PdV to blame for Leicester disgrace
7 Nov 2009
Peter de Villiers must take responsibility for his poor selections and the embarrassment that followed in Leicester on Friday.
It’s all good and well lauding De Villiers when his first-choice side steamroll opponents, but now when an opportunity presents itself to mould an inexperienced group, he and his fellow coaching staff looked out of their depth.
The Springbok ‘second-choice’ XV were annihilated by a club side without at least 16 of their regulars, also not helping their synergy. The Bok coaching staff will point to the lack of preparation time, but in that situation the common sense option is to pick combinations at provincial level. De Villiers ignored this, and the result was a disorganised showing in all facets that led to the South Africans being out-muscled.
While De Villiers stated this tour was about gauging his next best, his refusal to pick form players from the Currie Cup has now left him with more questions than answers.
This team were led out to be exposed by stupid selections and from numbers 1 to 22 there are few success stories from Welford Road.
De Villiers stated in the latest issue of SA Rugby magazine how his technical knowledge of the scrum is the best in the Bok camp. But if that was the case, he would’ve known before this match that Gurthro Steenkamp would’ve repeatedly unbound and taken his head out of the scrum, resulting in penalty after penalty. Instead of choosing Wian du Preez – who is now heading to Munster – and the rest of the Cheetahs front-row as a unit, they were all watching this debacle on TV.
That Chiliboy Ralepelle – the Bulls’ second-choice hooker – had the opportunity to lead his country after not being fit to take part in a Currie Cup final six days earlier is ludicrous. It wasn’t surprising he limped off after 20 minutes, and he should be on the next plane home. Jannie du Plessis’ days in the Bok set-up should also be numbered as he failed to produce any leadership or grunt required. How Heinke van der Merwe was suppose to perform after not playing in six months is a mystery, and one shudders at the thought of him having to play tighthead on this tour.
Danie Rossouw was a frustrated figure with the lack of leadership, and while he tried all night, it wasn’t enough. Andries Bekker also toiled throughout, but in a disorganised side, it was very difficult. That the Sharks’ fourth-choice lock Alistair Hargreaves came on to try and resurrect matters said it all. Even against 20-year-old rookies, Hargreaves was out of his depth and he would have benefited more from an Isaac Ross-course in bulking up over the summer.
Ashley Johnson and Jean Deysel were the standout loosies, but how Davon Raubenheimer was considered ahead of Duane Vermeulen, Francois Louw and Willem Alberts is beyond me.
Heini Adams, another who can’t start for his province, struggled behind a pack being shunted around. His tactical kicking was woeful, and Sarel Pretorius would’ve been a better option.
Ruan Pienaar did nothing to show he is anything close to an international flyhalf. Worst of all was his temperament, panicked decisions characterising his play. But what can you expect when the last time he played in the 10 jersey was on 25 July? De Villiers and Dick Muir’s obsession with versatility over specialists seems to be slowly but surely ruining what was a promising career.
Wynand Olivier, Juan de Jongh, Jongi Nokwe and Earl Rose all soldiered on with little quality ball, but Odwa Ndungane delivered a disinterested performance. Ndungane’s final minute knock-on capped off why Lionel Mapoe should have been in his place on tour.
The technical short-comings, especially at the breakdown, were disappointing, but what was even more worrying was the lack of commitment and desperation shown by some in a Bok jersey.
Victories over Ireland and France were the main aims of this tour, but just as important was judging the depth of South African rugby. De Villiers should now realise that the out-of-form third-tier players who weren’t good enough before, still aren’t good enough. What a waste of an opportunity to ignore those who deserved a chance to tour.
Leicester now have the Bok scalp as theirs. However, records won’t state it was a woeful Bok side, many of whom shouldn’t have been there. For that, De Villiers and his selectors must take the blame.
By Grant Ball
394 Comments
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7 Nov 2009, 09:08 am
74. rugby lover:
I agree that Du Plessis and Guthro. They were shocking!!!
