PdV to blame for Leicester disgrace
7 Nov 2009
Peter de Villiers must take responsibility for his poor selections and the embarrassment that followed in Leicester on Friday.
It’s all good and well lauding De Villiers when his first-choice side steamroll opponents, but now when an opportunity presents itself to mould an inexperienced group, he and his fellow coaching staff looked out of their depth.
The Springbok ‘second-choice’ XV were annihilated by a club side without at least 16 of their regulars, also not helping their synergy. The Bok coaching staff will point to the lack of preparation time, but in that situation the common sense option is to pick combinations at provincial level. De Villiers ignored this, and the result was a disorganised showing in all facets that led to the South Africans being out-muscled.
While De Villiers stated this tour was about gauging his next best, his refusal to pick form players from the Currie Cup has now left him with more questions than answers.
This team were led out to be exposed by stupid selections and from numbers 1 to 22 there are few success stories from Welford Road.
De Villiers stated in the latest issue of SA Rugby magazine how his technical knowledge of the scrum is the best in the Bok camp. But if that was the case, he would’ve known before this match that Gurthro Steenkamp would’ve repeatedly unbound and taken his head out of the scrum, resulting in penalty after penalty. Instead of choosing Wian du Preez – who is now heading to Munster – and the rest of the Cheetahs front-row as a unit, they were all watching this debacle on TV.
That Chiliboy Ralepelle – the Bulls’ second-choice hooker – had the opportunity to lead his country after not being fit to take part in a Currie Cup final six days earlier is ludicrous. It wasn’t surprising he limped off after 20 minutes, and he should be on the next plane home. Jannie du Plessis’ days in the Bok set-up should also be numbered as he failed to produce any leadership or grunt required. How Heinke van der Merwe was suppose to perform after not playing in six months is a mystery, and one shudders at the thought of him having to play tighthead on this tour.
Danie Rossouw was a frustrated figure with the lack of leadership, and while he tried all night, it wasn’t enough. Andries Bekker also toiled throughout, but in a disorganised side, it was very difficult. That the Sharks’ fourth-choice lock Alistair Hargreaves came on to try and resurrect matters said it all. Even against 20-year-old rookies, Hargreaves was out of his depth and he would have benefited more from an Isaac Ross-course in bulking up over the summer.
Ashley Johnson and Jean Deysel were the standout loosies, but how Davon Raubenheimer was considered ahead of Duane Vermeulen, Francois Louw and Willem Alberts is beyond me.
Heini Adams, another who can’t start for his province, struggled behind a pack being shunted around. His tactical kicking was woeful, and Sarel Pretorius would’ve been a better option.
Ruan Pienaar did nothing to show he is anything close to an international flyhalf. Worst of all was his temperament, panicked decisions characterising his play. But what can you expect when the last time he played in the 10 jersey was on 25 July? De Villiers and Dick Muir’s obsession with versatility over specialists seems to be slowly but surely ruining what was a promising career.
Wynand Olivier, Juan de Jongh, Jongi Nokwe and Earl Rose all soldiered on with little quality ball, but Odwa Ndungane delivered a disinterested performance. Ndungane’s final minute knock-on capped off why Lionel Mapoe should have been in his place on tour.
The technical short-comings, especially at the breakdown, were disappointing, but what was even more worrying was the lack of commitment and desperation shown by some in a Bok jersey.
Victories over Ireland and France were the main aims of this tour, but just as important was judging the depth of South African rugby. De Villiers should now realise that the out-of-form third-tier players who weren’t good enough before, still aren’t good enough. What a waste of an opportunity to ignore those who deserved a chance to tour.
Leicester now have the Bok scalp as theirs. However, records won’t state it was a woeful Bok side, many of whom shouldn’t have been there. For that, De Villiers and his selectors must take the blame.
By Grant Ball
394 Comments
7 Nov 2009, 05:45 am
Can’t help but feel sympathy for Div. Under pressure from his employer and politicians he had to pick a cesspit of quota players. I don’t think you can blame him.
7 Nov 2009, 06:05 am
i agree with kwas but this sadly will be the future of sa rugby.it seems the black players who should be there dont get picked and the ones like chilli would shouldnt even be near a bok squad are.
7 Nov 2009, 06:08 am
to be honest tis good that chilli is hurt cause he might have to sit out now and make way hopefully for derrick kuun
7 Nov 2009, 06:10 am
There’s a difference between responsibility and blame, a big difference
7 Nov 2009, 06:15 am
Yep this goes to the top. He has quotas to fill and been a quota himself with a quota boss, Origina the Vag@#$%.
I really think some of the boys should have been rested and some new blood brought in, but that is idealism as we can see. Sometimes the old boy club will be as harmful as quotas.
Deysel above Raubi(good player but need some bulk).
Pretorius instead of Heini.
Kuun, liebemberg (infact anybody) above Maku and chili.
Wian du Preez instead of Gufro.
Mapoe instead of Oddwon.
Mibiyso intead of Pottie.
I think I can keep going…
7 Nov 2009, 06:17 am
The biggest concern for me, which indicates immaturity and an ego at play, is that the South African Rugby Union is supposed to be just that: a union. Yet the Union’s national coaching staff and selectors ignored the views of their own: the leading provincial coaches and selectors.
I only hope that these immaturities and ego-eccentricities will play themselves out during the period when the First XV are world beaters.
7 Nov 2009, 06:21 am
Its a disgrace.
Besides I heard some on this site saying boks will win by 60 points.
This was a third or 4th string bunch. Plus they had never played with each other
They left at least 6-8 better players at home.
Well PDV you got your resut with your experiment players
7 Nov 2009, 06:27 am
And it’s unfair to the players. As with the third test against the Lions, from which the coaching staff state they learnt the most out of all the games, they are given one game to prove themselves and that’s it.
7 Nov 2009, 06:27 am
Our front row is still a major problem.
Lets get cj and bj in the bok squad again
and get Os to coach the front row
7 Nov 2009, 06:29 am
#8 sglazer:
yes agreed. They need to spend some time together, well and select the 8 they left behind
7 Nov 2009, 06:30 am
#9 CoachPete: Yes, exactly
7 Nov 2009, 06:32 am
#11 sglazer:
Are we the only few who see this ?
7 Nov 2009, 06:35 am
I don’t know. We’ll see when the tidal wave wakes up on the other side of the world [s]
7 Nov 2009, 06:36 am
I’m watching Forensic Files. You?
7 Nov 2009, 06:39 am
Im watching Armagedon
7 Nov 2009, 06:40 am
We’re an optimistic bunch, looking to the light side of humanity and the future [s]
7 Nov 2009, 06:43 am
Billy Bob Thornton at Hooker, Bruce Willis at Flyhalf, Ben Afflek in the Centers?
7 Nov 2009, 06:44 am
Liv Tyler and Owen Wilson on the Wings
7 Nov 2009, 06:45 am
#18 sglazer:
Whoopie goldberg at scurm half
Quotas remember
7 Nov 2009, 06:46 am
#19 CoachPete: Ha ha ha!
7 Nov 2009, 06:47 am
Huge missed opportunity of building on the EB’s decent draw with the BIL’s using their pack (lesser degree backs) as the blue-print… and rewarding S14 performance with arguably a few CC form players…
Here’s hoping Strauss, Liebenberg, Vermeulen, and a few others are already on the plane… along with Smit and co!
Methinks the damage is already done to the passengers… and those carrying them… and we’ll see plenty of ‘real’ Boks in the fold come Saracens to prevent a flogging!
7 Nov 2009, 06:49 am
ja i agree pick overseas players
like cj and bj rugby is a job and the players
should be able to go where they can earn good money without
being punished
i agree with kevinrack comment number 5
i see the bok coach as a quota and shouldnt be there
only when i said it i got slammed
7 Nov 2009, 06:49 am
#19 CoachPete: Here it comes, the tidal wave, starting really on the other side of the world [s]
7 Nov 2009, 07:00 am
#23 sglazer:
I’m in the USA I can see it from here.
7 Nov 2009, 07:03 am
This was really a bad performance from the boys. However its shocking to see that Keo actually saying lack of preparation has totally nothing to do with this defeat. Even if the players that Keo has been moaning about was chosen for this team, the synergy and lack of preparation could have led to them failing to. Obvious some areas could have been improven.
One refreshing thing is that Rose seem to be flying under the radar today…..What’s going on Keo?? I don’t think for a second u changed your mind on how “useless” he is or have u had a change of heart???
7 Nov 2009, 07:06 am
That whole pack could be totally different.
I agree with KevinRack #5
maybe the cheetahs front row, and Liebenberg
locks Van Zyl and sykes
Looses forwards many
7 Nov 2009, 07:08 am
#25 Bentoshi:
Well if you have better players even if they have not played together they will be better
Rose yeah
Hey when the rest fo the team plays so kuk then he stands out as been ok
7 Nov 2009, 07:09 am
Of course this hiding is extremely embarrassing and PDV is the man to blame. But it only serves to prove how disastrous the road to “transformation” rather than strict merit selection is bound to be.
7 Nov 2009, 07:09 am
rest of
7 Nov 2009, 07:10 am
#22 klippies101:
I thought there was a time when you said that the coach was swaying you his way. Funny what one lost can do. Imagine if this was the test side losing against France. Holy Macaroni!!!
7 Nov 2009, 07:12 am
PDV, select on merit, and this f*** will not happen, you are a puppet man
7 Nov 2009, 07:14 am
A well-written article. I hope the content gets pointed out to Snorre & co.
7 Nov 2009, 07:16 am
#31 Hagar:
Does anyone know How much influence PDV had in the selection.
After all the starting boks were named did he have a big part in the selection or was he told who to pick?
7 Nov 2009, 07:17 am
#32 Lang Giel:
He gets Earl Rose to read if for him
7 Nov 2009, 07:18 am
“Danie Rossouw was a frustrated figure with the lack of leadership,”
Is he not suppose to provide it, as a senior player I mean.
7 Nov 2009, 07:26 am
Coach: That’s merely an assumption u made. What u saying that u can choose a random bunch of players of merit, throw then in a team and beat any team in the world without having any synergy or preparation?
7 Nov 2009, 07:26 am
Grant Bell
Don’t blame the village idiot, please don’t!
Instead look at the senior Boks and the captain, they allowed this farce to happened!
And please, this is rugby, how could you blame Jannie Dup when he has to bind with the like of Steenkamp and Chiliboy, it’s ludicrous!
7 Nov 2009, 07:28 am
#31 Hagar:
Why am I not surprise. Out in full force, are you?
Can somebody please tell me, who the hell coached this team?
7 Nov 2009, 07:28 am
#4 sglazer:
“with the authority comes the accountability”
(Kelly Johnson, Chief engineer, Lockheed Company)
7 Nov 2009, 07:30 am
#38 nama1:
why should you be surprised?
The bookie at Rosebank took a 2:3 betting for Leicester on Thursday
7 Nov 2009, 07:31 am
#36 Bentoshi:
You may be right however:
A randon bunch of good players is better than a random bunch of just average players
I have coached and seen it.
For the record I did not say you can thow together a bunch of players picked on merit, and beat any team in the world.
What I said was if you picked the 2nd string bok team based on current form/merit they would have stood a heck of a better chance against the Tigers
7 Nov 2009, 07:33 am
well its not that the boks lost u cant win every game doesnt matter who u play but the selections make no sense
the best players have been left in sa i think
7 Nov 2009, 07:36 am
#37 Hondo:
Grant Ball. First you can’t count now it seems you can’t read either. (smilie)
7 Nov 2009, 07:42 am
#40 Hondo:
I bet he made a lot of money.
7 Nov 2009, 07:45 am
#42 klippies101:
So, what is your stance on PdV as the Bok coach given his record the past two years?
7 Nov 2009, 07:46 am
Transformation has to be part of our rugby and if it means some player who performed well are left behind, hard luck. Its not like players on form hasn’t been left behind in the past before transformation kicked it… Coaches have their favorites and agendas that they wanne push. I say let PdV choose his way and if he feels transformation is vital to his contribution to SA Rugby I say we’ll done man.
7 Nov 2009, 07:51 am
#46 Bentoshi:
I disagree.
Pick the best players regardless of their color,
Pick the players who are possibly part of the transformation, in the springbok development squad, and let them make their way into the main squad on merit
7 Nov 2009, 07:56 am
Coach: Do u honestly telling me that Whites Blacks Clrds and Indian are getting the same fair treatment from school level up and till national level. Just look at the school teams. I’ve seen how average white kids from school level get chosen cause they see potential in them and all the other races has to play their hearts out to get in. Provincial level the same thing. A player of colour has to play has to play his heart out to achieve what a white player on average can do. If this is the culture that prevail in our country then I say put transformation in and force the change.
7 Nov 2009, 07:58 am
#39 Hondo: Yes, but not blame, response-ability. Blame is a complete waste of time, always has been, always will be.
7 Nov 2009, 07:59 am
It is very clear to me. This “2nd string bok team” lost because of four reasons
Poor selection.
Poor coaching
Some players did not play well.
No preperation time
Thats it.
7 Nov 2009, 08:00 am
#48 Bentoshi: With sincere respect, I think your lenses are largely distorting reality. This is from the past, not the present.
7 Nov 2009, 08:05 am
Wonder how smart both the passengers and those carrying them are feeling today… thanks to the ‘brains trust’… about as smart as Julius Malema!
7 Nov 2009, 08:05 am
#48 Bentoshi:
I dont believe you are right sorry
Change will happen naturally.
Dont force it
There are plenty of great black wings, and some backs at springbok level.
Not many forwards. But this will happen
Yes the development and transformation needs to happen at school level, maybe faster, but not at the springbok level.
Just my opinion like it or not I respect yours
7 Nov 2009, 08:06 am
Sglazer: If this was true should there be so much more players of colour in the provincial teams and even national but their isn’t. So what is preventing players of colour getting into the team. Lack of talent, NO. Lack of potential, NO!!!. Lack of opportunity?? Please tell me why they not their??
7 Nov 2009, 08:06 am
Just imagine if this was our 1st IV
*Note I have only selected overseas based players that deserve to be there. I have also not selected older players on the bench as i believe we need to look to the future now.
It’s no point having older players on the bench eg. Danie Rossouw, Jannie, Jacobs. We need to allow the younger players to gain experience and learn at the same time from the old heads like Matfield, Bakkies, Smit, Juan, Du Preez and De Villiers.
* Overseas based
+ Injured
1.Tendai “Beast” Mtawarira
2.John Smit (c)
3.CJ van der Linde*
4.Bakkies Botha
5.Victor Matfield (v/c)
6.Heinrich Brussow
7.Juan Smith + / Schalk Burger
8.Pierre Spies + / Ryan Kankowski
9.Fourie du Preez
10.Morne Steyn
11.Bryan Habana
12.Jean de Villiers*
13.Jaque Fourie
14.JP Pietersen
15.Frans Steyn*
And this was our Springbok IV Team that played Leicester.
# 1st IV Bench
1.Heinke van der Merwe
2.Bismarck du Plessis#
3.Brian Mujati*#
4.Gerhard Mostert + / Juandre Kruger*
5.Andries Bekker#
6.Luke Watson* (c)
7.Jean Deysel
8.Duanne Vermeulen#
9.Ruan Pienaar#
10.Peter Grant# (v/c)
11.Alwyn Hollenbach
12.Brad Bariitt*
13.Waylon Murray
14.Lionel Mapoe
15.Zane Kirchner#
16.Adriaan Strauss
17.WP Nel
18.Flip van der Merwe
19.Francois Louw
20.Rory Kockott
21.Wynand Olivier
22.Louis Ludik + / Earl Rose
Player on standby incase of injuries
1.Coenie Oosthuizen / Wikus Blaauw
2.Craig Burden / Chiliboy Ralepelle + / Richardt Strauss
3.Patric Cilliers / Kevin Buys
4.Francois van der Merwe* / Steven Sykes
5.Cliff Milton* / Alistair Hargreaves
6.Keegan Daniel / Deon Stegmann
7.Hilton Lobberts / Dewald Potgieter
8.Willem Alberts / Ashley Johnson
9.Francois Hougaard / Jano Vermaak + / Paul Delport
10.Burton Francis / Francois Brummer
11+14.Gerhard van den Heever / Tonderai Chavhanga+ /JW Jonker
12.Robert Ebersohn / Stefan Watermeyer
13.Juan de Jongh / Ronnie Cooke*
15.Joe Pietersen / Hennie Daniller
What do you fellow bloggers think? let me know?
