PdV to blame for Leicester disgrace
7 Nov 2009
Peter de Villiers must take responsibility for his poor selections and the embarrassment that followed in Leicester on Friday.
It’s all good and well lauding De Villiers when his first-choice side steamroll opponents, but now when an opportunity presents itself to mould an inexperienced group, he and his fellow coaching staff looked out of their depth.
The Springbok ‘second-choice’ XV were annihilated by a club side without at least 16 of their regulars, also not helping their synergy. The Bok coaching staff will point to the lack of preparation time, but in that situation the common sense option is to pick combinations at provincial level. De Villiers ignored this, and the result was a disorganised showing in all facets that led to the South Africans being out-muscled.
While De Villiers stated this tour was about gauging his next best, his refusal to pick form players from the Currie Cup has now left him with more questions than answers.
This team were led out to be exposed by stupid selections and from numbers 1 to 22 there are few success stories from Welford Road.
De Villiers stated in the latest issue of SA Rugby magazine how his technical knowledge of the scrum is the best in the Bok camp. But if that was the case, he would’ve known before this match that Gurthro Steenkamp would’ve repeatedly unbound and taken his head out of the scrum, resulting in penalty after penalty. Instead of choosing Wian du Preez – who is now heading to Munster – and the rest of the Cheetahs front-row as a unit, they were all watching this debacle on TV.
That Chiliboy Ralepelle – the Bulls’ second-choice hooker – had the opportunity to lead his country after not being fit to take part in a Currie Cup final six days earlier is ludicrous. It wasn’t surprising he limped off after 20 minutes, and he should be on the next plane home. Jannie du Plessis’ days in the Bok set-up should also be numbered as he failed to produce any leadership or grunt required. How Heinke van der Merwe was suppose to perform after not playing in six months is a mystery, and one shudders at the thought of him having to play tighthead on this tour.
Danie Rossouw was a frustrated figure with the lack of leadership, and while he tried all night, it wasn’t enough. Andries Bekker also toiled throughout, but in a disorganised side, it was very difficult. That the Sharks’ fourth-choice lock Alistair Hargreaves came on to try and resurrect matters said it all. Even against 20-year-old rookies, Hargreaves was out of his depth and he would have benefited more from an Isaac Ross-course in bulking up over the summer.
Ashley Johnson and Jean Deysel were the standout loosies, but how Davon Raubenheimer was considered ahead of Duane Vermeulen, Francois Louw and Willem Alberts is beyond me.
Heini Adams, another who can’t start for his province, struggled behind a pack being shunted around. His tactical kicking was woeful, and Sarel Pretorius would’ve been a better option.
Ruan Pienaar did nothing to show he is anything close to an international flyhalf. Worst of all was his temperament, panicked decisions characterising his play. But what can you expect when the last time he played in the 10 jersey was on 25 July? De Villiers and Dick Muir’s obsession with versatility over specialists seems to be slowly but surely ruining what was a promising career.
Wynand Olivier, Juan de Jongh, Jongi Nokwe and Earl Rose all soldiered on with little quality ball, but Odwa Ndungane delivered a disinterested performance. Ndungane’s final minute knock-on capped off why Lionel Mapoe should have been in his place on tour.
The technical short-comings, especially at the breakdown, were disappointing, but what was even more worrying was the lack of commitment and desperation shown by some in a Bok jersey.
Victories over Ireland and France were the main aims of this tour, but just as important was judging the depth of South African rugby. De Villiers should now realise that the out-of-form third-tier players who weren’t good enough before, still aren’t good enough. What a waste of an opportunity to ignore those who deserved a chance to tour.
Leicester now have the Bok scalp as theirs. However, records won’t state it was a woeful Bok side, many of whom shouldn’t have been there. For that, De Villiers and his selectors must take the blame.
By Grant Ball
394 Comments
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7 Nov 2009, 10:09 am
25-20 and 5 mins left with Cantabs still with 14 men
7 Nov 2009, 10:13 am
Grant Ball, Good article. You said it all. Agree 100% there.
Selections what cost us and the ones that should have been there were sitting at home watching on TV.
A total disgrace. Select the best always and reward the players that have played well in the CC. How some got selected is just stupid.
