PdV to blame for Leicester disgrace
Peter de Villiers must take responsibility for his poor selections and the embarrassment that followed in Leicester on Friday.
It’s all good and well lauding De Villiers when his first-choice side steamroll opponents, but now when an opportunity presents itself to mould an inexperienced group, he and his fellow coaching staff looked out of their depth.
The Springbok ’second-choice’ XV were annihilated by a club side without at least 16 of their regulars, also not helping their synergy. The Bok coaching staff will point to the lack of preparation time, but in that situation the common sense option is to pick combinations at provincial level. De Villiers ignored this, and the result was a disorganised showing in all facets that led to the South Africans being out-muscled.
While De Villiers stated this tour was about gauging his next best, his refusal to pick form players from the Currie Cup has now left him with more questions than answers.
This team were led out to be exposed by stupid selections and from numbers 1 to 22 there are few success stories from Welford Road.
De Villiers stated in the latest issue of SA Rugby magazine how his technical knowledge of the scrum is the best in the Bok camp. But if that was the case, he would’ve known before this match that Gurthro Steenkamp would’ve repeatedly unbound and taken his head out of the scrum, resulting in penalty after penalty. Instead of choosing Wian du Preez – who is now heading to Munster – and the rest of the Cheetahs front-row as a unit, they were all watching this debacle on TV.
That Chiliboy Ralepelle – the Bulls’ second-choice hooker – had the opportunity to lead his country after not being fit to take part in a Currie Cup final six days earlier is ludicrous. It wasn’t surprising he limped off after 20 minutes, and he should be on the next plane home. Jannie du Plessis’ days in the Bok set-up should also be numbered as he failed to produce any leadership or grunt required. How Heinke van der Merwe was suppose to perform after not playing in six months is a mystery, and one shudders at the thought of him having to play tighthead on this tour.
Danie Rossouw was a frustrated figure with the lack of leadership, and while he tried all night, it wasn’t enough. Andries Bekker also toiled throughout, but in a disorganised side, it was very difficult. That the Sharks’ fourth-choice lock Alistair Hargreaves came on to try and resurrect matters said it all. Even against 20-year-old rookies, Hargreaves was out of his depth and he would have benefited more from an Isaac Ross-course in bulking up over the summer.
Ashley Johnson and Jean Deysel were the standout loosies, but how Davon Raubenheimer was considered ahead of Duane Vermeulen, Francois Louw and Willem Alberts is beyond me.
Heini Adams, another who can’t start for his province, struggled behind a pack being shunted around. His tactical kicking was woeful, and Sarel Pretorius would’ve been a better option.
Ruan Pienaar did nothing to show he is anything close to an international flyhalf. Worst of all was his temperament, panicked decisions characterising his play. But what can you expect when the last time he played in the 10 jersey was on 25 July? De Villiers and Dick Muir’s obsession with versatility over specialists seems to be slowly but surely ruining what was a promising career.
Wynand Olivier, Juan de Jongh, Jongi Nokwe and Earl Rose all soldiered on with little quality ball, but Odwa Ndungane delivered a disinterested performance. Ndungane’s final minute knock-on capped off why Lionel Mapoe should have been in his place on tour.
The technical short-comings, especially at the breakdown, were disappointing, but what was even more worrying was the lack of commitment and desperation shown by some in a Bok jersey.
Victories over Ireland and France were the main aims of this tour, but just as important was judging the depth of South African rugby. De Villiers should now realise that the out-of-form third-tier players who weren’t good enough before, still aren’t good enough. What a waste of an opportunity to ignore those who deserved a chance to tour.
Leicester now have the Bok scalp as theirs. However, records won’t state it was a woeful Bok side, many of whom shouldn’t have been there. For that, De Villiers and his selectors must take the blame.
By Grant Ball
November 7th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
#328 grant10: come on boet…how may scrum were there in the game? I’m talking about loose forward play, you know – cleaning rucks, linking plays, protecting the ball carrier, defending channels – not all of that is related to a back pedalling scrum, yes the scru, affects the momentum of the team, but basics are still basics.
Anyway enjoy the aussie & pom rugga
November 7th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Bekker is a great lock, he is awesome
November 7th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
#352 Boksarenumber1: maybe he should play sevens….
November 7th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
#350 ali: johnson is a major revelation we’ll definately need him if kanko decides to have a day off and hang around in the backline
i’ll reserve judgment on the pearl until the second game he plays but for now he’s looking good ,suprisingsly
November 7th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
You still selling state of the art mountain bike machines up in the Alps and trout fishing in the quiet lakes and rivers of Austria and Switzerland Duiwel?