7 Nov 2009, 08:06 am
Last night’s result is proof once again that PdV is riding the coat-tails of the WC-winning team he inherited. Whenever he has to put together a team himself (last night and the 3rd Lions test), he fails miserably. The man is clueless when it comes to measuring a player’s ability.
7 Nov 2009, 08:10 am
#54 Bentoshi: Because soccer is by far the most loved sport among the black population. The passion is so strong for soccer.
This is changing, but as Coach Pete is saying, it is wisest to allow it to happen naturally, organically. It is happening, but if we push it artificially, we land up with last night’s debacle.
7 Nov 2009, 08:10 am
Coach: I totally respect your opinion and ideally I want change to come naturally to but its frustrating to see change not happening. I’m not saying let’s force it but I’m merely saying let’s put matters into place to that address the issue and also create that culture where change is a norm and not seen as destroying existing cultures.
7 Nov 2009, 08:11 am
#54 Bentoshi: It is best for this change to happen from the bottom up, through the ranks, not through impetuous and short-sighted selections at national level.
7 Nov 2009, 08:12 am
#44 nama1:
surprisingly not
Unlike this blog, at the bookies people are expected to put their money where their mouth is!
to send the pack of forwards included Steenkamp, Chiliboy, Raubenheimer, Johnson against Leicester was a sheer madness.
7 Nov 2009, 08:14 am
We forget the nightmare Pierre Spies had in his first game in a losing side. Look at him now – though I didn’t see any players with the same potential last night except Wynand Olivier, in a better side he will impress more.
(I like Whoopi Goldberg at scrumhalf – she talks enough to distract that useless Ausi ref. Don’t agree with Ben Afleck at centre, Matt Damon will be better. Joelle Kayembe (wearing the outfit in the Sprite add) on the wing to distract the opposition and Paris and Britney (without underwear) at prop so the rest of the forwards will stay in the scrum and drive forward)
7 Nov 2009, 08:14 am
#55 JKBridge: I like the look of your first team. However, I think Beast is an underpowered scrummager and would have Wian Du Preez in his place. It would also be difficult to leave Bismarck out of the starting line-up. Possibly slot Smit in at TH again and see how the combo fares.
7 Nov 2009, 08:15 am
#58 Bentoshi:
Yeah ok but not SA rugby’s job to change South Africa.
Also you mentioned talent and potential
Where is a black lock that can take bakkies or Victors place.
and loose forwards better than brussow Smith spies etc
and a scrum half to replace Fdp
There are none
7 Nov 2009, 08:16 am
#61 stanretha: Funny! But Damon would make a good waterboy, not a center.
7 Nov 2009, 08:17 am
#53 CoachPete:
don’t kid yourself
Chiliboy and Tim Dlulani are few example why it will never happened, they can’t sustain the contact game for long.
7 Nov 2009, 08:17 am
The Tackler
u’r earlier posts
Give it a break man – your continuous badmouthing is unhealthy. Say something that contributes rather than that vile vindictive sloth. Be careful! it may well take you over completely one day and then what will you do…….
It get tiring to have to read your mad comments in here – stop wasting other folks time with what is essentially ****. Nobody minds rational criticism & debate, are you intellectually capable?
7 Nov 2009, 08:18 am
There are none now currently, but maybe in the future.
7 Nov 2009, 08:19 am
#65 Hondo:
ag they just need to eat more biltong and boerewors
7 Nov 2009, 08:20 am
#58 Bentoshi: But the heavy-handed way in which “change” is being pursued is destroying a culture – the culture of excellence.
If enforced change is such a good thing, why doesn’t SARU just admit that players have been picked for political reasons, instead of lying to the world about the team being picked strictly on merit? It would save us all a lot of embarrassment.
7 Nov 2009, 08:22 am
#62 Sidewinder:
It’s a sure bet both France and Ire will target the Beast at the scrum and in the rucks because he turns the ball over more often than not.
7 Nov 2009, 08:25 am
Coach: You talking about Bakkies, Victor and Heinrich like they were made over night. If you trying to imply white SA will always be better then Blacks in rugby then I feel sorry for you. That’s the same thinking started Apartheid.
7 Nov 2009, 08:26 am
#68 CoachPete:
That’s about right
the Boers are the best rugby players on this planet, so it’s a good corrolation between eating bultong and good rugby players
7 Nov 2009, 08:28 am
#70 Hondo: Yes, there are obvious weaknesses in the Bok team which are being glossed over. It’s only a matter of time before they come back to bite us.
7 Nov 2009, 08:29 am
Quotas last night
1 Pienaar
2 Du Plessis
3 Rossouw
4 Chilli Peppers
5 Guthro
6 Potgieter
Stars
1 Earl Rose
2 Ashley Johnson
The only time the protea bokkies looked good were when Earl was at standing in the ten channel in the first halve when they scored the try.
7 Nov 2009, 08:32 am
#71 Bentoshi:
So I state the obvious and all of a sudden its the same thinking that started aparheid.
So your opinion is 100% correct.
How come 99% of the bloggers agree with me.
I never implied white are better for SA rugby, and in fact feel I feel your statement is a direct insult to my beliefs.
I would be very happy to cheer a 100% black springbok team selected on merit, beating the ABs
7 Nov 2009, 08:33 am
#67 CoachPete:
I used to watch high school rugby on the East Rand, I tell you, the ferocity those Afrikaans kids played the game was a reality check time and again, you dropped an undersized black kid there, he would be maimed.
Chiliboy was certainly ‘protected’ though out his high school career, the word was passed around,,,
7 Nov 2009, 08:33 am
and Davon??? moer this guy is k@k! …. Ruan battled behind a loosing pack, even Morne would’ve battled. Earl Rose was okay, 1 good game out of 100. So for the next 99 games Earl will be K@K …arme Lions!
7 Nov 2009, 08:34 am
#71 Bentoshi: He’s not saying that. He’s not saying that White players will always be better than Black players.
This is what I mean. I think you’re distorting reality.
7 Nov 2009, 08:35 am
#62 SIDEWINDER
I agree Wian du Preez is playing very well at the moment. I left him out my squad as he’s an older player. I think Smit has done ok at scrum time at tighthead but feel he puts a lot of preasure on the Beast as he’s not the strongest tight hea around. Bismarck was a hard choice. I just felt the team needed Smit as captain and also in need of a quality hooker on the bench.
7 Nov 2009, 08:35 am
#63 CoachPete:
“Where is a black lock that can take bakkies or Victors place.”
Where are the white players who can do that?
Why do we always have to go down this route.
#65 Hondo:
You’ve said a lot of stupid things in the past. But mentioning Tim Dlulane in this regard must rank way high up there.
“they can’t sustain the contact game for long.” Am I right if I suspect that you are referring here to black players?
7 Nov 2009, 08:38 am
#74 rugby lover: How can you classify white players as “quota” players? The beneficiaries of the quota system are by definition “black”.
7 Nov 2009, 08:41 am
#80 nama1:
Yes true about anyone replacing bakkies and Victor
What I am hoping is there are some young black schoolboys (locks) embracing the game of rugby with passion and eventually becoming springbok locks
7 Nov 2009, 08:42 am
Sglazer: please inform me what the reality is?
7 Nov 2009, 08:43 am
#63 CoachPete: The only black lock coming through the system is the young Bulls lock Fudge Mabeta and he’s an athletic lock in the Matfield mould. No aggresive locks in the Bakkies mould though.
7 Nov 2009, 08:45 am
#84 JKBridge:
Hilton Yellow card lobberts
7 Nov 2009, 08:46 am
#25 Bentoshi: Don’t get ahead of yourself Tokoloshi!!! Earl did have a good game, but then Earl does have moments of brilliance, unfortunately, he has shown over and over again, that a stuff up of note is not far away!! And in addition, it didn’t take much to be a standout player in this debacle!!
Very few of the players that played are near being international quality. Your rantings about players of colour not geing picked is soooooo yesterday. More players of colour that don’t desrerve to be picked, than what deserving white players are!!
Merit for representative teams is the only way to be a force in international sport!! Our national teams should not be a vehicle fo social redressing!!
What is the government doing to promote rugby amongst players of colour??? They beat the drum yes, but do they actively do anything Nooooo!! much more important things to do,like renaming cities, and buying exotic cars!!!
7 Nov 2009, 08:49 am
#81 Sidewinder:
It just seems to me that everybody is blaming the performance or lack thereof on the players of colour selected for this particular, match but if you actually watched the match objectively then you would know that it was the regular springboks that failed the team last night. Culprits being
Pienaar,Rossouw,Chilli,Guthro and Jannie.
Raubenheimer did not fair to badly and tackled his hart out.
Ashley star followed by Earl in the backs.Nokwe good game too.
Lot of people singing Bekkers praises but I was not convinced and never rated him anyway.
7 Nov 2009, 08:49 am
bottom line is that being No.1 in the world and having beaten the British Lions…..every side we play against, dirtrackers or test side, we will be everyones World Cup Final.
We need to learn quickly from this, and generally you learn more from a loss than a win so the first-timers should improve a lot before their next game.
7 Nov 2009, 08:53 am
#87 rugby lover:
just a little perspective.
Johnstone missed the tackle on the try scorer way to easily for my liking.
Roussow was the only tight 5 forward prepared to show some attitude.
7 Nov 2009, 08:53 am
Great article Grant!
PdV and his cronies must learn not to be such wankers when it comes to selection in future
7 Nov 2009, 08:53 am
#88 Brigadier Van Zyl:
The sad thing is that most of us blogger on this site believe with the correct selection the “second string side” could be a dam good team, but its not.
7 Nov 2009, 08:57 am
#91 CoachPete:
It’s still not a bad side but I believe that there is a stronger option availible?
7 Nov 2009, 08:57 am
The way the pack got pushed back,looked like a rolling maul a few times,is the most embarrassing bok moments i think i have ever witnessed!
7 Nov 2009, 08:58 am
#72 Hondo:
“so it’s a good corrolation between eating bultong and good rugby players”
We have already established that you can’t count, can’t read and now we find out that you can’t spell. It’s BILTONG, not bultong. Go ask for your school fees back.
I just hope you’re not one of those guys writing to newspapers fighting for Afrikaans. If you are, stop it. You are just doing more damage to my mother’s language.
7 Nov 2009, 08:58 am
#89 Brigadier Van Zyl:
My perspective
Pienaar with no pressure at all Kicked the kick down the throat of the attacking team and Ashley got Beaten against the grain.
7 Nov 2009, 09:00 am
#87 rugby lover: There were a number of dubious selections across the colour divide, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that some non-white players are there because of their complexion. And don’t forget that they were playing a Leicester 2nd team. Most average Currie Cup players could have slotted in and given a reasonable performance.
Last night’s peformance only proved what we all already know – the players picked were not the best players available. In some cases, the motive was political; in others, not. Either way, it’s criminal not to pick your best team, and then to tell the world that players were only picked on merit.
7 Nov 2009, 09:00 am
#94 nama1:
Its Bultong if made from Bulls
7 Nov 2009, 09:05 am
Guys
Let’s start off by saying that last night’s biggest disgrace wasn’t the defeat to Leicester- it was the blogger’s behaviour, a drunken, rascist slugfest that belonged in a shebeen in a township rather than on a website on the internet for all to see how sick and polarized SA society still is. People like Valkyrie, Wakanathan, Langenhoven, Skopskiet and the like have shown themselves to be bitterly twisted individuals living in the past using every opportunity to spew their filth. It is guys like them that perpetuate racism. Be that as it may. Let’s get to rugby.
The Boks were beaten as follows:
1. Experienced, well drilled front row fronting a bunch of eager youngsters. This was the area they targeted and it worked for them as they put in 8 man scrum after 8 man scrum driving the bokscrum back.
2. Leicesters technique come ruck time and at the breakdown driving over the ball and sealing it off and being allowed to do this right on and over the borderline by the ref made any attempt at contesting for the ball impossible.
3. This was not helped by the fact that the SA loosies did not gel as a unit, with Potgieter having to do all the hard tight graft and tackling while Raubenheimer was largely abscent and Johnson playing a very loose game trying to run up the ball too frequently in stead of playing to the structure, although he did pull off a few telling tackles, mainly out wide, while the problem- and his presence to help, was in and around the rucks. Once the Tigers pack gained ascendancy and momentum one man fighting on the ground was never gonna stem the tide. When Deysel replaced Raubenheimer he was equally ineffectual with ball in hand, but in him Potgieter found an ally who was willing to fight the Leicester bpack.
4. The Boks were without a captain of note on the field for more than 60 minutes. Only once Potgieter took over as captain with less than 20 to go did he succeed en getting the Boks to begin to pull together and return to structure. The game ended with Leicester hanging on to their 5 point lead for dear life.
Truth be told, we were played into a hole by the Tigers scrummaging, but played ourselves out of the hole. This will prove invaluable for the team going forward.
Fact is, the Boks need to do something about our scrummaging. It wasn’t that we got annihilated, but the way and extent to which we were annihilated is what was telling. And let’s be honest, the test frontrow wouldn’t have faired any better, and neither would the Freestaters or Wikus Blaauw sitting back home. End of story.
Lessons learnt:
1. Our scrummaging needs a major overhaul
2. Three practices for a disjointed team ahead of such a game is never enough. The guys started finding one another in the last 5 minutes.
3. Dewald Potgieter has a huge future ahead of him. You could clearly see the change when he took over as captain as well.
4. Chilliboy will surely now be judged for what he is. It is clear that he was not over his injury and was again pushed too soon. This is madness
7 Nov 2009, 09:06 am
#96 Sidewinder:
Point taken
What it has proofed to me though is that the seond string regulars like Jannie ,Chilli,Guthro and Pienaar is not as good as we would like to believe.This has been proven in the past(BI 3test)and it is not a problem with the colour of their skins.They are overrated and it is time to discard them and experiment like Pieter is doing now in order to find the next best players behind our starting fifteen.
7 Nov 2009, 09:06 am
#79 JKBridge: Wian is only 27…Hardly too old???
Top playersin SA
1. Wian, Heinke, Beast, Blauuw
2. Bismark, John Smit, Adriaan Strauss, Tiaan Lebenberg
3. WP Nel, Kevin Buys, Brok Harris, Jannie du P
4. Bakkies Botha,Steven Sykes, Anton van Zyl
5. Victor Matfield, Bekker, David de Villiers
6. Brussow, Francois Louw, Stegmann
7. Juan Smit, Schalk Burger, Deysel, Vermeulen
8. Spies, Alberts, Kanko, Johnson
9. Fourie du P, Sarel Pretorius, Jano Vermaak, Hougaard
10. Morne Steyn, JL Potgieter
11. Habana, Nokwe, Mvovo, vd Heever
12. Olivier, Doppies la Grange, Bosman, Grant
13. Jacque Fourie, de Jongh, Awyn Hollenbach
14. JPP, Mapoe, JJ Engelbrecht, Basson, Aplon
15. Kirchner, Viljoen, Pieterson, Daniler
Selections based on form in the CC,S14, and Inenationals
So Bentoshi, please showme the players betterthan thesein your opinion?
7 Nov 2009, 09:08 am
74. rugby lover:
I agree that Du Plessis and Guthro. They were shocking!!!
Chiliboy wasn’t ready for the currie cup final 5 days prior but all of a sudden he’s fit to captain his country. It doesn’t make sense….
Danie is not the player he used to be!!!
I caan’t understand what all this fuss is about Potgieter? please could someone tell me? We know he’s not an openside flank and it was unfair to expect him to be competitive on the ground. But is he really better then Jean Deysel or Francois Louw at Blindside flank or Duanne Vermeulen, Willem Alberts and Ashley Johnson at 8th man. I don’t think so. People already talking of him captaining he Boks one day.
I agree Ashley Johnson is playing awesome rugby at the moment and Earl Rose did have a good game but we all know thats what he’s known for. Unpredictable…
I disagree with calling Ruan Pienaar a quote player. The poor chap has been screwed around so much of late.
He wants to play scrumhalf!!!
He’s not a flyhalf!!!
He’s a scrumhalf!!! plain and simlple
And actually one of the best in the world!!!
Stars
1 Earl Rose
2 Ashley Johnson
The only time the protea bokkies looked good were when Earl was at standing in the ten channel in the first halve when they scored the try.
