PdV to blame for Leicester disgrace
7 Nov 2009
Peter de Villiers must take responsibility for his poor selections and the embarrassment that followed in Leicester on Friday.
It’s all good and well lauding De Villiers when his first-choice side steamroll opponents, but now when an opportunity presents itself to mould an inexperienced group, he and his fellow coaching staff looked out of their depth.
The Springbok ‘second-choice’ XV were annihilated by a club side without at least 16 of their regulars, also not helping their synergy. The Bok coaching staff will point to the lack of preparation time, but in that situation the common sense option is to pick combinations at provincial level. De Villiers ignored this, and the result was a disorganised showing in all facets that led to the South Africans being out-muscled.
While De Villiers stated this tour was about gauging his next best, his refusal to pick form players from the Currie Cup has now left him with more questions than answers.
This team were led out to be exposed by stupid selections and from numbers 1 to 22 there are few success stories from Welford Road.
De Villiers stated in the latest issue of SA Rugby magazine how his technical knowledge of the scrum is the best in the Bok camp. But if that was the case, he would’ve known before this match that Gurthro Steenkamp would’ve repeatedly unbound and taken his head out of the scrum, resulting in penalty after penalty. Instead of choosing Wian du Preez – who is now heading to Munster – and the rest of the Cheetahs front-row as a unit, they were all watching this debacle on TV.
That Chiliboy Ralepelle – the Bulls’ second-choice hooker – had the opportunity to lead his country after not being fit to take part in a Currie Cup final six days earlier is ludicrous. It wasn’t surprising he limped off after 20 minutes, and he should be on the next plane home. Jannie du Plessis’ days in the Bok set-up should also be numbered as he failed to produce any leadership or grunt required. How Heinke van der Merwe was suppose to perform after not playing in six months is a mystery, and one shudders at the thought of him having to play tighthead on this tour.
Danie Rossouw was a frustrated figure with the lack of leadership, and while he tried all night, it wasn’t enough. Andries Bekker also toiled throughout, but in a disorganised side, it was very difficult. That the Sharks’ fourth-choice lock Alistair Hargreaves came on to try and resurrect matters said it all. Even against 20-year-old rookies, Hargreaves was out of his depth and he would have benefited more from an Isaac Ross-course in bulking up over the summer.
Ashley Johnson and Jean Deysel were the standout loosies, but how Davon Raubenheimer was considered ahead of Duane Vermeulen, Francois Louw and Willem Alberts is beyond me.
Heini Adams, another who can’t start for his province, struggled behind a pack being shunted around. His tactical kicking was woeful, and Sarel Pretorius would’ve been a better option.
Ruan Pienaar did nothing to show he is anything close to an international flyhalf. Worst of all was his temperament, panicked decisions characterising his play. But what can you expect when the last time he played in the 10 jersey was on 25 July? De Villiers and Dick Muir’s obsession with versatility over specialists seems to be slowly but surely ruining what was a promising career.
Wynand Olivier, Juan de Jongh, Jongi Nokwe and Earl Rose all soldiered on with little quality ball, but Odwa Ndungane delivered a disinterested performance. Ndungane’s final minute knock-on capped off why Lionel Mapoe should have been in his place on tour.
The technical short-comings, especially at the breakdown, were disappointing, but what was even more worrying was the lack of commitment and desperation shown by some in a Bok jersey.
Victories over Ireland and France were the main aims of this tour, but just as important was judging the depth of South African rugby. De Villiers should now realise that the out-of-form third-tier players who weren’t good enough before, still aren’t good enough. What a waste of an opportunity to ignore those who deserved a chance to tour.
Leicester now have the Bok scalp as theirs. However, records won’t state it was a woeful Bok side, many of whom shouldn’t have been there. For that, De Villiers and his selectors must take the blame.
By Grant Ball
394 Comments
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7 Nov 2009, 08:00 am
#48 Bentoshi: With sincere respect, I think your lenses are largely distorting reality. This is from the past, not the present.
7 Nov 2009, 08:05 am
Wonder how smart both the passengers and those carrying them are feeling today… thanks to the ‘brains trust’… about as smart as Julius Malema!
7 Nov 2009, 08:05 am
#48 Bentoshi:
I dont believe you are right sorry
Change will happen naturally.
Dont force it
There are plenty of great black wings, and some backs at springbok level.
Not many forwards. But this will happen
Yes the development and transformation needs to happen at school level, maybe faster, but not at the springbok level.
