully, beat my main rivals. Particularly this year with France taking the Tests to the rugby regions to packed houses at Toulouse and Marseille. The atmosphere will be electric.
9 Nov 2009, 13:57 pm
#45 pietskeade:
There were so many poor calls, both ways, in Cardiff that what should really have shown as a 20+pt whupping on the scoreboard was somehow conjured in a 70-yard interception dash for glory at the other end.
Sheer incompetence. As for the TMO, you win some you lose some and technology is now preventing tries being scored that would have been given by refs a short time ago.
Conrad Smith clearly scored. But remember Jamie Noon scored a perfectly good try vs ABS in the opening mins of 2007/08 (?) at HQ but was adjudged ‘held up’ for the sheer ridiculousness of the ball being unsighted until only 2 bodies, not a pile-up.
And the Boks would have lost at home in 1998 when James Dalton clearly didnt touch down in the final minute, given he was at lying on the top of the pile-up like a cherry on a fruit cake.
9 Nov 2009, 15:19 pm
#45 WakaNathan: Allegiance? Whoa lets not get ahead of ourselves here….I would normally love watching France play the AB’s but this time round I will relish the idea of a 3N whitewash of the NH….but only this time
As for Carter’s tackle…..watched the replays at lunchtime, and I have to say I agree with the citing….no hint of an attempt at tackling low, plus the swinging arm….He didn’t tackle him, he took him out. Censure where censure is due, like I’ve always said.
9 Nov 2009, 16:23 pm
For me it looked a rather high and 50/50 chance that the other refwould give at least a penalty, maybe even yellow. Nothing deserving capital punishment though or more than 1 week ban.
Anyway, “Wales are edging even closer to the New Zealand and 70 years of hurt may end soon,” in year 2023 says “Cardiff Post”.
9 Nov 2009, 16:25 pm
#48 Nils: good post Nils I agree, but would maybe change it to 70/30 in favour of a penalty and 60/40 in favour of a yellow if a ref had spotted it
9 Nov 2009, 16:34 pm
#49 Big Hit: True, digits in chances may be different, too. It depends on ref, distance, biases (to or against) and many other things.
9 Nov 2009, 17:07 pm
#48 Nils: Unfortunate that it would result in a ban, perhaps, but the ref didn’t spot it so there has to be follow up
9 Nov 2009, 17:36 pm
phew…good thing kiwi supporters never ***** about citings.
waka… that was a rave of note
baxxies?
9 Nov 2009, 17:38 pm
#51 Atreides: No problems with a ban, it looked high to me and as DC is not known as a player with dirty history, 1 week should be enough, imho.
I do not think he would have been considered for Test in Italy anyway.
9 Nov 2009, 17:46 pm
Gatland should learn from Div’s mouth, crying doesn’t win you any friends.
When you lose, take it like a man ffs. Whiney, whingey people have no place in rugby.
9 Nov 2009, 17:46 pm
#48 Atreides:
The fact you have to ‘watch the replay’, and that the crowd only reacted after they too ‘watched the replay’ and that the Citing was manufactured ‘from the replay’ tells you everything you need to know about the tackle.
It looked fair at realtime and only marginal on slo-mo.
Check the slo-mo again and you’ll see Carters hand attached to Roberts arm, below his shoulder. How can that be ‘high’ ?
#52 Atreides:
What were you expecting from Craig Joubert ? He’d ‘miss’ his own birthday if Barney the Dinosaur didnt keep sending him those cards.
9 Nov 2009, 17:48 pm
#53 charo:
Thats the differene tho, Charo. We are but fans, ‘whinging’ (opining) is all we’ve got.
Not the AB Management or Players tho.
BaXXies !
9 Nov 2009, 17:50 pm
#55 WakaNathan: It was high, it deserved a card. Most players would get a card for that. Crying about it afterward like Gatland is doing is poor form though.
He needs to grow a pair and stop whining like a Capetonian.
9 Nov 2009, 17:51 pm
#51 Atreides: And while Gatland/Edwards have a point complaining about unpunished DC and thus possible 3 points (and even possible momentum, if DC is binned) gone begging I do not think that’s the reason Wales lost.