Chiliboy wasn’t ready for the currie cup final 5 days prior but all of a sudden he’s fit to captain his country. It doesn’t make sense….
Danie is not the player he used to be!!!
I caan’t understand what all this fuss is about Potgieter? please could someone tell me? We know he’s not an openside flank and it was unfair to expect him to be competitive on the ground. But is he really better then Jean Deysel or Francois Louw at Blindside flank or Duanne Vermeulen, Willem Alberts and Ashley Johnson at 8th man. I don’t think so. People already talking of him captaining he Boks one day.
I agree Ashley Johnson is playing awesome rugby at the moment and Earl Rose did have a good game but we all know thats what he’s known for. Unpredictable…
I disagree with calling Ruan Pienaar a quote player. The poor chap has been screwed around so much of late.
He wants to play scrumhalf!!!
He’s not a flyhalf!!!
He’s a scrumhalf!!! plain and simlple
And actually one of the best in the world!!!
Stars
1 Earl Rose
2 Ashley Johnson
The only time the protea bokkies looked good were when Earl was at standing in the ten channel in the first halve when they scored the try.
7 Nov 2009, 09:10 am
#100 Cheetah 4 Eva:
Yep You have pretty much got them all
7 Nov 2009, 09:14 am
#101 JKBridge:
I don’t know why Potgieter is so highly rated and I do think that Vermeulen is in a much better mold for the South African style of play in this position.
7 Nov 2009, 09:14 am
#74 rugby lover: You clearly watched a different game. Potgieter was immense on the defence. We hardly ever had attacking ball to play with, so nobody excelled there but do yourself a favour if you have a PVR and watch the match again. You might be a rugby Lover, but you don’t have a clue about the game that is your opinion.
7 Nov 2009, 09:19 am
Guys….1 thing has been clear ….although Boks have reigned supreme in 2009 ….our scrums have been an ongoing area of major concern. Smit at 3 has been , from a set scrum perspective, poor. Add a very average Beast …who except for 1 test has also scrummed poorlky…and the inevitable writing is on the wall….matter of time before we get nailed….
Boks seem to see scrumming as a neccessary evil….not that important….rather have the ‘looser’ tight forwards who can make tackles, etc….
That mindset, the same mindset that saw Boks play without a fetcher, is the danger to our rugby.
Guthro and Jannie dup were obliterated….humiliated….then the cancer spreads….our loosie cannot play l;ike that…sulking Ruan at 10 also even under more pressure….confidence goes quickly!!
Our arrogance is our problem…..we need a front row that first and foremost can do there primary functions well…..
France is waiting….they gonna target the Bok scrum….i fear the worst.
PDV…get back to basics….finsd a front row….get CJ and BJ back home….this farce of a front row is going to be our downfall….We cannot win WC 2011 if we cant scrum.
J Smit off bench…or retire….
Harsh perhaps…but realistic.
7 Nov 2009, 09:20 am
The bottom line is PdV has stepped out of Jake’s shadow (not selected the core of the team that Jake developed) twice now and seen his backside both times. Yesterday was a mega disgrace! It was almost like a death in the family.
7 Nov 2009, 09:22 am
#104 catleya:
No you have it wrong that is you’re opinion and the beauty of it all is that in our new democratic South Africa that we are all entitled to this.So in essence I respect you’re opinion but do not agree with it.
7 Nov 2009, 09:23 am
100. Cheetah 4 Eva :
Yes, you are right i ddn’t relise Wian’s only 27.
Good Team based on form but you can’t write off players that havn’t been given game time after returning from injury or for other reasons.
Waylon Murray and Gerhard Mostert come to mind.
Hilton Lobberts wasn’t a bad player either but seems to have fell out of favour with Rassie etc…
What about Flip van der Merwe? he was one of the form players in the currie cup but had to make way for the returning boks in Matfield, Bakkies and Rossouw at the Bulls.
Paul Delport was such a promising young player. I wish one of the Super 14 unions give him a chance.