7 Nov 2009, 10:16 am
Canterbury won again.
7 Nov 2009, 10:17 am
#141 JKBridge: Raubenheimer is a fantastic find and will step up when the coach provides him with a bit more of instruction other than “play at 7.. jy weet mos”… **** Muir is useless
7 Nov 2009, 10:18 am
#89 Brigadier Van Zyl:
Johnsom missed few more
And he missed quite a few last week in the CC
#94 nama1: final
it’s spelled ‘Bultong’ in Afrikaans, it’s the Germanic Ü that is pronounced ‘ei’
7 Nov 2009, 10:19 am
#152 Puma: Damn… are you back again. Was last nights punishment not enough???
7 Nov 2009, 10:23 am
#156 Langenhoven: Damn… are you still looking for k*k on keo?
7 Nov 2009, 10:26 am
#144 superba:
Funny, I commented during the game how utterly dull the Leicester stands looked, compared to sea of horned, painted and flag waving fanatics at Loftus Versfeld.
It’s almost like playing in a cemetary, compared to Roftus!
7 Nov 2009, 10:27 am
#150 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
You meant Leicester’s 2nd team with few reserve team players?
It was by no means Leister 1st team yesterday, no way near!
The Leicester ‘B’ team lost on Sunday to Leeds, and it was stronger than the team the Boks faced yesterday!
Now go figure the real magnitude of the defeat!
7 Nov 2009, 10:28 am
#157 wooden spoon: Hi Spooner, where in the world are you today, saw you appear and just had to say ‘Hi’.
Are you still enjoying your Epic Tour?
7 Nov 2009, 10:28 am
Couldn’t think of anything worse than going to uncouth, racist Loftus. Not my cup of tea, thanks.
7 Nov 2009, 10:29 am
Well, Potgieter had an excellent game against a much stronger pack than last night, when the Emerging Boks drew with the British Lions in Cape Town.
7 Nov 2009, 10:30 am
#158 Tacitus: Leicester is a strange place famous for Gary Linneker and Walkers Crisps!
The Tigers Fans do wear fancy shirts!!
7 Nov 2009, 10:30 am
#160 carol: Hi Carol – Ho Chi Minh City, a good place, lots happening. Thanks for saying hi, I gotta go now though – keep the peace!
7 Nov 2009, 10:32 am
#164 wooden spoon:
Watch out for left over landmines.
7 Nov 2009, 10:33 am
#164 wooden spoon: Keep in touch and have fun!!
7 Nov 2009, 10:35 am
These guys would be playing for tests in other countries:
Deysel
Vermeulen
Stegman
Alberts
Liebeneburg
Mapoe
Yet none were in the original squad.
These players would battle to make the Leicester squad:
Chilliboy
Maku
Rabenheimer
Hargreaves
The selection was horrible. How Chilli and Maku are considered 2nd and 3rd best hookers in SA is a mystery. They are closer to 10th and 14th choice. I mean really, Strauss or Liebenburg will be called up and go straight to the test 22.
7 Nov 2009, 10:36 am
For me, without a doubtm the tight 5 were poor. Especially Bekker & Russouw.
These two were supposed to be the go to men. I would not expect them to loose any line out ball against the inferior opposition (no disrespect to Leicester, but you could hardly think your locks are really beter)
Furthermore, Bekker & Russouw are the poorest ball carrying locks in world rugby. Both run far too upright, and very often (as like last night) loose the ball in the tackle.
Essentially, although they were better than the rest of the Bok pack, they were expected to be, and as a result, should also probably get 2’s or 3?3.
Front row – Totally outplayed (as expected) I said before the game that our front row would be schooled against the Leicester pack. Castro is one of the strongest 3’s in world rugby, Stankovich is also a strong man. I was, however appalled at how badly we folded.
I will not throw bad comments at Raubenheimer, De Jongh, Adams, Hargreaves & Rose as they should never have been in that side in the first place. All that has happened now, is that possibly the confidence of these players will be dented further and they might not ever reach their Springbok potential. They were thrown in too early and humbled.
I would have expected more of Ngundane (although he had 0 opportunities), Meisiekind & Ruaan. We did have attacking ball during some second phase play, but sadly, we looked inept during attack. This is because these players were thrown together with reckless abandon. There was not 1 recognised combination on that park. Every player was an individual, and it showed.