7 Nov 2009, 09:10 am
#100 Cheetah 4 Eva:
Yep You have pretty much got them all
7 Nov 2009, 09:14 am
#101 JKBridge:
I don’t know why Potgieter is so highly rated and I do think that Vermeulen is in a much better mold for the South African style of play in this position.
7 Nov 2009, 09:14 am
#74 rugby lover: You clearly watched a different game. Potgieter was immense on the defence. We hardly ever had attacking ball to play with, so nobody excelled there but do yourself a favour if you have a PVR and watch the match again. You might be a rugby Lover, but you don’t have a clue about the game that is your opinion.
7 Nov 2009, 09:19 am
Guys….1 thing has been clear ….although Boks have reigned supreme in 2009 ….our scrums have been an ongoing area of major concern. Smit at 3 has been , from a set scrum perspective, poor. Add a very average Beast …who except for 1 test has also scrummed poorlky…and the inevitable writing is on the wall….matter of time before we get nailed….
Boks seem to see scrumming as a neccessary evil….not that important….rather have the ‘looser’ tight forwards who can make tackles, etc….
That mindset, the same mindset that saw Boks play without a fetcher, is the danger to our rugby.
Guthro and Jannie dup were obliterated….humiliated….then the cancer spreads….our loosie cannot play l;ike that…sulking Ruan at 10 also even under more pressure….confidence goes quickly!!
Our arrogance is our problem…..we need a front row that first and foremost can do there primary functions well…..
France is waiting….they gonna target the Bok scrum….i fear the worst.
PDV…get back to basics….finsd a front row….get CJ and BJ back home….this farce of a front row is going to be our downfall….We cannot win WC 2011 if we cant scrum.
J Smit off bench…or retire….
Harsh perhaps…but realistic.
7 Nov 2009, 09:20 am
The bottom line is PdV has stepped out of Jake’s shadow (not selected the core of the team that Jake developed) twice now and seen his backside both times. Yesterday was a mega disgrace! It was almost like a death in the family.
7 Nov 2009, 09:22 am
#104 catleya:
No you have it wrong that is you’re opinion and the beauty of it all is that in our new democratic South Africa that we are all entitled to this.So in essence I respect you’re opinion but do not agree with it.
7 Nov 2009, 09:23 am
100. Cheetah 4 Eva :
Yes, you are right i ddn’t relise Wian’s only 27.
Good Team based on form but you can’t write off players that havn’t been given game time after returning from injury or for other reasons.
Waylon Murray and Gerhard Mostert come to mind.
Hilton Lobberts wasn’t a bad player either but seems to have fell out of favour with Rassie etc…
What about Flip van der Merwe? he was one of the form players in the currie cup but had to make way for the returning boks in Matfield, Bakkies and Rossouw at the Bulls.
Paul Delport was such a promising young player. I wish one of the Super 14 unions give him a chance.
7 Nov 2009, 09:24 am
I think the right choice would’ve been:
15.) Zane Kirchner
14.) Lionel Mapoe
13.) Juan De Jongh
12.) Wynand Olivier
11.) Jongi Nokwe
10.) Peter Grant
9.) Francois Hougaard
8.) Ashley Johnson
7.) Duane Vermeulen
6.) Franvois Louw
5.) Andries Bekker
4.) Danie Rossouw
3.) Brok Harris
2.) Tiaan Liebenberg
1.) Wicus Blaauw
16.) Chilliboy Rallepele
17.) Jannie du Pllessis
18.) Johan Muller
19.) Jead Deysel
20.) Heini Adams
21.) Earl Rose
22.) Odwa Ndungane
7 Nov 2009, 09:24 am
Watching the game last night was desperately sad from the perspective of an avid SA fan and a staunch South African. How Raubenheimer, Maku and dead horse Steenkamp can be included in a side referred to as anything other than a development side from SA is a farce – me and my mates were a laughing stock in front of our UK mates watching this last night – that team cannot be called Springboks, it is an embarresment to our country in every sense. There are so many real prospects left behind, Kockott being the most outstanding – why they invest in a 29 year old 70kg scrumhalf instead of using Pienaar there is beyond belief. Pdv get real mate!!!!
7 Nov 2009, 09:25 am
#105 grant10: How it could happen that Boks have a weak scrum? I though scrum was Boks pride for decades, wasn’t it?
7 Nov 2009, 09:27 am
I don’t really know what the fuss is about.
I take you back to my post during the week, where I said it’s a pity that the careers of good players like Olivier, Rossouw and Potgieter will now be sullied by the terrible rugby that this quota team will inevitably dish up.
My prediction was so accurate, it might as well have been posted in hindsight.
7 Nov 2009, 09:27 am
And in other news
At Half Time in the Air New Zealand Cup: Canterbury 18-3 Wellington
7 Nov 2009, 09:29 am
Grant! How’s the head this morning boet?
7 Nov 2009, 09:30 am
And another thing. I had to shake my head when Snor got coach of the year at the SA Rugby awards.
You could have put Darren Scott in charge of the Bok team, and we would still have won those trophies. The players are that good.
Take away our senior stars, and the REAL coaching ability comes to the fore, unfortunately.
7 Nov 2009, 09:31 am
The reallity is that we the loyal rugby supporters expect to see honest selections on merit – ie the best that can play or the most promising. Would Pdv let a 3rd year medical student perform surgery on him instead of the most qualified professional. haha perhaps they could remove some of his unjustified and over-inflated ego!!
7 Nov 2009, 09:31 am
Oh by the way.
Juan de Jongh is useless.
You heard it here first.
7 Nov 2009, 09:32 am
#105 grant10: Look JS is the best TH in SA at the moment, finished and klaar. The real selection shockers of this tour were: Chilli and Maku over Tiaan and Strauss (who is going to sit on the bench now)? Heinke over WP Nel, Hargreaves over any other lock in the country and Potgieter, Johnson and Raebenhaemer over Deysel, Vermuelen, Steman and Alberts. That said Johnson really stood up and justified his selection. Deysel showed the Pottie fans, surely now people can see Pottie can’t make any impact at this level. Bekker was awesome, I thought he was more physical than Danie even, and this is usually a weak point for him. Rose was also good. De Young must go, he got bounced and slipped tackles all day, out of his depth.
7 Nov 2009, 09:33 am
#118 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
I thought Potgieter was our best forward.
7 Nov 2009, 09:33 am
I just hope this **** about SA’s so called depth will stop. We don’t have depth. Take away JS, Matfield, Bakkies, Juan Smith, Schalk, Du Preez and Habana and see if you can put together a team that can conquer the world with the players that’s left. Don’t even take into account transformation.
7 Nov 2009, 09:35 am
good morning all, nice article grant ball, i’m sure master keo will be thoroughly impressed with it. What are you ever to blame for in your line of work buddy, huh? ****-all! The game of rugby is not about the song & dance by stupid wannabe-scribes like you. **** Muir was part of the selections & took this team through it’s paces and was the man fielding questions earlier in the week, how much “BLAME” is he shouldering?
Mnxim, i don’t even know why i’m responding to such inanities. Yes transformation is to blame, pdv thinking that he can transform jannie du plessis into a world class tighthead and ruan pienaar into a flyhalf. Raubenheimer was overwhelmed by the occassion – deer in headlights!! Potgieter is no backup to brussow- but to be fair even heinrich was nullified in brisbane when the aussies were hunting in a pack @ the breakdown rather than the single sniper option saffas always apply.
Heinie Adams welcome to the big leagues! Even though even fourie du preez sometimes struggles behind a scrum permanently on R-gear. I said yesterday i was going to scrutinise your option taking & general domination of the game. Must say Francois Hougaard must start the next Experiment game so we can see more of what he offered.
Gotta watch some air new zealand cup final rugby…later muppits
7 Nov 2009, 09:36 am
#100 Cheetah 4 Eva: You can write in Dewald Potgieter between Juan Smith and Schalk Burger at 7 in your team. For the rest I agree with you 100 percent.
But don’t you find it very disturbing that Heinke is no 2 on your list and surely even you will agree not far behind Wian, and look at how Heinke was destroyed. Doesn’t that concern you?
7 Nov 2009, 09:40 am
104. catleya :
No need to get uptight!!! everyone has there own oppinions.
Potgieter is not an openside and he proved it yesterday. How much ball did he steal. I can’t actually recall one..
yes his defense is great but so is the defense of the other loose forwards.
Can you honestly say he deserves to be there ahead of Deysel, Louw, Vermeulen or Alberts?
7 Nov 2009, 09:41 am
How the guys the morning… I see the same inbrates are starting the fight again.. Let me have go… Jou ma is ‘n quota… #119 Tacitus: Ashley Johnson…???
7 Nov 2009, 09:42 am
Lets keep our heads here. I think this is the 2nd best team out there:
15. Terrblanche
14. Mapoe
13. Adi (WO should start at 12 for real boks)
12. Grant
10. Ruan
9. Duvet
8. Vermeulen
7. Deysel
6. Stegman
5. Bekker
4. Rossoux
3. JdP
2. Tiaan
1. Guthro
16.) Adrian Strauss
17.) WP Nel
18.) Anton van Zyl
19.) Willem Alberts
20.) Hougaard
21.) Meyer Bosman
22.) Odwa Ndungane
7 Nov 2009, 09:43 am
Deysel is mindless meat. Strong but that’s about it.
Louw. Who is he?
Vermeulen. Should be in the mix, but he’s not better than Potgieter.
Alberts. Strong bugger. Maybe needs a chance. But he’s an 8thman. And there’s only one 8thman who will be starting for the Boks in the next 5 years – barring injuries, of course.
7 Nov 2009, 09:44 am
#124 Langenhoven:
Nah. Too inexperienced for the cauldron he was thrown into last night. Alberts would have served us better at no.8.
Stronger than Johnson, and a lot more experienced at trench warfare.
7 Nov 2009, 09:44 am
#119 Tacitus: Of course you did. He made no cms, did make lots of tackles (but behind ad line), and made 0 steals. He bothered no-one physically, but was obviously much better than Raubenheimer who looked like a school boy.
7 Nov 2009, 09:45 am
Well the rot has started already
…..lets hope that it stays in the second string side and is not infectious!!
7 Nov 2009, 09:46 am
Davon Raubenheimer should still be playing club rugby.
The oke wasnt even great when playing for Griquas! What the hell was PdV expecting?
Pathetic selections. This is all de Villiers can come up with when the big boys are away, showing him up for the rubbish coach that he is
7 Nov 2009, 09:47 am
#127 Tacitus: I don’t think you understand this game to well… Must be your genetic makeup
7 Nov 2009, 09:49 am
#123 JKBridge: Agreed. Pottie is nowhere, especially in NH where strength IS important. He has none. Loosies should have been Vermulen/Alberts Deysel and Stegman. Even with a **** scrum those guys would have made an impact. Strong physical buggers who hit guys and rucks hard. Stegman would have stolen plenty ball.
7 Nov 2009, 09:49 am
#125 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
The “weakest team in AB history” will klap this team like there’s no tomorrow.
Who is Duvet?(9)
7 Nov 2009, 09:49 am
#112 Tacitus: Potgieter was really poor last night. Johnson’s reputation has been sullied in the process.
7 Nov 2009, 09:50 am
I don’t think that we can blame the loosies for not stealing any ball,because stuart failed to penalise the tigers for just going over the top,going off their feet and sealing the ball off everytime
7 Nov 2009, 09:50 am
Guthro was reacquainted to his arse last night. There is no way he’s the 2nd best loose head in the country
7 Nov 2009, 09:54 am
It’s the end of the world! The sun will not come up tomorrow…! PdV should be put on trial and shot by firing squad just before the world does end… Life will never be the same as we know it…
Whatever are we gonna do???(sniff)
Really think most guys are over-reacting. Sure it was a disappointing performance… so what?
It was NOT a Bok side. Caps were NOT awarded. PdV wanted to try out some players that he wanted to see how they performed in a Bok environment… Now he knows…
Ironically I think it was the more established and vaunted players who let us down. JDup was useless. Ruan wasn’t much better. Olivier’s tackling left a lot to be desired. Chili…? Gurthro didn’t feature. With the front shown their backsides everything else went downhill…
Potgieter never bound and supported JDup at scrum time… Ashley Johnson never put his head into the scrum and hardly even got into a shoving position…
Earl Rose had a good game. Bekker had a good game. Johnson had a good game in the loose but needed to put the grunt into the tight… Juan De Jongh had a great defensive game and precious little opportunity on attack…
All in all a poor performance… So what?
How else was PdV going to test the guys that impressed HIM in the CC?
We all know there are better players and we all know what they can do. So does PdV.
Their time will come.
Just like to remind everyone that when these games were scheduled most supporters applauded them and agreed they were the perfect opportunity to blood these young eye-cathers from the CC. I cautioned at the time that if we lost everyone would call for PdV’s head…
Where’s that silver platter…
7 Nov 2009, 09:55 am
#130 WP_: The biggest fkup PDV made was to put DM in charge of the team.. DM is not only useless he is also a fraud and a paracite.. Of the all the opportunities he has been given to make a difference he chooses this one to sabotage bokketeas… typical inbrate mental disorder… The story of the frog and the scorpion comes to mind
7 Nov 2009, 09:55 am
#104 catleya: Pottie is a young Botes. Yes he has a high work rate and makes many tackles and links well, but he has no impact on the game especially in the NH. He knocks nobody back over the gain-line, is light-weight in the ball carry, bothering no defenders and doesn’t steal the ball at all, in fact he battles to slow it down. So, yes, his tackle stats, may look good and even his ball-carries, but really Deysel was more of a threat. This was seen in how many people started to defend against him (as the only and telegraphed ball-carrier) and the attention he got at the breakdown where he was aconstant nuciance. Chuck in Alberts or Vermuelen and our loose trio would have been very strong.
7 Nov 2009, 09:55 am
Sean Maitland scores – Canterbury 25-10 Wellington (63 mins)
7 Nov 2009, 09:58 am
126. Tacitus
I diagree about Deysel. I think he’s more than just mindless meat!!!
Francois Louw from the Stormers – has been playing really well this year.
Don’t get me wrong i think Potgieter is good but not Bok material just yet. One for the future YES!!! I think he should play at 8 only. He’s not big enough for a blindside…
I know Alberts and Vermeulen are always going to be behind Spies and kanko but good back up.
Why do you say Potgieter is better then Vermeulen or any of the rest for that matter?
Nice depth we have in SA just wish the selectors would choose them. LOL… How can anyone honestly say Davon Raubenheimer deserves to be there – it’s madness!!!
7 Nov 2009, 10:00 am
#139 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
On what do you justify Ruan continuing at 10 ??
7 Nov 2009, 10:01 am
Game still on there, Slade yellowed with 14 mins to go, Lions lay siege.
7 Nov 2009, 10:02 am
What a pleasure it was to see the Leicester crowd welcome their SA visitors on to the field. And the silence afforded when the Boks kicked for goal is refreshing – something I haven’t witnessed for years. The booing and jeering when visitors run on, and when they kick for goal, is oh so tiresome.The Leicester crowd are to be congratulated for this demonstration of etiquette which clearly is normal for them.And of course they thoroughly deserved their win.
7 Nov 2009, 10:02 am
You can hardly say bthat the result of this game came as a shock. Barring one or two names (Deysel foremost – and he wasn’t even in the original squad…) it was always a paltry team by “Bok” standards.
Can we blame a lack of cohesion? NO. The British and Irish Lions made a clean sweep of the best and worst of the SA provinces earlier this year. Not to mention that 16 of Leicester’s top players weren’t available.
Another interesting stat – is that another game in which Stuart Dickinson refs the men in green and gold to defeat? Boy, his stats in games involving SA are starting to look very one sided…
But I agree with the main theme of this thread, the main reason we lost were a bizarre hotch-potch of selections.
7 Nov 2009, 10:03 am
#119 Tacitus: I agree. He was fighting that entire Tigers pack. This was one of those games like in the Trinations when the Ausies moered us in the away game, and Brussow was equally ineffective and outgunned, because he was fighting a lone battle.
It was about tackling and unfortunately there was no real support from the other loosies. In this kind of game you need someone to play off defensively like a foil as well, because if you,ve just tackled and are on the ground, you need someone to contest the ball, and vice versa when he tackles, you have to contest. That is why Potgieter and Stegmann are so good and effective together, and why Potgieter and Brussow will be so phenomenal. The coach should never have pulled Brussow from the game.