7 Nov 2009, 09:24 am
I think the right choice would’ve been:
15.) Zane Kirchner
14.) Lionel Mapoe
13.) Juan De Jongh
12.) Wynand Olivier
11.) Jongi Nokwe
10.) Peter Grant
9.) Francois Hougaard
8.) Ashley Johnson
7.) Duane Vermeulen
6.) Franvois Louw
5.) Andries Bekker
4.) Danie Rossouw
3.) Brok Harris
2.) Tiaan Liebenberg
1.) Wicus Blaauw
16.) Chilliboy Rallepele
17.) Jannie du Pllessis
18.) Johan Muller
19.) Jead Deysel
20.) Heini Adams
21.) Earl Rose
22.) Odwa Ndungane
7 Nov 2009, 09:24 am
Watching the game last night was desperately sad from the perspective of an avid SA fan and a staunch South African. How Raubenheimer, Maku and dead horse Steenkamp can be included in a side referred to as anything other than a development side from SA is a farce – me and my mates were a laughing stock in front of our UK mates watching this last night – that team cannot be called Springboks, it is an embarresment to our country in every sense. There are so many real prospects left behind, Kockott being the most outstanding – why they invest in a 29 year old 70kg scrumhalf instead of using Pienaar there is beyond belief. Pdv get real mate!!!!
7 Nov 2009, 09:25 am
#105 grant10: How it could happen that Boks have a weak scrum? I though scrum was Boks pride for decades, wasn’t it?
7 Nov 2009, 09:27 am
I don’t really know what the fuss is about.
I take you back to my post during the week, where I said it’s a pity that the careers of good players like Olivier, Rossouw and Potgieter will now be sullied by the terrible rugby that this quota team will inevitably dish up.
My prediction was so accurate, it might as well have been posted in hindsight.
7 Nov 2009, 09:27 am
And in other news
At Half Time in the Air New Zealand Cup: Canterbury 18-3 Wellington
7 Nov 2009, 09:29 am
Grant! How’s the head this morning boet?
7 Nov 2009, 09:30 am
And another thing. I had to shake my head when Snor got coach of the year at the SA Rugby awards.
You could have put Darren Scott in charge of the Bok team, and we would still have won those trophies. The players are that good.
Take away our senior stars, and the REAL coaching ability comes to the fore, unfortunately.
7 Nov 2009, 09:31 am
The reallity is that we the loyal rugby supporters expect to see honest selections on merit – ie the best that can play or the most promising. Would Pdv let a 3rd year medical student perform surgery on him instead of the most qualified professional. haha perhaps they could remove some of his unjustified and over-inflated ego!!
7 Nov 2009, 09:31 am
Oh by the way.
Juan de Jongh is useless.
You heard it here first.
7 Nov 2009, 09:32 am
#105 grant10: Look JS is the best TH in SA at the moment, finished and klaar. The real selection shockers of this tour were: Chilli and Maku over Tiaan and Strauss (who is going to sit on the bench now)? Heinke over WP Nel, Hargreaves over any other lock in the country and Potgieter, Johnson and Raebenhaemer over Deysel, Vermuelen, Steman and Alberts. That said Johnson really stood up and justified his selection. Deysel showed the Pottie fans, surely now people can see Pottie can’t make any impact at this level. Bekker was awesome, I thought he was more physical than Danie even, and this is usually a weak point for him. Rose was also good. De Young must go, he got bounced and slipped tackles all day, out of his depth.
7 Nov 2009, 09:33 am
#118 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
I thought Potgieter was our best forward.
7 Nov 2009, 09:33 am
I just hope this **** about SA’s so called depth will stop. We don’t have depth. Take away JS, Matfield, Bakkies, Juan Smith, Schalk, Du Preez and Habana and see if you can put together a team that can conquer the world with the players that’s left. Don’t even take into account transformation.
