PdV to blame for Leicester disgrace
7 Nov 2009
Peter de Villiers must take responsibility for his poor selections and the embarrassment that followed in Leicester on Friday.
It’s all good and well lauding De Villiers when his first-choice side steamroll opponents, but now when an opportunity presents itself to mould an inexperienced group, he and his fellow coaching staff looked out of their depth.
The Springbok ‘second-choice’ XV were annihilated by a club side without at least 16 of their regulars, also not helping their synergy. The Bok coaching staff will point to the lack of preparation time, but in that situation the common sense option is to pick combinations at provincial level. De Villiers ignored this, and the result was a disorganised showing in all facets that led to the South Africans being out-muscled.
While De Villiers stated this tour was about gauging his next best, his refusal to pick form players from the Currie Cup has now left him with more questions than answers.
This team were led out to be exposed by stupid selections and from numbers 1 to 22 there are few success stories from Welford Road.
De Villiers stated in the latest issue of SA Rugby magazine how his technical knowledge of the scrum is the best in the Bok camp. But if that was the case, he would’ve known before this match that Gurthro Steenkamp would’ve repeatedly unbound and taken his head out of the scrum, resulting in penalty after penalty. Instead of choosing Wian du Preez – who is now heading to Munster – and the rest of the Cheetahs front-row as a unit, they were all watching this debacle on TV.
That Chiliboy Ralepelle – the Bulls’ second-choice hooker – had the opportunity to lead his country after not being fit to take part in a Currie Cup final six days earlier is ludicrous. It wasn’t surprising he limped off after 20 minutes, and he should be on the next plane home. Jannie du Plessis’ days in the Bok set-up should also be numbered as he failed to produce any leadership or grunt required. How Heinke van der Merwe was suppose to perform after not playing in six months is a mystery, and one shudders at the thought of him having to play tighthead on this tour.
Danie Rossouw was a frustrated figure with the lack of leadership, and while he tried all night, it wasn’t enough. Andries Bekker also toiled throughout, but in a disorganised side, it was very difficult. That the Sharks’ fourth-choice lock Alistair Hargreaves came on to try and resurrect matters said it all. Even against 20-year-old rookies, Hargreaves was out of his depth and he would have benefited more from an Isaac Ross-course in bulking up over the summer.
Ashley Johnson and Jean Deysel were the standout loosies, but how Davon Raubenheimer was considered ahead of Duane Vermeulen, Francois Louw and Willem Alberts is beyond me.
Heini Adams, another who can’t start for his province, struggled behind a pack being shunted around. His tactical kicking was woeful, and Sarel Pretorius would’ve been a better option.
Ruan Pienaar did nothing to show he is anything close to an international flyhalf. Worst of all was his temperament, panicked decisions characterising his play. But what can you expect when the last time he played in the 10 jersey was on 25 July? De Villiers and Dick Muir’s obsession with versatility over specialists seems to be slowly but surely ruining what was a promising career.
Wynand Olivier, Juan de Jongh, Jongi Nokwe and Earl Rose all soldiered on with little quality ball, but Odwa Ndungane delivered a disinterested performance. Ndungane’s final minute knock-on capped off why Lionel Mapoe should have been in his place on tour.
The technical short-comings, especially at the breakdown, were disappointing, but what was even more worrying was the lack of commitment and desperation shown by some in a Bok jersey.
Victories over Ireland and France were the main aims of this tour, but just as important was judging the depth of South African rugby. De Villiers should now realise that the out-of-form third-tier players who weren’t good enough before, still aren’t good enough. What a waste of an opportunity to ignore those who deserved a chance to tour.
Leicester now have the Bok scalp as theirs. However, records won’t state it was a woeful Bok side, many of whom shouldn’t have been there. For that, De Villiers and his selectors must take the blame.