Just my opinion like it or not I respect yours
7 Nov 2009, 08:06 am
Sglazer: If this was true should there be so much more players of colour in the provincial teams and even national but their isn’t. So what is preventing players of colour getting into the team. Lack of talent, NO. Lack of potential, NO!!!. Lack of opportunity?? Please tell me why they not their??
7 Nov 2009, 08:06 am
Just imagine if this was our 1st IV
*Note I have only selected overseas based players that deserve to be there. I have also not selected older players on the bench as i believe we need to look to the future now.
It’s no point having older players on the bench eg. Danie Rossouw, Jannie, Jacobs. We need to allow the younger players to gain experience and learn at the same time from the old heads like Matfield, Bakkies, Smit, Juan, Du Preez and De Villiers.
* Overseas based
+ Injured
1.Tendai “Beast” Mtawarira
2.John Smit (c)
3.CJ van der Linde*
4.Bakkies Botha
5.Victor Matfield (v/c)
6.Heinrich Brussow
7.Juan Smith + / Schalk Burger
8.Pierre Spies + / Ryan Kankowski
9.Fourie du Preez
10.Morne Steyn
11.Bryan Habana
12.Jean de Villiers*
13.Jaque Fourie
14.JP Pietersen
15.Frans Steyn*
And this was our Springbok IV Team that played Leicester.
# 1st IV Bench
1.Heinke van der Merwe
2.Bismarck du Plessis#
3.Brian Mujati*#
4.Gerhard Mostert + / Juandre Kruger*
5.Andries Bekker#
6.Luke Watson* (c)
7.Jean Deysel
8.Duanne Vermeulen#
9.Ruan Pienaar#
10.Peter Grant# (v/c)
11.Alwyn Hollenbach
12.Brad Bariitt*
13.Waylon Murray
14.Lionel Mapoe
15.Zane Kirchner#
16.Adriaan Strauss
17.WP Nel
18.Flip van der Merwe
19.Francois Louw
20.Rory Kockott
21.Wynand Olivier
22.Louis Ludik + / Earl Rose
Player on standby incase of injuries
1.Coenie Oosthuizen / Wikus Blaauw
2.Craig Burden / Chiliboy Ralepelle + / Richardt Strauss
3.Patric Cilliers / Kevin Buys
4.Francois van der Merwe* / Steven Sykes
5.Cliff Milton* / Alistair Hargreaves
6.Keegan Daniel / Deon Stegmann
7.Hilton Lobberts / Dewald Potgieter
8.Willem Alberts / Ashley Johnson
9.Francois Hougaard / Jano Vermaak + / Paul Delport
10.Burton Francis / Francois Brummer
11+14.Gerhard van den Heever / Tonderai Chavhanga+ /JW Jonker
12.Robert Ebersohn / Stefan Watermeyer
13.Juan de Jongh / Ronnie Cooke*
15.Joe Pietersen / Hennie Daniller
What do you fellow bloggers think? let me know?
7 Nov 2009, 08:06 am
Last night’s result is proof once again that PdV is riding the coat-tails of the WC-winning team he inherited. Whenever he has to put together a team himself (last night and the 3rd Lions test), he fails miserably. The man is clueless when it comes to measuring a player’s ability.
7 Nov 2009, 08:10 am
#54 Bentoshi: Because soccer is by far the most loved sport among the black population. The passion is so strong for soccer.
This is changing, but as Coach Pete is saying, it is wisest to allow it to happen naturally, organically. It is happening, but if we push it artificially, we land up with last night’s debacle.
7 Nov 2009, 08:10 am
Coach: I totally respect your opinion and ideally I want change to come naturally to but its frustrating to see change not happening. I’m not saying let’s force it but I’m merely saying let’s put matters into place to that address the issue and also create that culture where change is a norm and not seen as destroying existing cultures.
7 Nov 2009, 08:11 am
#54 Bentoshi: It is best for this change to happen from the bottom up, through the ranks, not through impetuous and short-sighted selections at national level.
7 Nov 2009, 08:12 am
#44 nama1:
surprisingly not
Unlike this blog, at the bookies people are expected to put their money where their mouth is!
to send the pack of forwards included Steenkamp, Chiliboy, Raubenheimer, Johnson against Leicester was a sheer madness.
7 Nov 2009, 08:14 am
We forget the nightmare Pierre Spies had in his first game in a losing side. Look at him now – though I didn’t see any players with the same potential last night except Wynand Olivier, in a better side he will impress more.