Poor Poor Poor coaching staff decisions. All you have done is break the belief and confidence of some of the players.
Never in a million years should a Bok side have lost to Leicester like that, especially when the bulk of the Emerging Boks who played against the Lions be sitting in SA out of favour for whatever reason!
7 Nov 2009, 10:38 am
#162 Tacitus: Yes but with Deysel and Vermeulen to do the physical stuff. You have to admit our tight-loose improved dramatically when Deysel came on. Even when Danie went off for Hargreaves. Heinke, I thought was also physical in the tight loose.
7 Nov 2009, 10:38 am
I always thought that the point of being a Springbok supporter was supporting the team through thick and thin and hoping it does well, even if you don’t agree with the selections?
7 Nov 2009, 10:40 am
#170 WP Till I Die:
I agree a starting trio of Potgieter, Deysel, Vermeulen would have been far stronger than the **** we had last night.
7 Nov 2009, 10:40 am
**** Muir: “I don’t think I’ve ever seen (a South Africa pack) as bad as that, especially from a coaching perspective. We were given a bit of a lesson at the scrums.”
“Hats off to the Tigers. They were incredibly strong in that department so we’ve got to go back to the drawing board.”
7 Nov 2009, 10:41 am
#170 WP Till I Die:
What planet are you from! Ridiculous notion.
7 Nov 2009, 10:42 am
#168 BULLET: Agree with most of what you say, well thought out. But I thought Bekker was good. More physical than normal. Can you really blame him when you have Maku throwing in? Also Maku not a proven scrummager. Tiaan Liebenburg or even Strauss would have had a huge impact on this side. Add a decent loose trio to the mix and we would have won.
7 Nov 2009, 10:43 am
how is loftus rascist ?
7 Nov 2009, 10:43 am
#174 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
Can’t fire Chilli.
The BMF will moan that yet another black Chief Executive is being made a scapegoat!
7 Nov 2009, 10:43 am
#123 JKBridge: Yes, unequivocally. Don’t listen to the provincial bias of the Ratel Brussows of this world who are trying to talk up their “Mindless meat” as Tacitus so so elloquently put it.
When a team has the kind of momentum that the Tigers got from their Scrum last night it comes at you like wave upon wave crashing onto you, and all you can do is tackle, tackle, tackle and get up and tackle again. You are continuously on your heels and obviously the momentum they have means that your tackles are made on or behind the advantage line. It was because Pottie was the only loosie tackling that he could not get up to fetch as well. It is like swimming in a strong current in huge waves that dump you and as soon as you get your head above water the next one hits you. Should he have ignored the tackling and jogged along untill someone else made the tackle twenty meters further and then try to steal the ball? Doesn’t make sense does it, but according to you guys he would then have had a good game because he is fetching. In any case, as a 6 he is more in the mould of Schalk than Brussow, just like Steggies is more like Brussow.
If there was someone else helping him he might have been more effective by trying to get his hands on the ball like when he and Stegmann nullified Brussow in the CC final by making 20 turnovers to Brussows 9.
Do yourself and look at Rugby 365′s rating of the players. They obviously understand the dynamics of this type of game situation much better than the lightweights at Keo, who can only echo what they hear, irrespective of whether it is true or not. And unfortunately some of the bloggers here suffer the same affliction. I think they call it Provincialism.
Take the Bulls S14 game against the Highlanders- they were murdered in a similar game, but learnt from that and came back and won the S14.
Likewise, the all-conquering testboks vs Aus in the trinations, when the same thing happened to Brussow, and they came back and won.
A similar team to this suffered the same at the hands of the BIL’s, and Pottie didn’t plat then. Says it all.
As for Katman, he’s just disagreeing with with Tacitus because that is his nature.
No guys, give credit where credit is due. Pottie stood alone in the face of what threatened to be a fifty point margin in favour of the Tigers and took us in the end when he took over the captaincy where only a brainless deviation from structure by Ashley Johnson due to his inexperience cost us what would have been a vindicating win.
7 Nov 2009, 10:43 am
#171 Tacitus: For sure that would have been a huge improvement. Stegman deserves to be there instead of Pottie.