For all their puffing and huffing in the 1st half all they got was 6 points, ABs comfortably kept them at bay and in the 2nd half hosts were fortunate not to concede more tries, apart from that DC’s interrupted sprint they did not looked like scoring. 1 try in last 4 Tests (all at home, by the way) and even that one was scored when all was over long ago – says enough.
That’s why I find it a bit ironic when I read in Welsh papers (online) about “frightened” ABs and “how close” Wales were to winning. Phew. I remember only one single time in last decades when they were close to winning – that was in 2004. That was mighty close indeed. In all other Tests since golden 70s they were smashed to bits every time.
And while Wales did well to compete this time, they were clearly second best yet again.
9 Nov 2009, 17:55 pm
#58 Nils: they were close in 2003 too at the World Cup. I think the Welsh know they were second best but 57 years is a long time, beating NZ again would feel like winning a World Cup to them so spare a thought.
9 Nov 2009, 17:58 pm
We will see if there is any consistancy in this. If dc was a Springbok it would be a min of 4 weeks suspension. I remember a “high tackle” from JP Nel (Bulls) on Stefan Terblance (Shatks) in this years Super 14. He got suspended 4 weeks.
9 Nov 2009, 18:05 pm
#59 Big Hit: You mean, 16 points difference in the end was that close? OK, they did fine in the 1st, even went ahead for a moment, good work, but I clearly saw that ABs had an answer every time and since mid 2nd hald it was one way traffic.
Unlike 2004 when it went down to the wire and could end in Welsh victory. They did not believe in themselves, it seems, and got punished.
Of course, one day Wales will beat NZ again, I have no doubt. I do have doubts, whether it will happen soon. It must be demoralizing – playing them every year at home – and coming off empty handed each and every time. And to keep in mind that not always ABs will look so vulnerable as this year.
It will require 2 things in one moment – 1) Wales have to play brilliantly, 2) NZ have to play average at best. No other way Wales will beat them.
9 Nov 2009, 18:08 pm
#61 Nils: well it’s a long time ago now but my memory has it that the 2003 match was in the balance for much of the game, Shane Williams gave them the runaround. Agree with you about 2004. Wales will beat NZ again, but not while Gatland’s around to wind the opposition up.
9 Nov 2009, 18:12 pm
#62 Big Hit: you are right – for much of the game. Just not for full 80.
I think it’s not about Gatland at all. ABs have an extra motivation vs Wales with or without him. For a simple reason – nobody wants do go down in history as a member of a squad who ruined it all. Exactly like versus Scotland and especially Ireland – who want’s to be the infamous first one?
9 Nov 2009, 18:13 pm
#61 Bl@de Runner:
I remember countless high, illegal no-arm tackles by Butcher James that he got clean off.
Stop with the persecution complex, my nostrils begin to flare.
9 Nov 2009, 18:19 pm
#63 Nils: NZ aren’t unbeaten against Wales like they are against Scotland and Ireland. I think Wales might have sneaked an upset if they had a silent build-up instead of Gatland’s talk about auras. Even Carter said it motivated him.
9 Nov 2009, 18:20 pm
#62 Big Hit: And while I have my full respect for Welsh and Irish rugby (and Scottish, too, despite the fact they are far behind), it makes very satisfactory feeling that these proud rugby nations come unstuck against the ABs and could not muster a single win in 21, 21 and 26 times of trying respectively.
9 Nov 2009, 18:23 pm
#65 Big Hit: for last 56 years and 21 time they are.
Gatland is a stirrer, you are right. Yet I am sure, that was not the main source of motivation, it could have been Ruddock or Jenkins opposite – and aBs would have been motivated.
If head coach’s big mouth alone do such a damage to his own team, South Africa should have been beaten this year many times. But they aren’t Wales.
9 Nov 2009, 18:27 pm
#67 Nils: I’m not so sure. The way to catch an upset victory against any team is to surprise the opposition. NZ were surprised by Italy’s commitment this year for example and struggled to put them away until 2/3rds of the way through the game. Gatland ruins the element of surprise by talking so much and Wales play into NZ’s hands with all the haka fuss.