7 Nov 2009, 09:35 am
good morning all, nice article grant ball, i’m sure master keo will be thoroughly impressed with it. What are you ever to blame for in your line of work buddy, huh? ****-all! The game of rugby is not about the song & dance by stupid wannabe-scribes like you. **** Muir was part of the selections & took this team through it’s paces and was the man fielding questions earlier in the week, how much “BLAME” is he shouldering?
Mnxim, i don’t even know why i’m responding to such inanities. Yes transformation is to blame, pdv thinking that he can transform jannie du plessis into a world class tighthead and ruan pienaar into a flyhalf. Raubenheimer was overwhelmed by the occassion – deer in headlights!! Potgieter is no backup to brussow- but to be fair even heinrich was nullified in brisbane when the aussies were hunting in a pack @ the breakdown rather than the single sniper option saffas always apply.
Heinie Adams welcome to the big leagues! Even though even fourie du preez sometimes struggles behind a scrum permanently on R-gear. I said yesterday i was going to scrutinise your option taking & general domination of the game. Must say Francois Hougaard must start the next Experiment game so we can see more of what he offered.
Gotta watch some air new zealand cup final rugby…later muppits
7 Nov 2009, 09:36 am
#100 Cheetah 4 Eva: You can write in Dewald Potgieter between Juan Smith and Schalk Burger at 7 in your team. For the rest I agree with you 100 percent.
But don’t you find it very disturbing that Heinke is no 2 on your list and surely even you will agree not far behind Wian, and look at how Heinke was destroyed. Doesn’t that concern you?
7 Nov 2009, 09:40 am
104. catleya :
No need to get uptight!!! everyone has there own oppinions.
Potgieter is not an openside and he proved it yesterday. How much ball did he steal. I can’t actually recall one..
yes his defense is great but so is the defense of the other loose forwards.
Can you honestly say he deserves to be there ahead of Deysel, Louw, Vermeulen or Alberts?
7 Nov 2009, 09:41 am
How the guys the morning… I see the same inbrates are starting the fight again.. Let me have go… Jou ma is ‘n quota… #119 Tacitus: Ashley Johnson…???
7 Nov 2009, 09:42 am
Lets keep our heads here. I think this is the 2nd best team out there:
15. Terrblanche
14. Mapoe
13. Adi (WO should start at 12 for real boks)
12. Grant
10. Ruan
9. Duvet
8. Vermeulen
7. Deysel
6. Stegman
5. Bekker
4. Rossoux
3. JdP
2. Tiaan
1. Guthro
16.) Adrian Strauss
17.) WP Nel
18.) Anton van Zyl
19.) Willem Alberts
20.) Hougaard
21.) Meyer Bosman
22.) Odwa Ndungane
7 Nov 2009, 09:43 am
Deysel is mindless meat. Strong but that’s about it.
Louw. Who is he?
Vermeulen. Should be in the mix, but he’s not better than Potgieter.
Alberts. Strong bugger. Maybe needs a chance. But he’s an 8thman. And there’s only one 8thman who will be starting for the Boks in the next 5 years – barring injuries, of course.
7 Nov 2009, 09:44 am
#124 Langenhoven:
Nah. Too inexperienced for the cauldron he was thrown into last night. Alberts would have served us better at no.8.
Stronger than Johnson, and a lot more experienced at trench warfare.
7 Nov 2009, 09:44 am
#119 Tacitus: Of course you did. He made no cms, did make lots of tackles (but behind ad line), and made 0 steals. He bothered no-one physically, but was obviously much better than Raubenheimer who looked like a school boy.
7 Nov 2009, 09:45 am
Well the rot has started already
…..lets hope that it stays in the second string side and is not infectious!!
7 Nov 2009, 09:46 am
Davon Raubenheimer should still be playing club rugby.
The oke wasnt even great when playing for Griquas! What the hell was PdV expecting?