7 Nov 2009, 10:43 am
#171 Tacitus:
Agreed, it would have been stronger, with Francois Louw on the bench.
Personally, I would have picked the following side:
1. wian du Preez
2. Tiaan Liebenberg
3. Wicus Blaauw
4. Danie Rossouw
5. Andries Bekker
6. Dewaldt Potgieter
7. Jean Deysel
8. Duanne Vermeuelen
9. Sarel Pretorius
10. Peter Grant
11. Jongi Nokwe
12. Wynand Olivier
13. Juan de Jongh
14. Lionel Mapoe
15. Joe Pietersen
Maybe some provincial bias of mine showing through there, but that is a side I reckon could have done very well.
7 Nov 2009, 10:44 am
#175 klippies101:
Take it from where it comes.
7 Nov 2009, 10:45 am
#178 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
Personally, I’d go with Potgieter, Stegman, and Vermeulen
7 Nov 2009, 10:46 am
#162 Tacitus: well faubenheimer played well too against the b&i lions for the royal xv! Did you conviniently forget that? Goodness you’re a narrow-minded fossil…
7 Nov 2009, 10:48 am
You cant scrum….you will get caught out….
Boks cant scrum
Will get caught out….
Watch this space
Frogs can scrum
Hier kom groot kak.
Ratel ….live in your delusional world of J Smit at 3….Ruan at 10….
Sharks get on there moer again next super 14….like cheetahs moered them in semi….
Then blame kanko, Botes, etc…..you scared wallys dont want to see the obvious…..
Cowards man!
7 Nov 2009, 10:49 am
#182 Transformation:
And you’re most likely a merit-less gravy train rider, adding zero to the SA economy.
But back to the rugby. If Raubenheimer was ANY good, one of the Big 5 unions would have bought him long ago.
7 Nov 2009, 10:50 am
One thing’s for sure – the Springboks need a decent scrumming coach…
7 Nov 2009, 10:51 am
#177 catleya: You spew rugby myths like fact: “If there was someone else helping him he might have been more effective by trying to get his hands on the ball like when he and Stegmann nullified Brussow in the CC final by making 20 turnovers to Brussows 9.” Using this example is pathetic. For 1 Stegman made most of the steals and 2 FS were playing a quick running game and had most of the possesion, Bulls were defending a lot and kicking when they had the chance. Obviously you have forgotten a simple truth, you can’t steal the ball if you already have it!
“In any case, as a 6 he is more in the mould of Schalk than Brussow” Another myth spewed as though fact. Schalk at his best and even now is hugely physical, ask anybody who plays Schalk and they’ll say he hurts people. Pottie is nothing like Schalk, he hurts nobody and relies on his brains and linking skills. If anything Deysel is more in the Schalk mould.
Continue to rate Pottie over Deysel, Stegman, Vermuelen and Alberts. I don’t know how you can, but hey. Provincialism has nothing to do with it as the 4 I mention are all from seperate provinces and in fact Stegman also plays for the Bulls.
7 Nov 2009, 10:52 am
#184 Tacitus:
Ag nee man, Tacitus, daai aanmerking is benede jou.
7 Nov 2009, 10:55 am
#183 grant10: Ruan on the bench covering 9 and 10. What is wrong with that. He had a poor game, but I still think he is back-up to Morne. Come on? Who is a better 3 in SA at the moment, WP Nel? Uncapped 23 year-old? Come on?
7 Nov 2009, 10:55 am
#186 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
What I’ve picked up so far:
You have something against Dewald Potgieter. Maybe he is just a threat to your favourites, I don’t know.
You are a HUGE fan of Jean Deysel.
My view: Potgieter was a major reason why the Bulls did so well in the S14 and in the Currie Cup. His combination with Spies and Stegman is superb.
He has been great for the Emerging Boks, and is a massive prospect.
Deysel is a strong man, and a decent ball carrier. He hasn’t had the impact Potgieter has had so far in his career, but that may be due to injury. He is more of a work horse, but he does little to excite.
I would not play Potgieter in a weak pack. But if I had Spies and a good fetcher in a trio, together with a good tight five, Potgieter would be my choice as the other flank.
It’s all about combinations.