Funny that Deysel is being singled out as having had a good game. He was nowhere physically as carrier or on defence, although even that was better than Raubenheimer.
And in a game like this you need an 8 that can mix it in the tight loose as well.
7 Nov 2009, 10:03 am
#130 WP_:
Ai, ai, ai, ai.
7 Nov 2009, 10:08 am
ouch, Lions score 25-18
7 Nov 2009, 10:08 am
#121 Transformation: Interesting, so now Muir, and not PdV or the Sports Ministry, is to blame for team selections? Nonsense. PdV openly stated the squad is the very best SA has to offer. Conclusion? PdV is either dishonest or delusional. Take your pick.
Why criticise J du Plessis without mentioning Steenkamp, whose scrummaging was suspect for quite some time now? And remember, it is PdV who decided to leave the two best front rows (Cheetahs and WP) back home in SA.
Since you call yourself “Transformation”, I’m sure you have the ability to comment on it. Chiliboy, Maku, Steenkamp, Raubenheimer, Adams and Rose are quota players and don’t belong in a Bok jersey. Let’s not be coy about it.
Moreover, Pienaar’s flyhalf experiment has failed repeatedly, and yet PdV stubbornly persists with his dream of turning him into the Larkham of SA rugby. No one but PdV is to blame for that fiasco.
Instead of lambasting Keo and his writers, maybe you should criticise those who are really hampering the quality of SA rugby.
7 Nov 2009, 10:09 am
#133 nama1: Ya, but not a bad B-team at least it would have beaten Leicester.
#142 justrugby: Its for the same reason I still would have picked Guthro and Jannie. They have shown before they can step up at the highest level. Less than a year ago Ruan got man-of-the-match at 10 against England, Jannie played in the WC and Guthro is kak, but I would still have himover inexperienced props, maybe Wiaan would be better.
7 Nov 2009, 10:09 am
25-20 and 5 mins left with Cantabs still with 14 men
7 Nov 2009, 10:13 am
Grant Ball, Good article. You said it all. Agree 100% there.
Selections what cost us and the ones that should have been there were sitting at home watching on TV.
A total disgrace. Select the best always and reward the players that have played well in the CC. How some got selected is just stupid.
7 Nov 2009, 10:16 am
Canterbury won again.
7 Nov 2009, 10:17 am
#141 JKBridge: Raubenheimer is a fantastic find and will step up when the coach provides him with a bit more of instruction other than “play at 7.. jy weet mos”… **** Muir is useless
7 Nov 2009, 10:18 am
#89 Brigadier Van Zyl:
Johnsom missed few more
And he missed quite a few last week in the CC
#94 nama1: final
it’s spelled ‘Bultong’ in Afrikaans, it’s the Germanic Ü that is pronounced ‘ei’
7 Nov 2009, 10:19 am
#152 Puma: Damn… are you back again. Was last nights punishment not enough???
7 Nov 2009, 10:23 am
#156 Langenhoven: Damn… are you still looking for k*k on keo?
7 Nov 2009, 10:26 am
#144 superba:
Funny, I commented during the game how utterly dull the Leicester stands looked, compared to sea of horned, painted and flag waving fanatics at Loftus Versfeld.
It’s almost like playing in a cemetary, compared to Roftus!
7 Nov 2009, 10:27 am
#150 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
You meant Leicester’s 2nd team with few reserve team players?
It was by no means Leister 1st team yesterday, no way near!
The Leicester ‘B’ team lost on Sunday to Leeds, and it was stronger than the team the Boks faced yesterday!
Now go figure the real magnitude of the defeat!
7 Nov 2009, 10:28 am
#157 wooden spoon: Hi Spooner, where in the world are you today, saw you appear and just had to say ‘Hi’.
Are you still enjoying your Epic Tour?
7 Nov 2009, 10:28 am
Couldn’t think of anything worse than going to uncouth, racist Loftus. Not my cup of tea, thanks.
7 Nov 2009, 10:29 am
Well, Potgieter had an excellent game against a much stronger pack than last night, when the Emerging Boks drew with the British Lions in Cape Town.
7 Nov 2009, 10:30 am
#158 Tacitus: Leicester is a strange place famous for Gary Linneker and Walkers Crisps!
The Tigers Fans do wear fancy shirts!!
7 Nov 2009, 10:30 am
#160 carol: Hi Carol – Ho Chi Minh City, a good place, lots happening. Thanks for saying hi, I gotta go now though – keep the peace!
7 Nov 2009, 10:32 am
#164 wooden spoon:
Watch out for left over landmines.
7 Nov 2009, 10:33 am
#164 wooden spoon: Keep in touch and have fun!!
7 Nov 2009, 10:35 am
These guys would be playing for tests in other countries:
Deysel
Vermeulen
Stegman
Alberts
Liebeneburg
Mapoe
Yet none were in the original squad.
These players would battle to make the Leicester squad:
Chilliboy
Maku
Rabenheimer
Hargreaves
The selection was horrible. How Chilli and Maku are considered 2nd and 3rd best hookers in SA is a mystery. They are closer to 10th and 14th choice. I mean really, Strauss or Liebenburg will be called up and go straight to the test 22.
7 Nov 2009, 10:36 am
For me, without a doubtm the tight 5 were poor. Especially Bekker & Russouw.
These two were supposed to be the go to men. I would not expect them to loose any line out ball against the inferior opposition (no disrespect to Leicester, but you could hardly think your locks are really beter)
Furthermore, Bekker & Russouw are the poorest ball carrying locks in world rugby. Both run far too upright, and very often (as like last night) loose the ball in the tackle.
Essentially, although they were better than the rest of the Bok pack, they were expected to be, and as a result, should also probably get 2’s or 3?3.
Front row – Totally outplayed (as expected) I said before the game that our front row would be schooled against the Leicester pack. Castro is one of the strongest 3’s in world rugby, Stankovich is also a strong man. I was, however appalled at how badly we folded.
I will not throw bad comments at Raubenheimer, De Jongh, Adams, Hargreaves & Rose as they should never have been in that side in the first place. All that has happened now, is that possibly the confidence of these players will be dented further and they might not ever reach their Springbok potential. They were thrown in too early and humbled.
I would have expected more of Ngundane (although he had 0 opportunities), Meisiekind & Ruaan. We did have attacking ball during some second phase play, but sadly, we looked inept during attack. This is because these players were thrown together with reckless abandon. There was not 1 recognised combination on that park. Every player was an individual, and it showed.
Poor Poor Poor coaching staff decisions. All you have done is break the belief and confidence of some of the players.
Never in a million years should a Bok side have lost to Leicester like that, especially when the bulk of the Emerging Boks who played against the Lions be sitting in SA out of favour for whatever reason!
7 Nov 2009, 10:38 am
#162 Tacitus: Yes but with Deysel and Vermeulen to do the physical stuff. You have to admit our tight-loose improved dramatically when Deysel came on. Even when Danie went off for Hargreaves. Heinke, I thought was also physical in the tight loose.
7 Nov 2009, 10:38 am
I always thought that the point of being a Springbok supporter was supporting the team through thick and thin and hoping it does well, even if you don’t agree with the selections?
7 Nov 2009, 10:40 am
#170 WP Till I Die:
I agree a starting trio of Potgieter, Deysel, Vermeulen would have been far stronger than the **** we had last night.
7 Nov 2009, 10:40 am
**** Muir: “I don’t think I’ve ever seen (a South Africa pack) as bad as that, especially from a coaching perspective. We were given a bit of a lesson at the scrums.”
“Hats off to the Tigers. They were incredibly strong in that department so we’ve got to go back to the drawing board.”
7 Nov 2009, 10:41 am
#170 WP Till I Die:
What planet are you from! Ridiculous notion.
7 Nov 2009, 10:42 am
#168 BULLET: Agree with most of what you say, well thought out. But I thought Bekker was good. More physical than normal. Can you really blame him when you have Maku throwing in? Also Maku not a proven scrummager. Tiaan Liebenburg or even Strauss would have had a huge impact on this side. Add a decent loose trio to the mix and we would have won.
7 Nov 2009, 10:43 am
how is loftus rascist ?
7 Nov 2009, 10:43 am
#174 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
Can’t fire Chilli.
The BMF will moan that yet another black Chief Executive is being made a scapegoat!
7 Nov 2009, 10:43 am
#123 JKBridge: Yes, unequivocally. Don’t listen to the provincial bias of the Ratel Brussows of this world who are trying to talk up their “Mindless meat” as Tacitus so so elloquently put it.
When a team has the kind of momentum that the Tigers got from their Scrum last night it comes at you like wave upon wave crashing onto you, and all you can do is tackle, tackle, tackle and get up and tackle again. You are continuously on your heels and obviously the momentum they have means that your tackles are made on or behind the advantage line. It was because Pottie was the only loosie tackling that he could not get up to fetch as well. It is like swimming in a strong current in huge waves that dump you and as soon as you get your head above water the next one hits you. Should he have ignored the tackling and jogged along untill someone else made the tackle twenty meters further and then try to steal the ball? Doesn’t make sense does it, but according to you guys he would then have had a good game because he is fetching. In any case, as a 6 he is more in the mould of Schalk than Brussow, just like Steggies is more like Brussow.
If there was someone else helping him he might have been more effective by trying to get his hands on the ball like when he and Stegmann nullified Brussow in the CC final by making 20 turnovers to Brussows 9.
Do yourself and look at Rugby 365′s rating of the players. They obviously understand the dynamics of this type of game situation much better than the lightweights at Keo, who can only echo what they hear, irrespective of whether it is true or not. And unfortunately some of the bloggers here suffer the same affliction. I think they call it Provincialism.
Take the Bulls S14 game against the Highlanders- they were murdered in a similar game, but learnt from that and came back and won the S14.
Likewise, the all-conquering testboks vs Aus in the trinations, when the same thing happened to Brussow, and they came back and won.
A similar team to this suffered the same at the hands of the BIL’s, and Pottie didn’t plat then. Says it all.
As for Katman, he’s just disagreeing with with Tacitus because that is his nature.
No guys, give credit where credit is due. Pottie stood alone in the face of what threatened to be a fifty point margin in favour of the Tigers and took us in the end when he took over the captaincy where only a brainless deviation from structure by Ashley Johnson due to his inexperience cost us what would have been a vindicating win.
7 Nov 2009, 10:43 am
#171 Tacitus: For sure that would have been a huge improvement. Stegman deserves to be there instead of Pottie.
7 Nov 2009, 10:43 am
#171 Tacitus:
Agreed, it would have been stronger, with Francois Louw on the bench.
Personally, I would have picked the following side:
1. wian du Preez
2. Tiaan Liebenberg
3. Wicus Blaauw
4. Danie Rossouw
5. Andries Bekker
6. Dewaldt Potgieter
7. Jean Deysel
8. Duanne Vermeuelen
9. Sarel Pretorius
10. Peter Grant
11. Jongi Nokwe
12. Wynand Olivier
13. Juan de Jongh
14. Lionel Mapoe
15. Joe Pietersen
Maybe some provincial bias of mine showing through there, but that is a side I reckon could have done very well.
7 Nov 2009, 10:44 am
#175 klippies101:
Take it from where it comes.
7 Nov 2009, 10:45 am
#178 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
Personally, I’d go with Potgieter, Stegman, and Vermeulen
7 Nov 2009, 10:46 am
#162 Tacitus: well faubenheimer played well too against the b&i lions for the royal xv! Did you conviniently forget that? Goodness you’re a narrow-minded fossil…
7 Nov 2009, 10:48 am
You cant scrum….you will get caught out….
Boks cant scrum
Will get caught out….
Watch this space
Frogs can scrum
Hier kom groot kak.
Ratel ….live in your delusional world of J Smit at 3….Ruan at 10….
Sharks get on there moer again next super 14….like cheetahs moered them in semi….
Then blame kanko, Botes, etc…..you scared wallys dont want to see the obvious…..
Cowards man!
7 Nov 2009, 10:49 am
#182 Transformation:
And you’re most likely a merit-less gravy train rider, adding zero to the SA economy.
But back to the rugby. If Raubenheimer was ANY good, one of the Big 5 unions would have bought him long ago.
7 Nov 2009, 10:50 am
One thing’s for sure – the Springboks need a decent scrumming coach…
7 Nov 2009, 10:51 am
#177 catleya: You spew rugby myths like fact: “If there was someone else helping him he might have been more effective by trying to get his hands on the ball like when he and Stegmann nullified Brussow in the CC final by making 20 turnovers to Brussows 9.” Using this example is pathetic. For 1 Stegman made most of the steals and 2 FS were playing a quick running game and had most of the possesion, Bulls were defending a lot and kicking when they had the chance. Obviously you have forgotten a simple truth, you can’t steal the ball if you already have it!
“In any case, as a 6 he is more in the mould of Schalk than Brussow” Another myth spewed as though fact. Schalk at his best and even now is hugely physical, ask anybody who plays Schalk and they’ll say he hurts people. Pottie is nothing like Schalk, he hurts nobody and relies on his brains and linking skills. If anything Deysel is more in the Schalk mould.
Continue to rate Pottie over Deysel, Stegman, Vermuelen and Alberts. I don’t know how you can, but hey. Provincialism has nothing to do with it as the 4 I mention are all from seperate provinces and in fact Stegman also plays for the Bulls.
7 Nov 2009, 10:52 am
#184 Tacitus:
Ag nee man, Tacitus, daai aanmerking is benede jou.
7 Nov 2009, 10:55 am
#183 grant10: Ruan on the bench covering 9 and 10. What is wrong with that. He had a poor game, but I still think he is back-up to Morne. Come on? Who is a better 3 in SA at the moment, WP Nel? Uncapped 23 year-old? Come on?
7 Nov 2009, 10:55 am
#186 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
What I’ve picked up so far:
You have something against Dewald Potgieter. Maybe he is just a threat to your favourites, I don’t know.
You are a HUGE fan of Jean Deysel.
My view: Potgieter was a major reason why the Bulls did so well in the S14 and in the Currie Cup. His combination with Spies and Stegman is superb.
He has been great for the Emerging Boks, and is a massive prospect.
Deysel is a strong man, and a decent ball carrier. He hasn’t had the impact Potgieter has had so far in his career, but that may be due to injury. He is more of a work horse, but he does little to excite.
I would not play Potgieter in a weak pack. But if I had Spies and a good fetcher in a trio, together with a good tight five, Potgieter would be my choice as the other flank.
It’s all about combinations.
7 Nov 2009, 10:55 am
Dewalt Potgieter and Earl Rose the only players that played well last nite….Dewalt is not a fetcher anyway….Steggmann the next best ‘brussow’
But PDV seems hell bent on dropping Brussow sometime as well….so wtf then???
We still think we can just moer everybody….big wake up last nite i tell you.
Dewalt should be at 8….Brussow at 6 and Deysel at 7 vs frogs…..
Front row we in our moer anyway….too late there….Wiaan Du Preez and WP Nel…Buuys sitting at home…CJ and BJ …Faan Rautenbach unavailable….Beast and Smitty gonna have to come to the party….i shudder at the prospect.
Next year…make the tough calls…..
Maar so kan dit nie dornerse voortgaan nie!!
7 Nov 2009, 10:56 am
#187 WP Till I Die:
Wel, as jou logon naam “Transformation” is, spreek dit al klaar boekdele oor jou.
7 Nov 2009, 10:58 am
Gotta go.
Things to do on a Saturday.
7 Nov 2009, 10:58 am
#188 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Ruan does not want the 10 jersey….JL Potgieter would have put his body on the line….iJustrugby has told you 1000 times….Ruan is a fruitcake…soft in the head…doesent cut it at 10….
I would rather have a capable 23 year old rookie than a 3 that cant scrum for toffee….but wait boet…wait,
Chickens coming home to roost
7 Nov 2009, 11:01 am
#48 Bentoshi:
take off your severely tinted glasses and you will see that you are 100% wrong. everybody knows that an even slightly promising player of colour gets selected miles ahead of his white choms. transformation should never be forced into action like in this country. it should be allowed to happen as a natural process.