By Grant Ball
394 Comments
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7 Nov 2009, 11:09 am
Let me the first on teh next page
7 Nov 2009, 11:12 am
#201 Langenhoven: You did it! Any chance you can play prop? We need someone to deliver what they promise!
7 Nov 2009, 11:15 am
#202 scar: I weigh 90kg… to light mate…hooker maybe
7 Nov 2009, 11:16 am
#203 Langenhoven: we’ll they heavies (read: Guthro & Jannie) don’t deliver, so why not a different approach!
7 Nov 2009, 11:18 am
OK… gonna have some breakfast… til later and don’t slander while I am away
7 Nov 2009, 11:18 am
#199 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): ratel…you a wanker my boy….you only see what you want to see….Ruan is no 10…he doesent want to play there.
J Smit is a bloody useless tighthead…but you are so blinded by your pathetic sentimentality that you look the other way.
You are so 1 eyed it is pathetic…seriously havent got time for your kak today.
Keep on living in Cloud Cuckoo…..
I give up with ignoramuses like you….
Got a hangover and so the moer in that we allowed this scrumming disaster to now nail us….so i am outta here….
But plonker…wake up and smell the coffee……we have serious front row issues…and victory plastered over the obviuous cracks….stop being a blind little bat…ffs man!
7 Nov 2009, 11:20 am
Go poms and Wales….
And ffs PDV get on the telephone to CJ and BJ….
Enough ie enough!!!
Get that SCRUM SORTED!!
7 Nov 2009, 11:24 am
#184 Tacitus: if the people in charge of recruiting for the “big” provinces have the same narrow-minded & bigoted mentality as you then i don’t have to wonder why players like raubenheimer don’t get drafted into those teams!
7 Nov 2009, 11:26 am
#206 grant10: I always thought you blogged sense rather than insults, but hey, I guess eventually you show your true colours.
Players from overseas are not considered, for obvious reasons as most of our A boks would go straight over. So deal with reality.
Also to pick JlP and WP Nel over Ruan and Smit, surely this is madness in the international arena?
You’re niave to think any coach in the world would do that. I am sure you are hoping the bok scrum gets creamed and you are finaly vindicated, cause all your other mad rantings have been proven wrong. Personally I hope and believe the guys will stand up and deliver, proving their detractors wrong for the 5th time this season.
7 Nov 2009, 11:28 am
#208 Transformation: Come now dude, Raubenheimer was a terrible selection when you consider the loose forward talent. I won’t be suprised if he doesn’t get drafted for S14, SA has huge loosie talent.
7 Nov 2009, 11:28 am
#209 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Delusional you are….prefer to talk about the loose trios and judging Dewalt and Raubenheimer ?
Hoe the hell can a loosie play with the carnage of a scrum in turbo reverse….?
Wake up boet…please!
7 Nov 2009, 11:29 am
#210 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Dont judge Raubenheimer on 1 game….iys the scrum that farks everything up!!
7 Nov 2009, 11:34 am
Amen tell it like it is… a disgraceful performance.
7 Nov 2009, 11:36 am
#211 grant10: The scrum was terrible. Hookers who? Still think Vermuelen, Deysel, Stegman would hav ewon the tight loose
7 Nov 2009, 11:42 am
#122 catleya: Poor Henke hasn’t played rugby in six months…. how can any person with half a brain, ask him to come on as a replacement…
He is a very destructive lossehead, but after a knee injury, he should have proved his quality before being selected ahead of players that produced sterling performances in the CC
7 Nov 2009, 11:42 am
#186 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
Probably because they are in fact truths which you choose to see through your black and white lenses as myths because they don’t suit your agenda.
Fact is Pottie switched to 6 at number 99 for the sake of the team. why do you judge him as a 6? That is only another quiver in his bow. As is 8. None of the guys you mention as your preferences can bring 6, 7 and 8 to the table at the level that he can.