(I like Whoopi Goldberg at scrumhalf – she talks enough to distract that useless Ausi ref. Don’t agree with Ben Afleck at centre, Matt Damon will be better. Joelle Kayembe (wearing the outfit in the Sprite add) on the wing to distract the opposition and Paris and Britney (without underwear) at prop so the rest of the forwards will stay in the scrum and drive forward)
7 Nov 2009, 08:14 am
#55 JKBridge: I like the look of your first team. However, I think Beast is an underpowered scrummager and would have Wian Du Preez in his place. It would also be difficult to leave Bismarck out of the starting line-up. Possibly slot Smit in at TH again and see how the combo fares.
7 Nov 2009, 08:15 am
#58 Bentoshi:
Yeah ok but not SA rugby’s job to change South Africa.
Also you mentioned talent and potential
Where is a black lock that can take bakkies or Victors place.
and loose forwards better than brussow Smith spies etc
and a scrum half to replace Fdp
There are none
7 Nov 2009, 08:16 am
#61 stanretha: Funny! But Damon would make a good waterboy, not a center.
7 Nov 2009, 08:17 am
#53 CoachPete:
don’t kid yourself
Chiliboy and Tim Dlulani are few example why it will never happened, they can’t sustain the contact game for long.
7 Nov 2009, 08:17 am
The Tackler
u’r earlier posts
Give it a break man – your continuous badmouthing is unhealthy. Say something that contributes rather than that vile vindictive sloth. Be careful! it may well take you over completely one day and then what will you do…….
It get tiring to have to read your mad comments in here – stop wasting other folks time with what is essentially ****. Nobody minds rational criticism & debate, are you intellectually capable?
7 Nov 2009, 08:18 am
There are none now currently, but maybe in the future.
7 Nov 2009, 08:19 am
#65 Hondo:
ag they just need to eat more biltong and boerewors
7 Nov 2009, 08:20 am
#58 Bentoshi: But the heavy-handed way in which “change” is being pursued is destroying a culture – the culture of excellence.
If enforced change is such a good thing, why doesn’t SARU just admit that players have been picked for political reasons, instead of lying to the world about the team being picked strictly on merit? It would save us all a lot of embarrassment.
7 Nov 2009, 08:22 am
#62 Sidewinder:
It’s a sure bet both France and Ire will target the Beast at the scrum and in the rucks because he turns the ball over more often than not.
7 Nov 2009, 08:25 am
Coach: You talking about Bakkies, Victor and Heinrich like they were made over night. If you trying to imply white SA will always be better then Blacks in rugby then I feel sorry for you. That’s the same thinking started Apartheid.
7 Nov 2009, 08:26 am
#68 CoachPete:
That’s about right
the Boers are the best rugby players on this planet, so it’s a good corrolation between eating bultong and good rugby players
7 Nov 2009, 08:28 am
#70 Hondo: Yes, there are obvious weaknesses in the Bok team which are being glossed over. It’s only a matter of time before they come back to bite us.
7 Nov 2009, 08:29 am
Quotas last night
1 Pienaar
2 Du Plessis
3 Rossouw
4 Chilli Peppers
5 Guthro
6 Potgieter
Stars
1 Earl Rose
2 Ashley Johnson
The only time the protea bokkies looked good were when Earl was at standing in the ten channel in the first halve when they scored the try.
7 Nov 2009, 08:32 am
#71 Bentoshi:
So I state the obvious and all of a sudden its the same thinking that started aparheid.
So your opinion is 100% correct.
How come 99% of the bloggers agree with me.
I never implied white are better for SA rugby, and in fact feel I feel your statement is a direct insult to my beliefs.
I would be very happy to cheer a 100% black springbok team selected on merit, beating the ABs
7 Nov 2009, 08:33 am
#67 CoachPete:
I used to watch high school rugby on the East Rand, I tell you, the ferocity those Afrikaans kids played the game was a reality check time and again, you dropped an undersized black kid there, he would be maimed.
Chiliboy was certainly ‘protected’ though out his high school career, the word was passed around,,,
7 Nov 2009, 08:33 am
and Davon??? moer this guy is k@k! …. Ruan battled behind a loosing pack, even Morne would’ve battled. Earl Rose was okay, 1 good game out of 100. So for the next 99 games Earl will be K@K …arme Lions!
7 Nov 2009, 08:34 am
#71 Bentoshi: He’s not saying that. He’s not saying that White players will always be better than Black players.
This is what I mean. I think you’re distorting reality.
7 Nov 2009, 08:35 am
#62 SIDEWINDER
I agree Wian du Preez is playing very well at the moment. I left him out my squad as he’s an older player. I think Smit has done ok at scrum time at tighthead but feel he puts a lot of preasure on the Beast as he’s not the strongest tight hea around. Bismarck was a hard choice. I just felt the team needed Smit as captain and also in need of a quality hooker on the bench.