7 Nov 2009, 11:02 am
#189 Tacitus: Good post. Yes I do have something against Pottie. He is simply not good enough in anyone position to be a bok. At 6 Brussow, Stegman, Schalk. At 7 Smith, Schalk, Vermuelen, Deysel. At 8 Spies, Kanko, Alberts, Vermeuelen. He is a blue eyed boy. Quite simply he deserves his place about as much as chilliboy deserves to be the captain of this side.
I do rate Deysel as a 7. Not to start boks, where I think Vermeulen would be better, but to come off bench. Deysel is a strong ball carrier, makes huge hits in defense and ruck time and also steals more ball and slows it down then he is given credit for. He is perfect fot the European winter conditions.
7 Nov 2009, 11:04 am
#194 iamyourfather: So are you saying white superiority is not a myth and that apartheid was unecessary because it gave whites advantages they did not need???
7 Nov 2009, 11:04 am
#184 Tacitus: ha ha ha every black person to you is a “gravy train-rider contributing nothing to the economy”? Ha ha ha you belong over there by RT Tac.
7 Nov 2009, 11:06 am
98. catleya
First of all,you pick combinations and not individuals.
One man can be beaten but combinations that have played
together can make a plan.
So the front row should have been the Cheetahs front row.
The lock combination should have been the WP combination.
Last nights flanker trio would have done well behind behind
the above tight five.
Pienaar is not happy at flyhalf and I would looked around
for a working combination and I think Grant and Duvenhage
would have done a better job.
The centre combination shows promise, but the back trio
did not combine well ,Pietersen,Mapoe and Hougaard would
in my opinion have been a better combination.These players
are a combination of determination, strength and flair.
By the way I am a Lions supporter and in my opinion v.d
Merwe should have stayed at home. After a long lay off
due to injury he should not be expected to perform at his best.
I am not saying PDV is a bad coach but for sure his team
selections are woeful and he has to make up his mind whether
or not he wants to serve South African ruby or his political
masters.He cant satisfy both and as shown last night he missed
the boat by a mile.
7 Nov 2009, 11:07 am
#193 grant10: JL Potgieter on bench instead of Ruan????
WP Nel to start instead of John Smit????
Do you realise how ridiculous you sound?
A year ago Ruan was playing brilliantly in test matches, JLP was too bad to play for FS.
This year J Smits Springboks conquered everything, while you probably hadn’t even heard of WP Nel, who was battling to start for FS.
How clearly do you think things through?
7 Nov 2009, 11:09 am
OK..lets close thispage
7 Nov 2009, 11:09 am
Let me the first on teh next page
7 Nov 2009, 11:12 am
#201 Langenhoven: You did it! Any chance you can play prop? We need someone to deliver what they promise!
7 Nov 2009, 11:15 am
#202 scar: I weigh 90kg… to light mate…hooker maybe
7 Nov 2009, 11:16 am
#203 Langenhoven: we’ll they heavies (read: Guthro & Jannie) don’t deliver, so why not a different approach!
7 Nov 2009, 11:18 am
OK… gonna have some breakfast… til later and don’t slander while I am away
7 Nov 2009, 11:18 am
#199 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): ratel…you a wanker my boy….you only see what you want to see….Ruan is no 10…he doesent want to play there.
J Smit is a bloody useless tighthead…but you are so blinded by your pathetic sentimentality that you look the other way.
You are so 1 eyed it is pathetic…seriously havent got time for your kak today.
Keep on living in Cloud Cuckoo…..
I give up with ignoramuses like you….
Got a hangover and so the moer in that we allowed this scrumming disaster to now nail us….so i am outta here….
But plonker…wake up and smell the coffee……we have serious front row issues…and victory plastered over the obviuous cracks….stop being a blind little bat…ffs man!
7 Nov 2009, 11:20 am
Go poms and Wales….
And ffs PDV get on the telephone to CJ and BJ….
Enough ie enough!!!
Get that SCRUM SORTED!!
7 Nov 2009, 11:24 am
#184 Tacitus: if the people in charge of recruiting for the “big” provinces have the same narrow-minded & bigoted mentality as you then i don’t have to wonder why players like raubenheimer don’t get drafted into those teams!
7 Nov 2009, 11:26 am
#206 grant10: I always thought you blogged sense rather than insults, but hey, I guess eventually you show your true colours.
Players from overseas are not considered, for obvious reasons as most of our A boks would go straight over. So deal with reality.
Also to pick JlP and WP Nel over Ruan and Smit, surely this is madness in the international arena?
You’re niave to think any coach in the world would do that. I am sure you are hoping the bok scrum gets creamed and you are finaly vindicated, cause all your other mad rantings have been proven wrong. Personally I hope and believe the guys will stand up and deliver, proving their detractors wrong for the 5th time this season.
7 Nov 2009, 11:28 am
#208 Transformation: Come now dude, Raubenheimer was a terrible selection when you consider the loose forward talent. I won’t be suprised if he doesn’t get drafted for S14, SA has huge loosie talent.
7 Nov 2009, 11:28 am
#209 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Delusional you are….prefer to talk about the loose trios and judging Dewalt and Raubenheimer ?
Hoe the hell can a loosie play with the carnage of a scrum in turbo reverse….?
Wake up boet…please!
7 Nov 2009, 11:29 am
#210 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Dont judge Raubenheimer on 1 game….iys the scrum that farks everything up!!
7 Nov 2009, 11:34 am
Amen tell it like it is… a disgraceful performance.
7 Nov 2009, 11:36 am
#211 grant10: The scrum was terrible. Hookers who? Still think Vermuelen, Deysel, Stegman would hav ewon the tight loose
7 Nov 2009, 11:42 am
#122 catleya: Poor Henke hasn’t played rugby in six months…. how can any person with half a brain, ask him to come on as a replacement…
He is a very destructive lossehead, but after a knee injury, he should have proved his quality before being selected ahead of players that produced sterling performances in the CC
7 Nov 2009, 11:42 am
#186 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
Probably because they are in fact truths which you choose to see through your black and white lenses as myths because they don’t suit your agenda.
Fact is Pottie switched to 6 at number 99 for the sake of the team. why do you judge him as a 6? That is only another quiver in his bow. As is 8. None of the guys you mention as your preferences can bring 6, 7 and 8 to the table at the level that he can.
Take your darling Deysel- the ver first ball he carried he was tackled back two meters, and from there it was more of the sme, except for once where he bumped off a guy anf actually gained 3 meters, and another time when he made a few meters. So what does all his meat and bulk help? Pottie with his “brains and linking” will be my choice every time.
Why do you think PdV had Brussow and Pottie down as a combo for this match? Not because Brussow was dropped as everybody was squealing like pigs to the slaughter about, but because he wanted to see the two together because he believes they are the future as a pair. Unfortunately fate intervened and he had to make the call to pull Brussow because the test is more important tha this game. But I believe we will see them sooner rather than later, maybe even in the test with Pottie coming off the bench. With Spies injured and Danie R clearly jaded, and Andries back, and given the state of the scrums he will probably have to pick a 5/2 split on the bench, and be a little more inventive and pull a rabitt from the hat in Smitty if Bissie gets injured, allowing a bench which I reckon, after last night, will be:
Heinke,
Jannie duP
Andries Bekker
Danie Rossouw
Dewald Potgieter
Ruan Pienaar
Wynand Olivier
Dewald is absolutely essential, because we need his cover at 8 if Kanko battles behind a retreating scrum, God forbid. Truth is, if you thought last night was bad, imagine what the test will be like now that the Frogs know our Achilles heel.
7 Nov 2009, 11:47 am
#125 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): After this, you still pick Guthro, and J du P??? Guess I rest my case!!
#141 JKBridge: Because Potgieter plays for the Bulls, Taccie, hardly ever removes his blue shades lol!!
7 Nov 2009, 11:49 am
#210 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): hey ratel…the point i was trying to make to Tac was that he must stop making excuses for dewalt sub-par performance yesterday. That he has to selectively go & quote dewalt’s good performance against the b&i lions is pathetic…i was only remimding him that raubenheimer & makuena had good games too against the lions for the royal xv…
7 Nov 2009, 11:51 am
danie rossouw,potgieter,wynand olivier(numerous chances but still only a s14 player),chilly,steenkamp,potgieter,adamsshould make use of their return ticket immediately.deysel can also join them because he’s just a quota shark selection to keep their representation for the boks in double figures.
7 Nov 2009, 11:54 am
#216 catleya: Deysel not experienced, John Smit is our captain and must start inhis best position; hooker. He is not as good as Bismark, Kuhn, chillie in the loose but great scrummager (at hooker, not prop) and our best captain.
Deysel needs experience should be on tour purely for that reason. Looking at form though Free State loosies whipped Natal and overshadowed Bulls, is there space for Deysel. Potgieter/Stegman great combination. Kanko has had a kak season and shouldn’t be there. Play Schalk, Potgieter, Johnson as 8.
Ruan Pienaar is not a flyhalf yet. Either give him game time to develop at Provincial level or keep him at his preferred position, scrumhalf. Adams is over-rated. Franscois Hougaard is the best up coming scrumhalf in the country. I would play rickie before Adams. In Adams defence I think Fourie would have struggled behind that pack.
7 Nov 2009, 11:56 am
Ah yes. The old PdV should have, could have argument.
Whats new?
7 Nov 2009, 11:58 am
There was zero heart last night. The players are also to blame.
I’ve always been a huge Ruan fan but dam I think its time for him to go back to Currie Cup/Super 14 for a year and regain some form. He was rubbish last night!!!!
Rose was okay but is still never a Test 22 contender. Odwa was solid(ish) and Nokwe chased hard. BUT there was no one running that back 3. No one took charge. Zero leadership their.
Adams might have been behind a losing pack, but so was FH, who looked infinitly better than Adams when he came on.
Pure pure quota for last night: Chillyboy,Maku,Adams.
I like Adams, but lets be honest, he’s probs the 8th best 9 in SA.
My midweek bok team:
15 Terblanch
14 Mphoe
13 De Jongh
12 WO
11 Nokwe
10 Grant
9 FH
8 Danie
7 Potgieter
6 Deysel
5 Bekker
4 Muller
3,2,1 Cheethas front row.
7 Nov 2009, 12:01 pm
Deysel showed some good moments last night, but often lost the ball in contact. Johnson (despite not adding much at scrum time) was breaking the advantage line, showed great hands and was able to get the ball back when tackled.
my 10 cents worth …
7 Nov 2009, 12:03 pm
#218 Transformation: Nobody is saying John Smit should be dropped, but the warning signs have been posted months ago..
What we are saying is the second tier of players should be exposed to the Springbok culture, not mad hatter selections to appease politicians.
Run on 15 for the Boks with potential to be developed in ()
1. Wian (Heinke and Beast
2. Bismark (Strauss and Liebenberg)
3. Smit ( WP Nel and Harris)
4. Bakkies (Sykes or Anton van Zyl)
5. Vic (Bekkere, Muller or David de Villiers)
6. Brussow (Louw or Stegmann)
7. Smith (Burger/Deysel or Vermeulen)
8. Spies (Alberts, Kanko or Potgieter)
9. F du P (Pretorius, Hougaard)
10. Morne Steyn ( ???? serious lack of candidates)
11. Habana (Nokwe or Mvovo/vd Heever)
12. Olivier (Bosman, Grant, Doppies)
13. Jacque Fourie (De Jongh, Hollenbach)
14. JPP ( Mapoe, Basson)
15. Kirchner (Pieterson, Earl)
Surely these are the next best we have , but by 2011, a host of u 21 stars will be in contention. Guys like Patrick Lambie, Tiger bax, Wayne Stevens and some seriously talented props, locks and loosies!!
7 Nov 2009, 12:03 pm
#222 CenturionShark (aka LondonShark): Was going to ask if you were a Sharks fan when I read your teamsheet, but then noticed you are not shy about your allegiance!
7 Nov 2009, 12:04 pm
#215 Cheetah 4 Eva: I would have picked Cheetah 1,2,3 and would have loved to see Pottie and Brussow and Ashley together last night. But unfortunately we will have to wait to see.
7 Nov 2009, 12:05 pm
#224 Cheetah 4 Eva: well said
The curse of South African rugby has always the comment “serious lack of candidates” next to number10
7 Nov 2009, 12:06 pm
#226 catleya: Or Pottie, Stegman/Louw and Johnson
7 Nov 2009, 12:08 pm
A pathetic political squad will produce pathetic results !!!
7 Nov 2009, 12:10 pm
#227 scar: I think they should make Peter Grant the second choice 10 for the Bokke
7 Nov 2009, 12:14 pm
pick the stormers and cheetahs front-rows and loosies and most of our problems would be over but we had to indulge the currie cup champions in selecting 15 of their idiots,well at least the the majority of that 15.the least we say about the sharks and their supporters the better because these idiots had been deluding themselves all season.
7 Nov 2009, 12:15 pm
Well there was a reason that RL did not watch this match.
With that token captain who I predicted will only last 39 minutes and with a couple of other no name brands the result was a no brainer.
7 Nov 2009, 12:19 pm
Morning guys. It was interesting watching the match thread, last night and the level of hysteria coming from a number of bloggers. Sh*t, it looked like Jack the Ripper had been let loose in the girls res at varsity, the way some of the guys were carrying on.
This team was a mix of the backup players from our regular squad and potential candidates for after 2011 that have little S14 experience, to see whether they have the ability to perform on a bigger stage. As it happened, it was the Bok regulars who let us down badly not so much the youngsters.
Because we run a squad system, the coaches can’t just dump players on a wholesale basis during the season and, as I posted yesterday, I got the impression that this was a make or break for a number of regulars before PdeV starts to assemble his WC squad over the next 18 months. Players like Wian, WP, Vermeulen, Strauss etc. are already in his plans, which is why they were left behind. He took this last opportunity to see what may be available after 2011 to feed into the next squad as potential backups.
7 Nov 2009, 12:21 pm
#222 CenturionShark (aka LondonShark): Ruaan has been rubbish for quite somw time now.
7 Nov 2009, 12:21 pm
#231 Valkyrie: WPNel shoved both Beast and Guthro backwards WP Nel’s weight is 92 kgs a full 30kgs lighter than anyone he has scrummed own against. We need a proper scrum coach. The Cheethas fortunes were resurrected when Os started helping out. Not all that shines is Gold and Gary is a living example.
Forget about who scrums in the front, without proper coaching they wont mke it even if they weigh in at 150 kgs. And by teh way a prop needs a lock to push behind him.
7 Nov 2009, 12:26 pm
#212 grant10: Grant I think for the first time I have to disagree with you completely. Raubenheimer is average at best and shouldnt be ina abok jersey. I wanted to reserve judgement on him, but he was worse than poor last night. He didnt even try. And his early substitution by Deysel was testament to the fact that I wasnt the only one thinking that. He at the very least should have shown some pride in his first outing in a Bok jersey and gone down fighting tooth and nail. He didnt. Thats the diff between him and Ashley Johnson… Johnson tried his best and I have to commend him for that. I actually felt for the guy last night – he didnt deserve to go out there on his first outing and have to be part of such a shambles.
7 Nov 2009, 12:27 pm
#224 Cheetah 4 Eva: john smit? I didn’t even talk about john dude…
7 Nov 2009, 12:28 pm
#235 Objective 101: good points.any issues between os and pdv?
7 Nov 2009, 12:28 pm
#229 GP: Agreed, you can either have a transformation team or a winning team, but you will never have both
Saw Raubenheimer take some good photos of the match though
7 Nov 2009, 12:28 pm
#230 GP: Yep Agreed . He´s more stable then Ruaan at least. I´d rather have more average than disaster and last night Ruaan was disaster as he has been on many occasions.
7 Nov 2009, 12:30 pm
#235 Objective 101:
I think you should check out the Cheetahs website to see the weight of WP Nel.
WP Nell
Mass: 116kg
Height: 1.82m
7 Nov 2009, 12:31 pm
#236 Slumtown: Again, I concur
Ashley, Potgieter, Rossouw and Bekker played their part as individuals
The only time I saw Bandise was when he had to through in at a lineout
7 Nov 2009, 12:31 pm
#235 Objective 101: Do not believe the TV stats hehehehe!
7 Nov 2009, 12:32 pm
#243 JL1: I wish Sky or Supersport would weigh me?
7 Nov 2009, 12:33 pm
#240 Slumtown: I wont call Grant average. I would say he is more stable at flyhalf than Pienaar.
We cant blame Pienaar. He wants to play at 9, PDV keeps picking him at 10 to carry a quota 9 in the squad!!!