7 Nov 2009, 10:55 am
Dewalt Potgieter and Earl Rose the only players that played well last nite….Dewalt is not a fetcher anyway….Steggmann the next best ‘brussow’
But PDV seems hell bent on dropping Brussow sometime as well….so wtf then???
We still think we can just moer everybody….big wake up last nite i tell you.
Dewalt should be at 8….Brussow at 6 and Deysel at 7 vs frogs…..
Front row we in our moer anyway….too late there….Wiaan Du Preez and WP Nel…Buuys sitting at home…CJ and BJ …Faan Rautenbach unavailable….Beast and Smitty gonna have to come to the party….i shudder at the prospect.
Next year…make the tough calls…..
Maar so kan dit nie dornerse voortgaan nie!!
7 Nov 2009, 10:56 am
#187 WP Till I Die:
Wel, as jou logon naam “Transformation” is, spreek dit al klaar boekdele oor jou.
7 Nov 2009, 10:58 am
Gotta go.
Things to do on a Saturday.
7 Nov 2009, 10:58 am
#188 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Ruan does not want the 10 jersey….JL Potgieter would have put his body on the line….iJustrugby has told you 1000 times….Ruan is a fruitcake…soft in the head…doesent cut it at 10….
I would rather have a capable 23 year old rookie than a 3 that cant scrum for toffee….but wait boet…wait,
Chickens coming home to roost
7 Nov 2009, 11:01 am
#48 Bentoshi:
take off your severely tinted glasses and you will see that you are 100% wrong. everybody knows that an even slightly promising player of colour gets selected miles ahead of his white choms. transformation should never be forced into action like in this country. it should be allowed to happen as a natural process.
7 Nov 2009, 11:02 am
#189 Tacitus: Good post. Yes I do have something against Pottie. He is simply not good enough in anyone position to be a bok. At 6 Brussow, Stegman, Schalk. At 7 Smith, Schalk, Vermuelen, Deysel. At 8 Spies, Kanko, Alberts, Vermeuelen. He is a blue eyed boy. Quite simply he deserves his place about as much as chilliboy deserves to be the captain of this side.
I do rate Deysel as a 7. Not to start boks, where I think Vermeulen would be better, but to come off bench. Deysel is a strong ball carrier, makes huge hits in defense and ruck time and also steals more ball and slows it down then he is given credit for. He is perfect fot the European winter conditions.
7 Nov 2009, 11:04 am
#194 iamyourfather: So are you saying white superiority is not a myth and that apartheid was unecessary because it gave whites advantages they did not need???
7 Nov 2009, 11:04 am
#184 Tacitus: ha ha ha every black person to you is a “gravy train-rider contributing nothing to the economy”? Ha ha ha you belong over there by RT Tac.
7 Nov 2009, 11:06 am
98. catleya
First of all,you pick combinations and not individuals.
One man can be beaten but combinations that have played
together can make a plan.
So the front row should have been the Cheetahs front row.
The lock combination should have been the WP combination.
Last nights flanker trio would have done well behind behind
the above tight five.
Pienaar is not happy at flyhalf and I would looked around
for a working combination and I think Grant and Duvenhage
would have done a better job.
The centre combination shows promise, but the back trio
did not combine well ,Pietersen,Mapoe and Hougaard would
in my opinion have been a better combination.These players
are a combination of determination, strength and flair.
By the way I am a Lions supporter and in my opinion v.d
Merwe should have stayed at home. After a long lay off
due to injury he should not be expected to perform at his best.
I am not saying PDV is a bad coach but for sure his team
selections are woeful and he has to make up his mind whether
or not he wants to serve South African ruby or his political
masters.He cant satisfy both and as shown last night he missed
the boat by a mile.
7 Nov 2009, 11:07 am
#193 grant10: JL Potgieter on bench instead of Ruan????
WP Nel to start instead of John Smit????
Do you realise how ridiculous you sound?
A year ago Ruan was playing brilliantly in test matches, JLP was too bad to play for FS.
This year J Smits Springboks conquered everything, while you probably hadn’t even heard of WP Nel, who was battling to start for FS.
How clearly do you think things through?
7 Nov 2009, 11:09 am
OK..lets close thispage
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