7 Nov 2009, 08:35 am
#63 CoachPete:
“Where is a black lock that can take bakkies or Victors place.”
Where are the white players who can do that?
Why do we always have to go down this route.
#65 Hondo:
You’ve said a lot of stupid things in the past. But mentioning Tim Dlulane in this regard must rank way high up there.
“they can’t sustain the contact game for long.” Am I right if I suspect that you are referring here to black players?
7 Nov 2009, 08:38 am
#74 rugby lover: How can you classify white players as “quota” players? The beneficiaries of the quota system are by definition “black”.
7 Nov 2009, 08:41 am
#80 nama1:
Yes true about anyone replacing bakkies and Victor
What I am hoping is there are some young black schoolboys (locks) embracing the game of rugby with passion and eventually becoming springbok locks
7 Nov 2009, 08:42 am
Sglazer: please inform me what the reality is?
7 Nov 2009, 08:43 am
#63 CoachPete: The only black lock coming through the system is the young Bulls lock Fudge Mabeta and he’s an athletic lock in the Matfield mould. No aggresive locks in the Bakkies mould though.
7 Nov 2009, 08:45 am
#84 JKBridge:
Hilton Yellow card lobberts
7 Nov 2009, 08:46 am
#25 Bentoshi: Don’t get ahead of yourself Tokoloshi!!! Earl did have a good game, but then Earl does have moments of brilliance, unfortunately, he has shown over and over again, that a stuff up of note is not far away!! And in addition, it didn’t take much to be a standout player in this debacle!!
Very few of the players that played are near being international quality. Your rantings about players of colour not geing picked is soooooo yesterday. More players of colour that don’t desrerve to be picked, than what deserving white players are!!
Merit for representative teams is the only way to be a force in international sport!! Our national teams should not be a vehicle fo social redressing!!
What is the government doing to promote rugby amongst players of colour??? They beat the drum yes, but do they actively do anything Nooooo!! much more important things to do,like renaming cities, and buying exotic cars!!!
7 Nov 2009, 08:49 am
#81 Sidewinder:
It just seems to me that everybody is blaming the performance or lack thereof on the players of colour selected for this particular, match but if you actually watched the match objectively then you would know that it was the regular springboks that failed the team last night. Culprits being
Pienaar,Rossouw,Chilli,Guthro and Jannie.
Raubenheimer did not fair to badly and tackled his hart out.
Ashley star followed by Earl in the backs.Nokwe good game too.
Lot of people singing Bekkers praises but I was not convinced and never rated him anyway.
7 Nov 2009, 08:49 am
bottom line is that being No.1 in the world and having beaten the British Lions…..every side we play against, dirtrackers or test side, we will be everyones World Cup Final.
We need to learn quickly from this, and generally you learn more from a loss than a win so the first-timers should improve a lot before their next game.
7 Nov 2009, 08:53 am
#87 rugby lover:
just a little perspective.
Johnstone missed the tackle on the try scorer way to easily for my liking.
Roussow was the only tight 5 forward prepared to show some attitude.
7 Nov 2009, 08:53 am
Great article Grant!
PdV and his cronies must learn not to be such wankers when it comes to selection in future
7 Nov 2009, 08:53 am
#88 Brigadier Van Zyl:
The sad thing is that most of us blogger on this site believe with the correct selection the “second string side” could be a dam good team, but its not.
7 Nov 2009, 08:57 am
#91 CoachPete:
It’s still not a bad side but I believe that there is a stronger option availible?
7 Nov 2009, 08:57 am
The way the pack got pushed back,looked like a rolling maul a few times,is the most embarrassing bok moments i think i have ever witnessed!
7 Nov 2009, 08:58 am
#72 Hondo:
“so it’s a good corrolation between eating bultong and good rugby players”
We have already established that you can’t count, can’t read and now we find out that you can’t spell. It’s BILTONG, not bultong. Go ask for your school fees back.
I just hope you’re not one of those guys writing to newspapers fighting for Afrikaans. If you are, stop it. You are just doing more damage to my mother’s language.
7 Nov 2009, 08:58 am
#89 Brigadier Van Zyl:
My perspective
Pienaar with no pressure at all Kicked the kick down the throat of the attacking team and Ashley got Beaten against the grain.
7 Nov 2009, 09:00 am
#87 rugby lover: There were a number of dubious selections across the colour divide, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that some non-white players are there because of their complexion. And don’t forget that they were playing a Leicester 2nd team. Most average Currie Cup players could have slotted in and given a reasonable performance.