7 Nov 2009, 12:35 pm
#239 JL1: he will cherish those photos for a long time and will give thanks to pdv in all of his prayers before going to bed.
7 Nov 2009, 12:36 pm
Fortunately I didn’t see the game, but I suspect the real culprit is **** Muir. The lack of synergy and breakdown turnovers sound like Muir’s influence. I would like to congratulate with the Lions’ appointment of DOR.
However, the other thing we must consider is that our players never seem to take these fixtures seriously. We almost lost to Connacht in 2007, and second string sides always seem to lack commitment. The problem may be that the players already know they’re not going to make the first team, or, alternatively, lack cohesion because they are too individualistic. Either way it’s a problem the coaching staff must solve.
7 Nov 2009, 12:37 pm
#245 GP: I mean average as in not too flashy. He´s just a good all round player.
I´m agreeing with you
7 Nov 2009, 12:39 pm
johnson and bekker the only two in the pack that tried and nokwe,rose,de jongh in the backline.
7 Nov 2009, 12:42 pm
#225 scar:
Hey, not many sharks in that midweek team of mine (only 3 in fact)
7 Nov 2009, 12:43 pm
#234 Slumtown:
Essh you right man. His last complete game was the 1st Lions test.
7 Nov 2009, 12:50 pm
#48 Bentoshi: “A player of colour has to play has to play his heart out to achieve what a white player on average can do.” – Put really succinctly if unintentionally. White kids (especially Afrikaners) are way more naturally gifted rugby players and hence the domination in the sport. For some reason at senior level contrary to what you say, they work a lot harder hence perform at a way higher level. Like it or not!
7 Nov 2009, 12:51 pm
i really don’t know what all the fuss is all about.leicester wont be the last midweek club team that beat a touring team ,it happened to australia and the kiwis in the past and those countries are still standing today.the way some of the blokes on here are losing their cool it’s as if it is the end of the world and that tomorrow will never comes.pdv at least experiments in club games unlike jake white that showed no respect for test match culture and experimented in full-blooded test matches.he was at the end of the day forgiven for that because he won the world cup and i just wonder if pdv will be afforded the same forgiveness one day.what will it take?…mabe winning the world cup or beating the kiwis to a pulp in nz for thge next two years.just wondering
7 Nov 2009, 12:51 pm
Earl Rose was most impressive.
Give us another one like that Earl and I will publicly apologise.
Your only weakness was consistency, now give us that.
Oh and kudo’s to Ashley Johnson too.
7 Nov 2009, 12:52 pm
Thanks PoepolPiet,
that was a simple masterstroke for transformation.
That Chilli is something ‘ey?
What a captain.
Wow.
As for those other plonkers,
including Pienaar and his geen-ballasgaffie neigings.
Bravo.
Stunned the who world with your tactical genius there
Poepolpiet.
7 Nov 2009, 12:55 pm
#253 Valkyrie: You do know that Leicester was missing their top 16 players!
7 Nov 2009, 12:56 pm
Now that you Cleared away Transformation,
could you tackle corruption please
Poepolpiet,
your genius will surely save us.
7 Nov 2009, 13:03 pm
what i cant understand is when reading some stuff here is the lack of knowledge of the game
they will shout a players name for being brilliant without really knowing why he was good or bad
i will make 2 or 3 examples why i say this
ashley johnstone , i say was average , some say brillaint
i say deysel was the best looseforward , specially for the conditions up north last night
potti i say was average , while some say he was brilliant and its not his fault
these 3 are all loose forwards , and i wont even mention raubenheimer as he is not in that league yet and should not have been there
a loose forward has certain functions
scrumming
linking with backline
defence etc
lineouts
carrying balls up and driving
winning loose balls(fetching)
so if you took those 5 aspects of play and judged it honestly then see if the player you speak of truelly did well
1) DEYSEL scrummed well got body low and scrummed wich assisted jannie
he drove and gained meters , yes lost one ball no support
defended well , tried fetching but there no loose forward of the bok team should be blamed as the ref allowed the togers to fall over and come in from side so not a fair contest
linesouts fine
linked with backline and boks started getting some front foot ball
2) POTTIE did not scrum well and like raubenheimer and johnstone his body position ws to upright and gave the from 5 no support
missed a few tackles but he did tackle well , and tried to drive with passion but he does not have the deysel alberts schalk type stregnth
in saying that he also over ran the defensive lines twice which made gaps
lineouts fine
linked with backline fine
did not win a turnover but i have explained that
3)JOHNSTONE
scrummed poorly
linked with backline fine
lineouts okay
defence not good at all missed many tackles
did carry ball up strongly and showed good pace
agreed these players have not played together before
they cannot be blammed for lineout losses as the throw in’s were not up to scratch
so when one rates a player one should look at the total picture
and so one should look at each position ,
people blame the front row and i agree they did not play well
actuslly i thought jannie tried hard and was all over but he did keep giving away silly penalties in the loose play
how can we say the front row was so useless of the 5 behind them didnt scrum that well|???
that same tiger scrum would have gotten a beating if they scrummed with only the front row like we did
a scrum has to be 8 players shoving not just 4 or 5
7 Nov 2009, 13:04 pm
at the end of the day pdv is the supreme boss and all of us and some of the supposedly superior human beings on this website will have to live with pdv’s decisions for the bok team…end of story.i did not agree with jake white’s decisions two years before the world cup but i had to live with it.
7 Nov 2009, 13:04 pm
#254 PissAnt: was his best game in some time agreed but his defence was not good
and out of position quite a few times mate
same for odwa and nokwe
7 Nov 2009, 13:08 pm
#255 Duiwel: “PoepolPiet” bwhahahahahahaha!
7 Nov 2009, 13:08 pm
#254 PissAnt: Agreed Pissant. earl made some telling runs and never looked too flapped … unlike Ruaan – what an embarresment. I´m willing to give Rose another go, but thats the problem with him as you say…next game could be a shocker and then we´ll all be baying for him to get on the plane home again eish
7 Nov 2009, 13:10 pm
I know the match did not have anytyhing to do with race but as a black man, I have to be honest, PDV cannot keep making these race consolatory selections. I am for my brothers coming through but there are some talented players, that have been on the radar for a long time but did not get a chance.
Duane Vermuelan should have been in the squad, plus Derrick Kuun deserved a run too.
Ashly Johnson and Deysal were fantastic..
7 Nov 2009, 13:11 pm
next week might be tough again because still more useless sharks to feast my eyes upon.the front-row will definitely be **** and we don’t even need to be discussing this point.kanko is probably the most overrated bok loosie in the last decade,had numerous chances in the past and for god’s sake i don’t know why pdv is still persisting with this clown.
7 Nov 2009, 13:11 pm
Pienaar was rubbish at 10. He should have gone to 15..
7 Nov 2009, 13:11 pm
The other problem is the Boks arrogance
To hardly train as a team , and think we should just rock up and beat anyone is stupid to say the least
One could see the lack of scrummaging training with our front row
There was no cohession , they got split apart a few times
Heinke has not played with any of the other from row , and also has not played for most of the year , not even a warm up game and raw into a bok game ???????
In the driving mauls we were also to upright players like bekker never getting down to help push
SO many driving mauls etc with only a few forwards from us , the rest who knows where
The tigers had their whole pack driving and playing as a unit
so in all honesty , we can blame the players true, but coaching and bad planning was very evident in last nights game
that is besides the fact that a few players in that team should not have been there
7 Nov 2009, 13:12 pm
#265 Tbozknows: At the end of the day Pienaar played with the quality in front of him
A poor scrum, slow ball at breakdowns and poor service from his srummie, so look at it in context
7 Nov 2009, 13:13 pm
#267 JL1: amen i was about to tell him that
the backline got very poor ball on the back foot
and the scrummy gave poor ball ontop of that
7 Nov 2009, 13:14 pm
there is a lot of reason for last night , i have pointed out a few , but there is many more
7 Nov 2009, 13:16 pm
#266 sharks_lover: This Tigers team played against the 3rd and in some cases our 4 and 5th best players
Jannie dup must be 3rd best
Bandise and Chilli are bothe about 7th and 8th best
Guthro is just poor
Danie and Bekker OK
Raubenheimer must be at least 1oth best in SA
Pottie OK
Ashley OK
Heinie must be 4/th best
Pienaar-well not many better flyhalves than him walking about
7 Nov 2009, 13:18 pm
Brutally honest
Send Ruan home….that oke needs to get his head right.
Raubenheimer froze badly.
Guthro….not good enough for an international loosehead
Jannie Dup…should never don the green and gold again…ever…a tighthead that cant scrum is a huge no ..no…
DMuir…..seriously think the Lions gonna rue letting Heyneke Meyer get away…..
Boks….have to get a scrum doctor…..Os or Proudfoot….or Cobus Versagie…..
We have neglected the scrums…..we are in trouble….
Frogs waiting…..
7 Nov 2009, 13:20 pm
#270 JL1:
You weren’t good enough end of story.
7 Nov 2009, 13:20 pm
#241 David: Probably TV wrong then looked heavier then 92, that aside the Cheetas scrum munched every other front row and that applied in the tight phases as well.
When will SA rugby and this nation grow up and start playing the best players. We have seen what happens with ESKOM when people are put in places way out of their depth. How many more failures, governments and expriments does this nation have to go through before we realise that race has little if anything to do with ability to perform.
7 Nov 2009, 13:21 pm
i feel for those loosies…not easy to play when scrum being butchered…..
9 and 10 on a hiding to nothing….
Never knew there was such a thing as a turbo reverse scrum…..Boks against Aussies and Leicester redefined the word retreat at snot spoed….
Appalling….bloody hell…
7 Nov 2009, 13:22 pm
#271 grant10: we need os g10 and the sooner the better.jannie dup to be shot for crimes against humanity.i mean,a th that cant scrum and still getting paid for it is nothing short but a disgrace.
7 Nov 2009, 13:23 pm
#272 NZINCHINA: Thanks for stating the bloody obvious, I am trying to make sense of it and also to blame someone or something
A couple of beers might help
7 Nov 2009, 13:24 pm
Personally i would love to get BJ and CJ e mail so i can write to them….
Dear BJ and CJ
All is forgiven…there is huge kak in bok land….
please come home urgently.
Rassie will make a plan for you at the stormers….
Thanks
7 Nov 2009, 13:25 pm
can’t we find a couple of nursies for jannie dup to keep him extremely busy…day and night.
7 Nov 2009, 13:25 pm
#276 JL1:
Or a keg.
7 Nov 2009, 13:27 pm
#179 WP Till I Die: Wikus Blaauw is a loosehead!
7 Nov 2009, 13:28 pm
To me the following bok team should have been chosen for the conditons up north,
And i know someone like grant will have a dirty thong here after
The way games are officiated up north is not the same as down in the south, also teams dont know about fetching , even Brussow last night would have been unsuccesful as teams up north ruck and maul over the ball and seal it going to ground
15 Kirschner ( should have been F Steyn)
14 JPP
13 Fourie
12 WO
11 Habana
10 M Steyn
09 Dupreez
08 Alberts
07 Deysel
06 Schalk
05 matfield
04 Bakkies
03 Smitty
02 Bismark
01 Beast or Wian Dupreez
16 Strauss
17 Dupreez
18 Roussow
19 brussow
20 Adi
21 Ruan
22 Mapoe
of course had players like BJ been available to play one could have had Smitty to start at 2 and BJ at 3 , with Smitty later on moving to 3 and Bismark coming on from the bench
7 Nov 2009, 13:32 pm
PoepolPiet,
your incisive rugbybrain
stunned the whole rugby world.
Boet, you should be President.
You’re a greater poepol than Zuma
as far as i’m concerned.
Maybe you can pull in Luke Watson,
markgraaf ,strauelli and just take the world
by storm,PoepolPiet.
Like a poep.
All promise and bad aftertaste
but no substance.
You are the strategos unique PoepolPiet
your greatness known from afar.
7 Nov 2009, 13:32 pm
#274 grant10: grant sorry boet but that comment shows me your lack of knowledge about the game
the scrum was always in **** because the loosies were not doing their job
GET IT IN YOUR HEAD MATE 8 PEOPLE SHOULD SHOVE NOT ONLY 3 OR 4
Naas actually gave a good example at half time last night , and ont could see how our locks and loosies were in bad body positions in the scrums
no forward pack would have had a chance last night if the 5 behind them dont scrum too
7 Nov 2009, 13:34 pm
grant look at the total picture boet not only things you want to see
i am not saying the front row was good not at all
7 Nov 2009, 13:34 pm
Nicks boys to claim their first scalp
against PoepolPiets spuitpoepbende.
7 Nov 2009, 13:39 pm
#281 sharks_lover: Let’s just face it our first 15 that won WC and Trinations were an exceptional side with hardly any weakness (an we jsut beat one of the worst the AB teams incidentally) now we have lost two players who are amongst the best in their postions one that can bang in kicks from 65 metres an one that can take the gap anytime.
We do not have replacements of equal ability nor will we find them in the short term so we must realise that NO1 in the workld was a fleeting moment and time to face the hard facts.
The side fielded Friday is not even a developmental side, it is a politically appeasing side that was beaten by a league team without their top 10 players. Now that should bring everyone down to earth and back to reality. Many of the players in the midweek side are good journeymen but not world beating talents, nor will they ever become one. So they got thrashed. More thrashings like that and less players wil want to play for them. Instead of having a look at soem talen we made up a team that appeased Banana Khompela and hs co-horts. That is discgraceful to say the least. But then we are gifted with organisations like SAFA, the PSL and ASA so not much to expect in time to come.
7 Nov 2009, 13:40 pm
Oh bullshit.
The scrum was in trouble cause the front
three consistet of two wannabees
and one hasneverbeen
sent to the pitch by a poepol
and trained by a clublevel trainer.
Its hilarious.
Is that what the great SA has to offer
after 15 years of transformation.
Some lost plonker trying his primary school stuff
having their arses handed to them
by a szecond strings side
the captain ducking off
at the first possibility.
Their coach an absolute
galactical Poepol with a poor me inferiority complex
with the diction and grammar that’ll make a chimp squirm.
As for ruaan pienaar.
Go play marbles boet.
At least gaffie played well
for five minutes.
7 Nov 2009, 13:41 pm
#235 Objective 101: #241 David: That’s because, between the knuckleheads down at Supersport and the dutchies down in Bloem there’s hardly an IQ that breaks three digits. They list WP Nel, on-screen, as 92kg. And no one seems to be able to look at the size of the fella and say, hang on that can’t be right. So when they compare front row weights, the Supersport calculator reckons the Cheetahs come in at around 300kgs – always a good 20 or 30kg lighter than their opponents. The same Cheetahs Supersport stats have Jacque-Louis Potgieter down as 1.98m tall. Which is odd when you see him next to Nico Breedt. Because for two guys who are apprently the same height, the camera sure does play strange tricks on the eye.
7 Nov 2009, 13:41 pm
it’s really a sad day that a bok team has to depend on a shark front row and dodgy loosies like kanko and deysel,ffs this is a povince that was the laughing stock of sa rugby for 100 years
7 Nov 2009, 13:43 pm
Just an idea, but i really think Raubenheimer needs to make the move to number 5, he’s tall enough (1.95m) light enough(99kg) as well as being quick and strong. He has a large ammount of potential – although not at 7 as he is nowhere near physical enough to make a side ahead of the likes of smith, deysel, vermeulen, alberts, potgeiter and louw to name but a few. As far as i can remember his lineout work for the griquas was alright but if he spends a few years as undrerstudy to matfield he should improve exponentially. I think that in him we could find ourselves a long term replacement for Matfield after 2011.
Last night he was nowhere, made a fair few tackles but apart from that was far too quiet.
7 Nov 2009, 13:45 pm
#287 Duiwel: im not really going to comment on stupidity
7 Nov 2009, 13:46 pm
#288 katman: Haha have you ever been into the main hall of Grey Bloem? Many peope there with more than three IQ digits. Great to see the Freestate being able to retain some of its talent.
If Grey kept their players andpassed them on they would as usual beat everyone else.
7 Nov 2009, 13:47 pm
#286 Objective 101: true but there were a lot pf problems last night , really open to see
7 Nov 2009, 13:47 pm
just maybe sa only have 22-25 good players and we all deluding ourselves thinking that we have all these wonderful players like deysel,potgieter,stegman and others who are nothing but super14 players for all the hype. just maybe you only need 22players to win a world cup..just maybe.