De Villiers surrounded himself with the wrong people. His philosophy may have born some fruit if he’d have picked the right people to be his support. Muir will stab Pdv in the back first chance he gets because Muir himself is on a glory road of self preservation much like his mentor before him. Gary Glitter don’t have the hard nosed bottom line grit to make the correct calls up front either. They going to take John Smit’s famous legacy and whip him all the way to Calgary with it.
Somebody going to have to make some big brave calls very soon if they want to rate their glorified credibility.
Smit must give way to WP Nel or Buys
Pick the next best hooker after Bismark, Liebenberg, Strauss and then Maku
W. Du Preez and W. Blaauw to prop at LH way ahead of Beast or Steenkamp
Then we stand a chance.
Continue on this road to destabilization with these fancy motions that you don’t need top rate front row props and that mobility and leadership counts more than fundamental front row power at our own peril. Chickens are on their way home to roost and they coming home fast now. Rather sooner than later.
November 7th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
#354 mbaxman93: i was very surprised with johnson’s speed and subsequent pressure on the tiger halfbacks. i assumed that his mooted change to hooker may have been due to lack of pace as well as height, but it seems only to have been the latter.
he may not be a lineout option, but his low centre of gravity could come useful at the back of the scrum, especially if its going backwards.
ditto on rose. his positional play was at times suspect, but since both him and pienaar are confidence players, and rose seems to be higher on confidence, rose has to be backup fullback option.
November 7th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
What was the score?
November 7th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
#355 skopskiet: gary gold is a defensive and breakdown specialist, and very good in this respect. we still need a scrumm specialist though.
Muir’s intended backline vision just doesn’t stick with the adopted/intended structuralist gameplan.
quite interesting that Div picked two english-speaking assistants though.
November 7th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
#351 Transformation: Exactly transie there were many factors
and that all lead to dissaster
nnone is saying the front row was good , but they are not as one man team and the loose forwards i agree with you did not do their job well either
November 7th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
and now im chomping a nice pepermint magnum yummyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
November 7th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
359 SL
front row set the stage for the disaster that was where the game was lost. The others followed suit but in first 15 min the bok team were looking ok till the front row wheels started coming off. Dickenson helped little by blowing the break down totally in Tiger’s favor and giving them the momentum in the loose.
Everybody jumping on Pdv’s back for picking Rose Nokwe Raubenheimer Adams De Jongh Viljoen and Hargreaves but the real issue is not with those selections. Look at the main culprits of the disaster. All seasoned Wc winning springbok’s Du Plessis, Steenkamp, Ralepelle, Roussouw, Pienaar and Ndungane.
Those were the players out their depth, not the new ones or the quotas just drafted.
November 7th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
and the 1st team going to come up against exactly the same pitfalls if the front row problem is not addressed and quickly. Better wake up now before it gets any later than it already is.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
#351 Transformation:
Come on guys, here it is all you Dewald Potgieter bashers. I have just sat through ther game again and here are his stats:
tackles made 14
own ball won ex rucks and mauls 14
cleans at breakdown 7
own lineouts won 2
carries 6
turn overs won 5
Own ball sealed off 11
Opposition lineouts contested 4
Supportplay during drives 10
pass 1
If this is a guy that has underperformed then I need to overdose on viagra
November 7th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
#354 mbaxman93: so much for all the haters labeling him as a quota during the week
November 7th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
#355 skopskiet: now u’re sounding like grant10
if smit out, who’ll skipper?
November 7th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
#357 chch – welcome back Laulala: dude u r so whack!
November 7th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
#363 catleya:
That’s very interesting, and thanks for taking the time to post the stats here. Sharks Lover seems to have been watching a different game.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
#361 skopskiet: Thank you
i watched the game over and its soo disappointing how those guys didnt hold it together or show desire or energy throughout the whole game
especially russouw
this yr he’s done well for bulls but whenver he’s put on that bok jersey its been very disappointing
some of the okes here have too much “quota” blinkers on to pick this up
when POC performs badly they string out the word Quota, otherwise its simply, played badly
either way, cheetahs or province front row should’ve been playing, end of story!!!
November 7th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
#363 catleya: very impressive stats wise
i wonder how many other players had good stats?
as a team these guys were NOWHERE & were a real disgrace though
November 7th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
#362 skopskiet: Skop the old timers were abysmal but so were Rose and Raubenheimer. Neither are players that on merit would make a S14 side so they can only have been selected for other reasons. Ditto with Maku and Adams who has picked up a masty little habit of pushing the ball down before he passes. I would have liked to have seen Mampoe but for reasons unbeknown to most of us he was not selected. Ditto for Wiaan du Preez and WP Nel.