Pathetic selections. This is all de Villiers can come up with when the big boys are away, showing him up for the rubbish coach that he is
7 Nov 2009, 09:47 am
#127 Tacitus: I don’t think you understand this game to well… Must be your genetic makeup
7 Nov 2009, 09:49 am
#123 JKBridge: Agreed. Pottie is nowhere, especially in NH where strength IS important. He has none. Loosies should have been Vermulen/Alberts Deysel and Stegman. Even with a **** scrum those guys would have made an impact. Strong physical buggers who hit guys and rucks hard. Stegman would have stolen plenty ball.
7 Nov 2009, 09:49 am
#125 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
The “weakest team in AB history” will klap this team like there’s no tomorrow.
Who is Duvet?(9)
7 Nov 2009, 09:49 am
#112 Tacitus: Potgieter was really poor last night. Johnson’s reputation has been sullied in the process.
7 Nov 2009, 09:50 am
I don’t think that we can blame the loosies for not stealing any ball,because stuart failed to penalise the tigers for just going over the top,going off their feet and sealing the ball off everytime
7 Nov 2009, 09:50 am
Guthro was reacquainted to his arse last night. There is no way he’s the 2nd best loose head in the country
7 Nov 2009, 09:54 am
It’s the end of the world! The sun will not come up tomorrow…! PdV should be put on trial and shot by firing squad just before the world does end… Life will never be the same as we know it…
Whatever are we gonna do???(sniff)
Really think most guys are over-reacting. Sure it was a disappointing performance… so what?
It was NOT a Bok side. Caps were NOT awarded. PdV wanted to try out some players that he wanted to see how they performed in a Bok environment… Now he knows…
Ironically I think it was the more established and vaunted players who let us down. JDup was useless. Ruan wasn’t much better. Olivier’s tackling left a lot to be desired. Chili…? Gurthro didn’t feature. With the front shown their backsides everything else went downhill…
Potgieter never bound and supported JDup at scrum time… Ashley Johnson never put his head into the scrum and hardly even got into a shoving position…
Earl Rose had a good game. Bekker had a good game. Johnson had a good game in the loose but needed to put the grunt into the tight… Juan De Jongh had a great defensive game and precious little opportunity on attack…
All in all a poor performance… So what?
How else was PdV going to test the guys that impressed HIM in the CC?
We all know there are better players and we all know what they can do. So does PdV.
Their time will come.
Just like to remind everyone that when these games were scheduled most supporters applauded them and agreed they were the perfect opportunity to blood these young eye-cathers from the CC. I cautioned at the time that if we lost everyone would call for PdV’s head…
Where’s that silver platter…
7 Nov 2009, 09:55 am
#130 WP_: The biggest fkup PDV made was to put DM in charge of the team.. DM is not only useless he is also a fraud and a paracite.. Of the all the opportunities he has been given to make a difference he chooses this one to sabotage bokketeas… typical inbrate mental disorder… The story of the frog and the scorpion comes to mind
7 Nov 2009, 09:55 am
#104 catleya: Pottie is a young Botes. Yes he has a high work rate and makes many tackles and links well, but he has no impact on the game especially in the NH. He knocks nobody back over the gain-line, is light-weight in the ball carry, bothering no defenders and doesn’t steal the ball at all, in fact he battles to slow it down. So, yes, his tackle stats, may look good and even his ball-carries, but really Deysel was more of a threat. This was seen in how many people started to defend against him (as the only and telegraphed ball-carrier) and the attention he got at the breakdown where he was aconstant nuciance. Chuck in Alberts or Vermuelen and our loose trio would have been very strong.
7 Nov 2009, 09:55 am
Sean Maitland scores – Canterbury 25-10 Wellington (63 mins)
7 Nov 2009, 09:58 am
126. Tacitus
I diagree about Deysel. I think he’s more than just mindless meat!!!
Francois Louw from the Stormers – has been playing really well this year.
Don’t get me wrong i think Potgieter is good but not Bok material just yet. One for the future YES!!! I think he should play at 8 only. He’s not big enough for a blindside…
I know Alberts and Vermeulen are always going to be behind Spies and kanko but good back up.
Why do you say Potgieter is better then Vermeulen or any of the rest for that matter?