Take your darling Deysel- the ver first ball he carried he was tackled back two meters, and from there it was more of the sme, except for once where he bumped off a guy anf actually gained 3 meters, and another time when he made a few meters. So what does all his meat and bulk help? Pottie with his “brains and linking” will be my choice every time.
Why do you think PdV had Brussow and Pottie down as a combo for this match? Not because Brussow was dropped as everybody was squealing like pigs to the slaughter about, but because he wanted to see the two together because he believes they are the future as a pair. Unfortunately fate intervened and he had to make the call to pull Brussow because the test is more important tha this game. But I believe we will see them sooner rather than later, maybe even in the test with Pottie coming off the bench. With Spies injured and Danie R clearly jaded, and Andries back, and given the state of the scrums he will probably have to pick a 5/2 split on the bench, and be a little more inventive and pull a rabitt from the hat in Smitty if Bissie gets injured, allowing a bench which I reckon, after last night, will be:
Heinke,
Jannie duP
Andries Bekker
Danie Rossouw
Dewald Potgieter
Ruan Pienaar
Wynand Olivier
Dewald is absolutely essential, because we need his cover at 8 if Kanko battles behind a retreating scrum, God forbid. Truth is, if you thought last night was bad, imagine what the test will be like now that the Frogs know our Achilles heel.
7 Nov 2009, 11:47 am
#125 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): After this, you still pick Guthro, and J du P??? Guess I rest my case!!
#141 JKBridge: Because Potgieter plays for the Bulls, Taccie, hardly ever removes his blue shades lol!!
7 Nov 2009, 11:49 am
#210 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): hey ratel…the point i was trying to make to Tac was that he must stop making excuses for dewalt sub-par performance yesterday. That he has to selectively go & quote dewalt’s good performance against the b&i lions is pathetic…i was only remimding him that raubenheimer & makuena had good games too against the lions for the royal xv…
7 Nov 2009, 11:51 am
danie rossouw,potgieter,wynand olivier(numerous chances but still only a s14 player),chilly,steenkamp,potgieter,adamsshould make use of their return ticket immediately.deysel can also join them because he’s just a quota shark selection to keep their representation for the boks in double figures.
7 Nov 2009, 11:54 am
#216 catleya: Deysel not experienced, John Smit is our captain and must start inhis best position; hooker. He is not as good as Bismark, Kuhn, chillie in the loose but great scrummager (at hooker, not prop) and our best captain.
Deysel needs experience should be on tour purely for that reason. Looking at form though Free State loosies whipped Natal and overshadowed Bulls, is there space for Deysel. Potgieter/Stegman great combination. Kanko has had a kak season and shouldn’t be there. Play Schalk, Potgieter, Johnson as 8.
Ruan Pienaar is not a flyhalf yet. Either give him game time to develop at Provincial level or keep him at his preferred position, scrumhalf. Adams is over-rated. Franscois Hougaard is the best up coming scrumhalf in the country. I would play rickie before Adams. In Adams defence I think Fourie would have struggled behind that pack.
7 Nov 2009, 11:56 am
Ah yes. The old PdV should have, could have argument.
Whats new?
7 Nov 2009, 11:58 am
There was zero heart last night. The players are also to blame.
I’ve always been a huge Ruan fan but dam I think its time for him to go back to Currie Cup/Super 14 for a year and regain some form. He was rubbish last night!!!!
Rose was okay but is still never a Test 22 contender. Odwa was solid(ish) and Nokwe chased hard. BUT there was no one running that back 3. No one took charge. Zero leadership their.
Adams might have been behind a losing pack, but so was FH, who looked infinitly better than Adams when he came on.
Pure pure quota for last night: Chillyboy,Maku,Adams.
I like Adams, but lets be honest, he’s probs the 8th best 9 in SA.
My midweek bok team:
15 Terblanch
14 Mphoe
13 De Jongh
12 WO
11 Nokwe
10 Grant
9 FH
8 Danie
7 Potgieter
6 Deysel
5 Bekker
4 Muller
3,2,1 Cheethas front row.