As for scrumming Gary Gold could not coach a school side let alone our forwards. After the Lions someone should have realised we would be caught short. Anyway I think our golden era has come and gone and as much as we like to hold on to old tired legs rather than finding fresh new ones we will go back to nos 5 or 6 in the world. I found it unbeliebable that Brussow was not going to be picked for the starting 15 until Spies was injured.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
I can’t fault us saffas passion, but some of the reactions here are way over the top. Yes there may be the odd qouta selection, but as others have pointed out Jannie is a White oke and out of his depth.
I feel relatively sanguine about it all though. The Italian prop is one of the best scrummagers in the modern game, many of our players stepped off the plane two days before, and it’s our end of season.
In the end, what sunk is was the scrums. And it’s time for us to start valueing that part of the game again.
Div has shown that he reacts quickly to mistakes – unlike mr stubborn Jake. Better it happens now. We’ll be better for it.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
#367 David: Yes, he watched it with Rayel Brussow and some mates on a black and white tv with a permanent test pattern which forces you to imagine what happened.
#369 Papoose: True, but for the most the guys didn’t play as a team. They let the momentum of the Tigers overcome them.
Sad, but I have the feeling that if there was another five minutes we would have pulled it off, and then most sins would have been forgiven.
November 7th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Ja-ja SS,
the SantaCruZ DRIVER V8.
Bust the Norco Atomic in half.
Split the atom in 9 months.
Next is the SantaCruz driver V8.
It was a tough call
the Nicolai Ion ST looks good.
Rides like fire.
Caugt some Three kilo bogie on a sedge
three days ago.
Good moment.
Had her for dinner for three days
table of five.
November 7th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
In Fact that Rainbow trout had,
just before i brought the priest down,
that same uncomprehending,
downrightdumbasmydick-stupid look
old Poepolpiet sports every day.
November 7th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
#363 catleya: catleya pottie 5 turn overs??
what you been smoking mate??
we only won 2 turn overs all night which happened in the first 10 min of the game
its not about potgieter bashing
go watch with unbiased eyes and watch all of his play
you will also see him lose a ball in the rucks , just like deysel lost one and rossouw 2
November 7th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
#370 Objective how can you say Rose was abysmal? He gets a lot of stick, some deserved. But he didn’t play badly and was one of the few backs who showed any imagination last night, he did get caught out of position a couple of times though
November 7th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
#370 Objective 101: how can say rose was bad when he set up the only try w scored ofthe nigt ,he was far better than any 1 could have expected and out of all the backs looked possbley the best -potgieter imo was very ordinary ,trid hard but had very litle efect -deysel and johnson where the only forwards worth a mention-potgieter overated,just to small #363 catleya: turnverswon ?5 no ways man never !thats rubish we had no possesion -5 turn overs lol ,maybe ure being biast -when they had a knock on and he picked it up ,that doesnt count ey
November 7th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
#375 sharks_lover: Yes, 5 times he secured ball at a ruck/maul/scrum/lineout/spilt ball situation which had been in the other team’s possession untill then, so I guess you missed some.
And yes Pottie lost one ball he took into a ruck, but so did Danie (2) and Deysel(2, not one.) And Pottie missed one tackle where there was obstruction from a scrum by the Tigers flanker, resulting in the scrummy making good ground, but that was due to obstruction. and then there was one instance where the Tigers win ger stepped inside some four meters before the tackle , so he was cut off from his outside support and forced inside by Pottie where the support on the inside tackled him. So technically it was not a missed tackle.
My friend, you will never sell Deysel to me as a 7 flanker for the Boks. Go look at Rugby 365. I am not the only one who sees what it see. Let’s rather agree to disagree and leave it be on this note. Maybe you should explain why the Sharks have put feelers out to him long before the Alberts option came up.
November 7th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
what does / did **** Muir do? Can someone show me the value he brings as a bok backline coach?
Unless he does defence as well, he provide sweet F all on attack. Last 5 minutes, the players did not even have the guts or confidence to send the ball wide. That is as shameful as the scruming effort. It might even be worse because at least you can hold your hand up & say well done Castro Giavani.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
What? Not Luke Watson?
November 7th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
PDV is succumbing to pressure from higher authorities, to put more players of colour in the Bok team. The thing is though, he not being as vocal against it as Jake White was!
On the other hand, the Bok midweek team were terrible last night. The talent was there, but the players never showed up. So I think PDV should not be solely to blame for last night. Steenkamp, Jannie, Rossouw, PIENAAR… all seasoned Bok players had poor games.