7 Nov 2009, 13:48 pm
The sheer genius of PoepolPiet,
have’nt seen a side moer naam weg like that
in years.
Noticed he hasn’t been available for comment.
Or that great captain Chilli.
You bcan run oh greatPoepol
but you can’t hide.
More games to be lost ,boet.
7 Nov 2009, 13:49 pm
#292 Objective 101: decimals don’t count, remember.
7 Nov 2009, 13:52 pm
SL,
great,what a relief.
even better,
you shouldn’t comment at all.
Most of the Sharks on the pitch last night
looked pathetic.
The scrummaging or lack of it was the loosies fault.
Wow,
you should contact Poepolpiet for a job.
You’re just what he is looking for
7 Nov 2009, 13:53 pm
gotta luv the sharks fans….scrum in turbo boost reverse…and they blame everyone except the props…..
None so blind as those that will not see….
Jannie Dup….Fark me man…pap snoek!
Guthro…jelly baby!
J Smit…tele tubbie….
French front row licking there lips….
But blame it on the a bekker…Raubenheimer…anyone but the slapgat,weak kneed.jelly baby so called props….
7 Nov 2009, 13:53 pm
#296 katman: Yep they do not. I am not an ex Grey (can’t spek the crunchie lingo) but have to recognise that as a school they have both brain and brawn. They are unbeatable at most sports and they have a huge number of As so they must be doing something right.
7 Nov 2009, 13:54 pm
then i know nothing about the game??
LOL
I know you get moered in the scrums you in the kak….that i farken know!!!!
7 Nov 2009, 13:57 pm
#298 grant10: and that shark fron-row will be sliding on their back sides next week from cape town to cairo at full speed
7 Nov 2009, 13:57 pm
300. grant10 :
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
7 Nov 2009, 13:58 pm
#281 sharks_lover:
A couple of points you’ve missed. Dickenson is SH ref, so he has no excuses for allowing the carnage that was the breakdown last night.
Martyn Williams has been the best 7 (6) in Britain for the last few years as was Betson for France. Both classic fetchers. Neil Back also provided the Englad pack with that extra dimension that was missing, even though Woodward tried his best to ignore it.
7 Nov 2009, 14:00 pm
I see we are caning smittie and he hasn’t even left sa yet…embraboer really ….
7 Nov 2009, 14:01 pm
#301 Valkyrie: and in next years super 14! Then they cry me a farken river….what happened? Why is kanko sa kak…Jaque Botes is poor…locks cant scrum….
But mention there kak front row and they go all defensive….yippee for beast and smitty…best props…!
Fark me …best in reverse gear yes!!
7 Nov 2009, 14:04 pm
#304 gunther: not caning smittie at 2 though….its blind fools that think international tightheads can sommer just be converted!!
Bunch of brainless morons….this is not chess man….
Even italians gonna moer us…watch!
7 Nov 2009, 14:08 pm
When Big Hiit says scrums are secondary….you think he means it?
When Deans and Henry say what a great opensider schalk is you think they mean it?
They lull us into a fools paradise….a great scrummaging tighthead and fetcher are simply non negotiables….yes…we got away with it for a while…..
But the bubble bursting….
We need to respect the scrums as a hugely critical part of the game….we havent….
And we will pay the price.
7 Nov 2009, 14:08 pm
#300 grant10: very funny boys we have on keo.las night i just gave credit to earl rose’s,and i am not a big fan of his, last two games in the currie cup and last night’s game then sodajoe got a hissy-fit accusing me of not knowing anything about rugby.if you don’t agree with these boys then you are always an idiot,it’s only their opinions that counts.
7 Nov 2009, 14:10 pm
#267 JL1: pienaar’s shoddy tactical kicking had nothing do with a reversing scrum, liecester’s first try came from a k@k kick by him straight to the winger when there was acres of spaces either side of ambrosini, that exposed our backline to a counter-attack! His crappy option taking was just nonsensical boet, stop making excuses!
#263 Tbozknows: oh here we go again with this tbozknowz apologist! Have you heard anyone apologising here on behalf of any race for the **** ups of jannie du plessis, ruan & others? you are black, fine. You support the springboks, fine. But please don’t come here and apologise for being black, grow some balls man! Ffs
have you ever heard anyone apologising for being white when the springboks got pomped 49-0?
I’ve said this to you before, sort out your inferiority complex mate! Do it.
7 Nov 2009, 14:10 pm
#308 Valkyrie: I always MAKE mine count (Opinion that is) LOL
7 Nov 2009, 14:15 pm
I have a problem with this excuse that black players do not make it because of the lack of opportunities at school level blah, blah, blah. The fact is that a very small percentage of rugby players (including whites) actually have the opportunity to go to the so-called super rugby schools. It`s true that these schools do provide the bulk of players for Craven Week and that many others lose out because they are not in the “right schools.” This should however not deter a good rugby player from following his dream after school. The player with the necessary qualities and determination will make his way through the club system and make it to the top level notwithstanding his background. If you are good enough, you will eventually make it.
7 Nov 2009, 14:15 pm
#309 Transformation: lol.dont be so hard on tboz
7 Nov 2009, 14:16 pm
#308 Valkyrie: Truth is Earl was bloody good last nite…and personally i would play him at 10 before the sulking fruit cake that is Ruan Pienaar….he so patently doesent want the 10 jersey!!
PDV needs to leave him be at 9….
And the okes are too sentimental…like little ladies with wet brookies …dont ever mention scrums….its not importane…as long as we win its fine to turbo reverse….
Kak man…fix the bloody problem …before we get our arses kicked in a quarter final of WC….then watch how these gutless morons turn on J Smit and PDV!!
7 Nov 2009, 14:17 pm
The waves will still break on the beaches tomorrow.
7 Nov 2009, 14:19 pm
#311 Springbokvel: They will make it unless the system has ceiling and categorises people… and when those who make critical choices do it with their racist baggage
7 Nov 2009, 14:21 pm
These same J Smit supporters will cut the oke to pieces if we fail at WC 2011…WATCH!
He needs to play from bench…or retire…
Jannie dup…forget …its over
Guthro…same…cant scrum…out of the team…
Dont choose players if they cant perform there primary functions….
Ruan at 10…do me a favour!!! Forget!
Man we better grow some balls….this little boetie club gonna fark us up….PDV …Take control now…cut the deadwood….once and for all!
7 Nov 2009, 14:22 pm
problem starts and ends up front. Fix that and everything else would come together. We now staring a similar situation unfolding in the A Team. Who is going to pack down at Th and Lh against France Js and Beast or Gurthro with Jannie and Heinke in the wings. So expect more of the same.
Potgieter, Raubenheimer, Johnson, Adams, Pienaar, WO, De Jongh, Nokwe and Rose were all undone because front 5 could not cut it. Simple as that.
Basic problem is fix the front row and make necessary adjustments behind but front row is where the malaise starts and ends.
I’m not ready to chuck out the experimentation I think its necessary except you have to start with a formidable platform which is a front 5 that can stand their ground in any situation. Our 1st 15 going to come up against the identical problem with Js and Beast and Gurthro packing down up front.
These are the players that could or should represent the team as the back up 2nd stringers and many played last night except behind a front row that was annihilated. Simple solution fix the front 3 and the rest fix themselves
W. Du Preez / W. Blaauw / H. Vd Merwe
Liebenberg / Maku / Strauss
WP Nel / Buys
Breedt / Van Zyl / Roussouw
Bekker / Hargreaves
Potgieter / louw
Deysel / Raubenheimer
Vermeulen / Alberts
Adams / Pretorius
J.L. Potgieter / Grant / Pienaar
Le Grange / WO
De Jongh / Jacobs
Nokwe / Basson
Mapoe / Juries
Viljoen / Rose
Still persevere with development get new players in but do it off a solid fundamental foundation of strongest front 5.
7 Nov 2009, 14:23 pm
#314 cane: lol.i mean we can only take the example of nz,not winning a world cup in over 20 years but the country is still standing and considerd to be the safest and best to live in according to the united nations.
7 Nov 2009, 14:26 pm
Got to go … no slandering me while I am away… c u later
7 Nov 2009, 14:26 pm
How we let all our props go overseas i dont know….bloody disgrace….
Beast will also need to up his scrumming ability….or he can go with big boet smitty!!
Those frogs gonna go at that pap snoek Bok front row like salivating Rottweilers….best our boys be training…or the kak coming …again…
Of course i hear the excuses already…boys are tired….half injured…locks arent helping in scrums….Kanko too light….
Never the slap gat props fault in SA….they immune from criticism….
Poor Kirchner probably be blamed for kak scrum next!
7 Nov 2009, 14:27 pm
Oh Poepolpiet,
italy loves you.
Maybe we all wrong and
poepolpiet has taken a europeen bung.
That explains the selection.
The Poepolpiet’s retirement fund XV .
7 Nov 2009, 14:27 pm
grant i think even people that are not on the blog have heard your cries about the scrum now, is there anything you picked up about the game my dear friend? I don’t want you to come across as a whiner. You’ve made you point absolutely clear.
What did you think of our loosies @ the breakdown? Did dewalt impress you?
7 Nov 2009, 14:29 pm
#315 Langenhoven:
Sad if true. Can`t really see an outstanding player losing out if he plays for a top premier club. Maybe they should chose their clubs better.
7 Nov 2009, 14:32 pm
Skopskiet,
******,i thought you would’ve cut your wrists
by now.
So how is your adopted country
dealing with their choking problem ,boet?
The ones who come into my shop
leave as soon as i utter choke or world cup.
7 Nov 2009, 14:33 pm
#317 skopskiet: exactly skop….everyone being blamed except the front 5 …thats where the kak is….big time…been saying this since day 1 this year,,,,but victories plaster over the cracks….and the blind dont actually want to see!
7 Nov 2009, 14:34 pm
Oh dear. Well I know that Div had pressure to select a few POC on this tour, hence the 37 man squad. Must be hard to please 2 masters.
If anything, last night proves that it’s not about colour only, it’s about very odd selections.
Pienaar continued his downward spiral, he is self-destructing at every turn. Clearly he isn’t a 10, and the fact the the brains trust at Bok HQ thinks he is a worry. Chilli, well he’s useless isn’t he?
Where is Kuun? The poor guy is a legend compared to the Chillydog.
Ashley J stood up last night, good to see that! Jannie Dup is as soft as he’s ever been and the other Hooker, well a joke. I’m surprised Johnson didn’t get moved to cover hooker. Backs never got the ball so hard to comment on them. For once Rose did something good and then disappeared and continued to play out of position. Danie Roussouw is weak at scrum time, like Bekker.
All in all the ‘tight’ 5 were an absolute joke. Thing is, the Boks tight has been getting worse and worse for some time, perhaps it’s a combo of the wrong players (Smit included) and Gary Glitter the worst forwards coach in the history of SA rugby.
Div can hide behind **** on this one, fair enough, **** is about as useless a coach as you could ever want anyway, but really, they are all to blame.
The sad thing is, there are about 200 players in SA better than the lot of em last night, some I saw playing this morning for the DPHS under 11 team.
7 Nov 2009, 14:34 pm
i want to look at this very objectively from shark supporters point of view.who do we blame for the scrums?after the current front-row we have bakkies,matfield,smit,burger,spies and recently brussouw packing behind them and now we are talking about the best and meanest locks and loosies in the sa game and in the majority of the games that i have watched the bok scrum was piss-poor seriously going backwards at times.shark supporters wants us to believe that you need all eight to push in a forward direction but how is that possible when the front-row is transformed into marshmallows and getting their necks twisted in all directions.?
7 Nov 2009, 14:37 pm
#322 Transformation: how the hell can the loosies withstand anything in turbo reverse??
Thats the issue…others harhly judged….but what the hell can they actually do if platform is so poor!!!!
Fark me i get so frustrated transie…but okay…will tone it down…these okes like SL and Ratel Brussow make me woes boet…blame everyone except the piss poor props…sorry o am carrying on…but this is a crsis and i saw it coming and it is pissing me off!
7 Nov 2009, 14:39 pm
**** Muir is a b-club coach.
Poepolpiet is not even that.
Without the hardebaarde to tell
him what to do,
he is lost.
How do you want anyone to win off that.
7 Nov 2009, 14:39 pm
#326 goyougoodthing2: LOL
7 Nov 2009, 14:40 pm
dag se Duiwel
Ek sien jy het die koel al klaar in die geweer gelaai en gemik op De Villiers se kop.
Die probleempie rus met die voorry.
Skop daai swak Sharks en Bulle se stutte se gatte uit die span uit en dan staan ons n kans.
7 Nov 2009, 14:42 pm
#329 Duiwel: yep
7 Nov 2009, 14:43 pm
As for Piennar ,
wow,
its a toss-up between him and gaffie
who has got the quicker confidence-drain
after the anthem.
haven’t seen courage dissapear like that
since the germans occupied France.
No i lie,
when SA got dicked by Lesotho.
7 Nov 2009, 14:44 pm
the only time u see tacticus on this site is wen the boks lose
7 Nov 2009, 14:44 pm
hoesit Duiwel. Which adopted country you speaking of? I gone nowhere, right here still watching the ships roll in and watch em roll away again, sitting on the dock of my bay watching the tide roll away.
7 Nov 2009, 14:45 pm
With all the whining about “quotas” etc, what most people are missing is that, apart from Maku, this tight 5 is made up of the regular locks and props that have been in the squad as bench backups for the last couple of years, and they were the ones that got monstered.
Thst’s the really scary bit.
7 Nov 2009, 14:46 pm
off to watch the aussies and poms…at least those okes can scrum.
Outta here
7 Nov 2009, 14:47 pm
ruan can only count to 9….when he gets to 10…he has an anxiety attack.
7 Nov 2009, 14:51 pm
I looked forward to this game for weeks and the Bok ‘B’ team
served up garbage.
This ‘B’ team is an affirmitave action team
Adams is hopeless
Sillyboy Rapelle can’t make it through the first 10 minutes,
the poor chap was born injured
The other clowns in the front row were pathetic.
The selectors are a joke and the joke is on us
7 Nov 2009, 14:51 pm
SS,
man ek dink die probleem is dieper.
Ons hele stelsel is onstabiel.
Ons voorry is hondkak.
Grant10 is reg,
dis n probleem since oom os se dae
en die 123 manne skiet almal oorsee.
Jannie is n klein club speler,
die anner is nie eers daar nie.
Chilli is n marketing prop.
Poepolpiet is n marketing prop.
**** muir is n b-club coached
picked because he winds the political lobby
up less tan the valies.
So good news?
Ja,if Nicks boys want a scalp
its there for the taking.
I believe Poepolpiet had earned the right
to make his call
based on results.
Now its time to pay the devil ,boet.
7 Nov 2009, 14:53 pm
i still dont understand how the 2nd and 3rd choice bulls hookers found themselves in bok jerseys its hilarious
7 Nov 2009, 14:54 pm
Soory SS,
crossed wires,
thought you relocated to Aus.
my mistake.
7 Nov 2009, 14:54 pm
#298 grant10: yes grant thats because you do not look at the whole picture , like i said boet selectinve readin and watching is not good
open both eyes ,
7 Nov 2009, 14:55 pm
and Ruuan Pienaar is the most overrated rugby player
in the history of South Africa but PV loves him
7 Nov 2009, 14:57 pm
the big question is ,is the 1st team bok backline going to struggle like the dirt tracker ?its bad enough we got adi at 12 ,he doesnt have the defence of JDv or WO and he’ll have tht irish hero BOd running at him all day
7 Nov 2009, 14:57 pm
they f’ak’d up Pienaar’s head collectively between them they F’ak’d him up bad. Poor sod to come back now and fix that disillusioned head of his up will take a mammoth task of undoing and re programming. He’s nowhere bad as a fly half, could have been great but I been warning that they creating another Gaffie du Toit out of him, and so they have.
**** Muir is a doos. He should go to G Lions and stay there. Get a proper back line coach and a proper front row man like Os or Proudfoot or Visagie in and get rid of these designer type coaches like Gold and Muir. Collectively they are f.ng things up beyond repair.
7 Nov 2009, 15:00 pm
#346 skopskiet: amen to that….i remember you said they gonna ruin Ruan…now they done it skop….the oke may never recover…
7 Nov 2009, 15:00 pm
#345 mbaxman93: dont worry about adi…worry about that kak scrum!