7 Nov 2009, 12:01 pm
Deysel showed some good moments last night, but often lost the ball in contact. Johnson (despite not adding much at scrum time) was breaking the advantage line, showed great hands and was able to get the ball back when tackled.
my 10 cents worth …
7 Nov 2009, 12:03 pm
#218 Transformation: Nobody is saying John Smit should be dropped, but the warning signs have been posted months ago..
What we are saying is the second tier of players should be exposed to the Springbok culture, not mad hatter selections to appease politicians.
Run on 15 for the Boks with potential to be developed in ()
1. Wian (Heinke and Beast
2. Bismark (Strauss and Liebenberg)
3. Smit ( WP Nel and Harris)
4. Bakkies (Sykes or Anton van Zyl)
5. Vic (Bekkere, Muller or David de Villiers)
6. Brussow (Louw or Stegmann)
7. Smith (Burger/Deysel or Vermeulen)
8. Spies (Alberts, Kanko or Potgieter)
9. F du P (Pretorius, Hougaard)
10. Morne Steyn ( ???? serious lack of candidates)
11. Habana (Nokwe or Mvovo/vd Heever)
12. Olivier (Bosman, Grant, Doppies)
13. Jacque Fourie (De Jongh, Hollenbach)
14. JPP ( Mapoe, Basson)
15. Kirchner (Pieterson, Earl)
Surely these are the next best we have , but by 2011, a host of u 21 stars will be in contention. Guys like Patrick Lambie, Tiger bax, Wayne Stevens and some seriously talented props, locks and loosies!!
7 Nov 2009, 12:03 pm
#222 CenturionShark (aka LondonShark): Was going to ask if you were a Sharks fan when I read your teamsheet, but then noticed you are not shy about your allegiance!
7 Nov 2009, 12:04 pm
#215 Cheetah 4 Eva: I would have picked Cheetah 1,2,3 and would have loved to see Pottie and Brussow and Ashley together last night. But unfortunately we will have to wait to see.
7 Nov 2009, 12:05 pm
#224 Cheetah 4 Eva: well said
The curse of South African rugby has always the comment “serious lack of candidates” next to number10
7 Nov 2009, 12:06 pm
#226 catleya: Or Pottie, Stegman/Louw and Johnson
7 Nov 2009, 12:08 pm
A pathetic political squad will produce pathetic results !!!
7 Nov 2009, 12:10 pm
#227 scar: I think they should make Peter Grant the second choice 10 for the Bokke
7 Nov 2009, 12:14 pm
pick the stormers and cheetahs front-rows and loosies and most of our problems would be over but we had to indulge the currie cup champions in selecting 15 of their idiots,well at least the the majority of that 15.the least we say about the sharks and their supporters the better because these idiots had been deluding themselves all season.
7 Nov 2009, 12:15 pm
Well there was a reason that RL did not watch this match.
With that token captain who I predicted will only last 39 minutes and with a couple of other no name brands the result was a no brainer.
7 Nov 2009, 12:19 pm
Morning guys. It was interesting watching the match thread, last night and the level of hysteria coming from a number of bloggers. Sh*t, it looked like Jack the Ripper had been let loose in the girls res at varsity, the way some of the guys were carrying on.
This team was a mix of the backup players from our regular squad and potential candidates for after 2011 that have little S14 experience, to see whether they have the ability to perform on a bigger stage. As it happened, it was the Bok regulars who let us down badly not so much the youngsters.
Because we run a squad system, the coaches can’t just dump players on a wholesale basis during the season and, as I posted yesterday, I got the impression that this was a make or break for a number of regulars before PdeV starts to assemble his WC squad over the next 18 months. Players like Wian, WP, Vermeulen, Strauss etc. are already in his plans, which is why they were left behind. He took this last opportunity to see what may be available after 2011 to feed into the next squad as potential backups.