I think Chilliboy should spend a year out of the Bok fold, and Maku to move to the Lions, then possibly it could be seen whether they really are potentially international class. Raubenheimer was a victim of a lack of transformation in the junior levels. An excellent prospect as a junior, he has taken a worse dive than Chilliboy at senior level. Because there is such little transformation in the period between junior level rugby and senior level rugby, we are seeing PDV having to enforce it within the Springboks! Things much change in this respect in SA rugby!
November 7th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
i have one last post regarding this game. if we look back on some of the great tours of the UK and Ireland in the past, such as the grand slam winning Aussies in 1984 and the All Blacks in 1978, you will notice that they too lost to club sides. does this make them “a disgrace?” in fact, the Aussie side of 1984 is recongnised as one of the best ever. yet they lost 4 (count em) games to club sides… so lets stop being pathetic and using this as a platform to attack PDV who thus far this year has not let us down in the international area. post over.
November 7th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
#364 Papoose: Really? Can’t remember anyone labeling Johnson a ‘quota’ player!
As I (and most other) predicted, the front row was pathetic. Cheetahs destroyed both Sharks and Bulls front row… and Jannie is 2nd choice over there! Both of them should never have left the prop factory (FS)… their skills have dropped to something laughable!
Wian’s on his way to Europe already… make the call, and get WP Nel there as well, and a true captain in Adrian Strauss.
November 8th, 2009 at 7:25 am
far too many quotass
Yes. Scrum absolute DISGRACE.
November 8th, 2009 at 7:55 am
This Grant Balls guy is talking testacles. After one experimental tour match he says -”PdV & **** are slowly but surely ruining what was once a promising career” The guy just delivered the B&I lions series, Trinations (including an All Black whitewash) and number 1 ranking in the world… Hello. Grant Balls has the memory of a Goldfish and PdV is our Fort Knox. Anyone for more humble pie…?
November 8th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Dont forget Jake lost Tour matches left right & centre before lifting a World Cup. I too had my doubts about Peter but the man deliverd. So no complaints from me…
November 8th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Bemoan the lack of practise and game time together, but the Dirttrackers that played friday night were a disgrace to the Springbok Jersey! If the Barbarians, who are a bunch of internationals who dont all speak the same language, can gel in a week why cant our “future” Springboks? Its a lack of talent and the incorrect selections… Shame on PDiv, **** and teh rest of the “Merit” Selection team….
November 9th, 2009 at 12:40 am
385. Rayno
You are right,he did achieve that,but it would have been a crying shame if he hadn’t.He after all inherited the World Champions.
The fact is that he has not put a decent team on the park based solely on his and his co-selectors selection.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:15 am
Was it not **** Muir who coached this midweek team??
Why is Div responsible??
Where were all the experienced players??
Wynand, Gurthro, Pienaar, Rossouw??
Why blame the players of colour if 90% of the team didn’t perform???
November 9th, 2009 at 7:16 am
#384 greatest13gerber:
I agree!!
Wynand Olivier should never represent the Boks again!!!
November 9th, 2009 at 8:10 am
well smit needs to be on the field and he was a brilliant hooker until they moved him, if he cant play all 80 mins let him come on in the 2nd half, the problem is that we dont have another player with experience who is a quality captain, matfield is leaving same time as smit and even he isn’t that gr8 we need to find a leader who is a quality player and leader we need to start looking at our loosies in sa as they make the best captains as they’re always at the font of the battle
November 9th, 2009 at 8:56 am
So John Smit says that 90% of criticism (especially the media)against PDV is coz of racists who cant except that a black coach knows more than a white one…
Any comments? Keo?
And that Luke Watson was a cancer within the Springboks…
hmmmmm…
November 9th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Ashley Johnson played well in other areas, but his performance (along with the flankers) during scrums was pitiful… that the locks and props didn’t give them a wake-up ‘klap’ and told them to scrum was a miracle! It was 5 vs 8 the whole time!!!
November 13th, 2009 at 9:15 am
#388 Brentie1: No buts Brentie, and no crying shame if he hadn’t because he did.
On SuperRugby it was confirmed (not that we never knew) that Jake inherited his Springboks from Peter who was u21 coach at the time.
All Peter is doing is getting his old squad back.
In today’s Cape Times 13.11.09 John Smit: “Sadly, if you strip a lot of the criticism bare about Peter, you’ll find its racist. Unfortunately the old-school mentality that a black coach cant possibly be better than a white coach still lingers.”
The Springbok captain is basically labelling you all racists (not that we never knew) I guess we can expect calls for John Smit to be stripped from the captaincy and dropped from the team. So sad.
Peter’s got nothing to prove. He’s the best Bok coach our generation has seen.
Accept it and enjoy the success Peter has bestowed upon us…!