Nice depth we have in SA just wish the selectors would choose them. LOL… How can anyone honestly say Davon Raubenheimer deserves to be there – it’s madness!!!
7 Nov 2009, 10:00 am
#139 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
On what do you justify Ruan continuing at 10 ??
7 Nov 2009, 10:01 am
Game still on there, Slade yellowed with 14 mins to go, Lions lay siege.
7 Nov 2009, 10:02 am
What a pleasure it was to see the Leicester crowd welcome their SA visitors on to the field. And the silence afforded when the Boks kicked for goal is refreshing – something I haven’t witnessed for years. The booing and jeering when visitors run on, and when they kick for goal, is oh so tiresome.The Leicester crowd are to be congratulated for this demonstration of etiquette which clearly is normal for them.And of course they thoroughly deserved their win.
7 Nov 2009, 10:02 am
You can hardly say bthat the result of this game came as a shock. Barring one or two names (Deysel foremost – and he wasn’t even in the original squad…) it was always a paltry team by “Bok” standards.
Can we blame a lack of cohesion? NO. The British and Irish Lions made a clean sweep of the best and worst of the SA provinces earlier this year. Not to mention that 16 of Leicester’s top players weren’t available.
Another interesting stat – is that another game in which Stuart Dickinson refs the men in green and gold to defeat? Boy, his stats in games involving SA are starting to look very one sided…
But I agree with the main theme of this thread, the main reason we lost were a bizarre hotch-potch of selections.
7 Nov 2009, 10:03 am
#119 Tacitus: I agree. He was fighting that entire Tigers pack. This was one of those games like in the Trinations when the Ausies moered us in the away game, and Brussow was equally ineffective and outgunned, because he was fighting a lone battle.
It was about tackling and unfortunately there was no real support from the other loosies. In this kind of game you need someone to play off defensively like a foil as well, because if you,ve just tackled and are on the ground, you need someone to contest the ball, and vice versa when he tackles, you have to contest. That is why Potgieter and Stegmann are so good and effective together, and why Potgieter and Brussow will be so phenomenal. The coach should never have pulled Brussow from the game.
Funny that Deysel is being singled out as having had a good game. He was nowhere physically as carrier or on defence, although even that was better than Raubenheimer.
And in a game like this you need an 8 that can mix it in the tight loose as well.
7 Nov 2009, 10:03 am
#130 WP_:
Ai, ai, ai, ai.
7 Nov 2009, 10:08 am
ouch, Lions score 25-18
7 Nov 2009, 10:08 am
#121 Transformation: Interesting, so now Muir, and not PdV or the Sports Ministry, is to blame for team selections? Nonsense. PdV openly stated the squad is the very best SA has to offer. Conclusion? PdV is either dishonest or delusional. Take your pick.
Why criticise J du Plessis without mentioning Steenkamp, whose scrummaging was suspect for quite some time now? And remember, it is PdV who decided to leave the two best front rows (Cheetahs and WP) back home in SA.
Since you call yourself “Transformation”, I’m sure you have the ability to comment on it. Chiliboy, Maku, Steenkamp, Raubenheimer, Adams and Rose are quota players and don’t belong in a Bok jersey. Let’s not be coy about it.
Moreover, Pienaar’s flyhalf experiment has failed repeatedly, and yet PdV stubbornly persists with his dream of turning him into the Larkham of SA rugby. No one but PdV is to blame for that fiasco.
Instead of lambasting Keo and his writers, maybe you should criticise those who are really hampering the quality of SA rugby.
7 Nov 2009, 10:09 am
#133 nama1: Ya, but not a bad B-team at least it would have beaten Leicester.
#142 justrugby: Its for the same reason I still would have picked Guthro and Jannie. They have shown before they can step up at the highest level. Less than a year ago Ruan got man-of-the-match at 10 against England, Jannie played in the WC and Guthro is kak, but I would still have himover inexperienced props, maybe Wiaan would be better.
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