7 Nov 2009, 12:21 pm
#222 CenturionShark (aka LondonShark): Ruaan has been rubbish for quite somw time now.
7 Nov 2009, 12:21 pm
#231 Valkyrie: WPNel shoved both Beast and Guthro backwards WP Nel’s weight is 92 kgs a full 30kgs lighter than anyone he has scrummed own against. We need a proper scrum coach. The Cheethas fortunes were resurrected when Os started helping out. Not all that shines is Gold and Gary is a living example.
Forget about who scrums in the front, without proper coaching they wont mke it even if they weigh in at 150 kgs. And by teh way a prop needs a lock to push behind him.
7 Nov 2009, 12:26 pm
#212 grant10: Grant I think for the first time I have to disagree with you completely. Raubenheimer is average at best and shouldnt be ina abok jersey. I wanted to reserve judgement on him, but he was worse than poor last night. He didnt even try. And his early substitution by Deysel was testament to the fact that I wasnt the only one thinking that. He at the very least should have shown some pride in his first outing in a Bok jersey and gone down fighting tooth and nail. He didnt. Thats the diff between him and Ashley Johnson… Johnson tried his best and I have to commend him for that. I actually felt for the guy last night – he didnt deserve to go out there on his first outing and have to be part of such a shambles.
7 Nov 2009, 12:27 pm
#224 Cheetah 4 Eva: john smit? I didn’t even talk about john dude…
7 Nov 2009, 12:28 pm
#235 Objective 101: good points.any issues between os and pdv?
7 Nov 2009, 12:28 pm
#229 GP: Agreed, you can either have a transformation team or a winning team, but you will never have both
Saw Raubenheimer take some good photos of the match though
7 Nov 2009, 12:28 pm
#230 GP: Yep Agreed . He´s more stable then Ruaan at least. I´d rather have more average than disaster and last night Ruaan was disaster as he has been on many occasions.
7 Nov 2009, 12:30 pm
#235 Objective 101:
I think you should check out the Cheetahs website to see the weight of WP Nel.
WP Nell
Mass: 116kg
Height: 1.82m
7 Nov 2009, 12:31 pm
#236 Slumtown: Again, I concur
Ashley, Potgieter, Rossouw and Bekker played their part as individuals
The only time I saw Bandise was when he had to through in at a lineout
7 Nov 2009, 12:31 pm
#235 Objective 101: Do not believe the TV stats hehehehe!
7 Nov 2009, 12:32 pm
#243 JL1: I wish Sky or Supersport would weigh me?
7 Nov 2009, 12:33 pm
#240 Slumtown: I wont call Grant average. I would say he is more stable at flyhalf than Pienaar.
We cant blame Pienaar. He wants to play at 9, PDV keeps picking him at 10 to carry a quota 9 in the squad!!!
7 Nov 2009, 12:35 pm
#239 JL1: he will cherish those photos for a long time and will give thanks to pdv in all of his prayers before going to bed.
7 Nov 2009, 12:36 pm
Fortunately I didn’t see the game, but I suspect the real culprit is **** Muir. The lack of synergy and breakdown turnovers sound like Muir’s influence. I would like to congratulate with the Lions’ appointment of DOR.
However, the other thing we must consider is that our players never seem to take these fixtures seriously. We almost lost to Connacht in 2007, and second string sides always seem to lack commitment. The problem may be that the players already know they’re not going to make the first team, or, alternatively, lack cohesion because they are too individualistic. Either way it’s a problem the coaching staff must solve.
7 Nov 2009, 12:37 pm
#245 GP: I mean average as in not too flashy. He´s just a good all round player.
I´m agreeing with you
7 Nov 2009, 12:39 pm
johnson and bekker the only two in the pack that tried and nokwe,rose,de jongh in the backline.
7 Nov 2009, 12:42 pm
#225 scar:
Hey, not many sharks in that midweek team of mine (only 3 in fact)
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