7 Nov 2009, 15:01 pm
The Bok side chooses itself, PVD was born lucky.
Right colour at the right time.
Fate had to intervene against the Lions with back
to back injuries to get Brussow on the field.
Fate had to intervene to get Steyn in the side
after 2010 who is gonna switch off the lights?
7 Nov 2009, 15:03 pm
based on the form of last night’s performance only, the reserve list against France should look like a bit like this:
16: Maku (chilli’s injury pending)
17 Du Plessis (although uncontested scrums would be a safer bet)
18: Bekker (rossouw subbed early, but will probably be included to help the front row, maybe even subbing victor)
19: Johnson (took his opportunity, and a ball carrier will be needed with Kankowski and Brussouw starting)
20: Hougard (although probably pienaar covering 9&10)
21: Olivier
22: Rose (best performer of back 3)
7 Nov 2009, 15:03 pm
#328 grant10: come on boet…how may scrum were there in the game? I’m talking about loose forward play, you know – cleaning rucks, linking plays, protecting the ball carrier, defending channels – not all of that is related to a back pedalling scrum, yes the scru, affects the momentum of the team, but basics are still basics.
Anyway enjoy the aussie & pom rugga
7 Nov 2009, 15:07 pm
Bekker is a great lock, he is awesome
7 Nov 2009, 15:09 pm
#352 Boksarenumber1: maybe he should play sevens….
7 Nov 2009, 15:14 pm
#350 ali: johnson is a major revelation we’ll definately need him if kanko decides to have a day off and hang around in the backline
i’ll reserve judgment on the pearl until the second game he plays but for now he’s looking good ,suprisingsly
7 Nov 2009, 15:16 pm
You still selling state of the art mountain bike machines up in the Alps and trout fishing in the quiet lakes and rivers of Austria and Switzerland Duiwel?
De Villiers surrounded himself with the wrong people. His philosophy may have born some fruit if he’d have picked the right people to be his support. Muir will stab Pdv in the back first chance he gets because Muir himself is on a glory road of self preservation much like his mentor before him. Gary Glitter don’t have the hard nosed bottom line grit to make the correct calls up front either. They going to take John Smit’s famous legacy and whip him all the way to Calgary with it.
Somebody going to have to make some big brave calls very soon if they want to rate their glorified credibility.
Smit must give way to WP Nel or Buys
Pick the next best hooker after Bismark, Liebenberg, Strauss and then Maku
W. Du Preez and W. Blaauw to prop at LH way ahead of Beast or Steenkamp
Then we stand a chance.
Continue on this road to destabilization with these fancy motions that you don’t need top rate front row props and that mobility and leadership counts more than fundamental front row power at our own peril. Chickens are on their way home to roost and they coming home fast now. Rather sooner than later.
7 Nov 2009, 15:19 pm
#354 mbaxman93: i was very surprised with johnson’s speed and subsequent pressure on the tiger halfbacks. i assumed that his mooted change to hooker may have been due to lack of pace as well as height, but it seems only to have been the latter.
he may not be a lineout option, but his low centre of gravity could come useful at the back of the scrum, especially if its going backwards.
ditto on rose. his positional play was at times suspect, but since both him and pienaar are confidence players, and rose seems to be higher on confidence, rose has to be backup fullback option.
7 Nov 2009, 15:22 pm
What was the score?
7 Nov 2009, 15:24 pm
#355 skopskiet: gary gold is a defensive and breakdown specialist, and very good in this respect. we still need a scrumm specialist though.
Muir’s intended backline vision just doesn’t stick with the adopted/intended structuralist gameplan.
quite interesting that Div picked two english-speaking assistants though.
7 Nov 2009, 15:36 pm
#351 Transformation: Exactly transie there were many factors
and that all lead to dissaster
nnone is saying the front row was good , but they are not as one man team and the loose forwards i agree with you did not do their job well either
7 Nov 2009, 15:40 pm
and now im chomping a nice pepermint magnum yummyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
7 Nov 2009, 15:49 pm
359 SL
front row set the stage for the disaster that was where the game was lost. The others followed suit but in first 15 min the bok team were looking ok till the front row wheels started coming off. Dickenson helped little by blowing the break down totally in Tiger’s favor and giving them the momentum in the loose.
Everybody jumping on Pdv’s back for picking Rose Nokwe Raubenheimer Adams De Jongh Viljoen and Hargreaves but the real issue is not with those selections. Look at the main culprits of the disaster. All seasoned Wc winning springbok’s Du Plessis, Steenkamp, Ralepelle, Roussouw, Pienaar and Ndungane.
Those were the players out their depth, not the new ones or the quotas just drafted.
7 Nov 2009, 15:54 pm
and the 1st team going to come up against exactly the same pitfalls if the front row problem is not addressed and quickly. Better wake up now before it gets any later than it already is.
7 Nov 2009, 16:10 pm
#351 Transformation:
Come on guys, here it is all you Dewald Potgieter bashers. I have just sat through ther game again and here are his stats:
tackles made 14
own ball won ex rucks and mauls 14
cleans at breakdown 7
own lineouts won 2
carries 6
turn overs won 5
Own ball sealed off 11
Opposition lineouts contested 4
Supportplay during drives 10
pass 1
If this is a guy that has underperformed then I need to overdose on viagra
7 Nov 2009, 16:19 pm
#354 mbaxman93: so much for all the haters labeling him as a quota during the week
7 Nov 2009, 16:21 pm
#355 skopskiet: now u’re sounding like grant10
if smit out, who’ll skipper?
7 Nov 2009, 16:24 pm
#357 chch – welcome back Laulala: dude u r so whack!
7 Nov 2009, 16:28 pm
#363 catleya:
That’s very interesting, and thanks for taking the time to post the stats here. Sharks Lover seems to have been watching a different game.
7 Nov 2009, 16:28 pm
#361 skopskiet: Thank you
i watched the game over and its soo disappointing how those guys didnt hold it together or show desire or energy throughout the whole game
especially russouw
this yr he’s done well for bulls but whenver he’s put on that bok jersey its been very disappointing
some of the okes here have too much “quota” blinkers on to pick this up
when POC performs badly they string out the word Quota, otherwise its simply, played badly
either way, cheetahs or province front row should’ve been playing, end of story!!!
7 Nov 2009, 16:30 pm
#363 catleya: very impressive stats wise
i wonder how many other players had good stats?
as a team these guys were NOWHERE & were a real disgrace though
7 Nov 2009, 16:37 pm
#362 skopskiet: Skop the old timers were abysmal but so were Rose and Raubenheimer. Neither are players that on merit would make a S14 side so they can only have been selected for other reasons. Ditto with Maku and Adams who has picked up a masty little habit of pushing the ball down before he passes. I would have liked to have seen Mampoe but for reasons unbeknown to most of us he was not selected. Ditto for Wiaan du Preez and WP Nel.
As for scrumming Gary Gold could not coach a school side let alone our forwards. After the Lions someone should have realised we would be caught short. Anyway I think our golden era has come and gone and as much as we like to hold on to old tired legs rather than finding fresh new ones we will go back to nos 5 or 6 in the world. I found it unbeliebable that Brussow was not going to be picked for the starting 15 until Spies was injured.
7 Nov 2009, 16:48 pm
I can’t fault us saffas passion, but some of the reactions here are way over the top. Yes there may be the odd qouta selection, but as others have pointed out Jannie is a White oke and out of his depth.
I feel relatively sanguine about it all though. The Italian prop is one of the best scrummagers in the modern game, many of our players stepped off the plane two days before, and it’s our end of season.
In the end, what sunk is was the scrums. And it’s time for us to start valueing that part of the game again.
Div has shown that he reacts quickly to mistakes – unlike mr stubborn Jake. Better it happens now. We’ll be better for it.
7 Nov 2009, 16:51 pm
#367 David: Yes, he watched it with Rayel Brussow and some mates on a black and white tv with a permanent test pattern which forces you to imagine what happened.
#369 Papoose: True, but for the most the guys didn’t play as a team. They let the momentum of the Tigers overcome them.
Sad, but I have the feeling that if there was another five minutes we would have pulled it off, and then most sins would have been forgiven.
7 Nov 2009, 17:06 pm
Ja-ja SS,
the SantaCruZ DRIVER V8.
Bust the Norco Atomic in half.
Split the atom in 9 months.
Next is the SantaCruz driver V8.
It was a tough call
the Nicolai Ion ST looks good.
Rides like fire.
Caugt some Three kilo bogie on a sedge
three days ago.
Good moment.
Had her for dinner for three days
table of five.
7 Nov 2009, 17:11 pm
In Fact that Rainbow trout had,
just before i brought the priest down,
that same uncomprehending,
downrightdumbasmydick-stupid look
old Poepolpiet sports every day.
7 Nov 2009, 17:20 pm
#363 catleya: catleya pottie 5 turn overs??
what you been smoking mate??
we only won 2 turn overs all night which happened in the first 10 min of the game
its not about potgieter bashing
go watch with unbiased eyes and watch all of his play
you will also see him lose a ball in the rucks , just like deysel lost one and rossouw 2
7 Nov 2009, 17:37 pm
#370 Objective how can you say Rose was abysmal? He gets a lot of stick, some deserved. But he didn’t play badly and was one of the few backs who showed any imagination last night, he did get caught out of position a couple of times though
7 Nov 2009, 18:17 pm
#370 Objective 101: how can say rose was bad when he set up the only try w scored ofthe nigt ,he was far better than any 1 could have expected and out of all the backs looked possbley the best -potgieter imo was very ordinary ,trid hard but had very litle efect -deysel and johnson where the only forwards worth a mention-potgieter overated,just to small #363 catleya: turnverswon ?5 no ways man never !thats rubish we had no possesion -5 turn overs lol ,maybe ure being biast -when they had a knock on and he picked it up ,that doesnt count ey
7 Nov 2009, 18:21 pm
#375 sharks_lover: Yes, 5 times he secured ball at a ruck/maul/scrum/lineout/spilt ball situation which had been in the other team’s possession untill then, so I guess you missed some.
And yes Pottie lost one ball he took into a ruck, but so did Danie (2) and Deysel(2, not one.) And Pottie missed one tackle where there was obstruction from a scrum by the Tigers flanker, resulting in the scrummy making good ground, but that was due to obstruction. and then there was one instance where the Tigers win ger stepped inside some four meters before the tackle , so he was cut off from his outside support and forced inside by Pottie where the support on the inside tackled him. So technically it was not a missed tackle.
My friend, you will never sell Deysel to me as a 7 flanker for the Boks. Go look at Rugby 365. I am not the only one who sees what it see. Let’s rather agree to disagree and leave it be on this note. Maybe you should explain why the Sharks have put feelers out to him long before the Alberts option came up.
7 Nov 2009, 19:13 pm
what does / did **** Muir do? Can someone show me the value he brings as a bok backline coach?
Unless he does defence as well, he provide sweet F all on attack. Last 5 minutes, the players did not even have the guts or confidence to send the ball wide. That is as shameful as the scruming effort. It might even be worse because at least you can hold your hand up & say well done Castro Giavani.
7 Nov 2009, 20:08 pm
What? Not Luke Watson?
7 Nov 2009, 21:05 pm
PDV is succumbing to pressure from higher authorities, to put more players of colour in the Bok team. The thing is though, he not being as vocal against it as Jake White was!
On the other hand, the Bok midweek team were terrible last night. The talent was there, but the players never showed up. So I think PDV should not be solely to blame for last night. Steenkamp, Jannie, Rossouw, PIENAAR… all seasoned Bok players had poor games.
I think Chilliboy should spend a year out of the Bok fold, and Maku to move to the Lions, then possibly it could be seen whether they really are potentially international class. Raubenheimer was a victim of a lack of transformation in the junior levels. An excellent prospect as a junior, he has taken a worse dive than Chilliboy at senior level. Because there is such little transformation in the period between junior level rugby and senior level rugby, we are seeing PDV having to enforce it within the Springboks! Things much change in this respect in SA rugby!
7 Nov 2009, 21:39 pm
i have one last post regarding this game. if we look back on some of the great tours of the UK and Ireland in the past, such as the grand slam winning Aussies in 1984 and the All Blacks in 1978, you will notice that they too lost to club sides. does this make them “a disgrace?” in fact, the Aussie side of 1984 is recongnised as one of the best ever. yet they lost 4 (count em) games to club sides… so lets stop being pathetic and using this as a platform to attack PDV who thus far this year has not let us down in the international area. post over.
7 Nov 2009, 22:31 pm
#364 Papoose: Really? Can’t remember anyone labeling Johnson a ‘quota’ player!
As I (and most other) predicted, the front row was pathetic. Cheetahs destroyed both Sharks and Bulls front row… and Jannie is 2nd choice over there! Both of them should never have left the prop factory (FS)… their skills have dropped to something laughable!
Wian’s on his way to Europe already… make the call, and get WP Nel there as well, and a true captain in Adrian Strauss.
8 Nov 2009, 07:25 am
far too many quotass
Yes. Scrum absolute DISGRACE.
8 Nov 2009, 07:55 am
This Grant Balls guy is talking testacles. After one experimental tour match he says -”PdV & **** are slowly but surely ruining what was once a promising career” The guy just delivered the B&I lions series, Trinations (including an All Black whitewash) and number 1 ranking in the world… Hello. Grant Balls has the memory of a Goldfish and PdV is our Fort Knox. Anyone for more humble pie…?
8 Nov 2009, 11:31 am
Dont forget Jake lost Tour matches left right & centre before lifting a World Cup. I too had my doubts about Peter but the man deliverd. So no complaints from me…
8 Nov 2009, 16:53 pm
Bemoan the lack of practise and game time together, but the Dirttrackers that played friday night were a disgrace to the Springbok Jersey! If the Barbarians, who are a bunch of internationals who dont all speak the same language, can gel in a week why cant our “future” Springboks? Its a lack of talent and the incorrect selections… Shame on PDiv, **** and teh rest of the “Merit” Selection team….
9 Nov 2009, 00:40 am
385. Rayno
You are right,he did achieve that,but it would have been a crying shame if he hadn’t.He after all inherited the World Champions.
The fact is that he has not put a decent team on the park based solely on his and his co-selectors selection.
9 Nov 2009, 07:15 am
Was it not **** Muir who coached this midweek team??
Why is Div responsible??
Where were all the experienced players??
Wynand, Gurthro, Pienaar, Rossouw??
Why blame the players of colour if 90% of the team didn’t perform???
9 Nov 2009, 07:16 am
#384 greatest13gerber:
I agree!!
Wynand Olivier should never represent the Boks again!!!
9 Nov 2009, 08:10 am
well smit needs to be on the field and he was a brilliant hooker until they moved him, if he cant play all 80 mins let him come on in the 2nd half, the problem is that we dont have another player with experience who is a quality captain, matfield is leaving same time as smit and even he isn’t that gr8 we need to find a leader who is a quality player and leader we need to start looking at our loosies in sa as they make the best captains as they’re always at the font of the battle
9 Nov 2009, 08:56 am
So John Smit says that 90% of criticism (especially the media)against PDV is coz of racists who cant except that a black coach knows more than a white one…
Any comments? Keo?
And that Luke Watson was a cancer within the Springboks…
hmmmmm…
9 Nov 2009, 13:04 pm
Ashley Johnson played well in other areas, but his performance (along with the flankers) during scrums was pitiful… that the locks and props didn’t give them a wake-up ‘klap’ and told them to scrum was a miracle! It was 5 vs 8 the whole time!!!
13 Nov 2009, 09:15 am
#388 Brentie1: No buts Brentie, and no crying shame if he hadn’t because he did.
On SuperRugby it was confirmed (not that we never knew) that Jake inherited his Springboks from Peter who was u21 coach at the time.
All Peter is doing is getting his old squad back.
In today’s Cape Times 13.11.09 John Smit: “Sadly, if you strip a lot of the criticism bare about Peter, you’ll find its racist. Unfortunately the old-school mentality that a black coach cant possibly be better than a white coach still lingers.”
The Springbok captain is basically labelling you all racists (not that we never knew) I guess we can expect calls for John Smit to be stripped from the captaincy and dropped from the team. So sad.
Peter’s got nothing to prove. He’s the best Bok coach our generation has seen.
Accept it and enjoy the success Peter has bestowed upon us…!
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