9 Nov 2009, 18:31 pm
#68 Big Hit: Yes, NZ struggled then. As you remember, they had overall poor start of the season. Now, I do not think they will be surprised, they know, Italy will put a decent fight – not meekly surrender like in 07.
As for Wales, I am not sure, they can surprised anyone, as everybody concerned already knows they are dangerous and to be taken very seriously.
9 Nov 2009, 18:32 pm
I wonder how happy the AB and their supporters would be if Richie McCaw got spear tackled without the ball after the whistle (john Smit & Brad Thorn) and the other player didn’t get cited, or if Dan Carter got taken out trying to catch a high ball (Fourie Du Preez & Matt Giteau) and again the other player didn’t get cited.
If Bakkies clearing of the ruck was illegal then Brad Thorn, Alun-Wyn Jones, Luke Charteris, Jason Eaton,Matthew Rees, Neemia Tialata ect. ect. Should all have faced a citing this week.
9 Nov 2009, 18:34 pm
#70 JA-JA: Unfortunately old Bakkies has such a long trail of “history”, it could be tied around the globe.
9 Nov 2009, 18:41 pm
How come Gatland’s got nothin’ to say about Stuart Dickensons piss-poor performance
9 Nov 2009, 18:43 pm
#71 Nils: How many times has Bakkies been cited and found guilty compared with other tight five players or loose forwards?
It would actually be interesting to see and compare.
9 Nov 2009, 18:46 pm
#72 Storm outta hell: Now there is a ref that can’t see anything, think they must strap some binoculars to his face.
9 Nov 2009, 18:52 pm
#70 JA-JA: Actually Thorn was cited that time. But yes, it would be interesting to compare Bakkies CV with others.
10 Nov 2009, 00:32 am
#71 JA-JA:
Bakkies ‘clearing of the ruck’ also happens to closely resemble flying in from the side, no-hands, face-down headbutts. Of course he knows this is illegal because before the Lions Series he had been banned for it playing for the Bulls and had been cited for the same act in a Test match vs Australia (Capt Mortlock carted off immediately).
Thats not ‘clearing of the ruck’ and never was. It is ‘dangerous play’ tho however.
#74 JA-JA:
Lets not forget Bakkies was cited for and banned for dangerous play after his debut Test match either.
JUSTICE4 my @rse.
10 Nov 2009, 11:49 am
#55 WakaNathan: erm…I watched the replay because I didn’t watch the match lol
In any event, aren’t all citings decided on the video evidence? I thought that’s how it works?
The Bakkies clean-out you’ve based your life’s crusade on seemed quite innocuous in ‘real time’, and I didn’t hear any reaction from the crowd there, so does that automatically, by your reasoning, make it an unfair punishment? It’s a really silly measure of guilt or lack thereof. The tackle was high and he swung in with his arm, end of story. I personally think a penalty and MAYBE a yellow would have sufficed, given that it was a professional foul, but it wasn’t picked up and hence the citing.
Phew lucky we won’t hear the kiwi’s complain though!
10 Nov 2009, 11:51 am
#58 Nils: They were beaten outright, for sure…..no way a yellow there would have swung the game back, IMO…the AB’s had the measure of them easily
10 Nov 2009, 13:19 pm
#78 Atreides:
its funny how you view the Bakkies-cleanout as MY crusade. Strangely enough I see it rather differently. In fact, I see the Armband as the culmination of a decade-long Safa Crusade based on the victimisation and persecution of their rugby peoples via referees, citing commissioners, travel, quotas…..
But, then, thats just me.
Atriedes, I do however like your analogy with the realtime Bakkies crowd reaction. Answer me this tho – is there any correlation between the crowd reaction when the Victim is the home-player or the away player ? Put it this way, Im yet to see a Safa supporter get on his feet and boo a Bok for foul play be it high-tackle, eye-gouge or flying-headbutt. However, on the rare occassion that the Victim is the home-player, well….
11 Nov 2009, 16:52 pm
#79 WakaNathan: Had thought of that, the gigantic contingent of Lions supporters would have made it clear!
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