Last night’s peformance only proved what we all already know – the players picked were not the best players available. In some cases, the motive was political; in others, not. Either way, it’s criminal not to pick your best team, and then to tell the world that players were only picked on merit.
7 Nov 2009, 09:00 am
#94 nama1:
Its Bultong if made from Bulls
7 Nov 2009, 09:05 am
Guys
Let’s start off by saying that last night’s biggest disgrace wasn’t the defeat to Leicester- it was the blogger’s behaviour, a drunken, rascist slugfest that belonged in a shebeen in a township rather than on a website on the internet for all to see how sick and polarized SA society still is. People like Valkyrie, Wakanathan, Langenhoven, Skopskiet and the like have shown themselves to be bitterly twisted individuals living in the past using every opportunity to spew their filth. It is guys like them that perpetuate racism. Be that as it may. Let’s get to rugby.
The Boks were beaten as follows:
1. Experienced, well drilled front row fronting a bunch of eager youngsters. This was the area they targeted and it worked for them as they put in 8 man scrum after 8 man scrum driving the bokscrum back.
2. Leicesters technique come ruck time and at the breakdown driving over the ball and sealing it off and being allowed to do this right on and over the borderline by the ref made any attempt at contesting for the ball impossible.
3. This was not helped by the fact that the SA loosies did not gel as a unit, with Potgieter having to do all the hard tight graft and tackling while Raubenheimer was largely abscent and Johnson playing a very loose game trying to run up the ball too frequently in stead of playing to the structure, although he did pull off a few telling tackles, mainly out wide, while the problem- and his presence to help, was in and around the rucks. Once the Tigers pack gained ascendancy and momentum one man fighting on the ground was never gonna stem the tide. When Deysel replaced Raubenheimer he was equally ineffectual with ball in hand, but in him Potgieter found an ally who was willing to fight the Leicester bpack.
4. The Boks were without a captain of note on the field for more than 60 minutes. Only once Potgieter took over as captain with less than 20 to go did he succeed en getting the Boks to begin to pull together and return to structure. The game ended with Leicester hanging on to their 5 point lead for dear life.
Truth be told, we were played into a hole by the Tigers scrummaging, but played ourselves out of the hole. This will prove invaluable for the team going forward.
Fact is, the Boks need to do something about our scrummaging. It wasn’t that we got annihilated, but the way and extent to which we were annihilated is what was telling. And let’s be honest, the test frontrow wouldn’t have faired any better, and neither would the Freestaters or Wikus Blaauw sitting back home. End of story.
Lessons learnt:
1. Our scrummaging needs a major overhaul
2. Three practices for a disjointed team ahead of such a game is never enough. The guys started finding one another in the last 5 minutes.
3. Dewald Potgieter has a huge future ahead of him. You could clearly see the change when he took over as captain as well.
4. Chilliboy will surely now be judged for what he is. It is clear that he was not over his injury and was again pushed too soon. This is madness
7 Nov 2009, 09:06 am
#96 Sidewinder:
Point taken
What it has proofed to me though is that the seond string regulars like Jannie ,Chilli,Guthro and Pienaar is not as good as we would like to believe.This has been proven in the past(BI 3test)and it is not a problem with the colour of their skins.They are overrated and it is time to discard them and experiment like Pieter is doing now in order to find the next best players behind our starting fifteen.
7 Nov 2009, 09:06 am
#79 JKBridge: Wian is only 27…Hardly too old???
Top playersin SA
1. Wian, Heinke, Beast, Blauuw
2. Bismark, John Smit, Adriaan Strauss, Tiaan Lebenberg
3. WP Nel, Kevin Buys, Brok Harris, Jannie du P
4. Bakkies Botha,Steven Sykes, Anton van Zyl
5. Victor Matfield, Bekker, David de Villiers
6. Brussow, Francois Louw, Stegmann
7. Juan Smit, Schalk Burger, Deysel, Vermeulen
8. Spies, Alberts, Kanko, Johnson
9. Fourie du P, Sarel Pretorius, Jano Vermaak, Hougaard
10. Morne Steyn, JL Potgieter
11. Habana, Nokwe, Mvovo, vd Heever
12. Olivier, Doppies la Grange, Bosman, Grant
13. Jacque Fourie, de Jongh, Awyn Hollenbach
14. JPP, Mapoe, JJ Engelbrecht, Basson, Aplon
15. Kirchner, Viljoen, Pieterson, Daniler
Selections based on form in the CC,S14, and Inenationals
So Bentoshi, please showme the players betterthan thesein your opinion?
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